Should a Wallaby fan cheer for the All Blacks?
Roar Guru By Gladfop, 25 Nov 2010 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
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- All Blacks, Berrick Barnes, new zealand all blacks, Quade Cooper, Rugby Union, Rugby World Cup, wallabies
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Call me a traitor and a turncoat but, on this tour, if I have the choice of watching the Wallabies or the All Blacks, I’ll watch the All Blacks. Because they keep winning? No. Because I like watching intelligent, expansive rugby, and that’s the kind of rugby the All Blacks are playing and the Wallabies aren’t.
The All Blacks are gelling so well that I believe the team currently on display will be the RWC team, give or take a few possible changes which will only add to their collective talent.
Conversely, the present Wallaby team will/should be considerably different with Horwill, Vickerman and Palu back for a start. But unless two hulking, mobile props are suddenly discovered during next year’s Super series, no amount of coaching or bullying a scrum machine will save the scrum from collapse in NZ in the Big Show.
And seeing that all the major teams have reliable penalty kickers, it’s not looking too good for the green and gold from this far out.
As for the players behind the pack, nobody would have predicted a month ago that Berrick Barnes would be the first back penciled in for the RWC side. But he is now due to his ability to kick penalties. And his droppy isn’t too shabby either, a weapon that won at least three major games in past World Cups.
But where to play him? At 10?
That puts Cooper on the bench which may be no bad thing given that defence is paramount in a World Cup.
However, if the selectors leave Cooper at 10 and play Barnes at 12 they interrupt the thrust that was on show in HK as Barrick is not a sensational runner. I believe they’ll play him at 5/8 and go with AAC at 12 and Ioane at 13 to counter the Nonu, SBW/Smith pairings, and have a midfield capable of busting out on their own.
Beale remains at 15 and the wingers are the form players between Mitchell, JOC, Turner, Hynes and Davies if he shows enough in the Super games. As for the 9 spot, Genia played injured, is injured again, and may lose the start next year if Burgess can pass straight.
So, excepting those two props, the Wallabiess will have a whole raft of world-class players in a team that, so far, can’t be relied upon to play the rugby it’s capable of.
And until it becomes capable of not letting its fans down, I’m watching the All Blacks if I have the choice.
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November 25th 2010 @ 5:24am
johnny-boy said | November 25th 2010 @ 5:24am | Report comment
It’s not surprising there is a determined push to get Cooper. I’d be worried too. There’s no doubt about it the All Blacks are a lay down misere for the World Cup
. I cant wait ……I dont know why other teams even bother to turn up ….even australians are turning away from their team to support the All Blacks. Pull the other one. Oh – you already have been ?
November 25th 2010 @ 5:36am
Mickster said | November 25th 2010 @ 5:36am | Report comment
While you are supporting your `new winning team` the All Black fans will be looking down their noses at you singing `…Johnny come lately there`s a new kid in town…`.
November 25th 2010 @ 5:47am
grandpabhaile said | November 25th 2010 @ 5:47am | Report comment
Here’s Chris Rattue on the subject of All Blacks:
“the glories of another impending, triumphant, all-conquering, heroic and historical Grand Slam march by the mighty men in black but … well, let’s just say the feeling’s gone.
England, snooooooooooze, Scotland, zzzzzzzzzzz, Ireland, yaaaaaaawn, Wales, zzzzzzzzz …
Trudging off to the northern plains to fight these second-rate cart horses every year isn’t floating the boat any more.
South Africa’s travails against Scotland have restored a bit of lustre to the All Blacks’ achievements. And you can’t blame the All Blacks for winning so easily all the time.
But let’s face it – we only keep going there year after year for the money and because there’s nowhere else to go.
This year’s final test opponents, Wales, haven’t beaten the All Blacks since the days when you had to warm the wireless up before listening to a footy match.
Who are Wales kidding, holding a team crisis meeting after last weekend’s draw with Fiji? Fiji should hold the crisis talks.
Grand Slam. Yeah right. Ireland are loveable losers. Can anyone actually name anyone in the Scottish team? And England are celebrating after losses these days whereas we once laughed at them for celebrating a draw.
The All Blacks have trundled past that lot in third gear……”
November 25th 2010 @ 6:22am
Ben S said | November 25th 2010 @ 6:22am | Report comment
Wow. He sounds like a really good journalist. I really must go out and investigate some work of his work.
November 25th 2010 @ 6:31am
Darwin Stubbie said | November 25th 2010 @ 6:31am | Report comment
Chris Rattue – good god, the Herald have on the whole some decent journo’s – but this bloke deserves to be in a tabloid
November 25th 2010 @ 6:32am
Matt said | November 25th 2010 @ 6:32am | Report comment
That’s the same Chris Rattue who caused all the fuss not so long ago when the AB’s were about to play Wales and he started calling them the Village Idiots of world rugby.
And you can bet that if the Welsh came out all fired up from being called a second-rate cart horse and beat the All Blacks then Chris Rattue will be scathing of the AB’s and be calling for Henry to resign and for Deans to be reinstated. Such is the pencilled product of the all to common sensationalist journalist these days. Write something to cause a stir, increase your comments/hits and increase your pay.
It certainly helps to reinforce the stereotype that sees the collective rugby world believe that the All Blacks and their fans are arrogant, when in fact it’s just a small group making the rest of us look bad.
Personally I love getting up at 3am or 6am to watch the European tour. I wish it was more of a tour too, with geniune midweek matches and test series against a nation to build something into it. I hate to see the AB’s lose, but the Grand Slam is still “floating the boat” for me.
I think one thing that Rattue did touch on, but hardly emphasised is that all these games are really being played for the money and because there’s no where else to go. But the FACT is that there are plenty of other places to go. Nations like Russia, Georgia, Japan, USA, Romania, Spain, Portugal and Canada would LOVE to have the All Blacks, Boks or Wallabies tour their nation. But it’s never going to happen until the money can be guaranteed. And the money will never be guaranteed until revenue sharing at test match level happens. The NZRU make as much from those extra NH tour games (outside the IRB window) as they do from the Tri-Nations. And teams like Ireland at the weekend would have made a truck load of profit from the AB’s game, but in return the AB’s can’t make the same from hosting Ireland.
So, until the SH teams can make similar money as the NH teams then touring to other nations will never happen.
November 25th 2010 @ 7:18am
Mungehead said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Rattue is our Jones, only he changes his tune from week to week. He’ll say anything as long as it’s sensationalist. Honestly, he’s just not worth quoting.
November 25th 2010 @ 7:23am
Tap Hole said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:23am | Report comment
He’s a perfect quote slut. That’s what he writes for.
November 25th 2010 @ 7:30am
Seiran said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:30am | Report comment
Too much Poth Ale tonight??
November 25th 2010 @ 10:00am
SamSport said | November 25th 2010 @ 10:00am | Report comment
I agree with everyone above that Rattue isn’t worth reading. He definitely is the NZ equivalent of Stephen Jones, and like Jones, I don’t bother reading anything he writes anymore (I’ve given both of them enough chances to prove they have something insightful to say). On top of the fact he doesn’t really offer any insight, is nearly ALWAYS negative about the All Blacks (even when they are winning), and isn’t particularly funny, you can also be assured that 80% of his articles are simply re-hashes of previous ones. I’m sure the “its boring that the All Blacks keep winning” article has been written by him a good dozen times.
November 25th 2010 @ 6:19am
Geoff Brisbane said | November 25th 2010 @ 6:19am | Report comment
I guess it is the quality of play I enjoy. the All Blacks at moment seem to be only ones consistently producing good quality rugby. Where as Boks are boring and the Wallabies are hot and cold (mostly cold in recent times) England have lifted their game significantly and the other NH teams seem to lift the level when they play SH teams
I support rugby that when played well is a spectacle to behold i.e Ireland v NZ was a pretty good quality of rugby. NZ v Aust most times produce a high level of rugby.
November 25th 2010 @ 6:36am
Hamster said | November 25th 2010 @ 6:36am | Report comment
Once an ardent All Black hater, I have to say that I have so much time for the team these days. I think the advent of Super Rugby has increased my appreciation of Kiwi players enormously.
However, I’ll never choose to watch an AB game over the Wallabies. However badly they are playing, they are representing my country and that’s good enough reason to get behind them. I feel Aussie supporters are becoming increasingly fairweather and need to remember that at the end of the day it’s just a game and there are greater problems in the world than not having enough fat kids to play prop. I personally blame the fight against childhood obesity…
November 25th 2010 @ 7:19am
sheek said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:19am | Report comment
I always look back nostalgically to the Wallabies of 1980-84. Why?
Well, because for that entire ridiculously brief 5 year period, a guy called Mark Ella played flyhalf for the Wallabies. A magician of the hands, time & space. He could put a player through a gap despite the closest scrutiny.
As my brother observed, while he was a lazy trainer off the field, there was nothing lazy about him on the pitch. He passed & backed up incessantly, always insuring the ball remained “alive”.
But even so, he only played 25 tests out of a possible 30 tests in that time.
I say ‘only’ because he had to compete with another guy called Paul McLean, who wasn’t too bad either, although more conservative.
1980-84 also two other brilliant, elusive, naturally gifted backs participate. Both were Canberra born. The first was Michael O’Connor, a centre/winger & the second was David Campese, a winger/fullback.
O’Connor played a ridiculously few 12 tests for the Wallabies before defecting to league where he continued his wonderful career, playing numerous tests for the Kangaroos, State of Origin for NSW, & winning a premiership with Manly-Warringah.
Campese of course, we know of. There was also the smooth running winger Brendan Moon, & the space launching boot of Roger Gould. In the forwards, we had tough nuts like Mark Loane, Simon Poidevin & Tony Shaw.
There were lots of good Wallabies around back then, but the problem with the amateur era, was getting them all onto the paddock at the same time. Or preventing them defecting to league for bigger bucks.
Have a look at this best composite Wallabies XV form 1980-84:
15-Roger Gould, 14-David Campese, 13-Michael O’Connor, 12-Michael Hawker, 11-Brendan Moon, 10-Mark Ella, 9-John Hipwell, 8-Mark Loane, 7-Simon Poidevin, 6-Tony Shaw, 5-Steve Williams, 4-David Hillhouse, 3-Andy McIntyre, 2-Billy Ross, 1-Tony D’Arcy. Bench: 22-Glen Ella, 21-Andy Slack, 20-Phil Cox, 19-Greg Cornelsen, 18-Steve Cutler, 17-Stan Pilecki, 16-Tom Lawton.
Some of the 1984 Grand Slam crew (Farr-Jones, Lynagh, Codey) aren’t included simply because they were just starting out. Topo Rodriguez might never have made himself available for the Wallabies had D’Arcy still been around in 1984.
We watch sport to be entertained, to have our spirits lifted. To take our minds off the drudgery of our daily lives. I also want to watch intelligent, expansive rugby. I want the players to compete as if it means something worthwhile to them.
While the Wallabies remain my number one team, I also love watching the All Blacks play, because the way they play is the way everyone ought to play. But won’t. Or can’t.
As the SAS motto proudly proclaims – “Who dares, wins”……….
November 25th 2010 @ 7:21am
Tap Hole said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:21am | Report comment
More from Chris:
“from this side of the world these tours mean diddly squat because by about the time the early morning cuppa tea has gone lukewarm, so have the Irish or the Scots.
Every time.
You can’t keep squashing inept opponents year after year and also promote them as a meaningful foe.
I did happen upon one very animated discussion about the current tour last Saturday night – on the eve of the glorious battle against the Irish – which centred entirely on the riveting subject of Sonny Bill William’s hand size, a debate sparked by the Herald’s groundbreaking decision to print a lifesize drawing of the Williams mitt.
That’s about the state of play – haka controversies, Sonny Bill’s hand size, record test appearances, Dan Carter’s points record … etc, etc.
Graham Henry is probably right. Wales will come out with all guns blazing on Sunday morning. Maybe.
But blazing guns should be par for the course for any self-respecting test team. Sustained, meaningful success at this level relies on the quality of players and strategies, both immediate and in the overall organisation of the sport.
You could say that Wales have a terrific halfback in the lanky Mike Phillips, and beyond that the stocks are mainly fairly hairy.
And rivalries depend on both teams having a chance of victory at least some of the time. So, with what remains of any enthusiasm – all together now, come on Wales, try to make a game of it. Please.”
Great stuff. He must be related to Stephen Jones.
November 25th 2010 @ 7:55am
kingplaymaker said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Tap Hole Wales are actually one of the better northern hemisphere teams in terms of player quality but have wafer-thin depth and so when any of their players are injured the whole comes crumbling down. I think Hook is one of the best players and would do them a lot of good at fly-half although he wouldn’t be as steady as Jones. Gavin Henson’s good when fit, Williams and North might be ok together, the front row’s fine, Martyn Williams and Powell can play well so overall it’s not so bad. Ireland have a far worse team for example, although arguably a better pack.
November 25th 2010 @ 8:05am
Tap Hole said | November 25th 2010 @ 8:05am | Report comment
I’m still back with your ZERO motivation comment for the ABs, KPM. Which left you with ZERO credibility unfortunately.
November 25th 2010 @ 11:18am
kingplaymaker said | November 25th 2010 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Especially when it almost perfectly matched my score prediction, while your prediction, doubtless based on your interpretation, was miles off. 5 point win to Ireland..very credible.
November 25th 2010 @ 10:13pm
Ben S said | November 25th 2010 @ 10:13pm | Report comment
A 10 point difference isn’t a perfect prediction, no?
November 26th 2010 @ 6:48am
bayboy said | November 26th 2010 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Still closer than what Pot Hale predicted Ben S.
Is it too hard for you and him to accept someone else could be right?
Who the hell do you two think you are to come on a site like this and lambast anyone who dares think differently to you!
November 25th 2010 @ 7:27am
Monty said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:27am | Report comment
When I read this headline I thought the premise of the article was going to be something along the lines of cheering for the All Blacks if theyre not playing the Wallabies, which I do.
However to suggest that you will watch the All Blacks over the Wallabies becasue the Blacks play “intelligent, expansive rugby” is just ludicrous to me! I cant believe any normal Wallaby supporter would suggest such I thing. Can you honestly think any All Black supporter would watch the Wallabies if the shoe was on the other foot? No, of course not!
November 25th 2010 @ 1:07pm
Winston said | November 25th 2010 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
It never is on the other foot
November 25th 2010 @ 10:11pm
Holty said | November 25th 2010 @ 10:11pm | Report comment
It has been before and will be again!
November 26th 2010 @ 1:13am
goldenbull said | November 26th 2010 @ 1:13am | Report comment
I agree 100% and would go as far as saying your not a true wallaby supporter, where you born in australia?
November 26th 2010 @ 6:50am
bayboy said | November 26th 2010 @ 6:50am | Report comment
So do you have to be born in Australia now to be a Wallabies supporter?
This is a far cry from a month or so when there was a debate about being Australian.
What a joke GB you come up with some rather outlandish comments
November 25th 2010 @ 7:28am
Taniwha said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Yes Rattue is a bit of a national embarrassment really. I actually look at what he sayes and know the opposite will happen becuase that is the level of knowledge and wisdom. I am yet to meet any one who generally likes his writing, but as others have said, it is all about page hits and number of comments tehse days.
November 25th 2010 @ 7:30am
sheek said | November 25th 2010 @ 7:30am | Report comment
Re Cooper’s flirtation with playing league, I suggest the following exchange.
Wallabies will take the kiwi-born Benji Marshall for the kiwi-born Quade Cooper.
No problem that Marshall plays league for the Kiwis. Brad Thorn did it in reverse, going from Kangaroos to All Blacks. No problem Marshall going from Kiwis to Wallabies.
I thought I would never see the day, but Marshall might be better than Ella ever was. At present I’ll say as good as, but my fear is he’s actually better. Cooper at present is merely a pretender……….
November 25th 2010 @ 10:40am
Wylie said | November 25th 2010 @ 10:40am | Report comment
I’m with you on this one Sheek. I’m fairly sure Marshall has already played touch football for Australia so perhaps we can argue that he’s already Australian.
November 25th 2010 @ 2:51pm
JB said | November 25th 2010 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Hmm… I once saw Larkham watch a Bledisloe with Benji when Larkham was injured. Only problem was the Benji was wearing an all black scarf…