Who is the best number 10 of all time?
By Uncle Argyle, 21 Jun 2010 Uncle Argyle is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Grant Fox, Johnny Wilkinson, Martin Johnson, Rugby Union
Why does England not select Johnny Wilkinson, even if he is out of form. He is one of the greatest no 10’s ever to play the game of rugby. I guess selection is a matter for Martin Johnson and co to decide, but Wilkinson would be in my XV any day.
As I pondered further, my mind drifted off on to the subject of who really is the best number 10 to ever play the game?
I am sure this question has been asked, debated and disputed in bars and clubs from Dunedin to Dungannon over the decades.
So I asked myself the same question: Who really is the best 10 of all time?
Firstly, I racked my brain for candidates and instantly had a distant memory of Paul McLean of Australia, a general of Queensland and Wallaby backlines.
I watched old video of Ollie Campbell, Hugo Porto and the king of Cardiff, Barry John. I still remember a young Mark Ella carving up the home nations in 1984.
A try in every Test!
Who will ever forget tacticians such as Grant Fox, Andrew Merhtens and Michael Lynagh, or super boot, Naas Botha?
Each man has a rightful claim to considered as the best 10 of all time.
In more recent times, we have seen the emergence of the deceptive drift of Stephen Larkham, the super star Dan Carter and the masterful but injury plagued Johnny Wilkinson.
So who is it?
As my pondering delved further, I decided I could never go with McLean.
The man from the famous Brother’s rugby club in Brisbane had a great rugby brain and was tough as well. However, his poor performance with the boot on the 1981-82 Wallaby tour of the United Kingdom and Ireland precludes him from being the best.
But still, on his day, he was class.
I would have liked to have seen Hugo Porto play behind the 2003 English World Cup winning pack, with some Australian, French and Fijian backs outside him.
With no disrespect to Argentinean rugby, which has claimed some big scalps over the years, they are and have been minnows where Porto alone was a champion.
I saw him in 1983 at the Sydney Cricket Ground dissect Australia in a master class display of how a fly half should control a game.
Unfortunately, Hugo misses out. But for mine, he should always be considered when the question is asked: who is the best 10 of all time?
Ollie Campbell had pockets of brilliance, but again suffered a little in the same way as Hugo Porto did.
Ireland is a powerhouse of world rugby, but has not always had the consistency to truly rise to being champions of the world as they have the potential to be.
The characterisations of Irish rugby and Campbell to me are parallel: both tough, passionate and on their day, brilliant.
However, to be considered the best of all time you need consistency, which sadly both Ireland and Campbell lack.
Grant Fox was a tactician of the highest order.
As an Australian, I saw many Bledisloe Cups remain in the Shaky Isles as a result of Fox and his cunning.
A 1987 World Cup winner, Fox was a master boot and distributor and, on occasion, a fair runner of the ball. However, it is the later which in my mind precludes Fox from being the best.
Fox never scored an international try.
Why would he need to when he had the likes of Kirwan, Stanley and Gallagher at his disposal, and a pack in front of him that would scare a drunk out of a pub.
Fox was unlucky not to be awarded a try at Lansdowne Road in 1989, after a brilliant run into the far corner. However, the play was called back.
Sorry Foxy, you were a champion, but not the best of all time!
Compatriot Andrew Merthens was also a master tactician and technician of the fly half position. He could do everything: kick, pass, run and support.
These skills mixed with courage, passion and a never–say-die attitude made the South African-born Cantabrian a must for consideration.
But was there enough to call him the best? For me the answer is no.
I think Merhtens was almost robotic in his game. Although often flawless, I think he lacked the ‘X’ factor or individual brilliance that could turn a game like an Ella, Carter, John or Wilkinson could do.
I look at Mehrtens and Wallaby legend Michael Lynagh in the same light.
Lynagh was a superb player. He had balance, nous and a competitive spirit which saw Australia home in many Tests under his stewardship of the number 10 jumper.
I recall the 1991 World Cup quarter final against Ireland. With minutes to go and the Irish in the lead after a length of the field try finished by flanker Gordon Hamilton, Australia looked gone.
Lynagh, however, was not reading from that script. Story has it he told the Wallabies what was going to happen next.
Four phases later, Australia scores and the rest is history.
Lynagh was an underrated runner of the ball. I saw him carve up France in Paris when he decided to run the ball instead of kick: a brilliant display of running rugby at the twilight of the Lynagh-era which left me wondering why we didn’t see more of this before?
The man called ‘Noddy’ has earned the right to be called a legend of Australian rugby, but not the best 10 of all time as I actually don’t think we ever saw him realise his full potential.
If rugby was won on kicking alone, Naas Botha would be the best 10 of all time.
The Springbok with the golden helmet didn’t miss many and knew how to put his pack on the front foot. A sound runner of the ball at times, defensively, however, he made the French Army of 1940 appear competent at holding the line.
Perhaps I may be being a tad harsh on Naas, and due to apartheid perhaps we never saw the best of him at international rugby. However, what we did see was not enough for Naas to be called the the best 10 of all time.
So we are down to John, Carter, Ella, Larkham and Wilkinson.
Larkham was an enigma. An unlikely champion whose appearance made him appear more like a country boy in need of a good feed than a world class fly half.
He was a bag of bones when he first came onto the representative rugby scene.
I thought he would snap in his first warm up tackle. Did his parents know he was playing rugby this weekend?
However, I think it was this perception of Larkham that allowed him to do the things he actually did, which was his strength. Larkham simply was continually an under-estimated quantity for a large part of his career.
Only towards the latter part was he properly marked.
This underestimation coupled with a brilliant set of passing skills and the ability to maintain balance and speed whilst famously ghosting through astonished defensive lines, made the man the called ‘Bernie’ a joy to watch.
There are many things to remember about Larkham, most famously his drop goal at Twickenham in 1999 to sink the South Africans.
Was he the best of all time? Not for me.
There was not much to fault, and I think defensively Larkham was far from weak. However, he may not stack up against others under consideration.
Dan Carter is a superstar of the game. No doubt.
He is a complete 10: with vision, skill, toughness, and he is not a selfish player. I don’t think he overplays his hand at all.
He knows how to get the best out of his team mates, which makes for a fresh approach for a modern day 10.
Often the burden of being the fly half can make a player with such talent as Carter perhaps want to overplay his hand, but any Crusaders and All Blacks fan may think differently.
Another of Carter’s strengths is that he is an 80 minute player.
When a game is in the balance and something needs to happen, more often than not Dan Carter will be involved in that final play to seal his side a victory.
Carter has that ‘X’ factor to make something out of nothing and he has a presence on the park.
I think he is the best New Zealand has produced, but he falls short of being the best at the moment.
There is no doubt he has the ability to be the best of all time, yet his feats to date, for mine, don’t out-rank those of John, Ella or Wilkinson.
Barry John – The King of Cardiff. And why not! I have only ever seen video of him play, but what a player he was.
I think it was John’s ability to run at pace without necessarily stepping, but swerving and gliding through holes that should have not existed all the while carrying a water logged leather ball in two hands as if it was stuck to his hands with glue.
Mud did not seem to stick to Barry John, nor slow him down.
John was no doubt part of the golden era of Welsh Rugby in the 1970s and had many great players such as Ray Gravell, Steve Fenwick, Derek Quinell and JPR Williams alongside him.
However, for mine, John even shone over them.
I would have like to have seen more of John play, but what I have seen and read, John should be on one hand when considering the best 10s of all time.
He misses out today probably through my lack of knowledge of John completely, but as I said, he is highly respected.
If there was ever a shining light that burnt out too quickly it was Mark Ella.
Retired from international rugby at 25, but what an impact he made in his short career.
Ella, along with his Randwick counterparts, modernised the Australian running rugby game. He was a visionary of running rugby and knew where he needed to be phases before others could see how the game was unfolding.
No doubt Mark Ella’s crowning moment was his four tries during the 1984 Wallaby Grand Slam tour of the United Kingdom and Ireland.
Each try different, unique, yet each brilliant in their own way, involving skill, vision, support and the odd bit of cunning.
Just ask Eddie Butler of Wales, who actually called for the inside pass that later saw Ella glide over the Welsh line to secure a famous Wallaby victory.
Ella, like John, ran the ball in two hands, which often left defences in several minds – a skill near forgotten in the modern game.
He could pass short or long with great accuracy and timing, and had a good boot on him, as well.
If the movie “The Natural’ was about rugby, it have been made about Mark Ella.
However, Mark, as naturally gifted and brilliant you were, you just were not around long enough to say you were the best of all time.
Which leaves one: Jonny Wilkinson.
Yes, even as an Australian, it pains me to think that an Englishman is in my simple mind the best 10 of all time. I still have nightmares of 2003 and that drop goal.
However, I truly believe that Wilkinson is the complete 10. Some may say he is too injury prone, and I have to agree.
But it is not his injuries he should be judged on but his performances.
From the British Lions in 2001 to the 2003 Rugby World Cup, I had never seen a fly half who was so dangerous, not only in attack, but defence.
Wilkinson could hit like a tank.
Furthermore, he could take a hit. Time and time again Wilkinson put his body on the line and was thumped, and maybe it was this courage that contributed to the substantial injuries Wilkinson has sustained.
His kicking game is legendary.
His vision to make something happen was freakish. Even in the latter part of his career, when England lost to Australia at Twickenham in 2009, Wilkinson made an average English side look dangerous.
What also makes Wilkinson the best was his ability to make players around him play well.
There is an aura about Wilkinson.
He is the guy you want steering the ship; the guy you want marshalling your troops; the guy who wants the ball when the tough play needed to be made.
He leads by example and plays with heart, but also his head.
Not a foul player but just tough, powerful, precise and professional. So for me, it’s Johnny Wilkinson.
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June 21st 2010 @ 10:47am
Chris Beck said | June 21st 2010 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Cue the absolute flood of posts . . . .
For my money, having seen only Carter, Mehrtens, Larkham, and Wilkinson out of the above names, I’ve always preferred Larkham, because he’s got the running game and those beautiful long passes. He looks like he shouldn’t destroy you but he does.
Could one build a prototype #10 from the proverbial pieces out of a parts bin? How about Larkham’s running and passing, Carter’s kicking, and for defense how about Tony Brown, although I’ve got no particular complaints about Larkham in that regard.
November 18th 2011 @ 5:09pm
Gus Ahio said | November 18th 2011 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
Daniel Carter by the time he retires will be the best No 10 in History. He maybe ties with Johny wilkinson in the area’s of kicking and tackling, however Johnny Wilkinson cannot compete with Dan carter in areas of tactical play, passing, foot work and overall understanding of the game….
June 21st 2010 @ 11:42am
sheek said | June 21st 2010 @ 11:42am | Report comment
The one thing we can be absolutely certain of, is that this question will have no concensus. None whatsoever.
Of all the rugby positions, the number 10 cuts right to the very core of every fan, & he will pick the player he believes best delivers the style of rugby he most prefers. There are also country stereotypes, or cultural characteristics.
England, Ireland & Scotland like kicking flyhalfs who can control territory & kick goals. Running & passing the ball is a bonus. Jonny Wilkinson is the best ever English flyhalf, but not the world’s best.
After Wilko, perhaps Rob Andrew, although old-timers will argue ‘Dave’ Davies, who played either side of WW1, was perhaps England’s best-ever no.10. For Ireland Jackie Kyle, then Ollie Campbell. For Scotland John Rutherford, then perhaps Gregor Townsend.
The Welsh like their flyhalfs with ball skills, while retaining the kicking gifts. Different generations of Welshmen will argue ad nauseam the various pecking orders of Cliff Morgan, Barry John, Phil Bennett or Jonathon Davies.
For a country that loves running rugby, French flyhalfs have tended to be surprisingly conservative – shuffling the ball out – rather than prodigious individual gifts. Their best was probably Pierre Albaladejo, nicknamed “monsieur drop”, who played between 1957-66. Although Thierry Lacroix is perhaps the best I’ve seen live.
The Saffies rate Naas Botha highly, although not everyone likes his style. Strangely, Botha could run the ball quite well, but he fits the Saffie mindset of winning ugly being more important than losing beautifully. Personally, my favourite Bok no.10 is Henry Honiball.
Like Argentina’s Hugo Porta, both Botha & Porta could control a game beautifully with their tactical kicking, but neither considered tackling a priority.
The Kiwis have a production line of pragmatically gifted no.10s. I would consider Dan Carter their best ever, followed by Grant Fox ahead of Andrew Merhtens. At least from the past 40 years.
As for Australia, it has to be Mark Ella for me. If you picked the best players in Australia, or the World, from 15 to 11, then the man to set them alight like no other would be Ella. Yes, he had weaknesses in his game – his all round kicking was only fair – but no-one had his vision, or ability to set a backline alight.
But I’ll throw a curve ball, just to cloud the issue even further. Back in the 1920s & 30s, away from the modern glare of saturation TV, internet, radio & newspapers, there was a guy called Tom Lawton snr. Yes, grandfather to 1980s Wallabies Tom Lawton jnr (hooker) & Rob Lawton (prop).
Apparently, Lawton had Ella’s vision & passing skills; Michael Lynagh & Paul McLean’s tactical & goal kicking skills; & Steve Larkham’s running, tackling & physical durability. In other words, he had the all best qualities of the 4 great Wallabies flyhalfs from 1974 to 2007.
Could he have been the Wallabies’ best-ever number 10? I guess we’ll never know for sure. Our rugby history isn’t as strong as other countries. And there aren’t enough people alive to speak for him anymore…..
June 21st 2010 @ 11:48am
Marcel Proust said | June 21st 2010 @ 11:48am | Report comment
I believe their names are
HUGO PORTA
and
ANDREW MEHRTENS
June 22nd 2010 @ 1:14am
Mick Gold Coast QLD said | June 22nd 2010 @ 1:14am | Report comment
Saw Porta at Concord in the late ’80s in a Barbarians match. He fielded the ball in front of the stand at halfway, sort of shrugged and dropped a field goal. I reckoned then that he just couldn’t be bothered running it back.
Rory Underwood turned to the crowd, arms out, palms upwards as if to say “Is there anything this man cannot do well?”
The central question has no answer – as “sheek” establishes above it depends on many things – what do you want from them, is longevity important, are they intended to be strong defenders and so on. I don’t much like the comparison game ‘cos the game is played differently from era to era – I cite the mighty Michael Jones suggesting he simply could not match McCaw.
For mine Fox for the Blacks was dominant in his time, Andrews was similar for England, Ella was scintillating, Porta was a master – Naas Botha too. Then one looks at Dan Carter and sees perfection in the modern game, taking over from Mehrtens who was exceptional – “sheek” is right about their production line.
Today I long for Noddy Lynagh, a journeyman first five, but Mr Reliable who helped his inside man and his outside men perform like champions. He could kick so very well, with real purpose (yes, that used happen) and he mixed it up roughly equally between kick, pass, run. He could teach the pretenders we are stuck with now just what is expected from them, as a baseline requirement.
June 21st 2010 @ 11:57am
Brett McKay said | June 21st 2010 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Too Hard basket. I couldn’t even offer an opinion of the best Australian No.10 of all time, let alone attempt an international alternative…
June 21st 2010 @ 3:38pm
el gamba said | June 21st 2010 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
Agree Brett. Good article Uncle but I don’t know where to start!!
June 23rd 2010 @ 7:40pm
abnutta said | June 23rd 2010 @ 7:40pm | Report comment
Easy. I’ll even rank them for you.
1. Daniel Carter (NZL)
2. Jack Kyle (IRE)
3. Mark Ella (AUS)
4. Bennie Osler (SAF)
5. Grant Fox (NZL)
6. Naas Botha (SAF)
7. Andrew Mehrtens (NZL)
8. Jonny Wilkinson (ENG)
9. Tony Harris (SAF)
10. Barry John (WAL)
June 21st 2010 @ 12:22pm
Aljay said | June 21st 2010 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
No, not a chance. Wilko is the best kicking No.10 of all time and the best front-on tackler, however there are two significant weaknesses in his game – passing and running the ball. At his best he was decent at both compared to other professional No.10s and reasonably above average compared to other internationals at the time, but pales in comparison next to the other all time greats. These significant weaknesses rule him out of the conversation.
I’ll give you another way to measure it. Swap him and another international fly half and see if they adapt their success to the other team. Could Carter or Merhtens have been as successful in a forward dominated/ field position style of team like Enlgand in the 2000-3 era? Yes, I’d say they very much could. Could Wilkinson have released the Kiwi backline by taking on the line and putting people through gaps ala Carter and Merhtens? Never.
June 22nd 2010 @ 9:18am
Brucy B said | June 22nd 2010 @ 9:18am | Report comment
I agree best kicking.
June 21st 2010 @ 12:32pm
Even looser said | June 21st 2010 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Bo Derek.
June 22nd 2010 @ 1:20am
Mick Gold Coast QLD said | June 22nd 2010 @ 1:20am | Report comment
That was a while back so, to be fair in my relative assessment, I need a photo to remind me of her … talents!
June 21st 2010 @ 12:36pm
BigAl said | June 21st 2010 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
just HAS to be Bo Derek!
June 21st 2010 @ 12:42pm
Hywel said | June 21st 2010 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
Barry John above all others.
If you had seen more of him, there’d be no doubt.
If only todays 10s could learn to kick like Cliff Morgan …
He could kick parallel to the touch line and get it to side step into touch when it landed. And that was both sides of the field. Brilliant.
Maybe someone should dig out some footage.
June 21st 2010 @ 12:59pm
Rugby Fan said | June 21st 2010 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
I wouldn’t pick him as the all-time great – even if I could make up my mind on a choice – but I think one of the most entertaining and complete performances I ever saw from a No. 10 at Test level was by Carlos Spencer. He ran the All Blacks to a 16-52 win over South Africa at Loftus and, a week later, did the same in a 21-50 win over Australia in Sydney. There was a lot to admire across the board in that team but Carlos was at his beautiful best.
One great 10 who shone in a mediocre team was Jonathan Davies. I remember my heart sinking when it was reported he’d swapped codes because I was hoping to see him in a Lions shirt on the ’89 tour of Australia.
June 21st 2010 @ 1:49pm
Sam Taulelei said | June 21st 2010 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Ha, ha, that’s pure gold. I’m sure I still have that movie somewhere on VHS