The real problem with Australian rugby
Roar Pro
By sheek, 20 Mar 2010 The Crowd is a Roar Pro
120 Have your say
The Parramatta Two Blues has been in the news recently. There is concern this proud Western Sydney club may not compete in this year’s Sydney Shute Shield (Premier rugby) due to a lack of players.
Even if it does compete, it may only involve one senior and one colts (U/20) team. We haven’t even heard how fellow Western Sydney club, Penrith Emus, is faring.
The lack of penetration into the greater Western Sydney by the NSWRU is coming back to bite them.
Sydney’s Greater West contains the largest youth catchment area in Australia, with rugby league, Australian football and association football all competing against each other for the hearts and minds of these future players.
Rugby union is conspicuous by its absence in this battle out west.
Sure, the NSWRU have made intermittent attempts to penetrate this massive market, but a combination of current lack of funds and previous lack of sufficient will is seeing rugby union well and truly lose the fight.
Indeed, it’s not even in the contest at present.
Meanwhile, across town near the CBD, the Sydney University club has been given immunity for life, it seems. Sydney University doesn’t represent a suburb or district, but here it is, its place in Sydney premier rugby guaranteed in apparent perpetuity.
This is because Sydney University is universally recognised in the lore and history of Australian rugby as our first ever rugby club.
Yet, even this might be in dispute.
Originally, Sydney University RFC claimed it was first founded in 1863, then 1864. Yet, the first documented evidence doesn’t seem to appear until 1865.
Even then, there is speculation it was beaten to the punch as our first rugby club by Sydney FC, which claims to have been founded in June of 1865.
Over the years, it appears the newspapers have often become confused between Sydney FC and Sydney University FC. What is undisputed is that Sydney University can claim to be the oldest continuously existing rugby club in Australia.
On the other hand, there have been various rugby/football clubs named Sydney, with none of them surviving long-term.
When the district club system was introduced in 1900, seven of the original 8 clubs were district based, with Sydney University being given exemption. The elite society dominated rugby establishment had no problem with this obvious anomaly.
For the record, the original eight clubs forming the district competition in 1900 were: Balmain, Glebe, Newtown, North Sydney, South Sydney, Eastern Suburbs, Western Suburbs and Sydney University.
If these teams have a familiar ring to them, with the exception of Sydney University, the other seven clubs were founding rugby league clubs in Sydney in 1908. The other two being Cumberland (later Parramatta) and Newcastle (for one season).
But getting back to Sydney University, don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating they disappear from sight. I simply believe their proper place is in the Suburban comp, freeing up their place in premier rugby for another district based team.
I know a proud and passionate Sydney University supporter like Bruce Ross will take me to task over this, but I simply can’t accept that Sydney University’s place in the Shute Shield is considered inviolate, while Parramatta and perhaps even Penrith, run the risk of disappearing beneath the waves.
The problem of Australian rugby, and NSWRU in particular, is a systemic one, or structural to be precise.
We uphold a team (Sydney University) that represents no district, suburb or region, while seemingly being willing to sacrifice a club that represents a district. Not just a district, but one of the huge youth catchment areas of both Sydney and Australia.
Let’s say both Parramatta and Penrith drop out of Shute Shield.
The westernmost club remaining in the 10 team Shute Shield would be West Harbour, or perhaps Eastwood further to its north. There would also be Sydney University, who represent no district at all, and Eastern Suburbs, whose youth catchment has contracted significantly over the past century.
If Parrmatta, and perhaps Penrith, are allowed to disappear, while Sydney University remains immune from relocation (to suburban rugby), then I can only draw the conclusion that Australian rugby is not at all serious about developing their game.
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Skip said | March 20th 2010 @ 6:40am | Report comment
Sheek,
Great article and I hope you have a bomb shelter in your house.
The issue with the universities as you say is that they dont have thier own suburb but that they also
pillage players from other clubs.
In Brisbane, University of QLD (UQ) offer scholarships to thier rugby academy and acedimic scholarsjips to attract palyers.
These players that have been developed by other clubs. Whilst there is nothing wrong with providing opportunities especially
to disadvantage youth. It is how it is done and what is the motivation for it.
A few years ago UQ recruited three schoolboy hookers the Australia A hooker the QLD Hooker and the QLD schools hooker from the shadow squad. How is this good for these players and QLD Rugby. 2 of them had to play Reserve Colts and 1 as a prop.
The Universities should be pushed back to suburban rugby. Perhaps the Alternative is that they have to play in Western Sydney and develop thier own Juniors.
……………..Batten down the hatches!
max power said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Sydney Uni is exactly the same. At one stage last year their entire forward pack bar two were either Australia schoolboys or Australian U19 / 20 / 21′s representatives and in most cases both. And the two players who weren’t were Jerry YanuYanutawa who was a Fijian schoolboy rep and Tim Davidson who was a NSW schoolboys rep and on a Waratahs contract. According to one Roarer they also had 2 Australia schoolboy halfback’s playing 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade colts.
OldManEmu said | March 21st 2010 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
So when you say Sydney Uni had “2 Australia schoolboy halback’s playing 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade colts” do you mean one of them played two games every weekend?
max power said | March 22nd 2010 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Sorry mistype meant to say 3. They had one starting in every grade.
RickG said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:15am | Report comment
Hear hear Sheek. I sense Bruce Ross is firing up right now.
I had hoped Parra’s relocation to the north-west would be a success. I’m sure some die-hards were against it but it’s such a huge growth area I felt it wouldbe a really positive move. The only thing in university’s favour In my opinion is that with their resources they offer the best step-up to S14 rugby and beyond.
Yikes said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:16am | Report comment
But what to do?
I believe Sydney University has its rightful place in the comp, but at the end of the day their own greed will be the undoing of the competition itself. There ARE 12 teams worth of 1st Grade players out there in Sydney/NSW. The problem is that they are only playing for 10 clubs. And when the comp goes down to 11 teams and there’s only 5 Premiership games each weekend, all that does is weaken club rugby’s brand – and that weakens everyone.
It is the shortsighted greed of a couple of clubs, Uni included, that fight structural mechanisms that support an even spread of talent in the comp. Does Sydney Uni really need BOTH Halangahu and Berrick Barnes (whom they have attempted to sign, not sure if successfully). Plus Carter, and Burgess… Now, these players might not play much but their star quality attracts other players to the club.
Uni say that they’re only too happy to do what they can to support Parra and Penrith. Well, the first thing they did this year is steal Parramatta’s coach, David Campese! Now sure, sure, sure – Campo applied for the job and Parra said go because Uni would be paying him and Parra can’t afford to. But Campo leaving cost Parra a few vital players and a lot of momentum going into the season.
And what’s Campo going to do? My understanding is he’s going to run a Sevens program at the Uni. Sevens! There isn’t even a Sevens comp! Meanwhile, it is increasingly likely Parramatta will disappear from the Premiership. Sure this is due to mismanagement over the years and a deal in the Hills District where they were led up the garden path and then thwarted at the last minute.
Still and all, rugby will be weaker if Parra aren’t there. But don’t worry, because Sydney Uni has a Sevens program!
The question is how to help – NSWRU can’t fund them any different or all the other clubs will riot. They’re prevented from directing Waratahs to certain clubs by the CBA with RUPA. They can’t take over the management of the clubs and wouldn’t be allowed to if they tried… what’s left?
max power said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:43am | Report comment
The same thing happened last year when Gary Ella left Parra for Randwick and took several of Parra’s best players with him.
Rickety Knees said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:18am | Report comment
On the money Sheek! University will be distributing Sheek dolls with complementary pins. However never a truer word has been written. Unis have always represented the elite in education and in the early days the only people who afford to go to Uni were the rich. Culturally it always strives to attract the brightest to maintain their academic ranking. Unfortunately they also use this philosophy with recruiting their Rugby teams. It is about attracting the elite. Last week Berrick Barnes announced that he would play with the club. Now just imgaine the impact that it would have a had on Parramatta or Penrith had he decided to go there. Hell he probably will not ever pull on a Uni jersey. The NSWRU lack of foresight continues to stun me.
Your point on systemic problem of the Shute Shiled is valid. You cannot have a competition where one teams aggressively recruits the elite while offering only tokenism in return. I have never understood why Uni located at next to Redfern has not created its own junior Rugby club that could be an indigenous rugby nursery and perhaps unearth another Mark Ella.
Yikes said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Rickety, how can NSWRU stop Syd Uni from signing Berrick Barnes?
max power said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Actually Barnes will probably spend a lot of time around the club. One of my mates played at the same club as him up in Brisbane and he said Barnes used to turn up every Tuesday and Thursday night for training after Reds training Reds. Imagine the impact his constant presence would have had on a club like Parramatta or Penrith.
Skip said | March 22nd 2010 @ 8:29am | Report comment
RK,
I beleive Berrick had commited to his club in Brisbane, West Bulldogs.
That is until Sydney Uni made him an offer he could nt refuse.
Rickety Knees said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Yikes – you are right that NSWRU cannot stop that. But you and I know that there are ways and means that people can be influenced. Powerful leadership that has the games best interests at heart will often win the day. The Barnes signing was an opportunity lost for Western Sydney.
RickG said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:41am | Report comment
No doubt uni setting up a 7′s program has to do with olympics and possible 7s development running off that (20/20 cricket, anyone?)
Yikes, you seem to know a bit about the planned Parra relocation. What happened that made it fall over?
I’m looking forward to the upcoming comp as ever – I’m even taking my boys to see Eastwood v Randwick today in a trial – but you know I could put my house on the GF being between Uni and Randwick (hopefully Eastwood
) right now. That predictability kinda takes the gloss off it a little.
Rob said | March 20th 2010 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Sheek,
Your article raises many more questions than what I would have answers for. I’ll get to my questions in a minute but just as an obversation I’ve been to the Syd Uni “box” on GF day and it is full of legal and political heavyweights. Eastern Subs would have maybe the money end of town but Uni has other influence.
To my questions:
* How are junior comps structured? In under 14′s for example Eastwood may have Epping, Pennant Hills, Nth Rocks etc (I don’t know if these teams/clubs exist they are just by way of examples) that play under the banner of the Eastwood district. Eastwood would than have an u14′s rep team that could play against the other district clubs. Do all clubs have structures like this?
* It seems that some clubs exist solely on the basis of their financial status . Are there minimum criteria in place for a club to participate in the Syd.comp? Would juniors be a requirement? Should geography/population be relevant? I think of League when clubs were amalgamated or even dropped because they didn’t satisfy requirements but even then money still talked with the Roosters staying in and Souths going despite the strength of respective juniors.
* Would Parramatta be more acceptable if it drew on a different population basis other then predominantly islanders?
* As I’ve said in another piece I think rugby followers can be very fickle and I don’t think they have the tribalism/loyalty that comes from having predominantly district teams . For rugby it may not be “the thing to do” but the game doesn’t attract supporters who are passionate about their club.
Rugby Fan said | March 20th 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
What a nonsense article. I cannot see his point.
hammer said | March 20th 2010 @ 9:43am | Report comment
I agree – is the inference that by dropping SU all of a sudden the western suburbs will bloom into life – as for Barnes – perhaps lives nowhere near western Sydney
RickG said | March 20th 2010 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Uni fan eh?
Seiran said | March 20th 2010 @ 7:49pm | Report comment
I kind of agree. I don’t know anything about the Sydney scene as I don’t live there but to me the big underlying question is what really lies in a name? Players are so namadic that they’re not playing for their hometown anyway so the name of the club and where it is based becomes somewhat irrelevant.
Perhpas the ARU needs to try and crack some heads and pressure the Uni’s into loaning some of these players out to other teams. Particularly if they have top players competing in lower grade comps because they have too many players.
Rugby Fan said | March 20th 2010 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Utter nonsense.
Tighthead said | March 20th 2010 @ 9:07am | Report comment
There are none so blind as those who will not see …..
cookie said | March 20th 2010 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Sheek
Even know Sydney Uni doesn’t initially appear to represent a ‘suburb’, i think if you look a little closer you’ll find in reality it actually does. It comprises on the innerwest / sydney city area.
Also if you simply won’t recognize Sydney Uni’s locale then what’s wrong with a barbarian like side as another way of looking at it?
Sydney Uni’s location or lack of ‘district’ as you put it is not of concern.. What is of concern is the lamentable situation at parramatta and i suspect it is not much better out at penrith.
L’estrange seems to think answering a few post on the roar is going to fix the situation…
Does anyone else think that giving C9 rugby free to air rights is the most moronic decision ever by the ARU????
We will never see a game before league no matter what… C9 is league and anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron.
RickG said | March 20th 2010 @ 10:44am | Report comment
You’re kidding aren’t you Cookie? Geographically Uni may be situated in the inner west but I doubt very much they do anything for the area, juniors or otherwise. Would rugby fans in Newtown, Camperdown, Glebe etc see them as their club and go along to support it? Probably not. It’s an old-boys network of alimni now in the lagal, banking, corporate sectors. Nothing to do with developing or supporting the game. If someone wants to prove me wrong please go ahead – I’d be interested to hear it.
sheek said | March 20th 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Cookie/Rick G,
I notice on the ARU’s ‘find a club’ website, Petersham & Canterbury juniors fall under SU’s influence. I guess this is designed to give SU some kind of geographical legitimacy.
Look, as I attempted to say several times before, it’s not SU per se I have a problem with, it’s the associated mindset.
Sure, Parramatta & Penrith haven’t fallen over yet, & may not do so, yet SU’s position appears to be inviolate. Isn’t there something screaming out to rugby administrators there is something terribly wrong with the way their rugby is structured?
It seems SU attempt to justify their status by talking about the scholarships they provide. But they still represent no significant district, suburb or region.
Sport is built on tribalism. Look at the major European football clubs – Manchester United, Arsenal, Barcelona, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Bayern Munich, Ajax, Marseille, Porto, etc, etc, etc.
Look closer to home at the NRL & AFL. Look at the extraordinary lengths South Sydney Rabbitohs fans went to return their club to the NRL. In Melbourne, love of a footy club is passed down from generation to generation, spread over 150 years.
Most of the Melbourne AFL clubs originated in the inner suburbs. Fans can move to the outer suburbs or to the country or interstate, but still follow their club fanatically.
The only two Australian rugby clubs that can go close to replicating this kind of tribalism are Sydney’s Randwick & Brisbane’s Brothers. Sydney University will never engender this kind of tribalism. Never!
There is a place for SU to continue its wonderful tradition of being Australian rugby’s oldest continuously operating rugby club, & that is in the suburban comp. Free up its place in premier rugby for a district team, say Campbelltown.
And for heaven’s sake, tap into the massive youth growth areas of Penrith in the north-west, Parramatta in the central-west & Campbelltown in the south-west. Every sport needs it’s players, & God knows, Australian rugby’s major problem is a overwhelming lack of cattle.
Seiran said | March 20th 2010 @ 8:03pm | Report comment
And I’m sure supporters of SU hold that same tribalism.
Many supporters of those European clubs you mention support the club on who the club is rather than where it is. Chelsea support grew massively when they were suddenly rich and the same has been with manchester united and arsenal. Manchester is a tiny city but has a massive non-manchester support base.
Also, probably not so relevant but Arsenal football team does not belong to a suburb or district either. It originated from an ammunitions factory (the name gives it away). Should they be kicked out of the premiership because of this?
LT80 said | March 21st 2010 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Sheek, if Brothers are one of only 2 clubs in the country generating any sort of tribal support, then you just destroyed your own argument, because Brothers aren’t a district club. They started out as a Christian Brothers schools old boys club.
And also, I went to the grand final last year (as a neutral), and the crowd was split pretty evely between Randwick and Uni supporters.