They should set up a Super Cricket series
Roar Rookie By Guy_Chev, 25 Mar 2010 Guy_Chev is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- Cricket, James Franklin, Matthew Sinclair, New Zealand cricket
I’ve been sitting here in sunny old New Zealand watching our domestic season unfold. Although, it hasn’t gripped me, it hasn’t really got me slightly interested.
This is a shame, because this season, in terms of international cricket, we’ve had nothing for two months. Until now, of course.
However, international fixtures is a whole new blog, a whole new discussion.
This article is about a proposal that may or may not have already been discussed on The Roar. I’ve been bantering around with a few mates, just casual banter on a weekend, and I threw in an idea that people seemed to like.
The Super 14 (or however many teams) of cricket.
This simply came from a discussion about New Zealand’s domestic scene and how it’s not giving our players enough of a platform to actually be up to international standard. Our players perform in the domestic arena, but can’t in internationals.
Examples? Matthew Sinclair, James Franklin, both the Marshall twins, Chris Martin and the list goes on.
So, when the banter started getting interesting, we really got into it.
We thought New Zealand could have three teams: Southern (Canterbury and Otago), Central/Wellington (Wellington, Hawke’s Bay etc) and Northern (Auckland and Waikato area). Australia would obviously have the states and South Africa would have their teams (sorry for my poor South African knowledge), which I assume would be similar to what they have in the Super 14.
Now, you people in Australia are sitting there and thinking, this is all well and good, but we’ve got an excellent domestic competition thanks. How is this going to help us?
Well, truth be told, when I threw the idea around I was simply thinking of developing New Zealand cricket. But there are definite positives for you, too.
With this competition, teams would be able to play in other countries on a more regular basis, hence they would be able to play in different conditions and develop their games to a high level. So your Australian boys would play games in South Africa, where I know a lot of teams struggle.
This would develop their skills playing on much different pitches to what they’re used to at home. Obviously it would be the same for South Africa (play on faster pitches in Australia and greener and slower pitches in New Zealand), and boy, would it help New Zealand in all facets!
So to the next point: what form of the game?
Well, four dayers are obviously too long. It comes down to a battle between Twenty20 and the more conventional 50 over a side game. I would prefer the 50 over a side format simply because it’s better cricket to watch and helps players develop more than Twenty20 where you just close your eyes and swing.
This would also take some time, but it’s no more than just your one match a week Super 14.
It has some flaws (fitting it in the schedule etc), but I think all three countries would benefit: crowds would increase, people would be more interested in it than the IPL, and of course, players would develop and Southern Hemisphere cricket would develop.
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The Crowd Says (32) | Page 1 of Comments
Have Your Say
- Explore:
- Cricket, James Franklin, Matthew Sinclair, New Zealand cricket
March 25th 2010 @ 6:10am
sheek said | March 25th 2010 @ 6:10am | Report comment
Firstly, forget SA – it’s an ocean too far.
I’ve long thought of 3 NZ teams competing in the Sheffield Shield, Ford Ranger OD series & T20 Big Bash. As you suggest, North NZ (Auckland, ND), Central NZ (Wellington, CD) & South NZ (Canterbury, Otago).
I think the leading Kiwis need regular exposure to different conditions. Playing on the varied Aussie pitches would round out their education.
The 6 NZ provinces could still compete in their domestic comp. But the 3 regions would be needed for the better players to step up. Let’s look at how the 3 forms of cricket in Australia would work.
Each comp would have 9 teams playing each other once. That’s 8 matches plus one bye, 4 home, 4 away. There would be a final 4 for each comp, semis plus a final.
Down the track, NZ could add a 4th team, but initially, it ought to be 3. How Kiwi fans would feel about this though, I don’t know.
March 25th 2010 @ 7:21am
Brett McKay said | March 25th 2010 @ 7:21am | Report comment
Guy, you may or may not know that NZ (as one side) did indeed play in the old Gillette Cup when one-day cricket first started domestcially in Australia, and I think I even recall reading about NZ sides playing in the Aust U19 Champs back in the day. So there’s certainly precedent for a move like this.
I’d agree with Sheek too, South Africa might have to be left out, purely for logistical purposes
The Big Bash and the FR Cup are the obvious candidates for sure. Around the time the Champions League T20 was first mooted, there was suggestions of a S14 or Trans-Tasman Southern Premier League T20 being established, but so far it’s progessed no further than those suggestions. In fact with the Big Bash going to 8 city-based franchise sides from 2011/12, you could even assume the SPL idea is dead in the water.
I could see no real reason why either comp couldn’t accomodate NZ sides, be it 3 or 4 composite teams, or even the 6 first class sides as is. Without being too condescending, I think there’s no doubt it would be of benefit to NZ cricket.
And actually on that, I wouldn’t be too worried about suggesting this from a NZ-benefit-only persepctive – plenty suggest the S14 is only in play to benefit Australian rugby!!
March 25th 2010 @ 7:51am
Fivehole said | March 25th 2010 @ 7:51am | Report comment
I don’t know what the participation numbers are like in NZ, but based on population, wouldn’t 2 teams (North Island and South Island) prove more competitive. Aus has approx 21 million people and 6 teams. NZ has about 5 million people, so i don’t know if 3 teams is the right number.
I like the idea though, as improving NZ cricket would aid the game internationally.
March 25th 2010 @ 7:53am
sheek said | March 25th 2010 @ 7:53am | Report comment
Fivehole,
To be fair to making the Kiwis competitive, that is, competitive amongst themselves for national places, they need a minimum 3 teams.
Splitting the 6 NZ provinces into 3 regions as suggested works very well.
March 25th 2010 @ 8:31am
Fivehole said | March 25th 2010 @ 8:31am | Report comment
I see your point sheek, that it is better for competition for NZ places. However, i’d be concerned that it may dilute their squads so that they would be perennial cellar dwellars against the 6 aussie teams.
I may be overestimating the Australian squads however…..
March 25th 2010 @ 8:39am
sheek said | March 25th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
No Fivehole,
I think you’ll find that 3 NZ regions would be very competitive against 6 Aussie states, certainly once they’ve acquainted themselves with the regular higher standard of play.
In any case, I would suggest the 3 Kiwi regions as an absolute minimum for them, otherwise the purpose of the exercise would lose its meaning.
March 25th 2010 @ 9:41am
Ken said | March 25th 2010 @ 9:41am | Report comment
We already have huge mismatches in population though and it doesn’t really affect the comp. Tassie has just half a million people and won a comp a couple of years back (compared to NSW with 7 million – although half of their players are busy playing for Australia I guess)
March 25th 2010 @ 7:52am
sheek said | March 25th 2010 @ 7:52am | Report comment
Yeah Brett,
The Kiwis used to play annually in our one day comp in the late 60s & up to mid 70s. They also played one or two 1st class matches against the states. I think this annual excursion did them enormous good.
One of the Kiwis traditional problems is their ability to adjust to harder, drier pitches. Brisbane, Sydney & Melbourne might simulate the Saffie pitches in some ways; Adelaide can be like a sub-continent batting dust bowl & Perth is unlike anything else with its prodigious bounce.
I think having 3 NZ regions playing against the 6 Aussie states regularly would do both countries the world of good, & inject a new enthusiasm into summer cricket.
March 25th 2010 @ 7:59am
Brett McKay said | March 25th 2010 @ 7:59am | Report comment
Sheek I didn’t know about the first class games, and I agree, it would be great for all involved if they could be revived in some way.
I wonder if there would be merit in the 6 NZ sides playing in the Futures League, playing three day games against the state U23/2nd XI sides?
March 25th 2010 @ 8:33am
Tom Fox said | March 25th 2010 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Brett,
I think suggesting NZ’s domestic sides should play again 2 XI/U23 sides is dangerous.
Sure, us Kiwis will readily admit that our competition isn’t up to the standard of Australia’s, but playing against 2nd rate Australian players won’t help us progress at all.
NZ Cricket would much prefer to condense their domestic sides to try and lift them to a level where they can compete against Australia’s State sides, than help Australia’s young players get international experience.
One thing that our national side is really struggling with in the current series, is the Aussies pace attack.
We just don’t have bowlers in NZ that reach the 150kmph mark in NZ at the moment.
Maybe if this super series was in place, it wouldn’t be such a shock to the system for our batsmen?
March 25th 2010 @ 8:40am
sheek said | March 25th 2010 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Brett,
Well, I guess another variation is to only have 3 NZ regions for the SS, but you could throw in the 6 NZ provinces for all other forms of the game…..
March 25th 2010 @ 8:45am
Working Class Rugger said | March 25th 2010 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Why should we let them in?. We have the best domestic set up in world Cricket. Why would we want to help out an inferior nation?. Cannot see any benefit toward Australian Cricket. How does having 2 or 3 weak NZ help Circket as a whole. Just another opportunity for NZ to feed off one of our competitions (NBL,NRL,A-League. Netball is more of a partnership).
I’m actually all for NZ joining Australian teams in T20 and the Prua Cup. It just nice for the shoe to be on the other foot for a change.
March 25th 2010 @ 8:53am
Tom Fox said | March 25th 2010 @ 8:53am | Report comment
I don’t want to get too caught up in other codes, but the Phoenix, Warriors and Breakers have all had a great effect on each of those respective leagues. Why would cricket be any different? There are plenty of ex-pats over there to support the teams.
March 25th 2010 @ 9:08am
Working Class Rugger said | March 25th 2010 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Tom Fox
The Phoenix yes, the Warriors to a certain extent but the Breakers no ( its the NBL so its hard). But back to Circket. I would actually like to see at least 2 NZ teams compete domestically. I was just enjoying the moment, after having to listen to how the only one benefitting out of Super Rugby is Australia is just nice to reflect on how much our competitions have assisted the NZ sporting landscape. Small things
.
It has always made sense to me that considering the close proximity of both Nations that any such professional leagues should be on a trans-tasman basis. I see the benefits in terms of commercially out if this and think it will be mutually beneficial in the long run. I’d actually like to see it occur in next seasons Big Bash.
March 25th 2010 @ 9:00am
Brett McKay said | March 25th 2010 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Tom, I think the only way to bring the sides up to standard, as you say, would be the play first class cricket first and foremost, but as Guy wrote in his article, Shield games lasting four days makes that less than ideal. My suggestion of the Futures League was merely as a thought of getting more multi-day day cricket, rather than just using the one-day or T20 formats.
I agree with you, it would be less than ideal to be playing down a level, and I knew a response like yours would be forthcoming. Honestly, I made the suggestion not to downplay the standard of NZ cricket, just tryng to think of a way forward. I’d have no problem with the CD or Canterbury 2nd XIs (plus the others, obviously) playing in the Futures League though, I think that would be a big help for the next level of cricketers in both countries.
Sheek, I’d happily run with that idea, having NZ Norths, Centrals and Souths in the Shield comp, but given that it looks likely we’re about to lose the Shield Final in favour of more limited overs stuff, I just can’t see it happening.
I’m still coming back to your earlier comment about First Class tours. Wouldn’t it be great if say NSW, SA, and WA went to NZ for 2-3 weeks and played games (even three-dayers if need be) against say Otago, CDs and Wellington, while Auckland, NDs and Canterbury went the other way and played games against Tassie, Qld, and the Vics? Maybe it could be done in this late Feb-Mar window?
March 25th 2010 @ 9:11am
Tom Fox said | March 25th 2010 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Would be much more open to U23 sides or 2XI sides playing each other than what you first described.
However, I don’t think NZ cricket is big enough or rich enough to facilitate getting these sides together.
Do the NZ provinces even have U23 sides? I think the highest we go up to is U19 maybe U21 before we send them straight into our domestic competition.
Not really fussed whether it’s one day or 4 day matches to start with. NZ Cricket seems to put all its eggs in the shorter format baskets anyway, so I couldn’t see this sort of idea being any different.
March 25th 2010 @ 9:19am
Brett McKay said | March 25th 2010 @ 9:19am | Report comment
and in reality Tom, logically and logistically, that’s probably the way it would happen…
March 25th 2010 @ 9:32am
Working Class Rugger said | March 25th 2010 @ 9:32am | Report comment
A little bit of a tangent in the conversation but regarding the Future League. I recently watched a story on the state of Cricket in PNG. I wonder if such a League would be more beneficial to PNG than NZ.
March 25th 2010 @ 8:55am
Rickety Knees said | March 25th 2010 @ 8:55am | Report comment
I agree and have said so in many previous threads. NZ Rugby has lifted the standard of Australian Rugby – Australian Cricket should do the same for NZ Cricket. IMHO NZ Cricket should be integrated with Australian Cricket at the 20/20, one day and Sheffield Shield levels.
March 25th 2010 @ 9:53am
Guy_Chev said | March 25th 2010 @ 9:53am | Report comment
A very interesting discussion going on here.
All the points you raise are very valid. I agree with the South African side of things, it is a little too far to travel, but if it were a viable option, I do think it would benefit both NZ and Aus.
I would also like to add (which I did briefly in the article) as well as it being beneficial for the teams and players, I believe it would also be hugely beneficial for cricket as a whole in both countries. If you look at crowd stats in New Zealand for domestic cricket (I don’t have exact numbers), you’re looking at a maximum of 2,000 to a game and even that may be pushing it. Imagine if we had Australian teams playing! Those crowds would be enormous a) because the level of cricket would increase out of sight and b) because I would imagine it would bring the trans-tasman, we love to beat the Aussies, rivalry. Look at the crowds in the series at the moment, I’ve never seen crowds this big for cricket in New Zealand.
I would think it would have a similar effect in Australia. Your crowds in domestic cricket would be fairly good I imagine, but again, Australia loves beating New Zealand, so people would turn up to watch.
I don’t know, maybe an Aussie could shed some light on that for me, but that’s what I would think?
March 25th 2010 @ 11:56am
Fivehole said | March 25th 2010 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Yeah Aussies love beating New Zealand, but we also love an underdog. As a NSWelshman, if an Auckland side was playing the Vics, I’d support Auckland all the way.
I think testing the waters we should add 2 or 3 sides to the 1 dayers and Big Bash, but ultimately they need to be in the Sheffield Shield. This is where Australia’s great strength comes from, despite the lack of crowd interest. NZ would not get stronger in the longer form of the game without it, and at the end of the day the long form is what cricket should primarily be all about.
March 25th 2010 @ 4:20pm
itsuckstobeyou said | March 25th 2010 @ 4:20pm | Report comment
Plans for just such a competition were set in motion in 2008. The goal is a T20 league including all domestic cricket sides from Oz, NZ and SA. Two conferences , one African, one Australasian, with the top sides from each conference to play the others to determine the winner.
The first step was to introduce internationals into the KFC Big Bash, which we have seen come to fruition over the last two “bashes”. The goal was to have the tournament up and running by 2011.
At the time, James Sutherland made no secret of the fact that he too had stolen the idea from Super Rugby.
You might want to consider a career in cricket admin GC.
March 26th 2010 @ 12:32pm
Brett McKay said | March 26th 2010 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
ISTBY, this is the Southern Premier League T20 that I mentioned above in my first post here. It seems to have gone very quiet though, there’s been no new news on an SPLT20 since ..well, ever, it seems.
I’m wondering if CA’s new 8 team franchise T20 comp from 2012 might have superceded the SPLT20??
ha, I’ve just managed to answer this myself, before hitting Add Comment (God bless Google). The Age had a story last July detailing how CA have shelved the SPL idea for now, intead focussing on a revamp of the Big Bash, which as we know will be the new 8 city-based franchise comp..
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-sport/southern-premier-league-plans-shelved-20090701-d536.html
March 27th 2010 @ 12:03am
itsuckstobeyou said | March 27th 2010 @ 12:03am | Report comment
G’day Brett. You’re absolutely right. I just didn’t connect the two.
Remarkably, the article you’ve linked is dated July 1st 09. I must admit I didn’t read it at the time. Only 6 weeks earlier, James Sutherland attended the Tattersalls Club CEOs of Sport meeting where he spruiked the league like that bloke off the Chaser. I wonder why the sudden backflip? I understand the SPL not fitting in with the international schedule (although it hasn’t stopped the Big Bash…), but surely that was something he could have foreseen only 6 weeks earlier? It sounds like some spin to me…
Perhaps your superior google skills can solve this mystery for us all?
March 26th 2010 @ 5:58pm
AA said | March 26th 2010 @ 5:58pm | Report comment
Having New Zealanad based teams in Australian domestic competitions is becoming a headache. Look at the Wellington Phoenix for example, and the grief that is causing from the Asian Football Confederation.
If New Zealand want to ‘catch up to Australia’ then all they have to do is become Australia’s 7th State and instant access to all of Australia’s goodies awaits.
Kiwi’s come to Australia and rave on about how their dairy is better and all this jazz. Stop looking over NZ, if you envy Australia that much then join us as a Federated State.
The answers to New Zealand’s sporting woes is political. Join the Australian Federation and be done with it. You said no back in 1901 but we’ll still accept you.
March 26th 2010 @ 8:51pm
hammer said | March 26th 2010 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
Yet another xenobhobic comment from Mrs Hanson – really makes you wonder sometimes where the supposed moderators of this site are
March 27th 2010 @ 12:10am
wayno said | March 27th 2010 @ 12:10am | Report comment
AA is right, Australia should be looking north, not south. last time I looked this was roar.com.au. not .co.nz.
April 1st 2010 @ 11:04pm
allblackfan said | April 1st 2010 @ 11:04pm | Report comment
Then Wayno, tell your rugby sides (RL and RU) to STOP LOOKING east across the Tasman so much!!
April 1st 2010 @ 11:34pm
wayno said | April 1st 2010 @ 11:34pm | Report comment
The warriors are nothing but a token inclusion in the NRL and RU has to look elsewhere because nobody here knows it exists outside of a few eastern seaboard grammer schools. So all I can really say is, meh!
April 1st 2010 @ 11:42pm
allblackfan said | April 1st 2010 @ 11:42pm | Report comment
Not so token.
The NRL needs the kiwi money (and talent) that the Warriors bring in ($3M a year, about the same as the Broncos); that’s why Aussie netball decided to hook up with the kiwis. Granted, in this case, it’s the Kiwis who need the Aussies. The Aussies don’t need to help the kiwis — in which case you can throw the Hadlee-Chappell trophy in the rubbish bin and forget about ever playing in NZ ever again!!
NZ will be relegated to the lower level of cricket and the Aussies will be left to play England, India and … who else?
March 27th 2010 @ 1:11am
AA said | March 27th 2010 @ 1:11am | Report comment
Hammer,
Just because you don’t like what I write, doesn’t mean it can’t be published.
Who are you, a censor or something?
This site has been provided to allow people to express their views. If we all sat here and agreed with each other it would be boring.
I have a different view to you on the Wellingon Phoenix and now this cricket idea, well so what, live with it.
Wayno, thanks for your comments “looking north” is a skill our Kiwi friends haven’t learnt yet (or haven’t seemed to learn yet).
March 27th 2010 @ 4:15pm
Maori said | March 27th 2010 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
this idea sounds interesting but is unnecessary. let me explain. with the money being thrown about in IPL the young boys in NZ will really be motivated to do better and learn from the best. if they want to play competitive cricket they could always fly over to India and learn from the best in the world. trying to organize tournaments that are neither local nor international which nobody is interested in watching is a waste of time and effort. the $$$ available in IPL and the exposure players will get there should provide enough of an incentive and experinence for the NZ kids to take on cricket and improve their cricketing skills.