Blue Tongue crowd a sign that NRL should expand
Roar Guru By Steve Kaless, 27 Jul 2010 Steve Kaless is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Blue Tongue Stadium, Boxing, NRL, Robbie Farah, Rugby League, Steve Matai
139 Have your say
Related coverage
Sunday offered three debates, but only one was answered resoundingly. There was, of course, the debate between two party leaders, which lacked any clear winner, and there was the debate over whether Robbie Farah dived against the Sea-Eagles. But the one debate that was ended in the most conclusive fashion was: is the Central Coast was ready for an NRL team?
Hell yeah.
In debates, it’s often useful to provide a few figures to give your argument that little bit of academic rigour to separate it from the rest of the noise, which is based on the “people I speak to” school of thought.
I’ll offer one: 20,059.
Not since Round 1 of the 2000 NRL season have so many people squeezed themselves into Blue Tongue Stadium, not for the Rugby World Cups, not for the A-League, and not for the countless other NRL matches which have looked to pick up a quick cheque from the people of the Coast and a quick beer at Club Troppo.
Just why so many fans chose to flock to this game when so many others have failed to capture the public imagination is a little bit of a mystery. But one worth investigating, especially seeing the club which took the game to Gosford could be justifiably seen as public enemy number one as they’ve spent a not inconsiderate amount of time bemoaning the part of their history which forced them to play there.
Most importantly, it was a quality fixture on a Sunday afternoon.
Many matches at Gosford seem to be the 5.30 Saturday fixture, as a club looks to cut their losses against opponents with smaller travelling fan numbers (Sharks, Storm, Warriors) or cash in on the Knights travelling fans.
So that is probably the first starting point for any future games. Make it a good one.
Fans who had travelled up from Sydney and were turned away at the gate must have thought they’d entered a parallel universe. I normally find fans have a big enough beef if they have to queue, let alone if they can’t get in.
There are obviously other compelling reasons to expand the game to the likes of Perth and Central Queensland. But as long as they can show the correct level of financial support, then you are a hard marker if you claim the Central Coast Bears have any other criteria that they need to fulfill.
But not only did the fans turn up, they were entertained with a game from the code’s top shelf.
Did Robbie Farah dive? I don’t know.
Far be it from me to judge whether a bloke is soft or not, as I take in the match from a very safe distance. Also, when we have just gone through the whole Paul Briggs farce, it’s hard not to be sceptical when the team doctors are wheeled out to talk about how crook a bloke was at halftime and teammates talk about how tough a bloke is.
At least the bookies weren’t offering a market on whether Steve Matai would knock anyone out.
The fact that I viewed the match from my lounge room also left me unable to answer the other key question in the wash up: Just how hard would it have been to get into Club Troppo and a buy a few schooners?
Recommend this story.
The Turkey 10
The Turkey 10 teams have now been selected, as Wild Turkey Bourbon's sport sponsorship kicks into the next exciting phase.
Choose which side you're going to support and get in the running to win $2,500!
Simply visit Wild Turkey Australia on Facebook for your chance to win.
Find out more.
- Explore:
- Blue Tongue Stadium, Boxing, NRL, Robbie Farah, Rugby League, Steve Matai
July 27th 2010 @ 10:57am
Willy said | July 27th 2010 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Talk of an NRL team in Perth is pure fantasy.
I love rugby league, but the sooner the NRL realise they are running a local competition in NSW and QLD – an absolutely outstanding local competition, but local nonetheless – the better off they’ll be.
End the disasterous Melbourne experiment and set up a new team on the Central Coast, and one in Central QLD and you’ll see nothing but success.
Not that it’ll happen – the willingness of the NRL to p*ss off the fans it does have in pursuit of fans it’ll never get is incredible.
July 27th 2010 @ 11:07am
The Link said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Hardly fantasy, it already happended in 1995. This is re-expansion to WA and remember the Perth bid is being driven from the ground up by local passionate RL people.
The hard reality of expansion is what revenue can the new team bring to the game? A Perth team offers more in terms of TV dollars than Central QLD, the Bears will bring back dissaffected fans that have drifted to other codes.
Central QLD yes, but not till 2018.
July 27th 2010 @ 11:15am
Willy said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:15am | Report comment
The Western Reds were tried, and they failed.
Best to leave these failed experiments where they belong – in ancient history.
The NRL is not a national competition, and never will be. They should concentrate on delivering the very best game possible for their legion of fans in NSW and QLD, and forget about trying to be something they’re not.
Surely some lessons have to be drawn from the abject farce that is Melbourne Storm.
July 27th 2010 @ 11:23am
The Link said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Reds were victims of super league, they weren’t punted cause they failed.
RL needs to think bigger than NSW and QLD and it has to in order to compete with other codes.
If you don’t grow you die.
July 27th 2010 @ 11:28am
JF said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:28am | Report comment
NSW and QLD are two of the biggest growth states!
July 27th 2010 @ 11:34am
kovana said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:34am | Report comment
“If you don’t grow you die.”
AFL and RL are still going strong even if they are not growing in other places.
July 27th 2010 @ 12:11pm
JF said | July 27th 2010 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
“If you don’t grow you die.”
How has the English Super League been cheating death for so long?
July 27th 2010 @ 11:39am
Willy said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:39am | Report comment
I disagree.
I think rugby league has tried the expansion route, and it nearly destroyed the code.
As I said, the NRL is an excellent local competition and, if they put the right resources into their existing fanbase, they’ll continue to have huge success.
July 27th 2010 @ 11:52am
M1tch said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:52am | Report comment
destroyed? mate how did that happen?
July 27th 2010 @ 1:51pm
The man said | July 27th 2010 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
I think you will find the outstanding success of the code in expanding from a Sydney comp to a national (+NZ) comp made the league too much of a prize for a greedy media empire looking for pay tv content.
It was the SL war that almost killed league – not expansion.
July 28th 2010 @ 12:39pm
hutch said | July 28th 2010 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
tell the thousands of kids that now play rugby league in melbourne that the melbourne team is a waste of time. the sport is growing in australia and in other places around the world, get with the times willy. it is not a sydney suburbun competition anymore!
July 27th 2010 @ 11:26am
JF said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Totally agree Willy. The problem being the inferiority complex that RL fans have about not being a National comp compared to the AFL. Who cares about the AFL, RL is a game of heartlands – embrace it, celebrate it, it is part of the game’s identity.
July 27th 2010 @ 11:37am
Willy said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:37am | Report comment
You’re right JF.
As I said, I’m a big NRL fan. And I really think that that nurturing existing rivalries makes for a better NRL competition that trying to plonk “franchises” down in new areas.
The prrof is in the pudding – the Melbourne Storm has been on life support for a decade, and is STILL unable to stand on its own two feet and survive.
July 27th 2010 @ 11:51am
M1tch said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Plonk franchises?
The Reds have a history of 15 years ago and of the last 3 years..the Storm is a goos example of what not to do, but we arent going to throw them away now
2 feet, our footy codes wouldnt have many teams if all we need assistance were no longer given support – heartland afl clubs and nrl clubs need help
thats just a factor of life
July 27th 2010 @ 1:43pm
The Link said | July 27th 2010 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
JF, do you even know what teams are in the ESL?
Here’s a hint, expansion teams in 2 new countries in the last 5 years.
I’m glad you blokes aren’t running the game.
July 27th 2010 @ 2:02pm
JF said | July 27th 2010 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Oh thats right, they now have a team in Wrexham, North Wales – a stones throw from Widnes in English RL heartland.
Catalan region of France has always been an RL area, this is not an expansion team.
London? A team owned by a Rugby club (4th owners?) whose home games are attended by two men and a dog.
July 27th 2010 @ 2:45pm
The Link said | July 27th 2010 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
New teams aren’t expansion? Madness…..
July 28th 2010 @ 12:03pm
The all new King of the Gorganites said | July 28th 2010 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Catlan dragons are sitting dead last. word out of the south of france is the Pergigan RU Club is about to buy the RL club.
Catalans are a spent force.
July 27th 2010 @ 7:42pm
Col the Pom said | July 27th 2010 @ 7:42pm | Report comment
Wow, talk about red-necks. — The game MUST go National. I thought that everyone in Oz recognised that by now. obviously I am wrong. again!!!
July 27th 2010 @ 11:23am
Mick said | July 27th 2010 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Too many teams already in NSW. Next NRL team should be in Central Queensland. Regional Queensland could do with a true rivalry. And a second team in Brisbane? Who mentioned that? Please the South East already gets more than its fair share. Please….
July 27th 2010 @ 12:54pm
Beowulf said | July 27th 2010 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
OK Mick, who will you put in with CQLD, if not the Central Coast? I have no probs with CQLD gaining entry eventually, but I think their bid is about 3 or 4 years away from being strong enough. Do you think the NRL would take a punt on Perth and CQLD in 2013? They may back one of them, but not both at the same time…….academic discussion really, Gallop today has as good as said the Bears are in. See article courtesy of The Link from above…..
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/nrl-to-go-fishing-on-the-central-coast/story-e6frg7mf-1225897216635
July 27th 2010 @ 1:43pm
JF said | July 27th 2010 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
What’s such a punt about CQ? The area is RL mad, no other sport gets a look in up here. The area is the heart of Queensland’s wealth, it is one of the most prosperous areas in Australia. Leagues Club ready to go, State Govt promise of a stadium if the bid succeeds. There is a myth that CQ is represented by the Cowboys – they are not, CQ people support them because they are the only QLD team outside the SE corner. North Queensland does not mean everywhere north of the Sunny Coast – the commonly held belief of those in SEQ. CQ needs their own team. The biggest issue is the split of population centres between Rocky and Mackay, bringing these two areas together will be the biggest challenge.
If the NRL are interested in REAL growth and REAL rivalries, CC and CQ must be next, anywhere else will be a contrived, soulless mess.
July 27th 2010 @ 1:57pm
The man said | July 27th 2010 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
Central coast has to be the priority.
Perth next.
Followed by a second team in Brisbane.
Central Queensland, Adeliade, PNG and Wellington will have to wait on developments in Sydney.
July 27th 2010 @ 2:03pm
Worlds Biggest said | July 27th 2010 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Agree there needs to be a team on the Central Coast however why can’t they fill it for other NRL Club games ?. Steve I do have to pick you up on other codes inability to fill the Stadium. I was there in 2001 when Australia A played the Lions and it was a full house and ditto when Ireland played Romania in the 2003 World Cup.
July 27th 2010 @ 2:16pm
Steve Kaless said | July 27th 2010 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
Worlds Biggest,
I was surprised myself but those matches were apparently not sell outs. Maybe the stats are wrong. It’s surely not that big an issue.
July 27th 2010 @ 2:26pm
kovana said | July 27th 2010 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
The stats say for all the matches at Bluetongue stadium at the rugby world cup 2003.
They were not sell outs.. VERY Close, some of the matches had 19k+, so very close to a full house.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:09pm
Steve Kaless said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Thanks for sorting that out Kovana.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:25pm
The all new King of the Gorganites said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:25pm | Report comment
IMO a sell out if achieve if it reaches 95% capacity. this is the case, because, at times, members, do not take up seats, corporatoes etc. not every single seat is going to be full, even if they are sold. some people buy tickets but never go to the game.
by that rationale the games of the RWCwere sell outs (i.e 19K plus).
i was there for Ireland v Romania, and a many irish never made it outside of the leaqgues club, even though they had tickets to the game! the USA v Japan was also a sell out.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:51pm
kovana said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
95% capacity indicates SOLD OUT. Okay then. Thanks for clearing that up.
Bluetongue Capacity = 20,119.
RWC matches 2003
IRE vs Romania= Attendance: 19,123
ARG vs Nambia = Attendance: 17,887
Japan vs USA= Attendance: 19,653
I see what you mean since this NRL match got 20’059. However it still got more then those 3 RWC cup matches.
July 28th 2010 @ 12:05pm
The all new King of the Gorganites said | July 28th 2010 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Those 3 matches were very well attended, and no tickets could be bought on game day. thats a sell out.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:37pm
M1tch said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
Who wants to see the Sharks play, not even their own supporter base..
We have given them some dud games this year
July 27th 2010 @ 7:47pm
Col the Pom said | July 27th 2010 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
If the interest in Rugby League is that great in NSW, WHY do we not see 50.000 crowds when each of the Sydney clubs play each other, Sharks versus St Gorge SHOULD attract at least that number given the close location of these clubs.
July 27th 2010 @ 7:55pm
M1tch said | July 27th 2010 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
Id agree with that, its a shame our players dont play in front of big crowds each week
July 29th 2010 @ 9:57am
Drifter said | July 29th 2010 @ 9:57am | Report comment
I dont get that either. Maybe it’s not part of the culture like other states to go to a game. I think in the last few years I’ve been to far more NRL games in Sydney than my so called NRL fan colleagues at work. And Im an AFL fan originally from SA.
Really, these kind of discussion about expansion etc. would not be needed if the fans got off their bums and actually went to the games.
July 29th 2010 @ 10:03am
Drifter said | July 29th 2010 @ 10:03am | Report comment
I do admit though, I enjoy being able to just walk up and buy a ticket on the day. Try that a Crows game at AAMI.
July 29th 2010 @ 10:31am
bilbo said | July 29th 2010 @ 10:31am | Report comment
But historically it has never been a part of League culture, especially in Sydney. Even in the sixties, where league broke the SCG records for attendances, the week to week attendances werent strong.
The other aspect is that the NRL have strategically targeted TV rights as their bread and butter – with great success as the NRL now rates highly all year round.
However, the down side to that is poor crowds – I wonder how the AFL’s crowds would be influenced if all their games were shown on TV live, if they had a monday night fixture, several fixtures in non-traditional times (in NRL the midday Sunday fixture and 5.30 saturday fixtures receive much poorer attendances than strong timeslots like Friday night and Sunday afternoon).
Also, league is a great TV game, and many people will elect to stay home and watch the game on TV if the weather is bad, if the transport is questionable etc. It is remarkable that the NRL have four of the top ten rating shows each year on TV when these games are not shown live into three states (WA, SA and Tas) and often given poor coverage in Vic.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:18pm
Worlds Biggest said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Yeah Steve not a big issue for me at all regarding both those Rugby games. What should be an issue for the NRL and expansion is why they can’t fill Blue Tongue for other Club matches taking Sunday out of the equation. Your thoughts ?
July 27th 2010 @ 3:29pm
Sam H said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
As Steve pointed out in the article many of the matches taken to Bluetongue have been Sydney clubs v interstate teams which aren’t huge drawcards.
The big clashes between the better supported NSW teams at the stadium have always done well crowd wise.
To me what this suggests is that crowds for a Central Coast team would follow the standard pattern for NSW teams: generally solid with some patchy crowds for out of state teams and some bumper crowds for the big clashes.
The difficult question for the NRL is, what additional benefit is going to be gained by sticking a team in an area which is already reasonably strong RL territory – and is this enough to forego the benefits which would be gained by favouring a city with a bigger population base or the potential for more significant growth in market share? Not an easy issue. In practice though the NRL’s task may be made easier due to the lack of a strong bid (at this stage) for new clubs in places with similarly strong claims – IMO, Brisbane and New Zealand. On the other hand the Bears have an ultra-professional bid up and running and probably represent the least risk (and least reward?) scenario for the NRL.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:52pm
Beowulf said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
Sam H, I agree there would be little additional benefit for the NRL if it was the Central Coast Oompah Loompas playing in blue and yellow – same arguement can be used against the CQLD bid. The benefit of the Central Coast Bears bid is that it brings the whole of the north shore (700,000) back into the fold of Rugby League, including all the corporate hqtrs in North Sydney, Chatswood, North Ryde. The only proviso being they are called the Bears and play in black and red. Not a hard one for the Coast to swallow, given the historical ties as a catchment area of the North Sydney Bears and the Bears attempts to move there anyway (ie building the stadium). The bid is just like the St.George Illawarra merger, but in reverse – the regional team gets 90% of what it wants!
It really is killing two birds with one stone – heals the wounds of the Super League war, hopefully re-engaging all those people (like me) lost to the NRL since 1999 and gives the Central Coast its long awaited team. I would think no one in League could begrudge that.
July 27th 2010 @ 4:03pm
Sam H said | July 27th 2010 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
Beowulf – agree on the additional benefit of bringing back the Bears. Obviously that is one of the factors that goes into the equation.
Equally you could note that a Gosford team won’t give the NRL a couple of things it does want (increased national exposure, another option for live Qld team telecasts, another TV timeslot), and does give the NRL one of the things it already has plenty of – NSW teams with realistic hopes of averaging in the mid to high teens, crowds wise.
‘m not coming down on one side or the other – I think that on the merits there are very pressing claims from a number of places, Gosford included. Personally, I’d love to see the Bears running around again.
For anyone interested we’re currently pulling together a consolidated piece on the Bears bid at http://www.footyfootyfooty.com – check back later this week or early next week and see what you think.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:41pm
Worlds Biggest said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
or a likely scenario would be that most CC league fans already support an NRL team therefore have no real interest in going to Blue Tongue to watch another team play unless of course there own team is playing. Will they get behind the relocated Bears or should they have there own team ?.
July 27th 2010 @ 3:57pm
Beowulf said | July 27th 2010 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
They are NRL fanatics – half will be Bears fans old and new, half initially will just go to see NRL games…in time, this group will gradually become Bears fans or at least dual fans. As the youngsters grow up with the Bears established in their home town, 99% will be Bears fans, so the long term future is very rosy.
July 27th 2010 @ 4:03pm
Mick said | July 27th 2010 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
NSW supporters seem to be blinsided. You already have enough teams in your state. Why don’t you relocate a few of the stuggling Sydney sides up to the Central Coast. Far less hassle then starting up a new franchise from scratch. Cental QLD has to be the prority. This is where the future of Rugby League is, not bloody NSW!
July 27th 2010 @ 4:41pm
Jay said | July 27th 2010 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
equally, why dont we relocate a struggling sydney club to central queensland? how would you feel about that suggestion?
July 27th 2010 @ 5:59pm
Beowulf said | July 27th 2010 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
No probs if you get CQLD to agree to it and the Sydney club! Throw enough cash and Manly or Cronulla may jump, but I doubt they’ll do it unless in dire straits…..
July 27th 2010 @ 7:26pm
Beowulf said | July 27th 2010 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
Further to this Jay, D.Gallop said the other day he is opposed to relocations to areas strong in League – he wants to see local bids develop via grassroots support – as in the CC Bears, Perth and CQLD bids. He also said there is no pecking order of the bidders – ie whoever has the best bid/s will get in. That’s why most are predicting CC Bears and Perth in the next round….
July 28th 2010 @ 11:36am
Jay said | July 28th 2010 @ 11:36am | Report comment
Perth is strong in league?
I wouldnt mind the reds being back, but we need to support expansion teams out of NSW, QLD with a proper approach like what the AFL is doing with GWS and GC Suns… you cant just leave these team to fend for themselves. they need better grants, better promoiton allowances and more investment in grassroots. if the next tv deal allows it, then im all for it.
July 27th 2010 @ 5:57pm
Beowulf said | July 27th 2010 @ 5:57pm | Report comment
The future or league is TV revenue!
There are no ready bids in QLD (CQLD doesn’t even have a nickname or jersey, let alone a stadium or corporate support). Having said that, I agree there needs to be 2 more teams in QLD within the next 6 years – CQLD and another in SEQ. Just need to get off your backsides and put tiogether a bid as strong and developed as the Bears – it takes about 5 years, but can be done by about 2016.
After the Bears, all expansions will be out of NSW, so I wouldn’t get too worked up! 2 from QLD, 1 Perth, 1 NZ, 1 PNG and 1 ADL. Natural attrition will probably mean 1 or 2 weaker Sydney clubs will relocate or perish. Even today there was talk of Manly being unable to upgrade Brookvale – maybe the Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles and Adelaide Sharks in 10 years???
July 27th 2010 @ 7:39pm
Beowulf said | July 27th 2010 @ 7:39pm | Report comment
A bastardisation called the Northern Eagles was foisted on the Central Coast 10 years ago – it was an unmitigated disaster. The Bears are a unique case, but other than them, no struggling Sydney team would be welcome on the Coast and the NRL has blocked teams going there – a not so subtle hint perhaps that its been earmarked for the CC Bears. The League is trying to bring back northern Sydney into NRL and appease football starved Central Coast fans.
With CQLD, the problems are many – small dispersed population, lack of commercial support (mining companies won’t be interested in sponsoring a domestic competition – their markets are China and India), no stadium, no jersey, no financial members, no nickname and your major supporters were Kevin Rudd and Anna Bligh. I think they can all be overcome in time as the region grows its population, but It’ll take a few years of hard work. Build the stadium and play some NRL games there and if there is support, then entry will happen. Exactly the path followed by the CC & Perth.
July 27th 2010 @ 5:08pm
Col the bear said | July 27th 2010 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
Those big black bears are back on the road again .back on the road again .back on the road again.Those big black bears are back on the road again we’ve had a victory now.we’ve had a victory now.oh those Big Black Bears are back on theroad again and Weve had a victory now. All together now one more time. Ok Im just practicing.still remember the tune
July 27th 2010 @ 5:14pm
Col the bear said | July 27th 2010 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
Getting there