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	<title>Comments on: Unlike rugby, World Cup taps support from all South Africans</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/</link>
	<description>Your Sports Opinion</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:37:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ben J</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-399947</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-399947</guid>
		<description>I am pretty late into this discussion but it should be noted that many black callers to talkradio after the world cup lamented the fact that there is little diversity in the national soccer team and that traditional white schools should be encouraged to play soccer as the team is in desperate need of size and strength to combat bigger teams. There are plenty of raw material available to soccer apart from black players but it should be properly harnassed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty late into this discussion but it should be noted that many black callers to talkradio after the world cup lamented the fact that there is little diversity in the national soccer team and that traditional white schools should be encouraged to play soccer as the team is in desperate need of size and strength to combat bigger teams. There are plenty of raw material available to soccer apart from black players but it should be properly harnassed.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-398278</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-398278</guid>
		<description>I found the ironic thing about SA is that the day after the Bafana Bafana played in the first game of the comp (I think against Mexico), the Springboks were playing Les Bleus (The French) and the stadium was packed to the brim. It is true that the Soccer game had more &quot;blacks&quot; (and why is it ok to call them black but not other people), whereas the Bok&#039;s game had more &quot;whites&quot; (same conundrum again). 

But in saying that The Union game had more diversity in their colour palate, which I like to call the crowd. And I do think this article should have been moderated itself. It seems one has jumped onto a debate that has too much political tension as well as code thuggery involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the ironic thing about SA is that the day after the Bafana Bafana played in the first game of the comp (I think against Mexico), the Springboks were playing Les Bleus (The French) and the stadium was packed to the brim. It is true that the Soccer game had more &#8220;blacks&#8221; (and why is it ok to call them black but not other people), whereas the Bok&#8217;s game had more &#8220;whites&#8221; (same conundrum again). </p>
<p>But in saying that The Union game had more diversity in their colour palate, which I like to call the crowd. And I do think this article should have been moderated itself. It seems one has jumped onto a debate that has too much political tension as well as code thuggery involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-4/#comment-398277</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-398277</guid>
		<description>Are you sure they shout or is that what we interpret the vuvuzelas noise as.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you sure they shout or is that what we interpret the vuvuzelas noise as.</p>
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		<title>By: Shahsan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-397077</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-397077</guid>
		<description>No one on this site is obliged to say their real name if they do not want to. What is your problem with that? How do we know Franklin Black is your real name. anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one on this site is obliged to say their real name if they do not want to. What is your problem with that? How do we know Franklin Black is your real name. anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: Shahsan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-397058</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-397058</guid>
		<description>Out of your depth, obviously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out of your depth, obviously.</p>
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		<title>By: Shahsan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-397028</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-397028</guid>
		<description>Here is my point-by-point rebuttal of the worst article I have ever read on The Roar. 

&quot;The true following of football in South Africa has been clearly reflected by the FIFA 2010 World Cup.&quot; (Nothing new here; most people have known this since before the end of the apartheid era).

&quot;Not only is football the biggest sport in South Africa, it is the only sport with true support among the 80 percent (40 million) black population there.&quot; (Really? It is the only sport all 40 million blacks support? None of them like rugby, or cricket, or track and field? What about the Coloureds? The Indians? Do we know what all of them truly support? Do their views even matter in this ‘essay’? What about the Whites? If they like soccer in South Africa, does that make them traitors to their ‘race’/colour?)

&quot;Rugby union remains a pillar of the old apartheid regime, so beloved by the likes of Danie Craven.&quot; (Remains? This implies it still exists. Last anyone checked, South Africa have had a couple of elections, and have been ruled by Xhosas and Zulus. NB: Danie Craven died many years ago, but for the sake of this ‘sentence’, what was “beloved” by Craven: the rugby or the apartheid regime? Question for the writer: was he a member of the Broederbond? Discuss)

&quot;Contrast the thousands of black faces in the crowds and in the streets with the almost exclusively white South African union crowds.&quot; (Really? Doesn’t it depend on where the game is held? If in Pretoria or Jo’burg, then yes there will be more whites, if in Cape Town, more blacks and coloureds. If you had a cricket game in north India, you would get more Gujaratis, Sindhis etc; if you held it in Calcutta, you’d get more Tamils. Etc)

&quot;The dribble we are fed that rugby union is the main sporting code of South Africa is shown up for being a mere wish of that code in competition with the real sporting choice for Africans: football.&quot; (Rugby union is the most SUCCESFUL sporting code in South Africa; hence more people identify with it, and are proud of it. Blacks used to hate it because it symbolised the oppressors but not any more. (Not all, obviously, but increasing numbers. It is also a class thing: the more affluent blacks/coloureds such as Habana identify with it more than those denied access to the sport.) When South Africa wins the football World Cup, or at least win the African Nations tourney again, then you will get more support from all sections of society. South African football was on a high in the mid-90s but wasted the opportunity. That is the problem with its football, nothing to do with apartheid and oppression.)

&quot;Unless rugby union really confronts its own past in South Africa in a meaningful and honest way, that sport will never move forward except among its Afrkiaaner-dominated following.&quot; (South African rugby is on a high at the moment and has been growing from strength to strength. The sport, along with most sectors of society, has confronted its past, probably when the country held its Truth and Reconciliation proceedings in the 1990s. Of course, there are still pockets of resistance, such as the AWB and Eugene Terreblanche and the likes, as well as people like Julius Malema. NB: The right spelling is ‘Afrikaner’. Afrikaans is their language.)

By the way, I am not South African.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is my point-by-point rebuttal of the worst article I have ever read on The Roar. </p>
<p>&#8220;The true following of football in South Africa has been clearly reflected by the FIFA 2010 World Cup.&#8221; (Nothing new here; most people have known this since before the end of the apartheid era).</p>
<p>&#8220;Not only is football the biggest sport in South Africa, it is the only sport with true support among the 80 percent (40 million) black population there.&#8221; (Really? It is the only sport all 40 million blacks support? None of them like rugby, or cricket, or track and field? What about the Coloureds? The Indians? Do we know what all of them truly support? Do their views even matter in this ‘essay’? What about the Whites? If they like soccer in South Africa, does that make them traitors to their ‘race’/colour?)</p>
<p>&#8220;Rugby union remains a pillar of the old apartheid regime, so beloved by the likes of Danie Craven.&#8221; (Remains? This implies it still exists. Last anyone checked, South Africa have had a couple of elections, and have been ruled by Xhosas and Zulus. NB: Danie Craven died many years ago, but for the sake of this ‘sentence’, what was “beloved” by Craven: the rugby or the apartheid regime? Question for the writer: was he a member of the Broederbond? Discuss)</p>
<p>&#8220;Contrast the thousands of black faces in the crowds and in the streets with the almost exclusively white South African union crowds.&#8221; (Really? Doesn’t it depend on where the game is held? If in Pretoria or Jo’burg, then yes there will be more whites, if in Cape Town, more blacks and coloureds. If you had a cricket game in north India, you would get more Gujaratis, Sindhis etc; if you held it in Calcutta, you’d get more Tamils. Etc)</p>
<p>&#8220;The dribble we are fed that rugby union is the main sporting code of South Africa is shown up for being a mere wish of that code in competition with the real sporting choice for Africans: football.&#8221; (Rugby union is the most SUCCESFUL sporting code in South Africa; hence more people identify with it, and are proud of it. Blacks used to hate it because it symbolised the oppressors but not any more. (Not all, obviously, but increasing numbers. It is also a class thing: the more affluent blacks/coloureds such as Habana identify with it more than those denied access to the sport.) When South Africa wins the football World Cup, or at least win the African Nations tourney again, then you will get more support from all sections of society. South African football was on a high in the mid-90s but wasted the opportunity. That is the problem with its football, nothing to do with apartheid and oppression.)</p>
<p>&#8220;Unless rugby union really confronts its own past in South Africa in a meaningful and honest way, that sport will never move forward except among its Afrkiaaner-dominated following.&#8221; (South African rugby is on a high at the moment and has been growing from strength to strength. The sport, along with most sectors of society, has confronted its past, probably when the country held its Truth and Reconciliation proceedings in the 1990s. Of course, there are still pockets of resistance, such as the AWB and Eugene Terreblanche and the likes, as well as people like Julius Malema. NB: The right spelling is ‘Afrikaner’. Afrikaans is their language.)</p>
<p>By the way, I am not South African.</p>
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		<title>By: Redb</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-396157</link>
		<dc:creator>Redb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-396157</guid>
		<description>Very unfair in this day and age. What a retro article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very unfair in this day and age. What a retro article.</p>
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		<title>By: ozby</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-396152</link>
		<dc:creator>ozby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-396152</guid>
		<description>Check the facts. There are more black people playing rugby then there are white people playing soccer. There are more black Springboks than there are white Bafana Bafana. One game stands for reconciliation, integration and progress, the other one doesn’t. Just study the trends The blacks who enter the middle class adopt rugby and leave soccer behind them. That is the way it’s going. So whose future are you talking about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check the facts. There are more black people playing rugby then there are white people playing soccer. There are more black Springboks than there are white Bafana Bafana. One game stands for reconciliation, integration and progress, the other one doesn’t. Just study the trends The blacks who enter the middle class adopt rugby and leave soccer behind them. That is the way it’s going. So whose future are you talking about?</p>
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		<title>By: Shahsan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-2/#comment-395989</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 19:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395989</guid>
		<description>To quote your good self: &quot;Glad we all agree union tells lies about South Africa.&quot;
Anyway, i really dont know where you are going with this. You&#039;re like a born-again fundmanetalist.
The reality is that there is no apartheid in SA rugby -- it&#039;s all marketing. Of course more people play and follow soccer than any other sport, but the &#039;Springbok&#039; is an important and succesful symbol, and not just for the white South Africans over the past 15 years, so naturally they remain prominent. All South Africans derive pride from follwing that team, as well as the succesful provinces. If the Bafana Bafana get their act together and wn a world cup or two they will get that kind of following too.
Soccer is also the most popular participation sport in the US and Australia, but they get much less airtime and coverage than other sports such as US football, basketball and baseball; and Aussie rules and rugby league., respectively. It is just history and, again, marketing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To quote your good self: &#8220;Glad we all agree union tells lies about South Africa.&#8221;<br />
Anyway, i really dont know where you are going with this. You&#8217;re like a born-again fundmanetalist.<br />
The reality is that there is no apartheid in SA rugby &#8212; it&#8217;s all marketing. Of course more people play and follow soccer than any other sport, but the &#8216;Springbok&#8217; is an important and succesful symbol, and not just for the white South Africans over the past 15 years, so naturally they remain prominent. All South Africans derive pride from follwing that team, as well as the succesful provinces. If the Bafana Bafana get their act together and wn a world cup or two they will get that kind of following too.<br />
Soccer is also the most popular participation sport in the US and Australia, but they get much less airtime and coverage than other sports such as US football, basketball and baseball; and Aussie rules and rugby league., respectively. It is just history and, again, marketing.</p>
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		<title>By: Forgetmenot</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-4/#comment-395923</link>
		<dc:creator>Forgetmenot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395923</guid>
		<description>And you still skirt around the fundamental flaws in your article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you still skirt around the fundamental flaws in your article.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-3/#comment-395905</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395905</guid>
		<description>Your &quot;articles&quot;? You have one piece on this site and it is too short and too lacking in structure to be called an article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your &#8220;articles&#8221;? You have one piece on this site and it is too short and too lacking in structure to be called an article.</p>
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		<title>By: Forgetmenot</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395851</link>
		<dc:creator>Forgetmenot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395851</guid>
		<description>Please read this:
http://www.sarugby.co.za/content.aspx?contentid=13200&amp;statscatid=2,9&amp;statsteam=South%20Africa

SARU is constantly trying to improve its relations with black South Africans.

Would you call Football a pillar of the old racist Australia (against aborigines)? The AFL has been very proactive in embracing indigenous Australians. 

I am not on either the Union or soccer side. I follow football. But your article was clearly written in an hour with very little research. You are now trying to pass the burden of proof onto the readers. 
I suggest you write a follow up article that actually covers all the issues dicussed in the comments. People like reading the article to find out about the topic, not the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please read this:<br />
<a href="http://www.sarugby.co.za/content.aspx?contentid=13200&#038;statscatid=2,9&#038;statsteam=South%20Africa" rel="nofollow">http://www.sarugby.co.za/content.aspx?contentid=13200&#038;statscatid=2,9&#038;statsteam=South%20Africa</a></p>
<p>SARU is constantly trying to improve its relations with black South Africans.</p>
<p>Would you call Football a pillar of the old racist Australia (against aborigines)? The AFL has been very proactive in embracing indigenous Australians. </p>
<p>I am not on either the Union or soccer side. I follow football. But your article was clearly written in an hour with very little research. You are now trying to pass the burden of proof onto the readers.<br />
I suggest you write a follow up article that actually covers all the issues dicussed in the comments. People like reading the article to find out about the topic, not the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-3/#comment-395846</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395846</guid>
		<description>Ok, I&#039;ll bite. 

1. Soccer
2. Soccer
3. Soccer

Now, what&#039;s your point and why do we care?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I&#8217;ll bite. </p>
<p>1. Soccer<br />
2. Soccer<br />
3. Soccer</p>
<p>Now, what&#8217;s your point and why do we care?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-3/#comment-395845</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395845</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say that they might take offence at the very fact that a few sentences of dribble was even published. If someone were to raise similar issues in a well thought out, detailed, structured and articulate manner, then I&#039;m certain they would in fact respond. 
The fact is that you come across as a stupid troll, and they&#039;ve seen plenty of you before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say that they might take offence at the very fact that a few sentences of dribble was even published. If someone were to raise similar issues in a well thought out, detailed, structured and articulate manner, then I&#8217;m certain they would in fact respond.<br />
The fact is that you come across as a stupid troll, and they&#8217;ve seen plenty of you before.</p>
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		<title>By: rugbyfuture</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-395842</link>
		<dc:creator>rugbyfuture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395842</guid>
		<description>theres no point in responding to this article anyone. for any question that you bring up, he doesnt believe, and any fact that you wiegh upon the &quot;contributor&quot; he ignores.

facts are facts, ignored or otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>theres no point in responding to this article anyone. for any question that you bring up, he doesnt believe, and any fact that you wiegh upon the &#8220;contributor&#8221; he ignores.</p>
<p>facts are facts, ignored or otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: rugbyfuture</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-6/#comment-395840</link>
		<dc:creator>rugbyfuture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395840</guid>
		<description>you&#039;re heavily mistaken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re heavily mistaken</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395838</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395838</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re welcome. I&#039;ll be sure to lend you a helping hand next time you fail to stick to your own topic ;) . But perhaps next time you could also start by submitting an article that actually had some analysis, or at the very least more than a few disgruntled rumblings.

As for Union fans in this country, yeah a lot of em do, but they&#039;ve still got nothing on the soccer ranks and their &quot;world game&quot; crap. I personally like the NRL, but I&#039;ll watch Rugby Union and the AFL. At least the three contact sports in this country aren&#039;t all up themselves in the way soccer is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re welcome. I&#8217;ll be sure to lend you a helping hand next time you fail to stick to your own topic <img src='http://cdn0.theroar.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  . But perhaps next time you could also start by submitting an article that actually had some analysis, or at the very least more than a few disgruntled rumblings.</p>
<p>As for Union fans in this country, yeah a lot of em do, but they&#8217;ve still got nothing on the soccer ranks and their &#8220;world game&#8221; crap. I personally like the NRL, but I&#8217;ll watch Rugby Union and the AFL. At least the three contact sports in this country aren&#8217;t all up themselves in the way soccer is.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395826</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395826</guid>
		<description>You also don&#039;t see other writers &quot;imploring&quot; other readers to gaze in wonder upon their brilliance as men of letters in comparison to their detractors. That was my point. Stay on topic and debate the issues, otherwise you leave yourself open to charges of hypocrisy. 
Furthermore, you seem to equate a response with the success of your argument, but insulting people always gets a response and that is essentially what you have done. You must remember that this is an Australian site and though we&#039;re getting a little more accustomed to soccer, there is one thing about the game that does still irritate many of us: cultural snobbery. Now, in reference to the situation in South Africa you may well be right, but your tone reminds me an awful lot of the bile spewed forth by the likes of Craig Foster out here. A man criticise the local football codes for being &quot;insular&quot; and carries on about the &quot;uniting power of football&quot;, but never seems to mention the uncomfortable aspects of the game, like how FIFA wouldn&#039;t allowed aids awareness campaigners to advertise near the stadia for fear of upsetting the fairy tale followers of the Catholic Church. Soccer followers in this country always come across as such cultural snobs; they act is if supporting an internationally popular sport makes them cosmopolitan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You also don&#8217;t see other writers &#8220;imploring&#8221; other readers to gaze in wonder upon their brilliance as men of letters in comparison to their detractors. That was my point. Stay on topic and debate the issues, otherwise you leave yourself open to charges of hypocrisy.<br />
Furthermore, you seem to equate a response with the success of your argument, but insulting people always gets a response and that is essentially what you have done. You must remember that this is an Australian site and though we&#8217;re getting a little more accustomed to soccer, there is one thing about the game that does still irritate many of us: cultural snobbery. Now, in reference to the situation in South Africa you may well be right, but your tone reminds me an awful lot of the bile spewed forth by the likes of Craig Foster out here. A man criticise the local football codes for being &#8220;insular&#8221; and carries on about the &#8220;uniting power of football&#8221;, but never seems to mention the uncomfortable aspects of the game, like how FIFA wouldn&#8217;t allowed aids awareness campaigners to advertise near the stadia for fear of upsetting the fairy tale followers of the Catholic Church. Soccer followers in this country always come across as such cultural snobs; they act is if supporting an internationally popular sport makes them cosmopolitan.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395816</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395816</guid>
		<description>To be honest I don&#039;t much care about the argument you&#039;re making. I simply take issue with somebody with no writing skills criticising others as if they were an English professor. May I point out that you&#039;ve still failed to provide an explanation for this arrogance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest I don&#8217;t much care about the argument you&#8217;re making. I simply take issue with somebody with no writing skills criticising others as if they were an English professor. May I point out that you&#8217;ve still failed to provide an explanation for this arrogance?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395812</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395812</guid>
		<description>The lack of articulation continues... 
You seem to be insinuating that someone has dealt with the points raised in my post, yet my post is concerned primarily with your request that us &quot;neutral readers&quot; compare the quality the arguments put forward by yourself and your detractors. Yet the catalyst for all the comments has been one incredibly badly written piece that doesn&#039;t qualify as an article. I&#039;ve seen no explanation as to why you would have such arrogance to criticise the writing of others, when your own effort above is so clearly inept. If you have explained why you put such little effort into writing this, then perhaps you could direct me to that particular post. If you haven&#039;t, then my comment cannot be considered &quot;disposed of&quot; unless that simply means you&#039;ve &quot;disposed&quot; of it because you have no answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lack of articulation continues&#8230;<br />
You seem to be insinuating that someone has dealt with the points raised in my post, yet my post is concerned primarily with your request that us &#8220;neutral readers&#8221; compare the quality the arguments put forward by yourself and your detractors. Yet the catalyst for all the comments has been one incredibly badly written piece that doesn&#8217;t qualify as an article. I&#8217;ve seen no explanation as to why you would have such arrogance to criticise the writing of others, when your own effort above is so clearly inept. If you have explained why you put such little effort into writing this, then perhaps you could direct me to that particular post. If you haven&#8217;t, then my comment cannot be considered &#8220;disposed of&#8221; unless that simply means you&#8217;ve &#8220;disposed&#8221; of it because you have no answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Forgetmenot</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395807</link>
		<dc:creator>Forgetmenot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395807</guid>
		<description>&quot;Rugby union remains a pillar of the old apartheid regime, so beloved by the likes of Danie Craven&quot;

A statement like this should be backed up with a journal article. It is a very bug accusation to make. Rugby Union has made very big strides in embracing the &#039;new South Africa&#039;.
Please have a read of the media articles that i have linked to near the bottom of page 1, they should be very good at improving your good discussion skills on the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Rugby union remains a pillar of the old apartheid regime, so beloved by the likes of Danie Craven&#8221;</p>
<p>A statement like this should be backed up with a journal article. It is a very bug accusation to make. Rugby Union has made very big strides in embracing the &#8216;new South Africa&#8217;.<br />
Please have a read of the media articles that i have linked to near the bottom of page 1, they should be very good at improving your good discussion skills on the topic.</p>
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		<title>By: JVGO</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395792</link>
		<dc:creator>JVGO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395792</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a neutral reader believe me and pretty ignorant of the arguments on either side and I didn&#039;t really see any facts presented in the article. Also the main accusation seems rather impossible as it is in fact pretty impossible to be a pillar of a regime that was toppled long ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a neutral reader believe me and pretty ignorant of the arguments on either side and I didn&#8217;t really see any facts presented in the article. Also the main accusation seems rather impossible as it is in fact pretty impossible to be a pillar of a regime that was toppled long ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin Black</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395788</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395788</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll put my information up against the rubbish spewed by the South African Rugby Union - which you appear to be replicating here - any day of the week.

Any changes regarding black athletes made by the South African Rugby Union have almost inevitably and universally been under intense pressure from the South African government. The government has said as much on numerous occasions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll put my information up against the rubbish spewed by the South African Rugby Union &#8211; which you appear to be replicating here &#8211; any day of the week.</p>
<p>Any changes regarding black athletes made by the South African Rugby Union have almost inevitably and universally been under intense pressure from the South African government. The government has said as much on numerous occasions.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Forgetmenot</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-3/#comment-395769</link>
		<dc:creator>Forgetmenot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395769</guid>
		<description>Could you please link me to the articles/journals that you used to write your article. 
Thanks in advance</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you please link me to the articles/journals that you used to write your article.<br />
Thanks in advance</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin Black</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395766</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395766</guid>
		<description>As for the Springboks title, I give you a quote from Keith Quinn&#039;s excellent The Encyclopedia of World Rugby...

&quot;With the arrival of the new multiracial South Africa, the term &#039;Springbok&quot; was deemed obsolete. It was seen as being a reminder of the days when whites only were allowed in South African teams. When they returned to the international scene, teams from the republic were to be known only as South Africa...&quot;

Very much like South African union generally...espousing high ideals, and falling well, well short.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the Springboks title, I give you a quote from Keith Quinn&#8217;s excellent The Encyclopedia of World Rugby&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;With the arrival of the new multiracial South Africa, the term &#8216;Springbok&#8221; was deemed obsolete. It was seen as being a reminder of the days when whites only were allowed in South African teams. When they returned to the international scene, teams from the republic were to be known only as South Africa&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Very much like South African union generally&#8230;espousing high ideals, and falling well, well short.</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin Black</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395756</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395756</guid>
		<description>Good to see the crazy comments of kovana etc. I was forced to respond to have been removed. Must have been quite a job. Performed only because I suspect the number of comments threatened 200...

Hopefully he (and his pseudonyms) are banned permanently.

Back to the issue at hand:-

Craven did in fact refer to rugby league players as &quot;reptiles&quot; and did his best to kill off rugby league in SA. Well said Akazie.

Rugby union also was a highly reluctant participant in the overthrow of apartheid as the structures of apartheid had made the Springboks the best union team in the world (with the New Zealanders). Craven&#039;s desperation to restart traditional union tours lay behind any meagre attempts to entertain dialogue with black leaders.

The 1995 Rugby World Cup was full of window dressing such as Rob Andrew&#039;s famed appearance before a group of rugby league players in Soweto (the players were Widnesian David Southern&#039;s doing I understand).

Mandela&#039;s appearance - contrary to the Invictus line - was due to his clear grasp of union&#039;s role as a pillar of apartheid. He grasped the symbolism of his appearance; unlike many union supporters watching on.

The FIFA World Cup and the story of black football in South Africa clearly show that soccer remains the big sport in that country despite the fact the people who follow it have been treated like vermin for decades on end. While this is still changing, some would argue at a snail&#039;s pace, soccer in South Africa still lives with the impact of a racist past in that country. Sporting attendances are one mere reflection of it.

Think about it.

For the record, I have travelled to Africa - including South Africa - extensively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to see the crazy comments of kovana etc. I was forced to respond to have been removed. Must have been quite a job. Performed only because I suspect the number of comments threatened 200&#8230;</p>
<p>Hopefully he (and his pseudonyms) are banned permanently.</p>
<p>Back to the issue at hand:-</p>
<p>Craven did in fact refer to rugby league players as &#8220;reptiles&#8221; and did his best to kill off rugby league in SA. Well said Akazie.</p>
<p>Rugby union also was a highly reluctant participant in the overthrow of apartheid as the structures of apartheid had made the Springboks the best union team in the world (with the New Zealanders). Craven&#8217;s desperation to restart traditional union tours lay behind any meagre attempts to entertain dialogue with black leaders.</p>
<p>The 1995 Rugby World Cup was full of window dressing such as Rob Andrew&#8217;s famed appearance before a group of rugby league players in Soweto (the players were Widnesian David Southern&#8217;s doing I understand).</p>
<p>Mandela&#8217;s appearance &#8211; contrary to the Invictus line &#8211; was due to his clear grasp of union&#8217;s role as a pillar of apartheid. He grasped the symbolism of his appearance; unlike many union supporters watching on.</p>
<p>The FIFA World Cup and the story of black football in South Africa clearly show that soccer remains the big sport in that country despite the fact the people who follow it have been treated like vermin for decades on end. While this is still changing, some would argue at a snail&#8217;s pace, soccer in South Africa still lives with the impact of a racist past in that country. Sporting attendances are one mere reflection of it.</p>
<p>Think about it.</p>
<p>For the record, I have travelled to Africa &#8211; including South Africa &#8211; extensively.</p>
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		<title>By: ozby</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-1/#comment-395647</link>
		<dc:creator>ozby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395647</guid>
		<description>Check the facts. There are more black people playing rugby then there are white people playing soccer. There are more black Springboks than there are white Bafana Bafana. One game stands for reconciliation and progress, the other one doesn&#039;t. Just study the trends The blacks who entered the middle class adopt rugby and leave soccer behind them. This is the way it&#039;s going. So whose future are you talking about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check the facts. There are more black people playing rugby then there are white people playing soccer. There are more black Springboks than there are white Bafana Bafana. One game stands for reconciliation and progress, the other one doesn&#8217;t. Just study the trends The blacks who entered the middle class adopt rugby and leave soccer behind them. This is the way it&#8217;s going. So whose future are you talking about?</p>
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		<title>By: True Tah</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395604</link>
		<dc:creator>True Tah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395604</guid>
		<description>This has to be one of the worst articles ever published on the Roar.  Whilst it is clearly written by someone who clearly hates rugby, it has absolutely no basis for its claims whatsoever, nor does it present any information whatsoever to substantiate its claims.

It is clear that futbol is no.1 sport in South Africa, and that is never in dispute.

However by labelling rugby as a pillar of the apartheid regime is appalling, and I cannot believe this sort of rubbish was even allowed to be published by the editors.

Franklin Black, I challenge you to say this article to the likes of Tendai Mtawirra, Bryan Habana, JP Pieterson, the Ndungane brothers, Breyton Paulse, Chester Williams, Jongi Nokwe, Guthro Steenkamp, Ashwin Willemse, Zane Kirchner, Conrad Jantjes and many other black/coloured players.

It is easy to be a hard man over the internet, albeit a very poorly informed one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has to be one of the worst articles ever published on the Roar.  Whilst it is clearly written by someone who clearly hates rugby, it has absolutely no basis for its claims whatsoever, nor does it present any information whatsoever to substantiate its claims.</p>
<p>It is clear that futbol is no.1 sport in South Africa, and that is never in dispute.</p>
<p>However by labelling rugby as a pillar of the apartheid regime is appalling, and I cannot believe this sort of rubbish was even allowed to be published by the editors.</p>
<p>Franklin Black, I challenge you to say this article to the likes of Tendai Mtawirra, Bryan Habana, JP Pieterson, the Ndungane brothers, Breyton Paulse, Chester Williams, Jongi Nokwe, Guthro Steenkamp, Ashwin Willemse, Zane Kirchner, Conrad Jantjes and many other black/coloured players.</p>
<p>It is easy to be a hard man over the internet, albeit a very poorly informed one.</p>
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		<title>By: Fussball ist unser leben</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-4/#comment-395601</link>
		<dc:creator>Fussball ist unser leben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395601</guid>
		<description>Not that it matters, but defender, Matthew Booth is a white player in the 2010 squad and is one of the most popular players in the hearts of South Africa&#039;s (predominantly black) supporter base, and they shout out &lt;i&gt;&quot;Boooooooooth&quot;&lt;/i&gt; whenever he touches the ball.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that it matters, but defender, Matthew Booth is a white player in the 2010 squad and is one of the most popular players in the hearts of South Africa&#8217;s (predominantly black) supporter base, and they shout out <i>&#8220;Boooooooooth&#8221;</i> whenever he touches the ball.</p>
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		<title>By: Alders</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/07/10/fifa-world-cup-shows-up-lies-of-sa-rugby-union/comment-page-5/#comment-395457</link>
		<dc:creator>Alders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=33542#comment-395457</guid>
		<description>Look, a bit of an article clearly intended to provoke. 

1. It is hardly a common claim by normal rugby folk that rugby is the number one participant sport in SA.
2. It does have outstanding attendance figures. 
3. They have gone a long long way in adjusting their approach from the position 20 years ago which is a recognised mistake and they do have a long way to go. It isn&#039;t the only sport with a questionable history supporting corrupt regimes. What is North Korea doing in any international competition?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, a bit of an article clearly intended to provoke. </p>
<p>1. It is hardly a common claim by normal rugby folk that rugby is the number one participant sport in SA.<br />
2. It does have outstanding attendance figures.<br />
3. They have gone a long long way in adjusting their approach from the position 20 years ago which is a recognised mistake and they do have a long way to go. It isn&#8217;t the only sport with a questionable history supporting corrupt regimes. What is North Korea doing in any international competition?</p>
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