
Matthew Lloyd for Victoria attempts to mark in front of Sean Wellman for South Australia during the State of Origin AFL match between Victoria and South Australia at the Melbourne Cricket Ground in Melbourne on May 29, 1999. Slattery Images
In the past, this time of year we’d be discussing State of Origin football. We’d be discussing which players were worthy of pulling on the Big V. We’d be discussing who’ll be lining up for the Croweaters or Sandgropers.
Sadly, those days are gone.
We aren’t discussing Michael Barlow’s Victorian debut. We aren’t discussing Buddy Franklin booting goals for Western Australia, or Matthew Pavlich booting goals for South Australia. We aren’t discussing Chris Judd and Gary Ablett playing alongside each other.
Recently, however, the AFL did manage to re-open the door to Origin football. As part of their consultation with supporters over changes to the fixture, one of the options the league presented included staging representative football during the pre-season.
It shows that the AFL are certainly open to the idea.
Players, too, have come out backing the return of Origin. Judd and Nick Maxwell, both club captains, earlier in the year called for Origin to replace the NAB Cup. A number of other players, Jonathan Brown among them, made similar noises around the time of the Hall of Fame Tribute Match in 2008.
Bringing back Origin makes a lot of sense. In fact, in this age of expansion – not just in the number of teams, but the number of games, too – it seems like a perfect idea for the AFL.
The concern, though, is what happened to Origin in its latter years. And to be fair, when you look back on those years, it’s not that hard to understand why it had to come to an end.
The move to a national competition took a lot of the heat out of state rivalries. South Australian fans could all of the sudden cheer on their boys against the Victorians week in, week out. Ditto West Australian fans.
Then there were issues relating to the loyalty of players, with club often taking priority over state. Holding the event annually and mid-season was a recipe for disaster in this respect.
But as I’ve written before, those two excuses are no longer valid when you fast forward to today and, while doing so, simply learn from the mistakes of the past.
South Australia and Western Australia have moved on from the days where their State of Origin sides were comprised almost fully of players from Adelaide and West Coast. Gone are the days of those clubs holding a 100 per cent market share in their respective states, too.
The player loyalty issue is where the learning from the past comes in. Back in the day, players wanted to represent their state, but to be continually asked to do it year after year took its toll. Missing an Origin game, for those who’d already played in one, became not such a big deal – especially if they were carrying a niggling injury or had a concerned club in their ear.
Holding any Origin matches during the pre-season – or even after the season’s finished, à la International Rules and overseas exhibition games – is a must. And only every second or third year.
After that, there should be little room for concern.
Yet the AFL are still reluctant. It’s mindboggling, especially when you consider the potential bringing back Origin has.
The league right now are considering all sorts of options to bring about more broadcast dollars. Tonight it’s Thursday night football. Earlier in the year it was Monday night football. They’ve thrown up a 24-round season, a 10-team finals series, you name it.
Origin would add to the list of games it can take to television networks. And if it works and fans can’t get enough of it – which would have to happen if managed right – then that just opens up even more broadcast dollars down the track.
And of course, there’s another element to Origin footy that would add to the game, albeit a less tangible one.
It’s called having a true form of representative football.
There’s just something about bringing together rival fans and players and having them all on the one side. There’s something about seeing the best of the best on the park at the one time. There’s something about giving fans of clubs low on the ladder something else to cheer about.
International Rules, even when played regularly, doesn’t quite fill such a void. But Origin does.
Just picture it. Picture Adam Cooney grabbing the ball in the midfield and setting up Pavlich for an easy set shot. Picture Judd handpassing to Ablett, who sends it forward to Brown, who dishes it off to Stephen Milne or Steve Johnson.
Picture it all and then ask yourself whether the AFL should bring back State of Origin or not.
Surely, it’s time.
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oikee said | July 1st 2010 @ 6:36am | Report comment
You having a laugh? State of Origin rugby league is a pre-curser to representitive honors, you know, playing for your country. From origin, the real deal, comes the next step, playing for your country at the highest level. Now somehow by your recogning you seem to think playing origin in AFL is a sure fire winner. Mate tell the truth, the only reason you have dreamed this up is because of the huge dollars rugby league is getting holding its own origin series.
Nobody but afl fans would pay this game any credit, even afl fans should reject the whole idea now. It will be classed as the biggest joke in aussie sport. Look, just face facts, you had a product it failed, rugby league took that product, made it work and the rest is history.
You cant keep dreaming up ideas from other sports, and origin is rugby league, a giant , a goliath, a mountain amounst mole-hills.
You really want to lower your game to a lower level in Australia, bring back origin, see the reception you would get, from not only 1 code, but maybe all codes.
You have the Irish, Australian game, maybe more work needs to be done with this concept, or have you all given up on this idea also.
punter said | July 1st 2010 @ 7:02am | Report comment
I actually disargree with you Oikee. For the AFL to expand, they must have more than just the local competition.
Sure, a Collingwood v Essendon blockbuster on ANZAC with 80K+ has all of Melbourne a buzz with excitment & the AFL heads proclaiming we have the best product in the world.It does little in non AFL states seeing 2 Melbourne suburbs fighting it out in the ANZAC spirit does, for the bandwagon watcher in Sydney or Melbourne, it’s hard to get excited with no affilation
The recent Collingwood v Swans blockbuster in Sydney, which is the biggest game in Sydney only drew 40K (big drop from the 70K a couple of years ago), this on the back on the biggest AFL campaign ever with the Israel Falou signing, proves they need more to entice those who aren’t already AFL heads.
Bring on the State of Origin for the AFL.
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 7:35am | Report comment
What? SOO Rugby League is the pinnacle of that sport, not internationals.Players play origin to play in the biggest contest that sport offers. I’ve been to bother an international and a SOO and the atmosphere at the latter was incomparable to the former, which resembles a Storm game. And this was in melbourne where SOO technically offers no representation. I actually think league will be better off playing NSW and QLD as separate “nations” against england and NZ etc…
And in terms of taking idea off other sports a) there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and b) SOO was actually a concept that originated in the aussie rules states, it just took better
People who don’t like pur national game are irrelevant to whether we should bring back SOO. They will almost certainly squeal and whinge but they do that at every turn already. Australian football already has a significant “following” of mainly league and soccer nuts who just do not get and cannot accept Australian football’s pre-eminence
Paul J said | July 1st 2010 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Traditionally SOO in rugby league was the toughest game of rugby league you could play and a great honour.
However playing for the Kangaroos has always been the highest honour in rugby league, every player says so.
With the Kiwi’s having so many players in the NRL now they can beat Australia so the international game is getting very close to origin in intensity.
If you can find a quote from any rugby league player in history who says playing for his state is a greater honour than playing for his country I’ll give you $1 million.
(Pleased be advised i don’t have $1 million).
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Miss my point, Paul. The players might recognise a kangaroos guernsey as a “greater honour” but SOO is a greater contest and is played at a higher intensity and has a higher quality 26 all up than any international combination
Australian football SOO, if it can be made to work, would involve a higher quality 44 (individually at least) for at least 3 combinations than the two best clubs of any year could.
The lack of internationals is a ridiculous argument. People would follow SOO equally as much as they do now if there were no internationals. I find it difficult to understand how anyone could argue otherwise
Tom of Brisbane said | July 1st 2010 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Greatest honour – Australian jumper
Toughest football – State of Origin
Greatest achievement – Grand Final victory
It’s great that Rugby League has three different things for players to aspire to, all fabulous achievements in their own way, none greater or lesser than the others. AFL currently only has one (or two if you count international rules, jury is still out on that one)
Of course, SOO isn’t very tough for Queenslanders any more
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:00am | Report comment
That is true, but when you consider which direction players are heading (both at the elite and junior levels) you have to wonder what the 3 draw cards in RL collectively way up against playing in the dominant domestic league
captain nemo said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:31am | Report comment
I have to agree with oikee on this one also. let sleeping dogs lie
Gavin Norman said | July 1st 2010 @ 10:28am | Report comment
True, but mind you many non Australian born players were willing to give up representing their country of birth, just so they could play in State of Origin. State of Origin is the pinnacle of League not National representation. It is also reflected in the match payments, venues used to host matches etc…
mds1970 said | July 1st 2010 @ 7:36am | Report comment
State of Origin died with Ted Whitten.
The final years of Origin games had small crowds and players pulling out with dubious injuries. I don’t see why anything would be any different if they brought it back.
In the AFL, club football is all-important. I’d hate to see someone from my club playing in a Mickey-Mouse Origin game, get injured, and miss club games.
Redb said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Mds1970,
There were a couple of selfish and highly influential players like Dermott Brereton who did not take it seriously enough towards the end. SOO was yearly for awhile and perhaps at the time of the introduction and early success of West Coast and the Adelaide the interstate aspect to football had been over done.
However, the Big V v Dreamteam game in 2008 certainly got most of the players involved and watching from the Grandstand as a fan you noted the great pride players like Brown, Fevola, Harvey and Co displayed in playing for the Big V.
The enemy of Origin is still the clubs and the timing.
I think the fans and most of the players want a return to true Origin: Victoria, v South Australia and/or Western Australia.
I suspect with the big SA (Crows) and WA (Eagles) club sides no longer dominating the AFL some state pride in a return of Origin would be well received. This is the pride issue the AFL should spike to create interest.
It would definitely work in 2 or 3 year rotation format.
Paul J said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Imho…there are 2 reasons why SOO has worked better in rugby league.
Firstly there are only 2 states competing in rugby league which gives a greater tribal feel for it. For example there is a great tribal rivalry between Holden and Ford. There would be less tribal rivalry between Holden and Ford and Toyota and Honda.
Secondly, the main reason SOO worked in league is because Qld could compete with big brother in the beginning and have done so for 30 years. If SA (or WA) can consistently beat Vic despite the smaller populations then the idea can work better.
And to state the obvious, everyone has to be on board. Every coach and player must want to play for their state and not let their club get in the way. Niggling injuries must be ignored and getting into the state colours must mean everything.
Luke W said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Won’t happen. AFL players don’t have the requisite passion for their state or country needed to create representative fixtures.
BigAl said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:18am | Report comment
- ‘requisite passion for their state…’ – ooooh yeah ! – just brings a tear to me eye !.
.
.
BigAl said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Not this tired old dog again !
Rugby League needs SOO – Aussie rules does NOT need SOO.
To some people it seems to be a bit like motherhood – how could you possibly not support it ?
But it ‘s been clearly shown that when it comes to the crunch, the people that count in AFL , and the fans, realise that it just gets in the way of, and has the potential to damage (via injuries etc.) the main game in AFL – which is the nationwide inter club competition.
Paul J said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Rugby league does not need SOO, it needs the 16 clubs. SOO is just an added bonus for the NRL.
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment
SOO strengthens League without a doubt. It offers something mid year that the AFL could never compete with (mid year SOO was one of its down falls). NRL club competition simply can never compete with the AFL clubs, the gap is just too much and leader’s advantage, superior management and culture mean it is likely to increase not decrease.
The Swans are already by far the biggest club in Sydney in terms of turnover and attendance, Australian football may have the top two in a decade
If SOO is to come back, it should be in the form of a pre season or post season carnival once every 3 or 4 years. It should be backed by considerable resources
beaver fever said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Problem is, there are to many states that can put up decent teams, Vic, WA and SA all have very decent teams, QLD can put up a decent team, how do you run it.
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:06am | Report comment
It would have to be a carnival. As I said, the AFl could not go in half arse, they would need to ensure it is very well resourced and the players are paid well. I think a Feb / March every 2-4 years would be the go. It would unsettle the preseasons somewhat in those years but so what!
Paul J said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:40am | Report comment
“NRL club competition simply can never compete with the AFL clubs, the gap is just too much and leader’s advantage…”
You’re entitled to an AFL fan’s view. The NRL TV figures are comparable to the AFL even with our current dodgy management (we should probably argue the TV thing elsewhere). An NRL fan is looking forward to a big increase in the next TV deal and an independent commission, both of which will help the NRL big time.
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Fair enough dude we have established the two positions
Reality: NRL half the size (taking into account attendance, club turnovers, participation rates, memberships, TV rights)
Crazy Leagite in denial: List a whole lot of parochial reasons as to why reality is all an illusion and RL is about to mount a stunning comeback
Akazie said | July 1st 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Honesty Baz, would you give the League bashing a rest for one bloody day?
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Quote me once where I have “league bashed”….
I’ve only posted on two threads the last couple of days, one an article responding to some smh sports editor bemoaning the national game, the other talking about the national game reintroducing SOO
If someone wants to come on to an australian football article and sprout nonsense i am well in my right to respond
HYPOCRITE!
Bigad said | July 1st 2010 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Half the size and five times the quality. AFL is the McDonalds of Australian sport.
Redb said | July 1st 2010 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Be great to see the Big V again. Best jumper/jersey in Aussie sport.
Watched a bit of the Under 18 champs, eventually won by Country Victoria – the Big V looked great!
The AFL has included State of Origin as an option for discussion on their website seeking input from fans, I think it will come back, in what format who knows?
Michael DiFabrizio said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Agree on the Big V. It’s so well-received that it’s managed to inspire an A-League jersey and a Twenty20 jersey well after it stopped being active.
Correct on the AFL website — they’ve put forward that it would be held alongside a preseason with just practice matches. Not a bad idea, particularly considering Judd and Maxwell initially voiced their support for such an idea. But there are a number of different formats you could go with.
btw – missed the U18 championships – anyone catch the eye? I heard the newest Riewoldt had another good game for Tassie.
Redb said | July 1st 2010 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
Big V!!!
Day, Treloar likely players.
M1tch said | July 1st 2010 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Is this just so Folau can play Origin in the AFL?
James said | July 1st 2010 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Okie,
“You cant keep dreaming up ideas from other sports, and origin is rugby league, a giant , a goliath, a mountain amounst mole-hills.”
AFL State of Origin began in 1977, Rugby Leaggue State of Origin began in 1982.. therefore Rugby League can s stop dreaming up ideas from other sports.
Billo Boy said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Rugby league Origin began in 1980 (not 1982) between two rivals who had been going against each other every year since 1908. AF didn;t invent NSW and Queensland hating each other.
Have a look at how entrenched (not!) Origin was in AF by 1980: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_matches_in_Australian_rules_football#State_of_Origin_results There was no contest or series similar to Maroons versus Blues.
Origin only became popular in AF in the mid 1980s after they saw what League was doing.
beaver fever said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:06am | Report comment
So i take it AF stands for Australian football BB, should not you and the rest of your cult be calling it rugby.
You are seriously embarrasing yourself repeatedly.
Billo Boy said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:17am | Report comment
I see your devotion beaver fever to all things Australian does not extend to free speech.
beaver fever said | July 1st 2010 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
You are quite free to embarass yourself, just as i am free to point it out.
What amuses me is your continual denial of Australian football even being Australian, but then you proceed to call it Australian football when it suits.
I dont even know which sport/footy code you like,( if you even like any ) but what i do know is that perhaps you should expend more energy into improving it’s profile and talking it up rather than talking Australian football down.
Billo Boy said | July 1st 2010 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
I used “AF” for clarity in the context of the discussion. Grown ups do that.
It is not an admission that “the Melbourne sport devised in 1859 which calls itself football but really is something else other than football” is football.
Alternatively, you can admit that the game began in 1859 as a form of English football and we can all move on having agreed that your Australian game is in fact an English football game with an Aussie twist Just like meat pies and the English language.
beaver fever said | July 1st 2010 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
Right !!, a sport that has called itself and been called football for over 150 years, and has many of the oldest football clubs in the world ……………. should not call itself football.
You are clearly misrepresenting the facts when your first post stated that Tom Wills MIGRATED from Rugby school to Melbourne.
You used Australian Football in the context because thats precisely what it is, ……. AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL, deal with it, grown ups do those sorts of things !!.
Billo Boy said | July 1st 2010 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
Get over it. Tom Wills SAILED from Rugby school to Melbourne. What’s the difference. He didn’t find the rules to football etched into a tree trunk in the Victorian bush.
All I’ve ever said is that if the game didn;t come from English football then they would have not only invented rules for a new sport but would have given it a new name too. As if someone would invent a new sport and give it the name of an existing one!
If the game and the Sherrin didn’t descend from rugby then what was it based on? A kangaroo kicking an emu egg?
beaver fever said | July 1st 2010 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
Quite simply, you are the one who has to get over it, i am more than happy to talk about my preferred sport all day, so as long as you post you mistruths, i am happy to pull you up.
Billo Boy said All I’ve ever said is that if the game didn;t come from English football then they would have not only invented rules for a new sport but would have given it a new name too.
Nope, ……… thats the least of what you have said, you stated, that Tom Wills MIGRATED
from England, you have said that Australian football is not REAL football, you have said that Australian football is RUGBY, you have said that Australian football will DIE.
And quite simply, Tom Wells experiences from birth to 14 being the only white kid in the area, and being friendly with the marn grook playing local tribes would have been quite a profound experience.
I could go on, but plainly your agenda is one of discrediting Australian football.
Redb said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:25am | Report comment
“Origin only became popular in AF in the mid 1980s after they saw what League was doing”
Totally unrelated.
Billo Boy said | July 1st 2010 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Still factually correct though Redb.
Michael C said | July 1st 2010 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Billo Boy????
what are you on about??
Inter colonial football dates back to the mid/late 1800s. Well before RL came along…..y’see, RL missed the pre-federation era so I can understand why your grasp on football history kinda starts in 1908!!!
Interstate football was pretty popular but, like RL was blighted by no ‘origin’ concept. Vic defeats therefore few and far between.
Aust Football SoO popularity built through the 80s – no doubt – - I’m not sure what anything happening b/w the QRL and NSWRL and that was not aired on TV in Aust Footy states would have at all to do with Aust Footy SoO popularity??
That’s a pretty ludicrous claim.
Your link that you included illustrate in 1977 and 1978 some pretty well supported Vic vs WA matches both at Waverley (45K – 1978) and at Subiaco (26K and 45K in 1977, and 30K in 1978).
The carnival format in 1979 didn’t really work, but, the Vic v WA game still drew 31K, and finally SA got to host the Vics and drew about 32K.
Main thing was that it was not until 1982 that they stumbled across a popular formula of giving BOTH WA and SA a chance to tackle the Vics,
and no-one really cared about WA vs SA.
Billo Boy said | July 1st 2010 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
Where’s the evidence that Victoria played another state year after year for 80 years before Origin?
AF didn’t invent the concept of national and regional teams calling back players based on some critieria. Its been going on in (real) football since the 1930s and the (real) World Cup.
beaver fever said | July 1st 2010 @ 5:42pm | Report comment
Hopefully you can work it out from here !!!!!.
http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/is_1.htm
Of course this site is made up, because it’s not “real” football, it’s just pretend.
Wayno said | July 1st 2010 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Once the AFL moves to a conference system it will have the 2 horse solution to issue this by way of interconference matches.
I suspect a decent rivalry could be built up fairly quickly, very successful in the US.
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
The AFL never move to a conference system and no one will give a shyt about the a team representing a conference their club was arbitrarily shoe-horned into
we are not america. their system evolved into what it is. as did ours!!!
Gavin Norman said | July 1st 2010 @ 10:59am | Report comment
The real question is would we have a 2, 4 or 6 team State of Origin series?
- VIC & Allies (boring)
- VIC, SA, WA & Allies
- VIC, SA, WA, NSW/ACT, QLD, NT/TAS (Allies)
I’m of the opinion, the latter will help drive interest in non traditional markets. However would Queenslanders and New South Welshmen be interested in seeing League players go head to head on Wednesday, then 4 days later on Saturday seeing the Aussie Rules equivalent?
Michael DiFabrizio said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Cheers for the comment, Gavin.
There’s no question Vic, SA and WA are the key ingredients. Maybe to include the others you have to split it into divisions like the U18 championships. Maybe each division only has two teams – and a promotion/relegation system exists so that losing teams go down a division and winning teams go up. That way you wouldn’t need multiple weeks to stage Origin, you just have one game for each state and then two or three years later, you pick up where you left off.
But certainly, as long as it isn’t Victoria against the Allies we’ll be right!
Redb said | July 1st 2010 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Agree, I think we ditch the Alllies concept altogether. QLD not yet strong enough yet to become no.4 State but hopefully not too far away.
beaver fever said | July 2nd 2010 @ 10:36am | Report comment
http://www.aflq.com.au/index.php?id=132
Getting close.
Could be competetive, but depth due to injuries would be the problem.
Geordie said | July 1st 2010 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
You could run it a bit like the FIFA World Club Championship where the lesser teams from Oceania, Asia, Nth America and Africa play-off first before the European and Sth American teams join in.
First round – a. Qld v NSW
– b. Tas v WA
Second Round – SA v winner game a
– Vic v winner game b
Final.
bazza667 said | July 1st 2010 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
I don’t really care much for the AFL – but if they were to have SOO why not have something like 6 team competition
WA, SA, Vic, Tas, NSW, Qld. ACT players go to NSW, NT players go to Qld/WA/SA – their preference
Play it every 2 years as an end of season tournament.
2 pools of 3 with a final between the top 2
Pool seedings based on previous tourament results
Baz35 said | July 1st 2010 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
Pretty much the model I have in mind