NRL claiming western Sydney victory
By Steve Jancetic, 9 Sep 2010 Steve Jancetic is a Roar Pro
- Tagged:
- AFL, David Gallop, NRL, Rugby League
The NRL claims increased crowd figures prove rugby league is winning the war with AFL for the hearts and minds of western Sydney. NRL boss David Gallop on Wednesday held his annual state of the game address, releasing data which he claimed highlighted the enormity of the task facing the AFL as it seeks to make an impact in rugby league heartland.
Crowds in Sydney’s west rose 7.4 per cent in 2010 to help the NRL set an all-time attendance record of 3,151,019 – the increase allaying fears that the arrival of the Greater Western Sydney AFL franchise would adversely impact rugby league’s supporter base.
“To see us getting some growth in that area is excellent for the game and a warning to the other codes that we dominate out there and we plan to continue to dominate out there,” Gallop said.
“I think they’ve (AFL) got a big challenge on their hands, I think they’ve taken a big punt.
“The fact is rugby league lives and breathes in western Sydney, we’re part of the community, we have been for a century and I think the numbers show the generational support that we’ve got out there.”
The growth in Sydney’s west was offset by a 4.6 per cent drop in attendances in Queensland, with disappointing seasons for Brisbane and North Queensland contributing to the drop.
Figures produced by the NRL also showed the league was in a strong bargaining position ahead of negotiations for the new television rights deal.
Talks are set to begin early next year, the NRL to go into the meeting armed with huge rating figures with seven of the top 20 programs on free to air television rugby league broadcasts – all of them State of Origin telecasts.
The dominance is even more pronounced on pay television, with 39 of the top 50 programs on subscription television rugby league matches.
The NRL’s push for fans to become members certainly paid up with memberships up 28 per cent in 2010, Wests Tigers showing the greatest increase after more than doubling their base to 6583 financial members.
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- Explore:
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beaver fever said | September 9th 2010 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Good luck to RL, but the reality is that for the AFL to go OK in Sydneys west it does not need to one fan to jump ship from RL, there is plenty of people out there.
Totally different situation than the GCFC for mine, as their is only a very small base of Australian football fans/players in Sydneys west, the AFL has a good record of supporting clubs, i guess we can only wait and see how they go.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 8:57am | Report comment
Very premature call by the NRL given the new AFL team has not even kicked a sherrin. I think any assessment of rugby league participation in Melbourne prior to the Storm would not look favourable either.
Realisticially, at the end of this decade 2020 there would be a far more interesting and relevant report of affairs.
Rob C said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
Redb, you can hardly compare GWS with the Melbourne Storm given AFL has been in Sydney for 30 years now.
Comparing Melbourne Storm to the Swans when they first came to Sydney would be a more accurate picture.
No matter which way you look at it the AFL is going to burn significan amounts of cash for a venture which won’t achieve the necessary market penetration that the AFL wants and needs to be successful in GWS. Unless the business model of this AFL Club changes to be more like league (where it can prosper of the base of smaller crowds supplemented by significant TV ratings and commercial opportunities) than it will fail badly. I can not see this happening and this team will be lucky to average 10,000 over its first 5 years of existance.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Rob C,
The Swans journey in its first 15 years was pretty ordinary, private play thing in eastern Sydney. Expats and Aussie Rules locals (similiar to rugby unions base in Melbourne) struggled to keep the club alive and it almost went under a couple of times. Barely made a dent on the sporting landscape in Sydney.
It wasnt until the GF in 1996 and then 2005 that support grew beyond a small base to at times big crowd support. 3 x 60,000 in 2007. So the ‘excess’ support is there just have to tap into it and grow a new base with an aspirational team for GWS.
10,000 is probably realistic for GWS. It will burn money for sometime. Just as Storm burnt a lot of News Ltd money.
The Swans come from a different era and bear little relation to the Storm.
JVGO said | September 10th 2010 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
The Swans made their major inroads during the superleague war. Those were different times.
oikee said | September 9th 2010 @ 8:21am | Report comment
In the largest city of Australia, rugby league is king, will always be king. Sydney people have their heads screwed on right, Brisbane also have good heads, not always screwed on right, but still, our love for league is well known. The game seems to get bigger and better every year, long may this continue.
I have myself been critical of league in Sydney this year, but looking at the Dragons, Eels, Tigers and other armies, i now feel a warm glow for the game.
Final point, beware the warriors. Both the under 20 and nrl side are playing exciting footy.
Mark Young said | September 9th 2010 @ 8:21am | Report comment
I think that Membership has played a huge factor in these numbers. Parra and the Bulldogs had stonkingly good years last year and were expected to continue that form into this year, hence a lot of fans bought their tickets before the season began. So I think their crowds have stayed healthier then they normally would, with them both having terribly disappointing years, with so many tickets already bought.
However, the numbers for Penrith are fairly concerning. They are the only team with cooee of a huge number of league fans, they are having a great season and playing great football, but they are only pulling 10’000 odd fans to each game. I can only hope that there are tens of thousands of fans sitting at home with their families watching the game on Foxtel!
What is certain though is that the TV numbers have been pretty terrific generally!
Fez's are cool said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:47am | Report comment
So true. RL has neglected membership completely until the NSW State Government brought in the Pokies tax. Forced the clubs to wake up and get their fan bases involved with their clubs.
We have seen phenominal growth in memberships in just a couple of years.
Brissie Kid said | September 9th 2010 @ 8:26am | Report comment
It’s not an issue given that the AFL team will be playing at Homebush and not in western Sydney anyway. There’s no way people west of Parramatta are going to rock into Homebush to watch anything other than AC-DC.
Brendan said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Great point, Homebush is geographically closer to the center of Sydney City then Blacktown!! It might sell newspapers but I believe that the GWS moniker has more to do with the afl wanting to take games to Canberra rather then win over western Sydney. The people of western sydney are smarter than people give them credit, they can smell a fraud a mile away..
Fez's are cool said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:49am | Report comment
They are trying to get the hoity toity crowd in the Hills Districts to back them. They aren’t after the middle and lower class suburbs of Western Sydney. I think RU has more to fear from the GWS mob than RL does.
Brendan said | September 9th 2010 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
The hills district.. says it all, Andrew Demetriou will be the next leader of the Hillsong cult..Uh I mean church appealing to the masses.. (no pun intended)
I went to school up in the hills district went to an excusive boys school no less. The first 15 was the most important social clique going around. I remember someone trying to get me to play afl 20 years ago, I even went down and had a kick. It was still social suicide back then…
Its not the west of sydney mind you. If I told someone from school that I lived in Seven Hills(next to blacktown) they looked down their noses at me. If I told people in Seven Hills that I went to a Hills school they would call me a number of things…
Western Sydney = Rugby League
Fez's are cool said | September 9th 2010 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
Exactly. Thats where the AFL fans that follow the Swans west of the bridge live though. I bet the AFL is targeting that market for the core support of this “club”.
Crosscoder said | September 9th 2010 @ 8:35am | Report comment
What the NRL also needs to do in the West,is introduce weight based comps for juniors,to ensure they stay in the code,and not want to leave the game due to a ightweight kiddy facing up ,to a thundering man mountain.
Another point to be noted,the West has a huge junior soccer base,which also makes it much tighter for the AFL to penetrate.The Swans are already in play and have already cornered their niche maket share in Sydney.The Sydney market is aware of AFL,has had the availablity and opportunity to watch it on a regular basis,over the last 30 years.
GWS may in fact draw fans away from the Swans,a fear no doubt in the back of the latter’s minds.
The Storm will at least have the opportunity to grow the code and the club,without the fear of another NRL club coming in to town,to take awy some of the fan base and PR.Totally different from the Sydney west situation, with a new team in town.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Not true, the Storm does have to fear the arrival of the Melb Rebels. large cross over fan base in Melb.
M1tch said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:15am | Report comment
just over 10 000 members..2000 since the salary cap scandal, I think that myth of the Rebels taking all the Storms crowd has been blown out of the water now..
Mind you I have no doubt there will be many co fans of each and Id expect the Rebels to average 20k next year
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Equally Mitch, I think you’ll find Western Sydney has the chance to build its own fan base in time. These arguments suggest zero chance for AFL, all clear for NRL.
If you look at the Swans fan base which can get really big when the bandwagon builds, some of it comes from Western Sydney. So yes it maybe split for casual AFL fans in Sydney, but the base is much bigger than the Storm has in Melbourne to split.
p.s. Note the Rebels have not played a game yet either, so the myth/reality is yet to be found out.
zach said | September 11th 2010 @ 11:40pm | Report comment
Definite rubbery figures by the Storm. They gave away tickets for a dollar for their last game and the stadium was still a third empty. Last paying crowd was 8,900. If GWS are drawing crowds of that size in their first year, let alone their twelfth, leaguies would be calling them a flop.
Ken said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:53am | Report comment
There’s crossover fans everywhere though, most of the AFL fans in Sydney would still have their traditional RL team in the same way that a large proportion of Storm fans would support an AFL team too.
I think the Rebels will carve out their own niche and do OK for themselves but their threat to the Storm is minor at best. The Super Rugby comp is over in May while the NRL footy season is still warming up so crossover fans would probably be welcomed by both camps. Additionally, we’re all aware that the Storm have had trouble getting attention down South (although for better or worse they certainly became better known this year!) and they are in a competition with far more media support and popularity (in this country at least). OK, their FTA presence in Melbourne is an unfunny joke but the Rebels are in a comp that doesn’t even have a FTA contract and has less media presence – I’m yet to hear a reason why they would find it easier.
DB said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:38am | Report comment
NRL winning the war in Western Sydney? Well FMD.
Heres another news flash. In Melbourne it appears the AFL is winning the war.
Ken said | September 9th 2010 @ 9:59am | Report comment
…. and in breaking news we have a report that politicians sometimes lie and most men like looking at naked women, more on these stories as information comes to hand….
Crosscoder said | September 9th 2010 @ 10:13am | Report comment
RedB
Quite the contrary. In sydney we have 1 established AFL team and a newie of the same (not different) code to come in 2012.
At last reports the Rebels are not another NRL club,they are a rugby union club.Although it appears some Melburnians think both codes are the same.Having another NRL repeat NRL club there ,would eat into the supporter base.
Two different yet competing codes.Each has its one eyed non crossover supporters(eg the Storm have a 10,000 membership base and another 10,000 crossovers /flexibles.The diehard ru Rebel supporters would hardly be traipsing over to a Storm match,more so when they were not playing for points.
The Rebels will hardly be playing at the same time as the Storm in Melbourne,unless they decide to play a hybrid game at the same time.In fact if anything they will probably work together to avoid ground conflict.They do share one and the same stadium.
Throw in the fact the Storm has created over 11 years,a base of support,which would have been less likely if the Rebels
and the Storm arrived at the same time.
Bear in mind it was the swans mgt ,who came out publicly and expressed their concern about the arrival of GWS.The Storm have hardly done such a thing with the Rebels.In fact the Rebs made a pact with the Storm,they would not poach their players.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Crosscoder,
Of course they are not an NRL team, but they attract a similar supporter base (core) – expat Kiws, NSW,etc. It is a fact that the rugby union communtity in Melb or least a part of it have been involved with the Storm from day one.
It will all come down to how successful they are in future years. If the Storm are bottom dwellers they may hold their 10,000 base just as if the Swans are down the bottom they will hold their 20,000 (eastern/northern ) base.
The swing voters or AFL bandwagoners will go to the more successul ‘rugby’ team, just as the NRL swingvoters may take an interest in GWS more than the Swans depending on success. That is all I’m saying.
oikee said | September 9th 2010 @ 11:56am | Report comment
While you are on this site Redb, remember me telling you last year that Fevola was the worst thing the lions could have ever done. ????
Pretty much the same as i told the union guys that international games are being flogged to death, that was 2 years ago.????
Both of the codes now have stories on both issues. ?????
You want my prediction for GWS. ?????? its not pretty.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Oikee,
I dont, but let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Fevola was pretty good for the Lions in the first half of the season, bumper crowds, good TV ratings. It all fell apart when he got injured and never fully recovered for the rest of the season.
How he let his marriage to Alex go to shite makes me shake my head.
what an idiot.
Bill Baxter said | September 10th 2010 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Who is to say that the Expat Kiwis and (Expat Poms and South Africans for that matter) and anybody else who currently supports the Storm will change their allegiance?. These are not the few diehard Union followers who supported the failed ARC!!!.
Also as the average Melburnian isn’t supposed to know the difference between the codes why is there likely to be an influx of the curious to Union games?. This curiosity would have been stifled or otherwise in the past 11 years.
This is not to suggest that some Storm supporters will not watch the Rebels, but this will be as well as, not instead of.
oikee said | September 9th 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
My comment seems to be on the verge of not getting through, i have reframed from commenting on other codes outside this blog, which i will continue to do so.
Without starting a code war, Redb, remember me last year commenting about Fervola, how it was a bad decission by the lions to sign this player. Now you have a story about this guy. I also think he has been in trouble before, with gammbling problems, which we are finding out in rugby league, is not good. Work needs to be done.
Also 2 years ago i made comment on the union blog, about their international games. I said at the time that they play way to many, its becoming boring, or what not, whatever i said at the time. I made comment because i could see a problem, nothing more. I see that this is now a problem for them, 2 tests now being played with no relivance whatsoever. I am not putting union down, but i could see the problem 2 years ago.
Its a case of too much of a good thing. My interest in these last 2 games now is zero, allthough i love watching the all-blacks beat the wallabies, but how can you take these 2 dead rubbers seriously. Are they just going to play running rugby, no defence, keep the masses happy. Who knows, the gloss is gone. A simalar senario would be to play 2 more state of origins after QLD won 3 nil. ???
You see where i am coming from.
You talk about GWS in 20 years time, my prediction is in 20 years time, GWS, and AFL in general will be a feeder comp to the other 3 codes. I am not being nasty, its just the way i see the codes panning out. The other 3 codes are growing, it might not look like this to you, or others, but Melbourne and the other states have all got global codes into these areas. The last code to enter the market permantately is the NRL.
I think Perth will fall next, being that NRL has huge potentail in this state, sponsers, supporters and being live into thwe 2 big states, NSW and QLD.
I would also say that the push to get the AFL into the big 2 states will, ultimately be its downfall. How i have come about this is as follows, rugby league has a new t/v deal, which could be double it is now. If this happens, then a 24 percent share of the game for players, will double without giving away any growth money.
The new teams will be pretty well funded before they enter the comp. The under 20 comp is now a big, well huge incentive for juniors to make a mark in the game.
As a parent i would love nothing more to see my kid playing his sport on tele, at the highest level, some kids are 15,16 making their debuts on t/v.
So finally, useing the stratagy that the AFL is now plying for their game, poaching players, not only rugby league, but i also think that soccer, (footy) and rugby union will start to pick the eyes out of the AFL player ranks, i know they could do well, i have read reports how good Keiren Jack has been going. He is league background, same as Brian Carney is Gaelic Footy background.
Now dont get me wrong, i am not saying AFL wont survive, it will, but you will have mainly tall players not suited to other codes. Still be a spectacle, if you like that sort of thing. Cheers mate.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Oikee,
For 20 years time – you can make whatever prediction suits your fancy.
oikee said | September 9th 2010 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
I brought it up Redb because every time you comment, its always a 20 year argument. Your code is always looking at 20 years from now. Comments made by you, look above for proof.
Cheers mate.
In 20 years time, rugby league will be international into most countries, America will be watching most games. League will have a following in most states and have a full-blown comp. Now, come talk again in 20 years. My future predictions have been pretty good so far.
NRL to double its t./v deal.
Rugby league in every state by 2020.
Melbourne Storm to become the biggest league club.
A world cup outside England and Australia by 2021.
Thats a 11 year prediction, give you less time to grow old.
Fez's are cool said | September 9th 2010 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
All of those predictions are pretty spot on.
The NRL’s next media deal does look like doubling from early signs.
Rugby League will be in every state on TV at least. With expansion likely in Ipswich, Perth, Central Coast, Wellington, maybe Adelaide, 2020 is a bit soon for all this though.
Melbourne Storm are already well and truely on their way to becoming the next Broncos. Crowd average jumped from 11k to 14k this year, despite the salary cap scandal (probably the stadium to thank here).
There might be a world cup held in America within the next decade. David Niu, the head of RL in the USA has been talking to the IRLF about it… if not there, there will be one in New Zealand France or Wales. Lebanon and Japan might be on the cards at some point too.
Redb said | September 10th 2010 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Oikee,
I never introduced 20 year predictions, you did.
I said by 2020 do a report in Western Sydney on where the respective sports lie, not one 2 years before a team is even created there.
simon said | September 10th 2010 @ 9:09am | Report comment
I don’t think the 3rd Bledisloe has lost its gloss any more than the 3rd State of Origin this year. We all know that in these games, a dead rubber means nothing.
Paul J said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Here’s a small section from a great article in the SMH from Roy Masters today about the Dragons. AFL fans (is it just RedB today?) feel free to call it trolling etc…
When the Swans – also red and white – came to Sydney in 1982, many of them settled in the St George district. They have subsequently moved to the eastern suburbs, nearer their Centennial Park home and a view of the sea. Nor will the players of the AFL’s GWS expansion team live at Blacktown. The AFL is being deceitful in promoting the image it wants to convert Sydney’s working class west. It covets an upper-middle class corridor along Pennant Hills, Castle Hill and Baulkham Hills within easy access of its new NSW Government-funded home of Sydney Showground at Homebush.
oikee said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Roy Masters, always on the defensive. I think the only players it will hurt is the rugby union ranks to be honest. Soccer is huge out west, but the polynesian kids love rugby league and will continue to do so, even more now with a junior comp fully funded.
We need 2 new teams to take in the numbers. Prediction, by 2020 we will be running a 20 team comp. Super comp.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Paul J,
I do my best to avoid commenting on Roy Master’s articles these days – he’s like a broken record, hates Australian football no matter what it does/doesn’t.
Mister Football said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Roy wrote a decent article in the business section of The Age yesterday: How the AFL and NRL kick their finals goals.
He says the AFL will gross $32 mill from finals tickets this year, while the NRL will gross $12.6 mill.
Both comps have a final 8 and play 9 finals, but the difference is that the AFL is geared towards large neutral venues (MCG and ANZ), while the NRL allows finals games to be played at smaller stadiums.
Ron concludes: “The AFL finals system is designed to produce close games, with ticket prices aimed at the corporate market.”
“The AFL’s approach to finals football attracts the criticism the code is too much of a business to be a sport while the NRL could be accused of being too much of a sport to be a business.”
Neutral Fan said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
It’s pretty obvious that whenever Storm or Swans get on a roll the bandwagon jumps on but once it’s over, then they be back to niches in there respective markets. The Storm & Rebels will be fine and rarely cause any conflict since they play at different time of the year. Not only that, there are people who support more than one code so while both Swans & Storm have there hardcore support they also will have the casual fans or even non-sports fan who would begin to jump on the bandwagons of either code.
Australia is big enough for all codes, and any ‘code war’ is just media beat-up just to stir up the hardcore fans of there respective codes into pointless chest beating and pettiness.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Very true.
Redb said | September 9th 2010 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
To your point Neutral fan, a reader comment from the Daily Telegraph site on this subject:
Andrew of Sydney Posted at 1:47 PM Today
“The two sports can co-exist people! I know people like to drum up “WAR” to sensationalise the issue, but Australian Rules Football and Rugby league are like apples and oranges. Personally I eat both, just because I like one, doesn’t mean I have to hate the other. Get some perspective people and give both games a shot! “
Fez's are cool said | September 9th 2010 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
Hmm. I have never heard an AFL fan say this and mean it. It is war; a war for government funding, Media rights dollars, fans, juniors…
if you want to spruik the “we can all run through the daisies together” line, take out a Storm membership Redb. Until then, drop the cover story, we can all see through it.
Redb said | September 10th 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
The comment was made to due to the Daily Telegraph’s constant war footing NRL v AFL, you never see these types of articles in Melbourne.
M1tch said | September 10th 2010 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
nah all we get is caroline wilson on a so called national sports show just giving jibes about the code as a whole
Fez's are cool said | September 9th 2010 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
How did the Storm manage to increase their memberships by over 2000 and attendences by over 3000 on average this season then?