AFL not so welcome in Irish heartland
So what do the Irish really think of Aussie Rules? Having spent some time in the heart of the Irish Republic recently, I took the opportunity to find out what the Gaelic Amateur Association (GAA) fans thought about their cousin, Aussie Rules.
“It’s so violent, a ridiculous game!” claimed a 40 year old GAA obsessed mother who met her husband in the stands at a GAA game. “Sure the last time the Aussies were over, I don’t know what they were playing, or what rules. Sheer madness.”
GGA rules the roost across the midlands of Ireland, although it’s interesting to see the huge strides football (soccer) has made in recent times.
While the GAA, comprising of Gaelic football and hurling, have clubs in every town and village, football has it’s own resources – clubhouses and artificial pitches sitting less prominently but increasingly well-resourced across the land. It’s a huge improvement from thirty years ago, where schools would ban the round ball from even entering the playgrounds.
“Don’t be taking our players, we know all about you Aussies!” was the slightly less than friendly welcome as I walked into Clonad GAA Club, Co Laois, to watch the U8s playing. “Besides, there’s nothing for your Aussie Rules here tonight. The kids are only playing hurling.”
“Beware we care not what sport you play, just if the kid can run, jump and catch,” I returned.
I think he winced a little.
Even in Ireland the cashed-up AFL holds fear for those running the local games, and GAA is an amateur game at that. Discussions continued throughout the evening as parents dropped their next little Tadgh Kenneally or Jim Stynes at the clubhouse.
To most sports fans Gaelic Football and Aussie Rules are as close as you get, only League and Union perhaps confusing non-believers as much.
To the Irish, Aussie Rules is a foreign, violent game.
And this from GAA fans who give their eight years-olds a hurl – a stick for want of a better word, with which they can swing with gay abandon, it seems. And only last year they enforced their keepers to wear a small head protective unit, what about the rest of the wee bodies I protested.
“You wimp,” came the reply.
Crowds for GAA in Ireland are on the wane, newspapers reported, except for the big finals games. Of course, the huge recession probably doesn’t help in a country where Public Service pay salaries were cut 15 percent overnight earlier this year.
Great traditional Irish welcomes were laid out for a returning son, but I couldn’t help feel that the locals fondness for all things Australia was tinged these days with a slight fear – fear of the AFL stealing our boys.
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August 18th 2010 @ 7:45am
Mister Football said | August 18th 2010 @ 7:45am | Report comment
Over the past five to six years, about 8 to 12 Irish boys have tried out with AFL clubs each year, and only one or two survive the pre-season. Of those that stay on, maybe half will get to play one senior match.
If that’s the full extent of it, then I don’t see it having a big impact on the GAA.
All those boys returning after a pre-season are very thankful for the experience, and are better for the small taste of what it means to be a professional footballer, and that’s not a bad experience to go home with.
August 18th 2010 @ 8:17am
mds1970 said | August 18th 2010 @ 8:17am | Report comment
There are hundreds of Australians playing soccer overseas, several playing rugby or league. The number of Pacific Islanders playing rugby or league in Australia or New Zealand is huge. And there are plenty who stay within their country but are enticed to change codes – Karmichael Hunt, Israel Folau, Lote Tuqiri, Mat Rogers, the list goes on.
That’s the way sport goes. GAA, being strictly amateur, struggles to compete with the professionals. But compared to some other codes in some other countries, they don’t lose many.
August 18th 2010 @ 7:58am
True Tah said | August 18th 2010 @ 7:58am | Report comment
“It’s a huge improvement from thirty years ago, where schools would ban the round ball from even entering the playgrounds.”
Eamonn, I dont watch too much GAA, but Im fairly certain the ball they use is round.
“GGA rules the roost across the midlands of Ireland, although it’s interesting to see the huge strides football (soccer) has made in recent times.”
As opposed to 1990, when the ROI qualified for the FIFA World Cup, and the the head of the Irish Futbol Association was quoted as saying you can shove your GAA up your a***. Are these huge crowds reflected in Eircom League crowds?
August 18th 2010 @ 9:16am
Simmo said | August 18th 2010 @ 9:16am | Report comment
There are probably more Irish travelling to Old Trafford and Parkhead every second week than go to LoI games tbf
August 18th 2010 @ 9:46am
Mister Football said | August 18th 2010 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Both good points True Tah – and does bring into question the true motives of the author to raise what sounds like a non-issue.
August 18th 2010 @ 8:00am
Redb said | August 18th 2010 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Maybe they should talk to Jim Stynes.
August 18th 2010 @ 8:02am
chris said | August 18th 2010 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Ireland and are Australia share a common sporting ground as they have too many codes,Australia with AFL,League and Union while Ireland have Hurling,GAA Football and Union.
It’s quite annoying.
August 18th 2010 @ 8:22am
Farqwar said | August 18th 2010 @ 8:22am | Report comment
Both Ireland and Australia have Association Football too in case you didn’t notice.
August 18th 2010 @ 8:14am
macavity said | August 18th 2010 @ 8:14am | Report comment
“It’s so violent, a ridiculous game!” claimed a 40 year old GAA obsessed mother
and yet the AFL is pushing the code to naive cotton-wool mums on the premise that it is infinitely less violent than those nasty rugby codes…
August 18th 2010 @ 9:29am
Tom said | August 18th 2010 @ 9:29am | Report comment
The AFL players who go to Ireland have been incredibly bad ambassadors over the years, which probably contributes to the idea that the game is violent. I remember Chris Johnson picking a couple of fistfights at Croke Park a few years ago. I don’t ever remember him doing anything like that in the AFL.
August 18th 2010 @ 9:49am
Mister Football said | August 18th 2010 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Yes agreed. It’s a black mark on Chris Johnson, and it was all quite embarassing for an AFL fan.
I’m always very happy to say unequivocally: get your head over the ball, and forget about that rubbish.
August 18th 2010 @ 10:06am
Michael C said | August 18th 2010 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Tom -
certainly Chris Johnson had a reasonably out of character ‘explosion’ that sticks in everyone’s minds – - as for me too, that comes first to mind for an on field poor show.
However, the worst by far ‘ambassador’ over the years was drunken Brendon Fevola in the pub!!!!
HIt might’ve been the 2nd test of the 2006 series over in Dublin where the game degenerated quickly – but, it was actually some ‘clumsy’ knees and legs first tackling by the Irish that set the agenda. However, they might not have thought it that bad, however,….
…….I do gather what tends to muddy these contests is that what is ‘acceptable’ in GAA is deemed unacceptable (if not cowardly) in AFL and what is ‘acceptable’ in AFL is deemed unacceptable (if not cowardly) in the GAA.
August 18th 2010 @ 9:38am
Jay said | August 18th 2010 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Eion Morgan had a hurling background… he’s probably the worst of them all – not only does he play cricket – but for England!!!
August 18th 2010 @ 10:29am
Midfielder said | August 18th 2010 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Ireland is an unique in sport in that both Gaelic & Hurling have survived from past years in a relatively mainstream way. Perhaps because they were not English is the key reason. Whereas in England sports like Hockey have become quite minor.
Without doubt however is the money sports in Ireland are Football & Rugby, and to a lesser extend Rugby League. These sports take the lions share of the best athletes the same as the football codes in Australia [53 professional sporting teams does not leave much for Hockey] .
Add the changing world when Football is now allowed to be played and worst still the internet. A client of mine who is recently arrived from Ireland told me once, success in Rugby Union in the seven nations and recently the Football performing better is placing huge strains on the Gaelic claim to be the Irish sport not that imported English crap … So boys don’t play those English sports does not have the same effect anymore… simply because so many countries play them it is hard to continue the argument of Football & Rugby being English sports, they are world sports.
Meaning I guess Gaelic football is under enormous pressure to maintain itself in its current position. Expansion of Gaelic is difficult to imagine.
Resulting in the best Irish athletes play Football & Rugby and getting players who in the past would have played Gaelic…. Thus a new form of Gaelic (AFL) taking some players would hurt as well and I can see why there is concern…
In closing what has not been said in the article and in posts to date is the environment that Gaelic lives… Unlike Melbourne & Sydney where AFL & NRL are thrown at you all day … the big sports in the media are Football & Rugby add the net combined with wages on offer and Gaelic is under pressure few other sports are under.
August 18th 2010 @ 11:29am
Forgetmenot said | August 18th 2010 @ 11:29am | Report comment
http://www.englishclub.com/writing/caps0.htm
August 18th 2010 @ 11:34am
Michael C said | August 18th 2010 @ 11:34am | Report comment
which is why, for the GAA, the relationship with the AFL is something they need to nurture rather than reject – - and in saying that, undoubtedly the forces ‘FOR’ the relationship realise this.
The capacity of the GAA to host Australia every couple of years and draw 80,000 to Croke Park is super important. Even if it is a compromise IR game and not ‘pure’ Gaelic Football (even though it looks more like it than it does AFL).
The numbers thus far fully support that just a small number of the Irish lads stick out any longer than a couple of years. For every Kennelly there’s a half dozen who didn’t make it and have returned to Ireland and invariably to the GAA as players with a professional skills/fitness base to build upon. I dare say there are more returns to GAA from AFL than from Rugby or Soccer…….although I acknowledge this pure hunch.
This list is pretty self explanatory of the failure rate :
Out right Success stories -
Sean Wight (1982, VFL debut 1985), 150 games
Jim Stynes (1984, VFL debut 1987), 264 games
Tadhg Kennelly (2001, AFL debut 2001), 175 games, still playing
Partial success stories -
Setanta O’hAilpin (2004, AFL debut 2005), 72 games (still listed)
Martin Clarke (2006, AFL debut, 2006), 46 games (returned to Ireland but apparently interested in coming back).
Colm Begley (2006, AFL debut 2006), 30 games (delisted, returned to Ireland, playing in GAA)
And then it falls right away to guys who actually managed at least 1 game :
Paul Earley (1983, VFL debut 1984), 1 game
Dermot McNichol (1987, AFL debut 1990), 3 games
Brian Stynes (1990, AFL debut 1992), 2 games
Pierce Hanley (2007, AFL debut 2007), 10 games (currently playing with Brisbane)
Michael Quinn (2008, AFL debut 2008), 7 games, still listed at Essendon, doing alright at Bendigo.
Jamie O’Reilly (2009, AFL debut 2010), 1 game, debuted last Saturday, did okay. Might play the rest of the season.
So, over more than 25 years,……it’s hardly a flood.
Amongst the lads to come and go :
James Fahy (Melb), Tom Grehan (Melb), Niall Buckley (Melb), Colin Corkery (Carl), Colm McManamon (Geel), Anthony Tohill (Melb), Nicholas Walsh (Melb), Kevin Devine (Melb), Bernie Collins (WBG), Declan O’Mahoneny (Syd), Aisake O’hAilpin (Carl), Brendan Murphy (Syd), Kevin Dyas (Coll), Michael Shields (Carl), Kyle Coney (Syd), Brian Donnelly (Ade)
The overwhelming majority have returned home within 2 years and are back in the GAA. I do just wonder what the GAA return rate is on 14 yr olds being lured to play soccer/rugby at school is??
currently there’s a few guys like Conor Meredith (North), Zach Tuohy (Carl), Tommy Walsh (StK) and Chris McKaigue (Syd) who are giving it a crack. A few others who have trialled and may or may not be invited to fulfill a rookie listing.
The numbers don’t really stack up. For AFL clubs, quite likely the next 10 years will see PNG, RSA and the Pacific as the new international experiment with kids now learning the real game of Australian Football from a young age, tackling and all as they progress.
August 18th 2010 @ 12:15pm
Mister Football said | August 18th 2010 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
MC
add to that stacks of blokes who are invited to do a pre-season – then return almost immediatley – for a variety of reasons – far too many to mention.
I agree that PNG, Sth Africa and the Pacific Islands combined will soon become a far more important source of footballing talent than Ireland.
August 18th 2010 @ 12:40pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | August 18th 2010 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Michael C
This article by Peter Hanlon in Saturday’s Melbourne Age gives an interesting perspective on the AFL’s expansion interstate & o/s.
Surely, Business 101 suggests it’s more important and less expensive to keep existing customers happy than try to win new customers?
I reckon Aussie Rules leagues around country Victoria, WA, SA & Tas, each year produce more AFL players who go on to play 100 AFL games than Eire, Sth Africa, PNG & the Pacific will produce over the next century.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/sydney-or-the-bush-20100813-1238b.html
August 18th 2010 @ 1:45pm
Forgetmenot said | August 18th 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Country football clubs are dying purely because towns are shrinking as more people move to regional centres and cities.
Being realistic, i reckon that with the growth of football overseas, AFL players from overseas will be a non-event in about 50 years (ie there will be so many that it wont be newsworthy). And you can quote me on that in 50 years.
August 18th 2010 @ 3:48pm
beaver fever said | August 18th 2010 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
Exactly, when i hear of a Irishman, PNGian etc , trialling or being rookie listed, i dont think of it as a weird experiment anymore, i think of it as natural progression.
The pool is getting deeper all the time, i do feel bad if Australian kids are/have/will being shunted in favour of O/S kids, but at the end of the day ………… thats life.
Hopefully a return to football nous and skills instead of beep tests etc is starting to happen.
August 18th 2010 @ 2:08pm
Michael C said | August 18th 2010 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
F.I.U.L.
I agree on Ireland.
I disagree on PNG, RSA etc. The Aust Dollar goes okay there, and probably provides better bang for your buck than attempting to penetrate fortress Sydney.
Country clubs re your link, as per Forgetmenot, most of it is the changing demographics of rural Australia. IN particular rural Victoria, where, from the Kennett era when the many rural shires were amalgamated, such that towns that used to house a shire depot, and have a shire president and planner etc – - along with Banks, manned RR stations, SEC depots etc etc have all gone to the larger rural centres.
August 18th 2010 @ 4:47pm
The all new King of the Gorganites said | August 18th 2010 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
Whats the seven nations. is that a bit like the 6 nations rugby comp?
August 18th 2010 @ 1:04pm
The Phantom said | August 18th 2010 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Isn’t Padraig Harrington a golfer?????
August 18th 2010 @ 1:32pm
Michael C said | August 18th 2010 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
yeah, true, I made an error cutting down a longer list!!!
Good pick up,…. at least someone read that comment!!
August 18th 2010 @ 2:14pm
Republican said | August 18th 2010 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Crickey, if that fella reckons our code is violent what then must he and the rest of his passive countrymen and women think of ‘Thugby’?
This is spin and a bit of a residue from the last bloody encounter that left the Irish smarting but hey who cares what the Irish or anyone else for that matter think of the Aussie game – it makes little difference to the support it derives here at home.
The same can be said of the GAA support in Ireland. I actullay love Hurling which is quite agriculturally violent at times but I reckon Gaelic Footy is not as good as our game due to it’s use of the roond ball.
There seems to exist a continueing cringe on both countries part, in affirming each others code by creating a hybrid since they share some heritage. I say leave them alone and appreciate them for the respective cultural value they bring to both countries.
‘Erin Gobragh’
August 18th 2010 @ 2:24pm
beaver fever said | August 18th 2010 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
Thought you might be interested in this Republican, little bit of press regarding the Collingwood Hurling team in 1877, BTW good newspaper to search anything regarding Australian history.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5933939?searchTerm=collingwood+hurling+club
Not sure where Kinsellas paddock ( Johnston St i think) is but they also played hurling at Dights paddock which is Victoria Park.