IRB must use club rugby to expand
By kingplaymaker, 12 Nov 2010 kingplaymaker is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- International Rugby Board, IRB, John O’Neill, Martyn Thomas, Rugby Union, Six Nations, Super 15, Tri Nations
The IRB is a jolly club where some old amateurs of the game can go to earn a good living, travel the world a little and watch some of their favourite sport, rugby.
These men are doubtless good fellows at heart, charming comrades for a beer and should they be English, which a lot of them are, cheery reminiscences over thatched cottages may ensue and a raised glass to the success of Britain in keeping out of the Euro will be easily had.
But perhaps it has not dawned yet everywhere in the rugby world that the game is now professional. This means things like money, efficiency, performance and accountability.
When summoning an image of Will Carling’s old codgers, one that will be found identical to the IRB board today, such ideas do not spring easily to mind. Is the IRB accountable, professional?
How many of these men became involved in rugby during its amateur days, and how many are children of the professional era? Given there is seldom a hair of anything less than purest grey hair in sight at a meeting of the IRB, it is obviously the former.
This warm, nostalgic state of affairs is all very well and good except for one problem: some people in the game may actually want to expand it. Do the IRB have the same desire?
Would they really wish to bring into being a world in which Canada could defeat England, or Romania thrash Scotland?
This is a question that will be left in abeyance for the moment, but the sight of Martyn Thomas, the arch-reactionary RFU management chairman, involved in awarding the next two World Cups should have sent shivers down the spine of anyone interested in rugby becoming a global game.
In effect, there has been no expansion whatsoever of rugby since it turned professional.
The usual argument to the contrary proposed, that teams like Tonga are more competitive than they used to be, is the result instead of the players from these smaller rugby countries plying their trade professionally for clubs in Europe and the Super 14 and hence becoming better at the game. Within countries outside the Six Nations and Tri-Nations, there has been zero expansion.
It should all be straightforward to an ambitious, high-quality body charged with expanding the sport. In Georgia, Romania, Russia, Canada and Japan there is already a very good base on which to build interest further.
The IRB assumes the only way to do this is through the international representative game, but is that the case?
When Rugby league wishes to expand, they create and fund clubs in new countries and persuade the existing clubs to integrate them into their competitions. Witness the founding of league clubs in Wales and France in the northern hemisphere, and New Zealand in the southern hemisphere.
Why can’t the IRB do exactly the same: create and fund clubs in Tokyo, Buenos Aires and Vancouver and persuade SANZAR to accept them into the Super 14, and likewise ask the Magner’s league to integrate clubs from Bucharest, Tbilisi and Moscow.
Obviously money would be needed to make these teams competitive, but the IRB have an awful lot of this, and they spend it on precious little else besides expanding their already fulsome bellies.
I would suggest basing such clubs around the national teams of each country, with a number of high quality players from elsewhere brought in to increase overall strength. Even if this is not possible, teams consisting of mainly foreign players can still achieve their goal.
That is to provide high quality rugby live and on television around the year in developing rubgy countries.
There is considerable interest in the game in Georgia, or Japan, but it is dormant and unexploited.
Then the IRB themselves must be accountable, and should receive a high level of media scrutiny, with their expansion plans called to account and hauled before inspection in the same way as David Gallop and the NRL are. Members should not be chosen because solely because they have histories as players, but on account of their professional ability in what is essentially a business.
Entry into the Olympic Games should not be assumed to work the kind of magic that transforms rugby into a rival of football in the blink of an eye, nor should the IRB leave the clubs to do the work.
When John O’Neill proposes taking the Super tournament to Tokyo, he should be acting on the IRB’s instigation. Instead they are nowhere to be seen. They need not stand aloof, they can work with the clubs should they wish.
If it is in the clubs interest, they will accept IRB ideas.
The club game is if anything a better way to expand a sport, as it runs around the year, whereas internationals are more occasional and in a way rely on the strength of the tier immediately below in any case.
Then there is the generation of countries beyond those I have mentioned to consider. What are the IRB doing to develop the game in Spain, Portugal, Brazil, countries where it has a small foothold?
But do the IRB really want the game to grow? Wouldn’t it be nice to keep the sport one where Scotland can beat someone occasionally, and England are still in the hunt?
Given the huge British Isles presence in the IRB and its amateur nature, the answer might be worrying.
Nonetheless the challenge remains.
The IRB could turn the game global within a decade, or we might still be watching the same little world of ten nations with all its too familiar dramas and tribulations for many years to come.
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November 12th 2010 @ 5:12am
allblackfan said | November 12th 2010 @ 5:12am | Report comment
The game is growing. But you have to grow it from the bottom up to ensure a strong foundation (like building a house).
November 12th 2010 @ 5:20am
Darwin Stubbie said | November 12th 2010 @ 5:20am | Report comment
“founding of league clubs in Wales and France in the northern hemisphere, and New Zealand in the southern hemisphere”… hmmm – now anyone who knows anything about the NRL or Super League will tell you that the majority of the teams in these respective competitions are based either on the eastern seaboard of Australia or in the north of England … the flight across the Tasman is approx 3hrs, trips to Wales / France similar ….
now Super rugby is based in Aust / NZ / SA … and you say create and fund clubs in Tokyo, Buenos Aires and Vancouver and persuade SANZAR to accept them into the Super 14 ? – have you not thought of travel times and time zones … it’s not practical
November 12th 2010 @ 8:51am
sheek said | November 12th 2010 @ 8:51am | Report comment
With all due respect,
I agree with Darwin Stubbie that the author has lost his practical perspective.
The current SANZAR teams have enough trouble with traveling back & forth across the southern hemisphere, without having to also cross into the northern hemisphere.
Argentina will eventually join SANZAR (SANZAAR) for both tests & provincials, which will add to the travel. But while this is still manageable, criss-crossing the equator would be ridiculous. The Pacific Rim is a massive area of the earth.
The IRB needs to develop countries, not clubs. Let the countries invest in their own national club comps. But you’re right about one thing – the IRB don’t want a world where Canada can beat England, or Romania can beat Scotland. The British nations are struggling enough as it is…..
November 12th 2010 @ 9:10am
Darwin Stubbie said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Is that twice in a week
November 12th 2010 @ 11:55am
sheek said | November 12th 2010 @ 11:55am | Report comment
DS,
I’m sure we’ll return to type soon…..!
November 12th 2010 @ 8:58am
andrew g said | November 12th 2010 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Darwin you are spot on. The logistics of expanding the game as spoken about are impossible.
Is the game really growing, from my understanding not really.
Is there a big enough demand for the game to go “global” never. This is pie in the sky thinking Kingplaymaker. Rugby is not a game like soccer, tennis golf that appeals to the mass market.
And were is the money to do this expansion going to come from????
November 12th 2010 @ 9:15am
saliosi said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:15am | Report comment
The problem is that the game is growing so rapidly that the IRB and their merry men in suits don’t know what to do, of course they do want it to expand because it will eventually mean more money but they have to be careful because heaven forbid that one day when their in their seventies and eighties that wales or england will have to travel to bucharest ot tiblissi in order to qualify for a world cup, how do they explain that to the queen and the head boy at harrow school.
November 12th 2010 @ 8:59am
kingplaymaker said | November 12th 2010 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Darwin and Sheek I don’t think the globe in so difficult to traverse: South Africa is hardly on New Zealand’s doorstep for example, and yet they play in the Super 14 with them.
Tokyo in fact is far more convenient for international matches than South Africa as it is in a more similar time zone.
I think it is very difficult to develop rugby at international level. Tests are rare and it takes a long time before a team can be competitive. In order to do this, the second tier must be developed, and it is easier to do this by importing a high quality team than hoping the dismal local competitions will alight interest.
If every week for much of the year Moscow had a top quality club team to watch, that was well-promoted, it is far more likely a fan base would develop and player numbers increase than by national team being destoyed in their three matches every four years at the World Cup.
Andrew the IRB receives £100 million every four years from the World Cup for starters.
November 12th 2010 @ 9:19am
Darwin Stubbie said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:19am | Report comment
“I don’t think the globe in so difficult to traverse”- probably because you’ll not be the one doing it on a regular basis … what’s the flight time / time zones crossed – Vancouver to Akld / Sydney of Jo’berg ?? …
.. I’m not a fan of expanding Super rugby further for the hell of it – the recent expansion is nothing more than the same old idea to get the same level of $ from the broadcasters .. but I’m sure that at some stage, most likely at the end of this 5 year deal, it will go 6 / 6 / 6 SA want a 6th team so it will mean NZ and Aust will have to follow – which will mean closed conferences (to cut down the # games and ringfence the important NPC and CC) … what I’d do is get an islands team into the NZ conference based in Sth Akld – but with a couple of games each year up in the islands and an Asian team in Aust … based say in HK – and get them to play their away Aussie games in Nthn Aust – Cairns / Darwin or even schedule one in Singapore …
November 12th 2010 @ 9:45am
jeremy said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:45am | Report comment
what I’d do is get an islands team into the NZ conference based in Sth Akld
This is possibly the best Super recommendation that I’ve heard. The benefits to a South Auckland-based team, especially one with a South Pacific flavour, would be innumerable.
· Rotate some of the games through Fiji, Samoa etc where possible, bringing money to the Pacific Island unions.
· Help offset this ongoing perception that NZ leeches off the Pacific Islands.
· Provide young South Aucklanders a choice of oval-ball codes
· Create a feeder system for South Auckland schools that in turn boosts their performance in the schoolboy comps.
· Encourage local sponsorship from local businesses, a la the Mad Butcher and the Warriors
· Create a reason for a proper South Auckland stadium that isn’t Mount Smart.
November 12th 2010 @ 9:57am
Darwin Stubbie said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Exactly – I was thinking Manukau would be the place – haven’t they got a stadium set up there (with a velodrom) which could be further developed … rotating games to the islands would be easy – say a couple a year .. it wouldn’t be hard to organise and the flight times aren’t a problem …
November 12th 2010 @ 11:58am
Jason said | November 12th 2010 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Permit me to play advocatus diaboli:
Playing games in the Pacific Islands makes no money, for anyone. The Pacific Islands prefer to stage Tests, etc in nations and profit from the sharing of substantial gate revenue. The residents may love the idea, but the unions stand to gain nothing from it.
If anything it would feed the incorrect perception that New Zealand steals talent from the Pacific Islands. The ignorant would assert that players playing for such a club must play for the Pacific Islands..
I don’t understand the third point. Young South Aucklanders already have a choice of codes.
The fourth point is backwards in its application. Kids aren’t going to be playing Super Rugby and then heading off to school to try and beat Kelston.
Point five: I don’t see the connection with benefiting or growing Island rugby.
Point six: Economic white elephant.
November 12th 2010 @ 12:23pm
Working Class Rugger said | November 12th 2010 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Jason
First of all I get the distinct impression that Sth Auckland has a significant Islanerd population.
I think you are mis reading what has been said a little bit. Granted I agree with the fact that it is unlikely playing games would be profitable in the Islands but I think you haven’t proper disgested the suggestions. Breaking it down to numbers
1. Agree – unlikely to be profitable but there exists the argument the simple fact that the PI’s would have a team to collecitvely back would make it worhtwhile.
2. That perception will continue till day dot. NZ is a major immigtation hub for the PI’s and naturally some will eventually represent the AB’s. Regardless of this having a front for some sort of local porfessional PI Rugby is worthy of consideration.
3. It would give young South Aucklanders of PI decent another pathway into professional Rugby. As I said from what I can gather there is a significant PI population there. It’s about pathways.
4. Schoolboys won’t be playing SR then going back to schools Rugby. What was said and its actually pretty clear is that the local schools could provide a talent pool through a feeder system into a PI team. Many of these schools could also host prospective talent from the Islands brought in to play for such a squad.
5. If any monies made were distributed to PI Rugby or such an organisation set up Academies in the Islands and establish clear pathways and heroes they can see regualrly and identify with that is how it would help PI Rugby.
6.The Warriors are based in the same area. Are they a White elephant? Plus, there could be a push to get the IRB on board to assist the growth of such a squad.
November 12th 2010 @ 12:29pm
Dave said | November 12th 2010 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
the warriors are based in penrose which is not south auckland. manukau is the heart of south auckland which included suburbs such as mangere, otara, papateotoe, otahuhu, manurewa, wiri and others.
November 12th 2010 @ 12:16pm
Dave said | November 12th 2010 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
many south auckland schools have been playing in the top auckland 1st XV divisions in the last ten years and have seen many playing itm and super rugby.
November 12th 2010 @ 1:10pm
kingplaymaker said | November 12th 2010 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
I agree another team should be based in Auckland as it has the largest population by some distance of any city in New Zealand, and many players can be drawn up who these days go to league.
Of course it could be based on Pacific Islanders, it probably wouldn’t make much difference if it were or not.
November 12th 2010 @ 2:07pm
Working Class Rugger said | November 12th 2010 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Dave
I assumed that they were considering Jeremy had as point number 6 ‘Create a reason for a proper South Auckland stadium that isn’t Mount Smart.’.
November 12th 2010 @ 2:26pm
Dave said | November 12th 2010 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
i think auckland can still have another two unions (south and west auckland) if they wanted but all that is now only a dream since rugby went professional. when north shoe clubs broke away from auckland to form north harbours in the 80′s there also suggestion that west and south auckland can do it as well with many schools and clubs that can support it but aru put a stop to it. south auckland rugby clubs are too far from eden park and have to travel to take on many teams based in central and west auckland. the same for the south auckland clubs who are also too far from pukekohe the home of counties manukau.
there are huge samoan, tongan and fijian rugby competitions based in south auckland that runs after the club season which is also sanction by the aru with over 100 teams playing from august to december. this is the mani reason for the south auckland schools doing really well in the auckland 1a championship.
November 15th 2010 @ 12:10pm
Symo said | November 15th 2010 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
If by “south Auckland schools” you mean Kings College…
Lets be honest Otahuhu College is a bottom Feeder and while St Kents is technically in Manukau I’d say it’s more of an Eastern Bays school. Especially considering its clientelle.
Basically that leaves us with Kelston. Awesome.
November 12th 2010 @ 9:21am
simon said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Interesting article about further rugby development in Georgia
http://www.isria.com/pages/11_November_2010_95.php
November 12th 2010 @ 9:30am
Jason said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:30am | Report comment
I hate to burst your bubble here, but the IRB is made up of representatives from its member unions. It’s not an old English club where they sit around recounting the glory days of the Empire and swilling gin.
For example: The IRB Council is made up of the following; the chairman is French, the vice chairman is English, the others are; Africa (CAR), Abdelaziz Bougja; Argentina, Porfirio Carreras; Asia (ARFU), Noboru Mashimo; Australia, Peter McGrath & John O’Neill; Canada, Chris Le Fevre; England, Martyn Thomas & Jonathan Dance; Europe (FIRA-AER), Raul Martins; France, Pierre Camou & Jacques Laurans; Ireland, Pat Whelan & Peter Boyle; Italy, Giancarlo Dondi; Japan, Ichiro Kono; New Zealand, Graham Mourie & Steve Tew; NACRA (North America and Caribbean Rugby Association), Pearse Higgins; Oceania (FORU), Harry Schuster; Scotland, Bill Nolan & John Jeffrey; South Africa: Oregan Hoskins & Johan Prinsloo; South America (CONSUR), Ricardo Paganini; Wales, David Pickering & Gerald Davies.
Some of them are actively involved in the running of professional unions. They are the same people who were involved in rugby when it became professional.
The IRB does spend an inordinate amount of money developing the game around the world. It is not feasible to ensure that tiny pacific nations can play in major competitions; they don’t have the economic ability to do so. They don’t have the infrastructure. It would simply be a way to flush good money after bad down the toilet.
November 12th 2010 @ 9:32am
soapit said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:32am | Report comment
much more practical to go to japan then to argentina. just that arg is so much closer in terms of ability to compete.
however dont get caught up in the author specific ideas. they were really a small part of the article and not his point. he’s saying that the irb should be pushing this expansion and developing leagues in these place (or whatever they decide to do) and not leave it up to national bodies or groups of unions (sanzar) to push things along. i agree, not sure that they arent already doing it a bit tho.
November 12th 2010 @ 9:41am
King of the Gorgonites said | November 12th 2010 @ 9:41am | Report comment
KPM,
You are way off the mark.
Your article is bitter and based on no facts. where can you back up these pie in the sky accusations that the IRB is not promoting or spreading the game?
watch a program like total rugby and you will see all the work the IRB is doing to spread the game. the IRB has ploughed hundreds on millions into global development.
who is it that funbds;
the pacfic nations cup?
the churchill cup in north america?
the americas cup in south america?
the annual tournament in romania containing tier two countries?
the answer is the irb. they are the ones driving global expansion
that stakeholders that should be accountable are the individual unions. it was the ARU that pulled out of the pacfic nations cup, to save money. that was a cruel blow to the PI’s.
you accuse the IRB of not spreading the game through the WC. you are aware the 2019 WC will be in Japan?
2015 in England is about making as much money as possible so that it can be ploughed back into global expansion.
if you are going to right such nonsense, please give it some substance.
November 12th 2010 @ 11:18am
Rugby No.1! said | November 12th 2010 @ 11:18am | Report comment
kog
100% agree IRB is already doing everything in it’s power to make rugby global, now if only league had such forward thinking as the IRB oh well here to real rugby!!!!.
November 12th 2010 @ 10:40am
Working Class Rugger said | November 12th 2010 @ 10:40am | Report comment
I think I understand the point of the article but the delivery may have been a little off. The IRB should be looking to back or establish competition around the world. They should be working with Argentina to contribute further to SANZA(A)R competition in terms of Super Rugby. Backing the College Premier League in the United States, pointing the way forward for the FER (Spain) in the right direction regarding the Iberian Superliga (SIR) , building on the RPRL and the Ukrainian PRL (surprisingly successful in its first season), investigating the viability of the proposed Continetal Rugby League (Kazakstan, Georgia, Romania, Ltihuania, Moldova) and a combined Dutch and Belgian league and encouraginf SA to engage further with Kenya and (if things begin to show improvement) Zimbabwe via the Vodacom Cup. As well as looking to expand the A5Ns and grassroots in Aisa.
Regarding the travel issues adding more teams to Super Rugby. First of all I expect the conferences to move toward at least a 6/6/6 format by the next deal. Basically Port Elizabeth, Western Sydney and I like the PI team in Sth Auckland idea. But I would also like to see a Argentine conference enter aswell. This would require a further split in SR. Alongside the National conference perhaps it could be split further into East and West. East – Aus and NZ. West – SA and Arg. Outside of derby games the croos conference games would only be played within the East/West split .i.e. Aus teams would only play NZ teams and SA teams play Argentine teams. Only in the finals would the need to cross greater distances and timezones would come into effect.
November 12th 2010 @ 10:43am
soapit said | November 12th 2010 @ 10:43am | Report comment
would only support western sydney coming in if they changed the name of the waratahs.
nsw waratahs are meant to be the rep side for the state and to have them playing against other “new south welshmen” would be no good at all. you could still have them as a rep team chosen from the 2 teams.
November 12th 2010 @ 11:08am
Darwin Stubbie said | November 12th 2010 @ 11:08am | Report comment
if it expands further into 6/6/6 and anything extra – there won’t be cross conference games … neither the NZRFU or SAFU will scarifice their domestic competition windows …
in all seriousness Australia should be careful here – they couldn’t realistically support and supply a 6th team – but with closed conferences that lack of depth will get masked somewhat – but it will impact on the quality of football – the reason the Wallabies have been able to maintain there position in the top 3 teams in the world is due to their regular exposure to NZ and SA rugby … if this is reduced via closed conferences – their international standing may also be effected
November 12th 2010 @ 4:52pm
DrGonzo said | November 12th 2010 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
Good point re the wallabies benefiting from regular exposure to SA & NZ provinces, I had never considered that before. I don’t see where another Australian Super team could be based, Waratahs crowds have been down recently and it was not that long ago that NSWRU was being bailed out by the ARU, I have never seen seen Western Sydney as being viable, it would only further weaken the Waratahs support.