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Melbourne Victory and Wellington Phoenix players in action during their round 6 match, played at the Ethihad stadium in Melbourne, Sunday, Sept 13, 2009. AAP Image/Joe Castro.
The Wellington Phoenix are kicking and screaming for their very existence, and doing a damn good job of it. A sell-out crowd of 32,792 watched them defeat Newcastle 3-1 in extra-time to book their place in the preliminary final against Sydney FC for the right to face Melbourne Victory in the Grand Final.
It was an enthralling end-to-end display at the Westpac Stadium as Wellington’s dream run, and that of New Zealand football’s as a whole, continued with Paul Ifill’s extra-time strike and Eugene Dadi’s sealer killing-off the stubborn Jets.
The Jets took a surprising lead when Matt Thompson took advantage of some lacklustre defending, only for Tim Brown to even proceedings before halftime.
Ifill was once again instrumental in Wellington’s attacking dominance, finally hitting the back of the net in extra-time to the rapture of the locals.
The major semi-final, meanwhile, produced another intense match between Australia’s two biggest clubs with a 4-3 aggregate win to the Victory.
(Speaking of aggregates, if the A-League is going to continue with aggregated two-legged finals, it needs Fox Sports to get with the program and show the aggregate scores in their graphics).
The win gives the Victorian capital the honour of hosting the Grand Final for the third time in the last four seasons.
The intensity and excitement of the matches has revitalised the finals series, which had been questioned by some, including me, following the growth in stature and excitement of the Premiership race.
It was a great day for the A-League, with both matches living up to their billing.
But the story of the day was undoubtedly Wellington.
The political upheaval that has clouded the future of the club has helped fuel the ‘Nix’s recent momentum, and credit to all those at the club and in the stands who are putting such a strong case for their future.
And if the AFC hasn’t opened its eyes as yet to what New Zealand football could offer the Asian confederation, let alone how important they are to the A-League, then they need to wakeup.
It’s an important milestone for New Zealand football; the first time a team from across the Tasman has progressed so far.
New Zealand franchises have often been perceived as the weaklings of the A-League – allowed in the league as a parting gift to Oceania, helping to makeup the numbers.
But few could have predicted the all-encompassing growth, at international and club levels, of the sport in New Zealand following World Cup qualification, especially the form of the Phoenix, who many thought were destined for the wooden spoon following the loss of Shane Smeltz.
The country has been galvanised by the Phoenix, as evidenced by the 20,000 plus crowd Wellington pulled in Christchurch when Adelaide United visited in Round 25.
One can only imagine what a good performance at the World Cup (a win against Italy would be nice) would do for the Phoenix heading into next season, let alone championship success!
For the sake of the A-League, and commonsense, they need to be granted amnesty and a 10-year licence.
A-League fans, meanwhile, have said all year that a Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC Grand Final would be the best outcome in terms of the spectacle and crowds.
However, with the pair having battled out for the Premiership Plate (minor premiership, for the uninitiated) already, a trans-Tasman Grand Final wouldn’t be a bad option – the pride of New Zealand against Australia’s best.
It would be a wonderful touch in a year in which Australia and New Zealand will be heading to the World Cup finals together for the first time and the rivalry between the Socceroos and All Whites will be rejuvenated at the MCG farewell match in May.
And just think of the irony if Wellington were to go on and win the A-League championship and ‘qualify’ for the Asian Champions League. They would, unfortunately, be forced to hand that ACL spot to the Melbourne Victory, even if they beat the Victory in the Grand Final.
Unjust? Absolutely, but that’s what would happen thanks to the peculiarity of their unique situation. Even though the Phoenix would be allowed in by the AFC in 2011 (albeit as an Australian entry with the limit of the ‘three foreigners rule’), it couldn’t enter the ACL under its agreement with the FFA, according to SBS’s The World Game website.
If Wellington’s continued success helps strengthen their case for survival, then it’s even more reason to jump on the Phoenix bandwagon in the coming fortnight and watch the trans-Tasman rivalry grow at the domestic level.
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March 8th 2010 @ 12:30pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | March 8th 2010 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Talk of the Kiwis joining Asia is exceptionally premature. There are already some upset federations in the West following Australia’s entry and on the heels of Bahrain’s defeat goodwill towards the All Whites is probably at an all time low in West Asia.
Personally I think the logic for NZ joining Asia is similar to that which preceded Australia’s move and hence a good thing all round.
For me, I love having the Kiwis in the A-League. Long may it continue.
March 8th 2010 @ 12:32pm
MV Dave said | March 8th 2010 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Ben
Were you able to watch the A League finals yesterday on TV?
March 8th 2010 @ 12:58pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | March 8th 2010 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
It is possible to catch the football but only on the internet, and only then if you can get a good connection. Yesterday, sadly, I was traveling from the coastal province of Kep back to Phnom Penh so only caught the first half of the Melbourne-Sydney game and missed the Welly-Jets match altogether. I had to leave around the 37 minute mark for I had a far more serious football event to attend, the final of the Samdech Hun Sen Cup at the Olympic stadium. Phnom Penh Crown were favourites however lost 2-3 to the Ministry of National Defense in a close fought encounter. Truly, football at its finest.
March 8th 2010 @ 4:00pm
James said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
But surely the AFC can see the huge crowds and interest in New Zealand and take advantage of that – another powerhouse for the confederation.
March 8th 2010 @ 4:14pm
Ricky J said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
New Zealand needs to leave Oceania to do that, and Oceania wants to retain its autonomy at present.
FIFA needs to approve the move as well.
Highliy unlikely.
March 8th 2010 @ 2:27pm
Midfielder said | March 8th 2010 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Worth a look
March 8th 2010 @ 4:12pm
allblackfan said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
The crowd figures are a little artificial.
The Phoeniz are the feel-good story of NZ sport at the monent but that’s a short-term thing at the moment. Heck even I’m on fire with Phonenix fire at the moment.
Will I still be on fire form them when the new A league season starts? Probably not. Especially with the imminent approach of the RWC.
There will be only one sport in NZ next year — and it won’t be the round ball game!
March 8th 2010 @ 4:16pm
Ricky J said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
So you’er saying they’re the “it” thing rather than a long-term thing?
March 8th 2010 @ 4:26pm
MV Dave said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
How are the crowd figures artificial? Weren’t there 33,000 at the game? Sounds like a little bit of sour grapes ABF…not sure of the reason for your post on this football thread? Like saying the new team in Melbourne (for Rugby) will have an artificial supporter base cos there aint too many Ruggers fans here. Does the fact that the WP have done so well threaten you and your game that much?
March 8th 2010 @ 4:36pm
Midfielder said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
Dave
AB has a point … the Nix crowds will be back around the 8 to 12 K mark next season… but it shows make the finals and they will come…
March 8th 2010 @ 4:38pm
James said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
I disagree. The Kiwi sporting market is less cluttered than the Aussie one, so I think the Nix won’t suffer the diip that A-League teams suffer.
March 8th 2010 @ 4:53pm
Marshall said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
Less cricket in the summer I’m guessing so less opposition
March 8th 2010 @ 6:21pm
James said | March 8th 2010 @ 6:21pm | Report comment
And doesn’t their summer of cricket happen now, after ours?
March 8th 2010 @ 4:48pm
MV Dave said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
What it shows…if that there is a decent game of football on then plenty of people will be interested and pay to watch…perceptions are very important. No doubt the WP and AWs are flavour of the year but is that because the Rugby teams are crap? Maybe its because the football on offer was deemed to be pretty good and marketed that way…so the opportunity is there for the football folk in NZ to keep it going. Backhanded compliments by a Rugby blogger just shows how well WP have done.
BTW this isnt meant to start a code war but just to provide a football response to the ABF post.
March 8th 2010 @ 8:42pm
ohtani's jacket said | March 8th 2010 @ 8:42pm | Report comment
It depends on whether the Phoenix are any good next year or whether they crap out like the Warriors always do. Kiwis like sports where they’re underdogs against the Aussies. It’s a different dynamic from rugby where we’re expected to win and only get passionate when we lose, and the reason why the Chappell/Hadlee series is such big news at the moment.
March 8th 2010 @ 9:03pm
AA said | March 8th 2010 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
That cricket series is dumb. Mitchell Johnson is a joke upon hinself.
March 8th 2010 @ 10:02pm
ohtani's jacket said | March 8th 2010 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
It’s still a big deal in NZ, though.
March 8th 2010 @ 4:33pm
Midfielder said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
AB
RU will always be King in NZ … everyones knows that … but from a very humble beginging and lots of pressure the Nix may be kicked out… they are getting some media… be kind let them have it…
They had a yellow out in Wellie yesterday … lets hope the All Chokers live up to their potential as well.. and finally deliver the holy grail …
But let the Nix’s have their day they have earned it …..
March 8th 2010 @ 6:53pm
Jimmy said | March 8th 2010 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
To be chokers the ABs would have to have been favourites for every world cup which they haven’t been, so I find it strange that people like you keep calling them chokers.
March 9th 2010 @ 9:17am
Midfielder said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:17am | Report comment
There there Jimmy … my simple point to AB was let it be … the Nix have over come a lot and it’s their turn.. that RU is not the king of the codes ion NZ is not in question..
As for the All Chokers … I hope you guys do well in the WC and come second to Australia… HHHHmmmmm let me see five mins to go . AC’s up by 13 points… AC’s drop the ball on their line and we score undr the post … AC’s up by by 6 points… from the kick off a scrum is formed Australia win the scrum… score in the corner… it is converted Australia up by 1… from the kick off Australia score a length of the field try up the black dot … convert… Australia by 8 points… ARRRR wakes up now stops one handed typing …
Go Nix
March 9th 2010 @ 9:28am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Midfielder I think if you read some of the threads you will find Jimmy is actually Australian and a Reds supporter
March 8th 2010 @ 4:35pm
Midfielder said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
On the topic about a great rivalry … a few years awy IMO …
March 8th 2010 @ 4:52pm
AA said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
MF Australia has rivalries with Japan, Uruguay, Iran and a few other nations now. We do we always have to worry about New Zealand?
Boring rivalry football (or “soccer” if you like) wise. Nothing in in for Australia.
March 8th 2010 @ 5:24pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | March 8th 2010 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
Part of it is due to the history of the Oceania qualifiers where it almost always came down to the New Zealand v Australia clash.
March 8th 2010 @ 6:54pm
Jimmy said | March 8th 2010 @ 6:54pm | Report comment
Seriously AA your loathing for New Zealand is getting really boring get over yourself you give the rest of us a bad name
March 8th 2010 @ 8:40pm
AA said | March 8th 2010 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
I wil not be silenced on this matter Jimmy, but you or anyone else with a keyboard.
Just because others like what’s happening over theer doesn’t mean I have to agree. As said earlier, the fathers of reform to the Australian game didn’t have New Zealand footbal reform at the top of their agenda.
NZ has every right to make football a popular sport there, but from this angle, it seems that their success has been largely based on tapping into the current Australian system. That’s where my main concerns are really. If New Zealand had made reforms themselves then good on them, until then, they are spongers off the Australian system. (I could say they do that for a lot of other things but I’ll shut it at that point).
I will not be silenced.
March 8th 2010 @ 9:08pm
moston said | March 8th 2010 @ 9:08pm | Report comment
“I will not be silenced on this matter Jimmy, BY you or anyone else with a keyboard” you were meant to say there buddy.
March 9th 2010 @ 5:35am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 5:35am | Report comment
You are kidding aren’t you champ.
The Phoenixs success is hardly all down to Australia, while it has played a part the biggest driving factor is their fans have got in behind and supported this team, the Nix have gelled nicely this year and gone on to achieve good things. But that doesn’t fit your arrogant argument so you keep choosing to ignore it. Funny how your own countrymen are sick of your pathetic posts.
By the way still waiting on that dirt you have AA
March 8th 2010 @ 4:35pm
Football Person 2 said | March 8th 2010 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
… all black fan tho i agree in part with your comment the name is a give away
March 8th 2010 @ 5:29pm
katzilla said | March 8th 2010 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
Hey Im jumping on the Bandwagon too.
Its awesome that the Phoenix are doing all they can to carve out their little niche of the NZ sporting psyche.
There has definately been an Apathy for all things rugby over the last few years and the time is ripe for another sport to take that little bit of a foothold in rugby land. I thought that after the Kiwis RL world cup win, it might be league.
But I guess not, Graham Lowe was right in saying that rugby is on the wane but what he was wrong about was which sport was taking that little chunk for themselves. It isnt rugby league.
Overall what Kiwis like more then Rugby is winners. Once the winning stops so will the support sadly
That includes myself. When the ABs lose people hate them. Any other team just gets forgotten.
But we’ll cross that bridge when it comes. Come on NIX!
March 8th 2010 @ 7:09pm
allblackfan said | March 8th 2010 @ 7:09pm | Report comment
Katzilla, the reason Kiwis hate the ABs losing is that they care so much about them. Kiwis have high expectations every the ABs run out onto the field, which was created over many generations. If any other NZ team was able to achieve that same feat, they would also be subject to that same pressure.
March 8th 2010 @ 8:56pm
katzilla said | March 8th 2010 @ 8:56pm | Report comment
Very much a chicken or the egg scenario there ABfan.
Has NZ rugby been so successful because of the pressure and expectations of the public?
Or do the NZ public place so much pressure on them because of its success?
Of course what you say is correct that any other team would be subject to the same pressure should they build the same type of legacy.
What i was saying is that should they not maintain the standards they’ve now set for themselves (much like the warriors following that one GF appearance) they will run the risk of becoming the forgotten child of NZ sport.
March 8th 2010 @ 6:58pm
Katipo said | March 8th 2010 @ 6:58pm | Report comment
Go the ‘Nux!
March 8th 2010 @ 7:06pm
allblackfan said | March 8th 2010 @ 7:06pm | Report comment
The reason I came onto this thread is to add my 2c worth to some inaccuracies here.
The Phoenix gets a couple of good crowds (20,000 here, 33,000 there), more than a few of you are ready to declare NZ a soccer nation!
MV Dave, I said the WP’s crowds are a little artificial because of the feel good factor. The Phoenix’s fan base is a great deal bigger at the moment due to national pride. Make no mistake — I DO NOT begrudge them their moment in the sun; I cheer them on. GO THE NIX!! (I am a former soccer player after all)
But they are getting a lot of people into watch them that normally they wouldn’t. (How many of those fans at the stadium were wearing the yellow Wellington Hurricanes rugby jersey? Quite a few from what I saw)
One reason that the Phoenix (and the NZ cricket team) are getting fans in is that they are winning, I don’t deny that.
But turn your thoughts to next year.
NZ is a small market. It’s “uncluttered” simply because it’s not big enough to run a diverse and professional sporting scene like Australia does. I suspect it cannot support more than one fulltime winter semi-professional league (rugby’s ANPC).
Then add the RWC to the mix and the chance for the ABs to get the monkey of their back.
I say good on the Nix (and Black Caps, and AWs) for shining now because next year the NZ sporting scene (especially around June-October) will be All Black!
I would compare NZ’s passion for rugby right now like a tsunami — the water is pulling back and other codes are reaping the benefits. BUT the water WILL return and in force. Then it will subside.
SO GO THE PHOENIX!! AND THE ALL WHITES!!
kai mate kai mate!!
March 8th 2010 @ 7:15pm
MV Dave said | March 8th 2010 @ 7:15pm | Report comment
Thanks for the reply but…l havent seen anyone declare or even suggest NZ is a football nation so you can relax a little. Football fans can quite rightly bask in the performances and subsequent increased interest in the WP and AWs. Is it just a passing phase? Only time will tell but l would expect the WP support to be bigger next season…who knows they may even host a GF next season!
BTW thanks for clearing up the bit about RWC…l thought you meant Real World Cup which of course is in June this year
March 9th 2010 @ 5:38am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 5:38am | Report comment
The phoenix are riding a wave right now and AB fan and Katzilla aren’t too far off in what they ares trying to say here,
If the standard drops next year you can guarantee that the crowd numbers will drop, Kiwis generally don’t support teams who asren’t doing so well. I for one hope they continue with the momentum that they have but like I said I wouldn’t be surprised if they slip
March 8th 2010 @ 9:03pm
katzilla said | March 8th 2010 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
‘kai mate kai mate!!’
Mispelling bro, what you’ve written directly translates ‘Food Dead, Food Dead’
Maybe a pointer to the dietary preferences of my ancestors?
Unless your using a Greek/Maori fusion where Kai means ‘And’ i think in Greek. So ‘And Death!’ Hmm could work.
nevermind your enthusiasm is noted and appreciated in its use at the end of your posting.
By the way im not having a go, as a Maori I appreciate the use of the Maori Language from non-Maori NZers. That was the intention of those who pushed for it and it helps our language to survive.
So Kia Kaha, Ka mau te wehi
March 8th 2010 @ 8:27pm
Betty B said | March 8th 2010 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
not sure what all the xcitements about. It’s good to see Phoenix go well but I’d much prefer to see Roar, Fury and GCFC grow than a one-country club grow richer. Wouldn’t it be better for NZ football to have several teams of NZ players in its own league? I can’t see what playing a bunch of imports in Aust competition is doing for NZ footballers, other than appealing to the fans. Why not play a separate competition against Aust – winter’s available, 4-5 teams each.
I doubt there’ll be too many A-league players get a run at WC (at least for Aust, maybe a couple), and I also see FFA is trying to build bridges in SE Asia with Indonesia, apart from its commitment to Asian football. This whole issue with NZ playing in Asia confederation needs to be sorted quickly, but I would expect FFA to look after A first, before NZ.
March 8th 2010 @ 8:43pm
Simon Smith said | March 8th 2010 @ 8:43pm | Report comment
Well said Bettty. But I doubt New Zeiland would be admitted into Asia anytime soon. That’s their problem to work out – Oceania won;t let them leave in all honesty. But as you said, wouldn’t it be better for NZ football to have several teams of NZ players in its own league? That is a great idea.
March 8th 2010 @ 8:47pm
Punter said | March 8th 2010 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
Very simple New Zealand football is broke, there is little money in football in NZ.
March 8th 2010 @ 9:31pm
Betty B said | March 8th 2010 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
but that’s a NZFA issue surely, not FFA – and Phoenix seem to have heaps
March 9th 2010 @ 5:40am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 5:40am | Report comment
Yeah it’s broke but it’s just handed over 1.8 million to the FFA so about time the FFA recognised that if it wasn’t the Phoenix they would be doing some serious budget talks come end of season.
The Phoenix are a great earner for the FFA it pays not to forget that
March 9th 2010 @ 5:51am
AA said | March 9th 2010 @ 5:51am | Report comment
My gawd, they get 2 home finals and think the world owes them a favour.
Can it Ora, just can it. The FFA or the AFC can cut this team loose at any time.
2 home finals doesn’t make a football case complete.
It’s the first time an NZ-based team has made the finals, and this mob carry on as if they’ve won the war.
March 9th 2010 @ 8:49am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
God AA you talk some utter bs, did I say the world owes them a favour What I am saying to you AA is that the Phoenix have brought in a hell of a lot of money for the FFA and they know it. If it hadn’t been for the phoenix this year making the finals you could be just about be assured the Fury would have been cut, but thankfully for some great gate takings the FFA shouldn’t have to resort to such drastic measures as the money from both finals games as well as that of Melbourne and Sydney have pushed their coffers up and given them a little more to work with.
You are such a disgruntled and pathetic whiner who really does Australian sporting fans no justice, you say you have dirt but continue to fail to stump up with it. You have a deeply embedded hatred of all things kiwi. It seems AA you are the only person on this forum who believes that the Phoenix are bad for the A-League however you give nothing to back up your argument except we shouldn’t help them out. Are you that scared that a little country of 4million people will one day knock Australia from its soccer super power(imaginary) status?
March 9th 2010 @ 9:31am
Occasionalfootballfan said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:31am | Report comment
If it wasn’t Wellington it would be someone else, not taking anything away from the Pheonix, but don’t know about making claims infering they are saving the entire A-League, I reckon you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself.
March 9th 2010 @ 11:15am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 11:15am | Report comment
So explain to us the pathetic crowds the other finals attracted then Occasionalfootball fan, seriously I would like to know, the Phoenix have a nation of 4 million people behind them no other team in the A league can lay claim to that. The Phoenix get people through the gates it seems with ease yet other teams are dragging the chain can you explain this?
The Victory and Sydney aside what have the rest brought to the table this year in gate takings.
The only one getting ahead of themselves here are those who are in denial and cannot accept that the Phoenix this year have been a huge money spinner for the A-League and not only this but their on field results demand that they be granted a licence extension
March 9th 2010 @ 9:25am
Sam said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Terry Serepisos states he loses about a million dollars a year because of the Phoenix, so don’t know where you got the idea they had lots of money.
March 9th 2010 @ 9:32am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Did I say they had lots of money?
What I said sam was that the FFA is getting 1.8 million from the Phoenixs gate takings alone in the two finals they have hosted, who else is coming up with that money come finals.
read the post and stop trying to turn this into something it wasn’t. If the Phoenix or any club for that matter were able to share the takings I doubt very much that we would have clubs in such precarious states as we do now.
March 9th 2010 @ 9:40am
Sam said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:40am | Report comment
I was replying to Betty B.
March 9th 2010 @ 9:41am
Ora said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:41am | Report comment
My bad sorry there Sam
March 8th 2010 @ 9:36pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | March 8th 2010 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
It would be wonderful indeed, Betty, if NZ could have its own professional league. They can’t. Even Australia with 5 times the population has its issues creating a viable competition at a standard that will encourage middling standard players to stay. Herein lies the quandary for NZ football.
March 9th 2010 @ 12:17pm
Republican said | March 9th 2010 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
I support what AA is saying and there in lies the ongoing Aust NZ conflict.
We certainly don’t need another jingoistic Trans Tasman fixture that tends to benefit NZ sport in the main anyway.
NZ rely’s heavily on Australia in ALL sport by tapping into it’s domestic national Leagues, resources etc, with Union the exception and this is often at the expense of local Aust demographics.
I believe NZ presents as a huge contradiction in terms in this respect, because on one hand it will impulsively insist it has cred enough to be taken more sedriously, in this case based on one good season by a soccer team that has some local content i.e. also reliant on some Soccerroo content, while on the other, when challenged to go it alone, buttering up Australia due to it’s inherent depedancy on this country.
March 9th 2010 @ 1:36pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | March 9th 2010 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
It’s not a regular fixture, Republican, it’s a one off that may occur if Wellington win and will only reoccur in those instances where Welly make the final. Adrian is saying that the upcoming friendly with the Kiwis and the excitement qualification for South Africa has brought adds spice to a rivalry that was born in decades of clashes in Oceania at club and country level. Just relax and enjoy the football.
March 9th 2010 @ 1:45pm
Hammer said | March 9th 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
“I support what AA is saying ..” .. wow now there’s a surprise – didn’t see that coming …
interesting though how you mention the Phoenix are “reliant on some Soccerroo content” … really ? or has the form of the Phoenix pushed Durante into rep honours and brought McKain back in from the cold … but that really doesn’t fit into that narrow minded, jingoistic line you like pushing
March 9th 2010 @ 1:56pm
Jimmy said | March 9th 2010 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Republican, I can’t believe you call yourself Australian because you make me ashamed.
The most amazing thing here in all this even if you got your way the Kiwis would still be in the A-League the NRL etc and reason being?
Because we need them!
Our local scouts are seemingly forever in NZ looking for talent because we just aren’t producing it here, take their team away you say what next do you want Kiwis banned from playing altogether?
Also I’ll have you know the Kiwis are 50/50 in the ANZ netball too it simply is untrue that we are supporting them in every sport. Your scaremongering along with AA is really boring. You are totally out of line using this forum as a place to push your intolerant agendas.
I for one a proud Queenslander living in Melbourne see no problem having the Kiwis in the A-League nor do I see it as a problem them participating in the NRL, if anything they have helped raise the bar and give credibility to the tournaments. I do see the Breakers were / are one of the most financially sound clubs in the ANBL also and bring much needed talent into the competition. I recall NZ finished 4th and the world basketball championships a few years back without any help from Australia, Actually I don’t think we have ever finished that high ever in a Basketball WC.
I think it’s time you started looking at the bigger picture because as we are helping NZ they are also helping us
March 9th 2010 @ 2:33pm
AA said | March 9th 2010 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
I’ll rest my case after reading Jimmy’s comment! Jimmy, football is a WORLD GAME, there’s talent the WORLD OVER. That comment is more insular than anything I’ve seen on here. Too many people see the Australia-New Zealand rivalry from a rugby specturm. Football is global, give me Honduras or Nigeria anytime over New Zealand.
Republican, our views may not be popular, but we sure as hell will state what we think is right here.
Ora has pounded on about how the Nix have brought in gate takings. He conveniently forgets that clubs like Melbourne have pulled in several gates over 50,000 at their stadium during finals’s series before. Perth was pulling 42,000, and that was in the old NSL.
I see no benefit in developing the sport outside these boundaries. Australia had to rebuild from the ground up, so I see no reason to pass on these benefits to New Zealand. That’s not Kiwi-Hating (as Ora puts it) that’s just my belief. Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, are we helping these guys out as much as we are helping NZ?
Ora, I have got a bit of dirt on the Aust vs NZ game but I’ll need some way to get it to you. Up to you.
March 9th 2010 @ 3:24pm
katzilla said | March 9th 2010 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
‘Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, are we helping these guys out as much as we are helping NZ?’
Of course your not helping those guys. You know why? Theres no money in it for the FFA. And therein lies the contradiction to all your statements. The FFA want money and new markets, NZ is that market.
Therefore the arrangement is to benefit both parties.
The fact you say that Jimmys comments are Insular is both Ironical and Moronical.
In my opinion he holds more of a worldly view then you could ever imagine outside your own little make believe football super power backyard.
March 9th 2010 @ 9:39pm
AA said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:39pm | Report comment
As I have said repeatedly on here, the money issue goes against FIFA’s direct edict of ‘being for the good of the game’.
If the case for Phoenix is based on money then we’re going against FIFA’s own basic edict.
No-one (and I mean no-one) on here has addressed that for me to date.
Anyhow, the Phoenix sideshow is over. No more home games there until next season (and post World Cup as well). Then we can talk then.
March 10th 2010 @ 9:04am
Hammer said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
“If the case for Phoenix is based on money then we’re going against FIFA’s own basic edict.”
… so all the other leagues around the world are merely non profit organisations are they ? FFS that the dumbest comment out of you yet – and that’s saying something
March 9th 2010 @ 3:39pm
KR said | March 9th 2010 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
AA said: Australia had to rebuild from the ground up, so I see no reason to pass on these benefits to New Zealand.
Apparently you needed NZ teams though, else why would you have them? Because they looked pretty? Why are we passing the benefit of having a team in the A-league to you?
AA said: Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, are we helping these guys out as much as we are helping NZ?
You’ll find you are helping yourselves more, but why pick and choose? As you say, it’s a world game. Are you saying that strengthening said world game is bad?
How this for a dream? You can laugh afterwards. Bring the Oceanian teams in to the A-League to build a truly awesome competition, with matches between said teams picking Oceania’s CC representative and none to be available for ACL.
AA Said: Too many people see the Australia-New Zealand rivalry from a rugby specturm.
It’s good to play you once in a while but the prospect of regular matches bores me to tears. Doesn’t help us either.
AA, what I see is Aussie domestic football being boosted by the Phoenix. Hopefully NZFC can ride the media coattails, reverse the normal trend, and strengthen NZ domestically. At the moment Aussie gets the vast majority of benefits. Another team, more Aussie players playing, more quality overseas imports, more money, more exposure. NZ gets a professional team promoting the game (mostly made up from imports if you count Aussies), and a boost to the local economy. No youth team. No reserve team. No avenue to Champions Cup through Oceania and currently none through Asia.
The advantages are all yours, buddy boy, and yet you complain.
March 10th 2010 @ 8:49am
Ora said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
AA you talk so much F@rking BS it’s laughable, dish up the dirt or shut up it really is that simple.
Also how much do you actually read before you start banging away at your keyboard, you have selective sight and only take out what you want and then twist and turn things to suit your ridiculous pathetic rant.
March 9th 2010 @ 2:56pm
KR said | March 9th 2010 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
Australian sport benefits by increased exposure for sponsors, PayTV revenue, stable team headcount, and increased player catchment, among other things. The population of NZ is about the population of Sydney and there are about as many NZers living in Aussie as the population of Newcastle. Do businesses ignore local markets? We’re pretty local, even if we’re not Australian… yet.
Now, you did say, “NZ rely’s heavily on Australia in ALL sport by tapping into it’s domestic national Leagues, resources etc…”
I find that interesting because, on the whole, I see it the other way around. The trade-off for a professional avenue is the erosion of NZ domestic sport in return for propping up Australian domestic sport. And, unfortunately, we age in an age where tradition is trumped by the prospect of ‘bigger and better’, especially when business is involved. But, when in Rome…
NZ Netball doesn’t rely on Australia (and I thought BOTH countries wanted to emulate ‘Super’ rugby).
I’ll give you the Breakers, but I still think the NBL needs them.
Cricket? Have you seen our domestic standard? If you’re mysteriously propping us up you’re doing a crap job.
League? The Warriors weakened the importance of NZ’s domestic game and any increase in playing numbers helps other NRL teams. The volume of Kiwis plugging the gap in talent in Australia from first grade on down is staggering. The Kiwis don’t need the Warriors anymore, but the NRL certainly needs Kiwis.
The ‘weakening’ argument can be used for ‘Super’ rugby v provincial rugby in NZ, and Aussie Super teams seem to need foreigners now, too.
The Phoenix stepped up when Australian football needed a team. The A-League’s dearth of talent will be exposed further as it expands. Where are your playing numbers going to come from and how will the teams be funded?
Even the AFL has set up shop here to provide bods for the future. What do they know that you don’t and, IMO, who is using who? This discussion is more complicated than just AUS is AUS, NZ is NZ, and never the twain shall meet.
March 9th 2010 @ 9:10pm
Betty B said | March 9th 2010 @ 9:10pm | Report comment
I think you’ve lost it a bit here KR. National competitions certainly weaken their predecessors, in Aust just as much as in NZ – QLD and NSW rugby leagues are classic examples, not to mention rugby union where it’s much worse, but we’re surviving ok and much better off longer term.
But I can’t agree (or let you get away with) the call that NZ is propping up Aust sport. I saw a similar call recently that NZ was also proppping up the Aust economy!!
I do think some of you guys over there need time out to reconsider these rather brash and unfounded calls.
I don’t see too many gaps in Aust rugby league talent. It’s nice to have kiwis around, and some are very talented, but they’re outnumbered ten or twenty to one. Cricket – well, I think in a couple of years there’ll be a regional T20 competition. Do you guys use our cricket academy? Sth Africa does, you should. Rugby – you guys rule supreme and we don’t have enough talent for the existing S14 teams let alone another one. AFL – they’ll recruit anyone they can, but I doubt there’ll ever be too many kiwis make it.
As for the A league – you ask the right questions but NZ is not the answer. It’s played by more kids in Aust schools than any other sport and given more exposure (through world cup and asia cup and other appearances) I’m pretty sure we’ll find the answers. It will never be an EPL, but it’s taken giant strides already, give it time, with or without the Phoenix.
March 10th 2010 @ 4:03am
KR said | March 10th 2010 @ 4:03am | Report comment
Context, Betty. ‘Propping up’ was an imprecise comment, I admit, but the theme remains. I mentioned sports where we participate in a domestic or trans-Tasman competition, and it seems to me that the winner is Australia.
Australia is great sporting nation but you have a crowded market, particularly in the football codes. Unless codes sacrifice themselves for another you do not have the numbers to sustain the growth each code seems to want. I’m thinking longterm (like the AFL). You know… when I’m in a nursing home waiting for my sedatives because ranting pushed my blood pressure up.
Football is the dominant junior sport in NZ, too. The problem we have is the problem you have, only less so. They don’t stay playing when they grow up. They stop or move to other codes.
The A-League won’t be able to continue buying quality imports in a competition of modest size. They need those players to boost the overall skill level else it will return to the mire. The Phoenix provide another home for them and Australian players. I expect a Christchurch team to do the same in a few years.
The equivalent of an eighth of NZ’s population live in Australia and citizens of both countries freely travel between each other. Eventually, we’ll have a shared currency. There’s even a provision in your constitution for us to be your seventh state. To me, this paints a reasonably unique picture. One that requires similarly unique solutions.
March 9th 2010 @ 3:30pm
katzilla said | March 9th 2010 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
In rolls Republican with his usual Cut and Paste.
I wondered when you’d show up to back up the other Sith, Senator of the Republic.
“Always two there is hmmmmmmmm”