The Origin series deserves its own weekends
Roar Guru
By Steve Kaless, 24 May 2010 Steve Kaless is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- NRL, Rugby League, State Of Origin
This isn’t just a moan from a bloke looking down the barrel of getting a big goose egg next to his tips for the weekend, after all statistically it is just as hard to get every tip wrong as it is to get every tip right.
But as I watched an under strength Dragons succumb to the Raiders I was left wondering whether it was right for all these sides to be putting out teams missing their big guns.
Yes, I know, I know, if you don’t want to lose players over the rep season don’t sign rep players. I believe it myself and used it on Friday.
But would everything work better if the Origin series was held on a stand- alone weekend?
I know there are a number of issues to work through regarding the draw and fitting in the club matches, but I think it’s a discussion worth having. After all even Elton John knows that Saturday night is alright for fighting.
Should Origin, one of the highlights of the rugby league calendar, be on a Wednesday?
Should players who go through be asked to back up just days later?
And in these days when everything has a price and everyone talks about the TV deal, has the question been asked as to whether the State of Origin series would be worth more if played on (and therefore broadcast on) a Saturday?
I must admit the pressure of the deadline means I haven’t even made up my own mind before posing this question, but I know the one argument I won’t buy is “it’s always been on a Wednesday”. Surely that something has a tradition of being mid week is the poorest reason to keep it there.
Maybe Origin has finally grown to the point where by it deserves its own weekend/s.
Looking for a quick solution for the club matches would be starting the season a week earlier and running it a week longer. And given how abbreviated the rounds are before an Origin, I’m not sure what we are missing.
Or hell, cut a few games. The clubs don’t play everyone twice anyway so it can potentially trimmed more.
The Origin period is always known for tossing odd results (perhaps something I should have factored in when making my weekly tips!). While this often is seen as a good thing, as some battlers get some unexpected wins and the gun sides are forced to roll out the kids, you could also argue that enough is already done to level the playing field, and a further leg up for the weaker sides is the last thing we need.
In the end maybe all we should hope for is that clubs continue to take this oddness on the chin and don’t complain about rivals for semi finals spots getting a free kick by taking on sides missing large chunks of their best team.
At least the Tigers all seem to be on speaking terms again.
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mds1970 said | May 24th 2010 @ 7:44am | Report comment
They tried it in 2001, with the Origin games played on Sunday nights. That was the series where Queensland brought Alan Langer back from England to pull off an unlikely series win.
But the general feeling was that having no rugby league on until Sunday night for three weekends of the year was too much of a leg-up for other sports; particularly AFL. Also Channel 9 were keen to go back to Wednesdays – the TV ratings weren’t as good on Sunday nights. And as TV viewing figures overall aren’t as good on Saturdays as Wednesdays, with more people doing other things, I can’t see that Channel 9 would be willing to sacrifice their winning ratings.
Also, having three stand-alone weekends meant starting the season three weeks earlier, in February. Which was considered too hot, and saw the start of the season clashing with the cricket.
Steve Kaless said | May 24th 2010 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Thanks for that background mds.
Also, unlike some others I’m not all over ratings figures but you are right if Wednesday beats the weekends then there is no way Channel Nine will go for it.
No question ratings rule Channel 9. Example 4,677, 207: Origin is delayed in WA until 9.30pm to make way for the Mentalist. The Mentalist! I can’t comfirm whether 9.30pm is billed as “the special time”.
Forgetmenot said | May 24th 2010 @ 8:16am | Report comment
When i was young and first heard about SoO i asked which which weekend it was on. When i got a reply that it was a Wednesday i was quite literally very confused.
How could the supporters let their best players play their club games when they have played a SoO match 3 days before, thus giving the opposition a HUGE advantage?
oikee said | May 24th 2010 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Mate, come on, sour grapes. I picked the sharkies, the Knights were missing Gidley and Mullens, tigers were specials. Souths were missing 2 big forwards against a warriors pack. Mind you they only fell over the line. The raiders were specials also, mate, come on, do they have to spell it out to you. The dragons have only beaten the raiders once in the last 11 games. ???
Steve, more study lest whinging mate.
As for origin, love wednesday nites, dont blame me that ANZ is a crap stadium. Suncorp could sellout 3 games any nite of the week. Bring it on, Queenslanders, get ready to suck it up. Specials.
Brett McKay said | May 24th 2010 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Steve, I’ve got the solution to this, and it solves MDS’ early season start problem too. And, I can even shorten the whole season. I first aired this idea before City-Country last year, and it came up again the other week. In short, the solution is:
- NRL comp shortened to 22 weeks (from 26 now), with two pools of 8. Everyone plays everyone once, and those in their pool twice (for an 18 team comp, it becomes three pools of six).
- SOO on Sundays, with a general club bye
- the Friday nights before SOO see NSW City-Country before the Sydney game; QLD City-Country before the Brisbane game, and the two winners play for something like the Beetson-Harragan Cup.
22 week season + 3 Origin weekends + 4 week Finals = 29 weeks. Current season is 30 weeks….
(http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/05/04/making-city-country-mean-something/)
oikee said | May 24th 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Nice try Brett, you do realise that city country is a origin selection game. ? If we did things your way, it would be another joke and embarressment for league.
I like what Gus Gould has mentioned, leave everything alone until we get some smart people running the game before we change anything.
As for shortening the season? Mate, come-on, we are trying to grow the t/v deal, not lose money. One guy mentioned a longer season to help grow the pie.
I would propose the under 20 comp to become the under 21 comp, this would give the youngsters a extra year to build into good players for the NRL. We are looking very weak once you take out our good players for origin, just ask Steve.
Also, i think you need to be looking at a 18 team comp. So, 2 groups of 9 teams, now with each group you have one team each not required for a game each week-end, so that team plays the odd team out in the other group, so they overlap,
Now bare with me, they play each other twice, this makes 16 games, plus each team plays the other group team twice, that makes for 25 rounds. So every team has played each other twice, we free up one weekend to play test matches and the city country game before origin. Keep origin on Wednesday.
It sounds complicated, but its not. I just worked this out in 2 minutes. Get a pad, write down 2 groups of 9 teams, have one team play the other 8 teams, makes 8 games, the odd team is playing a team from the other pool on that weekend, so thats 9 games each week-end for 16 weeks, now you add another 9 weeks for each team to play the other group once. So you end up with 25 weeks, every team has played each other twice.
Complicated, but once on paper, is the perfect solution to a 25 round game for 18 teams, to each play each other twice, and we free-up one weekend.
Your 2 pool idea is spot-on.
Brett McKay said | May 24th 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Oiks, I think you need to check your maths there. In 25 weeks, your two pools don’t play each other twice at all, they play their pool twice (16 games) and then the other pool once only (9 games). If the 16 teams currently can’t play all teams twice in 26 weeks, I’m not sure how you thought you could do in 25 weeks. And with two extra teams!! To play all teams twice, you’d need a 34 week season before the finals!! the next season would have to start the weekend before the Grand Final!! What was that you said, “nice try”??
And honestly, when was the last time City-Country was a genuine Origin trial??
My plan actually adds meaning to that game, and puts it back in a live timeslot where it belongs, by making it the chance for fringe Origin and up-and-comers the chance to play rep footy, and maybe win a series along the way. And, it involves both states. And there’s no reason why someone staring in a City-Country game couldn’t be called into Origin later in the series, so there’s more incentive again. It would probably make it a more genuine Origin trial…
Steve Kaless said | May 24th 2010 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
I actually think that looks pretty good Brett, although I do think the City v Country still needs to be viewed in some way as an Origin trial. Maybe some work on that.
You should submit the “McKay report” to the NRL. Afterall if Mr McIntyre gets the finals named after him why not?
Brett McKay said | May 24th 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Ideally Steve, City-Country should be an Origin trial, I agree completely, but as I said to Oikee above, that hasn’t been the case (really) for a good period of time now anyway. At least by playing it in conjunction with an Origin weekend, and by bringing Qld teams into a “series” it creates some proper meaning around those games too. It could become a genuine second-tier rep fixture which could reward rising stars while still allowing those on the fringe to push for Origin selection later in the series.
The “McKay Report”, I like it!! I did send this off last year to the Sunday Roast, but it didn’t make the table (at least not while I was watching), so perhaps it’s time to resubmit. Any other avenues of getting this through somewhere?
hutch said | May 24th 2010 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
i would be happy to never see the city country game ever again. it is not, and hasnt been for years and origin trial! the only way i see it as being meaningful is by making it an under 23′s game, or something similar. im all for rep football, it is my passion, but this game is stuck in the past, irrelevant and has had its day.
oikee said | May 24th 2010 @ 8:27am | Report comment
The best part of origin is the fact that teams lose there best players. It shows how much depth and how good your team really is going. Have alook at the knights, nothing, absolutely nothing without Gidley and Mullen.
Parra, lost without Hayne,
Dragons, missing eight 1st grade players.
Rabbits, should have won really. ‘
There are some weak cattle out there lads, very weak cattle. Mind you, the game i really enjoyed was the under 20 toyota cup game, warriors verse souths, some really good talent coming through for the warriors. Next week-end, they play the tigers, will be a good game if televised.
Gob Bluth said | May 24th 2010 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Knights had nothing? They were the better team for the first half. How can you complain about weak first grade teams and then enjoy Toyota Cup, its a bunch of gym junkies playing touch footy.
Don't Start me on this Again said | May 24th 2010 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Yeah – lets punish teams with Origin players – the way Origin is set out is a fraud and ruins club football. The Origin should be played after the season is finished. Same time frame as the World Cup a few years ago – everyone wins.
It is a such a logical move that most league people would not get it – October is a nothing month in sport in Australia – but you all know that, right?
That way you get a proper league season and an intense Origin season over three weeks and players are picked on real form .
hutch said | May 24th 2010 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
there is no time post nrl season. the international games are on then and we have a set schedule for the next 5 years! mid season is fine for origin, but there should be a mid season nrl break. the season always has a lull around this time anyway. the standard of games drop, crowds and ratings drop as all interest is focused on the origin series.
Springs said | May 24th 2010 @ 9:24am | Report comment
No point, change it to a Sunday night and watch everyone say change it back, again. Grass is always greener…
wallythefly said | May 24th 2010 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Half-round byes, pressure on players backing up, watching your side without its stars before an Origin game and unfairness on good teams who lose the most players – to me all very compelling reasons to put it stand alone
i’d have internationals: tonga, fiji, samoa, PNG; playing a three week four nations tournament during it this three week origin period. it would be great to include nz and england internationals too, three weeks of stand along rep footy
Steve Kaless said | May 24th 2010 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
I believe that the Pacific Islands Cup is again slated for during the Four Nations this year, as a “Don’t Start me on this Again” remarked october has nothing (although I’m not sure I’d go that far).
Certainly don’t disagree with the first half of your argument either.
M1tch said | May 24th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Will never be on a Saturday night as the other codes will be on as well. Sunday night is basically same as Wednesday as people still gotta goto work/school the next day
More I think about it Wednesday is good, we just need no club footy the weekend before – have a international weekend of the pac islands and nz playing each other
hutch said | May 24th 2010 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
id be happy with this as well!
Col the Bear said | May 24th 2010 @ 10:46am | Report comment
I guess more a concern is what steven humphries is putting up..about a 32 round comp..Does this mean in his opinion there would be no trial matches.. and if they decided to add trial matches probably another 4 weeks on top of that 32 weeks. plus the test matches at the end. like it or not clubs need trial matches..there is also talk about a pre season comp.. so add another 4 weeks.. so now we’re up to over 40 weeks of league..gees there must be some how we can squeeze another few weeks out of our players to make it a 52 week comp..
also another thing is what phil franks and bob fulton are putting up about a hybrid game..do we really need this.. i don’t think so!!
Sorry Steve strayed from your article..(hey but the Bears got a win up on the weekend finally against 3rd place.. here come the Bears!!)