Dublin Conference to get rugby going foward
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By rugbyfuture, 22 Apr 2010 rugbyfuture is a Roar Guru
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- Dublin Conference, International Rugby, Rugby Union
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Previously, I have written on the need for rugby to progress. Specifically, in one article I referred to Catholicism’s Vatican II conference, which brought together people involved in the administrations of Catholicism to modernise the religion and a reflection of how this could be enacted in rugby.
Well, it seems that this time may be coming our way soon with the top 20 rugby nations administrators set to meet at next month’s Dublin Conference, with much pressure being put upon them to focus on reviving how the game is played.
This idea is finally being realised beyond the equator with the introduction of new breakdown laws (brought through by the Southern Hemisphere, largely uncredited, of course) that favour the player being tackled at the breakdown in the premiership.
Not only will the administrators be involved in this discussion, but also leading officials and coaches, too, with a survey of all member nations revealing key areas that the game seems to be most concerned about.
Further reports suggest that (surprise, surprise) the “global playing trends” revealed are those of:
* Tackle and ruck areas
* Scrum collapses and resets
* Excess kicking
The object of the conference is explained as a way of defining and streamlining the game as it enters an era of growth. Previously, a conference was held in Woking in 2007.
However, one thing that is assured is that no immediate law changes will come into effect, with the conference making suggestions to the committee for consideration and possible implementation post RWC2011.
One has to wonder, with all this going on around them, what the Southern Hemisphere, after such a long period of calling it out and being ignored, are thinking.
Thank Christ rugby is finally moving forward!
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Viscount Crouchback said | April 22nd 2010 @ 5:47am | Report comment
To paraphrase Regan, the scariest sentence in the English language is surely: “I’m from the IRB and I’m here to fix rugby’s problems”. Did they not notice that the Super 14 and GP have already sorted out their problems themselves? I dread to think what new hare-brained schemes the IRB is about to dream up.
sheek said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Viscount,
“I’m from the IRB & I’m here to fix rugby’s problems.”
This is an oxymoron right? Like cruel kindness, hasten slowly & army intelligence.
You normally wouldn’t associate IRB with fixing rugby’s problem’s in the one sentence. Usually, they’re the problem…..
Brett McKay said | April 22nd 2010 @ 8:24am | Report comment
..and “ARU Marketing”, Sheek….
sheek said | April 22nd 2010 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Ho, ho – good one Brett…..
Skip said | April 22nd 2010 @ 11:05am | Report comment
How is Army inteligence an oxymoron?
sheek said | April 22nd 2010 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Well, ordinarily speaking, you can’t be intelligent to be in the army, can you? I mean, who signs up voluntarily to get killed???
klestical said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
hilarious skip
pothale said | April 22nd 2010 @ 6:58am | Report comment
Indeed. Except there will always be people looking to claim the advances in the game, and blaming someone else for the setbacks.
Last year it was the ELVs, this year it’s the new laws dreamt up by SANZAR coaches, which became new interpretations created by the IRB refs in association with the S14, which became new interpretations brought in by Premier Rugby.
Despite the seeming positive outcomes, they still were badly implemented by the IRB refs, and I’m betting that the June Internationals are going to show up a gap in understanding, execution and implementation when North meets South in the matches. If it’s SH refs only, then the NH teams are going to be blown away. If it’s NH refs, there’ll be widespread condemnation of the poor reffing, dragging the game back to the dark ages, and overall a complete mess once again.
Watching the S14 and the various NH leagues, English Premiership’s faux improvements notwithstanding, things will not be sorted.
It’s been interesting to see that the Magners League has continued to be reffed the same way since the start of the season – with another cracking game this evening on better grounds.
One can’t help but think that the Big 5 are getting into a lather over SFA.
Wavell Wakefield said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:30am | Report comment
I would love it if we could beat them. Love it. He’s gone down in my estimation. Manchester United haven’t won this yet, I’d love it if we beat them… Sorry… I meant to say I’d love it if The Big C’s qualified for the HC. I’d love it.
pothale said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Uh? Are you talking soccer or rugby, WW? Spurs to complete the treble on the weekend – I have a punt on it already.
The Big Cs? You’ve lost me.
Wavell Wakefield said | April 22nd 2010 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
I’ve started quoting Kevin Keegan recently. I think it’s due to the temporary absence of plane fuel in the air. Must be affecting my brain chemistry. I’ve fallen completely out of love with Spurs. Great when they’re going well, but no Plan B. I’m also fed up of seeing ‘Arry on Sky News every single day.
Connacht are the Big Cs.
Justin said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Key statement here is “another cracking game this evening on BETTER grounds”.
IMO the NH needs to look at when they play their rugby. The more games played on firmer grounds the better.
klestical said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
Good point justin…ive always wondered why Gilbert also don’t make “super grippy” rugby balls. less knock ons/errors, etc.
Mals said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:37am | Report comment
For me the point scoring system still needs an overhaul. My preference would be for penalties & drop goals to go from 3 to 2 points. Or 2nd preference would be for tries to go to 6 points. At the moment 2 penalties being worth more than an unconverted try is not properly valuing the worth of try scoring.
Viscount Crouchback said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Think it through, Mals. If a try becomes three times as valuable as a penalty then what will defending teams do every time the opposition threatens to score a try? They will cheat and give away a penalty instead. Matches will feature more penalties and fewer tries, precisely the opposite of the intended effect. The IRB ought to leave the game well alone.
CraigB said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:58am | Report comment
But to follow it through VC, if they do cheat and give away more penalties, the value of the try will tempt more teams to go for them rather than take the reduced points on offer. If the oppn then continues to infringe yellow cards or penalty tries need to come out.
Brett McKay said | April 22nd 2010 @ 8:29am | Report comment
have to agree Viscount m’Lord. Point values should be left well alone. There was a good suggestion made on The Roar around 6 weeks ago – and my apologies to the suggestor, I’ve forgotten who you are – where the value of penality goals inside your own 22m be increased to 5pts (to properly penalise cynical infringements), but otherwise I wouldn’t change anything…
soapit said | April 22nd 2010 @ 11:51am | Report comment
or
Mals said | April 22nd 2010 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Viscount, that is what yellow cards are for. If there is continual cheating, ref gives these players a 10 minute break on the sideline.
sheek said | April 22nd 2010 @ 8:38am | Report comment
VC – Yes, agree entirely. Raising the value of the try further will be counterproductive. Especially since conceding a penalty is so easy to do.
I think the scoring values are just about right at the moment – 5 for try, two for conversion, 3 for a penalty or drop.
What needs to be done is encourage open play & restrict kickable penalties to deliberate offside & foul play. Also use the sin bin more judiciously. Technical fouls should induce the short-arm penalty more.
Go_the_Wannabe's said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Guys, have a look at what’s happened in Rugby League if you want a barometer for what will happen if they de-value penalty goals in Rugby Union.
It’s only one point in RL so if a team keeps getting penalties they keep going for the try. I believe the ref has the option of the sin bin for blatant and persistent infringments.
So…..please tell me what’s wrong with that system? It seems to work OK for them and results in less kicks, a faster game , less time wasted and more try’s……sounds like where we want to head doesn’t it?
Of course, there’s too much pride at stake to copy the Leaguies, so make it 2 points for penalty goal………or better yet 0.5 points to reflect the true value of a penalty shot!
reds fan said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:10am | Report comment
penalty goal is 2 points in league. one point for a drop goal.
Go_the_Wannabe's said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
True, but my point remains the same…..see kovana’s post below.
kovana said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Hmmm.. now that you put it that way..
True.. Maybe they can bring the PKs and DK’s to 2 points.. AND Refs can please pull out the Yellow card earlier.. Maybe on the 2nd penalty in the defending 22..
Go_the_Wannabe's said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:25am | Report comment
That’s the go!
soapit said | April 22nd 2010 @ 11:53am | Report comment
having 3 point pk and dg’s adds a dimension of strategy which league definitely doesnt have and is one dimensional in comparison.
i’d go yellow for every penalty in the 22 tho unless its clearly accidental. if its not accidental its professional and it deserves a binning.
Go_the_Wannabe's said | April 22nd 2010 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
If one dimensional is encouraging tries over DK’s and PG’s then that’s fine by me.
I do agree that if it isn’t accidental (and that would be very subjective) then it deserves a binning in the 22.
Maybe one warning and then binnings from then on.
Balthazaar said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:53am | Report comment
The unintended consequences: teams will be far more willing to infringe to prevent tries being scored if the value of tries is increased and/or penalties reduced.
Alders said | April 22nd 2010 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Ever heard of the sin bin for repeat infringements? Problem sorted.
Lee said | April 22nd 2010 @ 9:05am | Report comment
What about an instant sin binning of 2mins for an infringement in the 22m, would encourage teams to have go with their penalty…
Balthazaar said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Good thinking on that on Viscount!!
Jock M said | April 22nd 2010 @ 9:39am | Report comment
We now have Rugby League on dope-no passion-game has lost its soul.
Attacking side has all of the advantage.We now have a repetitive predictable mess.
Stop tackled player rolling over and placing the ball.
Give the defence full opportunity to compete for the ball.
The game is a farce and an even bigger one in the Southern Hemisphere.Rugby in Australia is on the way out.
I was a true Rugby player and supporter and I have nearly had enough.
If we are going to continue with the current rules then the name of the game should be changed because this rubbish is not Rugby.
kovana said | April 22nd 2010 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Give the defence full oppourtunity>?
Dude for the past years its been the defending team that the refs have been giving advantage too.. and what happens..
When a attacking team’s fullback, or whoever, from inside their own half, tries to run the ball and gets tackled.. the tackler gets nearly all the rights while the tackled player can do nothing but give away a penalty for holding on.. Boom.. Defending team gets a penalty in the attacking teams half and kicks the PK for 3 points…
Then to continue on… The attacking teams fullback, or whoever, gets the ball in their own half again….. What does he do no? Run with the ball again.. Nah… Kick it into the opponents half… Where hopefully they knock it on or if stupid enough, run it back from their own half so that they can now be penalized for holding on…. BUT more likely then not.. that team will kick it back into the opponents half.. and the cycle repeats itself until someone mis-kicks into touch on the full…
NOW IN 2010..
We have the refs giving the advantage to the attacking team.. BUT if the defence is smart.. They will now know.. Let the 1st tackler tackle.. Then let the 2nd incoming man try and rip the ball LEGALLY..
The defence still has rights dude.. as seen with the reds and some other teams.. They choose to poach at the right moment, as when the attacking support teams dont clean out the ruck fast enough..
HURRAY for rugby!!!
Whew.. one last point.. I wish scrum penalities would only result in a tap kick OR a kick to touch with the attacking team getting the throw in for easy yards.. NO PK at goal allowed for scrum penalties..
I hate it when in the scrum.. one of the guys pops up or is brought to ground and penalized, then the ensueing Kick at goal.. Argh.,.c’mon what is the weaker scrum to do? Just let their necks get snapped in half?
Pete said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Jock, the first clear sign that someone hasn’t palyed or supported a particular game is the statement ” I use to watch/play Rugby but I no long do because… ” It reminds me of the statement “I’m not racist but…”
The game is much more fun to play and entertaining to watch. Thankfully majority rules on this one and the authorities are moving along with it.
El Gamba said | April 22nd 2010 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
Ahh Jock, you must be a true purist.
Remember last year, Highlanders 6, Crusaders 0? Now that was a game… Defence was brilliant from both teams.
Working Class Rugger said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:08am | Report comment
The new law interpretations have rectified alot of the recent issues with the game. If anything the IRB should be looking to address the advatage laws. Currently they are too open to individual interpretation. That shouldn’t be the case. This isn’t a new arguement from me but considering we have the necessary technology the TMO could be used to sort out this issue once and for all.
Using a similar graphics system as to the NFL do to determine their downs to TV the advantage line say 5m from the infringement could be determined. As soon as the ball crosses the line the TMO can advise the ref that advantage has been played and the game continues. Could even introduce an additional 10 second countdown for the team to achieve advantage. Could be a little difficult at the amateur level but the assistant refs could be used to set the advatage and use a whistle or bell to let the ref know when its played.The other change would be if you kick possession away on advantage you lose it no matter the outcome.
Regarding the scrum all that’s needed to to change the instructions. Instead of the current touch/pause/ en-gage call they could just adjust it to youch/pause/pack. This has been brought up by posters previously and would fix alot of the timing issues that cause the majority of the scrum issues that currently exist.
Finally, leave the points system as is. There no reason to change that. However, considering they changed the kick off to a drop kick in the 90′s why not change penalties to drop kicks as well with a 20 secong time limit. Would certainly encourage teams to try their hand rather than go for goal unless directly in front. The 2min penalty would also be interesting to see trialled.
Working Class Rugger said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:45am | Report comment
The new SANZAR agreement has been announced. US$437 million over the next 5 years. A 35% increase of the previous deal. That’s not including the rights to the 2013 Lions Tour or rights for the Asian and Americas. These will be announced at a later date.
And for those who have Foxtel/Austar I am lead to believe from a usually reliable source that Europsort will be broadcasting the Korea vs Hong Kong A5N’s opner at 6pm on Saturday.
JF said | April 22nd 2010 @ 11:05am | Report comment
How did they do the deal without finalisation of the Pumas entry into a 4N, or has that been finalised?
True Tah said | April 22nd 2010 @ 11:12am | Report comment
This is great news, and I believe that Channel 9 are going to have a weekly highlights show of Super 14 – I just hope it is better than the footy show and it is shown at a more convenient time.
Maybe the rot is beginning the stop?
JF said | April 22nd 2010 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Re the highlights show, it will be interesting to see how it is put together. I hope they don’t let any of the leaguie crew near it, can’t think of many at 9 who knows anything about rugby – Andrew Slack? Nothing is more annoying than RL folk speaking on behalf of rugby – like they do on Offsiders.
El Gamba said | April 22nd 2010 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
They should just keep it like “extra time” on foxtel…
klestical said | April 22nd 2010 @ 10:25pm | Report comment
they reckon that secondary television deals (to americas/asia) are worth easily another 70 mill.
Jock M said | April 22nd 2010 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Pete,
You just going on believing that everything is okay by dismissing my comments.
Thousands agree with me on this -just look at the grandstands,the accounts of the various unions and so on.
What truly amazes me that people who never played the game but had an interest in it ask me what has happened and tell me that they do not watch anymore.
As I wrote,I am about to pull the pin on the whole thing.
I am thankful that I played the game when I did.
rugbyfuture said | April 22nd 2010 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
playing the game at amateur levels is much the same as ever, i dont see much of a difference between the game now and that 10 years ago other than alot more kicking.
kovana said | April 22nd 2010 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
Shows just how much of a true rugby fan you are..
Dude.. are you looking only at Aussie stands and kiwi stands?
How about looking at the stadiums for SA and around the 6 nations.. or last years test match between AB’s and azzuri… Its okay to lose a couple of thousand BUT Theres almost a couple of 100’000 to replace them.
In my opinion Rugby is on the downhill in Aus and NZ for the past 3 years.. Reasons.. Aus hasnt been doing good at super 14, test match and WC levels.. NZ.. haven’t won a WC in 23 years….
BUT their seems to be a slight change this year.. The average crowd attendance for the super 14 matches in Australia is around 17’400.
I bared last seasons horrors as well.. But being a true rugby fan i bit down hard,. and supported rugby still.. And now its paying off.. Since ‘fans’ like you have stopped watching this year.. If you would stop, relax and turned on the telly or went to play.. and actually ‘Watched’ this seasons games.. you will see there is a difference in attitude and also in the gameplay on the field….
Instead of being negative all the time.. Try looking at how to promote the game instead of trying to sink it.. since you ‘were once a rugby fan/player’
Sorry if i have said anything that may have offended anybody.
Bruce Ross said | April 22nd 2010 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
I’ll probably find myself in my customary situation of being out of step with everyone else, but I have a revolutionary suggestion with respect to Law changes:
The IRB should resolve to revisit and consider changes to the Laws no more often than once a decade and preferably less often.
The advantage of leaving the Laws unchanged is it gives the game a chance to evolve. Over time enterprising coaches and players work out strategies to exploit the Laws. In response referees adjust their interpretations of the Laws to try to ensure a fair contest.
Darwinian principles ensure that successful strategies are emulated and adopted widely. This in turn leads to the development and implementation of counter strategies. Thus there are ongoing cycles of innovation and counter-innovation.
By contrast, constant experimentation and adjustments to the Laws distort this evolutionary process. The development of our game is stifled because coaches and players no sooner adjust to one set of Laws than they are faced with another edition.
Law changes are invariably decided by committees, a notoriously inefficient means of reaching useful decisions but a very effective way of stifling creative thought.
rugbyfuture said | April 22nd 2010 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
thats a fair comment bruce, however i would think it is a time now to revisit the laws, get them streamlined for such a proposal, rewritten and clarified and then that process could happen.
El Gamba said | April 22nd 2010 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
I agree Bruce.
One of the things so likeable about the Reds when they played the Bulls is the way that a strategy was developed that played to the Reds strengths and exploited the Bulls weaknesses (chiefly mobility but some beautifully executed scrums and lineouts at key moments). They then went out and executed the plan around the laws as exist. The interest now comes as they play the Stormers and a different strategy must be developed around the Stormers (and vice versa). It is this kind of strategy that makes Rugby so interesting (and why they play it in heaven) not the strategy that develops when a team just trys to “play the rules” as cleverly as possible to minimise risk. I believe that there are actually very few coaches in the S14 at present that are coaching this way.
The longer you leave the rules as they are (almost regardless of what they they are – within reason!) the game becomes less about exploiting interpretations and more about PLAYING RUGBY!
Bruce Ross said | April 22nd 2010 @ 7:16pm | Report comment
Thanks, El.
By coincidence I bumped into Jim McKay yesterday. He was down in Sydney for a class in his Masters degree in sports coaching.
He discussed the game plan the Reds used against the Bulls. He is a very modest and likeable bloke.
My observation is that the coaches with non-inflated egos are usually the deepest thinkers about our game.