Hosting World Cup will help us conquer the last frontier
Columnist By Adrian Musolino, 15 Jul 2010 Adrian Musolino is a Roar Expert
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Australia's Brett Holman, center, celebrates with fellow team members Harry Kewell, left, and Mark Bresciano, right, after scoring a goal during the World Cup Group D soccer match between Ghana and Australia at Royal Bafokeng Stadium in Rustenburg, South Africa, on Saturday, June 19, 2010. (AP Photo/Marcio Jose Sanchez)
Australian football’s date with destiny looms large on the horizon now that the 2010 World Cup is over. On 2 December, FIFA announces the hosts for the 2018 and 2022 tournaments. Should Australia land the 2022 World Cup, it’ll be a game changer for the sport in this country.
Forgetting the inevitable and enormous wave of patriotic fervor and party atmosphere that would accompany us hosting teams and fans from 31 countries around the world (just ask South Africans what that’s like), there would be a huge economic benefit.
According to the business information research and analysis group IBISWorld, a World Cup on our shores will result in $35.56 billion of spending across our economy, compared to the estimated $9.1 billion of spending during the Sydney 2000 Olympics.
Not a bad return for the $11.37m of taxpayer-funded money being spent to bid.
According to Simon Hill of Fox Sports, “South Africa welcomed nearly 400,000 visitors during the World Cup – in total, the tournament’s contribution to the nation’s GDP was 93 billion rand ($14 billion) – enough to add half a percentage point to its annual growth (estimated to be three per cent this year).”
And unlike the 2000 Sydney Olympics, those benefits, economic and otherwise, will be spread across the country, from Adelaide to Townsville.
But the benefits will be more intrinsic to Australia’s sporting prowess leading into and following the World Cup.
For the FFA, it will provide the chance to create a 12-year blueprint to drastically alter the structure of the game, invest in youth development and solidify the structures around the A-League and state leagues, with the ultimate goal of being in a position to follow the example of Uruguay, Italy, Germany, Argentina, England and France and win a World Cup at home. In fact, the number of countries to win at home should act as even more of a spur to use this opportunity to invest in the possibility of winning a World Cup.
If you want proof of the unifying power of sport and the difference an investment in hosting major events can make, look to the new world champions, Spain, with decades of regional divide being replaced by the united celebration of their sporting successes.
So often the underachiever, Spain is now, arguably, the number one sporting nation on the planet.
In addition to their European and World Cup football titles (not to mention Barcelona’s recent success at club level), Spain is champions in basketball (winners of the 2006 FIBA World Championship’s and silver medalists from the 2008 Beijing Olympics), tennis’ Davis Cup, and silver medalists in men’s field hockey – successes in arguably four of the most global sports.
Rafael Nadal is the world number one in tennis and rattling off Grand Slams; Alberto Contador is set to claim his third consecutive Tour de France; Pau Gasol has established himself as a key ingredient in the Los Angeles Lakers’ NBA dynasty; Fernando Alonso has won two Formula 1 championships this past decade and could have had more; and Jorge Lorenzo is well on his way to the MotoGP title.
Spain is reaping the rewards of the huge investment and spending that went into the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, in terms of facilities, infrastructure and youth development (several government and corporate funded scholarships, etc). It’s also the inevitable result of increased interest in sport from youngsters and their parents that comes with hosting such a major sporting event.
Following their World Cup victory, Spain has conquered the final (and most difficult) sporting frontier.
The expression “last frontier”, used so fervently by Craig Foster (who else?) and others, is fitting in Australia’s case.
Australia has conquered so many of the sporting world’s frontiers; from numerous Olympic disciplines, the America’s Cup, rugby World Cup, hockey World Cup, Davis Cup, Formula 1 and motorbike world championships, etc, etc.
And even in those frontiers that remain elusive, in the far reaches of the sporting world, Australians are close to conquering them or increasing in competitiveness – think the Tour de France, American motorsports, basketball and more.
But the football World Cup is the one that counts the most and will be the most difficult to win for a country hamstrung by its stunted history.
It won’t be easy.
Look at Holland; a nation that revolutionised how the game was played in the 1970s and has been lauded for its youth academies, which have produced an endless stream of talent, yet has never won a World Cup.
Stephen Samuelson, sports editor of smh.com.au, recently wrote a controversial piece summed up best by its title: “AFL is a dead-end sport that hinders us on global stage.”
While I disagree with his dismissal of the importance of the AFL to Australian society and culture, he is right to suggest there is more to gain in terms of Australia’s international reputation and prowess by producing the next Tim Cahill, Mark Webber, Cadel Evans and co, rather than channeling funds and focusing only on our domestic codes and producing their next crop of stars.
Hosting a World Cup will help provide that impetus and investment for football in Australia; a goal to work towards in developing the game so the Socceroos are in a position to challenge for the World Cup come 2022.
And as IBISWorld, South Africa and Spain have proved, football won’t be the only winner.
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July 15th 2010 @ 9:05am
Towser said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:05am | Report comment
The bottom line is regardless of facts figures Simon Hill or IBIS, even being succesful in a WC bid,Australians will choose collectively what future sporting trends will be.
If Australians long term choose the way of the Foz over the traditional diverse sporting tradition of the Oz, or vice versa then thats the way it happens.
Personally as far as football goes,the work done at coaching level from grassroots upwards is the most important part of the game.
Not much chop if we do succeed in getting the World Cup if we do a Bafana Bafana.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:13am
Squire Gordon said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:13am | Report comment
I am all for Australia hosting the world cup and hope that it occurs 2022. Winning the trophy is another thing entirely. There are a number of reasons but here is one to ponder – population. Here are the 8 winners of the world cup and their respective populations: Brazil 193 million, Germany 82 million, France 65 million, Italy 60 million, England (not UK) 49 million, Spain 47 million, Argentina 40 million and the one amonaly Uruguay 3.5 million (which makes their efforts of 2 world cups and semi finals this campaign simply stunning). The point is (yes there is one!) is that Australia just doesn’t have the depth of coaching and player talent or football infrastructure to win it, not against these big boys and others like the Netherlands or sleeping giants Mexico and USA. Especially when our population is fractured into other codes and other sports. If winning the world cup is the ‘final frontier’ then don’t expect to find it around the corner, maybe a few million miles past pluto.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:31am
Towser said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Should have joined the debate Squire Gordon in the article I submitted yesterday. All about Australia’s difficulties in winning the World Cup.
In the end it gave me a headache, all the facts figures populations,registered players,number of WC appearances etc.
July 15th 2010 @ 11:35am
Whites said | July 15th 2010 @ 11:35am | Report comment
There was no qualification for the 1930 world cup, only 13 teams competed, 4 of them from europe(Belgium, France, Romania, and Yugoslavia) and the rest from the Americas. The 1950 world cup was the first after WW2. Many countries either did not send teams or were weakened by WW2. It was also held next door in Brazil. Although Uruguay have generally always produced strong football teams their 2 world cup wins need to be looked at in context.
From 1954 the world cup had proper qualifying processes and generally contained all the best teams in the world.
It seems to me that to have any chance of winning a world cup a country needs to have a base level population of about 20-25 million along with a strong football culture. Although we have 4 football codes at a young age a larger percentage of the populations first contact with team sport is soccer. When kids get older they often move on to one of the other codes. What football needs is programs in place to identify these kids before they move on to the other codes. I’m sure that across the 4 football codes there is the talent, if harnessed at the right age, for Australia to produce a team with a chance of winning the world cup.
One advantage Australia has over many of those european countries that have won the world cup is demograhpics. They may have bigger populations now but they also have declining populations while Australia is still growing. As the football infrastructure develops and the population gap narrows Australia may have a greater chance of winning a world cup. If it was just a matter of the biggest football playing population Brazil would win every time.
Football is a game that often doesn’t result in the best team winning but whoever gets the most balls in the back of the net. From the round of 16 onwards progression in the world cup can often be a matter of luck. This time the best team, Spain, won the world cup but Uruguay were not far off riding their lucky breaks into a world cup final. Once your in the final anything can happen. The Netherlands were only 5 minutes away from penalties.
July 15th 2010 @ 12:12pm
JF said | July 15th 2010 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Totally agree Squire Gordon, we simply are not built for it. This argument can be looked at totally objectively, firstly – talent is what is required to win, we will only ever produce a level of talent in accordance with our population i.e low. This is then divided by the number of professional football codes in the country i.e more than any other country in earth and twice as many as any country that has previously won the world cup. How does anyone expect to get around these facts?
July 15th 2010 @ 10:03am
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 15th 2010 @ 10:03am | Report comment
To be fair to Kurt he does raise some valid points. I haven’t gone through the costing rationale myself though would be surprised if the numbers did not take into account net benefits, still they need to be questioned in order to test the level of confidence we can have in the numbers.
What the World Cup does bring is the chance for heavy investment in mass transport, which is normally a hard political sell in a society where the car plays such a dominant role. There are a number of infrastructure investments that go beyond stadia, as well as social investments such as in policing and emergency health services, which are also required.
At the end of the day the best way to answer the question of the potential value of hosting the World Cup is with another question; would we have preferred to never have hosted the Sydney Olympics?
July 15th 2010 @ 10:30am
Baz35 said | July 15th 2010 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Ben, all the published economic evidence points to an negative net benefit from hosting the WC
As someone with knowledge in this area (i hate playing that card but anyway), you simply do not take seriously ex ante research on “economic benefit” that is not published. You certainly do not elevate IBIS world’s “estimates” on “spending” to the same level of published economic research whose assumptions and findings need to be assessed by other impartial economists before it is published
July 15th 2010 @ 4:00pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 15th 2010 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Baz, I do agree with you in terms of finance that things indeed can be wooly around mega-events, however finance is not economics. Social momentum that such event can create allow the opportunity for public goods to be invested in that yield long term public benefits. Mass transport being a good example. These can be difficult to promote during other occasions as they usually contain short term private costs, particularly in a car dominated society such as ours. Hence the private individual votes against them, in their private capacity, creating political obstacles to what would appear rational long term decision making. Hence the long term economic benefits depend largely upon however this window of opportunity is utliised.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:06pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
I reckon I’ve been pretty consistant all along that if the FIFA WC bid for Australia is required to finally get a rail link from Melb (Tullamarine) airport to the city, and to get the ring Rd finaly completed (the N-E section Greensborough around to Eastern),…..then I’d be very much more ready to support it.
However, the justification by claims of economic benefit of building stadiums that soccer alone doth not justify in this country is a bit of a tragic joke – - because, in the AFL states at very least – - the nominated stadiums will get built anyway because they ARE economically justified already by the AFL.
If such projects are deferred and then packaged into a WC ‘spending spree’ as some form of justification…..well, that’s a tad bit dodgey, as, it probably concentrates the activity rather than spreads it out more evenly over a longer period of time. Peaks and troughs aren’t nearly as good as steady progress.
So – - it’d be nice if it wasn’t going to be all about some upgrade to Homebush to attempt to rival the Beijing Olympic stadium or Soccer city in Jo’burg. It’d be nice if there was certain to be real social progress as a result of projects ‘justified’ because of the event.
However – - if the event itself is no more than a redistribution of regular tourism numbers – - – or marginally more – - then, the justifications should exist anyway without holding the major FIFA fundraiser.
July 15th 2010 @ 10:56am
DB said | July 15th 2010 @ 10:56am | Report comment
I see the WC as being one big Sydney W@nkfest, I mean the government can afford to build a new stadium in the western suburbs of Sydney giving them 3 stadiums to play out of, but cant upgrade the rectangular stadium in the heart of Australia’s sporting capital Melbourne for 2 stadiums and for less money.
As far as I’m concerned another country can have it.
July 15th 2010 @ 12:19pm
jimbo said | July 15th 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Melbourne isn’t exactly the sporting capital of Australia – its the Aussie Rules capital of the world.
The reason most of the action will be in Sydney is mainly because Sydney people are more tolerant of other sports than Melbourne people and the CEO of the AFL has made such outrageous demands on the WC bid, that the government couldn’t afford to honour them.
Be careful what you wish for.
July 15th 2010 @ 1:38pm
True Tah said | July 15th 2010 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Jimbo
how do you explain Melbourne Victory’s success – they are by far and away the most successful club of the HAL, draw average crowds twice that of Sydney FC…and yet you have the hide to say Sydney is more tolerant of sports than Melbourne!!!
July 15th 2010 @ 1:44pm
Axel V said | July 15th 2010 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
The Boxing day test (cricket) doubles the crowd of Sydney. The Melbourne Victory attendence have been way highe rthan Sydney FC over all the A-League seasons 23,000 vs 15,000 (including near bottom for Victory in V1 and V4 and being in reduced capacity olympic park) The Australian Open (tennis) got 650,000 last year, The Melbourne Grand Prix (F1) gets 300,000, The Melbourne Cup (horse racing) gets 100,000 The AFL Average attendence is 40,000 per game compared to the 17,000 average of NRL clubs.
If Melbourne isn’t the sporting capital of Australia, I’d like you to tell me what is?
July 15th 2010 @ 3:21pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
yeah – it’s a tired old piece of jealous rhetoric to label Melbourne as being anything but a vibrant multi sports supporting city that has a far, far greater history of sustaining on going annual events and effectively permanent sporting ‘engagements’ as compared to Sydney and it’s more ‘event’ oriented approach (i.e. Becksmania as a perfect example).
July 15th 2010 @ 3:27pm
Towser said | July 15th 2010 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
C’mon Michael C your just jealous that Becks can get both guys & gals to stare at him in underpants.
July 15th 2010 @ 7:11pm
jimbo said | July 15th 2010 @ 7:11pm | Report comment
Melbourne has 10 Aussie Rules teams in the AFL and heaven help you if you try and do something during the AFL season in Melbourne.
Even the pre-season is sacred to them when they tried to stop the A-League Grand Final being played at Etihad because of an Aussie Rules pre-season game.
The lack of cooperation from the AFL in Melbourne is blatant and obvious.
In my eyes Melbourne will always be the AFL Capital of the World and has never shown the same attitude to the world and world sport that Sydney has.
July 15th 2010 @ 7:47pm
BigAl said | July 15th 2010 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
I could get stuck into you here as well, but I won’t , , , simply because of the mercy rule of blogging !
July 15th 2010 @ 10:55pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 10:55pm | Report comment
BigAl -
yeah, I thought about it too, but, with some people it’s just not worth biting any more.
July 16th 2010 @ 12:07am
Kurt said | July 16th 2010 @ 12:07am | Report comment
Quite correct. You just have to look at how much bigger Sydney FC crowds are than Melbourne Victory crowds to see that…oh hang on…
July 15th 2010 @ 12:29pm
Chuq said | July 15th 2010 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Perhaps if Victoria’s government, media and dominant sporting organisations were as co-operative as the NSW equivalents, Victoria may be getting more venues/games?
Victoria: “Hands off our MCG!”
New South Wales: “We’ll upgrade Homebush to 90k and a glass retractable roof!”
July 15th 2010 @ 8:29pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 8:29pm | Report comment
Victoria: “Hands off our MCG!”
when??? the MCG was always on the table (for up to 10 weeks). It’s Docklands what wasn’t. And, Victoria, the state govt that is, built a $267.5 million dedicated rectangular stadium with foundations to go to 50,000ish.
Now – - tell me – - what was not welcoming about that?? I fail to see how you can claim that Victoria hasn’t been welcoming??
and the FFA only ever talked of 2,……I repeat, …..2 Victorian venues.
So – - where has Victoria lost out???
MCG and Skilled stadium. To me, that equals TWO!!!!
The FFA is a Sydney centric organisation determined to annoy the crap out of the NRL in their toe to toe battle for rectangular stadia throughout NSW and QLD and to have a short cut of grass.
July 15th 2010 @ 12:51pm
Axel V said | July 15th 2010 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
DB havn’t you heard? Sydney is the greatest city in the world! The weather is always perfect, it has the friendliest people, it has the most passionate supporters in australia of all sports!
In regards to the world cup qualifiers and friendly’s, I think they should all be in Sydney. The rest of Australia is a waste of time, it’s not like Perth or Adelaide deserve to ever host a world cup qualifier anyway. And Melbourne doesn’t have a football supporters base at all, one of the weakest in the country.
All 7 world cup qualifiers should be in Sydney!
July 15th 2010 @ 12:21pm
General Ashnak said | July 15th 2010 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
I see that the main reason a lot of you are saying we shouldn’t hostthe World Cup is that it will cost tax payer funds? In that case we should cease funding for every sporting code in Australia by government at all levels. I hope that you are going to your local state and federal MP and local government councils to lobby for a stop to this complete waste of taxpayer money. I think you should also be forming an economic lobby group to help push your case further.
If this is not your argument, i.e. sport provides no long term tangible benefit to the economy, then I am sorry I do not see what is? Could you please be clearer without reference to economic studies on how sport is of no benefit to the ecomony?
July 15th 2010 @ 2:38pm
BrisbaneBhoy said | July 15th 2010 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Now while I am hoping that Australia does win the WC rights for 2022l, I’m not daft enough to say it will be a money maker.
Yes there will be money made, but at the same time money spent. The way I like to look at it, besides the money the hospitality/tourism will make, is – Jobs will be created with upgrades of stadia.. Public transport will be improved (again creating more jobs), which I can’t speak for other cities, but the likes of Brisbane and Townsville really needs. Then there is all the benefits fro the tourism and hospitality leading up to and after the WC and confederation cup have come and gone.
So there are benefits of hosting the biggest tournament on the planet. It won’t been seen as such in money, but in infrastructure that while needed, is so often dragged about and more so then not delayed.
As for hospitals, surely they will be upgraded to to help with the coping of the damage football hooligans will cause *I kid
*
July 15th 2010 @ 3:17pm
True Tah said | July 15th 2010 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
The Federal & State Governments need to develop the following stadia; Newcastle, Canberra, Townsville ASAP.
The FIFA Inspection Committee is coming to assess each bidder, and I have a feeling when they come here, our stadia are a bit of a let down, FIFA dont like oval pitches, so they probably wont like MCG, Subiaco, Adelaide.
I feel that a joint Australia/New Zealand bid would have been a far stronger proposition. After RWC 2011 there will be plenty of updated modern stadia suitable for a FIFA World Cup.
Plus Im sure FIFA wouldnt want the host nation not making it out of their pool, South Africa was the first, do you want Australia to join them as the only hosts to have not progressed out of their pool? Will Australia (in 12 years) be strong enough to do this?
July 15th 2010 @ 4:28pm
apaway said | July 15th 2010 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
True Tah
It’s a good concept, but FIFA won’t entertain the prospect of a joint bid, especially when the two countries are currently located in different confederations.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:55pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
don’t like oval pitches and yet we so often see WC matches at venues with running tracks b/w the field and the crowd…..including several recent FINAL venues such as Berlin and Yokohama.
The oval nature or not only impacts the 80,000 to 100,000 in attendance…….it doesn’t impact the billions or however many TV viewers.
Why would FIFA care too much??
July 15th 2010 @ 2:40pm
Tom said | July 15th 2010 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
1000 people to the fanfest world cup final at darling harbour tells australia that we are not ready for this.
The greater public do not care about football.
I love football and have British parents but I still think australia do not deserve to host the world cup. Australia is not an attractive preference of FIFA and the game needs another 20 years of development before we are close to a proposal with some substance. I was in England 2 months ago and I could not believe the support on all levels for their bid. Not to mention the hype surrounding the team going to south Africa.
Football in this country needs to crawl before it walks. It some how needs to break the stigma of it being a sport for sissies and fags. In my team i coach I see top players dropping out in the mid to late teens that have so much potential, I ask them why and most move to league or afl. We have the most amazing junior pool of players that wittle away as they become young men. The Aussie culture is all about being macho and tough and our game is skillful but gentle. If only we could hold our juniors.
July 15th 2010 @ 2:42pm
Mega said | July 15th 2010 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
How can you make that assumption based on the number of people going to a live site at 4:30am in the dead of winter to watch the World Cup on a big screen?
July 15th 2010 @ 2:57pm
General Ashnak said | July 15th 2010 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
Sorry? 1,000? I am sure that it has been reported that over the 4 weeks a total of 500,000 (gross figure, i.e. total attendance) went to the Fanfest.
Also since the only a federation from Asia or North America can win 2022 who of the bidders do you think should get it? They are Qatar, Japan, South Korea, Australia & the USA for your information.
July 15th 2010 @ 11:38pm
ItsCalledFootball said | July 15th 2010 @ 11:38pm | Report comment
There were a lot more than 1,000 people at Darling Harbour for the WC Final – more like 20,000 – the place was packed.
July 15th 2010 @ 3:14pm
apaway said | July 15th 2010 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
1000 people at 4.30am on a winter’s morning to watch a giant televsion coverage of a game not involving an Australian team? Could you tell me what other sport in this country would have attracted such a number (by the way, there were about 30,000 there for Australia’s game v Germany).
July 15th 2010 @ 3:19pm
Towser said | July 15th 2010 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
Guess whos doing a creative writing course at Uni?
Should pass too.
July 15th 2010 @ 3:50pm
The Special One said | July 15th 2010 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
26 Billion on Construction? Are the stadiums made of gold??
The way i see it, Frank Lowy convinced Kevin Rudd that a World Cup would be good for Australia.
The reality though is that the FFA need it desperately. The socceroos will struggle to make world cups in the future and the a-league aint so crash hot. If that happens soccer will become less of a draw for australians.
Getting the World cup though gives the FFA something it needs which is Relevance. Why do you think they couldnt care less about the oval stadia the games will be played in? They just want it here.
Even if the socceroos miss out on the next world cup or 2 they can say “we are building for 2022″ etc etc.
July 15th 2010 @ 5:14pm
Midfielder said | July 15th 2010 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
Sometimes even at my tender age I am amazed at how something like the WC which is without doubt the worlds biggest sporting event… is spread across an entire country and will build stadiums for every code genders so much fear and false statements…
The AFL bloggers on this issue … you imply corruption, false accounting, false statements, hype, question public documents, quote the worst reviews of every other event…
I do wonder aloud at times whyyyyyyyyyy …. especially when the AFL will receive the best by far of new stadiums and compo .
Then I question were this culture comes from and how has it developed… no doubt some football rusted on hard cores have been some of the reason .. but it goes beyond the Roar to some media folk and it appears into the heart land of the AFL HO…
I then wonder with 12 years advance warning more than likely three media deals away … why certain things are impossible for the AFL to do…
I further ask myself is this the feeling of all AFL folk ….
I don’t think I have any answers to my questions .. well maybe one and it is a BIG maybe and more than likely NOT true … It is said many perceptions and bias are based upon our own behavior … if so are the very things the AFL accuse football of actually current AFL practice … as I said the answer is probably no and it was even silly to suggest that could be the case…….
Will be interesting the FIFA bid folk are in OZ soon … await with baited breath the support from the AFL and AFL media … I assume nothing bad will be said or implied when the FIFA inspection is on….
July 15th 2010 @ 5:24pm
MVDave said | July 15th 2010 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
Mid
If you’ve got time read the article from Bill Simmons ESPN.com Basketball Columnist linked (takes 5-7 minutes but worth it). This guy is a major Basketball fan/author but his take on the WC in SA and the US involvement is interesting particularly point/question 20;
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100701
l think we could safely say his response to Q 20 is why so many seem to have a fear of the WC coming to Oz.
July 15th 2010 @ 6:04pm
Don said | July 15th 2010 @ 6:04pm | Report comment
Interesting read. Liked the comment “We always want our national soccer team to succeed; it would be un-American to feel differently”. Strangely, here in Oz so many consider it unAustralian to want our national team to succeed.
July 15th 2010 @ 6:28pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 15th 2010 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
I’m still trying to work out what unAustralian means. Especially since I think ‘unAustralian’ is pretty unAustralian.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:40pm
dasilva said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:40pm | Report comment
Unaustralian just means – personal attributes you don’t like
July 16th 2010 @ 11:21am
Michael C said | July 16th 2010 @ 11:21am | Report comment
shouldn’t that be ‘un-Austrayan’??
July 15th 2010 @ 6:24pm
Farqwar said | July 15th 2010 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
I like this comment
“When that Ghana player had to be carried off on a stretcher at the tail end of the America game, then hopped off like nothing ever happened as soon as the stretcher was out of bounds, I thought that was appalling. Actually, it made me want to go to war with Ghana. I wanted to invade them. I’m not even kidding. That’s another great thing about the World Cup: Name another sport in which you genuinely want to invade other countries when you lose.”
So true!
July 15th 2010 @ 6:58pm
MVDave said | July 15th 2010 @ 6:58pm | Report comment
When asked what was the strangest part of the WC…
“To hear Germany described in such likable, underdoggy tones. Who would have thought these young upstarts would jell this fast? It’s like the announcers were talking about the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays or something … if the Tampa Bay Rays had started two world wars and nearly brought down Europe.” Classic.
July 15th 2010 @ 7:35pm
Bristler said | July 15th 2010 @ 7:35pm | Report comment
Actually you are incorrect; Bill Simmons is a sports columnist and sports fan – not a basketball-only columnist. Although basketball is his greatest love he is just as passionate about the NFL, college basketball and baseball (he has stated in podcasts and columns that he used to watch almost all of the red sox’s games – all 162 of them). As such, it is not unusual that he would enjoy another sport; for many Americans, following multiple sports is normal and therefore mocking and criticising other sports is rare, as are code wars. This is not the case in Australia. The overwhelming majority of Australians really only follow one or two sports passionately. There is a long history of mocking other codes (from “wogball” to “Thugby” to Gayfl). Take you for an example, I have never read a comment of yours that has been complimentary about another sport. It is not fear from footy, rugby league or assoc. football fans, it is ignorance and closed-mindedness. I can understand someone not liking a sport, but the dismissal of other sports as soft/unskilled/simple etc is pathetic and uniquely Australian, so drawing any conclusion from an American writer regarding the Australian sporting environment is highly flawed.
July 15th 2010 @ 8:23pm
MVDave said | July 15th 2010 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
“I can understand someone not liking a sport, but the dismissal of other sports as soft/unskilled/simple etc is pathetic and uniquely Australian’ Sorry to disappoint you Bristler but you are very incorrect…it is not unique to Australians at all. You only have to read some of the sokkah haters in the US sports media to disprove your claim…just a quick search on google and we find…Jim Rome, Chuck Klosterman, Frank Deford with no doubt plenty more standing in line to kick the code. l’m sure a decent search would uncover plenty. Have you read any blogs on the World Cup at sites such as Huffingtonpost.com/sports or on media sites such as tvbythenumbers.com? Do yourself a favour and read some of the vitriol that comes out whenever the topic turns to sokkah or the World Cup.
Now of course doesnt make it right to have code wars (tis a bit of harmless fun really) but to claim that in some way or form the Yanks are above such silliness is absolute BS. There are millions in little ol US of A that want to make sure these foreign sports stay out cause they are un American!
BTW Thanks for keeping an eye out on my posts…hopefully you keep enjoying them
BTW2 thanks for clearing up about Bill Simmons he writes articles and books on Basketball and loves the game but also enjoys other sports
July 15th 2010 @ 8:44pm
Farqwar said | July 15th 2010 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
Agree Dave, The USA is possibly the most appropriate comparison for Australian football, and good to see they’re coming around also : )
July 15th 2010 @ 8:49pm
Bristler said | July 15th 2010 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
Love your posts – always entertaining.
Klosterman isn’t even a sports journalist, Deford is very old school and Jim Rome is a laughing stock to anyone with a brain, but you are missing the point (I assume you don’t read or listen to Simmons very often). He writes as a typical sports fan and guy and represents the under 40s ‘new breed’; Rome and Deford certainly don’t. I have spent time in the US and have followed American sport for more than a couple of decades, so I feel somewhat qualified to say that American sports fans are more open-minded than Australians. Take Assoc. Football out of the argument, you rarely hear american football and basketball fans mock the others’ sports like you would between footy and league fans. And that is the difference; young sports fans in the US are more likely to try new sports than young Australians, and IMO, young Americans are more worldly than young Australians these days too. As such, any comparison between the two is futile.
PS I repeat, Simmons is NOT a basketball-specific writer, he is a general sports writer. In fact, in the 10+ years I have been reading his work, he has probably written more articles on baseball than any other sport.
PPS America has 300 million people living there. I can’t help but LOL at you picking a couple of articles from google and using them to form an opinion on the entire population. Spend time there (and not just a week) and then you can make an educated comment.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:11pm
MVDave said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:11pm | Report comment
Fair enough l bow to your experience in the US although l spent time there in 2009.
l will be reading more of Simmons if thats his standard (yes it was the first time l’d heard of him) and yes l’ll consider him a sports writer.
l spent only a few seconds on google to find a few anti sokkah scribes in the US…no doubt there are plenty more to find with some time…why are they threatened by sokkah? (l find it hard to take sokkah out of the argument as that is my sport).
” young sports fans in the US are more likely to try new sports than young Australians, and IMO, young Americans are more worldly than young Australians these days too. As such, any comparison between the two is futile.” Not so sure on this one but have no data to back me up. However with a 300m pop there will be plenty who are worldly and willing to give new sports a chance (but also plenty who arent and wont). TBH l’ve thought that Aussies and Americans were more defensive about their codes and so this was more of a similarity between us. But hey more of the ‘new breed’ writers please if Simmons is the standard.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:27pm
Bristler said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
Simmons is probably the most famous “new breed” sports columnist but if you don’t follow US sports then it is fair enough if you haven’t heard of him. He is a Tottenham fan and wrote about how he came to support them some time ago, so you may wish to track that down. Another US writer I recommend can be found at http://www.davesfootballblog.com/. I believe it as voted one of the top 100 American Sports blogs. He follows all of the football codes but prefers American Football, Association Football and Australian Football.
July 15th 2010 @ 9:42pm
MVDave said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Thanks for that Bristler…will check it out.
July 15th 2010 @ 8:23pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
Midfielder -
why?
simple – - to ensure that an open and transparent discussion is had with a spectrum of views and opinions presented and considered.
Obviously we see the pro-soccer and pro-World Cup (pro-soccer) folk going hammer and tongs with – - generally – - the best possible numbers quoted.
However, as we’ve seen – - because soccer doesn’t rule the roost in Australia – - other codes severely impacted and whose cooperation is paramount have taken steps to ensure that if the ‘economic benefit’ attributed to the soccer event is to be at the expense of normal annual economic activity – - – then fair and reasonable compensation will be payable.
If there’s no reason to be concerned about such – - then pro-WC and pro-soccer folk have no reason to be concerned!!
Simple as that – - – if the FIFA WC in Australia means so much more than a simple reshuffling of existing economic activity – - then everyone will be winners.
Now – last time the FFA hosted FIFA folk the FFA were busy showing off venues that they knew they had no right to and the AFL had put on record to the FFA that the AFL would not relinquish………so,……what will the FFA do to embarrass themselves this time??
July 15th 2010 @ 8:55pm
MVDave said | July 15th 2010 @ 8:55pm | Report comment
“Obviously we see the pro-soccer and pro-World Cup (pro-soccer) folk going hammer and tongs with – – generally – – the best possible numbers quoted.” Sounds like a plan!
Of course you forgot to mention the anti WC brigade (mainly consisting of AFL bloggers?) quoting the worst possible scenarios…basically the country will go down the toilet if we host a WC…ahhh…funny how so many countries want something that is…so damaging and detrimental to their economies, infrastructures etc etc
Now l’m not blaming you MC for all the anti WC rhetoric as you do seem to have a slightly ‘ajar’ mind on this.
How many more WC threads can be posted between now and December??? Basically the same info with the same bloggers lined up on either side…
July 15th 2010 @ 9:42pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Yeah – - probably.
Hey – - as I try to keep saying – - – let’s instead look at the range of possibilities,
have the scenarios put on the table so we all understand the range from worst case, bad case, middle ground, good case and best case scenarios.
And just ensure we know the costs and risks and benefits involved.
We ain’t a big country and we need to pull together, so, it’s gotta be transparent and mutually beneficial. I’m trying to work out how else to put it to make it any clearer for some who immediately label a questioning comment as being ‘anti WC’. I always thought it was good to ask questions early rather than just seeking retribution after the event!!!
July 15th 2010 @ 9:55pm
Midfielder said | July 15th 2010 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
MC
Let me give you a strange reply …. it is part of an article I wrote published in “Half Time Heroes” (BTW post WC issue due out next week).
K’naan born in Somalia … is a Muslim… who now lives in Canada… he sung a song called “wav your Flag” at the opening concert for the WC…
In the quite hours turn off your screen and listen to the words … what a powerful song … Dylan would be proud…
So a African Muslim singing to the world about how the Africans have been poorly miss-treated…. but love is the answer… mate a black American student who is a friend of one of my sons broke down and cried his eyes out when this song played … that made me listen…
For all the bad things FIFA does and there are many .. it does a heap of good things … the Black Eyed Peas … a mega group in the US … sung with such pride …
Almost impossible to put in words how the acts put there heart and soul into this concert … this concert has had over 600 million youtube hits …. Shakira song Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) alone has had when the different versions added together 200 million hits…
So MC there is a difference between what you ( in a global sense) demanding whatever it is you want FFA to do and almost refusing to even acknowledge what is good..
So to the song that brought a 22 year old US kid miles from home to tears in y home … may mean nothing to you but by heck it must mean something to a lot of folk around the world… http://www.youtube.com/2010FIFAWorldCupVEVO
July 15th 2010 @ 10:14pm
Michael C said | July 15th 2010 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
strange is true.
I’m not quite sure what your point is??
that there are songs written and performed that deliver a message………and so the WC opening ceremony is a nice ‘stage’ for such.
Cool.
What’s that got to do with Australia hosting a WC??
July 15th 2010 @ 10:29pm
Midfielder said | July 15th 2010 @ 10:29pm | Report comment
MC
If you need to ask no answer is acceptable … if you known no answer is needed …
MC for all its pitfalls, broken promises, and whatever the FFA are doing a wonderful job with this bid we have gone from rank outsiders to one of the favorites …. many countries in the world want this event .. so does Australia… the constant questioning and scare articles seem strange unless the objective is too loose … [cough cough Tanking] … sorry that was a cheap shot…
But MC read this and this is why in spite of all the bad people come up with this is good stuff… some of the words to the song I referred you too…
Born to a throne, stronger than Rome
A violent prone, poor people zone
But it’s my home, all I have known
Where I got grown, streets we would roam
Out of the darkness, I came the farthest
Among the hardest survival
Learn from these streets, it can be bleak
Accept no defeat, surrender, retreat
So we struggling, fighting to eat
And we wondering when we’ll be free
So we patiently wait for that fateful day
It’s not far away, but for now we say
When I get older I will be stronger
They’ll call me freedom just like a wavin’ flag
And then it goes back, and then it goes back
And then it goes back, oh
So many wars, settling scores
Bringing us promises, leaving us poor
I heard them say ‘love is the way’
‘Love is the answer,’ that’s what they say
But look how they treat us, make us believers
We fight their battles, then they deceive us
Try to control us, they couldn’t hold us
‘Cause we just move forward like Buffalo Soldiers
But we struggling, fighting to eat
And we wondering, when we’ll be free
So we patiently wait for that faithful day
It’s not far away but for now we say
When I get older I will be stronger
They’ll call me freedom just like a wavin’ flag
And then it goes back, and then it goes back
And then it goes back, and then is goes
July 16th 2010 @ 4:47am
Beast-A-Tron said | July 16th 2010 @ 4:47am | Report comment
“I then wonder with 12 years advance warning more than likely three media deals away … why certain things are impossible for the AFL to do…”
I then wonder why these obligations are incumbent upon the AFL?? It’s not their WC after all.
So far I have never seen a logical answer to this question.
People throw out this ’12 years’ lameness and don’t realise how ridiculous it is; attempting to shift financial burdens onto the AFL merely by virtue of the fact they have ’12 years’ to get it done.
I take this excuse as admission that the person cannot think of any decent reason why the AFL should be expected to shoulder said burden, thus they fall onto their last line of arguement: 12 years being sufficient to allay real financial concerns.
Note: they never explain how these concerns are solved, it is just assumed that the passage of 12 years will automatically smooth out the details and everyone will be better off.
So far this piss poor assumption has not been defended.
The AFL has been rather professional in their demands, attempting to clarify details and costs here and NOW, rather than waiting 12 years to find out they got butt-f@cked.
July 16th 2010 @ 11:02pm
apaway said | July 16th 2010 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
What crap. The AFL (in the guise of Andrew Demetriou) stated that they may have to cancel an entire season if the World Cup bid was won by Australia, because there would be nowhere to re-schedule games if the MCG was out of action for 12 weeks. That caused a degree of hysteria that worked to his advantage. It all got a lot worse when FFA attempted to secure Docklands – a mistake on their part which played right into the hysteria Demetriou had whipped up. The contention was that IF Australia won the World Cup bid, the AFL had 12 years to come up with alternative venues for the time that the MCG (and now Skilled Stadium) were unavailable.
July 18th 2010 @ 6:17pm
Beast-A-Tron said | July 18th 2010 @ 6:17pm | Report comment
“The AFL (in the guise of Andrew Demetriou) stated that they may have to cancel an entire season if the World Cup bid was won by Australia, because there would be nowhere to re-schedule games if the MCG was out of action for 12 weeks.”
Half-true. Note, the the qualifier “may” was contingent on the rectangularisation of the MCG; an option which has since been scrapped.
Any resultant “hysteria” as you put it, is the fault of the sensationalist and subjective ramblings of the Fourth Estate. Many so-called ‘journalists’ have inaccurately reported this saga, but don’t worry I’m clarifying it for you. If you actually read what Andrew Demetriou said about that ‘potential cancellation’, you’ll find that he backs up everything he says with objective reasoning; he does not descend into emotional and loaded arguements; there was absolutely nothing hysterical about what A.D. said in regards to the season cancellation.
Demetriou never said it was an absolute, and went to great paints to explain the conditions under which a cancellation MAY occur.
Also, Demetriou is very careful in what he says, notice the avoidance of absolute qualifiers and a preference for relative qualifiers. If you think he is anti-soccer, bad luck for you, because he is doing a brilliant job at maintaining plausible deniability.
You seem to need education on some basic English, because you failed to pick up on these points Andrew was making. Allow me to enlighten you:
http://changingminds.org/techniques/language/modifying_meaning/qualifiers.htm
http://www.memidex.com/absolute-qualifier
But I digress, getting back to your flawed explanation of the ‘potential cancellation’ of an AFL season:
this has been explained hundreds of times, yet you persist in deceptively framing the story omitting crucial facts, why do you do it?
Apaway let me ask you a serious question: why do you continue to push this dishonest version of events? You’ve been repeatedly called out on this particular topic, yet you continue to lie.
Don’t be dishonest, tell the full story apaway.
“The contention was that IF Australia won the World Cup bid, the AFL had 12 years to come up with alternative venues for the time that the MCG…”
Yep and I reject this contention. This is a poor excuse to lay the heavy-lifting onto the AFL, ‘let them sort it out, they’ve got twelve years’. It is not AFL’s World Cup, it is Soccer’s WC and as such it is not incumbent upon the AFL to figure out stadia scheduling and other financial concerns, for a rival competitor’s tournament.
That task is incumbent upon the FFA. If they don’t like it (not having the upper hand), then they can provide their own funds & stadiums, that is fair.
Like I mentioned before I do not hold to this ’12 years’ arguement, so far no one has explained why ’12 years’ is a sufficient answer to real concerns TODAY. Note, I have seen this excuse used in arguement against the AFL, not just in reference to the MCG scheduling, but ALSO in reference to other points of concern regarding the WC bid.
This is most frequently observed on 442 & TWG.
So you see, your contention only covers one aspect of this lame excuse, which has been used multiple times in attempt to railroad genuine AFL concerns.
Let me repeat that a third time, just so even you of all people can get it: “12 years to come up…” has been used on several occasions(even here on The Roar); not just the anecdote you refer to.
I’m attempting to refute this utterly ridiculous line, once and for all. This is not how business works folks, you don’t just put sh!t off for 12 years and hope it works out for the best.
July 18th 2010 @ 6:49pm
Australian Football said | July 18th 2010 @ 6:49pm | Report comment
When did Ben Buckley ever say he would rectangularise the MCG for the Football World Cup..?
Give me some evidence that was a realistic option that the FFA were ever considering.. Give me a quote.. It was a fabrication and belief of the AFL press.
July 18th 2010 @ 10:30pm
Michael C said | July 18th 2010 @ 10:30pm | Report comment
AF -
time frame for you.
Dec 7 – 2009 : ANDREW DEMETRIOU: We are led to believe that the MCG would need to be decommissioned for around about 16 weeks. That is because they want to put some seating in on the lower bowl. I mean, if that is true that would put our season in jeopardy and that is something that we need to get some clarification on.
Dec 8 – 2009 : Football Federation Australia, which is bidding for the World Cup in 2018 or 2022, was forced to back away from a $130 million plan to reconfigure the MCG into a rectangular playing field.
FFA boss Ben Buckley, a former senior AFL executive, said the proposed $130 million reconfiguration was just one option.
“That’s a very, very expensive option and it’s not necessarily one that we propose to push forward with,” he said.
So – - Demetriou states ‘IF’ the MCG reconfig is true, then season would be in jeopardy. That’s a conditional statement.
And – - Buckley admits it is but one (expensive) option.
And, how do the soccer heads react?? This is where it started getting distorted,
Dec 12 – 2009 Stan Lazaridis – For Demetriou to say the World Cup could put three or four AFL clubs out of business is uncalled for.
Now – - Demetriou never said unconditionally that a WC was putting clubs at jeopardy,
Demetriou spoke of the conditional situation around the extended loss of the MCG (and Docklands).
Given that everyone was fine over the MCG for no more than 8 wks (and the AFL willing to hand over for up to 10 wks)…..no problem there.
And Docklands,…..well, funny that there’s still people who blame the AFL that Vic only has 2 venues,….and yet, never was it suggested that there would be more than 2 venues and one of those (back in 2008) was assumed to be AAMI park……ah well!!!
July 19th 2010 @ 10:08am
Australian Football said | July 19th 2010 @ 10:08am | Report comment
“That’s a very, very expensive option and it’s not necessarily one that we propose to push forward with,” he said.
You see it was never a serious option that BB endorsed or was considering.. He lampooned the idea from some unauthorised suggestion from an AFL inspired journo no doubt. Even the most ardent Football supporter could see that was never a consideration. In a later TV news report he explained that the only work to be done was to corporate boxes, media facilities, and the players dressing rooms.
July 19th 2010 @ 10:16am
Michael C said | July 19th 2010 @ 10:16am | Report comment
AF (KB),….are you there???
we get sick of this same old argument over and over and over again,
please stop making inflaming comments, and then running away when a proof is provided.
please check out the time line, the links, the statements, and acknowledge it. Otherwise, we’ll only ever be spinning our wheels which is tiresome for everyone (especially theRoar editors I dare say!!).
July 19th 2010 @ 11:52am
Australian Football said | July 19th 2010 @ 11:52am | Report comment
No Proof—BB lampooned any suggestion. I asked you to give a quote from BB that he was seriously considering the idea… There is NONE ! ! Stop the lies…
_____
AF