On the upside, the Wallabies can only get better
By Brett McKay, 8 Jun 2010 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Luke Burgess, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies
It was yet another brisk winter’s night that greeted the return of International rugby to Canberra on Saturday night. Real brisk, beer-not-needing-a-fridge brisk. And coming out into these near-Antarctic conditions were noted ice-runners, Fiji. I know I said this last week, but Fiji, in Canberra, in June? Come on…
Anyway, Fiji it was, and in Canberra they were, and if there was to be any consolation for the islanders, it was that at least the mercury stayed in positive territory, unlike what the Italians endured last year.
I was certainly thankful for picking the seats high up in the western grandstand, rather than our usual digs down on the concourse.
Returning too, for the Fijians was the ever-mercurial Rupeni Caucaunibuca, who at the top of his game in the mid-Naughties was among the very best wingers in the world. Since then though “Caucau” has descended in the ranks due to off-field issues and a general lack of desire.
He’s been playing France for the last few years, but wanted to use this game as a starting point on the road to next year’s Rugby World Cup.
You couldn’t help but notice Caucau on the field either, not because of what he did with the ball, but more that there was just so much of him to notice. Apparently, he’s even shed seven or eight kilos since coming into camp for this Test, so I shudder to think what he looked like on arrival.
Either way, his jersey still needed a few ‘X’s on the label.
It was a pity too, because I had said during the week that it would be great to see him in open space once again.
The reality, though, was that there just wasn’t space open enough to accommodate him. He’s definitely enjoyed the cuisine in France by the looks of him. Let’s hope he can regain the necessary fitness to gain a berth for one of the Australian Super 15 sides, as he’s declared he’s chasing.
This Test failed to reach any real heights of excellence, which isn’t too big a surprise considering it was the first game of the international season. While it wasn’t unexpected that Fiji would regress into sevens mode at times, such is their want and preference, the surprise would be that the Wallabies would try to match them in this instinctive type of play.
While the Wallabies are blessed with players of immense instinct, like Quade Cooper and Digby Ioane, all too often the unnecessary pass would be pushed, usually resulting in dropped ball or other unforced errors.
The Wallabies’ set piece was rather hot and cold initially, though by midway through the second half they were being virtually unchallenged by the Fijians, in the lineout especially.
The Fijians held their own in the scrum contest too, and the loss of Ben Alexander with a knee injury in the second half would be another prop headache that Robbie Deans doesn’t need with England waiting for them in Perth.
At the breakdown, I got the impression the Wallabies were a bit gun-shy and seemed to be holding back, as if to counter the continual second-phase play of the Fijians.
Too often, the Fijians were allowed to pop a pass in the tackle, which allowed them to keep making metres up the middle. What ultimately let them down were their options with ball in hand, with the attack regularly killed off by nothing little kicks in behind the Wallabies defence.
You do have to give them points for persistence, but works in sevens doesn’t often carry over with eight extra players per side.
In the end though, the scoreboard shows seven converted tries to nil, and while the collective effort of the Wallabies would be flattered by the 49-3 score line, there were still some outstanding individual performances.
Quade Cooper’s long pass is something I could watch all day. The way he draws the defenders before letting rip with this perfectly spiralling work of art just begs to be run on to at pace.
His short game’s not bad either, highlighted no better than the ball that put debutant Rob Horne through a massive gap in the lead-up to Richard Brown’s try on halftime. Cooper had a strong game at flyhalf, more importantly, and the Wallabies won’t be let down by keeping him in the number 10.
David Pocock was in everything for the hour he was on the field, and while showing that George Smith might not be missed at all, he also showed that he’s a potential captain in waiting.
It was surprising the number of times we saw Pocock giving the forwards a rev up, and indeed, after one try he quite deliberately called the whole team together to ensure they never gave the Fijians a sniff.
Nathan Sharpe was named man-of-the-match at the ground, which surprised us as we’d made comment through the game that he seemed to be quiet.
On viewing the tape, though, it wasn’t hard to see why, as Sharpe played a really strong game in the tight stuff, and was a constant target in the lineout.
Scrumhalf Luke Burgess has been a constant target of critics this season, and much of it well warranted, but I actually thought he was pretty solid on Saturday night.
Whilst he still had his moments taking the poor option, his delivery to Cooper was on the money for the most part, and allowed Cooper plenty of time to do what he does best. If I do have one criticism of his display, it was that he would often stand too long at the ruck with the ball at his feet, which just allows the defence to settle.
However he plays though, Burgess is going to be a polarizing player, and I noted the critics still lined him up on The Roar on Sunday. It’s funny how different people see the same thing differently.
I’m happy to view him the same way as the Australian coach; it was telling, in my opinion, that Josh Valentine wasn’t used.
Without question, the dewy conditions didn’t help this game – a prime reason for daytime Tests, in Canberra especially – but there’s still plenty the Wallabies have to work on. In fact, the Wallabies can really only improve from this first outing.
The Wallabies’ scrum, work at the breakdown, and overall execution is still a long way off where they’d want it, and much improvement is needed for the long upcoming international season.
And starting with England this coming week, they’ll need it.
Follow Brett McKay on Twitter: @BMcSport
Enjoy sports? Enjoy a bargain? All Sports Online has your favourite sporting brands at up to 70% off. Online only, premium quality sporting goods and merchandise at discounted prices. Get a deal now.
Do you have what it takes to become a sports writer? Write for the roar
Rugby Union articles
- Will Super Rugby crowds continue their slide? (201)
- Will South African rugby force a Super 21 by 2018? (173)
- The real story of how John O’Neill turned Manchester City down (70)
- Dan Parks and the unsolved questions of expat rugby (65)
- Australian teams at Super disadvantage (58)
- Pocock set to be named new Force skipper (56)
- Can the ‘Tahs win the battle after losing the Waugh? (51)
- France turns to Parra and Trinh-Duc
- Rebels look to lift for formidable Blues in rugby trial
- Mr Fix-It Lucas wants to nail down No.10
- Force roost loses ‘Mother Hen’ Sharpe
- Victory beat Mariners with Kewell winner
- Waratahs romp to 83-5 trial win over Samoa A
- Quade Cooper’s return to the Reds goes up a gear
- Wales show Southern Hemisphere how to play running rugby (29)
- What opening matches of Six Nations taught us (19)
- Will Super Rugby crowds continue their slide? (202)
- Clinical Chiefs cost rusty Rebels in Corio (9)
- Six Nations shows rugby is a parochial game at heart (5)
- Goose’s Super Rugby up-and-comer XV for 2012 (29)
- What does the future hold for the Six Nations (50)
- Explore:
- Luke Burgess, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies

kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 6:03am | Report comment
It seems as if most of the players named as performing well: Cooper, Ioane, Beale, Pocock, Horne are the youngest and most recent additions to the team. This obviously means some kind of generational change is going on, but what’s interesting is that they seem on the verge of pushing out an older generation, Barnes, Ashley-Cooper, Mitchell, who really aren’t that old!
Does this indicate a great possibility, that Australia is starting to recruit more, better players as junior level than before? If the subsequent generation are taking the places of players just two or three years older, what will the next one, now only 18-19 be like?
So I agree that the signs are good from this opener.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 6:19am | Report comment
yeah well KPM, you could well be right. The “next wave” I guess would a be lot of those currently off playing the U20 World Champs under David Nucifora. I think I read it right over the weekend that Australia’s side is among the youngest squads there, and includes the like of To’omua, Morahan, Turner, Jones, C.Faingaa; names we’ve already seen a bit from this year..
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 6:43am | Report comment
Brett of course the distance from the World Cup is exaggerated: at least one or two more completely new players should have emerged by autumn 2011.
I’m not sure about the last line in your article ‘And starting with England this coming week, they’ll need it.’ Anything less than a 30 point margin should be a failure against this laughing stock of an English team! If Johnny Wilkinson plays, you can make that 50.
It’s worth noting that regarding the Tri-nations, New Zealand also have some dangerous looking new players arriving: Vito, Ranger, Whitehead, Cruden, and with the return to form of Rokocoko and the arrival of SBW, they look threatening. South Africa oddly are the team who appear not to be producing many startling new players. Maybe they capitalised last year on the Wallabies and New Zealand being in transitory phases and will be put in their rightful place this year? Let’s hope so, they’re by far the most boring team to watch.
JohnP said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Surprised that Kurtley Beale did not warrant a mention as having a good game. Despite one knock on, which many articles have focused on (see “a nervy start” in Spiro’s evaluation) he showed just why he is so dangerous. He is as close to Billy Slater as a rugby union player is going to get, he has an innate ability to inject himself into attack, which is maybe linked to his background in league and also perhaps his playing background at 10. It was great to see him sniping in and around Coopers inside and outside shoulders leading to a nice inside ball try. But at the same time involving himself out wider, resulting in a nice Cooper wide ball and his first test try. With his strong kicking game, and blistering attack, Australia will be well served keeping him at 15.
Must say however, I still remain a critic of using Giteau at 12–i think the generational change needs to come through with a hard ball running 12 rather than Giteau who continues to kick, step (and thereby lose the pace of Coopers attack) and then maybe pass wider. It was extremely evident that Hornes brutal pace and linebreaking potential was wasted by playing outside Giteau, Horne looked his most dangerous when running off a short ball from Cooper. Why not move Horne into 12, and Ioane into 13. This gives the Wallabies some great ball runners to feed of Coopers playmaking, space creating brillance. When this is coupled with Genia’s playmaking qualities (as opposed to Luke “loves to look at the Ball” Burgess) it will be a question of who will run through the gaps, not who will make the gaps. This would open up the wings for Mitchell and AAC (when he is fit) and Peter Hynes can cover as well. That would be a great back line imho.
As far as props go, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Wallabies front row, under Noriega defy a lot of critics and hold the Poms in Perth this Saturday. Noriega seems to have built depth in an area that Australia have been weak for many years now, think of how we destroyed South Africa last year and England on the end of year tour. I honestly think that Weeks, Daley and Faingaa should play together, Ma’afu was sluggish and Huia edmonds seems content to sit wide rather than get stuck in. The addition of Taf will be welcome.
If it is a dry fast track, I think the Poms might be in for a pasting…
Colin N said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:29am | Report comment
“As far as props go, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Wallabies front row, under Noriega defy a lot of critics and hold the Poms in Perth this Saturday.”
It’s not really the problem. Before the injuries to Robinson and Alexander, I wouldhave said that Australia would have had an upper hand in this area, but these issues now neutralise a potential strength. This comes to my next point:
“If it is a dry fast track, I think the Poms might be in for a pasting…”
The best part of this England side is arguably in the backs and according to the team, they are looking to play an up-tempo game on Saturday like they did against France.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Hi John, you are quite right about Beale and he did indeed play pretty well after recovering from a shaky start. You shouldn’t read too much into him not getting a mention, I also didn’t mention Horne in any detail, or Elsom and Alexander, and all of them all played strongly too. Had I mentioned everyone, you might still be reading now.
I’ll just add that I would rather no unforced positional changes for a while now, I’d rather see combintaions starting to develop. Cooper and Giteau played well together, and were well served runners from the inside and outside, particularly Horne, Ashley-Cooper and Ioane. I know we’ve all got our thoughts on where guys should and shouldn’t play, but I think it’s just time to start developing the First XV…
warrenexpatinnz said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
pretty good points JP and it seems that we have a glut around the backs which is making it difficult to slot Barnes and Gitteau in. With that you also have AAC and O’Connor who have yet to hold a fixed position.
I am wondering whether Burgess can link with Cooper in a way that means no matter were Cooper is standing that is where the ball goes thus negating the need for Burgess to study options before passing.
I would assume Genia and Burgess are training together once Genia running again so I would like to think Burgess will take how Genia plays onboard.
Completely agree re the forwards and don’t expect the front row to be any less than solid tonight as Noriega has transformed the mental aspect of the front row to one of self belief, even when they pack one or two poor ones as I have yet to see the Aussie scrum over the last twelve months ‘lose’ a 80 minute scrum battle.
jiggles said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:09am | Report comment
John,
I think the hard hitting 12 you are looking for is one A. Faianga.
He was a real revelation at the reds this year and it will be interesting to see how he goes tonight for the barbars.
however I do agree with Brett thinking its time to develop a first XV and not making changed for the sake of changes. bring faianga on tour and play him in more mid week games, see how he does then along with next years super 15. if there is an injury to Giteau however I would like to see him slot in and not Barnes.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:35am | Report comment
and Jiggles, the more games like tonights Barbarians clash, and the midweek tour games can certainly help build that squad depth. But yeah, no changes just for change’s sake, that’s well put…
Ben said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:20am | Report comment
I would leave inane on the wing and look at horn and chambers together in the centers at 12 and 13…..wouod be a real handful
Ben J said | June 8th 2010 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
What a crock kingplaymaker, the most boring team to watch is the one producing the results. The so called “dangerous” players you are referring to such as Ranger et al will have to prove themselves at international level first. Yes they are good runners but it is how they will respond to under pressure that will define whether they are a liability or an asset. At this stage I reckon that Ranger is a possible hothead that will either ignite or implode on the international stage. I am happy for the Boks that they do not have to resort to players like that to shore up dwindling centre stocks. SBW is the unknown factor here, I would feel very uncomfortable if I were an AB supporter that so much emphasis is put on his signing that the AB headcoach acts as an tour guide to his agent.
johno said | June 9th 2010 @ 6:32am | Report comment
Huh? SA hasn’t produced any staring new players, have you been watching ballet whilest the super 14 was on?
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:22am | Report comment
‘Ioane into 13′ thereby robbing the wing department of by its best practitioner. Ioane is necessary to continue the attack created on the inside. Any combination of Mitchell, Turner and Hynes is distinctly low on quality.
Apelu Tielu said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Brett, Burgess played his best game last Saturday, but he still was not up to test standard. You mentioned one annoying aspect of his game, standing like a sentinel with the ball at his feet at the back of a ruck/scrum while the defence gets organised. But the basic, his passing, is still weak. QC needs the ball in front of him to run onto, not straight to him and over his head. Valentine has a much better pass, and I was surprised he was not used. In fact, a few of the reserves were not used. Perhaps, Dingo was thinking about the mid-week game against England. But the Wallabies look very promising, with many quality players not on show on Saturday. I think the future looks very exciting.
warrenexpatinnz said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:50am | Report comment
AT I was suprised as well that Valentine didn’t get a go but as the run on instead of possibly coming off the bench. He needs some agressive first half experinces to bring him up and agianst the Fijians would have been a good acid test.
But as we all know Genia is the key to giving Cooper that front foot ball which inturn will cause a domino affect which speeds up through to Gitts, Horne and Ioanne/Mitchell.
The try that the Wallabies scored in the second half where Mitchell passed to Cooper, Cooper to Gitteau then Gitteau back to Mitchell showed just how good this combinational play bewteen the Wallaby backs will get with some more game time.
Would suggest a Weepu, Carter and Stanley/Smith combo would also be pretty impressive, throw in Jane and it has bloody good potential.
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 8:55am | Report comment
warren any domino affect would be come to a standing stop the moment the ball arrived at Mitchell, or indeed Hynes and Turner. Someone better must be found.
warrenexpatinnz said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Kingplayer do you not think Mitchell’s play has improved greatly this year, by that I mean his breaking the line and finishing. His one on one tackling still needs work though as on saturday led with a low shoulder hit and ended up with a stinger.
If the three you mentioned were out would the likes of O’Connor and Davies (if selected and fit) would be better choices or throw in a bigger unit like Chambers?
Peter K said | June 8th 2010 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
warren, kingplaymaker has a closed mind in regards of those players.
It is clear Mitchell has really improved.
His short time on the field against Fiji was all class. Scored a good try, made breaks, linked and passed well.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 9:02am | Report comment
see Apelu, this is what I mean when I say “It’s funny how different people see the same thing differently.” I read a lot of the comments about Burgess on Sunday morning, and then watched the replay looking for this particularly, but I just didn’t see it like the comments made out. Yes, there were a few passes that went a bit high or low, but I don’t recall Cooper ever having to adjust his stride to take the pass.
I’ve just had a quick trawl for no results, but one of the local rugby sites had some passing stats for Burgess, and the vast majority were on target, with a few low or high, which pretty much matches how I saw it…
reds fan said | June 8th 2010 @ 9:46am | Report comment
On target and going straight to the man is one thing, but the Reds backline built their game on passing in front of the man so that the speed of the backline was maintained. Burgess still needs to get that working a bit better.
On a separate point, I see alot of comments where people paste Peter Hynes. I’m wondering if any of these people watched any of the Reds matches this year. In his first full year at 15, he was outstanding. His ability to consistently make 30-50m from kick returns was wonderful to watch. With a number of them resulting in long range tries. I have seen analysis of potential Wallaby 15′s on another site and Hynes had the overall best Super rugby stats in attack and defence for any of the Oz teams. What more does he have to do??
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:11am | Report comment
reds fan play as well as that at the higher, international level, which in my opinion he never has. Besides, the Wallabies should aim higher than his at best competent talent. Digby Ioane or players of his attacking ability should be the goal.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Reds, I’d expect to see Hynes before too long actually, I’d imagine he’d be in the 1st XV for the TNs. Whether Ashley-Cooper stays on the wing or Hynes does, I’m not sure, but I’d expect a back three of Ashley-Cooper, Hynes, and Mitchell…
JohnP said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Would disagree for points below.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:22am | Report comment
and KPM’s just reminded me of Ioane….
The back three will come from Ashley-Cooper, Hynes, Mitchell, and Ioane
Apelu Tielu said | June 8th 2010 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
The back three need full-back skills: field the high ball, kick, and counter. While I like Ioane (good to hear Gordon Bray pronounced his name correctly), he does not have the first two. I think AAC and Hynes are the best we have, then it’s a toss-up between Turner and Mitchell for the other wing. Ioane should either be a starting 13 or on the bench, unfortunately.
Peter K said | June 8th 2010 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Giteau went well but not sensational at 12.
His worst trait is the order he looks to do things is 1) kick 2) run 3) pass when it should be other way around, the ball got past Giteau in spite of him and most times after he ran sideways.
SO Horne should be at 12. Move Ioane to 13. AAC to F/B. Mitchell and Davies as the wingers.
OR
Horne 12, Chambers 13, Mitchell and Ioane wingers and AAC F/B.
JK said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:20am | Report comment
That’s the beauty of the Roar RF, I rate Burgess and think the critics are too harsh, one the other hand I’d have Hynes in ahead of Beale, go figure.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:29am | Report comment
JK, I’m with you 100% there, but I will say Beale has impressed me since switching to fullback…
Peter K said | June 8th 2010 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
brett – I noted this re burgess on the other column.
I thought he had his best game for a long time, most passes were accurate and most were quick.
Most haters refuse to see what actually happens and focus on the 1 or 2 bad passes and say thats a typically bad game.
I noted that he did not crab sideways and take time and space away like Gregan and Valentine do.
Cooper had time and space so that must be thanks to Burgess.
A few of the bad passes were from other players when Burgess was under the ruck having sniped.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Peter, I’m still trying to find the passing stats I mentioned above, but I’ve come up empty so far, and it’s annoying me!
As I mentioned, I watched the replay on Sunday having read a lot of those comments, and I just couldn’t find what was being suggested. Even live on Saturday night I thought his delivery was quite good, and it gave Cooper plenty of time to throw his beautiful pass onto runners or Giteau stationed wider (or Giteau stationed on the end of Fijian shoulders, as was the case once or twice!).
I don’t get it, honestly, I don’t. This isn’t about Burgess being as good or better than Genia, who is possibly a once-in-a-generation scrumhalf (and still just 22). But I think Burgess has more than laid decent claim to being the no.2 no.9….
Nashi said | June 8th 2010 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
Brett, I must say I am with you and Peter K here. Out of sheer boredom I just watched the England v AUS test at Twickenham from last year and I noted how many times Genia gave poor service to both Gits and Cooper. Many passes were high, few were perfection. I was very carefully watching the Fiji game looking at Burgess and thought his passing was acceptable. At times he was dragged into rucks too often and was not ready to deliver. Also he seemd static at the back of a ruck. The question one has to ask is why he didn’t deliver the pass as he was clearly ready to do so. Let’s not forget he has never played with Cooper before at 10 and perhaps Burgo has to get used to his positioning.
Anyway I’m still perplexed by some of the vitriolic comments but hey everyone is entitled to their opionion, don’t get me wrong Genia is the premier 9 in AUS by some margin, but his strengths are different from Burgo. So often Will seems to take the right option, something Burgess struggles with.
JohnP said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:18am | Report comment
@reds fan. very valid point re: Hynes at 15 he certainly was great at 15 for the Reds. Thinking back over his season, visions of him roaring it back (rather than aimlessly kicking it) and linking with his wingers, or Chambers or Cooper comes to mind. He certainly is positionally good, I think he may be better than Beale right now, but the question is whether or not he will be better than Beale if Beale is given the game time he needs at this level. I tend to agree with kingplaymaker, whilst Hynes is a great 15, I dont believe that he will be the gamebreaker that Kurtley will develop into. I think that this tension between current brilliance and future (RWC 2011) brilliance is what pushed out George Smith for Pocock, Baxter for Robinson, Moore for Taf, Burgess for Genia. Many of those players at that time where better players than the youngsters coming through, I just think that Robbie could see that for example Pocock given two to three seasons as incumbent 7 will go on to great things, and he is. So, I do not think you will see hynes at 15 in the wallabies jersey, injuries aside. As, warrenexpatinnz mentioned, he is the unfortunate casualty of a glut of talented (and young) backs in the Australian stocks.
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
all very valid points JP, I do agree with you. This time last year, a mate and I had a month-long debate about where Adam Ashley-Cooper was most valuable, and at the time I wondered if he was better value on the bench, coming on in the last 30 for tackle-breaking impact, etc. I wonder if Beale now fits that same equation??
reds fan said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Believe me I’m not writing off Beale. It’s actually very pleasing to finally see him settle into a position and to look very comfortable. He looks fantastic at 15. My only concerns at the moment is his error rate and ability under the high ball. I think these will continue to improve with time at Test level. Let’s not forget he only just started getting regular starts in the one position at super level. But if Hynes and Beale are the two sharing the back role… happy days. Add Ioane and AAC on the wings with Horne at 13 and you get a bunch of very good ball runners, and line breakers.
ideally for me, right now, and trying to win Bled.. its genia, coops, gits, Horne at 13, AAC and Ioane on the wings and Hynes at 15. Bench of Burgess, Mitchell and Beale. That way Mitchell can cover wing and 15. Beale can cover 12/15. Ioane and AAC can cover 13. And Hynes would be second cover for a wing with Beale taking over at 15. Gits covers 10, with Beale plugging 12 (not ideal… probably the one weak spot.. perhaps AAC could even move in with someone covering his wing).
I think you get the best coverage of spots, with best line breakers. It’s tough on JOC i think but i’m still not sold on him at test level.
reds fan said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Hynes not a game breaker??? His stats compared to AAC, Beale and JOC in super rugby say otherwise. More try assists in super rugby than any other oz full back. better defence than the rest, with lowest missed tackle rate. lowest error rate by a considerable margin. highest percentage of getting over the gain line. highest metres per run. second most tries.
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
reds fan super rugby is not international rugby. Hynes has never brought the same level of performance to the international arena despite abundant opportunity.
reds fan said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
oh gee… thanks for pointing out the obvious! but if we cant use super rugby performance as an indicator of a players performance or improvement, why the hell do they bother trying for 13 weeks?
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 10:28am | Report comment
JohnP a point I made earlier is that it could be that these young players represent not just a difference between current brilliance, and future brilliance, but between good and better.
Beale may be better than Hynes, Ioane better than Mitchell, Robinson than Baxter, Genia than Burgess, Cooper better than Barnes, Horne better than Ashley-Cooper. Despite the small age difference, this could mean that Australia are expanding their player numbers and hence developing BETTER young players rather than just more of the same standard.
I would say Ioane, Cooper and Giteau have one Tri-nations level of talent, while Mitchell, Turner and Hynes do not. The difference between excellent and fine. The Wallabies should be looking to field 7 excellent backs, 7 as JohnP says ‘gamebreakers’.
jiggles said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:23am | Report comment
KPM,
I agree with what you are saying, that australia should be going with the potential great younger backs over the just good slightly older backs…. with a few exceptions of course.
I am a huge Reds and Peter Hynes fan, and this year it has been so fantastic to see my team finally come alive, and Hynesy was one of the best at 15. However I just do not think he will ever be a great international player, as opposed to a great super 14/15 player.
Beale, while being a massive critic of in the past, I think is building nicely at 15 and I think throwing him in the heat of a tri-nations test match would be great for him. I think he is one good game against a quality team away from realising his potential… which is along time coming!
Turner has never impressed me apart from his first season, so really i have no issues with seeing him dropped. likewise with mitchell, although in saying this he has had a good season, but most of his tries were against weaker south african teams. he still goes missing in the big games.
in saying this my first choice wallabies back line is
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Giteau (I would love to see Faingaa in there but maybe its one season to early)
13 Horne (he impressed me on the weekend and if he can stay fit I think he will go a long long way)
14 AAC
15 Beale (if he folds under the 3Nations pressure its back to Hynes for me)
reserve/back up backs:
Chambers (I think Will and Horne could develop into a nice little rivalry over the years)
Mitchell
JOC
Hynes
Faingaa
jiggles said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Also when Davies is fit, AAC to fullback and Beale to the bench!
Sorry Beale!
reds fan said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
I love Rod Davies speed, but he has only just got his defence up to super rugby level. I’m not sure I want to be testing it out at Test level just yet.
jiggles said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Reds Fan,
I think Rod Davies made leaps and bounds in his defence this year. last year he was a shocker and I thought he should be back in 2nd grade.
Maybe he will bring it up a notch more, only time will tell
reds fan said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
I agree. not sure what he did in the off season but the improvement was fantastic. he certainly is a very exciting prospect. the sight of him taking a sneaky inside offload from quade and heading into the distance is a thing of beauty.
Hoy said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
I thought his defence this year was pretty poor really. Great set of rocket shoes, but can’t tackle a cold.
Red Rooster said | June 8th 2010 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Neither can Beale or Cooper on that criteria and ?Giteau as well
Who Needs Melon said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Davies is an easy one: Whether he is in the squad right now is a moot point. I’m sure we can all agree that he is one to keep an eye on and if he shows more improvement next Super season could easily be pushing incumbents for a wing spot.
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:35am | Report comment
jiggles an interesting point is how much potential Faiingaa has-obviously a players like Giteau has many virtues, but he is not a hulking monster. More importantly, he may fly the nest after the world cup, even get injured.
This is a nice backline, but I think it needs one more true gamebreaker in the far outside backs, a devastating strike runner like Ioane. But it’s getting there.
The desire many have to wish Hynes, Turner and Mitchell were top international players is probably based on the idea that it should be possible to make something of what you have, whatever it is. This is not always possible: if what you have is Ioane a top international player can be made of him, if it’s Turner, it cannot.
jiggles said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:47am | Report comment
KPM,
I think Turner could of been a great international player, but I think the gameplay at the Tahs has killed him. Turner has all the makings of a classy winger. Speed, strength, can change direction at pass, has a fairly solid kicking game, but for some reason he only shows it once every 10 or so games.
The Tahs plan for Turner seems to be “mate stay on your sideline and when the ball comes to you can have a little play!”
Imagine if he had a couple of years in a team like the reds where the outside backs are told to go hunting for the inside balls. the reds have been playing like this since Phil Mooney took the reigns, and it is starting to pay off with the added belief Link has installed. We could of been saying very different things about Turner right now if he had been in a team environment like the reds.
el gamba said | June 8th 2010 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Good reading Brett and good reading some of the comments. Foremost, I agree with your point that the first XV needs to be settled so that combinations can develop and lead to instinctive play. There will be for and againsts for inclusion of Hynes, AAC, JO’C and others but I think think that in the backs at least the pro’s and cons will largely outweigh each other and a stable lineup is more important.
I am not sure I agree with your thoughts on Burgess and think there is daylight between Genia and the next best. I think that Cooper made him look better than he was quite often catching the ball above his head or low without breaking stride. Crisper, more accurate passing may have given Cooper a tiny bit more time which would have helped considerably against a rushing flying Fijian defence. Mind you, developement of combinations in general will help here too.
I wasn’t sure about Dean Mumm, he seemed to be doing a lot of leaning and didn’t seem to want to commit and do the hard tight work. I was watching him at about the 60 minute mark and this was really notciable from then until the end. I would like to hear any other feedback on his performance.
Richard Brown seemed to try hard but seems to lose his feet a little easy for mine. This obviously affects his effectiveness (any thoughts?).
In terms of attitude, when Hodgson came on he was in everything – he is great to watch…
Brett McKay said | June 8th 2010 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
cheers Gamba, I completely missed this post today, so my apologies, but glad you enjoyed the read..
Jameswm said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Sorry guys but I have to rain on the Peter Hynes love-in.
I’d rate Ioane, MItchell, AAC, Davies, McCabe, Turner and Cummns all ahead of him as a winger, and Beale, JOC and AAC ahead of him as a fullback. Hynes does some nice things but he just isn’t tough or strong enough in contact I’m afraid. Those Reds games where you thought he excelled, I thought he was hesitant too often. Look at how Mitchell has come on this year in terms of his strength in contact – most tackle busts for the tournament I believe. And pace to burn. Ioane was superb on the weekend, as was AAC on the wing.
jiggles said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Jameswm,
If my memory serves me correctly (which it probably cannot!) Mitchell made most of his tackle busts and tries against the weak south african teams and went missing in the really big games. I would love to see some sats of Mitchell at a per game level to see who is big performances where at and where he went missing.
also on another point, I would only consider Hynes at 15 and Mitchell as a wing… so really its a moot point isn’t it?
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Jiggles and James are Turner and Mitchell really that great? Compare them to Ioane, to Sivivatu, to on-form Rokocoko, to Habana-Isn’t there a yawning chasm in talent? If Australia can produce one Ioane they should be able to find two.
jiggles said | June 8th 2010 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
KPM,
I think you are misunderstanding my comments.
1. Turner could of been great but I think his time at the Tahs has ruined him. he does have all the attributes of a classy winger but it somehow doesn’t seem to mesh.
2. Mitchell has improved this year, but I still think he isn’t good enough for the team. he goes missing in the big games. he is a good player, but not a great. Ioane is a definite starter on one wing and I think AAC has the other.