We need a local FA Cup, but it must be done well
By Davidde Corran, 30 Apr 2010 Davidde Corran is a Roar Expert
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There’s been some well-written prose in the last few months on why Football Federation Australia not just should, but MUST adopt a national cup competition.
As this discussion has been going on for some time now, I’m not going to re-list those arguments here, but I think there is hope that FFA will start looking at this idea again.
I say that because the main reason FFA have continued to turn a deaf ear to the public’s calls for cup football is that they’ve been otherwise occupied with their 2018/22 World Cup bid and I think that may be coming to an end.
Ben Buckley has been forced into turning his attention back onto the A-League again following the collapse of Queensland’s two expansion clubs.
With the most logistically demanding part of the World Cup bid now wrapping up, once the bid book is submitted, it all comes down to political wrangling, FFA employees should have time on their hands to work on matters closer to home.
Lord knows we need them to.
So with there being every chance that FFA will look at the idea of a national cup competition again over the coming months, I say to them: Beware!
Right now I’m in Washington D.C. to interview Danny Allsopp and Lisa De Vanna. On Wednesday evening, I had the pleasure of attending RFK Stadium where Allsopp’s DC United defeated FC Dallas 4-2 in the US Open Cup.
All I can say is, what a disaster. There were a pitiful 2,000 fans in attendance, almost no media presence, and not even those 6 goals could save this game.
It had me thinking that FFA must ensure that the creation of any similar competition in Australia doesn’t turn out the same way.
From looking closely at the main factors that led to the poor crowd and general disinterest in Wednesday night’s game, we can learn a lot.
First of all, the scheduling was all wrong.
While FFA insist on not allowing the A-League to clash with the other football codes, mid-week football will be inevitable. That’s not what led to a drop of around 15,000 on DC United’s average attendance last night, however.
The reason for the empty stadium was the Washington Capitols were playing game seven in the playoffs at the same time.
Considering that there was Cup football on the night before, the question is, why didn’t US Soccer change the fixture to Tuesday?
Furthermore, both teams put out weakened sides. There just isn’t the prestige in competing in the early stages of a knockout cup competition when you’re also battling in your league. A similar problem is leading to the corrosion of interest in England’s apparently “magical” FA Cup.
FFA must ensure that clubs who are in the tournament want to win it.
Even more alarming for the state of the US Open Cup is the lack of a national TV deal. Even more so than back home, in the US if your sport isn’t on TV, then it might as well not exist.
Without any television presence you can’t reach out to the mainstream.
As many on this site have already discussed, a lack of Free to Air TV exposure is one of the main problems facing the A-League. Not only must a cup competition avoid that trap, it can help to rectify the A-League’s lack of presence on FTA.
Now, despite these warnings, I’m a big supporter of an FFA Cup. I believe it’s imperative for the growth of the game. Furthermore, any significant point of difference to the NRL and AFL should be exploited to its fullest and this is one of those opportunities.
However, Ben Buckley, if you’re going to do this, do it properly.
I’d hate to see FFA muck up a perfectly good idea like they have done with A-League expansion.
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April 30th 2010 @ 1:04pm
phil said | April 30th 2010 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
To bring more prestige and credibility to the cup it be should named after one of the following below. They could even present the Cup to the winning team. Imagine having prince william here at a Cup Final.
Queen’s Cup
Prime Minister’s Cup
Governor General’s Cup
April 30th 2010 @ 1:25pm
whiskeymac said | April 30th 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
God saves the Queen but the DG will never get past the first round.
May 3rd 2010 @ 2:21pm
mahony said | May 3rd 2010 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
well may we say…
April 30th 2010 @ 2:23pm
Adolf said | April 30th 2010 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
Look up your history of Australian soccer. They had the ‘Australia Cup’ knockout competition. Lasted about 6 odd years back in the 1960s. The various state league teams from across Australia played off for it. Small attendances because supporters prefered the local derby matches.
Think about what you would have with this competition. A bunch of semi pro teams against the handful of fully pro sides.
Will it improve the standard of play? No.
Will it get large attendances and create interest? No.
TV interest? No.
You risk injury to your pros, if you would even risk them.
We have the ACL, that is better. Even in England, the FA Cup has plummeted in interest in the last 20 odd years. It kept up interest in the 1980s because English sides were banned from Europe.
April 30th 2010 @ 3:00pm
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
How can you compare the 60s to now? The media is completely different. Values are different. Demographics are different.
I agree that a cup competition would not improve the standard of play. However, it would definitely create interest for the supporters of the state league clubs involved. A good proportion of these people never attend A-League games. So this would introduce new people to the A-League. They may even enjoy it and start attending A-League games. It’s similar Adelaide’s policy of letting members bring 3 friends to Friday night games for free. An increase in first time customers increases the overall number of repeat customers (simple marketing).
Have you ever attended a state league game? So of these state league clubs pull some decent crowds, especially in Sydney and Melbourne. This number would be more if the chance of playing an A-League team in the FFA Cup was at stake. Even higher if they were playing an A-League team.
You can bet your bottom dollar that Fox would want the TV rights for the latter rounds of FFA Cup. The early rounds played at local state league grounds don’t have to be televised. Gives the locals more incentive to pay their $10 and go watch it live.
April 30th 2010 @ 3:52pm
Adolf said | April 30th 2010 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
They have state league soccer on Ch. 31, South Melb Hellas beat Hume City the other day in front of about 1500 people
7 – 0. I would have been one of maybe 100 people that watched it on the tv, so I seriously do not believe Fox would be interested.
What people forget is England is a different culture to Australia. They have 92 fully professional clubs in the top 4 tiers, then you have the semi pro leagues.
Not EVERY club in England gets to enter the FA Cup, it is not open slather. You get down to certain levels of the pyramid.
What we have in Oz is our top level is about League 2 level(3rd tier England) and the rest is way below that, basically pub league, park level stuff.
What is the point of this exercise? I do not see the attraction. You have a finals knockout in the ALeague already, whilst in England they have first past the post in the league, so no one big climax match which the FA Cup takes care of.
Another thing, in Italy, the Italian Cup is basically a joke now. It is like the NAB Cup in AFL. Very similar.
The League Cup in England(only open to the 4 league comps), is basically reknown as the Worthless Cup, you play your reserves in it.
April 30th 2010 @ 4:04pm
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
Exactly, they could 1500 to watch two state league teams. They would have got more if it was a state league team playing an A-League team. No ground cost because state league teams already lease their grounds from the city council.
And, if you read what I wrote, you would have realised that I said Fox would be interested in the latter stages of the FFA Cup i.e. when they are playing a A-League stadiums. Local grounds don’t have the facilities to broadcast games. The latter stages of the cup would involve A-League teams so their would be roughly the same interest as the A-League.
May 3rd 2010 @ 12:57am
Rocco Siffredi said | May 3rd 2010 @ 12:57am | Report comment
So you risk full time pros against guys with chips on their shoulders or wanting to get a scalp under their belt?
They would be beltings, the state leaguers would run out of puff after 20 odd minutes. They won’t have the endurance to match the pros.
June 10th 2010 @ 12:35pm
Dan said | June 10th 2010 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Just look at the way the Coup de France works…
random draw and one-off matches and it forces higher-ranked clubs to always play as the away team when drawn against lower-league opposition.
never underestimate the determination of the underdog coupled with the difficulty of playing at a community ground…
one of the big boys always ends up winning in the end, but the amatures always cause a number of upsets (as opposed to just one a year in the FA cup), because the system is set up to help them. yeah they’re not fully pro (or even semi pro in some cases as the coupe de france is open to all clubs in all of france) but the thought of bordeax or lyon showing up at the local ground is enough… and to get a good draw helps bankroll the clubs for years…
i think it would be a good thing, now that the a-league is established and the old NSL clubs’ dreams of making it in the A-league are pretty much dead, it would be a good way for the FFA reach out to the communities and the grass roots.
yeah they might be only getting 1500 to games, but those 1500 people are the ones who coach our juniors, or are the parents of future socceroos. They probably all go to their local a-league games… we should start looking at how the a-league can start helping out the clubs from the grassroots to top of the state league bracket
April 30th 2010 @ 3:00pm
Sam said | April 30th 2010 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
The problem is the ACL has not taken off in Australia. The Chamions League appeals to the English over the FA Cup because the English teams do so well. If ever the EPL was to lose it’s crown as the top league and the English sides faired poorly, I think you will find that the FA Cup would make a resurgence in England.
April 30th 2010 @ 3:57pm
whiskeymac said | April 30th 2010 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
ACL did well, and is still doing well, in Adelaide. all the other teams bar one or two performances (Urawa SFc for example) have shown up the teams. its not that the ACL wont ever catch on, its just we need the teams participating in it to do better.
but otherwise, yes =)
April 30th 2010 @ 4:03pm
Sam said | April 30th 2010 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
In my opinion it has caught on in Adelaide because they are the only team to get past the round robin stages. It will do well in any place in Australia once people know that a team is a chance to actually win the thing (and play in the CWC) . The problem is apart from Adelaide we haven’t got close yet.
April 30th 2010 @ 3:21pm
chook said | April 30th 2010 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
Fair point,
maybe a FFA cup with out the A- League teams to start with 16 places
3 x VIC
3 x NSW
2 x QLD
2 x SA
2 x WA
1 x TAS
1 x NZ
1 x Canberra
1 x NT or play off for the 4th NSW and VIC team
All in a hat pull first name pulled out get the home match.
winner go back in the hat and till the final 2.
final is a game warmer match prior to a A- League game
Winner get the promotion to the A -League.
The winner of the FFA cup get to play in the A- League, State League and automatic entry into next years FFA Cup
The A- League has one space only for a State League Team. You are subsided by the FFA and get money for a draw and a win nothing for a loss.
its an idea but it might under mine the A – League crowds.
Lots of hole in the idea but worth talking about
April 30th 2010 @ 3:53pm
Football said | April 30th 2010 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
The State league teams have youth teams from 13′s to 20′s, in NSW across three divisions including promotion & relegation, we need these kids to get involved in the A league & this would be the way to do it.
It will improve the standard of the state leagues & in turn provide future players for the A league as players dream of the chance to play against the A league teams in the club colours. Remember some of these boys have been with these clubs from the age of 6.
I refer you to the Sydney FC trials when 3 & a half thousand turned up on a rainy night against Apia & five thousand turned up against Sutherland. These are great revenue raisers for the state league teams & gets the community involved.
April 30th 2010 @ 5:27pm
Sam said | April 30th 2010 @ 5:27pm | Report comment
Great point Football. These are examples of what community football is all about. Hopefully Sydney FC also targets the juniors of these areas and entices them with deals to attend a-league games. FFA and the clubs should be going to the communites. Not waiting for the community to come to them. Be proactive, not reactive.
Problem is we need people running the game who are good at these grassroots type things. The other sports just need the communities to come to them as they have the tradition and history. Slogans and TV ads will work for them. It won’t work for us. We need to go to the communities and ask for support. Our advantage is player numbers. We need the FFA and clubs to get their hands dirty.
April 30th 2010 @ 4:21pm
hoodooguru said | April 30th 2010 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
The FFA Cup should replace the finals series. The business end of the FFA Cup (semi finals + final) will take place after the A-League season. Both cup purists and Aussie semi-finals lovers should be happy with this.
A League teams should not be involved until the final rounds. Eg 12 A league teams will feature in the round of 16. State League clubs can fight out for the remaining 4 spots, perhaps using existing cup/league competitions. This may make state league comps a bit more interesting for players and supporters alike.
Perhaps the first few FFA Cups should not feature state league clubs at all – just to fine tune it.
The preliminary rounds should be during the season, ideally on weekends instead of match rounds, although the A-Leaguse is already having difficulty fitting its season in, so this might not be possible.
The home side will be team that is placed higher on A-League ladder after all teams have played each other twice (home and away), which is when the first rounds featuring A – League teams will be. This may make for some interesting mid-season games, with teams trying to get higher than their cup opponents. The home teams for the semi finals will depend on ladder position at the end of the season, which may mean that league positions down the ladder will matter. Perhaps these games can also be seeded.
The FFA Cup will be televised just like the finals series is televised now. the games involving state league clubs provide a bit of novelty value. If there is a game involving state league club vs state league club, this might have to be moved to a more TV friendly ground, but there would still be interest.
The winner of the FFA Cup will get an ACL place, like the current winner of the finals series. If the winner of the FFA cup is a state league club, I’d love to see that club play in Asia, but I suspect that the AFC might have restrictions that will not allow it.
June 10th 2010 @ 12:42pm
Dan said | June 10th 2010 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
i have already said that i like the coupe de france model where the lower ranked team gets the home advantage always (except for the final), but you’re on the right track…
also, even in europe, i think that CL/EL sides HAVE to be in the top flight, hence no portsmouth in the EL next year, despite chelsea already being in the CL… worked out well for LFC though
in the FFA cup, you’d just have the ACL spot go to the runner up in the league if the FFA cup winner is a Non-AL club…
also, are we going to have NZ clubs that aren’t the nix in there?
April 30th 2010 @ 4:38pm
Timmuh said | April 30th 2010 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
The big question I have regarding any FFA Cup, or whatever name, is one of club support. At the moment, it is possible to support a state league club and an A-League club. What happens when these are in the same competition? Will being forced to choose between the two eventually lead to a drop in support for one or the other?
Its less the case in England and other nations, where Association Football is the number one sport. Generally speaking, a Woking fan is not also a Chelsea fan, for example. It may be that a cup can only include A-League teams, or that a cup will need to wait for promotion/relegation to become a reality in Australia, if it ever can; in order to stop forcing people to choose between their teams from different levels.
April 30th 2010 @ 5:21pm
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
Not totally correct. Most people that support lower league clubs tend to have an EPL side that they also follow. In the event that the lower league side came up against the EPL side in a cup game, they would support their local lower league side. I don’t see how this would be any different here. I know I would support Taringa Rovers if they were playing the Brisbane Roar. However, I still attend most of the Roar’s home games. In fact, it’s easier to do here because the seasons for local football and national football are different.
June 10th 2010 @ 12:44pm
Dan said | June 10th 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
although, as the dominance of the EPL grows, and the clubs participating change so infrequently, more and more people have “their local team” and “their premier league team” this is also tied to the fact that people cant afford to go to see the EPL sides more than once a year anymore…
April 30th 2010 @ 4:41pm
AndyRoo said | April 30th 2010 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
I don’t see the benefits to overcoming all these problems just to replace something that’s already popular.
April 30th 2010 @ 5:22pm
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
It’s not about replacing something that’s popular. It’s about connecting with more football fans who currently have no real affiliation with the A-League. Such a connection could lead higher A-League attendances in the future.
April 30th 2010 @ 6:00pm
AndyRoo said | April 30th 2010 @ 6:00pm | Report comment
I would like too see a model that works without replacing finals. I don’t think it has to be at the end of the season, a pre season version or one designed to keep the ACL competing teams fresh would be good. The later would be interesting as clubs tend to shed players overseas at that time (and not pick up imports replacements until later) so more of the NYL players would be involved.
Something that finished on Boxing day or New Years eve would also be a winner for mine. No need to get rid of finals which sell themselves and 5 years in already have some tradition.
a pre season one where the final was played one week before the A league season (in October) could be a good kick off for the start of the A league season and signal the end of most state leage comps. The other codes are in grand final mode which hogs the media but also means their are is lack of live footy available.
April 30th 2010 @ 5:33pm
Sam said | April 30th 2010 @ 5:33pm | Report comment
A-league at the moment is popular with who?
May 1st 2010 @ 9:02am
AndyRoo said | May 1st 2010 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Melbourne and Wellington
April 30th 2010 @ 4:46pm
Eamonn Flanagan said | April 30th 2010 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
FFA Cup? Only if it has a prize of ACL, other wise forget it.
Play the final, every year….in the capital Canberra.
Big clubs, the 12 of them, enter at round of 16. End of story, no if’s no buts!
April 30th 2010 @ 5:49pm
Victer said | April 30th 2010 @ 5:49pm | Report comment
There are too many rounds already with too few quality players. You wannna add more? People have to stop thinking we live in Germany or something. We have multiple sports and the a-league has to find its niche. There is simply not enough support for all these initiatives and people don’t even attend week night a-league well as is unless its summer. The a-league needs to simplify not become big and more complex.
May 1st 2010 @ 6:12am
rovingto2011 said | May 1st 2010 @ 6:12am | Report comment
every country has multiple sports… football has to start doing its own thing even if on a smaller scale to the rugby codes or aussie rules. Cup competitions matter to us in the football world.
May 3rd 2010 @ 1:53am
Harry said | May 3rd 2010 @ 1:53am | Report comment
Won’t work in Oz, we don’t have enough quality teams. It will be over in 3 weeks. It is basically the NAB Cup.