Surprise, surprise! AFL gaining traction in UK
By btn, 24 Nov 2010 btn is a Roar Pro
188 Have your say
Many people would think that playing Aussie Rules in the UK is the domain of ex-pat Aussies and maybe a few Irish players with a Gaelic background. This perception is changing, however, with the code expanding massively around the country.
The University of Birmingham Sharks is one such example of this.
The Sharks are a university Aussie Rules team set up, captained by, and consisting of only British undergraduate students.
The president and founder of the University of Birmingham Sharks Aussie Rules Football Club, Tim Smith says he was inspired to get involved in the game after seeing it on TV.
“[I thought] that looks nuts,” he said.
Smith played for the Birmingham Bears in the Central League in England in its inaugural season before deciding to set up the university team.
“I played for Birmingham in Central. Played for a year and it’s a summer sport in the UK basically ‘cause the ground’s harder. And then I just thought when I finished the season with the Senior team I wanted to carry on playing so I set up the Uni team and that’s basically it,” he said.
The Sharks have experienced considerable success in their short history, losing only two matches since the club was founded. Their early recruitment was very much a nor frills affair though.
“Basically, there’s a sports fair at the beginning of each term. And first term, it was literally just me and a ball. And then we managed to get about 20 people. That was last year. This year we got about 35 people around,” he said.
The Sharks’ scalps include a recent win over established team Cambridge. Their win-loss record is even more impressive considering none of the players had ever played the game before a year and a half ago.
Considering the limited exposure that these players have to AFL in the UK, the fact that Smith was able to recruit more than enough players is pretty astounding. Smith thinks this is because the Aussie game is such a unique code.
“Basically, we don’t turn anyone away. Other teams have trials. We just get on the rugby rejects and we convince them to play Aussie rules and because it’s so different, they go for it,” he said.
The success of the all-British Sharks is evidence that AFL has the potential to be played all around the world. In the UK alone, the last five years the game has experienced incredible growth with the inception of leagues outside of London.
“Outside of London five years ago, there was nothing. The London league has been going for about 20 to 22 years. Oxford and Cambridge have been playing for years. [Now] it’s springing up in all sorts of places and there’s more Unis joining as well,” Smith said.
Aussie Rules UK, is the body responsible for developing Aussie Rules in the UK. The ARUK has plans to expand the leagues to 7 in 2010, to include North East, North West, Cornwall, South East, South West, Central and London divisions with 34 clubs involved in the regions outside of London.
This expansion is indicative of the growing market of Aussie Rules within the UK. And with people like Tim Smith getting involved and promoting the game, I can’t see it slowing anytime soon.
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November 24th 2010 @ 5:03am
I am AJ Thurgood said | November 24th 2010 @ 5:03am | Report comment
Trumpeting up a group of lads not good enough for rugby is hardly a sign of making gains. Their first choice was obviously rugby.
He says they chose our footy because of its uniqueness but then admits he’s just picking up all the rugby discards.
So the uniquness is only appealing to the Cambridge lads after they have failed to get a run in the rugby teams.
We can lap these stories up as a bit of self indulgent back slapping about the superiority of our great game or we can admit that these English lads took up our game as a 2nd or 3rd choice.
Please. Reality check people.
I am AJ Thurgood
November 24th 2010 @ 5:52am
UK Steve said | November 24th 2010 @ 5:52am | Report comment
So what if it wasn’t their first choice. Every sport trying to gather a new market has to start somewhere, so good on them. They do show three AFL games each weekend on TV over here so it must have some appeal.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:13am
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:13am | Report comment
No good enough,
or not suited to?
If this were an RL story, then relying on RU rejects would be hardly inspiring. However, you’ve missed the point of all this if you don’t recognise the unique nature of the game such that Aust Footy sits somewhere between soccer and rugby.
At any rate – this is how this side has started,…..rejects as you call them. Let’s see where it is in 10 years time.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:48am
djfrobinson said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Kermit
Do you think that AFL has a realistic chance of surpassing League, Union or Football as the no.1 sport in the world?
November 24th 2010 @ 11:40am
TCunbeliever said | November 24th 2010 @ 11:40am | Report comment
AFL is not a sport, that is just the name of one of the many Leagues which play the sport.
However your question is still decipherable.
And my answer is that the sport has the capacity to appeal to a great number of people because it offers players fore freedoms and creativity than other sports, and plenty of physical challenges and contact.
So while amateur competitions will grow and more people will enjoy playing the sport, I can not see enough interest in it as a spectator event for there to ever be professional leagues in Europe (though Asia and America remain minor possibilities) and without a national televised competition I don’t think any sport can be considered popular.
And it would have to overtake more than those three sports to become the number one sport in the world..
November 24th 2010 @ 12:19pm
I am AJ Thurgood said | November 24th 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Bit late for that. The AFL has done a tremendous job of turning Australian football or footy into AFL. This war has been lost. We let them do it.
November 24th 2010 @ 12:44pm
djfrobinson said | November 24th 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Hi Tc
Thanks for answering the question. I’ve found the way that AR has spread into the other states of Australia to be interesting and worrying. The tactics it has used are clever and the AFL deserves a lot of credit for both its patiences and diligence in growing the code.
Believe it or not I’m not anti Australian rules. I just don’t want to see the sport in my country as it will further spread out the talent pool which is scarce enough too many sports will weaken the sport my country is good at to the point that it won’t be good at any sport.
I’d rather sacrifice AR in NZ then Football (Soccer, League, and Union).
As for England ARL might find a few players here and there but is highly unlikely to ever get beyond the play for fun stage
November 24th 2010 @ 9:23pm
TCunbeliever said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:23pm | Report comment
From your reply I am assuming you are a New Zealander..
And you are right, the AFL has been very clever and patient in the way it has chosen to grow in QLD and NSW (AR was always the #1 sport in WA, SA and Tasmania) but I wouldn’t be worried about any plans that the AFL have to take over New Zealand!
There may be one or two amateur competitions in New Zealand, but I wouldn’t worry about the players in these leagues ‘thinning out the talent’ as mostly the people in those competitions are there because they weren’t good enough for the Rugby or Soccer teams. Furthermore I cannot imagine any New Zealander taking Australian Rules seriously, and if they do play it it’d only ever be just for fun.
November 25th 2010 @ 11:36am
djfrobinson said | November 25th 2010 @ 11:36am | Report comment
TC
The problem New Zealand faces in dealing with the AFL issue is that we are a very small nation being confronted by a very large one. Our population is very similar to Australia’s and travel between the 2 countries is very easy with only a passport required.
After AFL has finished with NSW, and Queensland and has gotten everything that can from the two states to secure itself as the no.1 sport in Australia which is most likely to happen its going to turn its eye outwards.
AFL supporters say it’s all about choice which to a small extent is true, but mostly cultures develop a infinity with a sport based upon the cultural perception for example AFL supporters grew up watching, playing and spending time with dad or mum watching AFL. This is the same in Queensland, NSW with rugby League and New Zealand with Rugby Union.
- This is my assessment and is a personal view and by no means reflects reality just my assessment of reality -
What AFL has managed to do in NSW was win favourable TV rights for the Swans, get equal access to the Newspapers and flood the market with a marketing strategy which Microsoft would have been proud of at the same time they managed to provide no workable route for Rugby League fans in Melbourne, begrudgingly they allowed the storm to be created but no equal access was given to the newspapers, or prime time TV.
AFL has effectively killed the choice of NRL in Melbourne, while working to build its own reputation in NSW and Queensland.
For all its effort AFL has not managed to change the mindset of average NSW rugby league supporters and AFL has grown there over the last 30years significantly the effort has been a massive one but I think the gains speak for themselves.
Still Rugby League survives and persists I can see Rugby League reorganising into a different entity but wonder if it’s too little to late the damage has been done and while AFL will not be accepted in NSW as a stately accepted sport at least not for the next 30 years I believe AFL has the persistence to stay no matter the cost and one day perhaps it will surpass Rugby League
If AFL’s strategies used in NSW are successful in winning the state over to be more in favour of AFL over rugby league than there is no reason why the AFL won’t attempt to replicate those successful strategies in New Zealand.
Considering the size, power and money of the AFL against New Zealand’s tiny population, affinity it shares with Australia on a cultural and social level there are no reasons why AFL wouldn’t do great damage to the other sports of New Zealand even if it was unsuccessful in winning the entire nation away from Rugby Union.
I admire the effort and commitment which AFL has shown in growing the game. I just do not wish to see it fight a code war in New Zealand which would hurt New Zealand more than help.
Sorry about the long post I hope it makes sense.
As for the sport growing in England the English will decide themselves which sport to play and follow but I suspect that the growth will happen at a big rate at first then tapper off, it will go into times of great growth and then decline unless it goes professional there it will always be considered a minor sport to be played for fun.
Once again just my opinion
November 26th 2010 @ 1:05am
TCunbeliever said | November 26th 2010 @ 1:05am | Report comment
dj,
I have read all that and I understand where you are coming from.. But I still don’t believe that you have anything to fear from any AFL expansion.
The AFL will continue to support the two new AFL teams in NSW and QLD for the next 30 odd years, but only the boldest commentators have said they will reach 30,000 members each in that time. Anywhere above 22,000 members will be a success, and is essentially all that the AFL is after.
If the AFL achieve that, the teams are a success, but that will not nearly be enough to ‘convert’ QLD and NSW to the AFL, as the two states combined contain upwards of 10 Million people.. With their greatest possible figures, the AFL would only have a combined total of 120,000 members (between 4 clubs), and possibly 200,000 casual fans in an area containing 10 Million people. Really insignificant numbers.
And you have to keep in mind that everyone in these areas knows about Australian Rules, and the sport has been played there at amateur levels since the late 1800s, although with a very low profile.
The reason the AFL is able to expand to these regions is because despite it being unpopular, there are people who already play it in those areas.. In fact there have been over 70 AFL players from NSW/QLD, some of which have become absolute superstars and icons of the competition..
Conversely, should it ever arise, the prospect of an AFL club based in NZ could never work because (despite proximity) AR is almost entirely unknown.. It is not a part of the local consciousness, and there wouldn’t be enough local supporters to ensure a team was viable, no matter how much money the AFL put into it.
November 24th 2010 @ 12:46pm
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
djfrobinson -
in short ‘No’.
To surpass Rugby league. Dunno. RL in many cases can start up leveraging directly off RU (or vice versa). I seriously in this context don’t regard them as very distinct games at all – - RL is about as distinct as RU 7s is to full side RU! (this is when you talk about getting absolute novices to play a game in a new market mind you).
Aust Footy could though surpass RL stand alone. Aust Footy has the advantage of being very distinct to the RL/RU/American-Canadian Football formation style of game.
Aust Footy is very distinct from soccer.
It sits in a market niche pretty well alone. Overseas, there are many adaptations to allow 9-12 aside, to adapt games onto Rugby/soccer pitches. That overcomes some of the 18 aside massive cricket oval barriers.
So, who knows.
But, certainly NOT number 1, certainly not surpassing soccer or union. RL though, as I said, you just never know. If Europe/UK is so crying out for professional ‘football’ that they have pro soccer, pro RU and pro RL, then, why the heck not??
For the foreseeable future though – - the most anyone is seemingly hoping for is a recruit grown up outside of Australia. We’re close, but, the guys in the system have had to move here for ‘finishing’. There’s a PNG lad, Donald Barry up at the Lions on an international scholarship who might be a chance. One step at a time!!!
November 24th 2010 @ 1:25pm
Sharminator said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
As usual for AFL evangelists .. you are just demonstrating your lack of knowledge ..
“RL is about as distinct as RU 7s is to full side RU”
If this was true the games would have merged when RU became professional. They are very distinct, even in body types. Some positions have similar body types but RL has no need for the extremely tall or large players such as Front and Second rowers of RU, because of the lack of line outs or contested scrums in RL.
The idea of AFL surpassing RL … in Europe is laughable.
“If Europe/UK is so crying out for professional ‘football’ that they have pro soccer, pro RU and pro RL, then, why the heck not??” … umm and why not lacrosse o lawn bowls either … because no one in Europe is interested in a weird game, wearing different clothes and a different ball, on an oval that cant be found in most countries.
Its the same reason why NFL never caught on in Europe despite billions in NFL investment.
In England … football is played all over the country … Rugby Union is popular in the midlands and south and especially the south west of Britain … and Rugby League is very popular in some industiral cities in the North … Wigna, Bradford, Hull, Widnes, Leeds etc. For a while RL was actually called the “Northern Game”. The point is that although RL is nowhere near the level of RU or football .. it has a very strong and loyal following in some parts (as in Australia where the southern and other states overall support AFL and NSW and Qld RL and RU).
AFL has no chance of breaking history …
Keep dreaming .. and do some research.
November 24th 2010 @ 1:35pm
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Sharminator
my qualifier for that statement was “this is when you talk about getting absolute novices to play a game in a new market mind you”
You chose to 100% ignore that.
Which I guess allowed you to justify your little rant.
November 24th 2010 @ 1:42pm
Jiggles said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
In new markets the IRB Sells (for lack of a better word) 2 games as distinct products, Rugby 7s and Rugby Union.
November 24th 2010 @ 2:37pm
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
And that’s (RU XV’s and RU VII’s) a perfect example of adaptability that the international contingent of Aust Footy has taken on that is for the vast majority of Australian based fans is something completely unknown. Just ask how many Australian AFL fans have seen, played or heard of Aust Footy 9s!!!
This is where this ‘international’ stuff is good for footy – it’s forcing a change in thinking that might not occur otherwise. It CAN force people to question just what is an ‘untouchable’ about the game and what isn’t. I.e. size/dimensions of playing field, number of players.
Cricket now we see has 3 offerings, tests, T20 and OD’s – - and that’s at the elite level!! (oh, and Hong Kong 6′s!!).
November 24th 2010 @ 6:13pm
mick h said | November 24th 2010 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
everyone afl is not even mentioned on the bucs (british universities and colleges sports) gaelic football is but not afl . BTN where do you get your info from is there a website. just a few stats on rl in uni’s and colleges currently there are 69 university sides and 39 college teams.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:36pm
Aljay said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
Did a quick search, there are more references to BUCS ultimate frisbee teams than AFL. Now there’s a target for the AFL to work towards.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:09pm
hutch said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
kermit, i want what you’re on mate! that would be the most delusional post in this thread (which is saying something) yet. surely you’re not serious?
November 24th 2010 @ 8:23pm
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
hutch -
note that I didn’t bring the other code comparison into it – - so, I thought it a bit harmless to play along with it a bit!! Don’t take it too seriously.
Quite seriously though……how would you treat a question like this :
“Do you think that AFL has a realistic chance of surpassing League, Union or Football as the no.1 sport in the world?”
Let’s just apply Dick Smith’s ‘big sky’ theory to sport. It’s a big world out there. Sports wise, – the ‘big world theory’ – - there’s still many more people NOT playing organised sport than are. Each sport has plenty of room to go, each football code would betray itself in NOT seeking to grow. Standing still isn’t an option…..or is it?? Gaelic Football has been standing still for a long while now, and perhaps has missed some golden opportunities along the way.
November 25th 2010 @ 6:56am
macavity said | November 25th 2010 @ 6:56am | Report comment
soccer and rugby? it sits somewhere between cross country and netball, maybe.
November 26th 2010 @ 5:41am
Kermit is a frog said | November 26th 2010 @ 5:41am | Report comment
well, there you go.
and none of us have mentioned basketball or volleyball yet either.
The broad variety of ‘attributes’ makes it accessible for many. Mastered by few, but accessible by many.
btw – noting that Swans Canadian Mike Pyke, after 2 years as a rookie, and finally a couple of break out serviceable games towards the end of season 2010, got offered a full contract and was officially listed on the senior list at last weeks draft. (just crossed the ‘t’s’ and dotted the ‘i’s). Took him 2 pre-seasons, two seasons and he’s still behind Mumford and Seaby as a backup option.
November 25th 2010 @ 3:26am
Tim Smith said | November 25th 2010 @ 3:26am | Report comment
Hi all,
I’m Tim Smith, the guy who set up the uni team at Birmingham, UK and was interviewed in this article. I see a few of my comments have sparked a bit of a debate!! Heres just a few replies:-
- The bit about rugby rejects is a bit of a misquote. It is just ONE of the ways we pick up players. The vast majority of our players FIND US, at sports fairs and through word of mouth.
- We are definitely NOT a team of rejects!! A fair few of our new players this year got into the uni’s first team rugby & basketball teams but they chose us.
- The big thing is, in the UK aussie rules is different – completely different to any other sport out there. Thats what first attracted me, and thats whats attracted so many other Brits to play the game!!
- The key with the ‘gaining traction’ statement, as many posters have said, is the fact that new sides are occuring with no expat background at all! In fact, the vast majority of teams outside London are like this, and 80% of these clubs have been going for 5 years or less. Each year, 3 or 4 new clubs start. Yes some die, and yes aussie rules is unlikely to ever be even the #5 or #6 sport in the UK, but it is definitely growing at a brilliant rate! Yes, the level is nowhere near the standard found in australia, but something is better than nothing and the standard is improving all the time.
Norm – We are not part of that list yet because we are not part of ‘University of Birmingham Sport’ as we are still a relatively new club. We get funded by our student union, and are listed on their site http://www.guildofstudents.com/content/193065
Cheers,
Tim
November 25th 2010 @ 7:01am
djfrobinson said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:01am | Report comment
Hi Tim.
Obviously you enjoy playing AFL which is great and I applude you for giving something new and different a go.
I’m wondering do you support a football side? And when I say football I mean EPL and not AFL
November 25th 2010 @ 10:53am
TCunbeliever said | November 25th 2010 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Good to hear from ‘the man behind the story’..
Congratulations on setting up the team and getting more people involved.. I was just wondering whether yourself or any of your teammates make an effort to watch AFL games on the TV over there (wherever they may be shown) and if anyone you know of follows it enough to have their favourite team? I highly doubt it is the case, but it might be good to get a clear answer.
Anyway keep up the good work and enjoy yourselves!
November 26th 2010 @ 5:48am
Kermit is a frog said | November 26th 2010 @ 5:48am | Report comment
Well done on your efforts.
There are more and more stories like your these days. Such as the American who saw the game on TV and established a club, or the fellow who backpacked Australia and returned home to establish a club, or the fellow who studied in Sydney for a year and managed to fall for AFL even in that environment.
Mostly this seems possible in the internet age. In the past – these sparks would have burned briefly and often come to nothing, or existed for 2 years and faded.
However now that’s all changing. Regarding the ‘traction’ word – well, there’s actually a tractable structure in place now.
We’ve seen some schools getting engaged in footy – such as Carshalton Boys Sports College in Sutton who proadly run a footy program and have seen 20 of their number represent England and 10 headed to Australia in the 2008 tour. Do you know of any schools around Birmingham who are on board or thinking about it?
btw – check out Worldfootynews. Yours would be a story worth running an article on.
November 24th 2010 @ 6:01am
Ben said | November 24th 2010 @ 6:01am | Report comment
Quicky, ring the FA and warn them about the impending AFL takeover of their country!! *Barf*
November 24th 2010 @ 6:21am
peeeko said | November 24th 2010 @ 6:21am | Report comment
a bunch of rejects take up Australian football does not mean that the gaime is gaining “traction” in the UK. the afl media train has published articles recently about expansion into South Africa, Polynesia, the USA and CHina- it is laughable. Accept that your game is huge in Australia and that is all it will be.
November 24th 2010 @ 6:36am
ruckrover said | November 24th 2010 @ 6:36am | Report comment
I’ve been following the international growth of Aussie Rules for 10 years since played briefly in the UK. It is clear that critical mass is starting to be achieved in a lot of countries where it is no longer just an ex-pats game.
The other aspect is increasingly better organised admins and use of internet to promote the game. Each year there is overall growth and it shows no sign of stopping – so for peeeko to say “accept that your game is huge in Australia and that is all it will be” is a comment based only on the past and present but not on the trajectory of change. Who knows how big the game can become in time?
Junior development is taking off in a few places. At some point draftees to the AFL will give impetus to the game amongst the foreign leagues who produce such young talent – then another critical mass will have occured and threshold will be crossed.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:18am
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:18am | Report comment
The internet is a key most certainly. It’s refreshing to see that it can be a tool for grass roots organisations to grow and spread rather than Television which became a big business indoctrination tool.
Junior development is certainly the key. There’s been a number of UK schools who have reasonable programs, but, this needs to spread. The AFL surprised everyone by coming on board this year with not just one, but two, Under 16(+) international squads for the National Championships.
November 24th 2010 @ 7:17pm
mick h said | November 24th 2010 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
kermit are the afl schoolboys touring the uk at the moment. the arl schoolboys are playing 5 games against wales, england community lions,great britian community lions and a 2 test series against england academy. i am interested to know when the afl team is touring. i agree with you about junior development but all other sports are doing it already.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:41pm
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
No.
Pass on my best wishes to the ARL schoolboys.
What we HAVE had in recent times has included -
The Clontarf academy system based indigenous ‘Boomerangs’ team has toured several times, to South Africa, also a trip in March last year to PNG, and in a couple of weeks the Boomerangs will head to Tonga to play 2 games against combined Pacific sides as an aside to the Oceania Cup U16s tournament.
We’ve recently seen VAFA (Vic Amateur) U18s side travel to NZ for a couple of matches.
In 2008, (International Cup year) we saw a British Junior side travel to Australia, my wife ran into you Welshman Ed Doe’s father at the IC Cup as he was watching the Brits. They compared stories of Mellenium Stadium in Cardiff and Doe’s dad expressed his absolute pride in his son doing what he was doing. He also plays Rugby, and is in the first XV at Blackheath as an inside centre.
Around the same time a Canadian Junior rep side (The Wolfpack) toured Australia too.
The Danish lads at Farum have a reciprocal tour arrangement with Geelong college.
These are what I can think of off the top of my head. There’s a demand for more junior/school touring to occur.
For old buggers – there’s often an Australian Convicts tour going somewhere, most recently through Chile and Argentina playing footy against the local sides. The Convicts are just anyone of any age/ ability who can afford to go. You might be interested in such a trip??
btw – yes, all other sports are doing it already – - so, it was ruddy about time the AFL gave it half a chance.
That was where the whole quirky aspect ruled the roost when all there was was the International Cup for ‘adults’. The goal had to be to get some form of Junior International cup. Without that, you have no production line for talent, for future local coaches/umpires etc. Well, in Denmark, I think it was last year they had their first ever game where not one single Australian played/umpired/coached in the match (Farum vs Helsingborg…..okay, Chris Campion is dual citizen, but, Danish born and bred with Australian father).
November 24th 2010 @ 8:53pm
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
btw –
this is a great article about the Flying Boomerangs Boomerangs return changed boys from the Australian back in May, 2009.
November 24th 2010 @ 9:27pm
beaver fever said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=104999
THE AIS-AFL Academy will break new ground next April when it takes its 30-member squad of budding footballers on an international learning trip to Europe.
November 24th 2010 @ 12:18pm
TCunbeliever said | November 24th 2010 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Good post, RR.
The game is spreading slowly, and considering that more and more frequently locals (not expats or AFL delegations) are getting involved and even starting their own teams and leagues I can see no reason why this growth should stop.
The internet is indeed a powerful tool, It is not only possible for AFL followers globally to follow and listen to games live, but it allows greater opportunities for international fans to follow the progress of their fellow countrymen who are playing in the AFL, and we do already have players from Ireland, Canada and Sudan making a strong impact.
Another piece of evidence that the sport is growing internationally is that a Chinese television company has bought rights to broadcast AFL games for the next couple of seasons. They wouldn’t do that if there was no interest. Broadcasting the games there is going to result in more people wanting to try play it, so it will give a big boost to the amateur competitions there, and in a couple of years there may be players of Chinese origin in the AFL again, which in turn would improve the viewing figures in China as well.
November 24th 2010 @ 3:58pm
Al said | November 24th 2010 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Have you ever watched Fox sports??? There are plenty of sports broadcast here that have little interest for Aussies
November 24th 2010 @ 6:16pm
mick h said | November 24th 2010 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
yeah afl is not mentioned on the bucs website yes the website is a powerful tool .
November 24th 2010 @ 3:29pm
Jackson said | November 24th 2010 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
is it like American football in Australia?
That’s played at my University!
I see AFL internationally as I see American football internationally…. seriously, neither are going anywhere, really…
November 24th 2010 @ 3:41pm
Jay said | November 24th 2010 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
American football internationall would eat up the AFL.
American football in Australia is pretty big.. OzPunt or the Australian NFL body is well organised and there are a number of amaetur competitions.
November 24th 2010 @ 6:49am
Redb said | November 24th 2010 @ 6:49am | Report comment
One new team at a Uni is not ‘gaining traction’ in a wide sense. There is however development occuring in some schools and new leagues with expats and no expats involved. It’s all too nascent in the UK and some European countries though to announce the game is gaining ‘traction’.
Many sports are finding green fields beyond traditional areas as the global communication explosion continues at a rapid rate.
Attracting first choice athletes is a long way until there is a professional pathway in these countries. You have to start somewhere.
As an Australian I feel more pride hearing about folk from overseas trying our game than any football code times x10.
November 24th 2010 @ 6:23pm
mick h said | November 24th 2010 @ 6:23pm | Report comment
all other sports are developing too redb the carnegie champion schools tournment for rl had 1678 teams 27,537 students compete in 2010. an increase of 2,911 students from 2009.
November 24th 2010 @ 7:17am
True Tah said | November 24th 2010 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Its clear that the game is expanding with minimal input from the AFL.
It does make sense that nations that have cricket grounds are logical targets for the sport. The sport is already bigger than RL in the USA, but that isnt really saying much.
Im sure there will be plenty of knockers on here though, both from futbol and rugby. But good on the sport for having a go.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:39am
beaver fever said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Good post, the difference though, is cricket grounds like football grounds have no real clear stated size, cricket grounds in the UK are all over the shop and generally smaller than here, it makes sence to me that a 9′s type game is more suited to for O/S leagues.
9s footy much like rugby 7′s, is more open, easier to organise and can be quite exciting to watch.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:58am
Redb said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Appropriate and measured comment TT.
November 24th 2010 @ 7:23am
JAJI said | November 24th 2010 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Some cold hard factsfor those brave souls ready to take AFL to the world
TV ratings wise no one in Sydney watches your game – ask Channel Ten how well the Swans rate when up against “The Iron Chef”
How then is China v South Africa in AFL coming to our screens soon? Critical mass? Watch out Manchester United – AFL is coming!
The AFL should stick to where its strengths lie – a big fish in a failry small pond…
November 24th 2010 @ 8:26am
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:26am | Report comment
You said “Over in the NRL they know their game is a farce outside Sydney and Brisbane but still dont masquerade as an “international game of traction”. They know where they stand”
I beg to differ.
Just a ‘current’ sample from the RL tab :
A fair dinkum international model
A Rugby League World Sevens blueprint
A blueprint to improve International Rugby League
Historic Kiwis win could help league rival union
Benefits of a League Pacific Islands Draft
Heck, you don’t have to love or approve of what’s happening in Aust Footy world – but, be a tad more reasonable. None of this is hurting you.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:54am
Football United said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:54am | Report comment
with those articles though, there is already international aspect to the game which they can work with. aussie rules unfortunately stil at the moment can only dreaming of what could be
November 24th 2010 @ 9:34am
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:34am | Report comment
There is already an international aspect to Australian football. Just not professional.
However, in the RL 4 nations, the PNG team was a bunch of amateurs (as per the RL PNG website where there was much consternation about their whole campaign) given about 3 weeks training/preparation for the tournament and they got smashed.
FOr Aust Footy, we’ve had 3 International Cup tournaments since 2002 (every 3 years), and 3 different winners. We’ve had close to 20 distinct nations compete with NO expats and NO parentage eligibility criteria to allow Australians to play for other nations.
This is the starting point in effect for the AFL to get half serious about it – - i.e. this year when they announced finally a full time international development manager role at AFL HQ. That and 2 international squads in this years edition of the national u16s. And we have the 2nd Oceania Cup U16s being held in Tonga in 3 weeks time with at this point looking like 7 nations involved.
Where does it start from??? The AFL now has foundations established that $50 million in investment would struggle to achieve – and these foundations have pretty well cost nothing due to grass roots growth over 20 years in some cases.
November 24th 2010 @ 1:14pm
Sharminator said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
PNG´s national sport is Rugby League …..
November 24th 2010 @ 1:28pm
beaver fever said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Yes, we know and that is fantastic, and good for RL, but there is a also credible Australian rules comp/leagues and junior programs, and that is also good …. yes ? … No ?.
November 24th 2010 @ 7:00pm
djfrobinson said | November 24th 2010 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
Beaver Fever
Aussie Rules should be allowed to grow. I just don’t think it should go where its not wanted.
November 24th 2010 @ 9:49pm
The Visitor said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
djfr, for those who don’t want it, don’t want to play it, watch it, read about it, talk about it, write about it or think about it there is always the option to ignore it.
Wouldn’t you agree?
November 25th 2010 @ 12:37pm
djfrobinson said | November 25th 2010 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Visitor
I agree with you in principle.
November 24th 2010 @ 7:26pm
mick h said | November 24th 2010 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
png had no hope in the 4 nations a lot of their professional players were injured and turmoil erupted just before the tournament in regard to coaching and support staff. close to 20 nations what is it 20 or less kermit.
November 24th 2010 @ 12:59pm
TCunbeliever said | November 24th 2010 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
You mentioned some ‘cold hard facts’.
The only accurate piece of information you provided was that on some occasions ‘Iron Chef’ (which is a quality programme) had more viewers in Sydney than Swans matches.
Technically, if ‘no-one’ watched the game the ratings would be 0. Or so bad that the AFL would only be on pay-tv like the A-League.
Some AFL matches in Sydney – even ones not involving the Swans – had pretty damn good ratings.
And the average TV audience of the AFLs finals series in China was 300,000. Which is not too bad, considering the AFL Grand Final had 363,000 viewers in Sydney.. I imagine the TV figures from China will increase next season after they get exposed to a season of home and away games too, and start having favourite teams. In contrast, the NRL grand final drew 220,000 TV viewers in Melbourne.. This just demonstrates that AFL is more popular in China than the NRL is in Melbourne..
And no, neither China nor SAfrica will have teams in the AFL. They do both currently have their own Australian Football amateur leagues, however, as well as National representative teams (with players drawn from those amateur leagues) and when both nations qualify for the International series they will quite possibly play each other then. As well as representative teams from America, New Zealand, Japan, and various European and Oceanic nations.
November 24th 2010 @ 7:10pm
Norm said | November 24th 2010 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
-”…This just demonstrates that AFL is more popular in China than the NRL is in Melbourne..” or maybe it just demonstrates that there are more TV sets in China (pop 1 billion) than in Melb (pop 3.75 mill).
November 24th 2010 @ 7:33am
captain nemo said | November 24th 2010 @ 7:33am | Report comment
” with the code expanding massively around the country” what is your definition of massive btn?
November 24th 2010 @ 8:19am
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:19am | Report comment
it’d be a relative measure, wouldn’t you reckon?
November 24th 2010 @ 8:25am
I am AJ Thurgood said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Massive in the minds of some. The game is massive in Melbourne. That we understand is an appropriate use of massive. The game is not mirroring Melbourne anywhere in England.
Let’s worry about making the game massive in Sydney and Brisbane first eh.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:55am
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:55am | Report comment
without entering a silly argument on semantics – there’s a lot to be said for having less sociological ‘barriers’ OUTSIDE of Australia (Sydney/Brisbane in particular) than within. The whole ‘anti-Victorian’ sentiment isn’t quite as strong in places like Denmark, Canada or England.
November 24th 2010 @ 9:16am
Ken said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Why would there an anti-Victorian sentiment in Sydney/Brisbane (if I understood the implication)? Don’t get me wrong, there is no doubt all the states in our country don’t mind a bit of niggle but I don’t think Victoria has any mortgage on that. Anyway from my experience Sydney seems to be the target for more ‘anti’ sentiments than anywhere else in our wide brown land. I visit Brisbane quite regulary and I can assure you their animosity for NSW is far more than for Victoria!
November 24th 2010 @ 9:35am
beaver fever said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Not quite a anti-Victorian sentiment as such but a anti-AFL sentiment from Sydney in particular, Victorian rules, Melbourne rules, great Victorian shame, fumble ball, Victard ball, bogger ball, most of these terms IMO have been thought up by league/soccer fans in Sydney.
As Kermit said, it can be far easier to “sell” Australian football to people O/S who can have a far more open mind.
November 24th 2010 @ 1:33pm
Ken said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Yeah you’ll hear those names if you listen hard enough but I’ve heard Thugby League and similar come from the vocal minority on the other side of the fence as well. The more reasonable majority don’t usually resort to name-calling.
I don’t think the general population of Sydney is anti-AFL, it’s just ambivalent – it’s not our game, we didn’t grow up with it.
November 24th 2010 @ 1:46pm
beaver fever said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
True Ken, the reasonable majority dont resort to name calling, when i was a kid, ( In Canberra) it was aerial ping pong for rules and we called league cross country wrestling, but it was light hearted and there was generally a respect for each others code, and many kids played both.
There seems to be much more resentment in league hearland areas for AR than the other way around, and IMO the Sydney media have a big hand in it.
I dont think the general population of Sydney is anti-AFL either , but there is a extremely vocal minority who really hate it with a passion, and it just does not seem to go the other way with anywhere near the same numbers.
November 24th 2010 @ 9:41am
Black Diamonds said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:41am | Report comment
I don’t think he’s challenging those assertions of yours – but I think he has a fair point.
Its more to do with the fact people in NSW & QLD who haven’t grown up with the game see it as a Victorian invention v their NSW/QLD ‘invention’ – (The NRL – which is effectively the game).
Its an affront to their dignity for them to be told that they’re not playing an “Australian game” (when in fact they are), and that the real “Australian game” comes from down South.
This is not a problem anywhere else in the world – perhaps NZ, maybe – but in Europe, they’re certainly not worried about being “out-Australianlised” by another State.
You might have a similar scenario in Ireland – a place very close to the UK, but where Gaelic games are still very popular. This is kind of a “rejection” of the game across the ditch – slightly different given they were controlled by the English for so long, but similar in some ways. ie, why should we adopt the games (to a massive extent) of our neighbours (even if they are good games) – we’ve got our own games and we’re proud of them.
These kind of issues did not spring up in Africa for instance – they’re very happy to play an imported game, they don’t care where its from!
November 24th 2010 @ 9:53pm
The Visitor said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:53pm | Report comment
NSW?
I thought it was NSF, New South Fails.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:23am
oly said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:23am | Report comment
I watched the British Bulldogs national team play the Manchester Mosquitos in the UK a couple of years ago. It was bush league standard, with no posts and played in front of about 15 people.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:28am
Eamonn Flanagan said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:28am | Report comment
The Castle had that great Aussie line, “you’re dreamin,” for a reason.
Because it summed up the stupidity of AFL/League fans who think just because 95,000 rock up to watch Collingwood v whoever that once the rest of the world has seen the game they will be hooked.
Rugby League has hardly made it past Chesterfield after 100 years and national tv coverage on the BBC from the 60′s every Saturday arvo, prime sports time 4- 5pm, and remember League is the ‘greatest game in the world’ so reckon it won’t be too long before AFL gets past Sutton Coldfield (5 miles from Birmingham)
League and AFL folk tend to think the rest of the world ‘ just have to see the game’ then we’ll all want more.
We don’t it seems. Even in England where League has had a major league up north, massive TV exposure for decades but still can’t crack Manchester or Liverpool never mind the midlands – and let’s not talk about the South.
AFL – Buckleys I reckon but wonderful story about a group of Uni students joining up at their O week. Give us a break!
Getting some traction for AFL in any country is much harder than a few internet writers seem to think.
Problem 1: The name. AFL. English Cricket – now how would that go down in this land of the fair go if we changed/introduced all cricket to be called English cricket, or Chinese football – as open as Australia is – no chance of signing your kid up for that one is there? Reckon the English are waiting to sign up for an “Aussie” game. Ever discussed with English people what they think of us down here?
Problem 2: AFL: It’s a game that requires incredible skill to master a ball that can never be mastered. No kid will stick with it outside Southern Australia where Dad and the media tell him what he must do. Besides where do you buy a ball o/s?
But keep these articles coming – great fun.
November 24th 2010 @ 8:57am
beaver fever said | November 24th 2010 @ 8:57am | Report comment
http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/08/18/afl-not-so-welcome-in-irish-heartland/
Here’s another article on the Roar of you being quite critical of our native game, do you have a axe to grind ?.
BTW the International rules team was very welcome in the Emerald isle.
November 24th 2010 @ 1:18pm
Eamonn Flanagan said | November 24th 2010 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Beaver Fever
I’m your critical friend.
Btw: Is your “native game” a bully.
Should I not be consistent? Should I not be critical of your “native game?” Would you prefer I bend with the Sherrin, occasionally bounce for the AFL, occasionally against…but never consistent.
There are a lot of AFL baggers of football in this country, from your great leader down, and a few others on this site; fair enough. Australia deserves at least one consistent bagger of AFL doesn’t it.
I’m happy to be that critical friend.
November 24th 2010 @ 3:22pm
beaver fever said | November 24th 2010 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
No, i agree, you are a extremely consistent bagger of Australian football and the AFL, ( your words) and there are a few extremely consistent baggers on this thread, so i am not suprised that in all of Ireland you could not find one person to say something positive about Australians native game.
But to be fair, you were not aware that of what the initials GAA stood for, so perhaps your research was not very deep.
November 24th 2010 @ 9:03am
Redb said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:03am | Report comment
The fact remains that no matter what international growth or development is discussed for AFL footy there will always be someone who says my house is bigger. It is not the point.
November 24th 2010 @ 9:39am
Kermit is a frog said | November 24th 2010 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Eamonn –
No kid will stick with it outside Southern Australia where Dad and the media tell him what he must do.
I can point you to a couple of dozen Danish lads who have grown up with Aust Footy (in Farum) and now at age 18, 20, 22 have a career spanning 10 years and 100-200 games of footy.
Likewise in Canada.
Besides where do you buy a ball o/s?
Balls are imported…..not always a sherrin though, Burley are very involved in footy overseas, including the wide, very wide, variety of jumper designs created.
check out pages 8 and 9 of the Burley Sekem brochure .