League in England is in serious trouble
Roar Guru By Corey, 5 Nov 2010 Bam Bam is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- country of origin, England, england rugby league, Four Nations, NRL, Rugby League, State Of Origin
Related coverage
Up until the Four Nations Test in Melbourne on Sunday (31 October), England actually had a higher winning percentage against Australia; it now stands at 50 per cent.
But alarmingly, not only did they lose the game, they lost it convincingly against a team that was seen as below standard.
This English team needs to address this issue, and this comes down to the Rugby Football League, the administrators of the English game.
Gus Gould gave an easy way out for the English team to develop a stronger team: “Send them out here.”
The problem with that solution is this will develop a team where the first team is head and shoulders above the rest – eg European Socceroos versus A-League Socceroos. The other problem is that no NRL team would want English backs – which is their major Achilles heel.
Most believe the NRL is more intense because of the State of Origin. Also probably the amount of media attention they get. But the European Super League doesn’t have the media spotlight and this should not be a hurdle too hard to overcome.
The way forward in England may lie in copying and evolving the State of Origin with a ‘County of Origin’.
It has happened before, but it needs to be expanded. Yorkshire v Lancashire, the battle of the roses, is the old County of Origin, but expand it to Cumbria, another Rugby League heartland (and the most like the Queensland of old with all their players being bought by Yorkshiremen and Lanchashiremen).
This leads to more games, more experience, and more intensified Rugby League in England.
The Challenge Cup is good as it helps the lower grades see where they have to be to play in the top leagues, but it doesn’t help the top teams.
Another note is that England should play against the “Other Nationalities” – a team made up of all the non-English players in the Super League. This would be a great game as they have a lot of Aussies and Kiwis who are ranked above them at the moment, and would develop the French, Scots, Irish and Welsh (if all these nations got picked).
There is a northern hemisphere that plays Rugby League, but it needs some work.
England are the main northern hemisphere team, and they need to catch up with Australia and New Zealand before it becomes a Southern Hemisphere only game
Recommend this story.
The Turkey 10
The Turkey 10 teams have now been selected, as Wild Turkey Bourbon's sport sponsorship kicks into the next exciting phase.
Choose which side you're going to support and get in the running to win $2,500!
Simply visit Wild Turkey Australia on Facebook for your chance to win.
Find out more.
November 5th 2010 @ 4:08am
Viscount Crouchback said | November 5th 2010 @ 4:08am | Report comment
I think it’s time to turn off the lights on poor old English rugby league. Their most talented players – Robinson, Ashton, Farrell – tend to toodle off to union anyway. I’m sure the RFU would provide a flat caps and whippets allowance to any northern clubs that wish to make the transition over to real rugger…
November 5th 2010 @ 8:13am
The Link said | November 5th 2010 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Why would they just give up? English RL isn’t strong at the moment, but that’s no reason to down tools.
November 5th 2010 @ 4:23am
Poth Ale said | November 5th 2010 @ 4:23am | Report comment
Oh Lordy – “flat caps and whippets allowance” – I nearly swallowed my front dentures.
Every now and then, VC, you come out with some patrician pearlers.
November 5th 2010 @ 4:55am
nick said | November 5th 2010 @ 4:55am | Report comment
just to shed some light on the england squad situation,as you pointed out that the aussie squad was depleted
morely, peacock, sinfield, eastmond, mquire, pryce, myler, bridge, shenton, hall, smith.. were all unavailable for selection.. and some more aswell… that would all walk into a starting english side…
eastmond
hall
shenton
pryce
smith
mguire
tomkins
morely
sifield
peacock
ellis
burgess
oloughlin
roby
westwood
crabtree
graham
would be far more competitive
November 5th 2010 @ 5:56am
Matt said | November 5th 2010 @ 5:56am | Report comment
It’s fair to say they’d probably be more competitive. But there are plenty of Kangaroos players not in that team and they’d all be better than the listed injured English players IMO. Guys like Thurston, Carney, Prince, Boyd, Tuquri etc.
When guys like Adrian Morely – 33, Jamie Peacock – 32, Kevin Sinfield – 30 and Leon Pryce – 29 are needed then you must admit things are grim. Those guys have been the backbone of the team for the better part of a decade now. They’re getting pretty old in the tooth and the majority of the next level of players are barely in their 20′s. Where are all the superstars in their prime?
The stocks are looking thin, and the best players are still looking sup-par for international level. And with the salary cap in the NRL nearly double that of the Superleague things are not looking to get any better. If English players want a better quality of competition, a better lifestyle and climate AND more money then they may as well move to the NRL. But where will that leave the Superleague in terms of marquee talent?
Is the only option to reduce the Superleague to 10 teams and concentrate the talent to make it a higher level.
That would also reduce the season length and mean less injuries to the above mentioned casualties. It might also allow for enough caledar space (and public interest) for an Origin game. Something of a higher intensity for European players to aspire towards and a set of 3 extra matches each season of a better skill level, to increase their big game experience.
November 5th 2010 @ 7:01am
Col Quinn said | November 5th 2010 @ 7:01am | Report comment
I do wish someone who actually knows something about rugby league and English rugby league in particular would write an accurate article on the subject. English rugby league is going through a dramatic growth period. Rugby league is expanding into areas that have never had league, ever. As for the test last weekend, both sides were under strength. The English side could put it third string backline on the paddock and as for Ellis and Burgess, Graham and Westwood, in particular, outperformed both these NRL stars. Graham and Westwood dominated the Australian pack and that is why Gallen and Watmough turned on the dirt. Both these player should have had two 10 minute stints in the sin bin. Three of Australia’s tries should have been disallowed. That is 18 points. The English centre’s runaway try that was called back on a forward pass that was not a forward pass would have been 6 points. There were two poor decisions made by the ref that enable Australia to score and stopped England from scoring that would have made a huge difference. Had England been allowed to score the two tries, without the ref’s poor decisions and the three tries score by Australia that should have been disallowed there would have been a different result. Why did Lockyer (33 years old) start to use the kick to try and get a score? Could it be that the English defence (ie Westwood and Graham) were putting Australia to the stick? Gus Gould said the game was deteriorating towards the end. It wasn’t deteriorating, the English forwards were working over the Australian pack well and truly and this went against Gus’s view of the world. What does this mean for the Kiwi test? Sadly I think New Zealand will win and win well.
November 5th 2010 @ 3:03pm
Corey said | November 5th 2010 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
No doubt the game is growing and growing rapidly (thanks to a great CEO at the RFL – which shows that a CEO that isn’t originally a League lover might sometimes be the better choice), but the truth is the numbers at grassroots doesn’t translate into results at international level. I don’t believe this is the end of England, as we have seen, England is a country that can easily produce some great players. Australia has been lucky with Australians being a country where physical games like League, Union and AFL are the most popular codes (at least in viewing terms) and this brings money into the game and more scrutiny. This all brings the game into more professionalism and more expectation from them, which brings about a demand for greater results.
As for the 33 year-old Lockyer, he kicked a lot because he knew about the weakness in the English side, their backs, so he aimed at it. This is a common, and expected, tactic from everyone – including generals, go for the weak spot. England has some great forwards, but they need to get better backs, and quickly – as was noted in the article.
November 5th 2010 @ 7:17am
Crosscoder said | November 5th 2010 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Just reduce the number of imports from Australia and NZ going to England,and give more locals a go.As stated the game over there is going through a boom period in terms of participation and registered players.However when it comes to the ESL,placxes are taken by imports.
Another Pimms for VC, for another lame “dark side”contribution.Stiff upper lip, hey what Throsby.
November 5th 2010 @ 7:26am
True Tah said | November 5th 2010 @ 7:26am | Report comment
The way to improve the English game is to:
cut the number of teams – there are just too many sides just making up the numbers – cut teams like Wakefield, London Harlequins, Cardiff…focus on your areas of strength
cut the number of imports from Australia – need more English guys coming through
November 5th 2010 @ 9:23am
Marcel Proust said | November 5th 2010 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Cardiff ?
You’re probably thinking of the Wrexham-based Crusaders. RL isn’t popular there, but they still have a team !
RL isn’t popular in London, but they still have a team !
Ce n’est pas logique !
November 5th 2010 @ 12:18pm
rugbyfuture said | November 5th 2010 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
crusaders are going into administration is what im hearing
November 5th 2010 @ 3:08pm
Corey said | November 5th 2010 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
They are just dealing with tax and superannuation issues. But they expect them to be resolved (and I wouldn’t be surprised if the RFL steps in, especially with the Millennium Magic Weekend next year) and they have already doubled ticketed membership for next season, and looking at Wrexham, they are taking to them very well and want them to remain there.
I’m actually Welsh by heritage, so I’m pretty defensive about the Crusaders, and it’s why I like watching Union as well, especially this weekend RF.
November 5th 2010 @ 2:51pm
True Tah said | November 5th 2010 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Marcel teams like the Crusaders and Harlequins are just making up the numbers…you need guys playing at a higher intensity week-in, week-out to get more competitive.
November 5th 2010 @ 3:14pm
Corey said | November 5th 2010 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Yeah, to an extent, but you need the expansion teams for the future, so may be get rid of the under performing heartlands. It’s a catch-22, because you want more teams for the revenue, whereas less teams breeds more intensive games. Hopefully they can just pick up the intensity themselves. I would like to see all the teams remain, but just see a stronger competition, which I think the county of origin and other nationalities will bring that along.
November 5th 2010 @ 7:40am
peeeko said | November 5th 2010 @ 7:40am | Report comment
i dont think there is an awful lot wrong with English rugby league. the new matches you have mentioned would do little to improve the quality. the main problem is European Law that rules that players from countries with trade agreements with EU countries (e.g Tonga,Fiji and Samoa) do not count as imports. Hence loads of Kiwis with Tongan,Fijian and Samoan backgrounds are taking the place of English players. the continued rise of the aussie dollar against the pound may help here with the super league cap now 2.6 mln aud where it was effectively 4mln a few years ago
November 5th 2010 @ 8:17am
Ex-pat leaguie said | November 5th 2010 @ 8:17am | Report comment
There is no cardiff….
November 5th 2010 @ 7:41am
Crosscoder said | November 5th 2010 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Can’t agree on cutting London.It is a long term decision,and just like what the Storm are doing in Melbourne,and the GWS is doing in Sydney,you go in for the long haul.Cutting teams might concentrate the quality,but it does not provide for the growing numbers of up and comers.
London is the capital,and having the Harlequins whilst not being ATM acrowd or financial success ,has done wonders for the growth of grassroots poarticipation and registration in the capital.
They should be persevered with until they get on their feet.In other words a generational thing.
Agree with Tah’s last line.
November 5th 2010 @ 2:56pm
True Tah said | November 5th 2010 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
“just like what the Storm are doing in Melbourne”
like massively rorting salary caps
winning premierships but still struggle to crack 12K crowds
losing bucketloads of money
the London Broncos have been around for a long time and didnt get any crowds, and the Harlequins dont seem to be doing much better
the storm are whats wrong with the game here in Australia, the NRL would be better off without them
November 5th 2010 @ 3:13pm
Rob C said | November 5th 2010 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
I suppose you think the opposite for the Rebels though Tah… They are heading into the same environment as the Storm and are coming off just as low a base as the Storm did in terms of development (I would be interested to know if they have any Victorian developed players in their Firsts squad?).
Truth is Melbourne is a key element to the NRL and will be one of the main drivers in an enhanced TV deal. The NRL knows this and that is why they won’t be going anywhere anytime soon!
November 5th 2010 @ 8:00am
Dave said | November 5th 2010 @ 8:00am | Report comment
it doesn’t get any better. the crusaders from wales are in trouble.
November 5th 2010 @ 8:18am
Ex-pat leaguie said | November 5th 2010 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Dave, we dont need this old story….please back-up these claims
November 5th 2010 @ 8:25am
Ex-pat leaguie said | November 5th 2010 @ 8:25am | Report comment
As a born and bred Yorkshiremen (now living in Melbourne) whilst i think there are major problems with the English game, i dont not believe its all doom and gloom.
As for the County of origin game, it has failed numerous times in the past and there is no desire from the fans to see it. it wont work.
RL has had some positives in recent times, but i believe it is the grassroots that have been lost. look at Hull for example, once a proud RL town, you now see more Football (soccer) shirts then you do either Hull RL team.
Rugby Union has made a resurgence in the North of the country, and that to an extend as slowed RL growth in our heartland. whilst RL and RU do not have the animoisity that exists in this country, many RL men i know have been swayed over to RU due to its social aspects and ameatueur ideals that still abound. whilst my friends are still RL men, they no longer support the game with the same heart.
I believe expansion of RL in England has failed. London is a mess. South Wales was a disppaointed, though Wrexham are doing well. Consolidate teams around the heartland counties- and the game will thrive again.
I fear the 4 nations will lead to years of being beaten by southern hemisphere teams. this will hurt English RL as no one likes losing.
RL is in our blood up north, but i do fear that less and less people of that blood running through their vains.
November 5th 2010 @ 9:25am
Marcel Proust said | November 5th 2010 @ 9:25am | Report comment
You have a point.
I too am a northerner ( just about ).
At least none of our players in England has got into trouble with a dog.