GWS Giants just the tip of the iceberg
Roar Rookie By jono52795, 18 Nov 2010 jono52795 is a Roar Rookie
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For all the talk about the new Greater Western Sydney AFL club, no one has really commented on the club’s potential to grow Australian football in a once foreign land.
Indeed the launch of the club name and jumper on Tuesday night was just the beginning. More is to come. No matter how anti-AFL you might be, this football club is not going to fall down and die in a few short years. The AFL has spent too much money, has worked too hard in such a short space of time to allow that to happen.
Indeed, the road will be tough. The club will struggle at times. But when it comes to the Greater Western Sydney Giants, there is more to it than just the first five or 10 years.
The club needs to gain a foothold in the area, connect with the community, and above all else, show off the wonderful game of Australian football to the young children, the future generation of Australian sport.
The AFL or GWS Giants FC are not interested in stealing supporters from rugby league or rival codes. It is not interested in killing off rival clubs or stealing a community from rugby league’s jaws.
The GWS Giants will appeal to the young, under 18 boys and girls, who for the first time, will have a real, genuine choice in regards to their preferred code.
The current, experienced crop of aging Australian sporting fans must realise that GWS are a club for the future, not for the present.
Rugby league die-hards and Daily Telegraph ‘journalists’ can tease the living daylights out of the AFL as much as they want, but the time for change is coming.
For too long Australian football has been caught, stuck in the ghosts of its Victorian, tribal past.
Now is the time when it truly broadens its wings and offers its product to a new crop of sporting fans, with a real choice to make. Some people ask why the supposed sporting capital of the world, Melbourne, is regarded as so.
AFL may have religion-like status in the southern capital, but the city’s diversity and embracement of other codes is evident, never more so than when the Melbourne Victory achieve the highest crowds in the A-League, when the Melbourne Storm average crowds similar to that of the suburban Sydney NRL club in a dead home and away season.
Here’s hoping that the people of Western Sydney can do something similar.
The GWS Giants are a club to be reckoned with. Australian football is a code that is set to take on its final frontier. Opposition from rival codes and a stifled media is not what will decide its fate. Only the people, and future participants in the Australian sporting scene will decide.
To plagiarise a famous quote from Neil Armstrong: “That’s one small step for Australia, one Giant leap for Australian football.”
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November 18th 2010 @ 6:38am
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 6:38am | Report comment
You’ve touched on a quite a few good points in this article. Nice ending.
The Melb Rebels are marching into Australian football heartland, Melb Storm have been invaders in Melbourne for a decade and still have not produced a born and bred Victorian player as RL is a minority sport in Victoria.
GWS already has several NSW born players on their young list.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:23am
Jay said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:23am | Report comment
The Victorian players are on their way mate..
November 18th 2010 @ 8:25am
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:25am | Report comment
and so’s Christmas
Storm started in 1998?, GWS already have NSW born players on their list.
November 18th 2010 @ 9:02am
Sam H said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:02am | Report comment
AFL has been played in NSW since before rugby league existed. Having a few NSW born blokes on a ‘list’ for a team that won’t play for another 18 months – particularly given that the ‘list’ presumably includes the name of at least one NSW-born bloke who has never played the game in his life – isn’t exactly in extraordinary achievement.
November 18th 2010 @ 10:28am
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Rugby has been in Melbourne for 100 years, where are the Vic born players in the Rebels?
The point its still a minor sport even if it has had a presence for a period of time. The AFL is developing the code more seriously now in Western Sydney. No doubt he rugby codes would like to be in a similiar position in Melbourne.
Note the ARL and News Ltd have been pumoping money into Victoria for sometime and are yet to reap an NRL player.
It does not happen overnight and there are degress of presence of a sport in a certain place.
GWS is an aspirational venture and generational in nature.
November 18th 2010 @ 11:41am
Sam H said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:41am | Report comment
What have the Rebels got to do with the Storm? Let me know when you get tired from lugging those goalposts around. (FYI, I’m no union nut, but there have been a number of Wallabies from Melbourne over the years).
The point is your boasting about the home-grown segment of the Storm’s squad v the Giants is hollow at best.There are a number of true Melbourne juniors in the Storm’s system. They’ve been around a touch over 10 years. There are a number of NSW juniors (including a guy who hasn’t played a game of Aussie rules before) on the GWS list. That’s on the back of almost 30 years of elite AFL presence in Sydney, and over a century of the game being played at a decent level in the city and state. Your argument stinks.
November 18th 2010 @ 11:46am
rugbyfuture said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:46am | Report comment
At other clubs, because they’re good
captain of the wallabies is victorian born…
so is the coach of the queensland reds….
The rebels and the VRU also havea heavily supported academy full of Victorian players, as well as the australian schoolboys team having 4 victorians last year.
November 18th 2010 @ 12:18pm
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Sam/Rugbyfuture,
The point is it takes time to establish a sport. Some here are commenting that AFL has been around for years in Sydney/NSW, etc I’m merely pointing out that both rugby codes can hardly claim much progress in comparison to the AFL.
Name other Vic players in current rugby? There is the odd one like Ewen McKenzie, Rocky Elsom (i think) was born in Vic but did not play most of his junior-senior rugby in Vic.
There are some 70 players from NSW & QLD in the AFL. That is not a boast, just a fact.
The second AFL team in Sydney/NSW is about taking the code to the next level in terms of partcipation, fans,etc.
November 18th 2010 @ 1:06pm
Jiggles said | November 18th 2010 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
Hi Red,
I can’t speak for Rugby League but Rugby Union has a proud but niche history in Victoria. The first Victorian to play for the Wallabies was Sir Weary Dunlop in the late 1930’s after world war 2.
In recent times, Nic Styles, Ewen McKensize, Rocky Eslom, Loydd Johansson are all born and bred Victorians who spent their formative years down south before moving north in their late teens. The main reason for the move is always the more professional structures in QLD and NSW.
Digby Ioane moved up to Brisbane in his late teens to gain more exposure, but speaking with the young bloke he still considers himself a Victorian, with all his family still based in Melbourne. Christian Lealiifano is another of the best prospects from Victoria, he has been a stand out for the Brumbies this year.
There are a fair few squad members at the Reds who are also Victorians, mainly of Islander extract.
I think it’s pretty handy to remember that the Victorian Rugby is only turning professional with the advent of the Rebels. So it’s a testament to the small rugby population of Melbourne that they can produce players of this caliber without the resources of their northern state union cousins.
November 18th 2010 @ 7:58pm
mick h said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
the majority of the swans are still imports big deal anyway people move around these days gareth widdop for the storm moved to victoria from england as a teenager he came through the vrl.redb afl was bigger in western syd when plugger was playing for the swans the game has declined afl is a minor sport in sydney as they count aus kick participants as official registered players the afl employ great accountants but won’t fool the people of the west.
November 18th 2010 @ 10:34am
Jay said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:34am | Report comment
GWS is sydney’s second team and i suspect a fair portion of the NSW born players are from the Rivernia/Wagga where AFL is pretty popular.
If you could entertain me – how long did it take the Swans to produce a Sydney born a bred player?
November 18th 2010 @ 10:39am
Sports Writer said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Great city that Wagga by the way.
I reckon with this new team give it a few years and we will start seeing more Sydney born AFL players.
Still won’t be comparable to Wagga but…great city
November 18th 2010 @ 10:53am
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:53am | Report comment
There are some from the Sydney system coming through as well.
Regardless, fans of rugby league can hardly put any requirement of local content in their expansion team or else they would fail miserably on that score.
November 18th 2010 @ 1:32pm
JamesP said | November 18th 2010 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Not sure about the Swans by St Kilda Saints superstar and 2010 Norm Smith Medallist Lenny Hayes was born and bred in Sydney. GWS and the new Swans Academy will ensure that there are more to follow
November 18th 2010 @ 6:07pm
The Visitor said | November 18th 2010 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Greg Stafford, debuted round 4 1993. Not sure if he was first though.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:36am
Aka said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:36am | Report comment
You don’t need to have played AFL very long at all to make it at the elite level though. You just need to be an great athlete, and they are born and bred everywhere.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:05pm
hutch said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
it is a lot to easier to make it to the top in afl than it is in rugby league. train up any half good athlete who has good hand eye coordination and has kicked a ball before and you are almost there. even if you dont have the highest fitness levels, with 100 plus internchanges per game this can be worked around.
November 19th 2010 @ 2:05pm
Sports Writer said | November 19th 2010 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
That’s stupid.
I have known plenty of great footballers that have killed it in great leagues and even in the VFL and have looked out of sorts in the AFL.
In NRL you don’t even need to train them up…they just need to be heavy, able to run and hold the ball.
Comparing the sports is ridiculous
November 22nd 2010 @ 10:41am
hutch said | November 22nd 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
haha, you need to change your name from sports writer to victorian sports writer if thats what you really think. nrl players range from 75kgs to 125kgs, saying they need to be heavy shows how ignorant you are. the fact is, amateur gaelic footballers, basketballers and canadian rugby union players have made it to the top in afl very quickly after converting, and 2 of the 3 highest players in afl history are rugby league players who will soon play the top grade despite never having played the gane as a junior. it is a simple sport with a limited skill set where good athletes can adapt to compete in the top grade!
November 22nd 2010 @ 9:32pm
Kermit is a frog said | November 22nd 2010 @ 9:32pm | Report comment
Guess what – all AFL players were once upon a time amateur.
Of the code switchers, there’s been stuff all ‘successes’, let alone ‘overnight’. Most the ‘domestic’ code switchers (eg basketball) have played footy along the way too.
However, if AFL coaches couldn’t convert an elite talented athlete familiar with basketball and soccer into a half decent footy player after 2 pre-seasons – - then, the coaches wouldn’t deserve the title (or paypacket).
November 18th 2010 @ 7:16am
Jammy said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:16am | Report comment
A lot of Sheedy’s swill, Demetriou’s spin and the sycophant media’s oily musings seem to imply that the Sydney Swans have done nothing to promote the code out in the ‘final frontier’. Its a little disrespectful. Not just to the swans but the people of Sydney, be it the north east south or ‘greater west’.
November 18th 2010 @ 7:35am
mds1970 said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:35am | Report comment
Not at all. The Swans have been very successful, and have built up a significant fan base. But any study of the Swans’ supporter base you will find will tell you the majority come from the North Shore and Eastern suburbs. But the Greater West is a very different demographic, and the Swans haven’t been as successful there.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:59am
Ken said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:59am | Report comment
I guess the question here is do the Swans supporter base come from that area because that is who the Swans are marketed to or is it just where the interest has been?
The term ‘significant fan base’ is all about definitions really, they have a solid core of supporters that go to their games and they must be happy with that (I know most NRL clubs would be happy with their average crowds). You only have to look at the ratings though to see that this is really the extent of their popularity. Even in the apparent Eastern suburbs and North Shore enclaves there is no buzz about AFL or the Swans (I’m in upper North Shore myself and don’t personally know anyone who follows them).
November 18th 2010 @ 7:22am
Ken said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:22am | Report comment
‘The GWS Giants will appeal to the young, under 18 boys and girls, who for the first time, will have a real, genuine choice in regards to their preferred code.’
You’re not from Sydney are you? The amount of money that has been spent by the AFL trying to win the minds of young people in Sydney over the last 10-15 years is astronomical, especially compared to the sport’s popularity here. They get out to all the school’s – giving away their free footballs and Auskick programmes, they are all over TV, mainstream FM radio plays live games – all this despite the fact that the ratings are abysmal.
The implication of your article is that this is the start of a campaign to convert Sydney to AFL, it’s not – they’ve been going like this for a long time – the reason there is a opinion this will be a black hole is because it’s being built despite a lack of progress, not because of it.
November 18th 2010 @ 7:28am
Elbusto said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:28am | Report comment
I agree. It was a ridiculous comment. Kids in Western Sydney have had ample choice for decades between League Union and Football. To say they have a ‘genuine choice’ now just because the AFL have introduced a new Team there is nonsense.
Mind you there is an awful lot of nonsense being espoused at the moment.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:27am
Ken said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:27am | Report comment
All true, there has always been plenty of choice here even before AFL. Going further though, I was actually saying that AFL has also been available here for a while now. More than just available actually, it has been promoted in a hugely expansive (and expensive) campaign over a long period of time. I actually know the Sydney Swans theme song despite only watching a handful of AFL games in my life and I’m not sure that any of them actually involved the Swans!
November 18th 2010 @ 8:28am
Emric said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:28am | Report comment
What the writer is trying to say is – The AFL is prepared to accept the fact that converting Sydney is a long term project aimed at convincing the children of die hard league fans of the superiority of AFL over League.
Good luck with that.
November 18th 2010 @ 12:54pm
TCunbeliever said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Emric.. No.
The AFL is not trying to convince anyone of the superiority of Football over League. They are trying to tap into the millions of people in the area who aren’t really engaged with either sport.. And there’s no reason why people can’t enjoy both sports either.
November 18th 2010 @ 2:14pm
jono52795 said | November 18th 2010 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Precisely. This is a huge opportunity for the AFL, and a chance to show once and for all, which code is superior.
November 18th 2010 @ 2:48pm
Ben said | November 18th 2010 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
And if the AFL fails will you accept that League is “superior”?
November 18th 2010 @ 3:44pm
jono52795 said | November 18th 2010 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Well, it depends on your definition of “superior.” I’ll always believe AFL is a better live spectacle than Rugby League and fans get their money’s worth at just about every AFL game, but if it does fail than I’ll admit Rugby League is “superior” to AFL in Western Sydney.
Dont think GWS will fail though!
November 18th 2010 @ 7:47am
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:47am | Report comment
“The amount of money that has been spent by the AFL trying to win the minds of young people in Sydney over the last 10-15 years is astronomical”
Really, care to back that up with facts.
If you think the money to date is ‘astronomical’ then your going to need to a new word to describe the $120M over 10 years being spent by the AFL on Western Sydney from hereon.
“They get out to all the school’s – giving away their free footballs and Auskick programmes, they are all over TV, mainstream FM radio plays live games – all this despite the fact that the ratings are abysmal.”
I think you’ll find the AFL ramped up its spending/promotion in Western Sydney only in the last 3-4 years.
The TV ratings for the AFL GF in Sydney were double that of the NRL GF ratings in Melbourne. The crowds for the AFL in Sydney dwarf most individual NRL clubs in Sydney and are double that of Storm in Melbourne.
Auskick continues to be a successful program , its has short and long term objectives. The rugby codes are so far behind in Melbourne by comparison its not funny.
Any such talk needs to be balanced against what the rugby codes are achieving/not acheiving in Melbourne.
November 18th 2010 @ 9:04am
punter said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Believe the spin all you want. But much to my displeasure, Sydney is a Rugby League town, nothing to do with the media being anti-AFL. Most football fans I know, including myself follow a Rugby League side. Most AFL fans I know of in Sydney comes from the southern states, there are very few born & bred Sydney people who follow the Swans with any knowledge.
Most people in Sydney could tell you who plays fullback for their Rugby League team, most would struggle to tell you who plays fullback in the Swans or that the position even exist in the Australian game. This is despite the huge media on the game in Sydney, totally unwarranted for the following the game has.
November 18th 2010 @ 9:47am
Ben said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Don’t count out the Paddington demographic, they’re Sydney born and bred and are “loud and proud” Swans supporters!
November 18th 2010 @ 10:17am
Anthony said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:17am | Report comment
If most Sydney people follow rugby league then they are not interested in actually attending NRL games. This is the standard for sport popularity everywhere in the world. It must be a Sydney thing, because in Qld the NRL attendances are quite good. But to suggest that everyone in Sydney is mad about League is a bit hard to swallow when the attendances are so pathetic! A “world” city of 5 mill? Oh, please!
As for the money the AFL has put into football in Sydney – there has been a significant increase in participation in all junior levels of Aussie Rules as a result. Not as big as soccer, of course – but soccer can hardly boast of their attendances. What was the average for HAL last week….5,000?
All the derision by NRL supporters, officials & media is also a Sydney thing. Didn’t happen with the Storm, or Heart, or Rebels. Neither did it happen in Adelaide when we had a league team.
And the other thing which shows the insecurity of Sydney league people is their continual suggestion that Aussie Rules is a Victorian game. I am a proud South Aussie, & our football clubs are much older than anything Sydney has.
November 18th 2010 @ 10:26am
Ben said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
The Crows go back to antiquity!
November 18th 2010 @ 6:17pm
The Visitor said | November 18th 2010 @ 6:17pm | Report comment
Port Adelaide Magpies certainly do. 1870, that certanly IS antiquity.
November 18th 2010 @ 10:29am
The Phantom said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:29am | Report comment
I think Sydney Uni Rugby Club might disagree about that
November 18th 2010 @ 11:53am
rugbyfuture said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:53am | Report comment
so would balmain if you count their lineage, newington, kings
and not to mention the formation of the NSWRU.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:36pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
Hear Hear….From rugby union supporters as well.
November 18th 2010 @ 9:23am
Ken said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Redb – I’m not interested in trawling through the numbers, you’ll just have to take (or not) my anecdotal experience that AFL, starting from my later school days in the 90′s, really ramped up the advertising and promotions here and has since then maintained a campaign way out of kilter with their return to attract support especially amongst the kids. I don’t think this is really a controvesial statement – and even if they increase it some more it still doesn’t change the fact. The choice has been available for a long time
I don’t think the League in Melbourne comparisons are really very germane to the discussions here. In any case I won’t argue that AFL spends far more on promoting it’s game in Sydney than League does in Melbourne. There are some simple reasons for that (i.e. available money) and some more complex ones (e.g. geography of it’s heartlands). I would say though that considering this difference (and that the Swans have been around longer than the Storm) that the return in supporter interest they’ve received isn’t as much as your numbers imply.
League is doing alright in Melbourne though, regardless of low media profile and broken TV committments. The Storm have survived this years problems better than most expected and their under 20′s team has a healthy contigent of Victorian locals.
‘The TV ratings for the AFL GF in Sydney were double that of the NRL GF ratings in Melbourne’ – well there were 2 of them!
November 18th 2010 @ 12:04pm
clipper said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
I think Redb was referring to the 2nd AFL GF which drew approx. 400k in Sydney the same weekend the NRL GF drew approx. 200k in Melbourne. But I would agree that it is harder to find AFL followers out in Western Sydney, whereas around the inner city area I would know more people that follow AFL than league, and only a couple of them are Victorian.
November 18th 2010 @ 12:12pm
Jeff said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
The T.V ratings for league and rugby are so bad in Melbourne is because channel 9 and 7 go out of their way to block it out. At least up north they give AFL a chance by having it around 9:30. Down here you only get the grand final live, that’s just pathetic I know plenty of people who would watch any sport over the rubbish we have to watch on Friday nights.
November 18th 2010 @ 1:46pm
Whites said | November 18th 2010 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
AFL budget for Sydney seems to have been $5m a year in the mid 90′s rising to $7.3m in 2004. Recent reports suggest the development budget is $120m over the next 10 years
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/25/1088144979903.html
So for the period 1995-2020 the AFL have and will have spent $230m+ on development and promotion of AFL in the Sydney market.
November 18th 2010 @ 2:39pm
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
News Ltd have plowed min $6M a year into Storm since 1998. Probably more like $10M per year. That’s 120 million already and they have only one team.
November 18th 2010 @ 5:15pm
Whites said | November 18th 2010 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
The $230m+ from the AFL for Sydney development and promotion is money outside of funds used to support the Swans over the years. Although the Swans still have some concessions it is my understanding they are now basically self-funding. We know how much support News Corp is giving the Storm. It is $6m a year, not $10m, and this is an inflated figure due to a small problem that was revealed this year. With a more realistic budget, a better TV deal and now a vastly improved stadium the Storm should move closer to breakeven over the next few years.
In 2004 when the AFL was spending $7.3m on development in NSW the NRL development budget for Victoria was the grand total of $300,000 per year. That’s only 4% of the AFL’s budget in NSW. It is quiet clear that the AFL has spent multiples of money more on Aussie Rules in NSW then the NRL has spent on Rugby League in Victoria. You would think that after investing such large sums of money for almost 30 years into the development of Aussie Rules in NSW that the AFL would have more to show for its investment.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/03/1078295447730.html
November 19th 2010 @ 12:13pm
Redb said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Whites,
Clearly it has. Between NSW & QLD there are 70 players in the AFL. How many Vic, SA, WA are in the first grade NRL?
Melb Storm has been in Victoria since 1998 so the ‘development’ read propping up the club and code has been flowing way before 2004. your splitting hairs.
November 19th 2010 @ 12:30pm
Jiggles said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
maybe AFL is a much easier game to be good at?
a case is Tom Williams for the Bulldogs.
I used to watch him run around at school boy rugby level. he was never going to play super rugby thats for sure.
he seems to be a pretty perminant fixture in the bulldogs but.
November 19th 2010 @ 12:37pm
Redb said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Jiggle,
Tom Williams has struggled to be a regular member of the Bulldogs. As with many of the rugby late to AFL converts they’re kicking under pressure is a problem.
November 19th 2010 @ 12:47pm
Jiggles said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
But he is a professionally payed player.
He would never of had what it takes to go professional in Australia, nor make it in Europe where most Australians who can’t crack super rugby go to.
November 19th 2010 @ 12:51pm
Redb said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Jiggles,
Heard of Lenny Hayes, the McVeighs? – they are straight out of the Sydney AFL, born and bred Sydney.
November 19th 2010 @ 1:05pm
captain nemo said | November 19th 2010 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
RedB, Lenny Hayes old man is a Victorian who pushed Lenny from a young age towards Aussie Rules. When Lenny first went to high school they only played rugby league so his old man sent him to Canberra where he could play a game at school. Not exactly a NSW product mate
November 19th 2010 @ 1:06pm
Jiggles said | November 19th 2010 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
I have heard of hayes not the others but. I got no idea about their history either; did they come from AFL as kids or convert over as adults after juniors in soccer, league, rugby etc?
No need to get defensive about it but, I am merely making the suggestion that the number of players produced from non-afl regions could be because of the simplicity and the relative ease the fundamental skills of the game can be acquired and brought to a level which is deemed satisfactory for professional payment.
Another reason could be the relatively simplistic skills of the game mean limited cultural heritage is needed to ‘create’ competent players. NZ, for such a small population, continues to develop the best rugby players in the world over countries much larger because rugby is in their blood.
I guess in rugby you never hear of players joining the game late form non-rugby or league backgrounds and finding success at the top flight. The only one I can think of is Tai McIsaac who played about 6 or so games for the wallabies after coming over from waterpolo at around 28 or something.
November 19th 2010 @ 1:10pm
Redb said | November 19th 2010 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Not sure about Hayes and the MCVeighs but I’d suggest they played the game at a younger age as their instincts are good as those who have always played AFL footy.
The earlier the better.
November 19th 2010 @ 1:24pm
Whites said | November 19th 2010 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Redb
There is a big difference between funding a professional football club and funding junior and grassroots development. If the AFL is spending in NSW 20 times more then the NRL is spending in Victoria you would expect more juniors to enter the AFL from NSW then juniors from Victoria are entering the NRL.
“Melb Storm has been in Victoria since 1998 so the ‘development’ read propping up the club and code has been flowing way before 2004. your splitting hairs.”
Yes. A maximum of $300,000 between 1998 and 2004 is a flood of money.
November 19th 2010 @ 1:31pm
Redb said | November 19th 2010 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Whites,
The funding for the Swans in the early days was about propping up the club, spending on the club, its ridiculous to suggest only $300K was being spent on melb Storm a year from 1998 to 2004. You mixed up the funding to suit your early comments but now qualify to suit the Storm comments.
20 times? I doubt that is accurate as well. Although again the AFL has the money to do it, so what?
November 19th 2010 @ 2:36pm
Whites said | November 19th 2010 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
I have actually quoted a source for the $300,000 a year for rugby league development in Victoria and have not suggested this money was used to support the Melbourne Storm. I’ve used 2004 because I found a source for both codes for that year. Clearly the funding would have been smaller or the same in the years before 2004 and would have grown for both codes after 2004.
I have mixed up any of the funding. The vast diference in funding is the reason more juniors have entered the AFL from NSW.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:35pm
mick h said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
if they have spent that much money why haven’t their junior numbers exploded and afl clubs springing up everywhere they aren’t.
November 19th 2010 @ 12:40am
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:40am | Report comment
i must admit that when i came across from nz to brisbane i was amazed at how big afl is here. we are told in nz by the australian own nz newspapers that its a rugby league and only league city. when i got here i saw many afl fields and living here for a while i saw that it was all over the tv, papers and radio. if i stayed in nz i would have never known about afl here in brisbane.
November 19th 2010 @ 7:36pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 7:36pm | Report comment
it still is a rugby league city dave.
November 19th 2010 @ 7:50pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 7:50pm | Report comment
its more like a multi sports city mick h.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:10pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
your head is buried in the sand dave i was born n bred not far from the g coast rl is a long way the most popular sport in se queensland
November 19th 2010 @ 8:52pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
if you say so
November 18th 2010 @ 8:24pm
mick h said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
redb you might know stuff about afl but you know nothing about rl or its development programs the kids to kangaroos is a highly sucessful program. the afl gf on tv in sydney big deal the swans ratings on fta are abysmal which you admit so how is a new team going to change that it won’t your 120 million will turn into 300 to 400 mil. i live in western sydney and have not seen any more promotion. on another blog they are so excited that the whole of the sydney metro area will have 17 u 18 ‘s teams next year an increase of two teams afl has one competition which includes wollongong whereas rl has 11 districts. from what i have read on this sight about the money the afl are spending an increase of two teams is not value for money. the majority of the players are still going to come from interstate. in a highly saturated football market something or someone will fold the question is who or what code will it be ? it might not be in sydney interesting times ahead
November 19th 2010 @ 12:45pm
Redb said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
mich h,
RL is miles behind the AFL respectively in expansion. This is an understandable source of frustration and jealousy.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:06pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
i am not frustrated or jealous i admit i have no interest in gws or afl at all . we are expanding within our own boundaries at an incredible rate. eg over 1 million students in australian schools this year had a rl experience through organised competitions and rl programs yes the majority of these children would have come from the act nsw or queensland but the other states did contribute with record numbers.rl already has a western sydney academy long before the afl and it oversees the 87 clubs 1500 teams and 22500 participants in comparision what is afl’s position.rl will expand in the future and i can see the central coast bears and perth being admitted. the bears membership is nearing 5000 and they don’t have a licence yet quite remarkable. what irks many people in the west is the waste of money that was spent at blacktown and what is going to be spent at homebush. why can’t gws play at anz stadium? what the rl should do is lobby the new liberal gov in nsw next march to fund an upgrade of anz stadium to a capacity of 92,000 rectangle in shape. if the afl keep on boasting about how much money they have then they should build and fund their own stadium.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:21pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:21pm | Report comment
now the leaguies are raving on about other activities like the headmaster mentioning rugby league at a school assembly and bingo there’s 589 kids add to the list…my daughter was a touch judge for her little brothers league game because someone didn’t turn up so she must have been added to the list as well.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:41pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
dave you are a fool you have no idea the state knockout competition finals this year had a record 4,000 players attend in western sydney.worthwhile programs. i’m not responding to u anymore go back to nz.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:45pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:45pm | Report comment
first it was 30,000 and then 1 million and here we are talking about 4000. is that crowd numbers?? because my sons school 1st XV here in Brisbane gets more than that in every game they play.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:56pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:56pm | Report comment
players can’t u read FINALS OF A STATE KNOCKOUT COMPETITION A RECORD 4,000 PLAYERS THEY WERE FINALS.
November 19th 2010 @ 9:17pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 9:17pm | Report comment
is that it? in queensland the ballymore cup 1st XV competition among state and private schools is the biggest comp in school rugby of the two codes. so whats your point again??
November 20th 2010 @ 11:17am
djfrobinson said | November 20th 2010 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Dave
I think your Anti-Rugby League.
I to live in Brisbane for the moment within walking distance to the Gabba and all anyone talks about around this place is rugby league.
AFL is popular and certainly has a following but the broncos are more popular with a much bigger following.
I read the news papers everyday and I see AFL getting a disproportionate amount of coverage. It reminds me of the amount of League coverage that the NRL gets in the New Zealand news media its disproportionate to the level of popularity of the game within the country.
November 23rd 2010 @ 7:50pm
mick h said | November 23rd 2010 @ 7:50pm | Report comment
dave it was the state knockout finals .each region plays a knockout competition with the winners proceeding to the finals in sydney. again i will say they had a record 4000 players.big deal about the ballymore cup the arrive alive cup in 2009 had over 500 teams compete.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:29pm
mick h said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:29pm | Report comment
gws didn’t want to send a people to a fete in blacktown two weeks ago because they had no-one to go poor pr redb they must think they are successful already.israel couldn’t go because he was counting his money.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:23pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
do you always make up stuff??
November 19th 2010 @ 8:43pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:43pm | Report comment
true fact.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:14pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:14pm | Report comment
redb have u been to any rl grounds in sydney most of the grounds won’t hold more than 20,000 fans.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:26pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:26pm | Report comment
thats right because they won’t needed.
November 18th 2010 @ 7:28am
Jay said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:28am | Report comment
“The GWS Giants will appeal to the young, under 18 boys and girls, who for the first time, will have a real, genuine choice in regards to their preferred code.”
What the heck is that supposed to mean? Has western Sydney been in the sporting dark ages and the all knowing at the AFL have lead the enlightenment at this blessed path of land?
AFL is not a foreign code here.. And if you were an informed journalist (i use that term loosely) you would know that rugby league, rugby union, football and aussie rules have been here for decades.
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November 18th 2010 @ 12:20pm
Jeff said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Don’t you mean soccer?
November 18th 2010 @ 2:17pm
jono52795 said | November 18th 2010 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
There has been a significant presence for Soccer, Rugby Union and Rugby League in Sydney’s west, with the latter having a handful of NRL clubs to support, week in week out. Yes of course Aussie Rules has been in West Sydney for a long time, but not in the way it is now. The game is changing, suck it up mate!
November 18th 2010 @ 8:41pm
mick h said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
jono they are playing at homebush not the 27million white elephant (the money should have been spent on soccer, rl and rugby union fields) at blacktown for the afl. i challange you to tell me where a new junior afl club is being formed now in western sydney.
November 19th 2010 @ 2:10pm
beaver fever said | November 19th 2010 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Cricket, the government and the Australian football all contributed to Balcktown, the facility will be used 6 months a year for cricket, good news for them isn’t it !!.
Not a white elephant at all.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:44pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
yes it is.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:38am
Dremo said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:38am | Report comment
AFL is not a stranger to Sydney as many people may think. My Brother after a yr with Stkilda seconds & time at subiaco was lured to sydney club East sydney Bulldogs 30 yrs ago with a reasonable fianacial & benefits package,. yes 30 yrs ago.
The only problem I have is with the name & Jumper, same as most other people. Giants is hardly original, “Swords” I think would be more appealing, GWS Swords, with a sword logo on the front. and that ghastly orange replaced with a grey colour making it black white & a mixture of the two, grey, with a Sword across the front.
In any case this franchise will be here to stay and anyone believing it’s something new for the area doesn’t know the Sydney sporting scene as much as they would like to think.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:40am
Art Sapphire said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:40am | Report comment
The writer is trying to portray the new club as some sort of innocent “David”
Yet, ironically, the AFL calls then team the “Giants”.
The Giants have a veritable “Goliath” backing them with big money and big media behind them.
The writers use of the term “stifled media” is disingenuous.
Compared to other codes, AFL gets the best media coverage in this country.
November 18th 2010 @ 5:30pm
beaver fever said | November 18th 2010 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
To right, the AFL should get the best media coverage, it is the biggest game in all ways, so quite justified wouldn’t you say ?.
It has passionate people working for it, and thousands upon thousands of passionate volunteers at grass roots level, coaching, managing, umpiring etc.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:16pm
hutch said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:16pm | Report comment
not in all ways. rugby league gets far more tv viewers, with a huge difference on pay tv.
so no, i wouldnt say it is justified that the victorian media still pretty much ignore the storm while the sydney and brisbane media give afl more than their fair share of coverage despite the lack of interest.
November 19th 2010 @ 11:18am
JamesP said | November 19th 2010 @ 11:18am | Report comment
“rugby league gets far more tv viewers”
No it dosent’. Are you still beliveing this myth? We have covered this countelss time on the Roar. NRL has higher accumulated figures yes becuase you add State of origin, Internationsls and 2 extra rounds. Average per premiership season game AFL is on top.
I can’t be bothered not but look up even Roy Masters articles on this and he concedes it (buried deep inside the article somewhere)
November 19th 2010 @ 12:55pm
Redb said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
“rugby league gets far more tv viewers”
Myth.
On FTA – prove it. “far more”
The AFL GF easily outrated the NRL GF in 2010.
Pay TV for example has grearter penetration on Sydney/Brisnae because the NRL owners have kept games off FTA.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:27pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
redb three games a week are on fta. on fox rugby league had 39 of the top 50 programs.indigenous all stars v nrl all stars 1.2 million viewers.state of origin most viewed ever 6.4 million across the five capital cities and a further 3.3 million in regional australia. 1.8 million the vb tst match aus v nz. broncos v parra 1.2 million
November 19th 2010 @ 8:41pm
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
why shouldn’t the nrl have 39 of the top 50 on pay tv when most of its games are shown on foxsports and its popular in two of the biggest states in australia? im surprise they don’t have all the top 50. why can’t you add just all the nrl games against the afl games mich h?
November 23rd 2010 @ 7:55pm
mick h said | November 23rd 2010 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
pay tv is nationally not just two states so people in other states must be watching. a tennis match finished in the top 5
November 18th 2010 @ 9:14am
allblackfan said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:14am | Report comment
You guys are missing the point. This is supposed to be a Western Sydney team. Who cares if the players come from the rest of NSW or interstate? It won’t endear them to the local community; why should west sydney residents give a hoot about an 18yo teenage from down south, west, or north (or a player best known for his RL exploits)? They’re blow-ins!
The NRL TIgers are already blowing their top over how the so-called Giants are tapping into their colours
November 18th 2010 @ 10:56am
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:56am | Report comment
It will be in time. It is a goal to create more AFL footballers in Western Sydney. You’ll find other expansion teams ave a similiar goal.
The AFL attracts more comments becuase literally it is more of a threat it seems.
November 18th 2010 @ 9:58am
jimbo said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Funny that the GWS announcement didn’t get much press yesterday night in Sydney.
Most of the interest was in Prince Williams engagement and the Socceroos.
There was also a good story about how the FIFA technical committee gave Australia’s bid a glowing report as “one of the best bids”.
If you really want to succeed in Sydney, stop letting the Aussie Rules Marketing department run the team.
Sydney fans are more fickle and more sophisticated than people from Melbourne and we can see a used car salesman from a mile away.
We’d like some genuine AFL people to show us why Aussie Rules is better entertainment than what we already have.
How is GWS going to be any different from the Swans, who are losing money and popularity by the minute.
November 18th 2010 @ 10:48am
Sports Writer said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Haha nice one Jimbo.
I live in an area pretty much in between Syndey and Melbourne and I have a lot of relatives in both citys.
“Sydney fans are more fickle and more sophisticated than people from Melbourne” good luck backing that up with facts mate.
I probably wouldn’t be passing through Victoria any time soon if I were you
November 18th 2010 @ 10:54am
Ben said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Wagga, Albury and the other south eastern NSW towns are more culturally Victorian than anything, it was probably a matter of convenience that the Murray was chosen as the border. Anything north of Gundagai is not AFL territory whatsoever and lacks any Victorian cultural influence, save for a few Victorians trying to force their game down the throats of the locals.
November 18th 2010 @ 11:07am
Sports Writer said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Are you serious?
Wagga is over 100ks north of Albury. Albury-Wodonga does sit on the border so maybe that is true of that particular city.
I can tell you Wagga is in no way “more culturally Victorian than anything”, and I have no idea what “other south eastern NSW towns” you are referring to but most of the small towns I know within a 150km radius of Wagga are defintely culturally NSW.
I grew up in a smallish country town near Gundagai and there is a good even spread of AFL and NRL culture
November 18th 2010 @ 12:44pm
The Phantom said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Are your talking about the towns like Mangoplah, Coolamon, Ganmain, Holbrook, Henty, Collungie, Lockart to name a few, that have thriving rules teams and nothing else or Wagga itself with 3 league teams and at least 8 rules teams? Gundagai is very different to the towns south of Wagga. You can’t buy a Herald Sun in Gundagai and I dont think you can get a telegraph in Walbundarie.
November 18th 2010 @ 12:49pm
Sports Writer said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
More the towns north east of Wagga closer to Gundy…Coota, Tumut, Temora, Young, Harden, Junee.
None of the towns in the Hume or Riverina leagues
November 18th 2010 @ 12:55pm
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Sports Writer,
Goondiwindi on the NSW/QLD border has a ripper Aussie Rules ground, club and facilities along with the rugby codes adjacent to the MacIntyre River.
November 18th 2010 @ 1:50pm
Sports Writer said | November 18th 2010 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Thanks Redb
November 19th 2010 @ 2:16pm
beaver fever said | November 19th 2010 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
http://www.cootamundraherald.com.au/news/local/sport/football-australian-rules/smith-tipped-to-make-history-in-afl-draft/1995446.aspx
Coota boy makes good in the AFL, first for awhile i would imagine, perhaps first ever.
November 19th 2010 @ 2:29pm
Rob C said | November 19th 2010 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Cootamundra, Tumut, Junee, Wagga, Temora, Harden, Gundagai, Young etc are all rugby league heartland areas. Gundagai has zero AFL as does Tumut and Harden.
Albury, Holbrook and some small towns on the border maybe more AFL than league. This mainly stems from their news feeds and programs stemming from Vic more than anything else i.e. they have more of an affiliation with Vic than NSW.
Wagga may have more rules teams but it is not a Aussie Rules town. Look at the junior numbers in the area and you will understand where I am coming from. The 3 Clubs in Wagga is misleading. This is becuase money is a big factor in league even at this level and the Wagga teams merged in order to be more competitive. The AFL comp does not have anywhere near the prfessionalism of Group 9 so it can attract a wider array of player.
I know this because I grew up in Gundagai and my family still lives there. My whole time living in the area (over 18 years) AFL got pretty much no media attention apart from small coverage in the Wagga Advertiser.
You guys thinking this is AFL territory won’t change the reality of it. It is rugby league. Always has and always will. If you want any more confirmation then just name the number of AFL people from the area that have made it to the professional leagues. I can think of two… There are countless numbers in the league ranks.
Sorry to burst the propoganda bubble…
November 19th 2010 @ 2:39pm
Sports Writer said | November 19th 2010 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
“The AFL comp does not have anywhere near the prfessionalism of Group 9 so it can attract a wider array of player” that is rubbish mate…sorry to burst your bubble.
You obviously don’t pay much attention to the Riverina, Hume and Farrer footy leagues do you?
Since the end of the recent local footy season there has been several signings around the leagues of upwards of $25,000.
The only decent Group 9 one so far has been Daniel Fitzhenry.
If anything the footy comps have MORE professionalism than Group 9 actually.
And yes the area around Gundagai has produced more league players than AFL ones because Gundagai and Tumut etc are very much league towns like I said.
And I LIVE in Wagga and I can tell you there is a very big AFL following in the city…both the major codes are on par.
And the media covers AFL and NRL equally if you pay attention
November 19th 2010 @ 2:45pm
beaver fever said | November 19th 2010 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
SP, thats what i always understood about Wagga, have cousins in Wagga, and they say the town is shared between AFL/NRL.
Have played Wagga tigers preseason and the standard is quite good, big solid country boys.
November 19th 2010 @ 3:14pm
Rob C said | November 19th 2010 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Sports Writer, how many players have made it to the AFL from this region. I can think of two. Please enlighten me if you think there are more.
Professional league players include (example only):
– Peter Sterling (Wagga)
– Laurie Daley (Junee)
– Adam Perry (Junee)
– Tod Payten (Temora)
– Trent Barret (Temora)
– Steve Mortimer (Wagga) etc etc etc
If I was wanting to be cheeky, I believe I could name at least 20 – 30 from the region (maybe more). I think you get my point.
Big signings come and go. My point is not just recruting from Sydney NRL it is from all levels of prefessional leagues (there are many in league). The wages costs in Group 9 to be competitive are over 100k per year for the top clubs. You can’t tell me the AFL teams spend this sort of money on players in Wagga. Hence my comments regarding professionalism…
In short you aren’t bursting my bubble because I am a riverina boy and know the market. You may live there now but it doesn’t sound like you grew up in this area…. You say you grew-up in a town near Gundagai. It must have been South and a lot closer to Albury in my opinion. Maybe Holbrook or Tarcutta…probably further South again..
In addition am interested to know the teams that are inluded in the Hume league because I thought Hume was around Albury area which is borderline Riverina. This league would not be representative of the areas you are talking about unless the name is misleading. Not sure…
November 19th 2010 @ 3:20pm
Rob C said | November 19th 2010 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
One additional point on News feeds. One of my mates moved to Albury recently and he complains that he cannot get any league on channel 9 at a decent hour. His reasons are because the feeds are coming from Victoria… Rugby keague in Wagga and surrounding areas come of the Wagga feed.
This is what I am talking about with regards to culture… The areas north of Albury all get Wagga’s feed.
November 19th 2010 @ 6:06pm
beaver fever said | November 19th 2010 @ 6:06pm | Report comment
Danihers all from West Wyalong, Paul Kelly and Wayne Carey from Wagga.
All the Carroll boys from the Riverina.
Hayden Bunton Snr
If i had the time the list would as long if not longer than yours.
The Riverina is a veritable treasure trove for many sports.
Cheers.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:53pm
Rob C said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
Sure beaver… You had the two that I was thinking of but have not heard of the rest. For my benefit please list them all. If I am as of track as you think then put me in my place…
You guys really live in la la land don’t you…
November 19th 2010 @ 9:36pm
beaver fever said | November 19th 2010 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
Further to the players i have already mentioned, there are John longmire, Shane Crawford, Leo Barry, Brett Kirk, Henry Playfair, Adam Schneider, Ben Matthews, Hamish Macintosh, Justin koschitzke, The Mooney Bros, Tom hawkins, David Trotter, Billy Brownless, Ricky Quade, Ben Fixter.
And i could probably find a stack more from around the Riverina, recently drafted yesterday Isaac Smith from Cootamundra, i think GWS has around 5 or 6 kids from the Riverina.
Considering as has been stated that Wagga has 3 RL teams and around 9 Australian football teams, which by the way have around 8 or 9 extra players per team, perhaps it is you living in la la land … as you so succintly put it !!., most peoples opinions are that Wagga is 50/50 AFL/NRL or thereabouts, why cant you admit it .
November 18th 2010 @ 11:22am
jimbo said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Sydney has the biggest population but the smallest per capita sports crowds – we are choosy in what we watch because we have so much to choose from.
November 18th 2010 @ 11:26am
Sports Writer said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Umm I just said I’m not from Melbourne, and I am a NSW boy born and bred.
If you want to turn this into a battle between Sydney and Melbourne be my guest, but I know if I was making comments like that I’d be staying well away from any Victorians for a while.
It’s not my “threats” you have to worry about
November 18th 2010 @ 2:22pm
jono52795 said | November 18th 2010 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Melbourne’s population is only some 450 odd thousand less than Sydney’s, but completley smashes it in overall attendance figures for every major sporting code and sporting events! AND we have just as much, if not more to choose from than Sydney (ie: think Grand Prix, Australian Open Tennis). Sydney is not a sports city!
Maybe GWS Giants can make it one…
November 18th 2010 @ 6:07pm
Titus said | November 18th 2010 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Jono please, Sydney stretches from Newcastle in the north to Nowra in the South and Katoomba in the west.It also has Canberra a 2 hour drive away. The population would be close to 7million, it is a global city, Melbourne is a big ol country town. Everyone in Melbourne follows AFL like their cousins and lovers do(sometimes the same person), if you don’t follow the AFL I presume you are treated like a freak, and my heart goes out to the football and League fans of Melbourne.
The only similarities between Sydney and Melbourne is that they are all controlled by the same cringeworthingly bad media, but in Sydney people just do their own thing and not all of them follow league. People in Sydney are just as likely to follow Besiktas, Juventus, AEK Athens or Man United as a league team, sometimes both. Me, I follow Sydney FC, Liverpool FC and Wests Tigers, if the Tahs or the Wallabies are winning then I’m on board. I would follow the swans but it all seems a bit like barracking for Darth Vader, so no thanks.
Good luck with a second AFL team though, cant see the need for a second one personally.
November 18th 2010 @ 7:23pm
The Visitor said | November 18th 2010 @ 7:23pm | Report comment
So choosy in fact that you all seem to choose to stay at home and watch t.v instead of forking out your hard earned to watch it live. Very choosy indeed.
November 18th 2010 @ 8:47pm
mick h said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
sydney is different to melbourne their sporting venues are easy to get to good public transport in sydney have u tried getting to homebush or the sfs during peakhour on a friday night crowds in sydney are affected by this it is easier to go home and watch the two friday night games.
November 19th 2010 @ 12:24am
Dave said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:24am | Report comment
i see your on this thread making more excuses on why rugby league crowds are down or small compared to other sports. i watched a rugby game in the wet in ireland just a couple of days agin with a good crowd.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:52pm
mick h said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
the waratahs home crowds are in freefall and it does have something to do with getting to the venue esp fri night have u ever been to syd not excuses just facts i’ve been on my way to many a sporting fixture and i hear the dreaded gore hill fwy traffic to a standstill i turn around and go home easier to watch on tv
November 18th 2010 @ 10:30am
Republican said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:30am | Report comment
NSW is not exactly a footy black hole.
The game has a long and strong history in what is a geographically large area.
This of course has been evidenced mainly in the south and South west especially the Riverina and the ACT however the northern and eastern regions are certainly starting to show healthy signs as well.
November 18th 2010 @ 10:50am
Ken said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Of course it’s not a footy black hole, there’s plenty of footy, it’s just AFL that doesn’t have much of a presence…
Yes, some of the towns on the Southern border have loyalties both ways with a number of good players coming through for both codes. It’s hardly surprising, many of them are much closer to Melbourne than Sydney. Not exactly evidence of ‘a long and strong history in NSW’ though, considering that the entire Riverina is only a few % of NSW population and the ACT isn’t NSW at all.
November 18th 2010 @ 11:21am
jimbo said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Of course.
We’ve even had the Swans in Sydney for 35 years – so we know what Aussie Rules is.
The question is, what does the GWS offer that the Swans don’t already offer Sydney for entertainment.
Why should we stop watching footbal, rugby unuion and rugby league and go and watch GWS?
November 18th 2010 @ 1:38pm
TCunbeliever said | November 18th 2010 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Jimbo..
The Swans are a transplanted Melbourne team, and as such a percentage of the local Australian Football fans have resisted supporting them. And now Sydney have their very own brand new AFL team, offering people the opportunity to be a part of something big from day one.. To be a part of their history and their future.
The Greater Western Giants is a team that people from all the ‘western’ suburbs of Sydney, as well as regional NSW and the ACT can call their own.
What the Greater Western Giants provide are another 11-12 games of Australian Football at the highest level played in the NSW/ACT area each season, effectively doubling the amount of games available for sports lovers to attend.. Not to mention improvements to the Blacktown oval, a thorough redevelopment of the Showgrounds Stadium.
There are 4,500,000 people (or thereabouts) in Sydney. If you add the average crowds for the Swans, the NSW A-League clubs and several NSW League clubs and you’d only have around 100,000. Thus the Giants have 4,400,000 people that they can bring to their games without stopping any followers of A-League, Rugby or the Swans going to their matches.
November 18th 2010 @ 9:12pm
jimbo said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:12pm | Report comment
GWS is a transplanted melbourne team playing a Melbourne game – can’t see them doing any better that the Swans, who are falling in popularity. They call themselves a Sydney team too.
Just more of the same and with Sheedie as your spokesman it has nothing to do with the local community and more to do with AFL marketing and Demetriou’s expansion plans to get more TV rights money.
November 19th 2010 @ 12:27pm
TCunbeliever said | November 19th 2010 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
*facepalm*
No, the Giants are an organic team developed in Sydney, with and for the local community, and are a team who have no history of existing in any other city. Australian Football may have been developed in Melbourne but has been played continuously throughout Australia for a very long time. That includes Tasmania, WA, SA, the ACT, NSW and QLD. Not to mention those who play it internationally, and have done so with no incentives trown at them from the AFL.
Well if the Swans are falling in popularity, every other NSW-based team in the A-League, NRL and Union comps must be totally f*cked then, as the Swans generally attract 2 to 3 times the amount of fans than teams in those competitions. The Swans do call themselves a Sydney club, but SMFC is clearly visible on their gurenseys which proudly declare their roots at the South Melbourne Football Club.
The 2 things you did manage to get right in your ludicrous and ill-informed discourse is that it is hard to see the Giants doing any better than the Swans, and that the AFL will get more money from a successful expansion. And not just through TV, but through extra merchandising, sponsorships, ticket sales and merchandising. Let’s consider that. If the Giants aren’t as successful as the Swans, they can still achieve 20,000+ members and average attendances of around 23,000. That’s not going to influence figures of any other competition up there but is still bloody good. They’ll be the 2nd biggest club in Sydney.
And well everything is about Money, isn’t it? Demetriou wants more money to ensure the future of the AFL, and League and the HAL also want more to keep those sports popular. There’s nothing wrong with it at all. And while the AFL are getting more money, they are also providing people in Western Sydney and Canberra the chance to see an additional 11 games of top-quality Australian Football.
November 19th 2010 @ 8:55pm
Working Class Rugger said | November 19th 2010 @ 8:55pm | Report comment
I suggest you look up the Swans ratings in Sydney. Note that these games are given priority in prime time. Hardly stellar.
November 23rd 2010 @ 8:05pm
mick h said | November 23rd 2010 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
how many of the swans membership is sydney based. south sydney will have 30,000 members by the time gws start playing. rl clubs bigger than the swans, gws are south sydney, st george -illawarra, parramatta canterbury- bankstown and wests tigers. all u afl supporters underestimate the strengh of rl
November 19th 2010 @ 1:34pm
TCunbeliever said | November 19th 2010 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
Oh – Look Jimbo – another thing that you are flat-out wrong about.
The Swans have been in Sydney for 28 years.
November 18th 2010 @ 12:34pm
Jeff said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Of course it’s not a footy black hole footy has been in NSW since 1908! Every heared of South sydney, Eastern Suburbs, North Sydney Bears?
November 18th 2010 @ 10:33am
Chris said | November 18th 2010 @ 10:33am | Report comment
I read something the other day about NINE re-thinking about even entering into negotiations for the AFL rights. And that could hurt what the AFL will get for there next deal, hugely.
The thing is with RL, it has so much room to improve with extra money. Such as being able to keep all the stars in the game. More expansion opportunities than AFL, the TV networks will see this. The standard of RL has been superb, but would jump considerably if we could stop all players going to the Uk. And effectively just have all the best players playing in the NRL.
You never know AFL could have jumped the gun here, you think if they don’t get near what they expected for the next tv deal. They are going to have two clubs to prop up not one, GWS and GC, even if the AFL don’t let those clubs fold maybe two Melbourne ones will. All RL fans know how much it can hurt when two traditional clubs are left to fold / kicked out.
On top of this, the big money spending on Folau and Hunt might just come back and bite the AFL on the ass yet. It certainly happened to Union in the long run, when they did the same thing.
I think the NRL is going along very nicely at the moment, let’s just wait and see what happens. I have a feeling it might finally be RL’s time to shine again. God knows we have waited long enough…
November 18th 2010 @ 11:29am
Sports Writer said | November 18th 2010 @ 11:29am | Report comment
I think I WOULD stop watching AFL if Nine took over the airing rights
November 18th 2010 @ 12:22pm
Redb said | November 18th 2010 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
TV rights? a diversion.
Ch 9 is posturing. A website carried a report from an un-named TV exec at Ch 9 which it said it would not pay over the top for AFL rights.
negotiation 101
November 18th 2010 @ 2:08pm
TCunbeliever said | November 18th 2010 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
As far as Channel 9′s position, it’s too early to say.. but I believe they are contractually obliged to bid with Channel 7.
Yes, RL has plenty of room to expand with extra money.. But where are they getting it from? And haven’t they already tried expanding into SA and WA? And didn’t they already fail at that? How many AFL expansion clubs have failed? The standard of RL might well be superb, but outside 2 stated there really isn’t much demand for it.
The AFL should have established both these new clubs 5 years ago. The AFL have already committed to support the Gold Coast Suns and Greater Western Giants for the next 20 years, and honestly having at least one less Melbourne club would be good for the Competition (and some suspect is actually a secret agenda of the AFL).
As for ‘League’s time to Shine’ I thought the 2010 NRL season was really good. What more do you want?
November 18th 2010 @ 2:44pm
The Phantom said | November 18th 2010 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
How many AFL expansion clubs have there been. You say above that the Swans are really a Melbourne team, the Brisbane Bears failed and had to merege with Fitzroy, while all the other clubs have been in the heartland areas of Adelaide and Perth.
November 18th 2010 @ 9:51pm
TCunbeliever said | November 18th 2010 @ 9:51pm | Report comment
You are right – West Coast, Fremantle, Adelaide, port Adelaide and Brisbane have been the only real expansion teams up til now, and Brisbane didn’t fail, it was Fitzroy who was forced to merge with Brisbane. Though I think that the change has strengthened the Lions as well.
Perhaps the WA and SA clubs are strong because (’til now, anyway) the AFL has had the foresight to go where they are wanted. Perhaps the people of the “GWS area” don’t want the Giants, but the Gold Coast folk have wanted an AFL team for quite a while..
November 18th 2010 @ 8:58pm
mick h said | November 18th 2010 @ 8:58pm | Report comment
pay tv is where rl can earn a lot more revenue from.this year 39 of the top 50 were nrl games.the nrl must get all games on fta to be shown nationally at a reasonable time( melbourne storm especially) if the afl can do it so can the nrl.
November 19th 2010 @ 1:25pm
JamesP said | November 19th 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Actually it will be Foxtel that determined whether the AFL goes over the billion dollar mark. Penetration is higest in NSW and QLD. Victoria is next and WA/SA have very very low rates of Foxtel. So this means 2 things:
1. Obviously league will have better ratings shows on Foxtel becuase its in far more homes in NSW/QLD than the rest of the country.
2. Foxtel is desperate to increase its penetration in the Southern states. I would day that they may have reached maxium saturation in NSW/QLD (probabably thanks to Super League war). Most NRL supporters in those states i would think have foxtel already. I would hazard a guess that most AFL supporters in the south and west do not have foxtel – and that is a big reason why Foxtel wants it fair share of “premium” games – so it can sell more subscriptions and drive the price of the AFL rights through the roof.
November 19th 2010 @ 5:24pm
Rob C said | November 19th 2010 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
James a little business 101 for you mate. The NRL has the best viewership rates on paytv. Foxtel as the highest penetration rates in NSW, QLD and VIC as you state. If I analyse this then it is pretty clear that it was the NRL and there programs that drove a big part of these penetration rates. Hence the ratings…
If NRL plays hardball it will get a massive deal from pay. All it has to do is threaten to sell all games to FTA for this to happen. The NRL is Fox’s cash cow. With league gone subscriptions would fall through the floor. Stop kidding yourself with your views around penetration. The only way AFL will gain more money from Pay TV is if it sells more games to Pay. This will compromise its FTA numbers / deal and leave it at the mercy of competining head to head with league on Pay where it will get murdered in ratings… Bit of a conundrum here in my opinion…
November 20th 2010 @ 11:38am
JamesP said | November 20th 2010 @ 11:38am | Report comment
RobC – here read this atricle from Foxtel CEO Kim Williams (Hopfeully he hasn’t attended the same Businss 101 class you preach). Maybe I should send this to Roy Master as well…
http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/foxtel-hits-back-at-critics-of-deal/story-e6frf3ou-1111116956899
November 21st 2010 @ 2:34pm
Rob C said | November 21st 2010 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
This article supports my views. The AFL will need to sell more and better quality games to improve its deal. It also shows that the AFL payed more because of a perceived return on investment from AFL which has not materialised (League is the highest rating sport on Pay TV). Given how old this article is I don’t think it is reflective of the current situation and league will get more money than AFL for Pay TV in the next deal. It won’t for FTA though. That is my honest opinion and reflects the standings on Pay TV between the two sports.