The A-League doesn’t care about active fans
Columnist By Mike Tuckerman, 23 Jul 2010 Mike Tuckerman is a Roar Expert
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- A-League, Ben Buckley, Edwin Lugt, FFA, football
Football Federation Australia’s latest advertising campaign focuses heavily on fan participation. But while FFA officials publicly spruik the wares of active fans, it seems that they’re busy trying to restrict that very same participation behind closed doors.
One of the A-League’s new “fan-made” ads shows an elderly shop assistant unrolling metres of sky blue fabric, before the cutaway reveals the spectacular sight of Sydney FC fans flying their impressive Skyline banner before an A-League match.
That’s a sight you won’t see ahead of the much-anticipated Grand Final rematch between Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory on August 7, if word trickling through from Sydney FC fans is anything to go by.
Following consultation with private security firm Hatamoto, FFA officials have allegedly decided to slap a ban on banner pullovers at “high risk” games, presumably due to the potential risk posed by fans lighting flares underneath flammable material.
But what rankles Sydney supporters is the complete lack of consultation between themselves and the FFA, with members of Sydney’s popular supporters group The Cove accusing “non-football” people of making decisions which clearly affect their matchday affairs.
It’s a trend that we’ve seen across the board in the A-League, and the shadowy involvement of security firm Hatamoto deserves further scrutiny.
In a fabulous piece posted on his blog The Accidental Australian last September, Melbourne Victory supporter Guido wondered if the FFA understands football fans, or whether they’re so caught up in protecting the “brand” that they are at risk of alienating genuine supporters.
It’s those supporters who invest their time and money into creating banners in the first place, but because of the actions of an unruly few, the majority of law-abiding fans – many of whom despise the use of flares – are now being punished.
And it’s not just active fans who lose, but those who turn out at A-League games in part because of the atmosphere, as well as those who tune in to watch the games live on Fox Sports.
I know how much effort goes into producing an atmosphere at games because I stood with The Cove throughout Sydney FC’s inaugural campaign, and like most reasonable supporters, I believe that the decision to ban pullover banners at so-called “high risk” games smacks of hypocrisy.
Surely it’s the use of flares which poses the real problem; so why does the FFA employ Hatamoto simply to record fans with video cameras, while little is done to stop fringe elements from bringing flares in to begin with?
My friend and colleague Jesse Fink was scathing in his criticism of the decision in his column for ESPN Star during the week, and I’m inclined to agree with his claim that “FFA will soon be selling a product no one wants to buy.”
At the end of the day, the FFA advocates fan culture through their slick advertisements, yet punishes fans for trying to engage in the real thing come matchday.
And this from a league which has been bleeding fans for the past three seasons, with many active supporters fed up with being treated with disdain by officials happy to take their money so long as their style of support conforms to the template laid down by the likes of Hatamoto.
The whole thing must be desperately frustating for Sydney FC officials, who have worked hard to re-engage with supporters under the auspices of CEO Edwin Lugt.
The experienced Dutchman is a genuine football man, and his backroom staff have worked closely with Sydney supporters to foster the kind of mutually beneficial relations needed for A-League clubs to survive well into the future.
That’s a lesson the FFA would do well to learn, because in their current guise they’re turning away the very same supporters whom they expect to show loyalty to their “product.”
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- A-League, Ben Buckley, Edwin Lugt, FFA, football
July 23rd 2010 @ 10:35am
mds1970 said | July 23rd 2010 @ 10:35am | Report comment
It’s a shame that such bans are necessary, but there’s a safety issue involved. The materials in these pullovers are flammable, and if one were to catch fire, especially on a hot and windy day (remember that the A-League is mainly a summer comp), it would be a tragic event.
Unfortunately it’s a case of a few idiots spoiling it for the majority. As long as there are pyromaniac perpetrators at A-League games, bans like this will stay in place. If’s a shame for the majority who try to support their team responsibly; and the responsible people in those “active” areas must be even more filthy at the scumbags who do the wrong thing.
As a Sydney FC season ticket member, but not in The Cove, the pullovers make a spectacular sight from where I sit in the western grandstand; and it’s a shame to see them go. But unfortunately it’s the idiots letting off the flares who have spoiled it.
July 23rd 2010 @ 11:26am
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 23rd 2010 @ 11:26am | Report comment
The flares are the other half of the equation. Fans need to ensure that those who have a love affair with flares are ostracized. There will always be people who feel a level of social inadequacy (hell, it’s practically a mandatory part of being a teenager) and need something akin to a flare to bring attention to themselves, so the challenge is to ensure that the attention they receive is unwelcome hence encouraging them to express themselves in different ways.
Banning pullovers is dealing with symptoms however it is the fans that need to deal with the underlying problems, not stadium security. They have to consider short term problems and symptoms, hence their reluctance towards pull-overs. Whilst as fans we need to remind security that these indeed symptoms we also need to see things from their perspective and pull our own weight in dealing with any longer term systemic behavioural problems within our own ranks.
I’m glad that the pull-overs are allowed to remain, they look magnificent; let’s also hope drums, trumpets, flags and all the other paraphernalia that makes football crowds so much fun also remain. However let’s also do our bit to make sure that the FFA nor stadium security are forced into a corner so that they have to react. At the end of the day our fate is very much in our own hands.
July 23rd 2010 @ 12:55pm
rovers2011 said | July 23rd 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
in defense of flares, imo they do add to the atmosphere when celebrating goals especially. Its a bit more than attention seeking, they do look great. Its a question of doing it safely and it not being open slather. Otherwise u have idiots dropping them from a top level or throwing them on the ground. In an ideal world we could give groups a “flare quota” of five a year for special occasions
July 23rd 2010 @ 3:33pm
Cpaaa said | July 23rd 2010 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Fantastic and totally agree Rovers2011. Everything is ok as long as it is excepted. Currently Football Fans are a menace to society and only because the FFA has made it this way. Frank Lowy begged us all to suppport the new League in the inaugural, he of all people should know better the difference football supporters bring to live games.
Has anyone got the stats of how many people have been hospitalised over flaring as compared to being drunk and disorderly???
July 23rd 2010 @ 3:43pm
Mr said | July 23rd 2010 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
The child that was killed in Spain a couple of years ago should be warning enough.
Look up stupid in the online dictionary and you’ll find this;
July 23rd 2010 @ 3:47pm
AndyRoo said | July 23rd 2010 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Plus 1
July 23rd 2010 @ 4:06pm
Cpaaa said | July 23rd 2010 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Mr is that the best you got ?
Spain is sooo crazy.
They smoke cigars at stadiums. Its very annoying and stinky, and there is children around.
They dont even wear helmets riding bicycles, imagine that, they are really not scared of injury, but they must have a bell.
they dont even wear steel capped boots on construction sites.
Mr. Shoot me down if you must. My point is WHY is Australia so precious. By treating us like irresponsible idiots we become idiots. Flares is the most extreme tool brought to a football match. Ok you win, now explain the ban on everything else?
Drum sizes, banners, trumpets,flags, waving poles, umbrellas, seating allocations, water bottles, singing, video cameras and the list goes on.
July 23rd 2010 @ 4:33pm
Mr said | July 23rd 2010 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Maybe the stadium you visit is stricter than Sydney Football Stadium.
Megaphones – Allowed
Drums – Allowed – large enough to coordinate 3 bays
Flags – Allowed – often in home end – large size standards were also at the 09/10 GF at Etihad
Pullover Banners – Allowed (on the proviso that there are no flares lit underneath)
Two stick standards – Allowed
Water bottles – Allowed
Singing, chnating, clapping, jumping – Allowed
Video Cameras – No problems with video on my phone
Trumpets – Banned after the threat of vuvuzuelas
Seating Allocations – Same as the English Premier league, Aussie Rules
I don’t know which is your home stadium. I’m guessing that you’re from Melbourne and are referring to Docklands security.
July 23rd 2010 @ 11:58am
Art Sapphire said | July 23rd 2010 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Hatamoto are security consultants. How do they generate more business??
By exaggerating risks and security threats when selling their services to clients.
Its like any other line of business. They don’t care about football, they just care about the bottom line.
Problem is the FFA are swallowing everything they suggest.
Remember, it was Hatamoto that suggested the Eureka flag be banned at Victory matches.
Thanks for the update Jubal1. Good to see the lastest silly ban has been overturned.
Flares are banned in the Bundesliga, a country with a great culture in active support.
This example, should show many active supporters that they are not really needed at A-League grounds.
The obvious solution is open channels of communication between supporters, clubs and the governing body.
It will reduces Hatamoto’s bill and foster good relation with all parties. They all have the same goals.
Finally, the opening of the new stadium at Melbourne will make ripping flares a much more difficult proposition as CCTV coverage will be on a much bigger scale compared Etihad stadium.
July 23rd 2010 @ 6:31pm
Cpaaa said | July 23rd 2010 @ 6:31pm | Report comment
im in Brisbane Mr.
Suncorp is very controlled. Bay 332 behind the goals the only supporters bay.
Beat a drum one seat over and you will get asked to move. ive seen this a few times.
Dont try and stand either, youll be quickly asked to take your seat.
I was asked to close my umbrella, on a rainy night with no one around me. rules are rules and we just except them, even if it dosnt make sense. I was threatened to be kicked out, if i did once more.
July 23rd 2010 @ 6:57pm
Mr said | July 23rd 2010 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
My experience to yours is very different. I guess that’s a result of the hard work put in by SFC Cove to improve the match day experience.
Good luck with Ange this season and I might see you up there.
July 24th 2010 @ 7:12am
Cpaaa said | July 24th 2010 @ 7:12am | Report comment
Mr. My team is Sydney FC. I do go to Roar games and try to get to GCU games as much as possible, but originally from the South. Never the less i still hope Ange does well.
Really looking forward to Nicky in the blue this year.
Keep up the fantastic work at the Cove.
July 23rd 2010 @ 12:02pm
Anthony Begbie said | July 23rd 2010 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Great work by the Cove and Sydney FC to negotiate the reversal. If you take away the fans affinity and affection for their club, then all you are left with is a very ordinary professional football league. I can understand their being safe-ty issues, but i think its now more important than ever for supporter crews to work with the FFA, and also with themselves, to ensure when they are using something like a pull-over, that they ensure they know who will be under and to try avoid let in random fans who might ruin it for the rest of anyone.
It doesnt matter how much you kick and scream, but if there are instances where-by there is real safety concern, the only decision that that the FFA can make is to ban them. Its the responsible thing to do, and everyone can imagine the harm this sport would receive in the media here about injuries and damage caused by flares.
July 23rd 2010 @ 3:17pm
mintox said | July 23rd 2010 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
At first I was right on the band wagon and about to agree with the article but then I took a few seconds to think about it, and what if someone did light a flare undereath a pullover, as stupid and unlikely as that might be, we just couldn’t take the risk.
Imagine the damage it would do to A-League name and the field day that the anti-football establishment would have if people were hurt due to something as dumb as that.
Yes the FFA need to stop flares being brought in (or the supporter groups need to discourage supporters from doing it), but if that’s not going to be 100% possibly then they are better off making sure that the worst case scenario doesn’t happen.
July 23rd 2010 @ 3:46pm
Cpaaa said | July 23rd 2010 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
I am not giving up on the flares. I must admit that there is something exciting about it. Something that most of you will never understand or experience. Crucify me for this but i dont care. There is more danger of driving your car to the stadium then a flare causing you any harm. We all love fire works, but a flare is considered hooliganism? gimme a break. Lets not forget there are different types of flares as there are fire works. Baby ones to smokey ones.
Also these rules about drum sizes tooo big and so……..OMG, its happening again,im sorry lads.im turning green with anger again……..i need to go for a walk. toooo many rules!!!
July 23rd 2010 @ 4:16pm
Art Sapphire said | July 23rd 2010 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
I agree cpaaa – there is something exciting about flares. But, as I said in my post, the Bundesliga also has a ban on flares, yet they have amongst the best active support in football.
You will just have to travel to to Greece, Turkey, Brazil etc to see flare displays. But, these cultures, unlike Australia, have a live for the day mentality, which means less nanny state but also less duty of care to its citizens.
I don’t have a problem on the FFA’s ban on flares. They don’t need the publicity from a bad incident. Last season a female security guard lost a few fingers at a Panathinaikos game. This incident is not going to stop flares in Greece as its use is entrenched but if something similar happened here then the headlines will be terrible.
The real issue with FFA is their lack of consultation with the fans and the clubs in regards to the match day experience.
July 23rd 2010 @ 4:19pm
Harvey the Scouser said | July 23rd 2010 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
there is something exciting about flares
you want excitement, you ought to see me in my tight 70s style flares
July 23rd 2010 @ 4:33pm
Art Sapphire said | July 23rd 2010 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
I’ll pass on that Harvey, but thanks for the offer
July 23rd 2010 @ 4:15pm
Roar fan in Adelaide said | July 23rd 2010 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Well done to Jubal1 and Sydney FC for working this out together. I have had mixed experiences with security in The Den at Roar home games and we really have to get the clubs to work with their fans to achieve a balance. Suncorp have a ban on people taking their shirts off for instance ? WTF ? Where’s the safety or security threat there ??? But then we have had security intervene on our behalf when some blow ins started getting aggro when we wouldn’t sit down – in the designated standing area – so plaudits to security for sorting that out. Can’t see the attraction with flares though. Are you (Cpaaa) suggesting they should inspect flares and allow those on your safe list ? Not very practical I’d suggest and waving anything highly flammable around in a croded and confined space is a recipe for disaster. Keep em out, and also pleased to see Hindmarsh Stadium here in SA has banned vuvuzelas as a public nuisance. No problem with drums, trumpets etc but that mindless drone adds nothing to atmosphere at all in my opinion.
July 23rd 2010 @ 4:33pm
MVDave said | July 23rd 2010 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Interesting that the ‘Active support areas’ at both ends of the new AAMI Park stadium have been sold out by MV. Clearly there are plenty of fans who want to do more than just sit, watch and clap. The FFA and each club should be working with their ‘active fan groups’ (as per the example of SFC above) to work through any issues and make all fans feel important and wanted. The active fans add to the experience of a football game and l for one love their color and noise.
July 23rd 2010 @ 5:54pm
Mr said | July 23rd 2010 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
Both ends? Any idea where the away bay will be located. Where will Heart be for the derby?
July 23rd 2010 @ 6:24pm
MVDave said | July 23rd 2010 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
MV have 2 large and separate supporter groups located at either end ie North end/south end chant.
Away supporters are located in one corner of the stadium for MV home games (think up to 400-500 spaces). The derby and SFC, AU home games are at ES. No doubt when MH host MV at AAMI MV supporters will be given one end at least.
July 23rd 2010 @ 6:07pm
Cpaaa said | July 23rd 2010 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
All good posts,except Harveys, which may give me nightmares.
Are you (Cpaaa) suggesting they should inspect flares and allow those on your safe list ? my answer is no.
The exciting thing about it, is partly because they are banned. Its a sign of rebellion. Without rebellion there is control. A-League fans are controlled. I have chosen to talk about the flare, the only devise that comes close to be classed as a health and safety issue. Everything else is fine…yes. Apparently Not, its that which is killing the atmosphere.
Football is a world game, so for one moment think about how Australian crowds are compared to what you see overseas…..
A-League fans would have to be one of the worlds best behaved, YET, YET in stadiums they are treated like second class citizens in a controlled environment of a few seats. The more police and security get involved, the worse it looks on the game and drives fans away. the more you allow fans to do what they please, the more they will be looking to having a great time, great for the fans, and wonderful for the game.
My vision of the A-League is that we do not breed hooligans. Unlike parts of Europe, where fists and bats were once considered which firm is the tuffest. we dont have that kind of hate over here.
In Australia and ASIA, it is the group of fans that can cheer the loudest, the most flag barers and singing in harmony that will rule the roost of Asia. We dont have to have the best quality of football on the field as long as we make up for it in the stands.
I am not going to convince anyone about flares. I see it as that little pimple that may pop up from time 2 time and to just tolerate it. I see that Art is right in his statement above. But if fans are given too many rules of how and not to support their teams, then i say…..lite it up.
July 23rd 2010 @ 6:27pm
Andyroo said | July 23rd 2010 @ 6:27pm | Report comment
Cpaa, credit too the active support for their part but I never sit there (as I normally take Andyroo junior with me to the football).
I also attend rugby league matches and have done since I was a tot and have no problem with the atmosphere at those games despite it mainly being people seated and a lack of active support. Their is one thing lacking at Bne Roar games though and that’s fans that knowthe players names. No mattter where you sit at the league their will be someone shouting abuse or praising certain players. At the Roar games last year I often felt that very few people I was sitting near would know who Tommy Oar was and maybe even Craig Moore!
Perhaps the effect of putting all the active supporters together leaves just the librarians arround the rest of the ground or the general public need more FTA A league exposure.
Or could just be the non alcohol sections suck.
July 23rd 2010 @ 7:00pm
Ben of Phnom Penh said | July 23rd 2010 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
there are non-alcohol sections!?! Damn.
July 24th 2010 @ 12:22pm
Rob Gremio said | July 24th 2010 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
The last couple of times I went to Suncorp to watch the Roar, my wife and I were nearly kicked out because we were swearing at the players who kept screwing up (typical of the Roar last season, sadly, so I couldn’t tell you which players I was singling out – they were all pretty crap, except Tommy Oar).
Security at Suncorp is heavy handed outside the active support areas, and it really drives me mad. It’s that librarian thing you referred to, Andyroo. The security guy said it was because there were “kids nearby” and that such language was inappropriate. We looked around, and the closest kid was two or three bays over. So whenever we go now, my wife and I just swear in Portuguese, which is also fun. We had a real red-hot go at the Gold Coast United Brazilians in the final game between those teams at Suncorp last season. I’m not sure whether it was Robson or Anderson who was on our side of the pitch, but boy did he cop a pasting from us. He looked up a couple of times too, to see where the vitriol was coming from!! Good times…
July 24th 2010 @ 12:46pm
Farqwar said | July 24th 2010 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Ha ha, I took my Brazilian mate to See Sydney FC play Persik Kaderi in the ACL.
Persik had a Brazilian player named Fernando in their team and my mate was yelling stuff at him in Portuguese and people around me were laughing. When I asked my mate what he was saying he grinned and said “Go home Fernando”
By the way, he is from Porto Alegre and a massive Gremio fan, Boo Inter!
July 25th 2010 @ 1:14pm
Rob Gremio said | July 25th 2010 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Sounds like that Brazilian mate of yours is a good bloke!
Boo Inter indeed.
It’s always good fun to single someone out from the opposition and heckle them. Mind you, my wife and I have also heckled Reinaldo at the Roar on more than one occasion. The most un-Brazilian Brazilian you will see. How the hell is he still playing here? First touch of a bouncer breaking up a fight (I usually use another, more ‘R’ rated analogy), not much chop on the dribble, and none of his flicks and “clever” touches come off, with the obvious exception of his goal vs Sydney in the second leg of that semi-final a few years ago. That was a great goal, but the only one I’ve ever seen where he has actually lived up to the hype. I am always waiting for him to prove me wrong.
July 24th 2010 @ 7:37am
Cpaaa said | July 24th 2010 @ 7:37am | Report comment
Im one of those librarians to these days Andyroo. I watch and analise the game from the side lines. The active supporters do make things happen no matter if there is action on the field or not…..its good news that SBS TWG is moving to Monday nights, so now they can break down all the weekend games. Small steps forward, but slowly we getting there.
July 25th 2010 @ 4:32pm
NUFCMVFC said | July 25th 2010 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
Good article Mike,
One of the issues here for me is that this consultancy firm only seem to be able to think in terms of regulatory measures such as over the top penalties, because given their lack of any career experience in football and with football fans they can’t think of any proper ideas to produce a climate at games where they are vibrant but there is a low risk of anything developing past early stages of the escalation cycle
Which brings me to another point, why did the FFA hire them in the first point given their lack of any background in football? If people look back there was no constructive consultation or engagement with fan groups to try and reduce problems (many of which were a beat up) post season 3, Seems the FFA “suits” or whatever people want to call them are merely concerned with the idea that active fans are bad people and a risk because of the capacity for bad TV images. Let’s just forget the fact they are ominous in their silence when this rubbish gets put on TV.
Ironically their solution of basically choking active support and over sanitisation of the league to the point where it’s becoming boring, plastic and soulless, plus increasingly excessive penalties for minor infringements which just pushes already committed fans away (and hence discourages them from brining half interested associates along via word of mouth) will ruin the A League more surely than the occasional media beat up or flare under a banner
For a start, the FFA should have gotten advisors who can advise police and security on how to position and deploy in reference to collectively minded crowds, and then how to engage with these collectively minded crowds in such a way that reduces the capacity for conflict, but the opposite seems to happen. Not to mention people who can engage with fans in such a way to encourage vibrant and creative culture while trying to encourage a non destructive form of it (dispel prankish aspects. Ironically the result of treating fans condascendingly means they don’t give a sh&t as much so to speak when they see someone acting stupid because they are marginalised
One last point, I’m sure I’m not the only one who has noticed the irony that Melbourne fans get labeled whingers, yet when the Cove finally get lumped with the same crap that fans everywhere else have to put up with, they do exactly the same thing. The only difference though is that they seem to have mates like Fink to write ESPN article for them of course whereas fans in other cities don’t quite have the same luxury. Not to mention the difference responsiveness from the FFA but generally it is good if a fans group has started to get something
July 25th 2010 @ 7:33pm
Andyroo said | July 25th 2010 @ 7:33pm | Report comment
Ironically their solution of basically choking active support and over sanitisation of the league to the point where it’s becoming boring, plastic and soulless, plus increasingly excessive penalties for minor infringements which just pushes already committed fans away (and hence discourages them from brining half interested associates along via word of mouth) will ruin the A League more surely than the occasional media beat up or flare under a banner
Professional leagues have survived in Australia without active support. A serious injury to an innocent spectator from a flare would (however unfairly) most likely be game over for the a league on a lot of levels. We could kiss good by to all the family attendance and sponsorship. The hardocre support by itself is not enough to maintain a top level competition unfortuantely.