Hunt and Folau won’t make it as AFL stars
By Spiro Zavos, 8 Jun 2010 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- AFL, israel falou, Karmichael Hunt, NRL, Rugby League
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Brisbane Broncos rugby league player Karmichael Hunt kicks an AFL football. AAP Image/Patrick Hamilton
If the millions of dollars the AFL codes are paying Karmichael Hunt and Israel Falou are for more than for PR work, then these two players should be expected to be frontline five-year players in their new code. A fearless prediction: this is not going to happen.
On Saturday, the Sydney Morning Herald ran three documents that make the convincing case that neither Hunt (a tough, stocky and not so fast athlete), nor Folau (a tall, fast, super-athlete), have the practice history or the right aerobic levels to become outstanding AFL players.
Bruce Teague of Gosford, in an informed letter to the SMH, made the point that it will take an enormous amount of time to teach a union or league player, even if they have the right body-type, how to play in the AFL.
Then there is the problem of the 360-degree vision which is absolutely vital for an AFL player, compared with the 180-degree vision required for league or union. “Izzy will have good moments,” he predicts. “But Karmichael will be consistently average.”
Then Michael Cowley had a piece on how Swan Dan Hannebery was made a star by his dad.
Most nights, Dan and his dad would go off to a pedestrian tunnel under the Kew Eastern subway and spend countless hours kicking footballs. According to Cowley, this practice is “the secret behind Hannebery’s sweet, accurate kicking.”
In another part of the SMH’s sport section there was a fascinating article by Daniel Lewis titled Talent Not Enough For Code Swap.
Lewis interviewed sports scientists about Hunt and Folau’s switch to the AFL. They told him athletes need “10 years of passionate engagement,” or 10,000 hours of ‘deliberate practice’ to reach the elite level of their sport.
To reach this level, Hunt and Folau would have to engage in 417 days of deliberate practice at 24 hours a day, Lewis reported.
The experts also pointed out that when an athlete transfers to another sport, he is exposed to patterns he won’t be able to read. This will make him a liability on attack and defence.
Former Collingwood player Ricky Barham is quoted as saying that coaches “will put somebody on Folau who can run all day and he’ll be rooted.”
This raises the question of whether the AFL has considered the impact it will have on its credibility if its two highly-paid, make that excessively over-paid, converts do not make it.
My guess is that AFL tragics will be furious that their money has been thrown away. The AFL players, as we have seen already from posts on The Roar, will be as mad as hell and will push for a bigger cut of the AFL riches.
And rugby league fans, especially among the reptiles of the media, will become consumed with a visceral hatred of AFL for its perceived arrogance in trying to bring down their game.
This has already started with an item in the sports gossip section of The Sunday Telegraph which suggests that Folau, a Mormon, was forced to accept the AFL offer to play in the western suburbs of Sydney so that his family and his church can keep a close watch on his behaviour.
None of this makes for good PR for the AFL, despite the fact that good PR is what the Hunt/Folau exercise seems to be all about.
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June 8th 2010 @ 8:35am
Dingobob said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Isn’t this the Rugby Union page? Why are we giving space to a couple of league players who want to play AFL. I’d rather talk about things that matter.
June 8th 2010 @ 8:37am
AndyRoo said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Good thing about sport is we will be able to see for ourselves, all our oppinions count for naught when the games on. I’m not betting on them being “succesful” (especially Izzy) but they will get the chance to proove me wrong and as much as I bag the idea as a circus….have to admit it’s an interesting one.
I am sure they will have some definciencies but if you watch an AFL game it’s not 18 Judds vs 18 Reiwoldts and expansion will just add to that. Their are plenty of dodgy kicks and guys that get tackled from behind.
June 8th 2010 @ 8:39am
oikee said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
I think rugby union and rugby league should now look at what potentail the AFL has got to offer our games. Not tall players, but good running players and players who are good in the air. Rugby league is evolving quickly down this path now. Players who can leap for the high ball. Look no further than AFL talent. Now the doors are opened, i think rugby union(line outs and wingers and kickers), plus rugby league, centres and outside backs, could poach all there players from the AFL now.
Scouts will be able to identify talent from a early age. And we can now walk into there camps knowing that the doors have been opened. As Demetriou said, all is fair, love and war.
Rugby league, and rugby union for that matter, has a few cards up there sleeve, they have been doing this for over 100 years now. Trench warfare.
June 8th 2010 @ 8:43am
Mark Young said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:43am | Report comment
The bigger issue at play for the AFL’s investment of millions, is that even if Hunt and Folau are raging successes and become outstanding players, they still won’t drag a single extra person through the gate!
Fans don’t follow players, never have and never will. They follow clubs. If the AFL announced that the Penrith Panthers has left the NRL to play AFL I could understand it, but just a couple of players?? Zero impact. Did the fans abandon league when wendell left? What about Gasnier? Sonny Bill? etc. All of them bigger stars and more marketable then Israel. I ADORE Benji Marshall but if he went to play AFL I would wish him the best and keep watching the tigers!
And, even if they DID drag fans with them. Israel has a very low popularity in Western Sydney. He may have grown up here, so we have heard, but he has played all of his games for the disliked Storm and Broncos (disliked in Western Sydney) and even plays for the hated Qld!!! (again only hated in Western Sydney!). As far as i can tell, he hasn’t played in Western Sydney since he was an anonymous teenager.
So yes, spending big bucks on players to drag over fans is a dubious practice and even if it works, the AFL has bet on the wrong horse.
June 8th 2010 @ 8:56am
Redb said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:56am | Report comment
I like watching Benji Marshall as well. I also like Torres who plays for Liverpool. You like the stars of a certain game.
The only way people will like Folau is if he succeeds and becomes a power full forward. In many ways Folau has greater potential than Hunt to shine as an AFL player in the mould of a Jonathan Brown. Hunt might make a useful utility player off half back.
If Folau succeeds down the track you won’t watch him becuase he is rugby league player playing AFL, you will watch him because he is an good/great AFL player. At least that is the only fan drawing benefit to signing Folau.
June 8th 2010 @ 9:03am
The Link said | June 8th 2010 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Mark – agree Falou is a bizzare choice, given he hasn’t played footy in Sydney for 6-7 years and he’s known as a QLD’er.
Can only assume he was 2nd prize after Hayne.
June 8th 2010 @ 9:55am
Hoy said | June 8th 2010 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Don’t you think Folou (and Hunt) will always be a league player Red?
Lote played Union for longer than he played league, however in my mind he was always a convert. There was nothing that could take that out of my mind.
Just a thought.
June 8th 2010 @ 9:55am
Baz35 said | June 8th 2010 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Hunt is far more likely to play at a higher level because he is actually a footballer. He played for australia as a 19 year old playing in a footballers position.
Falou is not a footballer. Maybe he’ll learn how to kick, maybe he’ll develop some adequate level of endurance, maybe he’ll be able to develop awareness of a 360 degree game after playing a very one dimensional role in League…unlikely though
Falou may play a serviceable back up ruck/forward role like that Pyke does (more of a footballer by the way) but to mention Jonathon Brown in the same sentence is laughable. Even JB took years to develop consistency playing the hardest position on the ground (CHF). Put him in the ruck for 30% of the game and sit him in the goal square for 30% of the game…best you can hope for with IF
It seems after 3 years you are still can’t escape the cult of sheedy!
June 8th 2010 @ 10:08am
JK said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:08am | Report comment
“Hunt is far more likely to play at a higher level because he is actually a footballer. He played for australia as a 19 year old playing in a footballers position.”
Hunt played for the Olyroos ?
June 8th 2010 @ 10:50am
Baz35 said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Nah, full back for the Kangaroos.
June 8th 2010 @ 10:09am
Mark Young said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Hi Redb
You are right. if he suceeds down the track we won’t watch him because he is a league player, we will because he is a good/great AFL player.
So why spend so much money on him? Why is he the highest earning player in your game? They could have taken the cash from him, and used it to sign three terrific young players.
This is an enormous waste of cash with Izzy being the sole beneficiary.
Have a good day mate
June 8th 2010 @ 10:22am
Redb said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Mark,
As I said from a fan perpsective this is the factor, however, the marketing, recrutiment side is another kettle of fish and we all know there are two elements.
cheers
June 8th 2010 @ 1:39pm
JVGO said | June 8th 2010 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
There is only one real element, marketing.
June 8th 2010 @ 3:48pm
Jay said | June 8th 2010 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
I actually started (and continue) to watch rugby union due to the fact that high profile leaguies went across. There are a number of synergies between the codes and I continue to watch today. While I didnt ‘follow’ these players across, the publicity generated got me curious/interested in union.
As for AFL, Im sure many people will take a look that previously didnt. Whether they stay is another point.. I watched many Swans games in 05, but now I cant even watch one full quarter. The game is fundementally different to league, and Im not sure that many people will stick with it, so to say.
June 8th 2010 @ 8:46am
johnny-boy said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:46am | Report comment
I disagree Spiro. Playing rugby or league or AFL is not actually all that difficult (it sure as hell aint rocket science) and if you are a great athlete with great ball skills and great dedication you have a b…. good chance of making it. Amusingly a lot of would be’s if could be’s (as well as elite players) think being a good footy player is next to godliness.
What did they say about SBW when he switched ? Now the All Blacks no less are clambering to sign him up.
June 8th 2010 @ 9:17am
kovana said | June 8th 2010 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Why is this in the Rugby section?
June 8th 2010 @ 9:27am
Joel said | June 8th 2010 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Who cares, they’ve already served their purpose. The more defensive stories like this are written, the more sure I am that the AFL has done the right thing. It’s been money well spent.
June 8th 2010 @ 10:22am
Mark Young said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Hi Joel
What purpose have they served?
As far as I can tell, they have been recruited on enormous salaries to popularise the games in their areas, and get more people watching them on TV. Is that how you see it?
Fans don’t follow players, they follow clubs. Which club do you support? If your star player left would you go and follow them for their new team? Or would you stick with your current team? League has had more talented and marketable players leave and the game has not suffered.
But what about Junior Sport and how he will bring more youngsters into the game. Twenty years ago, there were twice as many kids playing soccer then any of the contact sport. Even today they still have a significant majority of junior players. Has that translated in domination by Football? Is the A-League our number one comp?
But what about the adverse publicity that has been all over the paper? Do you mean like the adverse publicity League has gotten for the past ten years with players peeing, raping, assaulting, vomiting and generally making pigs of themselves in general public? Is it worse that that publicity which the sport has endured and fingers crossed put behind them.
So yes, League has lost better players, had worse publicity and had less juniors then what this has done, and it has cost the AFL a chunk of their $$$ to fire a meaningless shot across the bow.
As Redb pointed out, the best they can hope for Israel is that he becomes a good AFL player in his own right, and they could have gotten a player to do that for about a third of the cash.
Sorry to rant mate, I just think this is the biggest waste of $$$ since Kevin tried to insulate my house and build a new school canteen.
Have a good day mate!
June 8th 2010 @ 12:47pm
Michael C said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
did you see Kevin Sheedy on Q&A last night on the ABC……ask why the ABC is running that topic and Sheed’s on Q&A??
June 8th 2010 @ 1:02pm
ItsCalledFootball said | June 8th 2010 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
The ABC has been infiltrated by Aussie Rules people and is AFL biased now and works very closely with the Aussie Rules marketing head Dr Colin McLeod and Jennifer Watt the General Manager AFL marketing.
Why else would you have Greedy on a program like that about western Sydney – he has never lived there.
They should have had rugby league legends or rugby legends or football legends who have lived in western Sydney all their life talking about Western Sydney.
Yet another AFL/ABC marketing stunt.
June 8th 2010 @ 1:38pm
JF said | June 8th 2010 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Totally agree ICF, that was disgraceful by the ABC – how is “The AFL” not a commercial brand? Sheedy got a massive free hit of advertising on the ABC last night, thats all it was – how is that impartial and unbiased from the ABC? This following years of AFL bias on ‘Offsiders’ – I urge you all to write a letter of complaint to the ABC.
http://www.abc.net.au/contact/complain.htm
June 8th 2010 @ 11:41pm
ItsCalledFootball said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:41pm | Report comment
Here is a list of Victorians who have recently been appointed senior positions within ABC Promotions and Marketing areas.
Liz Green – Head of Marketing ABC Digital TV
Warwick Tiernan – Head of marketing ABC Radio
Mark Hemetsberger, Marketing Strategist, ABC RADIO
Sue Lester – Head, television marketing and promotions
Michael Ebeid, Head of corporate strategy and marketing
They have all had dealings with the AFL in their previous positions down in Melbourne and are all sympathetic to Aussie Rules.
June 8th 2010 @ 2:43pm
Mark Young said | June 8th 2010 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Hi Michael
I didn’t watch it, what did they say??
June 8th 2010 @ 2:58pm
Michael C said | June 8th 2010 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
full transcript here
June 8th 2010 @ 4:49pm
Mark Young said | June 8th 2010 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Hmm, Maybe i should address my rant at Joel towards Kevin Sheedy who obviously thinks differently!
I’ll say it again,
There are better players with higher profiles…..
The Juniors have been in other sports for at least twenty years….
And League has endured worse publicity.
It is a monumental waste of $$ and a stupid thing to do.
How many League players did the Swans need to become a strong team?
None! they actually spent the money on AFL heads like Lockett, Barassi and Eades to establish themselves.
June 8th 2010 @ 5:48pm
JVGO said | June 8th 2010 @ 5:48pm | Report comment
Sydney as the premier career destination in Australia is full of AFL expats, especially in the professions like journalism and media. Magney the prime anti NRL journo at the Herald was one. Willesee and Geraldine Doogue are other examples who came through the ABC. The Swans main market and supporters are these middle class expats.
RL as a working class game is less represented in the professions and has natural enemies right through the ruling class of Sydney, even into the Labour Party who tend to align with the ABC culture. This is one reason that AFL and RU are relatively overfunded for their popularity in Sydney as they have more access to the inside corporate money. GWS is another thing all together. The population is less middle class and there are negligible southern expats. It is RL heartland where people have been fighting for the code against corporate interests for 20 years. Good luck.
June 9th 2010 @ 7:51pm
Dynamite Dan said | June 9th 2010 @ 7:51pm | Report comment
JVGO, all you talk about is this “fight” by league people against coporate interference, and seem to think this has been successful? But league is half-owned by News Limited – doesn’t seem very successful to me. In fact, it shows you how weak league is. There’s no way News Limited could take over the Australian Rugby Union, for example. Australian rugby would be isolated internationally and they would be kicked out of the Super 15 and the IRB. That’a real strength. Of the two rugby codes, rugby union is the game owned by the people, of the people, for the people because it is run democratically and is free from News Limited.
June 10th 2010 @ 3:24am
JVGO said | June 10th 2010 @ 3:24am | Report comment
We forced them to compromise. As I say the relationship is very uneasy and hopefully will be rationalised very soon in the interests of the game.
Professional RU in OZ was bankrolled entirely by News at its inception at the same time as Super League. With RL News virtually bought half the league and created the split whereas with RU there wasn’t really anything professional to buy yet, they had to create it from scratch, they needed the RU to do that.
June 8th 2010 @ 10:11am
Richard said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:11am | Report comment
From your article it sounds like Australian Football is harder to play than some of the rusted on fans of other codes would have had us believe. Nevertheless I wish Hunt and Folau well. They have already succeeded at other games at a young age yet have the courage to now step up and try their hand at the great Australian game. I hope they and their teams succeed, that more will try it as a result and discover what a terrific game it is to play.
June 8th 2010 @ 10:41am
todd said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
another interesting article spiro, you’ll stir up the hornets nest with this one ! I am fan of both codes and Rugby Union as well. There are closed ties between league and Union and neither bear any resemblance to AFL. What I think Hunt, Falou, et al will struggle with is the required visionary apects of the 360 degree game. I think they can both be trained to mark and mark up as well as kick from a set position. What will trouble them is the quick disposals both by hand and foot as well as the 360 degree awareness when in possession. There will also be issues with the tacke in footy which must aim for the torso.
However their success is academic as both GWFC and GCFC have already achieved their aim from a marketing perspective, even if both fail at the actual game.
June 8th 2010 @ 10:42am
eric said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:42am | Report comment
You’re right Spiro, Folau would have to lose 10kgs, develop more stamina as opposed to explosive strength, and learn to kick!! However, I think AFL young players in the draft are chosen for athletic ability first and skills second. In any AFL game you will see a lot of woeful kicks that land nowhere near their target, and a lot of players unable to get a kick away on their wrong foot, but they can run all day.
I suspect Folau may be a bit lik Sonny Bill, not too fast between the ears, and not getting very good advice. Hunt is a lot more street smart.
June 8th 2010 @ 12:13pm
Michael C said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Folau’s weight full stop isn’t the concern – - he weights the same as guys like Lance Franklin and Tom Hawkins who are similar heights,
this is the thing that a lot of Rugby people just don’t get – - – AFL guys are not tall, skinny weaklings – - they’re just differently tuned athletes.
Now – - aerobic fitness is one of the easier physiological aspects to ‘change’ or to uptrain – - Folau and Hunt will get ‘retuned’, but, niether necessarily has to go out and drop 10kgs overnight,…….but, that said, they probably need to drop a bit off their legs and redistribute it.
ALSO – -muscle tends to be more compact and therefore heavier per unit of human body ‘volume’ than fat. NRL players tend to carrier an extra layer of fat compared to AFL guys – - – in part to help absorb collisions,
this in part explains the difference in apparent bulk when the weight is very similar.
btw – Storm coach Craig Bellamy reckons that Folau was very ‘sports smart’ – - he worked hard and took on instructions very well (i.e. didn’t need drilling over and over and over again…….).
Main thing though – - is their skills early days may hold up in the early parts of games and quarters – - but as fatigue kicks in is when most peoples skills and decision making under pressure suffers and sloppy kicks and turn overs occur. There’s a reason games and quarters go as long as they do – - it’d be a vastly different thing is the game was 4 * 15 min qrtrs.
June 8th 2010 @ 3:10pm
oikee said | June 8th 2010 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
I think your running out of cattle M.C plain and simple. Apart from a couple of top teams, you would not pay to watch these weak cattle run around. They are getting younger, skinnier and weaker. Your breeding a colony of weaklings.
Not cream-puffs.
Keep the check-book handy, rugby league is fast tracking a whole new wave of juniors for the afl sideshow. Bigger, stronger and twice the speed.
June 8th 2010 @ 3:43pm
Michael C said | June 8th 2010 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
you reckon??
that’s only the North Melbourne……..hang on, did I say that!!!
Reality – anytime I whinge that we’re a team of kids in a development phase, I just have to think back to 1984 when North Melb lost a heap of aged stars and suddenly pushed up half a dozen or more under 19s in short time and we were a team of kids……..it happened then, it happens now.
btw – were the NRL recruiters out surveying the AFL national under 18 championships when played up at Blacktown??……to identify the salmon that John West would reject so they could have a nibble at them?? (to beat the NFL!!).
June 8th 2010 @ 8:33pm
pike64 said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:33pm | Report comment
Please MC. AFL players these days are just short basketballers who have middle distance running ability. Any contact in the AFL game these days is entirely incidental. Just look at the tribunal wipe outs for incidents that would be considered extremely minor in the NRL. What nobody has considered so far is that players like Folau & Hunt cannot attack the ball or the player in AFL as they did in the NRL. They would give away a free kick every time. How long before some sort of frustration sets in…