Crunch time for Wallaby and Springbok coaches
Roar Pro By stash, 23 Aug 2010 stash is a Roar Pro
- Tagged:
- Peter de Villiers, robbie deans, Rugby Union, Springboks, Tri Nations, wallabies
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The din of the crowd has fallen silent, the smoke has cleared and we are left with the image of John Smit burnt into our consciousness.
A shattered, broken soldier devastated by a powerful final four minute performance of an All Black team that fought back from the brink of defeat with a stunning and inexplicable two try finale, and stealing a win from the clutches of a desperate Bok team.
The thunder of Soweto silenced in an instance. The crown is gone now.
The All Blacks drift from the township as heroes in their own land with the eyes of a crushed Bok team watching as they fade into the sunset, wondering if it is indeed the Springboks that peaked too early after their glittering performances in the Tri-Nations series of 2009.
The All Blacks entered the 2010 internationals as an angry beast, shunned by their own supporters, with their players struggling to show form in the Super 14.
However, as a core group, they have ascended into a ruthless animal, playing a brand of rugby that is the envy of many nations, and seems destined to be the blueprint going forward as all begin to look at the 2011 World Cup that is slowly, but surely, drawing close.
But for now, it is time to cast our eyes towards the pending battles between the Wallabies and Springboks.
What makes this so very intriguing is that both coaches are under fire from their supporters, and those that run their respective unions.
Deans may be allowed to lose one match, but two losses and then a trip back to Sydney to play a rested All Blacks team that is focusing on world record number of wins in a row might be too much. A further loss may very well spell doom for Deans.
After a decisive hammering in Melbourne, Deans gained a reprieve when the Wallabies brought their best game to New Zealand, but three more losses in a row, combined with the worst consecutive record ever against the All Blacks may simply be too unpalatable for Deans’ keepers.
Meanwhile, in South Africa, Peter de Villiers is under similar pressure, and while he may have relieved some of that after the stirring performance by the Boks in Soweto, the fact it was a loss will not sit well with his detractors.
Should de Villiers lose the next game, it may bring to a close his reign after an embarrassing string of losses at the end of 2009, and in this Tri-Nations series. Two loses and it would simply seem impossible for him to retain his position.
So, what are your predictions for the Wallaby v Springbok games? Will defeat spell the end of one of these coaches?
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- Peter de Villiers, robbie deans, Rugby Union, Springboks, Tri Nations, wallabies
August 23rd 2010 @ 7:31am
stillmissit said | August 23rd 2010 @ 7:31am | Report comment
I think it could well spell the end for De Villiers but I think Deans is safe. O’Neil will not change Deans until after the RWC as he and a lot of us are convinced there is not a better coach in the country. McKenzie trying to get Matt Rogers to play for the Reds shows me that he has learnt nothing over the last 3 years and he would add little to the Wallabies.
De Villiers has had a dream run with players and you could say he has suffered the fate of Eddie Jones by trying to get them to perform a couple of seasons too long without bringing in new youngsters. This must be hard as most coaches seem to fall into this trap.
After the world cup which is only 13 months away is gone so will Robbie Deans and then we can all talk about his legacy or lack of it. I predict De Villiers will not coach the Springboks in the RWC they have a different and more ruthless approach than us.
August 23rd 2010 @ 9:32am
PastHisBest said | August 23rd 2010 @ 9:32am | Report comment
“McKenzie trying to get Matt Rogers to play for the Reds shows me that he has learnt nothing over the last 3 years…”
What’s up with that?? Put down the crack pipe Ewen and get back to the excellent job you were doing earlier this year.
August 23rd 2010 @ 3:41pm
Hawko said | August 23rd 2010 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
How quickly people forget. Rogers playing for the Tahs under Link was absolutely dynamic and some of his running was absolutely breathtaking. Putting aside what you think of some of the off-field stuff, when it came to game-day he could do things others only dream about.
National coaches never got the same results from him, mainly I think because people underestimate Link’s man-management skills. He would have been an invaluable back-up to the Reds starters and if injury struck you could rely on him to give you a genuine S15 replacement. Reds loss that he chose retirement, certainly.
August 23rd 2010 @ 4:02pm
Cattledog said | August 23rd 2010 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
I tend to agree with you Hawko. Links man-management is sorley missing from the Wallaby set up at present. Links offer to Rogers would have been as a back-up, and I suggest a great back-up at that. However, that’s not how Matt saw his last couple of years. Fair enough to.
I’m sure link will find someone. Look closely enough and there out there.
August 23rd 2010 @ 7:19pm
Rockin Rod said | August 23rd 2010 @ 7:19pm | Report comment
Maybe he just thinks Cooper will go
August 23rd 2010 @ 8:53pm
PastHisBest said | August 23rd 2010 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
No, I didn’t forget. However that was several lifetimes ago. I wouldn’t sign a 35 year old RL player for quids. Spend the money on a young comer. The reds are full of them.
August 24th 2010 @ 6:50am
Red Rooster said | August 24th 2010 @ 6:50am | Report comment
Is that not the point – they are full of young, exciting but inexperienced players. A back-up , experienced player, who has played 45 tests would have given them great insurance across a longer season
August 23rd 2010 @ 7:48am
pothale said | August 23rd 2010 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Getting rid of PdV now?
Can’t see it happening at this late stage surely prior to WC. When would you bring a new coach in?
For the November internationals – to attempt a Grand Slam Tour? After these at end of year? A new coach would only have the benefit of a truncated Tri Nations next July/August to see what his team was like. Just don’t see it.
August 23rd 2010 @ 11:02am
stillmissit said | August 23rd 2010 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Pothale – I am just assuming that the SA’s do what they normally do and that is over react to a situation. Dumping White was a classic case. PdV will be different as he is a political appointee but there are limits to patience in S.A. they are a very proud and dedicated rugby nation and have plenty of options in terms of coaches and players.
August 23rd 2010 @ 12:48pm
Sam Taulelei said | August 23rd 2010 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
Don’t forget Pothale that Jake White in 2007 had to leave the team in Britain during their world cup preparations and fly back to plead his case with SARU as they were prepared to dump him because of his refusal to select his side based on colour quotas. So nothing is beyond the realms of possibility.
August 23rd 2010 @ 9:01pm
pothale said | August 23rd 2010 @ 9:01pm | Report comment
True Sam and Stilmissit –
I forget occasionally the politics and hoopla surround SA sport.
August 23rd 2010 @ 10:33am
Justin said | August 23rd 2010 @ 10:33am | Report comment
I am not sure what the Australian coaching panel is doing but they sure arent doing anything that produces creativity like this – http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/video/0,,Forward%20Thinking%20with%20Kafe_00,00.html
August 23rd 2010 @ 11:00am
stillmissit said | August 23rd 2010 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Hi Justin – I saw this section and it made me sick to think that we had plays like that over 10 years ago and now I can’t see much in terms of structure and just downright rat cunning.
Either these guys don’t want to ‘get smart’ or Deans is not doing his job. Now I have spoken to and heard Deans talk on a few occasions and he sure ain’t no rugby dummy, so what is going on?
I am firmly of the belief that our cattle are spoiled by a lack of commitment by about 20% of the lesser cattle and BTW this 20% changes on a game by game basis.
I can’t work it out, it hurts my head – what are your thoughts?
August 23rd 2010 @ 11:18am
bennalong said | August 23rd 2010 @ 11:18am | Report comment
A good point Justin, and great memories!
But Kafe is forgetting the problems we had while Steve Larkham was still present to work these moves but we’d become a defensive side that couldn’t mount an attack from broken play and couldn’t use George Smith’s turnovers productively to attack.
Whenever the “new” Wallabies have played successfully we’ve seen the support play heralding the new dawn……………but next game we fail to consolidate.
The game being played by the Blacks is indeed the Red’s game of this Super 14 season, but it draws from Kiwi traditions in which simple techniques performed accurately and at speed mean you actually can “play what’s in front of you!”
Our problem next week is containing the big men in defence and breaking the line in attack
In defence it’s all about avoiding Streynes’ boot. Not being caught short and infringing in desperation.
In attack inventiveness is needed with Cooper finding players running on angles from depth AND supported!
We have the players to do it even now and with their new halfback, and with Cooper attracting inside defenders, like flies to a white shirt, Genia may find more opportunities to return to form.
He too must be supported!
With our history at altitude we have no right to be confident.
On the other hand, the Boks may not have the legs as Spiros points out, and while I expect passion, their “demotion” by successive losses may take an edge off them, especially in the championship minutes toward the end
August 23rd 2010 @ 11:48am
RedsNut said | August 23rd 2010 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Like many others, I too am confused by Deans’ selections. He’s not a fool, and if he has his eye on coaching the ABs at some time he sure as hell ain’t doing his CV a whole lot of good.
August 23rd 2010 @ 11:52am
stillmissit said | August 23rd 2010 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Bennelong – at least in Larkham’s time we had a group who were prepared to support one another in attack with the discipline to hold a defensive line.
These days the success of McQueen has been watered down to just hold the line (if you can).
We are desperately in need of a new innovation to our rugby coaching and I agree with you to some extent that the Wallabies cant do what the Crusaders can do, let alone the AB’s.
Courage is only one aspect of winning and the other main aspect is working out how to beat the opponent with tactics, sometimes clever sometimes devious but you need some reason for faith in a win. Without either of these key ingredients you ain’t got much chance against a committed and powerful opponent.
I can’t see us winning one game in SA but would love to be surprised.
August 23rd 2010 @ 3:39pm
EP - Rugbywits said | August 23rd 2010 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
“Courage is only one aspect of winning and the other main aspect is working out how to beat the opponent with tactics, sometimes clever sometimes devious but you need some reason for faith in a win. Without either of these key ingredients you ain’t got much chance against a committed and powerful opponent.”
That is a good point Stillmissit. I think we go out there with such a broad plan sometimes that we just want to ‘beat’ them in all areas. What it takes to win a good side is to do all the fundamentals and have a very specific game plan.
I would say the allblacks specific game plan is almost a counterintuitive one. Spread it wide very fast and support the 13,15 or winger who gets it. Then spread it very wide the other way as fast as you can. At that point the defence has been stretched and they begin to hit the sliding forwards with good deep loose forward and second row ball running up the tired middle of defence.
That is a very specific game plan and one that at first sounds a bit dumb (everyone says you have to ‘earn the right’ to go wide) but if you commit to that as a plan then everyone is on the same page and looking for the results. The tactic isnt long passing or the pick and drive – they are the fundamentals – the tactic is the idea that you can spread the defenders out to make them softer up the middle instead of ramming the forwards heads against a brick wall from the outset.
Other specifics is that they like to kick long and keep the ball in against South Africa. But against us they usually like to kick it out because we are a bit better at running it back. They take special notice in those areas. Its not about long kicking – that is a fundamental skill – the tactic is what you are trying to achieve out of it.
We all say they are great passing, great pick and drive, great pop ups and good kickers, but that is all fundamentals. Not tactics.
August 23rd 2010 @ 12:12pm
jeremy said | August 23rd 2010 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
I think the Wallabies will do it over the Boks – the ABs game has to be a massive kick in the goolies for them – home crowd, Smith’s 100, fully rested, some first class players back in the side and they still got knocked at the death.
Wallabies have to go into this match like they’re playing the ABs. And then they need to do it again – no drop off in intensity like after the Brisbane game…and then they need to come back to Australia and do it again.
bennalong – thank you for articulating something I’ve been yelling at the fox sports crew for the past month. the reds didn’t invent that style of rugby, it’s not really even a style, it’s simple running rugby.
August 23rd 2010 @ 12:22pm
Hayden said | August 23rd 2010 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
I don’t think the Wallabies have the mental toughness required to win, especially at altitude. If the Boks play to the same level they played against the ABs, they’ll win comfortably.
August 23rd 2010 @ 1:07pm
stash said | August 23rd 2010 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
Hayden, do you really think the Boks can bring the same passion to the next game. They would be absolutely gutted after that. It really was a key match that they absolutely felt the need to win, with some commentators saying it was one of THE most important matches for the Boks!
Surely it would be difficult to replicate that motivation. The Boks that showed up in Australia after the 2 losses to New Zealand were equally as despondent. This has to be good time for the Wallabies to strike.
August 23rd 2010 @ 2:27pm
Stormer said | August 23rd 2010 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Mate you talking about LOFTUS VERSFELD now, aussies voodoooooooo!!!
August 23rd 2010 @ 2:30pm
Moaman said | August 23rd 2010 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Bennalong-you seem to imply that the ABs are copying the Reds’ Gameplan-surely not your intention as that would be utter rubbish IMHO! NZ played(or attempted to)this style during their unsuccessful 3N campaign last season and again on the end of year tour.The match against France in Marseille was where it all came together.Perhaps the Reds management were watching that game?
August 23rd 2010 @ 5:54pm
bennalong said | August 23rd 2010 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
I have no doubt that the Reds showed Henry and Co how to beat the Bulls and therefore the Boks. if the Blacks were trying to play that game in last years TN they didn’t do it very well, and Carter should’ve been told the high balls weren’t part of the plan
I then said “it draws from Kiwi traditions” so I don’t know why you got your cajones in a knot.
All the Kiwis I know thought the Reds were great. Obviously you saw them as a pale imitation of the Blacks and were unimpressed
August 23rd 2010 @ 6:13pm
Nerk said | August 23rd 2010 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
bennalong this “reds taught the ABs how its done” line in not really true. Before the Reds even played the Bulls the Blues played and beat them in an equally convincing display, using what was actually a far more similar gameplan to the ABs current style. The Blues played not only with the expansive qualities echoed by the Reds (who were able to copy the Blues style book) but also with the huge desire to win at the collision point, which has been a hallmark of the ABs this 3N. To ignore the Blues result and say the Reds school the ABs is wishful thinking at best.
August 23rd 2010 @ 6:16pm
Nerk said | August 23rd 2010 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
The Blues also won their game by a larger margin (and beat the Reds in pool play).
August 24th 2010 @ 6:50am
Richierich said | August 24th 2010 @ 6:50am | Report comment
Blues beat the Reds at home also don’t forget that point either
August 23rd 2010 @ 9:00pm
PastHisBest said | August 23rd 2010 @ 9:00pm | Report comment
“the Reds showed Henry and Co how to beat the Bulls and therefore the Boks”
Riiiight….thank god for the reds, otherwise the All Blacks would have had another losing season against SA.
August 24th 2010 @ 6:50am
Richierich said | August 24th 2010 @ 6:50am | Report comment
You seem to forget the Blues beat the Bulls first.
Also the fact Carter was missing from the first two tests in SA last year.