Wallabies to face Argentina in expanded Tri-Nations
By AP, 10 Mar 2010 AP is a Roar Pro
- Tagged:
- Argentina, IRB, Rugby Union, Tri Nations, wallabies
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Rugby Union’s international governing body will pay $US2 million ($A2.2 million) so Argentina can play in an expanded Tri-Nations tournament from 2012.
International Rugby Board chairman Bernard Lapasset said the one-off payment would remove the final obstacle keeping the Pumas from joining the championship, which features Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.
The IRB council must confirm the deal at a meeting next month, Lapasset said.
Argentina finished third at the 2007 Rugby World Cup but has wanted regular matches against highly ranked opposition as it is geographically stranded on the international rugby map.
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Seiran said | March 10th 2010 @ 4:52am | Report comment
This is the best news I’ve read in a long time. Not only will this help the Argies develop their rugby but it will also be great for the specators.
I wonder where they will be basing themselves, in Argentina or in Melbourne?
I’m guessing we’ll be seeing a few Argies popping up in the rebels team next year then?
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 5:58am | Report comment
It’s a nice idea, but I can’t see Argentina winning a match in the tournament for several years.
Alders said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Probably not. It takes years for nations such as this to develop but they do need the competition. The French took a long long long time to win their first match in the 5 nations. They made Italy look as though they are running riot.
The Other Reds Fan. said | March 10th 2010 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
That’s got to better than us coming last all the time.
MattyP said | March 11th 2010 @ 2:49am | Report comment
Aah… presuming they get home games, what on earth makes you think that? This isn’t Italy and the 6Ns here.
The Bush said | March 10th 2010 @ 6:08am | Report comment
What a pointless little article. I read this a few days ago and thought to myself, ‘well that’s nice, so the Tri-Nation teams can make a nice little profit out of it’. But how on earth does this help Argentina?
Let’s be realistic.
1. Only one Argentine player is currently playing in Super Rugby and his contract was only for one season.
2. No Argentine players in the national team currently play in Argentina.
3. Not in a pink fit are English and French clubs going to release players in July-September to play high class, dangerous, international rugby. These guy’s will effectively be playing all year round even if it is allowed.
The article makes no reference what so ever to how Argentina is expected to field a competative team. And I’m not talking about winning any games in an expanded tournament, I’m talking about not being embarrased by forty points or more, at least on any away fixture.
Until I read an article set out in stone exactly how many Argentine players are being recruited into Super Rugby, what systems they are putting in place at home to ensure a wide enough player pool for the tournament both now and in the future this is all a pipe dream…
Drew B said | March 10th 2010 @ 6:26am | Report comment
The Bush,
Of the 30 man touring squad named last year for the Autumn Internationals, 10 were playing in Agrentina. Not saying this will make them competative, just pointing out the error in your second point.
Your point 3 is the real issue – the IRB regulations mean the Euro clubs can be forced to release the players, but when will they have a solid break, not just a week off here and there?
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 6:51am | Report comment
The Bush you’re right with all that, but even worse a full-strength Argentina could almost never win a match against the best three teams in the world. Look what happened last time with Wales!
Somehow Argentina got lucky playing France in the World Cup and so everyone now thinks they’re a top world team, which they really are not.
JK said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:01am | Report comment
How do they get better?
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:13am | Report comment
Of course it’s a lovely idea, but let’s be honest, if they play 6 matches a year in the tri-nations, they’ll lose 6. Over 10 years that makes 60.
Remember they were thrashed by Wales and fairly recently beaten by Italy.
Look at the speed of Italian rugby’s development in the last 10 years too. It could be the same speed with Argentina.
Chris said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Don’t be so sure, Australia doesn’t exactly have a brilliant record in Argentina. They have also beaten South Africa on South African turf (under the name South American Jaguars).
But what you say above could be said of any Rugby nation outside of Australia, New Zealand and SA. I imagine if England or France were to join the Tri Nations they would have a pretty dismal record. Hell – even Australia struggles to be competitive lately.
It’s better to aim high and miss than aim low and hit. Playing South Africa, the AB’s and Australia twice a year will do absolute wonders to the development of the Argentinian team. Even if they lose 80% of their games they will improve a lot and find playing the NH teams pretty easy come WC time.
Lee said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:37am | Report comment
And the wallabies won one game in last years tri nations and had a 50 point drubbing by the boks last year, teams have bad games.
Chris said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Argentina’s world cup was anything but luck. Not sure if you noticed but they actually beat France twice (by a combined 29 points). The exact same French team that beat the All Blacks in that tournament. They also beat Ireland and Scotland at the same World Cup, as well as doing what they had to in annihilating Namibia and Georgia.
In 2008 they rose to 3rd on the IRB rankings (ahead of such Rugby powerhouses as Australia, England, Ireland, France). You don’t do that by being lucky. Obviously they have fallen off the ball since then – but I can’t really see any other team remaining competitive after 3 years of occasional friendlies.
If you want see a parallel of what would happen if Argentina joined the Tri Nations look no further than the Socceroos. Until 2006, when they played a couple of friendlies a year, they struggled to break the Top 50. Now, after just 4 years of playing meaningful games on a regular basis they are in the Top 25.
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:31am | Report comment
Chris the second French team were utterly demoralised after being knocked out of the competition in their own country. The only real victory was the first one. That’s one real win against a a decent team.
The fact is they can only occasionally put a win past teams ranked far below the top three. Since the World Cup they have been very bad indeed. They would be fine in the six nations, where many of the teams are on a similar level.
But they are far too weak a team to join the tri-nations.
You give the example of the Socceroos. Look in contrast at Italy, who have made no progess whatsoever since joining the Six Nations 10 years ago.
Chris said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:05am | Report comment
I think we would both prefer to see them in the 6 Nations (with a view to joing the Tri Nation eventually) but I would rather see them in the Tri Nations getting beaten than only playing meaningful games once every four years. I can’t see them winning many on the road – but at home they will be bloody tough to beat.
klestical said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:21am | Report comment
I just read an article where the U20 Argentina drew 20-20 with U20 Baby Boks. Maybe they have a chance in the future.
Wavell Wakefield said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
But Argentina also beat Ireland in that WC, kingplaymaker. And, of course, they do have an admirable recent record against France. when you talk of victories over the French you can’t just limit yourself to two matches in the WC. Equally, if you were to suggest that France were demoralised, then logically the same must be true of Argentina, not to mention the fact that Ibanez was retiring.
Dingobob said | March 10th 2010 @ 6:53am | Report comment
Gee you blokes are pessimistic. I bet you guys thought changing the ball from round to oval was a big mistake at the time.
How about you give the concept a chance before you dismiss it. You never know the Argies could surprise you after all they are a proud Rugby playing nation and anything that improves the appeal and interest in Rugby can’t always be a bad thing.
katzilla said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:59am | Report comment
‘I’m talking about not being embarrased by forty points or more, at least on any away fixture.’
Both SA and OZ have been humbled by that amount. And they’ve been there since the start.
rugbyfuture said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:36am | Report comment
the IRB struck a deal with the top14 to say that they’ll release the argentines
The Bush said | March 11th 2010 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Yeah those same Top 14 clubs that release all there French players for internationals…
I’ll give you odd’s on that ACTUALLY happening rugbyfuture…
0.
Bay35Pablo said | March 10th 2010 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
The Bush, Up until recently all Argie pro players have been in Europe and the game in ARG was amateur. In the last year or 2 they have changed, and the Arg A side (the Jaguars) has comprised home based players who are paid. They compete in the Churchill Cup and in one offs.
The Argies will clearly use this as the basis to build off, with any Euro players they can get their hands on. I can see problems with them getting Euro players back, as the S15 will end in the first weekend of August, with the (then) 4N starting afterwards, when the Euro comps are just starting up again.
However, I would also expect that SANZAR will finally free up the eligibility rules where you can play internationals as long as you are playing for any S15 team. This should allow Argie players to play in the S15 and get more experience. Part of the problem with Italian players is their club comp is weak, and only those players in other comps (like Parisi for Stade, etc) are getting top game exposure outside 6N, except for those Italian club sides in Heineken Cup (who get smashed but are slowly improving).
This may also lead to the Argies seeking to put a side or 2 in an expanded S15, for their home based players to do something, as well as potentially leading to a pro home based domestic comp.
Things will flow from this.
AndyS said | March 10th 2010 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Eligibility isn’t a SANZAR issue. The ARU and NZRU don’t allow selection of out-of-country players, SARU does, and the UAR can do what they like.
If you mean they will relax the borders and allow players to play anywhere without check, I doubt it.
JF said | March 10th 2010 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Argentine Rugby seems to be all over the place, with the Jaguars playing in the Americas Rugby Championship and Churchill Cup, the Pampas XV playing in the Vodacom Cup in SA – all the while their best players are contracted in Europe. There are some similarities with Australian Rugby in that the clubs of BA much like the clubs of Sydney hold all the power – and are not keen on a professional domestic comp. Hopefully inclusion in the 4 nations will generate the neccessary funds for the UAR to initiate a pro competiton. I would love to see 6 argentine provinces and 1 each from Uruguay and Chile form a pro south american league.
The Bush said | March 11th 2010 @ 7:51am | Report comment
“Gee you blokes are pessimistic. I bet you guys thought changing the ball from round to oval was a big mistake at the time. How about you give the concept a chance before you dismiss it. You never know the Argies could surprise you after all they are a proud Rugby playing nation and anything that improves the appeal and interest in Rugby can’t always be a bad thing.” Dingobob
No mate just realistic, unlike most people that comment on rugby union here.
Bay35Pablo,
You seem very up on what is happening in Argentina, but I’m also fairly familiar with the current structure of Argentine Rugby, and knowledgable enough to konw the limitations of ‘contracting’ some home based players and entering ‘A’ teams in second rate competitions.
I don’t however share the thoughts of some people on here that a full strength Argentina is not up to beating any of the Tri-Nations sides in Buenos Aires on a good day and I don’t believe they would be as poor an entrant as Italy for a few reasons;
1. Historically they have always fielded stronger teams, for example they have beaten Australia on several occassion throughout their history.
2. They were a venue for recieving Lions tours until recently – certainly Italy has never been that.
3. They have made it to the knock out stages of the WC on two occassions – Italy never has.
4. They have a full on national competition (though dominated by BA, like all things in Argentina) which has more players than fudged Italian statistics.
However all I was simply saying is that too little ground work has been laid for this to occur. Rugby Future has stated that the Top 14 clubs have reached agreement to release there players. No offence Rugby Future but that is rubbish, not in a pink fit will high profile French Club teams, who remember won’t even release French players to play, release Argentine players to play for anything less than millions more than just $2m which the IRB is obviously giving to SANZAR to meet the commercial interests.
Until, as I stated, Argentina has a large enough pool of players playing in Super Rugby, to ensure a competative squad playing a standard that will ensure they will be competative, this is all pointless.
Having said that… best of luck to them, I was at their second win over France at the 07 WC and it was a fantastic moment for a team of truely dedicated rugby/national lovers.
Chris said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:04am | Report comment
Great news – now all we need is to get the Buenos Aires Cougars and the Tucumán Panthers created and entered into Super Rugby and they won’t all have to play in France and have a club v. country issue. Can’t help but think that Argentina would quickly turn into a Top 3 team in no time with a couple of Super Rugby sides. After all they are Top 6 right now (and were even higher a couple of years ago) even with everything stacked against them.
Lee said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:26am | Report comment
This article doesn’t mention it but ones I have read from south African sites say French clubs have agreed tol release their argentine players. The tri nations will take place later from 2012 so it will coincide better with off season in the north.
Why is eveyone being so grumpy about this? What other realistic option is there for Argentina to improve? They did place better in the last world cup than nz, aus, ire, France, and wales
Ora said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Lee I totally agree with you about everyone being grumpy about the Argentines coming into the Tri-Nations. I personally believe it will be good for SH rugby add a little bit of flavour, lets get real here playing NZ,SA or Aus 3 times a year and in the NZ Aus scenario 4 times has become rather boring and it’s starting to lose it’s appeal
One thing I do disagree with you and a few others on is people keep referring to a knockout tournament which is held once every four years. So they finished fourth they did not Play Australia or New Zealand so you cannot use their final place in a knockout tournament as to how good they are or were at the time. Anything can happen on the day in a knockout tournament it hardly proves that they are an all round better team. Because any rugby brain would tell you that even though Aus and NZ finished outside the semis they were and still are much better sides.
I’m all for it but lets not get carried away with the 07 result,
Working Class Rugger said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Ora
I’m not so much saying that the 07 will ensure they will be competitive alone. What and I should have articulated it better is that it was the maturation as a Rugby playing Nation.
JK said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Hang on, the Boks didn’t play NZ or Oz at the cup either, and Argentina finished third
Ora said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Jk you are missing the point completely, this thread seems to be debating the merits of Argentina and their possible development within the 4 Nations. One off tournaments really do not give a true indication of where a team is at especially when one does not play all those involved. Yes your right SA didn’t play Aus or NZ that doesn’t mean to say I or anyone else for that matter is saying the wouldn’t have won. Yes Arg beat Fra who beat NZ but everyone knows how dubious that final result was but we won’t go there. Then again lets look at the Waratahs – Sharks match and the dubious calls there has led to an outrage and the possible suspension of the official involved.
Sorry I digressed, I am all for Argetina playing in the SH elite rugby tournament as I believe they are not going to be as bad as everyone else seems to think they will be. Ok the first year or two maybe but within three to four we will see a very competitive team.
Australia hasn’t played the Pumas since October 2003 where they won 24-8, they also won the three preceeding games before this, We have to go back to 1997 in BA when Argentina last beat Australia. Generally speaking the results between Aus and Arg have been very competitive Aus winning 12 of 17 played and drawing 1 match only 4 of the scores could be classed as blowouts.
New Zealand last played the Pumas in June 2006 scraping home 25-19, of 13 matches they have played NZ has won 12 and drawn 1 back in 1985. Unfortunately for the Pumas they have been on the wrong end of some serious beatings from the ABs more often than not but they are improving.
South Africa have a 100% record against the Pumas official with a mixture of big scores and tight affairs.
We will certainly be able to get a true indication of Argentinian rugby in the 4 nations and where it really is at. After the 07 world cup even though NZ never made the semis their ranking never went lower than 2 and they had reclaimed top spot by July 08. Argentina held 3rd only until the June tests were played in 08 and Australia reclaimed 3rd spot.
JK said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Fair enough Ora, I guess the credibilty of World Cup results are alway’s going to differ between some AB fans and OZ fans :p.
But I know what you are saying, I reckon though if any of OZ,AB or Boks need to travel to BA to clinch the title it won’t be a walkover and I reckon they’ll throw the odd spanner here and there
Lee said | March 10th 2010 @ 11:45am | Report comment
Ora
You mention about possible suspension for a match official – I heard this too on reunion last night. They mentioned Marks and an SA ref. Have you heard much more of this?
Ora said | March 11th 2010 @ 5:08am | Report comment
I posted a link mate in the Plumtree thread where he says the ref cost the sharks the game
Ora said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:54am | Report comment
I did try answering your post but it’s a little long so waiting for approval. I am all for Argentinas inclusion don’t get me wrong, what i am saying is ther 07 result is more of an exception to the rule, however you will see whn my post is cleared that they haven’t done as badly as some in here would like us to think they have against the best three teams in world rugby
JK said | March 10th 2010 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
“Hang on, the Boks didn’t play NZ or Oz at the cup either, and Argentina finished third”
WTF, why did this comment get a thumbs down, would the perpetrator care to explain?
Lee said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:00am | Report comment
I get your point about the World Cup Ora – what I was trying to say was that they have proved that they are capable of beating good teams i.e France so the basics are there, yes it was a world cup but they managed it twice – compare that to the likes of Japan, and Argentina have shown enough to me that we should let them play.
Hell lets see how they go and then intro a Pacific Island team and a Japanese team in a few years.
My favoured set up would be a 5 Nations between SA, NZ, Aus, PI and Japan, the current 6 Nations Comp and a 3 or 4 Nations comp between Argentina, the USA, Canada and maybe Uruguay. Realistically this won’t happen for a while but it would be a good way to help develop smaller rugby nations, and get them playing regular rugby.
Ora said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Yes they are definitely capable of upsetting some big name teams and with their inclusion in the SH elite competition it will in my opinion become a more regular occurance. How could they not improve playing the best three teams in the world every year. I believe the best Argentinian players will want to play in this series and will do their best to be involved. Hopefully the current S15 sides will grant an allocation of maybe 2 Pumas per squad of 30 to help them along in their journey.
Brett McKay said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:26am | Report comment
When this was first mooted some time ago, one of the conditions SANZAR wanted to place on entry was that the European clubs would have to release the selected Argentine Internationals. I know this brief doesn’t mention in, but was that also part of the IRB announcement??
pothale said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:30am | Report comment
I think that getting the answer to some of the questions posed might be found in another piece of news this week, that has gone largely unreported in SH media.
Celtic Rugby announced yesterday that two Italian Super clubs will join the Magners League starting next season with upfront money of €3-4 m being put in the pot.
Scotland eventually rolled over in the face of threats from Wales and Ireland to throw them out of the Magners in favour of the Italians to allow them in.
Benetton Treviso, and a new super club including Parma, and other Super 10 clubs, to be called the Aironi (Herons) will compete in a new 12 team Magners League from next season. “”It is anticipated that the Italian super clubs will be largely made up of Italian internationals of full, A and under 20 levels, with a sprinkling of top class overseas players set to provide further extra strength and spice to the tournament,” according to Celtic League.
Currently some of the better Italian players such as Martin Castrogiovanni and Sergio Parisse ply their trade in England and France. It’s possible that some of these players will be persuaded to return to the Italian clubs, though there has been no talk as of yet about bringing in central contracting as practised in Ireland, Wales and Scotland. Concentrating their talents into two teams competing in a ever-improving Magners League – Munster & Leinster have been regular recent winners of the Heineken Cup, and Wales/Ireland have done well in the 6 Nations – augurs well for the future performance of the Italian national test team.
By the time Italy arrive at the World Cup, their players will have had a full season of Magners under their belts, as well as more competitive 6 Nations and Heineken Cup runs.
The outflow of Italians from English and French teams (although much lower in number) may well be mirrored by Argentinian players who could flow to Super 15 teams, as well as developing their own national league system.
Just a thought on two worthwhile developments in the game announced this week.
Working Class Rugger said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Pothale
Considering that not so long ago the involvement of any Italian teams looked very shaky this is good news. Read the article yesterday and decided that I would renew my Setanta subscription next season. Though there is one nagging question. What does this mean for the Super 10 Competition. Will they simply promote teams to replace these teams or will they continue to compete. One thing is for sure its will be certainly be relegated to the level of feeder Competition for the ML franchises.
Oh and another question. Considering player population and if they prove successful in the ML what is the likelihood of seeing at least 1 or 2 more Italian sides in the future. Anyway good news particularly for Italian Rugby. Considering the dominance of ML teams of late in the HEC and the relative stength of Ireland and Wales this is a major step forward.
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Working Class it may be good for the Italian team because they will have more regular, higher-quality competition, but how will it help the growth of rugby in Italy to reduce their 10 teams to 2? What about rugby fans in Rome or Abruzzo who will now have nothing at all to watch?
Working Class Rugger said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:28am | Report comment
KPM
Rugby is developing quite nicely in Italy. In fact late last figures released by an independent marketing company found that Rugby was in fact Italy’s fastest growing Sport. The Top 10 will still exist and grow but seeing Italian teams be competitive on a grander stage will make the sport more attractive. It’s very hard to attract fans if you have a low quality Championship to work with. The ML while some may argue differently is a top line Championship. In all this actually set up a rather dynamica pathway for Italian Rugby which is something that has hindered the progress immensely. They will now have a proving ground directly beneath their for at least in the near future two ML teams. It’s actually not a bad thing at all.
As for Roman Rugby fans. Well, I suggest they get in contact with those who lost Rome’s opportunity to host a ML team. Originally they were ment to but due to a general incompetence they lost the shot. The Celtic League is taking a risk after all and these appear to be the two most stable and importantly viable options. From what I understand there is also an option in the future if these two prove to be successful to bring in possibly one or two more. And they will still have something to watch. The Super 10 will still exist.
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Working Class Rugger it’s very important they have a team in Rome and Abruzzo, two in Veneto and one near Parma, as these are the heartlands for rugby. I think it would be good if they pressurized the Magner’s league into accepting at least two more teams.
The way they could provide four good quality teams would be by allowing more international players in each team.
pothale said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:29am | Report comment
KPM – it won’t reduce their ten teams to two. Treviso already exist as a club in the Super 10 and play each year in the HC as well. Aironi will be a new franchise club drawing from Viadana, Rugby Parma, Gran Parma, Colorno, Noceto, Reggio Emilia, Modena and Mantova.
These other clubs will remain, and as far as I’m aware, the Super 10 will continue.
You can view this development positively and negatively. I see the positive side.
The Italian RFU are putting substantial money into developing two premier clubs who will compete in Magners. Other players will still be developed in the Super 10 and have a chance to be picked for one of the two Magners teams (or obviously be picked by French and English teams as a small number do already.)
TV money will also be added to the mix.
Outside of people like Castro, Parisse, etc, the rest of the Italian squad don’t get a chance to play top-flight rugby regularly, and then find out the hard way when they land into the Heinieken Cup each season. Although Treviso did a lot better this season than previous, taking two good scalps before getting knocked out.
Since Games will be on a home and away basis, it also helps to build fan base and support for the game, with fans now get a chance to see league games against the likes of Munster, Leinster, Scarlets, Ospreys each season. It’s a tough assignment for existing fans in the Magners of course. Now we’ll have to decide whether I want my 6 away games each season to be in wet and windy Cardiff and Edinburgh, or will I have to travel all the way to Rome and Venice – just not fair really.
Working Class Rugger said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Pothale
Tough choice. How will you ever choose?
pothale said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:44am | Report comment
I’ll just have to toss a coin each time, I suppose. Rome on one side, Venice on the other.
rugbyfuture said | March 10th 2010 @ 10:55am | Report comment
i think its good for italian rugby but bad otherwise, it sorotf undermines this cultural identity the Magners comes across as being (or previously trying to purvey) with new age celticism. Perhaps once Italian rugby develops to a more self sustainable point (with its super 10 becoming a money pot like the top 14) these teams will leave?
pothale said | March 10th 2010 @ 11:21am | Report comment
New Age Celtism?
What’s that, rugbyfuture?
The Celtic link is a load of baloney in my view, and always has been. It’s a handy moniker under which to put the Irish, Scottish & Welsh team. There’s very little loyalty to a celtic culture banner, in my view. There’s quite a few who believe that Wales would leave in the morning, if they had a chance to play in the english league. The creation of the anglo-welsh cup is a symptom of that. And the Welsh got thrown out of the league before when they tried get too cosy with the English clubs previously. Celtic Rugby as a title may get changed to reflect that it is now four nations. With the current title sponsor in place though, it’s not a immediate requirement.
The league has a number of possible new entrants in the future – a new Scottish club based in London. London Welsh who currently play in English league but who might be interested if promotion/relegation is removed from the Premiership, or a third Italian team.
European leagues are not that difficult to adminster given the relative closeness of countries in travel terms.
And let’s not forget, SA Rugby twice looked at the possibility of one or two of their teams participating in the Magners.
The more variety and quality the better, I think.
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Pothale some fair points.
As I just said to WRC, I would be happy if Italy had four or even five teams, with one more in Veneto, one in Rome and another in Abruzzo, thereby covering the real heartlands. They could increase the strength of these teams by bringing in foreign players.
pothale said | March 10th 2010 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Yeah KPM, you’re right.
I got one fact wrong above. The games for Aironi will be based around Viadana in the north with bigger games going to Reggio Emilia, with Treviso playing out of Veneto. So Milan and Veneto/Venice would be the big city draws for a rugby weekend, although a bit of travelling involved.
Politics got in the way of Praetorians Roma’s bid being successful, although Benetton’s financial clout went a long way in ensuring the Veneto club got the nod. Nothing to do with the head of the AIR coming from the area of course.
Rickety Knees said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Spot on Pots
Sam said | March 10th 2010 @ 11:51am | Report comment
I think its good news. Heard that it wasn’t going to happen because of pretty extreme financial demands from the Magners League to the Italian RU, so good to see that has been sorted out. Just regarding some of the comments above. I think this is a really positive thing for a few reasons:
* Having the best players pooled into two teams will absolutely increase the standard of play, sure they may want to have another 1 or 2 teams in the future, but baby steps.
* The Super 10 will keep going, so they’ll have a development path for other players – this is the ‘third tier’ that Australia lacks.
* Despite claims to the contrary, Italian rugby hasn’t really developed at the elite level very well in the last decade. Many players that played club rugby there in the early 90s claim that the standard of play hasn’t increased in the Super 10 much. Doesn’t help that the comp. is stacked full of foreign players that would prob not make it in their home competitions.
Bay35Pablo said | March 10th 2010 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Will be interesting to see how they handle Italian qualification for HC. Will it still be the top Super 10 sides? Or via Magners? OOr the 2 magners sides?
Sam said | March 10th 2010 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Hopefully the 2 Magners sides. I mean they are Italian, and will no doubt be the two best Italian teams. Best for the HC and best for Italy that they’re in there.
pothale said | March 10th 2010 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
Well the Italians are assuming they will have the two Magners teams qualifying automatically like the ‘two Scottish clubs’ as they are quoted.
However, this will now mean that the Magners will have ten automatic places. Whatever about England and France’s view of this – they only get 6 automatic places – I think this should be reduced over time to say a Top 7 or 8 to qualify and irrespective of country.
Sam said | March 11th 2010 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Why? England and France will still have more clubs in the competition than any other country.
King of the Gorganites said | March 10th 2010 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
rugby 365 reported this story. i tried posting a link in another thread
Working Class Rugger said | March 10th 2010 @ 7:36am | Report comment
I can see where some are coming from. There is a worry that they may replicate the struggles in competitiveness of Italy. However, there are several points of difference. First of all, they are a Top 6 Nation and in a significantly stronger position than Italy when it was included in the then 5 Nations. So they got lucky twice against France in 07. That’s a load of BS. I watched both games and it was never luck, they were prepared. If Argentina gets the opportunity as the did in 07 to have a build up to the expanded Tri Nations they will be plenty competitive especially in Argentina. Finally, while Italy produces a few top line player’s Argentina has practically a production line. This is greatly assisted by the development of the game in the country.
Chris
The only issue with having 2 Argentine Super Teams would the the travel. I personally believe the UAR, SANZAR and the IRB would be better served in developing the Cross Border Championship (formerly Super 8 tournament) into least a semi-professional to professional Championship. This Championship consists of 6 Argentine province ( BA and Cordoba don’t compete but could be brought into the fold) Ururguay and Chile. Effectively there is already a possible 10 team Competition in the waiting. Having entry into the Tri Nations would finally give the UAR a bargaining chip to develop a media deal in a continent where Rugby still has a limited presence.
AndyS said | March 10th 2010 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
I would have thought the smart move would be to look northwards as well, to some pan-american Super competition…
kingplaymaker said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Working Class Rugger I said they got lucky once, not twice. In the third-place play-off they were facing a severely dispirited France, in the first match it was a genuine victory.
There’s another problem with 2 Argentine Super teams. Super salaries are already fairly low compared to European ones and how much could the Argentine union afford to pay players for a Super team? It might be quite hard to recruit players to a team where they’re paid 50,000 a year.
Harry said | March 10th 2010 @ 8:30am | Report comment
This is excellent news for the development of rugby union. As to all those pessimists about the quality of Argentinian rugby, I think you might be in for a surprise, IF they can get all their Euro-based players back. They’ll be extremely competitive, particularly at home.
I have seen Argentina destroy Australia, in Australia, in 1983 at Ballymore. They scored a memorable pushover try from scrum, afterward the torn-up turf gave testimony to their forward power. So we very smartly knicked their best player – Topo!