Australia's Wallabies react after their 19-14 loss to New Zealand's All Blacks during their Bledisloe Cup match in Hong Kong Saturday, Nov. 1, 2008. AP Photo/Kin Cheung
I’m convinced many Australian rugby union fans live in a parallel universe, refusing to acknowledge the dire situation their sport is in compared to the other footy codes.
Union has the least player participation numbers of the four footy codes; it has the least TV penetration of the four footy codes; it attracts the least number of fans to its games; and this last point is going to hurt – it is the most boring of the four footy codes to watch on a regular basis., in my opinion.
Consequently, RU fans are the least passionate about their game – can you blame them? And yet, and yet, and yet many of them will tell you everything is just going along so swimmingly well.
It’s all about style being more important than substance, appearances being more important than effect. Whatever you do, don’t admit any faults, dear boy. It’s like the British in Singapore/Malaya pre-December 1941, living in a totally delusional parallel universe.
It was fellow Roarer Who Needs Melon who said during the week that while he was a passionate rugby supporter, he wanted to also be a realist, and not deluded. Or words to that effect.
They attempt to offer constructive criticism. Yet we seem to live in a world where any criticism is somehow a sign of weakness from the accuser. How does this work?
Elsewhere, Andrew Logan has written a passionate post about dwindling S14 crowds at Aussie games. Is it any wonder? Quite often the rugby on offer is absolute trite.
Don’t try and tell me the Tahs have turned the corner because they thrashed the hapless Lions. Even Penrith or Parramatta would give them a run for their money.
Speaking of Parramatta, there are concerns this proud and great Western Sydney club might not be able to field enough players in the Shute Shield this year. Does this not ring alarm bells?
Last night I was at a dinner at my mother in law’s place. Of the four adult males present, I was outvoted 3-1 to watch the Dragons-Eels match over the Tahs-Lions match.
When I say outvoted, while they were all true RL fans, I was actually non-committal, and quite happy to see the RL match, which I thought would provide more competitive excitement than the training run the Tahs were expecting against the Lions.
The NRL game lived up to expectations – it was a cracker, won by the Dragons 18-12. Although they led all the way, the Eels had explosive players capable of turning the game in a few minutes. On this occasion they were held.
Over the past 5 to 10 year, RL continues to go from strength to strength in the public mind, while RU continues to dither and slither along rather aimlessly.
AFL is talking expansion while A-League football is doing just that – expanding.
It’s a sad state of affairs. I’ve said this many times before and I’ll say it again – for rugby union to progress, it must first admit it has a problem. A massive problem!
This simple fact, that rugby union is in dire straights, is apparently being ignored by delusional rugby union living in some kind of parallel universe.
Recommend this story.
The Turkey 10
The Turkey 10 teams have now been selected, as Wild Turkey Bourbon's sport sponsorship kicks into the next exciting phase.
Choose which side you're going to support and get in the running to win $2,500!
Simply visit Wild Turkey Australia on Facebook for your chance to win.
Find out more.
- Explore:
- Australia, NRL, Rugby Union, Super Rugby
March 14th 2010 @ 9:43am
Justin said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Sheek – Whats the point of your article?
I agree some people have their head in the sand but is it really any different to other sports fans? I think not.
What do you want from the game? The past few years have been average in S14, most would probably agree. If you have been watching this year you would see a noticeable improvement in the game. Its heading in the right direction. The game is fast, attacking and tight.
The season is set up for the Brumbies and Tahs IF they are good enough. They have done the tough road trip to SA. The Buls and Stormers who have both looked very good (the Bulls in attack, not so much in D and the Stormer probably the opposite although they looked better last night in attack). They are both yet to travel which is where the comp really starts for them.
Your Eels – Dragons comparison was a bit pointless. I would have been torn and I dont even like league but thats a big match to kick off the season where the Tahs who have been boring were playing a team who are useless.
I think the only sport in this country that can spruik about crowds is the AFL and the Broncs in league. Union would be killing soccer at the gate on averages too.
Sit back and enjoy the match today. The Reds are playing inspired, tough and attacking football. Hopefully its dry in Brisbane and a decent crowd rocks up.
March 14th 2010 @ 10:17am
JF said | March 14th 2010 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Yes, what is the point of your article Sheek?
Australia has four mainstream football codes – this is a tough market! So what should all us rugby fans do about our 4th placing? Stop kidding ourselves by enjoying the rugby and supporting our teams? We should all start complaining even more about the state of our game?
The problem for our game is we are in constant comparison to RL, rugby needs to redefine its own culture, traditions and values, this is the strength of our game.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:39pm
Tom said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
There is seemingly a culture amongst union fans that they seem unwilling to criticise the game at all (I’m sure this attitude exists in league fans as well, but that is not the point). Indeed, some of my more dyed in the wool union supporting fans claimed they thoroughly enjoyed the Sharks – Waratahs game the other week. Any objective viewer could tell that game was absolute tripe, and yet some union supporters seem unable to do so. This is exemplified by the NH opposition to the Stellenbosch laws.
Kick – a – thons and dour ruck and mauling, and 10 scrum resets in a row aren’t going to win fans, and without changes the game probably will decline. The game could benefit from some rule changes to discourage such play, but many of the traditionalists seem unable to accept this.
March 16th 2010 @ 6:56pm
AndyS said | March 16th 2010 @ 6:56pm | Report comment
Actually, I would have said that the predominant culture most of the time is to invariably look for the cloud rather than the silver lining. All codes have dire games, but while they tend to be ignored in the other codes in favour of the exciting ones, RU supporters agonise over the bad ones, vilify the culprits and generalise it as indicative of problems in the code, everywhere, always.
March 16th 2010 @ 7:34pm
Siva Samoa said | March 16th 2010 @ 7:34pm | Report comment
maybe you should take a look at some of the rugby league forums and see how some rugby league fans finds the stuff they are watching in the superleague so boring. Yes you get some good games and some really boring ones. I enjoyed many super 14 games in the weekend but not the Waratahs/Lions game. The Lions were finish at halftime.
March 14th 2010 @ 9:52am
True Tah said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Sheek
the focus seems to be on the Tahs and their problems. Im sure if Australians were exposed to some of the rugby played by the Bulls, Reds, Crusaders, Chiefs, Stormers then they might change their viewpoint about rugby. Getting these games on FTA even as a reply would be great. Players like Habana, Carter, Spies, Sivivatu.
Some of the Six Nations has been great as well, France played some outstanding rugby to beat the Irish. Again some of the players like Shane Williams, Tommy Bowe, Mathieu Bastraeud, O’Driscoll would certainly provide some spark.
I think the real flaw has been the insular attitudes of Australian rugby, we dont like to think anyone else is worth watching, and we would rather watch NRL than say the Bulls or the Chiefs.
To an extent the NRL and AFL are their own masters, they can change rules at the drop of a hat, whereas the ARU has to deal with the IRB in this regard, and Im not too sure if the IRB is too concerned about competing with the AFL or NRL.
March 14th 2010 @ 9:57am
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:57am | Report comment
TT, that’s because the IRB knows they’d have no hope.
The horse bolted 100 years ago.
March 14th 2010 @ 5:04pm
Timmypig said | March 14th 2010 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
Actually Rod I’d have thought that the IRB can afford to ignore the NRL and the AFL. I’m not having a dig at Rugby League or Aussie Rules – both brilliant games – but the IRB is global, NRL and AFL aren’t.
March 14th 2010 @ 6:38pm
Jim Wilson said | March 14th 2010 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
Unortunately Timmy it’s not. Union is a minor sport in a couple of major countries & a major sport in a couple of very small countries.
In case you have not seen this report you might like to comment:
http://www.puttingrugbyfirst.com/executive_summary.php
“1.2 Rugby today
Rugby’s main issue is its narrow global footprint: its popularity is largely limited to the Foundation Unions¹ – eight relatively small countries. Rugby is not played or followed, to any significant degree, in the large and fastgrowing nations that will be the engines of the world’s future economic growth.
According to the International Rugby Board (IRB), there are more than four million registered players worldwide, but more than half are from England and over threequarters (3.3 million) come from the eight Foundation Unions overall. Meanwhile, there are less than a quarter of a million players in the ten most populous nations of the world (China, India, USA, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Russia, Nigeria, and Japan).
Television audience data for the 2007 World Cup final, between South Africa and England, shows that 97% of the 33 million total viewers came from the Foundation Unions – with just half a million viewers of the final spread amongst all the remaining nations where it was shown live. There are 115 members of the IRB – but rugby is evidently not particularly popular in most of them.
March 14th 2010 @ 7:01pm
ohtani's jacket said | March 14th 2010 @ 7:01pm | Report comment
What makes you trust the validity of that report?
March 14th 2010 @ 7:27pm
Jim Wilson said | March 14th 2010 @ 7:27pm | Report comment
OJ
The reports was prepared by some English RU fans. I have no reason to doubt their motives or the evidence they presented.
There is a firm called Initiative (or something similar) that tracks international TV audiences. The reports uses evidence sourced from this firm.
The reason why them was less than a million in all but three countries of the world is that the RUWC Final was restricted to Pay TV. Pay TV has a very small penetration in the vast majority of the countries of the world.
March 14th 2010 @ 8:18pm
rugbyfuture said | March 14th 2010 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
and just to add to Jim Wilsons crap, that website is from a few years ago, before the growth of much of rugby and the olympic decision. also many of its figures are grossly innaccurate. Everyone already debated this and that was the fact which came out of it.
March 14th 2010 @ 8:22pm
ohtani's jacket said | March 14th 2010 @ 8:22pm | Report comment
The report was a criticism of the way the IRB handles the game and in particular the decision to award the 2011 World Cup to New Zealand and not Japan. The facts and figures may be correct (can’t say it bothers me truthfully) but the general thrust of the report is misguided.
It’s basically a report written by people who *want* rugby to be a global game, but what’s a global sport? A sport that’s played in every country or a sport that’s played professionally around the world? Aside from football, the rest of “global sport” is a little fuzzy.
March 14th 2010 @ 9:24pm
Dave said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:24pm | Report comment
That was a report paid for by the English Premiership rugby clubs who wanted more money and more saying in English rugby affairs. Everything in that report was made to look bad to get their point through but RFU and IRB had the last laugh.Its funny how you said Jim Wilson rugby is a minor sports in most major countries.
But rugby is one of the major sports in places like England, Wales, Scotland, NZ, France and maybe Ireland.
March 14th 2010 @ 7:03pm
Pete said | March 14th 2010 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Jim, I don’t think any Rugby Union followers think Rugby is a truely global game, but it is a still a game with a good international foot print. The countries that you mention in your quote China, USA, Brazil and Russia are rolling out 7s programs for the olympics. Rugby is in a reasonable position globally and its growing slowly.
March 14th 2010 @ 9:18pm
Dave said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
So you guys use this report as source of information but when rugby union fans says England rugby has over a million rugby players you guys totally deny it. Which one is it JW ?
March 14th 2010 @ 9:12pm
Dave said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:12pm | Report comment
The IRB has more money the International rugby league federation and has many countries playing their sport Rod. I think you meant rugby league hasn’t got any hope of catching the IRB.
March 14th 2010 @ 10:00am
stillmissit said | March 14th 2010 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Sheek – You are forgetting the state of the average watcher at the moment and what they want is instant satisfaction and nothing to upset the brain.
Rugby is and always will be (hopefully) a game for either smart players or players with good football/tactical awareness. Rugby League has always appealed to those who like their sport confrontational but not too demanding.
In our schools where mathematics is a lost art killed by too many female teachers with limited interest in it and English dumbed down so that everyone gets a gong. The kids are coming out barely able to express themselves leave alone think.
It will all turn at some stage and someone will say our kids need to be challenged to succeed and not succeed without challenge as it seems at the moment. Rugby will still be there, maybe in an amateur form, where its elitist intellectual nature will come to the fore again.
Maybe I am just endorsing your view but I am happy to take my substitute war with a few more issues than advance and retreat.
March 14th 2010 @ 10:38am
MyGeneration said | March 14th 2010 @ 10:38am | Report comment
“its elitist intellectual nature will come to the fore again” – or find itself in an elitist intellectual ghetto. Where has Rugby Union thrived because of it’s “elitist intellectual nature”? I think that phrase exemplifies the arrogant stupidity that keeps Rugby Union in the margins in this country, which still like to think of itself as a pretty egalitarian place. Stillmissit, do you really think the Australian nature is that different to anyone else’s?
Yes, I think people who characterise themselves as elite intellectuals are arrogant and stupid, almost by self-description, or at least most people would see them that way, which effectively is the same thing as far as the perception of Rugby Union is concerned. It must be in the fine print of the Waratahs’ ad campaign: “Do You Have What It Takes To Be Jersey 23? Are you part of the intellectual elite?” It’s obviously working.
March 14th 2010 @ 10:48am
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 10:48am | Report comment
My Gen, Nail, hammer, Hit.
Couldn’t agree more.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:29pm
stillmissit said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
My Gen – “do you really think the Australian nature is that different to anyone else’s?
No I think it’s better than most.
We are all stupid and arrogant at some times. If you think that rugby is not so popular in Australia due to it’s not being able to attract the average punter well good luck to you and maybe you are being stupid to expect it to be so, but no sign in your note of arrogance.
SA has a long tradition with rugby as has NZ. Australia has never had rugby as it’s leading winter sport to my knowledge (Sheek may know different). It has had one moment in the sun recently when McQueen and O’Neil took it to dizzy heights. It’s not there now and will struggle to get there again. It is life as per Norm – see below.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:53pm
MyGeneration said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
“We are all stupid and arrogant at some times.” Yes, but it shouldn’t be a mission statement.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:55pm
Firebrand Sally said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
stillmissit — Rugby was the dominant code in NSW and Queensland before rugby league was invented in 1908. Go learn at http://www.colonialrugby.com.au/ I thought after 2003 RWC we would get there again, but now I dunno.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:57pm
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
RL was came about in 1895 and turned up in Australia in 1908.
We didn’t invent it, the poms did, we only mastered it
March 14th 2010 @ 1:21pm
stillmissit said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Thanks Sally – will look at it.
“I thought after 2003 RWC we would get there again, but now I dunno.”
Don’t think I would be holding my breath for that. I was hopeful after 2001 but had run out of faith by the time Eddie Jones had worked his magic on our players.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:05pm
Norm said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
-”In our schools where mathematics is a lost art killed by too many female teachers with limited interest in it and English dumbed down so that everyone gets a gong. The kids are coming out barely able to express themselves leave alone think.”
Much like the rest of your obtuse rant this mindless generalisation might very well describe your schooling but it bears no correlation with the experiences of anyone else.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:21pm
stillmissit said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Norm – Well named
March 14th 2010 @ 12:35pm
stillmissit said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Just to bless your rant against mine – I guess you have not been listening to the radio in the last week. A Sydney Uni Professor(a female) in charge of the Mathematics Society bemoaning the fact that students are leaving school with almost no understanding of mathematics. You may also have missed the fact that Uni’s all have a remedial class to teach students how to write so that they can complete their degree. There are many examples of how poor the English skills are of our elite students. What do you suppose the English and Maths skills of the average kid leaving school are?
Obtuse Rant – bollocks!
March 14th 2010 @ 12:59pm
Firebrand Sally said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
And the NRL have to run classes to teach young men the basics of manners and how to behave in public. Our schools are turning out kids with a sorry lacking of skills in just about everything.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:03pm
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
But the NRL isn’t the only sport doing this, they all do these days.
March 15th 2010 @ 11:25am
mitzter said | March 15th 2010 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Yes its the schools and not lazy, ‘be friends with your kids’ parenting fault
March 14th 2010 @ 12:29pm
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
if invictus was about an australian rugby story..you’d have the baker’s, miners’ and chimneysweep’s kids playing league one side of the road and the preppy ivy-league college kids playing union on the other side..
March 14th 2010 @ 10:52am
Bay35Pablo said | March 14th 2010 @ 10:52am | Report comment
I do think rugby has been going through a doldrums which has got us rugby fans all depressed, especially when we see the other codes all on the up. The rules interpretations seem to have opened the game up, and even the NH kick & clap brigade seem to be realising the sport needs to buck up.
This is not to diminish sheek’s point, which is that rugby has some serious structural and adminsitrative issues in Australia which need fixing, but it’s not quite yet Armageddon.
One thing I have brushed off for a long time (as I knew where they were from) is the constant complaint that the SAF and NZ teams don’t have any location reference in their names. The reason is the whole combined franchise issue, but I can see why people want to know where the opponents are from. It builds the rivalry and identity, if you can get a sense of your opponents.
This segues into the whole derby issue. NRL and AFL’s strength (and weakness) comes out of their original bases – the Sydney and Melbourne teams. The “us” and the “them” is why many people IMHO support those teams so strongly. I support the Wests Tigers in the NRL. However, I find I don’t really pay much attention to the league news otherwise. If it features the Tigers I read it, otherwise only sometimes. I know which other teams I hate, or respect, or don’t rate. It wouldn’t matter if it was tiddlywinks, if it’s us vs them and there’s a spectacle involved you’ll go support “your” team.
Both NRL and AFL have also built a rivalry outside their home towns. Perth and Adelaide both have 2 AFL teams, with strong rivalries. The NRL now has 3 teams in Queensland, and those derbies have some real zing.
It is this which is lacking in the Super rugby concept. It is present in the local derbies, but when you play many “foreign” teams the zing isn’t there. You want to beat them, but the same zing isn’t there as when you beat your fellow countrymen. Similarly, you can watch some games not involving your team when you know there is zing in the game. E.g. Blues v Crusaders is a huge derby, or Bulls v Sharks, or Reds v Brumbies for a Tahs supporter (who to support, aaah!), etc.
This is why I think the Super 15 format will insert some more zing into the comp, with more derbies. There will be more games that people care about, or can watch knowing they will have zing. In much the same way that sheek could watch the Eels v Dragons knowing it would be a decent game between 2 top teams with lot of rivalry.
In the long run, I am starting to think that sheek’s idea about the S15 moving into a Heinenken Cup format may be the way to go, as it keeps the focus on the derbies.
Keep in mind the SAF and NZ teams used to qualify for the S12 from the NPC Currie Cup, but moved into the franchise format to avoid there being haves and have nots. In that certain teams would always qualify (e.g. Auckland & Canterbury in NZ), thus get all the money and players and weaken the others.
(deep breath, this ended up being longer than I intended)
With the NPC moving towards a 7 team 1st Division, and the Currie Cup top division having 8 teams, I can see us moving back to what we used to have with the S10.
If Australia was to add another 2-3 teams (big call I know, but imagine adding another Sydney & Brisbane side, and perhaps a PI Barbarians side), then you could have the conferences being fully self contained. A Super 24, with 8 from each. Yes you may laugh, but I am starting to suspect this is where we are heading.
The NPC and Currie Cup sides can be promoted and relegated, so their usual comps in August to November or so would be preserved. The teams would be playing for their usual trophies, but also to stay in the teams that go into the next Super comp.
At the beginning of the next year, the teams each play a derby comp within their conferences, with entirely local derbies, home and away (14 games). The teams are playing for the chance to qualify for the finals, or a wildcard qualifier system (as the teams not initially qualifying still need to play for something to keep interest).
The top 4 in each conference qualify for the semis, while the bottom 4 play off in a round robin for a wild card in the finals.
You have 12 teams in the semis, 4 from each country. They are seeded into 3 groups who play each other round robin once. The top 2 teams from each group then qualify for the finals (for 6 teams). The 3rd best teams from each group then play one game drawn from lots against the winner from the wildcard conferences, for the chance at the finals. T6 teams doesn’t work clealy, but I was making this up on the fly. The other teams have a bye that week.
You then have an 8 team finals, knockout style like the RWC quarter finals, leading into a final. You might have it in a set city each year like the European Cup final, or keep the current home team advantage but the issue then is how to deide who gets it.
The above comp would last 14 (derby conference)+3(semis)+1(wildcard knockouts)+3(knock out finals) = 21 weeks (plus probably some byes), with all teams competing in derbies for most of it, and guaranteed 16 weeks of games. The idea is lots of local derbies, but also a finals format more like the Heinenken Cup or football’s Champions League where you are playing the best foreigners rather than every mug.
Anyway, just an idea that I had literally as I wrote this. Again, I am starting to see derbies as the important part of sport, meaning the Super concept needs a major rejig.
Many complain that SAF and NZ put themselves out to help Australian rugby along. However, if you take Australian rugby away it would severaly damage rugby in the southern hemisphere and worldwide. Yes, SAF would probably just plug into Europe, but NZ and rugby in the Asia Pacific generally would suffer greatly if Australian rugby fell over. As such, in many ways JON’s idea of using the Super comp to grow out domestic comp is starting to make a lot of sense. Rugby currently doesn’t have the cash to start and run an ARC until it breaks even, so the Super comp is th only way to go. However, this doesn’t mean they don’t have to do some serious reforming of the ctrustures in place. If either of those two paths fails, things could get rickety in Australia.
March 14th 2010 @ 11:07am
sheek said | March 14th 2010 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Bay,
As we’ve discussed previously, making super rugby a Heineken Cup style format is the ideal future for southern hemisphere rugby.
The SA & NZ regions go back to provinces, with the Currie Cup & ANZ Cup regaining much of their former status. In Australia, we’ll be obliged to develop an ARC/APC.
Then say the top 4 from each of Currie Cup, ANZ Cup & ARC/APC qualify for S12 Heineken Cup style. Thus super rugby still plays its role as a major revenue driver.
On the other hand, fans in each country get to enjoy their national domestic comps (again) & for Aussies, we get to enjoy a national domestic comp as a new source of pleasure (regularly hopefully).
March 14th 2010 @ 11:30am
JF said | March 14th 2010 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Yes Bay, you are spot on with everything you have said.
SH Rugby has many issues to sort out, but without question the biggest issue is that of the franchises and the current Super Rugby format – it is choking Southern Hemisphere Rugby.
Give us what we all want! Real provinces, real derbies, a real season of rugby!
March 14th 2010 @ 12:04pm
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
that’s a very myopic view…this is the age of professional sports, where money talks and bull- walks..you’ll still still have your pops-coached team and your saturday afternoon hit-outs with the gang from across town and night out at the pub afterwards..but if you want to build a successful professional franchise then the super 15 ala epl ala heineken cup ala nfl format is the way to go..do you actually think viewers in japan, europe, u.s actually care if the waratahs are made up entirely of boys who were born, grew up and played their footy in nsw or australia for that matter?
March 14th 2010 @ 10:56am
sheek said | March 14th 2010 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Justin/JF,
The point of my article? I thought it was self-evident.
Australian RU won’t survive unless it realises that whatever its present state of affairs, it simply isn’t good enough.
Stillmissit,
While I sympathise with your view of education, it’s dangerous to suggest RU is for smarties & RL for dumbos. As I tell my daughter, there are many different levels of intelligence. I might argue university produces too many educated idiots. Practical common sense is still a very good gift to possess.
Rat cunning served Josef Stalin very well for example, for he made short work of the supposedly intellectually superior Leon Trotsky, who was the preferred candidate to succeed Lenin.
RL can be clever. The decision by Dragons coach Wayne Bennett to instruct his kickers to kick the ball dead on the 5th tackle to negate the counter-attacking skills of Eels fullback Jarrod Hayne was very smart in my humble opinion.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:02pm
True Tah said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
I like to Soviet analogy Sheek, I just hope union isnt the equivalent of Trotsky, with an ice pick embedded in our collective skulls!
March 14th 2010 @ 12:07pm
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
trotsky, lenin and krushchev never played rugby..
March 14th 2010 @ 12:43pm
stillmissit said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Sheek there are several smart guys who play league. It is not them I am talking about it is the game itself.
“Rat cunning served Josef Stalin very well for example, for he made short work of the supposedly intellectually superior Leon Trotsky, who was the preferred candidate to succeed Lenin.” Agree and maybe their history of murder and abuse might have been different had he got an axe in the head and not Trotsky.
I just noted that Stalin banned rugby after the 2nd WW and it was not allowed until the “Khrushchev thaw”.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:08pm
True Tah said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Somewhat ironic that Stalin’s native Georgia are probably the fastest improving nation in world rugby.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:27pm
MyGeneration said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Sheek, I think some people confuse making things over-complicated with intelligence. Sometimes it’s the opposite. It’s what you do with the rules at your disposal that shows your intelligence. The Dragons’ kicking tactic was simple but smart as you say, and I’ve seen a few Union teams do similar to neutralise good counter-attackers, whereas there are plenty of Union teams at the moment whose tactic seems to be to keep hitting the ball up and take advantage of the new law interpretation to maintain possession till the opposition either gives away a penalty or just runs out of troops. It’s not rocket science.
Although League is on the whole simpler, there is still plenty of room in both codes for more (or less) creative interpretations of the rules at hand. Union does have an advantage in that it’s greater global presence means we see more styles of play at the highest level. But that doesn’t seem to make much difference at the Australian grass roots level.
If anything, there are plenty of people who would be happy getting their hit of local footy fanaticism from the NRL, and dropping into the Union every now and again when the Bledisloe or World Cup comes around. Works for me!
Though I still keep an eye on the Super14, the Eels-Dragons definitely took precedence (for me and my friends) the other night.
March 14th 2010 @ 8:09pm
sheek said | March 14th 2010 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
MG,
I’m beginning to like you – you talk practical common sense more often than not…..
March 14th 2010 @ 2:38pm
Justin said | March 14th 2010 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
The current state of affairs changes considerably next year does it not? At least from the professional side of the game…
March 14th 2010 @ 11:20am
Blackfalcon said | March 14th 2010 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Rugby is only in trouble in Aus. It’s flourishing in SA, NZ, Europe. Wales vs Ireland match: 81 340 attendance, Stormers vs Canes: 44 500. NZ games had good attendances too. Btw, Matt Rodgers? He still doesn’t know anything about rugby. Thank God he went back to league.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:54pm
stillmissit said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Blackfalcon – agree but it has always been so, apart from about 10 years eighties to early 90′s. No change at all.
March 14th 2010 @ 11:28am
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 11:28am | Report comment
if union was so bad, how come nearly every rl star wants to jump ova to the union game?
March 14th 2010 @ 11:44am
Norm said | March 14th 2010 @ 11:44am | Report comment
-”how come nearly every rl star wants to jump ova to the union game?”…ok rikee can you name ALL those stars?
March 14th 2010 @ 11:52am
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 11:52am | Report comment
chambers, gasnier, sbw, cross, thurston, hunt (yea, i know he’s heading to afl next season) etc..you don’t hear of any union players wanting to play league do you?..o well, ‘cept for old gay man gareth thomas..yea, union must be really bad..dream on
March 14th 2010 @ 12:23pm
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
He is old, but why the need to bring his sexuality into it?
I couldn’t care less who he likes or doesn’t like, none of my business and none of yours.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:43pm
Chris said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
A league fan might well retort that a significant number of League stars switch back after playing union at the highest level. Union players that went back to League: Tuqiri, Sailor, Tahu, Blacklock, Rogers and Walker. Chambers also wanted to continue with the Storm but the Reds wouldn’t release him from his contract (as they were very much entitled not to). Hunt is playing Union as a pay day, not as an altruistic gesture towards the Game they Play in Heaven.
But then again I thought this article was about acknowledging where the great game of Union has gone wrong and discussing how we can improve that. Instead some immature posters want to turn this into (another) code war article.
I think that Ricardo above has to revert to gay jokes shows the extent of his maturity.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:17pm
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
not trying to start a code war, just stating the obvious..those players switched to union at the height of their careers didn’t they?It doesn’t matter where Hunt ends up, he’s left the nrl..
I don’t worry too much about numbers..sometimes they’re up sometimes they’re down, but the game goes on..
The game is spreading out of its traditional pockets of nsw and queensland..who in their wildest dreams 15 years ago would think there’d be pro rugby franchises in perth and melbourne?
i got nothing against gays..in fact, if i existed in sheek’s parallel universe i’d probly be a cross-dressing nancyboy meself..hmmm..not?
March 14th 2010 @ 1:36pm
MyGeneration said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
The only numbers that mattered in this case were the ones on the cheques. Player switches are an indication of nothing other than which code is offering the most money for a player at that time.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:02pm
M1tch said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
lol troll alert
Chambers aint a star..maybe a star at union but wasnt in League
Cross is in same boat
Yep Gaz was pretty good and sbw of course
thurston will goto union and will probably do well
no need to go homophobic on gareth thomas
March 14th 2010 @ 1:08pm
rugbyfuture said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
plus chambers and cross were both rugby union players at school.
Gareth Thomas problem isnt that hes gay, its the problem that hes 35 years old. Most in the super league have retired before then. Its a hoorah for league in wales though, until Rugbi Gogledd Cymru starts up a pro team.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:16pm
M1tch said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Gareth Thomas is a win/win for League in Wales, who would have thought after 2009 that a welsh league team could sign anyone in league or union, they were a shambles poor in every area
i cant wait to see how he goes, looking at him though he looks fit and wants the challenge, i doubt it will fail, but i doubt he will win man of steel either
March 14th 2010 @ 1:34pm
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
i was using ‘star’ very loosely..no need to denigrate those players, they were handy leagiues when they were playing in the nrl..
March 14th 2010 @ 1:18pm
John Ryan said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Dont worry Ricardo if and when the next TV contract is done and league gets the money it wants the salary cap will rise to 6mil,you may find that things change a little,I have never understood why League has not spent money in South Africa perhaps when they are cashed up they will follow the AFL and give it a go.
As I have said when Mandela dies I think we will see a get square with the SA RU by the ANC and the Communists who will still be in power
March 14th 2010 @ 9:37pm
Dave said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
If the NRL salary cap rise to 6 million according to some fortune readers on here its only going to raise the pay of their squad but not doing anything to sign rugby stars but then the rugby salary caps goes up every year too.
March 15th 2010 @ 4:29pm
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | March 15th 2010 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
I keep hearing this thing about the next great tv deal….the ABC commentary team on Sunday and Wayne Bennett I think were a little more realistic. They think the hand out to the clubs will be about $6million, the salary Cap about $5million, and as Wayne Bennett says if the old ARL get to put 4 people on the new IC and News get to put 4 members on the IC….do we honestly think that the 4 News Ltd appointees are going to vote for News to pay considerably more for the TV rights…..if so what do news get out of it…….it doesn’t make good business sense to me………unless there is something going on behind the scenes that we are not being told.
March 14th 2010 @ 8:10pm
sheek said | March 14th 2010 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
Ricardo,
You’re going to have to do better than that!
March 14th 2010 @ 12:42pm
Tom said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
I think what would help tremendously is getting Super 14 on FTA. For all the money it would cost in TV deals, I believe it would more than make up for it in terms of increased viewing figures. More exposure ultimately = more money = more ability to invest in the development of the game etc.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:58pm
T C said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
I know this thread is about aussie rugby and the problems it seems to be having but i just want to make a few comments .The game is exploding overseas like it has never before especially with the olympic decision, something the AFL and the NRL can only ever dream of accomplishing also the new law interpretations are taking 15s closer to 7s which is what i’ve been hoping they would do for a long time and that’s from a kiwi boy ,with this law decision the crowds are starting to return in SA and NZ for most teams anyway ,and have you noticed something the teams that arn’t totally commited to changing there style of play (open and expansive verses kickfest) are heading into the toilet .Don’t fret guys as the feelgood vibe returns to the rugby community in Australia youi’ll go into the next stage of growth ,you’ve got to remember something in 1996 rugby union was an extremely small sport but as of 2011 there will be five professional teams that’s something to be proud of in such a short time.To all those people who think the Hienekin Cup is the way to go i’ve thought about this and in my opinion were not ready especially not you guys,more teams spells less resourses per team Europe and Asia with there money would pick the eyes out of our teams we just simply couldn’t compete ,whatever you guys think of your rugby head honcho one thing’s for sure his idea for the new format in 2011 is absolute genius . Don’t tell anyone in Christchurch but i love the way the REDs are playing I hope they win the comp.
March 14th 2010 @ 12:59pm
Crosscoder said | March 14th 2010 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
Ricardo.
One word money,not the perceived love of the new game.That is exactly what Gasnier/SBW/Thurston were after.Chambers and Cross were squeezed out of their clubs by salary cap issues.Tahu/Rogers/Tuqiri/Sailor appear very happy back on familiar ground.
Should the rl be prepared to pay a lot more, then the reverse could apply.Anycase how many NRL clubs are out chasing ru players,juniors perhaps.Although the Roosters did nab a young guy from Sth Africa ru by the name of JP du Plessis,and apparently they have signed another teenager.
He commented ” If i can be successful in the decision i made, I can definitely convince more players to convert over to league”.Im the first guy to come from school and play league from Sth Africa,I’m taking the first step,so hopefully more will follow”.
http:// http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news/print.cfm?objectid=10631916
Both codes will experience players going to and fro.It is to be expected,make your money whilst you can.”Every NRL star wants to jump ship”,better repeat that to Benji Marshall.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:29pm
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
you sure it was just money? or maybe is it because union also affords them the chance to travel the world, experience another culture..maybe a few martinis in Roma or at some sleepy village on the French Riviera? Given the chance, I know you’d crave that too..don’t lie
March 14th 2010 @ 1:33pm
M1tch said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
The money is the factor..otherwise why didnt they choose rugby union in the first place?
Last I saw too, the Kangaroos where in France and had some time off to check out Prague, in fact as I type Dallas Johnson is checking out local wines in southern France
March 14th 2010 @ 1:37pm
ricardo said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
there’s a difference between touring for a couple of weeks and living there, being a socialite with the model girlfriend and plenty of these $$$$..
March 14th 2010 @ 2:39pm
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
I guess Catalans, Toulouse, Limoux, Carcassonne, Pia, Lyon-Ville, UTC, Paris and about 60+ other RL clubs don’t exist in France where plenty of Aussies and Kiwi’s end up?
I also guess wales is another League Illusion?
March 14th 2010 @ 9:40pm
Dave said | March 14th 2010 @ 9:40pm | Report comment
Which Aussies and Kiwi league players ended up in those village in Southern france ?
March 16th 2010 @ 7:18pm
Rod said | March 16th 2010 @ 7:18pm | Report comment
Chris Beatty from the Sharks/Roosters was over there last year, Daniel Wagon was as welll Dave.
Aussies and Kiwis have always gone to France to play.
David Nui who runs the AMNRL and played Union for the USA was another who played RL in France.
4 years ago, Toulouse Olympique had a cap of 2 million Euros, this has since come down because they are in the CC in England, but teams in France can spend anywhere from 300,000 Euros which a club like Carpentras do, to someone like Carcassonne who would spend around 700,000 this year, these players go over their to captain/coach and to live in a different country when their career is coming to an end or they are younger and they want to travel while playing the game, it’s happened for years.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:41pm
rugbyfuture said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
but they arent gonna be playing france much more, considering the new qualification thingo for the four nations from what i understand they’ll have to beat eengland.
March 14th 2010 @ 2:35pm
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
What RF?
England are automatics, it’s between France, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Lebanon to get into the Four nations, I’m sure France has a very good shot.
March 14th 2010 @ 3:52pm
rugbyfuture said | March 14th 2010 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
PNG
March 14th 2010 @ 4:01pm
Rod said | March 14th 2010 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
You obviously don’t know what’s happening in the 4 nations RF.
When the game is held in the Southern hemisphere, the winners of the Pacific cup join Aus, NZ and Eng.
PNG won the Pac Cup last year, so they are playing in this years tournament.
When the Northern Hemisphere hosts the 4 Nations, the winners of the European Cup join Aus, NZ and England in the 4 Nations.
This year, the European Cup is between Wales, France, Ireland, Scotland and Lebanon to see who gets promoted to the 4 Nations next year.
March 14th 2010 @ 1:40pm
MyGeneration said | March 14th 2010 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
I’d love it if someone else was paying for my martinis in Roma! Guess I’m just a culture vulture.
March 14th 2010 @ 5:25pm
Timmypig said | March 14th 2010 @ 5:25pm | Report comment
Crosscoder, I agree with you – blokes went one way prior to 1996, and only the threat of restraint of trade laws reopened the way for defectors/converts to go back to rugby in Australia after their rugby league days had ended (I’m thinking of blokes like Papworth and Melrose).
Since 1996 the traffic has been more the other way, towards rugby. But not exclusively one way, and frankly I’m getting sick and tired of each movement (in either direction) being held up as some kind of crushing blow against the other game. It happens at the fan level, the commentariat level (eg Footy Show or Total Rugby), and by each games’ administrators. Quite plainly it also is seen far too often on this site and others like it.
This ‘my games better than yours’ crap is petulant and tiresome. Like children in the school yard arguing about whose mum’s roast potatoes are the tastiest.