Wallabies drop in world rugby rankings
Roar Guru By Rugby Fan, 22 Jun 2010 Rugby Fan is a Roar Guru
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An onfield altercation breaks out during the Rugby Union England v Wallabies match at Subiaco Oval in Perth. AAP Image/Tony McDonough
The IRB released their new world rankings a short time ago. There are 39 changes – 20 teams falling and 19 teams on the rise.
Australia’s loss to sixth-placed England at the weekend sees them fall out of the top three for the first time since June 2008. They are now just ahead of fifth-placed Ireland, with both teams due to meet at the weekend.
Australia’s place in the top three is taken by France, who move up for the first time since October 2007.
New Zealand stay at number one, almost two points clear of South Africa, who themselves are over four points clear of the French.
Scotland’s win over Argentina sees the two teams swap places.
The Scots are now in 7th place, while the Pumas have fallen to 9th. The Welsh are currently a point ahead of the South Americans in 8th place, but now that France have moved into 3rd place, a win for the Pumas over the French next weekend could see them move up again.
Further down the table, Japan have moved up to 12th place. The Cherry Blossoms recent good form took a knock in the Pacific Nations Cup when they were well beaten by 10th placed Fiji.
However, John Kirwan’s team went on to shock hosts Samoa for their first win over the Islanders since 1999, and the teams swap places, with Samoa now in 13th.
Samoa now face Fiji in the Cup, while Japan will want to beat 16th placed Tonga to secure their place behind Kirwan’s old team, Italy, who hold the 11th spot.
I’m sure it gives French supporters little comfort to be in 3rd place after the team’s bruising loss to South Africa, but they are now reaping the cumulative rewards of a Six Nations Grand slam, and earlier wins over the higher placed Boks and All Blacks.
It may seem hard on Australia to fall out of the top three after a one point loss to England, especially since they beat them the week before and retained the Cook Cup.
However, their status was somewhat undermined during the Grand Slam tour, with the loss to Scotland, who ranked several places below the Wallabies.
June 22nd 2010 @ 9:51am
kingplaymaker said | June 22nd 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment
A good run-down of the rankings. New Zealand looked even better than South Africa recently and could well stay there.
How 9th placed Argentina can seriously join the Tri-nations after two losses to Scotland..
June 22nd 2010 @ 12:29pm
James D said | June 22nd 2010 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
They will improve with time. You have to think about growing the game – the presence of SA and NZ will keep the ournament very competitive and important but adding the Argentineans to it allows the game to grow and get stronger in the long term. Especially once they begin to understand what they are up against. Remember they have constantly beat France (4 of the past 6 meetings) so they might be in poor form now but are not totally hopeless.
June 22nd 2010 @ 12:34pm
Socboy said | June 22nd 2010 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Not to mention we will more than likely see a few Argentinians playing in the S14 from next year which will help with the National sides development.
I’m excited about how tough the SH teams will and can become with the Inclusion of the Argies
June 22nd 2010 @ 5:59pm
The Other Reds Fan. said | June 22nd 2010 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Stops us coming last each year at least.
June 22nd 2010 @ 7:44pm
Joh4Canberra said | June 22nd 2010 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
not to mention putting an end to the risible current 3N format of playing each other team THREE times (one at home and two away/ two at home and one away).
June 22nd 2010 @ 1:13pm
Hayden said | June 22nd 2010 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
king, – was it a full strength Argie side? I admit I haven’t taken much notice of this series, except glad the Scots won. They seem to be on the up.
June 22nd 2010 @ 6:15pm
Mr Saunders said | June 22nd 2010 @ 6:15pm | Report comment
Barring injuries, Hayden. There were no issues over player release.
June 22nd 2010 @ 10:07am
sixo_clock said | June 22nd 2010 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Unless they clean out the stable, get rid of the negative players and staff (not sure who they are though) bring in fresh blood on performance contracts/bonuses expect a bigger slide. This squad is not firing on all cylinders, it is trite to blame the staff but it may be necessary. Sometimes a bit of Macchiavelli or Sun Tzu magic is the go.
The Argies might get in to give a Wallaby a taste of victory? Yeah I know, bit low but that effort last saturday was woeful.
June 22nd 2010 @ 11:03am
Rugby Fan said | June 22nd 2010 @ 11:03am | Report comment
I tried to confirm for the original piece whether Australia are in danger of slipping to 5th if they lose to Ireland at the weekend. I’m still not absolutely certain but I think there’s a chance the teams might swap places. This is because it’s a home match for Australia and all home teams are handicapped in the IRB Ranking to make a win less beneficial and a loss more damaging. A win or loss margin of more than 15 points also affects the rating.
Likewise, I’m not sure if a victory for Australia at the weekend would earn them enough points to overtake France but it probably would if France lost to Argentina. The IRB website usually provides a preview of potential moves on Friday so I’ll see what they say then.
In the end, the rankings are only of practical importance when they are being used to seed the groups for the World Cup (which has already taken place for the 2011 tournament). They do give you one perspective on trends at the international level, however. It’s hard now to recall that the team which last kept Australia out of the top three wasn’t from the North: it was Argentina.
June 22nd 2010 @ 11:17am
Rusty said | June 22nd 2010 @ 11:17am | Report comment
In answer to the first question – any win by Ireland will see them rise above Australia into 4th spot. If Ireland win by 1-15 its a 1.422 point swing and a 2.133 if they win by more. In fact if Ireland should win by more than 15 then Australia would also drop below England into 6th place.
As for overtaking France – even if they belt the Irish it wont happen as the French are .21 outside of the maximum gain for a win.
June 22nd 2010 @ 11:33am
Republican said | June 22nd 2010 @ 11:33am | Report comment
What of our U20′s. They were absolutely demoralised by NZ in the final. How can a country of a mere 4.5 mill be that dominant for so long in a code that is NOT exactly dormant in this country, albeit Union does have a lesser profile here compared to NZ, on a per cap basis – to be sure.
NZ regularly defeat Oz in League at juniour levels as well as being more than competitive in Test League, so what’s our excuse in this respect I wonder?
Next., it will be at Australian Football if NZ ever get a taste for our indig code, which is highly likely given the growing Australian diaspora across the ditch.
It seems there is no end to their superior sporting pedigree which all to often exposes our ever increasing mediocrity, despite ALL our chest thumping and the obscene amounts of money we throw at sport these days.
June 22nd 2010 @ 1:39pm
Harry said | June 22nd 2010 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
Ah Republican they will stick that on the front page of the NZ Herald tomorrow. Calm down, we are still indisputably number one at Australian Rules.
As to the Under 20′s, well no shame in being the second best team. Well done to a young side to making the final. Rather that than bombing out earlier as we have done in the previous 2 U20 comps.
Unfortuantely they and a lot of other pklayers now go into limbo as there is no meaningful rugby outside of test mataches for the next 8 months because we have NO decent DOMESTIC competition. OH that we could see a few of these U 20s and also the likes of Slipper, Daley, Simmons, Douglas getting some decent competition befoer being tossed into tests… and that doesn’t mean the Sydney and Brisbane club comps.
Those ratings look accurate enough to me and unless we start getting some of our best forwards (Moore, TPN, Robinson, Palu) back on the park by 3N time it could be a whole lot worse. A lot lot worse.
June 22nd 2010 @ 2:39pm
Socboy said | June 22nd 2010 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
I don’t see why the ARU doesn’t do a deal with the NZRU and get some of these young blokes into the ANZC spread them around the provinces.
As for no shame in being second maybe not but a 62-17 drubbing in the final of a World Championship is definitely nothing to be proud of either.
June 22nd 2010 @ 9:05pm
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | June 22nd 2010 @ 9:05pm | Report comment
Why would the NZRU want to help Australia via the ANZC? What’s in it for NZ?
IMHO the ARU needs to come-up with it’s own solutions. Bludging off the Kiwi’s is not the answer.
June 22nd 2010 @ 9:11pm
Brett McKay said | June 22nd 2010 @ 9:11pm | Report comment
you mean like Christian Lealiifano playing for Waikato??
June 22nd 2010 @ 9:35pm
Socboy said | June 22nd 2010 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
Exactly a few years ago Brock james and Hilgendorf also played in NZ I believe.
The ARU does need to come up with it’s own solutions but until one can be found why not take advantage of whats on your doorstep. Surely having these young up and comers it can only add to the intrigue and even help bopost the competitiveness.
June 24th 2010 @ 5:06am
MattyP said | June 24th 2010 @ 5:06am | Report comment
Martin Johnson, anyone?
June 22nd 2010 @ 12:15pm
rugbyfuture said | June 22nd 2010 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
are we gonna get a rundown everytime the rankings change, coz that’ll get really annoying.
June 22nd 2010 @ 1:38pm
Rugby Fan said | June 22nd 2010 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
You’re safe on that score. This week’s change was mainly interesting because it featured Australia dropping out of the Top 3 for the first time in a while.
June 22nd 2010 @ 6:02pm
San Jorge said | June 22nd 2010 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
What because 25 code war articles a week isnt annoying? I enjoyed the article, if you find it annoying then don’t read it.
June 23rd 2010 @ 3:46am
pothale said | June 23rd 2010 @ 3:46am | Report comment
Why will it get really annoying?
June 22nd 2010 @ 12:17pm
Nathan said | June 22nd 2010 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Are Argentina really up to joining the Tri Nations based on form? I guess it will help them become stronger and that has to be good for Rugby but losing to Scotland twice??? Perhaps this is one of the reasons why they need to join.
June 22nd 2010 @ 1:16pm
Hayden said | June 22nd 2010 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Mate, don’t be so hard on the Scots. They have been steadily improving over the last couple of years, and who did they beat last autumn?
June 22nd 2010 @ 12:31pm
James D said | June 22nd 2010 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Sounds about right. Also on recent form Canada and the USA should be moving up the rankings after their Churchill Cup form.
June 23rd 2010 @ 9:28am
Nondescript said | June 23rd 2010 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Unfortunately, IRB ranking points are only awarded for test matches.
As Canada had the temerity to beat France ‘A’, the chance of another match up against Canada and USA, and hence some more ranking points was lost.
June 22nd 2010 @ 12:56pm
Comet said | June 22nd 2010 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Cany anyone explain why South Africa (Tri-Nations and World Cup holders) are ranked second behind NZ?
June 22nd 2010 @ 1:08pm
Nathan said | June 22nd 2010 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
I wrote an article about this previously… http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/06/07/whats-a-world-cup-worth/ Might go someway to explaining it.
June 22nd 2010 @ 2:32pm
Rusty said | June 22nd 2010 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
because South Africa unlike the All Blacks havent quite grasped that the key to this ranking gimmick is not just beating those above you but avoiding losing to those significantly below you where a greater point exchange will occur e.g. end of year tours
June 22nd 2010 @ 8:12pm
Stash said | June 22nd 2010 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Comet,
An inability to win away throughout the year.
Thinking its ok to drop games because there not considered important enough.
Having a less win ratio than the All Blacks.
Inability to play consistently game after game, for an entire year.
Quite lucky to be second actually, there was a tiny margin between SA and France until the latest game.
June 23rd 2010 @ 4:36am
Loftus said | June 23rd 2010 @ 4:36am | Report comment
Yes Stash,SA were very lucky to be 2nd! How did you get to that conclusion? Because I thought the Wallabies were in 3rd place and the French are moving up from 4th for the 1st time since October 2007.Wow,thats interesting,Stash.In that case SA were REALLY lucky to be in front of Australia,hey? And extremely lucky to win the World Cup,Tri Nations,B I Lions and the S14.I just hope our luck can continue for a little bit longer before we hand over our trophies to the other teams that deserve it more…
June 23rd 2010 @ 8:00am
pothale said | June 23rd 2010 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Actually Loftus, if you look at the rankings between 2nd and 4th before the SA/France match, France would have overtaken the Boks on the rankings, if they had won by more than 15 points. (87.91 v 86.46)
Based on the current rankings now, (SA on 89.46 and Fra on 84.91) if France were to play SA again in SA and won by more than 15 points, they would overtake the Boks (87.54 v 86.83)- that’s how the IRB system works, when you’re playing a team above you.
Don’t forget that France and Ireland both took rating points off the Boks last November when they beat them.
Australia wouldn’t have gained as much if they had beaten England since they were already over 5 ranking points above them and beating a team ranked lower than you doesn’t gain you as much, and you’re playing at home.
New Zealand do well because they win their matches away as well as at home – that includes the November tours. They don’t gain many points by winning, but they avoid losing points through losing – unlike SA and Australia.
Here’s a useful link to see how the ratings work, and to try out for yourself the result of matches:
http://www.lassen.co.nz/pagmisc.php
June 23rd 2010 @ 10:24am
Republican said | June 23rd 2010 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Blinky
NZ ‘bludge’ of us in just about any sport you care to mention, although I would prefer to articulate this as us affording them support.
It is the exception rather than the rule that we would derive any NZ support – in anything to be perfectly frank..
Cheers
June 23rd 2010 @ 10:36pm
Sylvester said | June 23rd 2010 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
I agree with your statements, but to be fair to Blinky, he was responding the idea of allowing Aussie players in NZ teams (obviously in numbers greater than the one or two we’ve had in the past). The Aussie “aid” to our sports has been allowing us our own team in their comp, so the idea should be the ARU asking the NZRU to enter an Aussie team in the NPC. That would be fair.