Sonny Bill Williams, the best forward I’ve seen
Roar Guru By ScottWoodward.me, 4 Mar 2010 ScottWoodward.me is a Roar Guru
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- All Blacks, NRL, Rugby League, Rugby Union, SBW, Sonny Bill Williams
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Barbarians' Sonny Bill Williams of New Zealand, right, alludes being tackled by Wallabies' captain Stirling Mortlock (AP Photo/Rob Griffith)
Sonny Bill Williams is set to become the greatest modern day dual code forward to represent his native country. While that may sound impressive, the fact is that the honors list of is not that honorable. At least in size.
Since 1995, nearly 90 percent of the league to union converts who went on to play internationally for their country have been backs.
Brad Thorn, like the famous artist Ralph Hotare, was born in the southern New Zealand town Mosgiel, but curiously represented Australia in eight Rugby League tests (1997 to 98) and then went on to play 37 Tests for the All Blacks.
Quite amazing.
To find an Australian, we have to go back to the elegant Scott Gouley (1988), and then the tireless Ray Price (1974), both fundamentally different types but also light years from Sonny Bill Williams’ god given talent.
I never had the pleasure to see Dick Thornett play, but he represented Australia (1st RL Test v South Africa 20 Jul 1963 ) in both codes with distinction, as did Kevin Ryan (2nd RL Test v France 4 Jul 1964), who my Dad says was the toughest forward to ever play League.
Sonny Bill Williams has the talent and size to play in the All Black forward pack, but we have to go back more than a century to find someone who started his career in Rugby League and went on to represent his country in both codes.
We have to go back to Eric Watkins (1905), Massa Johnston (1905) and Ned Hughes (1907 RU & 1910 RL).
So if Sonny Bill Williams does pack down in an All Black jersey, he will be the first dual code forward to do so in 101 years. And if he decides that he wants to play for the Wallabies and the Kiwi coach plays him in the forwards, he will be the first to do so in twenty years.
Even though he only played 48 NRL games, I have no hesitation in naming Sonny Bill Williams the best forward I have ever seen. No one else could come close to doing what he did.
I can hear the screams already, reminding me of Arthur Beetson, Bob McCarthy, Ron Coote and Rod Reddy. And I would just say that they would not fetch as much as Sonny Bill Williams on a footy auction.
He could do everything they all could do and still be able to sprint as fast as Reg Gasnier.
If Sonny Bill Williams can overcome the injuries that have haunted him in France, then the chances of the All Blacks winning the World Cup will sky rocket.
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- All Blacks, NRL, Rugby League, Rugby Union, SBW, Sonny Bill Williams
March 4th 2010 @ 7:09am
True Tah said | March 4th 2010 @ 7:09am | Report comment
“Sonny Bill Williams has the talent and size to play in the All Black forward pack”
Scott he is playing in the centres for Toulon, and whilst I dont watch a great deal of Top 14 rugby, from what I’ve seen, I reckon there are plenty of better centres in French rugby.
I think its unfair to compare Thorn and Sonny Bill, Thorn actually signed for less money when he went to the Crusaders, and has established himself as possibly the finest dual code forward (along with a certain R.Price). SBW has achieved none of that.
March 4th 2010 @ 12:39pm
ScottWoodward.me said | March 4th 2010 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
True Tah,
I accept Thorn and Price have done it. That was not my point.
March 4th 2010 @ 7:26am
allblackfan said | March 4th 2010 @ 7:26am | Report comment
Apparently, SBW has been playing in the forwards of late.
I’ve seen SBW play a few games for Toulon (and the BaaBaas). He still has that league instinct of attacking one-on-one but the guy has potential, make no mistake. Provided he’s overcome his injury bogey, his physical defensive presence against a side like the Boks could prove useful. It depends on how fast he can make the adjustment.
Don’t forget: unlike Aussie league converts, SBW will have the chance to play in a strong domestic competition to help make the switch in the S14/15 off-season.
One of the problems Tahu faced when he crossed over was that he didn’t get enough game time before the S14; he was thrust too deep, too early, and his game/confidence never recovered. (I see a similiar fate happening to James O’Connor; the kid has been rushed into elite rugby too early!)
March 4th 2010 @ 7:36am
Wavell Wakefield said | March 4th 2010 @ 7:36am | Report comment
In the most two recent T14 games, Toulouse (20/02/10) and Montpellier (27/01/10), Williams played in the centres with Mafi Kefu.
March 4th 2010 @ 8:25am
katzilla said | March 4th 2010 @ 8:25am | Report comment
He was actually pretty good in that Toulouse game. Put in a couple of good tackles near the end to keep Toulouse pinned in their half. Although it appears he still needs some work on his passing skills if he ever intends to make it in the Centres. One handed throws just don’t cut it.
March 4th 2010 @ 9:06am
sam a said | March 4th 2010 @ 9:06am | Report comment
He has been finishing games for Toulon playing in the forwards.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/nzru-pictures-sonny-bill-all-in-black-and-rampaging-as-a-forward-20100225-p5yx.html?skin=text-only
March 4th 2010 @ 10:10pm
Wavell Wakefield said | March 4th 2010 @ 10:10pm | Report comment
In what matches has he finished games in the forwards, Sam?
March 8th 2010 @ 8:42am
sam a said | March 8th 2010 @ 8:42am | Report comment
I don’t know, Wavell. It isn’t shown on the box where I am, so I have to go from news articles like the link I posted above where it says “Although Williams’s two seasons of rugby union have been spent exclusively in the centres or on the wing, he has recently begun moving into the forwards during the latter stages of matches for Toulon, and that could be a role the All Blacks envisage for him.”
I’m sure you’d be happy to enlighten us all as to the accuracy or otherwise of that wuote.
March 4th 2010 @ 7:31am
Even looser said | March 4th 2010 @ 7:31am | Report comment
How did this article ever see the light of day?
March 4th 2010 @ 7:42am
Temba said | March 4th 2010 @ 7:42am | Report comment
Headline should read “SBW the most over hyped player in world rugby”
He should stick to boxing, it seems to suit his personality more then Rugby… I am as over him as I am Lara Bingle vs Fav saga
March 4th 2010 @ 9:17am
MarkR said | March 4th 2010 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Temba, very funny, I was just about to ask if he’s going to box if he doesn’t make the ABs ? Australia has a few over hyped boxers at the moment, Green & Mundine spring to mind, both good boxers but not deserving of the ‘greatest’ titles their fans bestow. Perhaps SBW could do well in that field, at least he can’t do worse than Hoppa !
March 4th 2010 @ 7:45am
katzilla said | March 4th 2010 @ 7:45am | Report comment
I like SBW Scott but I just can’t see him ever getting a run in the ABs. Unless something magical happens between now and 2011 it just isn’t a possibility.
The AB coaches have admitted to ‘Talking’ with him, although methinks that would be a NZRU ploy to get him home to play and get more bums on seats for an outer Auckland ANZC team. Auckland league fans would maybe step out to a game to see him play.
He won’t make it out of the ANZC, which is sad because he has talent with ball in hand and front on tackles.
But unfortunately a Union forward needs a few more specific skills to shine.
Look for the Warriors to be making contact after SBW represents Samoa in the Rugby Union World Cup.
March 4th 2010 @ 8:11am
ricardo said | March 4th 2010 @ 8:11am | Report comment
native country?..good ol sonny travels on a samoan passport..
March 4th 2010 @ 9:51am
Sam said | March 4th 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment
He was born in Auckland, but has Samoan heritage. He has both NZ and Samoan passports. I think travelling on a Samoan passport makes it easier for him to get a visa in France.
March 4th 2010 @ 11:34am
max power said | March 4th 2010 @ 11:34am | Report comment
I think holding a Samoan passport also qualifies him as a Pacific Islander in the French comp which means that he isn’t counted as an import player.
March 5th 2010 @ 12:39am
jeznez said | March 5th 2010 @ 12:39am | Report comment
spot on Max, he only picked up that Samoan passport when he quit league and did his runner.
March 5th 2010 @ 10:50pm
W-Lions said | March 5th 2010 @ 10:50pm | Report comment
He got his Samoan passsport from their prime Minister Sailele and King Tuiatua who are the chairman and president of Samoan rugby union.
March 4th 2010 @ 12:44pm
ScottWoodward.me said | March 4th 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
He was born in Auckland
March 4th 2010 @ 8:18am
The Oracle said | March 4th 2010 @ 8:18am | Report comment
I’d agree Scott, would be good to see SBW perform for the All Blacks as he often did for his league teams – wiht dominance. But to be fair the closest he’ll be getting to the AB’s is in the stands. The skill requirements for the two codes (in the forwards moreso than the backs) are more polar than may seem apparent.
Any talk of SBW coming back to NZ, and in particular Counties-Manukau (which was speculated in the Sunday papers) is purely that; speculation. CM have had no contact with SBW or his management, and any content in that regard has being released by SBW management on the tails of the ‘Tana is coming to counties’ rumours. Rumours which btw are spot on – stand by for an announcement next week.
In saying that dont expect to see Tana, despite his wishes, being in the RWC mix for the AB’s either…leaving a year out in 2006 is a long remembered display of poor loyalty.
March 4th 2010 @ 8:33am
katzilla said | March 4th 2010 @ 8:33am | Report comment
I think you’ll find people from the Lower half on the North Island have a different view on his retirement.
Hes still a legend, and he went on his own terms. Do you really think he would have played at the WC in 2007?
He was slowing by the day and younger faster centres were putting him to the sword.
He left a year out which gave Richie at least some time to settle into the Captains role, he also left when the ABs were probably at their strongest for many years. Going by the rugby played in early 2007 it didnt seem as if we missed him.
I agree that he wont be in the mix for 2011 but not because of Disloyalty, but because hes old and slow.
March 4th 2010 @ 9:46am
OldManEmu said | March 4th 2010 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Dear oh dear. Well, you are entitled to your opinion Scott.
March 4th 2010 @ 12:46pm
ScottWoodward.me said | March 4th 2010 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
OldManEmu,
Gee tanx
March 4th 2010 @ 9:48am
Skip said | March 4th 2010 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Ben Kennedy was by far the best forward to represent his country in both codes followed very closely by Ray Price.
March 4th 2010 @ 9:53am
Onceinawhile said | March 4th 2010 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Good call, I’m assuming he , Kennedy, played Aus schoolboys, did he have an interest in crossing back to rugby?
March 4th 2010 @ 10:22am
MyGeneration said | March 4th 2010 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Ray Price had lengths on Ben Kennedy, and I’m a huge BK fan (from his days with the Seags).
March 4th 2010 @ 12:51pm
ScottWoodward.me said | March 4th 2010 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Skip,
Ben Kennedy never played Test RU for Australia? He was a school boy rep.
But yes, he was a fab player.
March 4th 2010 @ 3:13pm
Skip said | March 4th 2010 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
SW,
Captained Aus U 21s. Thats close enough for me.
He did have an interest in coming back to RU when he left the Raiders and I beleive was in strong talks
with the Waratahs. The then CEO John Winstanley stuffed him around (alledgedly)and he was lost for good.
There were further approaches made from Waratahs and the Reds.
I even heard Bob Dwyer tried to get him to play for the Baa Baa;s when he had retired from Manly.
March 4th 2010 @ 9:54am
Dan Dresden said | March 4th 2010 @ 9:54am | Report comment
“we have to go back more than a century to find someone who started his career in Rugby League and went on to represent his country in both codes.We have to go back to Eric Watkins (1905), Massa Johnston (1905) and Ned Hughes (1907 RU & 1910 RL). ”
Huh? How could a rugby league player go to RU? How did Watkins and Johnston play league before league was begun in Australia and NZ?
March 4th 2010 @ 10:32am
MyGeneration said | March 4th 2010 @ 10:32am | Report comment
Another reason this article had me scratching my head. Ned Hughes is an interesting case, as he was allowed back to Union after being banned for playing League, and played for the All Blacks again at the age of 40 (oldest ever). None of these guys started as League players, though.
I’ll give this article some credit. I now know the answer to the question: “Who is the oldest All Black?”
March 4th 2010 @ 12:55pm
ScottWoodward.me said | March 4th 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
MG
Thanx, interesting.
March 4th 2010 @ 12:53pm
ScottWoodward.me said | March 4th 2010 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
Dan,
They played in 1910.
March 4th 2010 @ 1:45pm
Dan Dresden said | March 4th 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Wha you wrote inferred that these 3 guys started out as league players.