Wallabies loss was one frustrating game!
Roar Guru By Frank O'Keeffe, 1 Aug 2010 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
231 Have your say
I just came back from the Melbourne Bledisloe Cup Test between Australia and New Zealand three hours ago. How am I feeling at 12:35am in the morning? Well I’m hurting big time! BIG TIME!
I was looking forward to this game for months and to get such a result hurts. Australia likely won’t regain the Bledisloe Cup this year, and it’s been many painful years.
I went to the game with a Swedish friend of mine, who to his credit seemed to grasp the fundamentals of the game, despite this being his first live game.
A few months ago, I showed him the Sydney Test from the 2000 Blesidloe Cup series on YouTube (it’s shown there in its entirety). He seemed to enjoy the game and all the quick scoring, but I warned him, “Don’t expect such scoring in the game we go to. There aren’t many games that have such quick tries and weird scores.”
Boy was I wrong!
A few minutes in when Carter had his kick charged down, I couldn’t believe Australia’s luck. Such a lucky score against the All Blacks!
I had such a good feeling after that moment.
I also sat next to a South African man who has lived in Australia since 1986 and noted to him, “Nass Botha wouldn’t have his kick charged down.” He said, “No it would be down our end of the ground, and if a flanker did charge up to him quickly, he’d tap him on the shoulder as he ran by… didn’t like to tackle though.”
Shortly after Australia returned the favour and I couldn’t believe the game I was watching.
There were two areas of main concern from my standpoint in the crowd. Firstly, Australia were having trouble re-gathering kick-offs, and if Rod MacQueen were Australian coach he’d have torn his hair out watching this game. It was one of his things: you win every kick-off!
The second thing was the Wallabies were falling off their tackles, although I do appreciate it’s difficult to bring Brad Thorn down.
McCaw’s try came from a great tactical kick from Carter, similar to how the All Blacks won the Sydney Test last year, only then it was with a penalty.
With the exception of Berrick Barnes, I don’t think many Australian players would think to make a clever weighted kick like that.
I still don’t know how the ball squirted out from the side of the ruck as I didn’t have the advantage of watching it on TV with replays. But it did and McCaw scored.
It seemed like the referee, Joubert, was having a bit of an influence near the end of the second half, and it started killing the game for me.
At halftime, I didn’t know what to make of the game. My astute Swedish friend asked me, “Are the All Blacks playing well or have they just been fortunate?” He knew enough of rugby to ask me this question. He saw how much possession Australia had, and reminded me Australia had the ball more than New Zealand.
I honestly didn’t know the answer. I’m at a total loss to explain how the game went New Zealand’s way so much.
The only one thing that stood-out to me was Australia’s ineptness at the kick-off, which actually hurt the side tremendously.
The All Blacks were certainly playing well, but they were scoring tries quicker than I’ve ever seen them score, in a game where Australia seemed to be playing well? It made no sense and still makes no sense to me.
The things I’ve come to associate with the Wallabies when they’re losing just weren’t there.
For example, I’m not a fan of Matt Giteau’s kicking in general play. And last year he ran laterally many times to his detriment.
Last night he seemed fine to me. It’s as if the Wallabies were taking off where they left against South Africa by keeping the ball in hand. He made a good break early on in the game. He missed a few kicks he should have got, but it wasn’t a matter of win or lose. He played well, I felt.
There was one period just after the halftime break when the Wallabies tried going sideways before going forwards. Aside from that they struck me as actually playing quite well.
Before the game I was wondering where Australia would score their tries, and to their credit they scored two tries after plenty of effort. It was satisfying that they didn’t give up after they were well and truly beaten, unlike last year in the 3rd Bledisloe Cup game.
I don’t know how much Drew Mitchell being red-carded cost Australia, but it seemed to me like two tries were scored by stretching the Wallabies from one end to the other. My South Africa acquaintance noted, “Look how they’re using the width of the field.”
David Pocock and Rocky Elsom stood out the most for me out of the Wallabies, a bit like last week. Pocock looks like a mountain over ball, and just as I can appreciate how hard it is to bring Brad Thorn down, so too can I appreciate how hard it is to move Pocock.
I left the game feeling absolutely terrible and aghast at how Australia lost that game by such a huge margin.
Giteau hardly kicked, Genia seemed to play well and got good ball, Pocock was excellent, Rocky made some yards, Ashley-Cooper showed guts… what was missing? Why weren’t Australia competitive?
Australia haven’t won in New Zealand since around 2001 I think. So it’s unlikely Australia will win the Bledisloe Cup. They haven’t held the Cup since 2002. As a fan I’m hurting.
What’s worse is I think Australia had a chance to win some silverware in 2008/09. In 2008 Australia were so close to winning the Tri Nations in Brisbane, but they fell away for 15 minutes and New Zealand won.
In 2009, I did not rate the All Blacks a great side. Players like Mils were out of form, and Stephen Donald seemed a liability at five-eighth. The All Blacks were pretty below their par against South Africa last year, and if I can get away with saying this: they were below their best against Australia. It’s just that Australia were worse.
This year the All Blacks are starting to look good again, and for once they might actually be timing things right for the World Cup.
In five of the Wallabies last eight games against New Zealand Australia have led at halftime. Australia fell away for many reasons.
I just don’t know what to make of that. It fees like they should have won at least one Test.
If I was Robbie Deans I’d ask two questions of his players:
1. What do you think we need to do to win the Bledisloe Cup, and I don’t want to hear anything that hasn’t worked in the last two/three years?
2. What do we need to do to do it?
The thing about Bob Dwyer’s World Cup Wallabies is Dwyer challenged his players to be the best players in their position. By his estimation you needed about five players who’d make a World XV.
If New Zealand have a better second row in Brad Thorn, what makes him better? Why aren’t you like him? What aren’t you doing to reach that standard? If you’re just hoping to contribute to the game, go away, you have to be the best. That’s the Dwyer way.
I don’t get that sense with these Wallabies, which is perhaps why Dwyer said a couple of months ago that Australia can’t win the World Cup, because they have no players who’d make a World XV.
Look I’ll stop there. It’s now 1:17am in the morning.
That was one incredibly frustrating game and I am one incredibly frustrated fan!
Recommend this story.
The Turkey 10
The Turkey 10 teams have now been selected, as Wild Turkey Bourbon's sport sponsorship kicks into the next exciting phase.
Choose which side you're going to support and get in the running to win $2,500!
Simply visit Wild Turkey Australia on Facebook for your chance to win.
Find out more.
- Explore:
- Bledisloe Cup, new zealand all blacks, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies
August 1st 2010 @ 8:01am
mickh said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Wow, what a team this All Black side is.
As a very grumpy Aussie this morning I can’t let it go without saying that it is awesome watching this team play the rugby it is playing. It is a painful joy to watch.
Well done.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:13am
katzilla said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:13am | Report comment
The most telling moment for me was Janes try, and Genias attempt to tackle him.
It was so soft……………..Jane didn’t step him, didn’t fend him, he just stopped running and Genia fell over.
Would Gregan have let that try in? Highly unlikely.
Pocock was excellent in a well beaten forward pack, it must be said.
I wish the Bledisloe would go back to 3 games. I can’t see the Wallabies beating us 3 times in one year.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:19am
CraigB said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Great win by NZ – They are a team you just have to admire even as they are dishing up a hiding against your team. I just love the way they back themselves in all areas. JAnes kick to Mils… WTF!!!
On a side not has ANYONE seen Mitchell first yellow card offense?
August 1st 2010 @ 8:30am
Ben S said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Mitchell was yellow carded for shouldering McCaw off the ball. It was pretty irrelevant but unecessary, much like the ball throwing.
August 1st 2010 @ 9:02am
mw said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:02am | Report comment
It was shown later on Fox. Mitchell pushes Richie over with his hands but could be mistaken for a shoulder charge. It was late but doubtfully dangerous.
August 1st 2010 @ 3:16pm
bennalong said | August 1st 2010 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
It was not a penalisable offence
It was a shove , a tad late, but the ten minutes should be reviewed
Now we have videos, let’s go back to touchies.
These ASSISTENT REFS want to be part of the show.
AXE THEM
August 1st 2010 @ 8:20pm
Joh4Canberra said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:20pm | Report comment
A video of Mitchell’s first yellow card offence will probably be put put up on rugbydump.com pretty soon. If not then I suggest you request that site to post it (if you’re not aware they do take requests).
I have no qualms whatsoever with Mitchell’s second yellow card. But he should never have got the first one. That said, every player who is already on one yellow card should know that a second yellow will earn them a red AND that yellow cards are not just handed out for dangerous play but also for deliberate infringements and “professional fouls”.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:35pm
bennalong said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
You sound like a school teacher!
The Red card ruined a large percentage of the game. For what? Who benefited?
I’ve never seen a Red issued on such a minor issue, have you?
Are you happy with the precedent?
If this sort of thing becomes part of Rugby, I won’t be continuing my lifelong association
August 1st 2010 @ 9:06pm
ohtani's jacket said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
I don’t think that Mitchell should’ve been sent off but the Wallabies suffered from their own stupidity. What side points out the ref a penalisable offence then commits it two or three times in a row after the opposition has stopped doing it? The Wallabies deserved some kind of Darwin award for that.
August 1st 2010 @ 9:09pm
Peter K said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:09pm | Report comment
yep they were very stupid. Totally inept display except for Pocock and AAC.
August 2nd 2010 @ 5:11am
Joh4Canberra said | August 2nd 2010 @ 5:11am | Report comment
And in return I could say that you sound like someone who doesn’t understand the laws of the game.
Do I like the fact that Mitchell was sent off? No. Do I think it’s fair that a player who commits a bit of a push that hardly even warrants a penalty let alone a yellow card and then commits the professional foul of preventing a quick throw-in has to spend 50 minutes on the side-line when players who engage in dangerous play such as eye gouging often go completely undetected? No. Do I think having 15 on 14 for a large chunk of the game is what people want to see? No.
But all of that is beside the point. Under Law 10.5(b) “A player who has been cautioned and temporarily suspended who then commits a second cautionable offence within the Foul Play Law must be sent-off”. Note the word “must”. Translated into plain English that reads as “two yellow cards = a red card, end of story”. The referee doesn’t have any discretion on whether to send off a player in these circumstances. The laws of the game mandate it and players should know this. That was my point.
The only discretion the referee has is in judging whether each individual offence is itself worthy of a yellow (or red) card. And each decision has to be made on its merits. The referee can’t go soft on what would otherwise be a yellow card offence because the player has already been yellow-carded in the match (so as to avoid the mandatory send-off under Law 10.5(b)). The laws of the game simply do not give referees that kind of discretion.
So even if the first yellow was a mistake (which I think it was) once it’s been given, if a player commits a second yellow card offence then the referee is left with no choice under the laws of the game other than to send him off. End of story. Rough justice? Yes. But rough justice that is mandated by the laws of the game.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:30am
BennO said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Nice post Frank. A few things spring to mind.
Genia didn’t play well, he was off the pace in defence. He tried to dart out at the wrong times. In fact it’s true the aussies didn’t give up, but the three playmakers (9, 10 and 12) played more like individuals having a go on their own as the game went on. Burgess sparked some more team driven forward play when he came on I felt. Surprised me.
As for the Dwyer way, I’ve heard Deans say the same thing. When he arrived the culture was such that the players wanted to be the best in Australia. He said in NZ the players want to be the best in the world and his cleanout of the old guard was a fair bit of changing that attitude.
As for the ball spilling out for McCaw’s try, it looked like a case of an All Black playing the ball off the ground, at least the single replay 7 played seemed to show that. But full marks to the ABs for being on the ball all the time.
I thikn the Aussies just looked flat, overawed and spent from early on in the game. They were lazy in defence so the ABs pretty much always crossed the advantage line. The opposite was true when we had the ball.
I never like an easy try at the begining of a game. If you earn a try early that’s ok, but a lucky one gives you a false sense of where you sit in the game. I felt that happened last night.
I would like to know, the last time the Wallabies played well 2 games in a row. I can’t think of any time in the last 8 years. Especially in the TN and Bledisloe.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:39am
Sam Taulelei said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Deans debut season in 2008 saw the Wallabies beat SA and NZ in consecutive weeks.
August 1st 2010 @ 10:16am
katzilla said | August 1st 2010 @ 10:16am | Report comment
McCaws try came from a Rok turnover. He pulled the ball from underneath AAC, but was on his feet.
Looked dodgy because he pulled underneath the lying player rather then standing over and pulling it up.
I guess if a penalty was to be given it would have been for not allowing AAC to place the ball.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:32am
zhenry said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Enjoyed you article. I am an AB fan but in the second half I thought the WAL’s played very well; together as a unit they controlled the ball in a tidy fashion and were patient and I thought better than the AB pack. All with 14 players. I guess when you watch your own team you can emphasis the negatives. The AB’s made some appalling passes, not even watching where they were throwing them; Weepu’s was a howler. Nonu played poorly, took wrong options and is starting to crash and bang again. Cowan has to stop kicking, period; one of them was responsible for a sustained WAL attack, ”I thought the WAL’s defence was often very good, and seemed to pounce on back play far better than the AB’s. They seemed to have more numbers.
I have to say I really wanted the AB’s to win and that was promted by the Fitzsomons comment: ‘It’s simple. We’re Australians. They’re Kiwis. We’re better than they are!’ Some comments relating to that statement were: You’ve gota love Fitzy. Well I am a hybrid NZ/AU and I was insensed by that comment and will comment further at later date.
August 1st 2010 @ 10:19am
katzilla said | August 1st 2010 @ 10:19am | Report comment
“It’s simple. We’re Australians. They’re Kiwis.”
Haha, I love Fitzsimmons. Everyone knows hes just having a lend.
Hes good value and not one eyed at all. He gives credit where credits due, no doubt he will in next weekends TFF
August 1st 2010 @ 11:00am
Trevor DeAngelo said | August 1st 2010 @ 11:00am | Report comment
zhenry, Fitzy was having a joke as he always does. It’s his tongue and cheek humor. No need to take it seriously (and yes I am a kiwi). I agree with you about the Aussies, thought they played an awesome game in the second half especially through their forwards who looked fantastic. But come on – obviously you weren’t watching the same All blacks game that the rest of the world was watching. Nonu attracted many defenders and opened up holes around himself. He had some beautifully weighted passes. And Cowan had a VERY solid game. You were right about some poor passes later in the game – at this stage the Allblacks certainly looked to have backed off and even seemed to be mucking around laughing with no look passes and 50 / 50s which is not typical for the ABs who like to keep the foot to the floor when then have the competition against the ropes. But who can blame them after that performance. Zhenry I would hate to see what the ABs would have to do to please you.
August 1st 2010 @ 1:39pm
zhenry said | August 1st 2010 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
There was a lot of good AB stuff last night but a lot that wasn’t.
I know the Fitz humor the satire what ever and it’s all a joke. I am thoroughly familiar with Australian culture but I don’t buy into; put the knife in then defuse it with ‘it was only a joke.’ What your beloved Fitz is touching upon is ‘core Australian national psyche.’ I’ve had personal experience of that destructive side and many Australians (and who knows, even Fitz) actually believe the basic script of it. I‘ve touched on it before on this blog, it’s a very dangerous dynamic and goes beyond rivalry and does not compare with the reverse situation.
August 1st 2010 @ 3:16pm
katzilla said | August 1st 2010 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Wow I aint touching that one with a 10 foot pole.
August 1st 2010 @ 6:36pm
Pete said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:36pm | Report comment
zhenry, I have no idea what universe you live in. Australians actually do like Kiwis (more so than any other nation). This was very evident during the Soccer WC when we cheered for the All Whites.
August 2nd 2010 @ 9:21am
PastHisBest said | August 2nd 2010 @ 9:21am | Report comment
And we keep marrying your women, so at least half of you aren’t bad…
August 1st 2010 @ 8:36pm
bennalong said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
What’s a hybrid NZ/AU?
August 2nd 2010 @ 9:22am
PastHisBest said | August 2nd 2010 @ 9:22am | Report comment
A Toyota Ki-Roo?
August 2nd 2010 @ 5:44pm
katzilla said | August 2nd 2010 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
Black Commodore
August 1st 2010 @ 8:37am
Don't go over board said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Pocock did have a good game but lets now stop the press from comparing him to McCaw at whatever age level. McCaw is the master and showed that size of biceps and stealing ball at the breakdown is only one part of the game but not the entire game. Pocock is too one dimensinal and does well when run at but little else. Praise to him for what he does well. Cannot help but admire McCaw. He is modest and a true lead by example type player. We need players like him and it was evident that muscles doesn’t really convert to a win. The Wallabies showed that they could play with intensity but I still think the Kiwis were playing with us.
Please no more talk of young guns, building to WC, singling out players as greats, AB will chock at WC (as if that matters). The ABs show why they are consistently the best and anyone who denies that are idiots. They deserve our respect.
August 1st 2010 @ 9:51am
Rockin Rod said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment
DGOB, how many turnovers did Richie get last night? I think the man of the match did wear the 7 jersey last night , but a gold jersey. Pocock was outstanding again on a losing side. Must be way in front on the John Eales medal now
August 1st 2010 @ 9:59am
kovana said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Agree with you on that. Pocock was better then McCaw this Night. Too bad the rest of the pack were far behind the AB’s forward pack.
Brown, Brown, Brown.. Was completely thrown like a rag doll by both Jane and Kaino.
August 1st 2010 @ 12:53pm
Sylvester said | August 1st 2010 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
It’s not all about turnovers. Pocock did secure four or five, but usually by being second man to the tackle. It’s effective, but not too difficult to stand over a tackled player and rip the ball.
McCaw led the tackle count for both sides, about 8 or 9 more than Pocock, and still managed to feature around the park as well.
August 1st 2010 @ 4:01pm
Peter K said | August 1st 2010 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Sylvester – Then Pocock must of been better. Pocock had the most tackles 23, McCaw had 21.
August 1st 2010 @ 4:24pm
Jerry said | August 1st 2010 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
Not according to any stats I’ve seen. Scrum.com says McCaw had 23, Pocock had 15.
August 1st 2010 @ 5:54pm
Peter K said | August 1st 2010 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
rugbystats.com.au and rugbyheaven stats have Pocock 23 and McCaw 21
August 1st 2010 @ 6:02pm
Jerry said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
To be honest, I don’t really pay any attention to those sorts of stats and that disparity is why. It seems pretty subjective as to what constitutes a player making a tackle.
I think both were very good, Pocock was better at turnovers but McCaw was better all round.
August 1st 2010 @ 10:22am
katzilla said | August 1st 2010 @ 10:22am | Report comment
As a Fetcher I’d put Pocock as being infront of McCaw at present, but that could also be related to the fact that McCaw has moved his game away from the pure fetcher role. Theres no doubt Pocock was titanic in a beaten pack, but as for best 7 in the world? McCaws still the master.
August 1st 2010 @ 11:10pm
MattyP said | August 1st 2010 @ 11:10pm | Report comment
No doubt Richie did some fine clearing out at rucks from the wrong side…
August 1st 2010 @ 8:42am
Harry said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Rickety knees couldn’t have said better my self!!!!!
August 1st 2010 @ 8:44am
sheek said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:44am | Report comment
I’m pleased that so far I haven’t heard – “sack the coach” – on this thread. No doubt when the rabble get onboard from Monday onwards, we’ll get a lot of that shallow drivel.
For what it’s worth, we don’t have the cattle. And our structures are not developing the kind of players we require for current, professional rugby. Why is it our players lack the deep commitment & relentless intensity of our All Blacks rivals?????
Their players have had their high skills & high consistency forged over many years of brutally tough competition.
Don’t feel sorry for Drew Mitchell, feel sorry for Richard Brown. Our Wallaby eightman was repeatedly tossed aside like a rag doll. He epitomised the difference in line speed & breakdown strength between the two teams.
‘
The Sun-Herald back page banner line was spot-on – Boys 28 Men 49′.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:54am
Ben S said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:54am | Report comment
sheek, Australia has four (and soon to be five) teams in what Australians like to claim is the best domestic competition in the world. This Australian side has played against their NZ rivals for years. This Australian side had 35 caps per man (on average), and a spine of Moore, Sharpe, Genia, Giteau, Barnes and AAC. How can they be so bossed by a team which has shown such great improvement since last season? If NZ can improve then it stands to reason that the Australian side has the capacity for progress.
You’re ignoring the obvious: Brown didn’t have to be selected at 8. Just like the re-starts didn’t have to be so woeful. It isn’t all the players and it isn’t all ‘domestic structure, or lack thereof. Why has there been no tangible progress since Deans and his panel took over? Henry took his side from last year and re-built in internally. Last year they looked lost and aimless, this year they look slick, organised and well coached. Therein lies the difference.
August 1st 2010 @ 9:47am
Ingoahou said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Australians need to stop looking at S14/15 as their domestic competition. South Africans and Kiwis do not see this competition as domestic at all, both countries have very vibrant competitive and truly domestic competitions. This has given and gives both countries a significant advantage in blooding new talent and perfecting skill levels in a very parochial and competitive environment.
Australian rugby can be summed up to me in the reaction of Mitchell agfter his charge down try, it was totally over the top and a little arrogant. The game had just started and they / he had hardly done anything special but score a fortuitous try.
It’s hard to pick a standout in the Wallabies but Pocock was again a man on a mission unfortunately for him it was an independant mission. AAC had a strong game and to me was next best out of a Wallabie side that looked like possums in headlights for much of the match.
Elsom would have to be the most over rated player in the entire Wallby team, since coming home from a good season up north he has been well off the pace in Southern Hemispher rugby.
Is the mantra of captaincy limiting his abilities, is it too much pressure on the man and therefore impacting his game?
That being said I think the Wallabies will get a win this year over hte ABs but to be honest I do think it will come over a team that is blooding new players or giving the likes of Cruden, Dagg, Vito, Whitelock and possibly Alby Mathewson starts while senior and entrenched ABs take a well deserved break or warm the pine.
A win in Christchurch will more than justify this as the 3N and Bledisloe will be in the bag.
August 1st 2010 @ 6:35pm
bennalong said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:35pm | Report comment
Fantastic try! Not a particularly unusual display considering!
August 1st 2010 @ 7:04pm
Richierich said | August 1st 2010 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
Maybe a bit more energy should go into playing the game because when you look back now Mitchell looks like a complete tool, a lucky try and over exagerated celebration a yellow card not long after followed by a red and his team on the end of a serious whooping.
August 1st 2010 @ 8:38pm
bennalong said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:38pm | Report comment
You’re the tool.
What did he do that warranted reducing his team to 14?
August 1st 2010 @ 9:01pm
Peter K said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:01pm | Report comment
one of the most ungracious winnners I have seen for a long is johhny come latley richierich!
August 2nd 2010 @ 6:30am
Lee said | August 2nd 2010 @ 6:30am | Report comment
He got 2 yellows:
1 for doing something stupid to a player after the ball had been passed away. As many people said on this website after Roussouws yellow against the ABS, don’t put yourself in the position where the ref can bin you, especially when it appears as though the IRB has decided to crack down on off the ball incidences.
And teh 2nd for doing something unbelievably stupid after the ref had warned both sides that he was prepared to go to his pocket for people slowing down the game.
Lets also remember the ENTIRE reason the ref was that harsh on things like throwing away the ball was because Elsom made a huge deal out of it.
August 2nd 2010 @ 1:48pm
Richierich said | August 2nd 2010 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
What a sour loser you both are Peter and Bennalong you have both made ridiculous comments and because you have no mature comeback you resort to childish taunts.
The fact remains you can not accept what happened and instead of looking in the mirror so to speak you are looking at a target to vent your anger elsewhere.
August 2nd 2010 @ 1:50pm
Richierich said | August 2nd 2010 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Hold back Lee some posters do not like the truth, wait you might even be accused of being a All Black supporter
August 1st 2010 @ 10:22am
Even looser said | August 1st 2010 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Ben S – Funnily enough I agree with both you & Sheek.
IMHO the All Blacks are simply more skillful learned from the school of hard knocks of the NZ systems that provides Henry with a vast array of players from which to select. Players from the school of hard knocks will more than likely stand-up when required.
Expressed another way, it’s far easier to become a Wallaby than to become an All Black.
Having said that, I agree that regardless of who you are or what system you developed under, you should make your tackles, you should catch the ball, you should kick the ball into touch when that’s required, you should never back chat the Ref, you should pass on what the Ref warned to ALL players. It’s pretty basic stuff.
Last night the Wallabies gave the All Blacks easy yards from making fundamental errors that players at this level should never, ever – in a million years – make.
August 1st 2010 @ 10:38am
Ben S said | August 1st 2010 @ 10:38am | Report comment
EL, I was perusing a list of the players that Henry had capped/utilised the other day, and in light of that I’d have to say that it may be harder to become an All Black than it is a Wallaby, but it is certainly much, much harder to remain an All Black than it is a Wallaby. Look at Adam Thomson, he was slowly growing into a Test player, had a very good Super season, played one pre-3N Test and then was binned. Henry is not the sentimental type. The list of players who had fleeting appearances during his tenure is vast.
Deans, conversely, and despite his media myth, is actually quite reluctant to proceed with change. No matter what Australians say about lack of depth they have 4 Super sides, and therefore roughly 8 players per position to choose from. Did Tom Donnelly ever look anything more than a good, consistent Super lock before Henry gave him his chance? There is a fine line between nepotism (of sorts) and persevering with players, and in this case I think he needs to make some changes and try some alternatives. The fact of the matter is that there is always an alternative, it just takes good coaching to find it.
On another note, I definitely think the Australian players have the skills but suffer from poor coaching at Super level and also Test level. The Brumbies and Waratahs really were quite underwhelming last season. Take Burgess’s passing as a case in point. Why had it not been remedied by Hickey or one of his coaches?
August 1st 2010 @ 11:16am
Justin said | August 1st 2010 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Great post.
August 1st 2010 @ 12:01pm
Even looser said | August 1st 2010 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Indeed it is a good post.
I also want to speak against myself by pointing out that the Wallaby team of yesteryear has experienced some wonderful past glories. And that was using the same Rugby structures (school, club, Shute etc, Provincial).
So what’s changed? Why do we look like we’re not within cooee with basic skill, brains & tactics of where we need to be?
By the way hats off to the boys for never tossing in the towel last night. No doubt many lessons were learnt.
August 1st 2010 @ 12:47pm
Harry said | August 1st 2010 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
100% AGREE. Players like Brown are persisted with despite the evidence, again and again, they aren’t good enough at the top level. Yet for the kiwis, players like Thompson can’t get a run. Was watchignthe telly yesterday afternoon, and they and a Sydney club game on ABC and an NPC game (or whatever its called now, the Kiwi domestic comp) and the difference in quality and intensity was stark. In Southern v Randwick, we had Chisolm and Douglas playing, both potentially test locks, indeed one has played 50 tests. Yet both were nothing special. Yet in the other far harder game, Thompson was playing well but was being properly tested. Guess who would be better placed for a test match callup? Not the Aussie pair …
August 1st 2010 @ 3:18pm
katzilla said | August 1st 2010 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
KO you need to change your name to Ben S – MythBuster
August 1st 2010 @ 8:50pm
Ben S said | August 1st 2010 @ 8:50pm | Report comment
I said I did on varuous threads, katz. Sorry, it’s a big site. I didn’t mean to keep you out of the loop
August 1st 2010 @ 7:18pm
mother teresa said | August 1st 2010 @ 7:18pm | Report comment
YEP the reds seem more on to it with their coaching panel
August 1st 2010 @ 11:37am
sheek said | August 1st 2010 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Ben S,
Of course Brown didn’t have to be selected at 8 – there were other options which will now come into play. I also think it was you who suggested move Elsom to lock. Now I agree totally. Elsom doesn’t have the speed for a backrower anymore.
Why can’t an already experienced Wallabies improve? Short answer – because they don’t have to!
If Richie McCaw dropped off even just a little from his exceptionally high standards, there would be someone ready to replace him. Okay, maybe Mccaw’s not the best example, but the ABs realise if they drop their intensity, there is usually someone just as good but younger, ready to replace them.
On the other hand, leading Wallabies can drop off in intensity & form, & still hold their place, because potential replacements are thin on the ground.
Being a professional rugby player in Australia is a good gig. They’re struggling to fill the quotas of 5 provincial teams, & near enough is usually good enough. Doesn’t provide much incentive to be any better…..
August 1st 2010 @ 9:15pm
Ben S said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:15pm | Report comment
sheek, there is always an alternative. Australia had one side finish in the top 4 of the Super 14. So did NZ. Australia had, in total, 3 sides finish in the top 7. NZ had 2. I can only repeat what I have said previously about Tom Donnelly. He was a good Super lock, a reliable Super lock, but look how he has taken to Test rugby. Take Courtney Lawes as another example. He has had barely a full season of Aviva Premiership rugby under his belt. You have to take a punt on people, and to date Deans has only been willing to do that when players are injured. The incentive to improve is there if your place in the team is not guranteed, and the man who selects the side is Robbie.
August 1st 2010 @ 10:06am
Rockin Rod said | August 1st 2010 @ 10:06am | Report comment
So true Sheek, Brown was getting tossed around but at least he didnt stop having a RHG. If only he could swap bodiues with Mumm who doesnt use his size
August 1st 2010 @ 10:34am
Justin said | August 1st 2010 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Sheek – you say its shallow drivel to blame the coach. Could it not be shallow drivel to keep saying we havent got the cattle and system?
You say feel sorry for Brown? He shouldnt be there, Deans cant pick his own a$$! Never has had the right team. We all know Brown isnt up to it, too small etc yet his replacement on the bench is guess what? Another small backrower in Hodgson. Whats the point of that? Please tell me why a young tough bastard like McCalman isnt getting a chance? Why is AAC not at 13? Horne has done little, we are leaking points like never before, Mumm is bitter, Maafuwent back to standard. Why isnt Higginbotham getting a run????
This is stuff we all know but the coach is ignoring! This side can be EASILY improved yet isnt being because Dumb a$$ Deans gives people 50 chances (Burgess anyone) when there ARE better players waiting in line.
August 1st 2010 @ 12:58pm
darwin stubby said | August 1st 2010 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
at the very least the ARU need to re-introduce the Aust A programme
August 1st 2010 @ 4:56pm
sheek said | August 1st 2010 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
Yeah Justin,
Let’s sack the coach, but make sure we have another half-a-dozen lined up behind him. Because Deans’ replacement, & the replacement after him will all strike the same problem – essentially lack of quality cattle.
You don’t think Deans hasn’t considered other selections? He probably thinks he’s damned either way! So the team could be EASILY improving, you say? Well, if you know the magic formula, put your name up there son…..
Truth be told, with occasional exceptions – 1980, 1984-86, 1991-94, 1998-2002 – that’s been our history. Why our players lack the physicality of the ABs, & how to fix it is open to debate.
The Sun-Herald banner said it all – ‘Boys 28 Men 49′.
August 1st 2010 @ 5:50pm
Justin said | August 1st 2010 @ 5:50pm | Report comment
Coaching according to Ewen McKenzie is at least 80 selection.
Being a good coach and selector do not necessarily go hand in hand.
Thanks for the advice “Dad”, couldn’t do much worse by the way
August 1st 2010 @ 7:24pm
mother teresa said | August 1st 2010 @ 7:24pm | Report comment
JUSTIN,youre right of course but add the referees to the equation mate.its not deans its the bad refs,not enough cattle and the system.
you see justin its all changed since wallies won their world cups and runner up 2003. its not fair on deans.
August 1st 2010 @ 6:39pm
bennalong said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
Sorry Sheik,
You should FEEL sorry for Drew Mitchell………What the hell did he do to result in a RED card.?
August 1st 2010 @ 6:42pm
Jerry said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
Ignored the ref’s clear statement that he was going to go to cards if people continued to illegally prevent quick throw ins/taps?
August 1st 2010 @ 6:46pm
Pete said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:46pm | Report comment
He was off the field the first time when the ref gave the warning…
August 1st 2010 @ 6:55pm
Jerry said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Then Elsom is a terrible captain.
August 1st 2010 @ 9:13am
mw said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:13am | Report comment
It is definitely very hard for Wallaby fans to have our team play like this and definitely not satisfactory to blame injuries and suspensions but the AllBlacks are probably close to their best side and I don’t think anyone would leave out players like Horwill, Alexander, TPN, Palu, Higginbottom, Cooper, Digby from a best Wallabies 22. We have room to improve. But can the All Blacks get any better and are they peaking too early for next years world cup?
August 1st 2010 @ 11:27am
kiwi21 said | August 1st 2010 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Yes the Australia will be better when the likes of cooper co return, but lets be real here, cooper being the only real potential game changer. I do think the All Blacks can get better and will and I don’t think they have peaked to early, I think they have developed a game plan that plays to their strengths and the new law enterprations help this. Try not to take away from this game as the wallabies were well and truly beaten by a side which i believe will continue to get better, and I don’t think any of the returning players would have made much of a difference in this outcome. The wallabies time will come, I jsut don’t think it will be this year and maybe not even 2011…
August 1st 2010 @ 11:34am
Justin said | August 1st 2010 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Nearly a third of a team wouldn’t improve performance?
August 1st 2010 @ 4:17pm
Richierich said | August 1st 2010 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
So how good will the ABs be when Kahui, Sivivatu, and Ali Williams come back?
The argument that we were missing guys just doesn’t wash. The Wallabies have not just lost last night but the last 8 matches
August 1st 2010 @ 6:06pm
Justin said | August 1st 2010 @ 6:06pm | Report comment
I presume that’s a rhetorical question
August 1st 2010 @ 9:26am
Glenn Condell said | August 1st 2010 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Sheek you’re right about the cattle, though I reckon the cattle we have would go well against the blacks if they were bigger. The point about Brown is spot on but it is the same with Horne – both are real goers but it’s rabbits vs big game
apart from that the two main factors for mine were mcCaws presence and Coopers absence. It was good to see Richie praise his opposite when receiving the MOM but he was immense. Giteau was poor and I am sick of people pretending he’s going ok. Cooper was correct in commentary that the attack needed to be flatter and more direct
as fir the reffing, consistent it may have been but pedantic it certainly was