
Israel Folau speaks to the media during a conference announcing that he will switch codes and join Greater Western Sydney AFL club at Blacktown Olympic Park.
Behind the smoke and mirrors of Israel Folau’s defection to the AFL is the simple fact that the Greater Western Sydney franchise (and the AFL?) will reportedly fork out $6 million for four years for a player who hasn’t played a game of competitive Aussie Rules in his life. This is a marketing ploy of the highest order.
After all, it’s an awful lot of money for a speculative prospect and even the AFL and the GWS franchise couldn’t disguise in yesterday’s press conference that the signing of Folau is more about marketing than it is potential.
Let’s put aside the question of potential for the time being anyway, for even GWS and Gold Coast FC won’t know how Folau and Karmichael Hunt will adapt until they are tested in match conditions for their learning curves are steep as they come into the game as total outsiders.
But the money on the table, considering the huge question mark over potential, is excessive and, in my opinion, bordering on the absurd.
When the pay packet of Gary Ablett, Chris Judd and the other greats of the game is overshadowed by a rookie, then the current players have every right to complain about the sum awarded for such a marketing exercise and the AFL’s role in it all.
Brisbane Lions coach Michael Voss cut to the heart of the debate when he said in relation to the $3 million deal Gold Coast FC have with Karmichael Hunt: “I genuinely hope (Hunt) makes it but the fact we’re adjudicating the project on how many articles he gets in the paper as opposed to how many games he plays in the AFL then I don’t get that.”
The fact that this opinion is so widely held, even within the AFL, should be a concern for them, but the fact is they aren’t disguising it.
Andrew Demetriou took the unusual step of writing to teams and players to justify the AFL’s role in this poaching, arguing: “Our development team headed by David Matthews has judged that both players will be invaluable in promoting our game as a viable career option for first choice athletes in Queensland and New South Wales in particular and to communities which currently do not have a strong connection to our game in both states.”
It’s interesting to note that the AFL’s recruitment manager, David Matthews, featured in the GWS press conference yesterday – and again the AFL isn’t hiding its role in all this.
When Matthews defended the recruitment to difficult questions from the Sydney press, he interestingly used the term “we” – another indication of the AFL’s hand in GWS affairs.
We saw this with the exorbitant draft concessions, also.
The AFL is playing an integral role in its expansion franchises; a key role in direction and influence and that should have neutrals and rival teams’ fans concerned. The clubs’ cultures are being manufactured by the code itself – condemning their ability to develop their own culture in their local communities and perpetuating the idea that these clubs are soulless creations manufactured for fiscal considerations only.
The perception of the AFL’s undue influence isn’t going down well in other codes either, which are being targeted by an invading behemoth, and an Australian public who doesn’t appreciate bullies.
Folau, for his part, was hardly convincing when selling his interest in AFL – watching and liking a couple of games and all but acknowledging he has the option to return to rugby league when it’s all said in done is hardly reassuring for prospective GWS fans, and it failed to convince us that this was anything but a marketing ploy.
But will this marketing ploy pay any dividends?
Obviously it is contingent on the ability of Folau and Hunt to adapt and play a meaningful on-field role for their clubs. Having them in the stands won’t do much good.
But the AFL’s strategy of winning over fans through such poaching and the media interest it receives is flawed on two fronts.
Firstly, the notion of poaching star players as a way of winning over fans is a fallacy.
This isn’t motorsport in which we have favourite drivers who we follow as they swap teams and categories around the world.
The NRL, like the AFL, has community and club based support.
Support is built around a lifelong connection with a club, not a player. Players come and go, but it’s the clubs that are loved. It’s why a club like Richmond can still pull 50,000-plus crowds dispute woeful performances and zero star power. It’s the club that matters.
The NRL survived when Wendell Sailor, Lote Tuqiri and co headed to Union, and they survived when Willie Mason, Greg Bird and co disgraced themselves with their off-field behaviours.
It survived – diminished in popularity or not – because at the heart of west Sydney and the code are clubs like Parramatta, Penrith and co.
And their connection to local areas and histories is something the AFL cannot poach and override by signing up some of their brightest stars.
It also assumes that rugby league fans will suddenly convert to Aussie Rules.
But again, fans have grown up with their clubs and codes, which won’t change with the movement of a few stars (not to mention the anti-AFL feeling that still exists in many parts of NSW).
There was no mass movement of fans from the NRL to Union when the ARU was poaching earlier this decade because the fanbases of the relative codes are more ingrained in us than that.
This will only take generations to change – if it can at all – and I fear the AFL is doing more damage by alienating itself from the western Sydney natives with its aggression to their local code, making it harder for them in their long-term goal of winning over future generations to Aussie Rules.
Which leads us to my second point, which is that the notion of poaching star players as a way of giving the code and franchises immediate respect and positive recognition is flawed.
Not all publicity is good publicity, and while the AFL and GWS would have been delighted at the storm the announcement caused in the press (free-to-air networks cutting to live coverage of the presser!), what of the thoughts of the NRL loving population who are GWS’s potential audience?
Is the best way for GWS to endear themselves in the hearts and minds of these people by appearing to be invading conquistadors pillaging clubs of their beloved game (NRL)?
The media in Sydney is helping portray this notion of victimhood, as evidenced by the line of questioning in yesterday’s press conference from the cities press hounds, and the AFL is not helping by its integral role in the poaching and its aggressive overtones through its wads of cash.
The Daily Telegraph screamed “Stunt Man – the AFL’s marketing tool” on their website last night, and that perception of marketing over substance is going to stick.
Clubs are about passion, commitment and grassroots connection, not acts of bluster and players with questionable commitment and hunger for the club, let alone the code.
GWS coach Kevin Sheedy is a master of spin, and he gave one of his greatest performances in yesterday’s presser when detailing how the club will reach out and win over the hearts and minds in the area.
It’s a long-term goal, but even he couldn’t convince us that this ploy will help that development.
The AFL isn’t messing around with GWS, but the approach is flawed.
An initial and fleeting bang for their buck isn’t going to help the empire conquer its final frontier.
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James said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:00am | Report comment
“The clubs’ cultures are being manufactured by the code itself – condemning their ability to develop their own culture in their local communities and perpetuating the idea that these clubs are soulless creations manufactured for fiscal considerations only.”
SPOT ON!
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:50am | Report comment
whilst this description might be totally apt to an overnight manufactured club……such as Clive Palmers soulless GCU or MelbHeart in Melbourne…..
….the organic growth of GC17 and GSW over a 2 year lead in period via first an under 18s side containing a good amount of local kids being given every opportunity to be part of the ‘main team’ a couple of years hence – - is pretty well about creating a local accent to the club culture,
and developing the first elements of the club based not around highly paid ‘fly ins’, but, rather – - as a ‘teaching club’ and a nurturing club,
how well that can be sustained as the club transitions first to a VFL side and then an AFL side it another question.
WIth K.Hunt and I.Folau you guys are focussing far too much on a single element.
ANd consider this – - because of the 2 year ‘organic’ growth phase – - where most people ANYWHERE are pretty unaware of who Rex Liddy, Stanis Susuve or David Swallow are – - the role that both K.Hunt and I.Folau will play as major promotional tools is massive. However, in yours and Adrian’s case it’s deflected you attention from all that is going on otherwise……..when I say ‘deflected’ I say that loosely as I doubt you’d notice otherwise.
The added element for K.Hunt and I.Folau for the AFL is part of that ‘lifelong/generational’ support – - it’s got to start somewhere, and whilst there’ll be resistance from the adults – - the new generation is a tad more open, and the AFL has to get it’s foot in the door,…..the have to, they can’t not. In effect – - they have no choice.
btw – Folau – - and his ‘interest’, it is interesting, that he’s not over sold it, however, it’s now June, and back in Feb he made his famous comments about hoping AFL would do well in West Sydney much to the surprise of David Gallop. Given GWS’s Andrew Hill had flagged Folau as a potential target back in about November, one does just wonder how far back Folau had been ‘thinking about it’ and how far back ‘contact’ was made. And, of course, remember, that it’s a couple of years back that he was in Melb with the Storm and doing x-training with AFL clubs and coaching techniques.
AndyRoo said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:29am | Report comment
I dare say Melbourne Heart strike me as more of a real football team than GWS. Their ownership structure might be different but they talk like a duck, act like a duck and look like a duck. They have real football people on board and their coach was not appointed for “marketing” reasons.
GWS look, talk and act like a circus. They are GCU 2. At least GCU won the national youth league with local kids despite being a year too late to get Tommy oar (From Palm beach).
I gave the Sheedy appointment the benefit of the doubt (and thought a Veteran coach would be perfect for building a team) because he’s a legend of the game but the “he’s just for PR” brigade seem to have nailed it.
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
however AndyRoo -
for all the perceived negatives you’ve plucked out there, you ignore the 2 years of club building.
Sheedy is a teaching coach. He certainly brings a ‘spruikers’ talent (of sorts). However, to imply the GWS is not surrounded with a reasonable mix of football people and ‘(west) Sydney’ people is absurd.
Marketing wise…….well,…..it’s all marketing for a start up club. That’s why people willingly allow the speculation about Viduka for Hearts continue even if there’s no substance…….better have people talking about you than not.
It’s all similar sh$t with different wrapping.
I just think it’s a bit rich for people coming from privately owned franchise codes and the like to describe a club that has a very much planned 2 year growth phase as NOT being grown!!!
AndyRoo said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
I think it’s totally unfair you write of Victory and Heart the way you do because of their ownership structure when their actions are far more “club” like than GWS.
Victory introduced a 5 a side comp supported by their mens and ladies team that was so successful Cottee’s picked it up and are going national with it.
Even assuming there is some good ground work going into the GWS club I think the GCU analogy is apt, GCU have put in some hard work in the community and their youth program too (Clive flew down all the parents too see their kids clinch the NYL crown) but their bagged because the front end of the show is a farce/circus. GWS is going the same route and if it didn’t work on the GC (who surely like a circus more than most) it looks even worse in West Sydney.
GWS have been major disappointments in how they carry themselves, their only success has been making the Swans look good.
Edit: One good thing about having two teams though is their is now choice (their home grounds are pretty close so it seems more a choice of red vs blue than east vs west now).
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
the ‘red’ vs ‘blue’ ………….the AFL desperately needs a decent splash of green or orange……
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:17am | Report comment
Gee adrian
Are you saying that all the extensive research/studys and such the AFL have done in this matter mean nothing? are you saying alls they needed to do was phone you? incredible, why didnt you intervene before they put pen to paper?, is it to late, can they rip the contract up?, also your journalistic prowess is flawed, it isnt a fact that israels on $6 million, thats whats been reported, do you know the difference? do you know what “fact” means? im assuming you do because you said “simple fact”, im not saying your wrong BTW, im sure you get the point though.
the way your carrying on anyone would think the AFL have used your money, the signing will benifit the league (AFL) long term, it will benifit all the clubs, the bigger the TV deal the more money the clubs get, the more publicity the AFL get, the bigger the deal, its pretty simple i would’ve thought, remember, the AFL arnt after the hardened league fans, your right about the AFL having no chance at converting them, the AFL want a stake in the island community, they want the “undecideds” they want the unborn fans, and also the large % of female fans who cant stand league in syd, the benifits of these signings have a very long shelf life, you need to realise the next deal will hopefully be north of $1billion, if the AFL can even gain a 3/4/5% increase in NSW ratings that will meen a lot more than a reported $6 million.
James said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:29am | Report comment
“Are you saying that all the extensive research/studys and such the AFL have done in this matter mean nothing? ”
Based on what research? How can you research something like this? The AFL’s approach is go in all guns blazing cause the research told them this would take decades and they need that immediate kickstart.
Like the Americans going into Iraq, all guns blazing, then realising in the process they alienated the locals. The Americans expected the same people who dropped bombs on them to then love them.
As with the AFL who expect NRL fans, who are seeing all their best players targeted by the AFL, to jump to the enemy.
PS: Hate how some AFL fans get personal when someone dares to criticise their league.
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:38am | Report comment
are you saying a multi million dollar per year industry like the AFL jump into things without studies, they wouldve had a team of people a lot smarter than you, i or adrian working on this for some time now, remember, the AFL have expanded before, the do have knowledge in this area, IMO, they’re simply learning from mistakes made in the past.
PS, i hate it when hack journo’s get all high and mighty and bag my code and use the word “fact” as if it were.
James said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:41am | Report comment
Yes, but the studies are all speculative. If you read the papers you would see even hack AFL journos are calling this one big media stunt.
Just because they are in multi million dollar industries doesn’t make them smarter than us. Were the executives of Enron smart?
danwighton said | June 2nd 2010 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
Even Demetriou has eluded to its status as a media stunt – there should be no doubt as to whether this is the case…but it is more than that – its a gamble. However much research and effort has gone into it, there is still a significant chance it will backfire, alienating AFL and NRL fans, as well as casual observers, alike. However if it pays off, it will give both teams the headstart that neither the swans or the lions had.
James said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:39am | Report comment
Your logic is also flawed.
You say they want “the large % of female fans who cant stand league in syd” and “they want the “undecideds”- shouldn’t the Swans have gotten them already?
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:46am | Report comment
but now there will be a game in syd every week, AFL will get a lot more exposure over the next 12/24mnths, ex league players will add to the mix, im telling you now, even hardcore league fans will tune in for the first few games, if only to see israel fall on his face.
James said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:51am | Report comment
If he plays
Thing about exposure, as Adrian says, is that so much of it has been negative in NSW. Look at these types of article in the Tele: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/proof-folau-and-afl-stuntman/story-e6frexnr-1225874221257
Doesn’t portray AFL or GWS in a positive way
Forgetmenot said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:53am | Report comment
The DT is very negative towards football. The editor there is very anti-football.
The AFL hopes to change that.
James said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:54am | Report comment
If you read the comments in their various article you’ll see it’s also the opinion of the punters.
Forgetmenot said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:05am | Report comment
Not many kids i know comment on those articles …
akazie said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:07am | Report comment
Is that right forgetmenot?
Hmmmm, people reply in those articles everyday, been quite a few Victorians doing it too lately.
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:44am | Report comment
You should have seen the DT sports editor Paul Kent on the Back Page (fox Sports) last night bleating on how its gloves off. Brian Taylor destroyed him though, asking why does the NRL not expand into new markets and poach an AFL player of its own?
JimC said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
What’s wrong with being skeptical about this farce?
Thank god the NRL don’t poach AFL players. The NRL may as well poach a celebrity chef or an ice dancer.
Hunt has a chance of suceeding. He is a very adapatble footballer. Folau, no way.
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:01am | Report comment
neh, dont worry about anything the tele says.
but the point is, its publicity, it may be negatively written, obviously by a biased reporter, but people are interested in it, if they wernt it wouldnt be in the paper, i dont like league as a sport, it bores the shit out of me, just like Aussie rules bores the shit out of most sydsiders, but if an AFL player defected to league im going to watch, i think most would, short term at least, this new team will give “rivalry” a chance to do its magic in Sydney, that cant be underestimated, the more spin the PR people can put on this new team the better.
akazie said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:00am | Report comment
I’m hardcore RL and I will not watch, I’ll see what I have to on sports tonight or the news.
Ken said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
and why would female fans who have decided they don’t like footy suddenly decide to try AFL? because Israel Folau mumbles about it on TV (and maybe plays a game or two eventually…)? Seems like a long bow to me. As for the ‘undecided’s', there’s been a choice of 4 football codes in Sydney for a while now if they didn’t like the dominate code there’s never been anything stopping them checking out the others – if they are still ‘undecided’ they are either waiting for an NFL franchise or they’re unlikely to ever be football followers.
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Becuase 48% of all AFL members are females…more than the Rugby codes and Soccer. Ignore them at your own peril…but they do form over half ot the population, by membershiips, support the team and the boys etc.
Ken said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment
yeah but they do this in League too, if AFL is ‘winning’ this stat then it’s going to be by a nothing margin. I’m saying that Women in RL heartlands who have decided they don’t like football aren’t going to suddenly change their mind for a different type of football.. .and if they had wanted to they could have done this some time ago, we have had 4 professional football codes in Sydney for quite some time now
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Yes, but as per my point below, mums dont want their kids playing a sport that could send them to hospital…This has been well documented in the past…
Brendan said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:27am | Report comment
“and also the large % of female fans who can’t stand league in syd, the benifits of these signings have a very long shelf life”
Who are these women? Is this part of the “extensive” research you were talking about?
This comment makes me laugh! If there was a large % of female fans they would already support the swans. The women out in the “greater west” (wherever that may be) are the kinds of women that enjoy league, you know the kind… A little rough around the edges, maybe a tattoo, smoker, few kids… nothing wrong with that either just the way we like em!
You might have a few expats from down south and west but surely they are living in the inner city?? Not Blacktown! Seriously the afl doesn’t know its market here.
P.S The home ground where GWS will play its games is home bush, not “western Sydney”! It’s closer to the centre of Sydney than blacktown!
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:48am | Report comment
I have seen and read that the mothers of Western Sydney are petrified that their sons are getting bulldozed by kids twice their size playign League – which is why many of them are oving to soccer. Aussie Rules strikes a nice balance in between whith power, strength, speed, agility and endurance
MattG said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:48am | Report comment
“power, strength, speed, agility and endurance”… Guess it just lacks one thing then. Skill.
Brendan said | June 2nd 2010 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
“The mothers of western Sydney”??? Have you met any? Have you been to western Sydney? Have you been to Sydney? Is it just Western Sydney that this is the case or does it cover the eastern suburbs as well?
Are the kids that are twice their size the same ones that Israel Folau has been brought on to encourage into afl??? Surely now all the poly’s will go to afl and the kids will run scared…
Have you seen junior league?? There is little to no contact or structure. It’s a rabble… Actually it resembles afl a fair bit.
Kids have always played soccer (or football as it’s known around the world) in Sydney and Australia, this is nothing new. Tim Cahill grew up in south western Sydney and Soccer also strikes a nice balance with power, strength, speed, agility and endurance.
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
at under 7 level ‘modified rules’…..all the games start looking pretty ruddy similar!!!!
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
I have been to Sydney and to Western Sydney.
I was referring to what I have seen and heard on TV and print
Massive polynesian kids will still flock to the Rugby codes…the athletic endurance of Aussie Rules will weed them out early…
Forgetmenot said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:42am | Report comment
Israel Folau will show the kids of Western Sydney that it is possible to start playing football after playing league for so long, and possible to follow football (as well as league).
When i was a kid, if Ablett Snr. had gone to a league team i would have been introduced to league (i had no idea it existed when i was a kid). I would have watched a few games, and tried out a few skills from the new game.
This may be a marketing ploy, but its a very good one. The AFL is not trying to win over the 30 year old men, the 40 year old men, or even the 20 year old men. It is targeting the young boys AND girls who are the future of the code in Western Sydney. It is portraying an community image in order to engage with the parents of these kids, and showcasing itself as a less violent sport than league, but more physical than soccer.
Perhaps the David Beckham marketing ploy was not worth it either … he took money away from all the American kids who wanted to play soccer.
Also comments in that media conference also showed that Folau will be integral in growing football in some of our island neighbours, and Kevin Sheedy also hinted about the internaional growth of football. Good signs for International Football indeed.
punter said | June 2nd 2010 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Are you for real? David Beckham is not a good comparison. He was one of the top footballers in the world when he joined the American MLS, he was captain of England, played for Real Madrid & Man United before that, the two most famous clubs in the world. He then played football in America, not another sport.
Forgetmenot said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Punter,
He is a marketing ploy.
http://www.blitzcorner.com/Soccer/david-beckham-back-to-the-galaxy
punter said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Of course he is a marketing ploy, so was Dwight Yorke * Robbie Fowler to the A-LEAGUE, but they all come with pedigree.
They were the best player in the league when they arrived at their new destination. Will Folau be the best player in the league.
Mark Young said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:08am | Report comment
“Israel Folau will show the kids of Western Sydney that it is possible to start playing football after playing league for so long, and possible to follow football (as well as league).”
Oh My God! Has he signed for the Rovers Now????
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:52am | Report comment
The Orbost Snowy Rovers you mean??
Forgetmenot said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:45am | Report comment
I said football not soccer. Please read my post next time.
Ken said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:48am | Report comment
yeah but he’s leaving football to play AFL…
Mark Young said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Well you have certainly showed that your sense of humour is in good shape!
Chancer said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
But football is soccer. Aren’t you talking about AFL?!
Geez, get your words consistent.
Realfootball said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:25am | Report comment
“international football” – what a joke.
Some of you AFL guys are just ridiculous. Can you really be this deluded? What? Is there a grand plan for dominating the Pacific Islands?
There will NEVER be international AFL that is anything more than a joke. Sure as death and taxes.
Forgetmenot said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:50am | Report comment
From small things big things grow.
Donald Trump says “Think Big”.
The AFL, and general football fans like myself are interested in growing football in the pacific islands (most notably polynesia through folau). No-one has mentioned dominate.
Michael said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:31am | Report comment
So you plan on growing it by offering up two guys in K.Hunt and Folau who turned their backs on the Polynesian countries when they asked them to play for their teams?
Yep…that’ll work.
apaway said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Why? What’s wrong with the game the way it is?
Al said | June 2nd 2010 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
I don’t get this obsession with the AFL wanting to dominate everything. You’ve had 30 years in Sydney to dominate there and you rarely get 100k watching yoru games on TV, some contrived stunt involving a rugby league player isn’t going to change anything, in fact it’s just going to turn people against the AFL and its franchised, soulless product even more.
akazie said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:58am | Report comment
Like the article but why mention off field dramas that RL hasn’t seen much of this year compared to AFL, sly dig if ever there was one?
As for some of the responses, delusional comes to mind.
How do you guys know females don’t follow RL in Sydney and how do you know they don’t like a bit of the rough stuff on the pitch?
Also, if Islanders were going to play and watch AFL, they’d have been doing it already if they have lived in Australia/Sydney long enough as the AFL gets more coverage than any other sport in this state.
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:11am | Report comment
the female supporter base for league is much lower than the AFL, thats a fact, i cant be bothered finding the figures though so you’ll have to trust me or find them yourself, interest from females in league has grown over the last few years though i will conceed.
as for islanders, their a minority group, the young islander kiddies see the islander NRL stars as heros, they want to be like them, and why not? now they will see an islander (hopefully) playing Aussie rules, its not a silly concept that a few islander kis might now start kicking a sherrin around is it?.
akazie said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:16am | Report comment
I remember seeing a report on it last year and it was around 10% lower, not as much as AFL fans carry on with.
As for Islanders, they have always felt AFL was a soft game, go to any Rugby League/Union forum or a kiwi sports forum and ask them yourself.
Now this is quite funny, in the media for the last couple of years, there has been plenty of people laughing at RL because the Islanders are taking over and the poor little white boys mums complain that they get hurt, the AFL and its fans only to gladly pointed this out quite a few times, now they are their best friends lol.
Brissie Kid said | June 2nd 2010 @ 7:42am | Report comment
The NRL is doing fine against the female-friendly designed code.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/league-girls-loyal-under-heavy-fire/story-e6frfgbo-1225734277308
Despite the fact that this year’s most shocking off-field dramas have involved female victims, a new study has shown that support among women for the NRL is rivalling Aussie rules.
In a major boost for the NRL on the eve of its inaugural Women In League round, researcher Repucom has found that 40.9 per cent of league fans were women at the end of 2008. The two-in-five ratio is just 0.8 per cent less than the gender split recorded in AFL, long suspected to be the most female-friendly football code.
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:52am | Report comment
According to this article, approximately half ( I said 48% above becuase I remember reading that somewhere) of all AFL suporters are women. More that the Rugby’s and significantly more than soccer (although we all know more girls play soccer which is another thing all together).
http://www.tasa.org.au/conferences/conferencepapers08/Leisure,%20Tourism,%20Travel%20and%20Sport/Mewett,%20Peter,%20Session%2055%20PDF.pdf
chris said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:21am | Report comment
I feel sorry for Australia with codes that all come from Rugby i.e.Aussie Rules,Rugby League and Rugby Union,i wish the australian sporting landscape was more straight like the yanks with NFL,Baseball,Basketball and Ice Hockey.
Baz35 said | June 2nd 2010 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Australian football doesn’t come from rugby. The game is more similar to soccer as it is to league in particular. It is primarily a passing game and not a running game, and it has no restriction on player movement.
st penguin said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Geez Baz35, you should read up on your history.
Rugby itself is thought to have evolved from soccer, restrictions on passing and player movement came later.
Brissie Kid said | June 2nd 2010 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
No doubt that AFL came from rugby. Been proven by many. Englishman Tom Wills brought it to Melbourne after he migrated from Rugby School. There is material on the web if you look. Go search for Greg de Moore, Sean Fagan, Gillian Hibbens, Geoffrey Blainey & Tony Colins. Not hard to find. Go read
AFL Origins Revisited
http://rugbyreloaded.blogspot.com/2010/03/afl-origins-revisited.html
Aussie Rules a Very British Game
http://rugbyreloaded.blogspot.com/2010/03/aussie-rules-very-british-game.html
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
Brissie Kid -
what’s been proven is that Rugby played a part.
there were 4 fellows on the rules committee – - Wills was but one of them. Wills seemingly argued for and against certain Rugby rules/concepts.
It’s been stated that the rules of Eton, Harrow and Winchester as well as Rugby were present to be considered.
The game is a bit of a ‘bastard hybrid’ of…….not established codes…..as, at the time, for example – there was no Rugby Firxt XV…..Rugby school had no one else to play, the game was a ‘war game’ played within the school and with rules that referred to ‘local obstacles’.
The biggest impact of ‘Rugby’ is more the ‘idea’ of playing ‘football’ and the ‘muscular christianity’…….and this was most travelled at the time via the text of ‘Tom Browns school days’ which carried less detail of the rules/game play of Rugby football than Harry Potter books do about Quidditch.
That’s not to say that Rugby school rules weren’t an influence. Of course they were. Just, not the only one. Just as Tom Wills was not the only ‘author’ of the rules both up front and progressively thereafter.
Brissie Kid said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
I believe those writers rather than an AFL evangelist thanks. AFL = rugby.
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Brissie Kid -
having bought and read Geoffrey Blainey’s “A game of our own”, bought and read Greg de Moore’s book on Tom Wills and having bought and read “The Australian Game of FOotball” in which the Hibbens piece appears – - trust me,
and if you check out the links you published too – -
the point that I made is backed up:
The Melbourne rules of 1859 were not Aussie Rules as we know them today; merely an amalgam of contemporary football rules that would slowly acquire the features of and evolve into the sport played by the VFL and ultimately the AFL.
as I pointed out – it’s documented that Mr.Thompson (one of the 4 members of the rules committee that met that Tuesday evening) brought with him the rules of Eton, Harrow, WInchester and Rugby.
The fellows on the committee were either born in Britain or educated in part in Britain.
The rules one on one were in the main effectively ‘English’ rules. No dispute.
The outcome being the collection of rules…..the set known as the Melbourne Rules of FOotball from 1859 were a unique set,….especially at the time.
That’s the point. The origins of the game are in the main shared with Association Football and Rugby Football (that evolved later outside of the school in an organised manner).
And the most unique aspect of Australian football is the evolution of those rules over time, just as the 1962/63 London Rules of Football evolved over time and later merged with the Sheffield rules……the set of rules had a somewhat unique starting point as a hybrid of known (school) rules. The evolution of those rules are perculiar to that game.
Australian FOotball therefore shares common ancestry with both Rugby and soccer, but, is firstly is not derived from soccer (is didn’t yet exist), and with respect to being derived from rugby,….it’s more of a dotted line to the school rather than a solid line to the ‘code’.
If you can’t grasp that then you obviously haven’t read any of what you have presented to supposedly support your view.
The 2nd blog piece about Aussie Rules : a very British game is quite correct in parts,
the main difference b/w what happened in Melb and what happened 4 years later in London was perhaps only possible in such a young city/colony as Melbourne/Victoria (less than 30 years old). That the obvious need had been demonstrated for a single code for all to play by – - and since the city was only just establishing itself and it’s educational institutions and the like and the MCC was a key cultural ‘leader’, it was relatively easy to establish the Melbourne Football Club, write the rules and effectively lead the way. Back in London, the same desire was stated for a single set of rules for all to play…..however, I’d suggest that it was never really a possibility to gain consensus across the board because for such a more established society there were too many (class related) deeply rooted rivalries.
btw – given VIctoria was but a colonial outpost of the British empire……of course the game is/was British at the outset. However, the evolution of the game as an independant entity effectively grew in it’s home colonies along with the independance of the colonies/nation themselves. It became more and more ‘Australian’ the longer it went.
Brissie Kid said | June 2nd 2010 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
So we agree. AFL is not an indigenous code. AFL is just as much a British game as rugby league (the poms haven’t run RL since the 1950s). Soccer is a British game modified by the world. RU and cricket are still British games.
Joel said | June 2nd 2010 @ 10:29pm | Report comment
Brissie Kid, just what constitutes “indigenous” in your universe? Are you going to claim that baseball is not an American sport because somewhere in the mist of time it has connections to cricket, or that gridiron isn’t American because it has some past distant heritage to rugby? Are you going to argue that Swedish culture is not Swedish because their ancestors came from South Africa? Those sports and Australian football are clearly creations of their respective cultures and nowhere else.
st penguin said | June 3rd 2010 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Joel – just look up the word indigenous before you post again. Given that AFL evolved from an english game, it’s ridiculous to call it indigenous.
I disagree with Brissie KId, AFL is clearly an Australian sport. But it’s not indigenous.
Redb said | June 3rd 2010 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Game over for the rugby types.
Aussie Rules, Australian football is Australian and its indigenous in this country.
Apart from some bitter rugby historians and internet hacks desperate to tear it down, in the general public and especially wiith 180,000 Aussie Kids in Auskick around Australia this is the Australian game.
At the very basic level, all things have international influences. Is the Sydney Opera House no longer an Australian icon or the technolgy and materials used to build the Harbour Bridge uniquely only Australian?
Game over, the argument is mute, people know the game as Aussie Rules/Australian Football, its self explanatory and no amount of cyber heckling will change it.
Brissie Kid said | June 3rd 2010 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Football is an English game. The rule changes the AFL has made are akin to the Aussie accent altering the English language but in the end we are all still speaking and writing English and you lot are still playing and watching the English sport of football.
Joel said | June 3rd 2010 @ 11:52am | Report comment
st penguin, try reading more and writing less, by yours and BrissieKids measure there is nothing indigenous outside South Africa because it was the origin of all humanity and therefore all culture, and therefore all codes of football. You smoke blowing doesn’t change reality, AUSTRALIAN football is an AUSTRALIAN invention, any suggestion to the contrary is laughable.
Brissie Kid said | June 3rd 2010 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
The important thing is that we non AFL fans are educated enough to not immediately swallow what the AFL and its fans say.
Your game isn’t an Australian invention and no one is going to follow it just because you say it is Australia’s only indigenous game.
To not support AFL is not unAustralian. It is unVictorian.
Joel said | June 3rd 2010 @ 8:54pm | Report comment
BrissieKid, I think what we have learned is that you suffer from a curious mix of parochial attachment and cultural cringe. You obviously have an irrational hatred for anything associated with Victoria, so much so that you turn your back on your own culture, why is that?
Your bizarre parochial hatred withstanding, it doesn’t change that Australian football is an Australian invention, hence the name Australian football. Nor does it change the fact that Rugby League is named after a town in England. Funnily enough, that one is named after a continent and the other after a small town roughly the size of Wagga also describes their respective strength.
Brissie Kid said | June 3rd 2010 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
In case you hadn’t noticed Joel your Victorian game is not part of the culture in more than half of Australia. We’re not turning our backs on anything except a freakshow version of English rugby that somehow survived into the modern world. No one is going to buy the argument that it is unAustralian to not follow AFL. It is unVictorian to not follow AFL.
Joel said | June 3rd 2010 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
BrissieKid, you have a long journey in front of you. It’s not my Victorian game, it’s our Australian game and it’s played and loved all around Australia.
1. Denial <– you are here
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
akazie said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:23am | Report comment
Is that you Teddyboy?
chris said | June 2nd 2010 @ 7:49am | Report comment
yep how od you guess..who r u akazie.
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:33am | Report comment
TBH, i dont know why NRL people are making such a fuss, he was leaving the code anyway, we basiclly snatched him from union.
most of the football states see the NRL as a try hard league, its hard not to laugh sometimes TBH, dancing girls and fire works and the crowd size is less of an AFL 2nds game lol, league isnt anywhere near as big in Sydney as the AFL is in Melbourne, basiclly, AFL cant get any bigger in the AFL states so we have to move on to the non AFL states.
AndyRoo said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Huh…the NRL has never had a petting Zoo at any of their games like GWS has and isn’t going to pay 6 million dollars for the 20th or so best Rugby league player and make him the highest paid player in their game.
Joel said | June 2nd 2010 @ 10:35pm | Report comment
Actually, it’s much much less than that and nowhere near being the highest paid. The NRL wants to make out its all about money which is why the $6 million figure has been thrown out there.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/real-price-yet-to-be-revealed/story-e6frg7mf-1225874232146
chancer said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Crowds are much much smaller in NRL granted. But TV ratings are comparable and that’s where the money is.
Joel said | June 2nd 2010 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
Not really. Putting aside the whole discussion of TV rights and NRL delusions thereof, the AFL still generates far more revenue than the NRL. Even if the NRL managed to get a rights deal the equal of the AFL, the AFL would still be able to easily outspend the NRL.
Realfootball said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Matt, the relative crowds for AFL vs NRL in Sydney are a result of your God awful weather and geographical limitations versus a northern city with a subtropical climate and many, many more natural attractions. I like Melbourne, but it doesn’t offer much outside of football and food – and no I don’t live in or hail from Sydney. Sydney simply offers people a lot more ways to spend their time.
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Realfootball -
???
god awful weather DOES NOT bring the crowds OUT.
WHen the weather is crap…..have not you noticed our crowds aren’t that flash and they tend to huddle in under cover.
actually, the best ever crowds have been over the last few years where for whatever reason we’ve had ‘climate change’ and have had drier winters and basically……BETTER weather!!!!!
btw – ‘natural attractions’………how long does it take you to get to the snow from Sydney in July?? Mt Donna Buang is sitting in the Yarra Valley overlooking Healesville and Warburton.
Have you never sailed on Port Phillip Bay….it’s a bigger expanse of water than your ‘harbour’, Port Phillip Bay is 35 times larger than Sydney Harbour with 260 kms of ‘coastline’ and heaps of safe beaches.
What natural attractions are you talking about near to Sydney?? ocean beaches are not overly safe….yeah, good for surfing. The Harbour is cramped and busy,……but very pretty for photos. The Blue Mountains a cute but take a bit to get to and not much good for skiling.
st penguin said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Dude, are you now trying to argue Port Phillip Bay is better than Sydney Harbour?
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
visually of course not,
however, for serious yachtsmen, Port Phillip bay is a beauty and is hosting the first leg of the ISAF Sailing world cup for 2009-2011.
It’s different to Sydney Harbour……but that’s not to say that it’s devoid of merit!!!
MC
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
“Dude” I think you know what he is saying…
Australian Football crowds tend to be more parochial and come out in greater numbers to support their teams, regardless of which city you live in. And this is cleary evidenced in both Sydney and Brisbane, with the Swans and Lions havering higher average crowds than the Broncos’ or any other Sydney based NRL team respectively
St Penguin said | June 2nd 2010 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
Jamesp, I was only asking about the harbour, not average crowds at football matches. But thanks for your input!
Im not sure why he put inverted commas around the word harbour, was he trying to imply it isn’t a harbour?
So many questions…
Baz35 said | June 2nd 2010 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Really robust non-cliched argument that one.
Australian football crowd domination is national, not confined to Melbourne
Realfootball said | June 2nd 2010 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
I confess – I’m biased. AFL absolutely bores me to tears. Scrappy game played by men who have been dressed out of a gay fireman’s calendar. Give me football, NRL, Super 14, basketball anytime. And I find Melbourne unprepossessing in terms of its climatic and topographical assets compared to Sydney, so guilty on that count too. And finally, these code wars threads are a hoot.
That robust enough?
akazie said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:37am | Report comment
Yeah, but you Southerners seem to think we give a stuff what you think of us, we don’t.
We just don’t like big mouths and knowitalls coming into our turf thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread, arrogance personified.
4.2 million peak for SOO 1 with 70,000 at the game in a monsoon would suggest you’re and your mates are way off the mark.
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:49am | Report comment
yep, i suppose the NRL has the AFL covered hey? these figures are last years i beleive, but this years numbers are even more lobsided, i cant be bothered typing them out and cutting and pasting them is to messy, heres the link http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2009.php
as i said, AFL is massive compared to league in the southern states., crowd sizes/rating, anyway you slice it basiclly, these are national ratings, thoughts?
Round……….NRL………………………….. …………….. AFL
1……………1,709,000……………………. ………………3,195,000
2……………1,441,000……………………. ………………2,903,000
3……………1,525,000……………………. ………………3,172,000
4……………1,776,000……………………. ………………3,229,000
5……………1,512,000……………………. ………………2,999,000
6……………1,567,000……………………. ………………3,510,000
7……………1,071,000 (2 games)……………………….3,028,000
8……………779,000 (2 game)…………………………..2,841,000
9……………462,000 (1 game)…………………………..2,934,000
10………….1,467,000
11………….1,017,000
heres a snippet from the raters.
So, how do the figures stack up in 2009? Using the official Oztam readings, the average weekly audience for the AFL in 2009 was 2,956,000 per week, compared to the NRL’s 1,548,000.
Over the entire season, the AFL was watched by a total of 65,023,000 and the NRL by 40,272,000. But what many fail to take into account is the three hour running time of an AFL telecast compared to the two hour running time of it’s NRL rival. When this is taken into account, the AFL is viewed 2.4 times as often as the NRL on free-to-air according to Oztam figures. 195,069,000 cumulative hours were viewed for the AFL compared to 80,546,000 for the NRL. With advertisers able to slot in commercials every time a goal is kicked, the commercial value would also appear to be far greater than the NRL, which has far fewer opportunities to slot in ads of their own. It should also be noted, that the NRL’s flexible schedule where they choose games several weeks out for its various timeslots, gives it what should be a ratings advantage. Friday night football in the NRL is selected as the highest rating match and is shown live, from 7:30 to 9:30, with Sydney and Brisbane usually getting different matches featuring local teams to maximise ratings. The AFL meanwhile, on Friday nights has a one hour delayed telecast in Melbourne, 90 minutes in Adelaide, and 3 hours delayed in Perth of one match set in stone from the previous October. Looking at these circumstances, and comparing the heartlands of the two codes, one would think that in Sydney, the NRL would rate higher than Melbourne for the AFL. Interestingly, the AFL averages 451,000 in Melbourne on Friday nights and the NRL averages 386,000 in Sydney, with the AFL figures going through to 11:30pm. The NRL figure only goes to 9:30, at which time a delayed (and lower rating) telecast of another NRL match begins
Mark Young said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:42am | Report comment
http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2010.php
Check it out, it’s much closer this year then the figures you have quoted. You will also notice that the NRL deals shows each game once, while the AFL deal shows games on multiple channels including live broadcasts into northern capital cities, while the NRL figures do not have live telecasts anywhere outside the Northern States.
AFL still bigger, but not the whitewash you are painting.
Hi Matt
You clearly are very passionate about your sport and that is pleasing to see, fight the power. However Can I recommend that you look at this from another angle.
AFL is clearly the dominant code with numbers across Australia, That domination is based on massive support in Victoria, WA, VIC and TAS and a good level of support in NSW and QLD.
Rugby League, which you are talking about has massive support in NSW and QLD, a good level of support in VIC and zero support in SA, WA and TAS.
The question is.. How do you increase the support of your game in the Northern States? I agree with Adrian that the policy of buying players AND the mentality of imposing a team rather then letting it grow from above, are unlikely to encourage fans.
Taking pot shots at the NRL, err you have Dancing Girls, Err you get smaller crowds then us, err you have fireworks is the sort of puerile nonsense you get from school boys argueing about who has the bigger piece. In fact, comments like that from either side of the Barassi line simply confirm the worst stereotypes that both sides have to offer rather then encourage fans to try something new.
Have a good day mate
Michael C said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Mark Young -
if starting 2 new teams with 2 year ‘growth’ phases from Under 18s via 2nd tier seniors into a fully fledged elite side – - if that’s not ‘growing’ then what it???
The GCFC and GWS under 18 squads for the first year give local kids the maximum opportunity to be involved from the start,
other ‘franchise’ clubs that suddenly appear over night in the NRL (Titans) and ARU (Force/Rebels) and HAL (GCU) have been purely chequebook based ‘creations’ established effectively between seasons and,……privately owned franchises – - backed by rich owners who impose the will of their personal wealth.
I fail to see how you regard GWS and or GC17 as ‘imposed’ as distinct to ‘grown’??
Mark Young said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Hi Michael
You make some good points there about juniors. Nice to see some dollars going in.
However, I regard the GWS team as imposed because there was no interest from fans driving the league to create the team. Rather the league created the team in order to get fans.
I can’t really comment about the other markets since I don’t live in those areas but I certainly have concerns about the long term viability of clubs like the Force, Rebels and GCU who have been dropped in similarly to the way this AFL team is. I don’t consider the Titans in that group since, although they appeared overnight, the locals were very interested in getting a team and supporting them.
But Michael we’ve already talked about this on another forum. … Do you think that Israel Folau is likely to make anyone give up the sport they currently follow and start watching AFL? Or do you think that money would have been better spent on building up local AFL talent, promoting the games, running events etc. I reckon the later would get more from the $$Millions.
Paul J said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:14am | Report comment
matt
Are you quoting from that infamous article by Daniel Green on Talking footy? He only shows capital city FTA stats.
More people in Australia watched a rugby league game than an aussie rules game last year.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/we-will-fight-them-on-the-couches-league-outrates-afl-for-first-time-20091220-l7i3.html
The FTA networks make 1.35 times more revenue in NSW / Qld than the rest of the counrty combined.
This is why many media experts have tipped both the AFL & NRL to get $1 billion from their TV deals.
Baz35 said | June 2nd 2010 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Source = Roy Masters
Paul J said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:54am | Report comment
I realise Roy Masters gives it credibility but Roy didn’t crunch the numbers himself, the NRL paid an independent company to do it.
apaway said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
“Roy Masters” and “credibility” shouldn’t be used in the same sentence.
Mark Young said | June 2nd 2010 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Hi Baz35
You’re suggesting that we should discount Roy Masters because he doesn’t like AFL.
Does that mean I should ignore anyone on the thread who doesn’t like Rugby League?
The basis of good debate is taking a side and arguing it. It is poor form to suggest we ignore something just because we don’t like the source.
Is he right or wrong?
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
You should ignore Roy Masters becuase:
1. Every second article he rights (and that is NO exaggeration…check it out at League HQ site) is ANTI AFL
2. He manipulates facts and figures to suit his own agenda which is the complete and and utter failure of anything to do with AFL in NSW and QLD
3. He is factually inaccurate with his figures…evidence of this is an article on the salary of NRL players when he could not even figure out how the basic tax scales work…read that article…I have commented on this before
With regards to this particular article, he icnludes rep footy (SoO and Internationals) which the AFL clearly do not have). When you compare the averages round by round week in week out, the AFL are miles in front.
Michael said | June 2nd 2010 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
James P.
So we should ban Patrick Smith or any other AFL journalist who hate NRL?
You don’t think AFL manipulate figures. You know like there Junior members, they count Aus-Kick…not actual members in their figures. LOL
Ah yes…week in week out…but the rep games are part of OUR game. The advantage of OUR game is we reach more people with our REP football. Something the AFL is totally ignorant too.
JamesP said | June 2nd 2010 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Whether the AFL manipultates figures or not has nothing to do with the journalist who reports them. Roy manipulates figures to suit his own agenda.
Patrick Smith writes opinion pieces for the Australian regulalry on many sports (a la Greg Baum and Richard Hinds in the Age).
Patrick Smith also sinks the boot into the AFL regulalry.
Roy Masters is an RL writer (equivalent AFL in the Age is Carolyn WIlson) who systematically bags the AFL at every opportunity. It is very Daily Telegraph like and becoming tiresone, becuase every time I read his artciels, I just now he is going to unload.
Michael said | June 2nd 2010 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Just like when I read the Herald Sun I know there will be an article about Rugby League bagging it…if there is any coverage at all down there.
I know from my visits to Melbourne the papers don’t seem to want to give any time to the game at all, and the only time they do write about it, is to bag the living daylights out of it.
At least up here AFL is getting a go in the media.
Just because 1 journalist is saying the odd bad thing you get your knickers in a twist. And he writes for the Herald, not the Telecrap.
And the Telegraph isn’t really pro-League either. They are the ones that constantly bag our players and teams 80% of the time. This year, the players in most part have been well behaved, and given less opportunity to write bullcrap articles.
You are right, manipulating figures does not reflect on the journalist in the AFL’s case, it reflects on the AFL as a whole in terms of putting misleading data out to the public. And that is just as bad. 85% of what Masters reports is accurate based on what I have physically researched myself after querying the truth. Of reports issued by the AFL, there are so many errors in there sometimes that I’ve literally learnt to take their figures with a grain of salt. The amount of “padding” in there is ridiculous.
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
matt
Are you quoting from that infamous article by Daniel Green on Talking footy? He only shows capital city FTA stats.
More people in Australia watched a rugby league game than an aussie rules game last year.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/we-will-fight-them-on-the-couches-league-outrates-afl-for-first-time-20091220-l7i3.html
The FTA networks make 1.35 times more revenue in NSW / Qld than the rest of the counrty combined.
This is why many media experts have tipped both the AFL & NRL to get $1 billion from their TV deals.
paul.
can we include VFL/SAFL/WAFL/NTFL/TFL in those figures as well?, compared running time?, higher rate of female veiwers? (you know, the female supporters that actually account for most of a famillys spending), the figures i quoted are correct, they arnt made up, dont beleive everything the DT tells you mate, in fact, dont beleive anything the DT tells you.
the AFL crowds double the NRLs, and the TV numbers are there in black and white, AFL easily out rated league, always has too, heres my link again, please tell me where its wrong? http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2009.php
Michael said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
Lol Matt….too easy.
Why don’t we break those figures down shall we.
Firstly, those figures account for 8 games vs 3 games televised on FTA a week. So automatically its disproportionate.
Lets look at it on a per game basis shall we?
Lets take ROund 1 as that is when the interest is pretty high.
Round 1 – AFL – Total 3.277m viewers over 8 games = 409,625 per game.
ROund 1 – NRL – Total 1,764m viewers over 3 games = 588,000 per game.
On top of that is the fact the NRL is only given a fair go in NSW and QLD whereas the AFL is shown in Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne at a reasonable timeslot. These figures also do not include New Zealand for Rugby League games, as well as British Audiences.
So that is the first thing, on a per game basis, NRL attracts more viewers, and if it was able to get a fair go in the other states it’d be even bigger.
Next up, we have the market entry test -
Swans game for Sydney viewers – 117,000 viewers
Brisbane Game for Brisbane viewers – 95,000 viewers
Melbourne game for Melbourne audience – 203,000 viewers (Round 2 – first Melbourne FTA game)
So there you go. This shows the viewership impact of entrants in other markets. Brisbane and Sydney don’t watch the game as religiously as Perth, Adelaide or Melbourne. In Melbourne, the Storm rate well for a club only 12 years old, in comparison to the 30 year head start in Sydney and a fairly long headstart in Brisbane.
But I hear you saying “BUT BUT…THE TOTALS ARE BIGGER! WAH” – Its a volume thing my son. If NRL was shown FTA 8 times a week it would rate through the roof. But that is the problem with the current FTA deal which will be resolved shortly.
The FACT of the matter is Matt, that in the two of the top 3 biggest markets in Australia, are dominated by Rugby League viewership.
You may say you have a higher total, but its due to more games being shown in comparison as well as the networks giving a fair go to your code in rival states, unlike the NRL which is due to lack of foresight by NRL management, I agree…but the figures don’t lie I agree Matt.
And the figures suggest on a per game basis and on a market entry basis into each rival’s territory that RL is more than just competitive and deserves the parody amount of money that the AFL will get in the next TV deal.
If you say include VFL and all the territory games, then we’ll include the Internationals, NSW Cup, QLD Cup, State of Origin and Bundaberg Cup along with the games shown from English Super League. If that’s how flimsy you want to get it. Or even bring in Pay TV audiences…
But then again, that wouldn’t help your argument would it?
matt said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:22pm | Report comment
thanks for mention on LU lol.
what you need to remember big mick, is the ratings your talking about, include rep games, toyota cup, SOO, my point was the AFL figures dont include VFL/SAFL/WAFL/NTFL/TFL, we simply dont have SOO, but we still out rate you even without it, regionals are tricky, they dont tell the full story and with all regional ratings, it isnt an exact science, they go on the theory that this part of the state had this much so the others must of had the same, what they dont take in consideration, is that sthn NSWs is 100% AFL country, please dont try and dispute that fact because i just recently moved away from there.
these are facts big mick, VIC has a smaller population than Sydney, yet the FTA numbers for AFL in Victoria are much higher than the NRL numbers in Sydney, heres another fact, the NRL GF outrated the AFL GF this year, but what does that tell you really?, do you think if the storm wernt in it that the ratings wouldve been as high? surely not, last years NRL GF was a bit like a Collingwood V Sydney GF, a raters wet dream, that would be the highest rated football game the country has ever seen if it ever happened IMO.
you also skip the longer playing time of an AFL game, also, the friday night NRL game is shown live, the AFLs friday night game isnt, yet, we still out rate you, we have 2 less games on pay TV per week and guess what, we outrate you there too on “reach”, our game can fit in more adds and is a much better overall product compared to league, but hey, dont take my word for it, look at what the broacassters were willing to but the AFL rights for compared to the NRLs, the broadcasters rule your fixture as well, not ours though, gallop himself said not to long ago that it would cost the NRL 50million in rights money to have a fixture like the AFLs.
one other thing to consider with the pay TV ratings, the AFL games compete against FTA games, crazy i know but its true, so basicly there’s half your audience gone there and then, i feel you need to research the matter a tad more before defaming me on LU with no right of reply, maybe you could post this reply on there hey paul?, cheers anyway.
i made a hitler rant not long ago, AFL v NRL, it made its way onto LU lol, i probably should join LU one of these days but i fear i wouldnt last long, gee, im not even allowed on big footy anymore.
James D said | June 2nd 2010 @ 8:52am | Report comment
4.2 million peak because it is a wednesday night and no one else has anything to do. and it was not quite 70,000 which i think is pathetic to the pinnacle of the sport in the heartland of the sport to not sell it out (at least sell out tickets).
Michael said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:37am | Report comment
A) The finale of Lost was on. And we peaked at 4.2million. Noone has anything else to do? They still have to tune in.
B) Did you see the weather? It was gale force winds and terrential rain, the fact 70,000 still turned up is an achievement. The event sold all but 1,000 tickets, but 9,000 didn’t turn up due to weather. This was from ANZ Stadium themselves.
Dogs Of War said | June 2nd 2010 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Not to mention that has history goes, that crowd is great for the first game of a series, it’s usually the 3rd game that sells out (when a state has 2 games that year). As well those 10K tickets are in the bleeders, and it’s better to watch the game at home, than watch ants run around the field. You tend to just watch the big screens as that’s better for viewing the game.
akazie said | June 2nd 2010 @ 3:09am | Report comment
Matt, have you got wood?
I couldn’t care less, I seen a heap of lines scribbled down and as soon as I got to BeAussies Talking footy link I didn’t even bother reading your post any further as I know what you AFL types go on with, nice waste of time haha.
BTW, your code would kill to have the small foot print around the world RL has, have a nice day
I hope your regionalised sport can break out of Southern Australia one day, I really do teehee.
(50k in Sydney snigger)
Cristobal said | June 2nd 2010 @ 5:08am | Report comment
signing folau and talk of visits to north and south America for players isn’t an attempt to internationalise the AFL as Kevin sheedy might have you believe.
Very few kids play AFL particularly in NSW and QLD and therefore their pipeline is extremely thin.
They are desperate to import players from other sports not to give althletes a career choice as stated by the AFL propoganda machine but because they have nowhere else to turn.
Qld Dad said | June 2nd 2010 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Its an interesting point you make, my son come home from school with a Aus – kick promo stuff.
I was keen for him to play soccer to start and league when he gets a bit older. But since neither is a his school at such a young age he is playing Aus – kick this year and enjoys it. Mind you he would enjoys any sport that he gets into. I asked another mate who has kids the same age in a different school and they are in the same boat.
Interestingly his younger brother who is 4 is already wanting to play as well. Its just an observation and eventually I hope they will be playing rugby league or soccer. But I can imagine there is a percentage that will continue with AFL.
I read another post further down the Lockyer started off playing AFL, I would have never thought.