What’ll be the impact of Sydney Rugby Union?
Roar Guru By Working Class Rugger, 8 Jul 2010 Working Class Rugger is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- NSWRU, Rugby Union, Sydney rugby union
As most Roarer’s would be aware, the NSWRU has officially approved the reformation of the Sydney Rugby Union. With this reformation, the NSWRU has now effectively freed itself from administrating both the Shute Shield and the Waratahs.
The Shield and its future are now firmly in the hands of those who have long since coveted control – the Clubs themselves. The move leaves far more questions than answers.
Questions like:
* How exactly does the incoming board of the SRU plan to increase current sponsorship levels within the competition?
* How do they plan to bolster exposure?
* How will this move lead to a stronger level of competition within the Shield, not just amongst the current powerhouses, but for the likes of Parramatta and Penrith?
Furthermore, while the questions above are perhaps the most obvious, others regarding the future structure of the Shield need to be asked.
They have already indicated they will look to forge stronger ties with the Brisbane Competition.
If so, what will that mean for the future of Sydney Rugby. More importantly, what will it mean for regions just outside of their sphere of influence, like the Hunter and Illawarra?
These are areas with the necessary club infrastructure to support teams in an expanded Shield.
Will they open the door for the Rebels franchise to enter its own teams?
Conversely, what does the further separation of assets by the NSWRU mean for grassroots Rugby within NSW?
So there’s still plenty of questions to be asked and answered, and all we can do is speculate. It would be good if details could come sooner rather than later and questions and fears regarding the future of the Shield answered in a timely fashion.
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- NSWRU, Rugby Union, Sydney rugby union
July 8th 2010 @ 8:02am
sheek said | July 8th 2010 @ 8:02am | Report comment
WC Rugger,
It’s interesting that NSW rugby has gone back to the past for ideas on how to progress its future: the re-creation of a Sydney rep team; North Harbour vs South Harbour; City vs Country; return of national club championships.
These were all important fixtures in a less cluttered world. Can we fit them in now in the frenetic professional world? I would like to think so.
A clear demarcation must be made between professional aspirational district clubs & amateur social suburban clubs. I know someone like Yikes disagrees with me, but the premier clubs can’t be carrying 7 grades like they used to in the amateur era. You can’t be paying some of your club players, & not the rest.
I suggest 4 grades only, with all district club graded players paid. Surely, this would be more manageable. Spillover players (who miss district grade selection) will hopefully join suburban clubs.
High school rugby needs a total makeover. If GPS & CAS don’t wish to abandon their priveleged, exclusive worlds, then that’s okay, NSWRU (through CHS) can still run a vibrant revamped Waratah Shield competition without them. However, I have a suspicion a couple of GPS/CAS schools would be willing to embrace the brave new world.
But the biggest problem remains growing the player participation base. Do that & we will have something. Otherwise, rugby in Australia is heading for the sidelines.
July 8th 2010 @ 9:14pm
Jeff said | July 8th 2010 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
NSW Rugby has not gone back to the past for ideas! All these ideas that you are referring to are ideas of SRU. Premiership clubs had the grumps with NSWRU, they tried to affiliate with ARU got nowhere and want to run their own race. Well they now have been given the blessing by NSWRU to run their own race…have their own committee…it makes them feel better and hopefully SRU can meet the aspirations of their constituents.
The biggest problem with the Waratah Shield knockout comp is the excessive number of forfeits caused by the lack of interest by public high schools in rugby…who is going to give it a total makeover?…NSWRU will try and facilitate a better model but there is no interest by school principals in promoting rugby in the public school system…there are minor exceptions but you are flogging a dead horse. Our best option to grow the participation base or broaden the games base is through the junior club system…it has the infrastructure and the volunteers to make it happen!
July 8th 2010 @ 10:23pm
Working Class Rugger said | July 8th 2010 @ 10:23pm | Report comment
Jeff
How do you attract potential player’s? They main reason many push the ‘more Rugby in schools’ line directly stems from the facts that you can reach more children than simply just setting up a local club. Not that I’m saying something a long the lines of your suggestion wouldn’t work but abandoning schools because of the lack of interest just seems wasteful.
The NSWRU must work hard at creating the demand not simply throwing its hands in the air and declaring it as ‘too hard’. To defeatist in my opinion. Most principals have little or no interest in AFL yet they still run its Auskick program in NSW schools.
You also have to think long term. NSWRU priority should be at the Primary sector not the Secondary systems. Something along the lines of a 60/40 split. From there if kids are interested direct them to their local club.
July 10th 2010 @ 5:46pm
Jeff said | July 10th 2010 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
Dont think we are too far apart…just get the grumps when I hear people on this blog pushing the rugby in public schools angle..just dont see it happening in terms of regular competitions in public school system…think there is considerable merit in promoting as you suggest rugby in public primary schools..maybe something similar to an Auskick program like AFL to garner the interest..also believe there is great merit in local junior clubs getting off their backsides and creating stronger links between the local club and local schools – believe school principals support idea of strong links between their school and local community based sporting organisations in their area.
Dont believe that NSWRU is abandoning public schools just think that it all comes down to resources and funding and ARU just dont see this as a priority, its all about the professional game when it comes to funding. Would be great if they could get an equivalent to Auskick and promote in local primary schools….and if they did it at the start of the rugby season perhaps these activities could translate into club registrations where the kids played in a structured competition for the whole winter season…wouldnt that be great..it would have a big impact on participation and broaden the games base.
July 10th 2010 @ 6:54pm
Working Class Rugger said | July 10th 2010 @ 6:54pm | Report comment
Jeff
I’ll admit I am one of those who push the ‘more Rugby in public schools’ angle. However, what may differ is that while I do see the need to involve as much potential talent as possible and the Secondary would be ideal to do that I believe that Rugby should begin this process as young as possible. As a child I was fortunate enough to be visited at school by a couple of NSWRU representatives. Although I had always had a vague interest in the game via my father it was during their visits that secured my passion for the game today.
Its the formative years where Rugby should be looking at building its participation. The more juniors we can secure the better. The ARU already has TryRugby and EdRugby. They must look to expand these programs as much as possible. Currently the ARU spends around $3.5 million annually on such endeavours. With the games re-admission to the Olympics any funds recieved should be funnelled directly into the preferred program ( it would be roughly another $5 million annually).
July 10th 2010 @ 7:53pm
Jeff said | July 10th 2010 @ 7:53pm | Report comment
WCR Where did you get the figure of $3.5M pa from and what does it relate to?
July 8th 2010 @ 8:05am
RickG said | July 8th 2010 @ 8:05am | Report comment
I’ve been wondering the same thing WCR since the news broke. I guess time will tell but for the moment I see it as a real positive. If nothing else at least these questions are being asked and there will be people dedicated to finding the answers, rather than NSWRU directors paying lip service to te value of club rugby but in relaity doing very little to support it. Bear in mind that the exapndd Super rugby program from next year will draw the top players away for longer periods (their regular return in recent seasons probably being the biggest factor in the improvement of club rugby). Thsi will make sponsorship and raising the comp’s profile even harder than it is now.
July 8th 2010 @ 8:39am
Mals said | July 8th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Some good points have been raised. I would like to see the Premier rugby clubs streamlined further & play with a 1st & 2nd grade & 1 U21s team. Players that don’t make the cut for these teams can go play for the surrounding “feeder” suburban clubs and be called on if needed by their Premier rugby team. NSW suburban rugby needs an overhaul at the same time, this competition has no clear organised structure to it.
July 8th 2010 @ 3:02pm
Yikes said | July 8th 2010 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Oh wow. Could not disagree more.
You don’t grow the game by cutting premiership grades. To do so would weaken the standard immeasurably.
Besides, no subbies club would EVER let their best players go because a premiership club down the road has had a few injuries and wants someone for reserve grade! Some subbies clubs wouldn’t even release their players to play for the subbies rep team!
And subbies rugby has a brilliant structure and is very clearly organised (and well run). I really don’t know what you’re talking about.
July 8th 2010 @ 8:51pm
Jeff said | July 8th 2010 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
Suburban clubs are not feeder clubs to premiership clubs….and subies does not need an overhaul…Suburban Rugby is run very well and most of its constituents would vehemently disagree with your inane assertions.
July 9th 2010 @ 9:02am
Mals said | July 9th 2010 @ 9:02am | Report comment
It’s not an even playing field in Premier rugby. Look at Parramatta they struggle to field a couple of teams. It is dominated by self interested clubs with the powerful ones not wanting the status quo changed.
I have played subbies rugby for 10+ years in various divisions. Subbies do not even have an even number of teams in each division nor a consistent promotion/relegation guideline for the lower divisions. Why did 4th division disappear last year? Look with the small resources that Subbies have they do a fair job but it could be much better structured than it is now. Of course suburban clubs are not feeders to Premier clubs at the moment, this is because of the CURRENT structures in place for both competitions. They are siloed from one another. Ask yourself this question – for what purpose?
July 9th 2010 @ 10:23am
Yikes said | July 9th 2010 @ 10:23am | Report comment
For what purpose? Because subbies clubs want to win!?
There’s no promotion/relegation at the bottom because moving up a grade might force clubs to provide more grades than they are capable of or want to. There is automatic promotion/relegation in the higher divisions where the clubs have the same number of grades.
July 9th 2010 @ 1:43pm
Mals said | July 9th 2010 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Yikes – you are just assuming it would be a one way street. Players would go back & forth between the Premier rugby teams & their affliated subbies clubs. What is the point of the “breakfast club” (e.g. 5th grade) in Premier rugby?? This level of competition is well below Kentwell Cup.
July 8th 2010 @ 8:46am
Bay35Pablo said | July 8th 2010 @ 8:46am | Report comment
WCR, was thinking of writing a similar article myself.
Another question that arises is, what is the NSWRU for now they don;t run the Shute Shield or Waratahs … ?
this just adds to the alphabet soup of organisations that “run” rugby in this state. We need less not more duplication and spreading thin of resources.
Where are they getting the money to hire a CEO, or do any of this?
The commom complaint has been the clubs look after themselves and stuff anyone else, which is why the Shute Sheild remains as it is. Whereas of course the clubs would likely blame the NSWRU. Well, now they will have no excuses.
Will the SRU run the comp in the best interests of rugby in Sydney 9as their name would suggest), or just the clubs in it? I think we can answer that one.
They should change their name to SGCRU (Sydney Grade Clubs Rugby Union).
The clubs arguably should field 2 grade teams and 1 colts team in the Shute Sheild, with a view to expanding the comp into Newcastle and the Illawarra. They can field their other teams in a separate comp as need be, or negoitate a serious reorganisation of the Subbies comp and put them in there.
.
July 8th 2010 @ 8:52am
sheek said | July 8th 2010 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Bay,
My understanding is that the NSWRU still runs the Waratahs & overall state development, SRU runs Sydney club rugby, district, suburban down to juniors.
Of course, the self-interest of the premier clubs (well, most of ‘em) remains a roadblock to progress. Ditto the self-interest of private secondary schools.
The other point of culling 7 grades down to 3-4, is that not all premier clubs are in a position to pay players, so the field needs to be levelled. As also mentioned, subbies can do with an overhaul as well.
Truth is, we’re far from out of the woods on this…..
July 8th 2010 @ 2:55pm
Yikes said | July 8th 2010 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
No no no. Totally wrong. When I have time I’ll post below.
July 8th 2010 @ 9:30am
Rickety Knees said | July 8th 2010 @ 9:30am | Report comment
So the ARU is responsible for the development of the game in NSW. Sydney Rugby has returned to manage the game in Sydney from grade down to juniors. The Brumbies control southern NSW. The NSWRU now controls nothing but has a $300k a year CEO. The Waratahs now stand alone with a separate boad.
As a junior Rugby coach on the Central Coast the game is withering at the vine when there is only 4 u/11 sides out of a possible 9 clubs. At least we will all make the semis!
This is a dogs breakfast!
July 8th 2010 @ 10:01am
ncart said | July 8th 2010 @ 10:01am | Report comment
RK,
Is the NSWRU doing anything in the Central Coast about getting rugby into more primary schools that would then lead to more kids playing for clubs like yours? If not, are the clubs in your region doing anythng about it – I know that the clubs have limited resources but perhaps if you were to approach the schools and find out what they require, then go to NSWRU with that info together you could come up with a plan of how to get more schools involved and thus grow the game in your area. I believe that it really comes down to passionate people who want to see improvement to make these sort of things happen, rather than a faraway organisation who aren’t at the coalface. Find out who is responsible for Central Coast development – see here:
http://www.nswrugby.com.au/DevelopmentRugby/SupportHelp/SupportHelp.aspx – call them up and find out what is going on and how you can help them to improve things in your area. Central Coast is a designated Country NSW development area according to the site – although notably there is no contact name there.
For primary schools it says: Rugby Union in our government schools is coordinated and run by the New South Wales Primary Schools Sports Association (NSW PSSA). NSW Rugby Union is a sponsor of the NSW PSSA and works with them to support and grow Rugby within the government public school sector.
According to the NSW PSSA site http://www.sports.det.nsw.edu.au/nswpssa/personnel/index.htm the convener for rugby is:
Primary Rugby Union Matt Lewis Ermington West PS Ph: 9638 5302
Call him and find out what is going on in the CC area for primary schools – funnily enough he is the principal of that school which is near Paramatta and there is no mention on the school website of rugby, but according to the PSSA he’s the guy – seems a bit odd that he’d be the rugby contact if his own school don’t play it but…..maybe if some activity starts happening from the ground up then it can be a template for others to follow and make things happen.
July 9th 2010 @ 4:27pm
Yikes said | July 9th 2010 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
http://www.nbntv.com.au/index.php/2010/07/06/camp-waratah-wows-rugby-youngsters-on-the-coast/
Better than nothing!
July 9th 2010 @ 4:44pm
Rickety Knees said | July 9th 2010 @ 4:44pm | Report comment
yikes – again I value your input but mate this is a band aid trying to cover a f@#&ing big sore!
July 9th 2010 @ 4:42pm
Rickety Knees said | July 9th 2010 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
ncart – mate there are only so many hours in the day – my spare time is spent coaching the boys. My young bloke, who is a good athlete – both in Rugby and Cricket – attends the local primary school and plays Rugby for his club on Saturdays and League during the week for his school. There is absolutely no evidence of any attempt to bring Rugby to the Primary Schools of the Central Coast – even though we supposedly have an ARU funded development officer responsible for this region.
We have established Rugby Clubs which are struggling to get juniors! And nobody seems to be listening.
July 8th 2010 @ 1:52pm
Red Rooster said | July 8th 2010 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
RK – I think you have summed it up well. Lots of colour and movement but in effect more costs, greater jurisdiction issues and no doubt less accoutability
July 8th 2010 @ 9:57am
Working Class Rugger said | July 8th 2010 @ 9:57am | Report comment
My understanding is that the new Waratahs organisation will pay an annual licencing fee to the NSWRU. Somewhere in the vicinity of $1.5 million dollars a season. Most if not all of this fee should be directly pumped back into the grassroots of the game. The main target of these funds should be schools and more importantly actually establishing proper competition instead of its current knockout formats. I think the Waratahs Shield is a noble concept but poorly executed. Sheek’s suggestion as a revamp would be ideal with the Shield being the ulitimate prizes for the teams that win the individual schools competition.
The ARU may be responsible for the games development in NSW but now its up to the NSWRU with no other responsibilities to step up and get things back on track.
July 8th 2010 @ 10:01am
Go_the_Wannabe's said | July 8th 2010 @ 10:01am | Report comment
I wish they’d bring back the Sydney vs NSW Country games again.
But to stop them being boring white washes……make them like mini State of Origin…..you play for whoever you played your first club rugby, city or the bush!
And they could be like trials for the Tah’s…..so there’s a reward hanging on the game.
That would get some real TRIBALISM and passion happening again! (Boos to boring professional rugby)
Go the Bush Cocky’s!!!!!
July 8th 2010 @ 7:57pm
Jeff said | July 8th 2010 @ 7:57pm | Report comment
Your wish is answered Wannabe…the Juniors are running their City vs Country carnival on 25 July at Woy Woy Oval, Oval Rd Woy Woy. Under 14′s start at 9.30am leading through to 17′s commencing at 1.30pm. Hope you and all the other rugby supporters from Central Coast can attend. The Carnival showcases the best Junior Club players from all 4 corners of NSW. It is run by NSWJRU and is hosted by NSW Country Juniors. Entry is free, the whole event and everything that leads up to this annual carnival is run by Volunteers!
July 8th 2010 @ 10:18am
Redback said | July 8th 2010 @ 10:18am | Report comment
The Sydney comp should include teams like Newcastle, Illawarra and a Central West team all within easy driving to Sydney. They should also include an Australian club championship for all club teams to contest.
July 8th 2010 @ 10:26am
Working Class Rugger said | July 8th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Newcastle and the Illawarra would be more likely as both have reasonable centralised population. The Central West on the other hand isn’t a simple. Distances that need to be travelled would make it difficult to field teams on a regular basis.
Back onto the format of the grade clubs. They should be moving toward a 3 teams setup. This will not only further increase the competition quality but will also encourage player’s to spread more evenly across the teams. This would also allow any new entrant to field reasonably competitive teams from the get go.