Why are Clarke and Ponting not facing the axe?
Roar Guru By stillmissit, 6 Dec 2010 stillmissit is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Ashes, Australia cricket, Cricket, Michael Clarke, Ricky Ponting, Test cricket, The Ashes
I am an interested watcher of cricket rather than a committed ex player or knowledgeable tragic. I understand why Mitchell, Hilfenhouse, North and co are either dropped or about to be. But I don’t understand why there is never any mention of Clarke’s failures, which seem to have been obvious for at least a year or so.
He also strikes me as a guy who has never grown up. I watched him coming out onto the field in the Gabba Test, when all looked lost and Australia needed to pull out an extraordinary effort. Clarke was laughing and joking with another player and it made me wonder if his mind was on the huge effort required or something else.
The second culprit is Ponting, who was an average captain with a great team under him to a poor captain with an average team under him. Most great captains – I am thinking of Border when I say this – will stand up if the rest of the team sits down. Ponting seems unable to lift this team by his own efforts.
I do not understand why commentators do not discuss this situation and seem to always have an excuse for Clarke and Ponting’s failures with the bat and as captain.
I fully accept that Ponting is one of the all-time great batsmen, but as captain he strikes me as reactive and conservative, or just plain unreadable. My bigoted view of watching him makes me suspect he is not that smart.
I wonder if this Ashes series will bring home just how poorly we have handled the transition from a world beating team to rebuilding with a young team.
I think it is time that both the captain and the vice-captain came under some serious focus in terms of what they can add to build a new team.
Recommend this story.
The Turkey 10
The Turkey 10 teams have now been selected, as Wild Turkey Bourbon's sport sponsorship kicks into the next exciting phase.
Choose which side you're going to support and get in the running to win $2,500!
Simply visit Wild Turkey Australia on Facebook for your chance to win.
Find out more.
- Explore:
- Ashes, Australia cricket, Cricket, Michael Clarke, Ricky Ponting, Test cricket, The Ashes
December 6th 2010 @ 6:09am
Tone said | December 6th 2010 @ 6:09am | Report comment
Agreed.
Firstly, congratulations England. Spendid effort. I just wish our guys had the same heart.!
Question:
What do the following players have in common:
-Hughes(unlucky to get axed after a nearly cacth by Strause..unfortunate twitter too..)
-Hodge(best batsman in the short form of the game)
-Tate(Australias fastest bowler..quit for a year)
-Krayzr(Australias only tweaker of the ball)
-Symonds(likable characher…gave Pup some curry and payed for it)
They all were bannished after a run in with Ricky and Puppy’s private boys club.!
December 6th 2010 @ 6:15am
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 6:15am | Report comment
I didn’t realise that Symonds was dumped for this reason. I thought he was a great cricketer with a couple of seasons left in him. Krayzr I don’t understand I thought he was the best of the spin triers we have had in the last couple of years.
How come the press doesn’t discuss these issues?
December 6th 2010 @ 6:23am
Vinay Verma said | December 6th 2010 @ 6:23am | Report comment
stillmissit,Symonds for North looks pretty appealling at the moment. I still maintain if you don’t have a class spinner go with four quicks. The windies did it for a decade and a half. In saying that I don’t think Siddle,harris and Bollinger are quite Marshall,Roberts and Holding.
December 6th 2010 @ 6:30pm
Fisher Price said | December 6th 2010 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
Symonds should never have played Test cricket. He is a grade-standard batsman who can slog.
December 6th 2010 @ 9:59pm
Oli said | December 6th 2010 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
Symonds was a valuable test cricketer who could turn the course of a game by himself, so how do you come to that conclusion? Also I would much rather have him in the team than North.
December 6th 2010 @ 6:51pm
Tone said | December 6th 2010 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
Krazyr had a run with the leadership group during the Perth test….that is all I know. It is very in house.
It has been stated on SEN radio a few times.
Funny…to answer your question.
How many Journalist comentate Aussie cricket. barely any. Maybe the dullsit tones of Jeromy Nicolas..
They are all ex-cricketters. They all are reluctant to bad their mates.
Quote..unquote..D.Hookes. ‘If you intend to comentate cricket, then you have to be prepared to lose friends’.!
December 6th 2010 @ 8:59am
Ben said | December 6th 2010 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Tait can hardly make it through a 20/20 match let alone a test
December 6th 2010 @ 8:58pm
M1tch said | December 6th 2010 @ 8:58pm | Report comment
I think Symonds is the exemption to be honest, he made the side in the first place because he brought ‘something’ to the team. No doubt though you have to be in the buddy boys club, Michael Conn alluded to that when talking about Hodge when he was dropped for Martyn
December 6th 2010 @ 6:52am
Grimmace said | December 6th 2010 @ 6:52am | Report comment
Exactly right!!!. Clarke has been playing poorly for a while, and was barely fit enough to walk to the middle in Brisbane, let alone do anything useful. Is it that he was anointed as the next captain so early on and made a rod for the selectors back and are now reluctant to drop him? Or are CA worried that dropping thier poster boy would be too embarrasing?
– I might be a bit cynical there
You can bag out the bowlers as much as you like. We don’t have 2 x ’1 in a generation’ blowlers anymore. Australia needs a batting lineup that can score in the order of 700 runs per test to give the bowlers something to bowl at. We may not win every test then, but we swon’t loose them.
Its times like theese when the senior players need to stand up and I have real doubts that our current vice-captain has it in him
December 6th 2010 @ 7:04am
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 7:04am | Report comment
Grimmace – If I was a selector Clarke would have had his last hint about performance and standing up. I think you are right about his early appointment as FC.
We need the senior players to stand firm and at the moment it strikes me that they are going out there to ‘play their natural game’ not to save the game. They need to harden up.
December 6th 2010 @ 7:12am
Short-Blind. said | December 6th 2010 @ 7:12am | Report comment
Clarke – when someone of his age and (relatively) paltry achievements starts talking about himself in the 3rd person you know that ego has overtaken ability. Grimmace is correct – ACB have annointed him (stupidly) way too early and included him in so much marketing that they just can’t bear to drop him. If he was not a NSWelshman he might have been sent back to the Sheffield Shield (ala M. Hayden) to find himself and fight his way back in the team. Picking him unfit is a disgrace as well.
Ponting – unfortunately this once in a generation batsmen is just not that bright. stillmissit is on the money – Ponting is from backwater Launceston with limited (outside cricket) education and seems to be a boy in a man’s job. That the ACB don’t recognise this as possibly being an issue when when choosing their captains is reflective of that institution. We need a clean out but Sutherland doesn’t have the balls to do it.
December 6th 2010 @ 7:22am
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Interesting SHort-blind. Maybe the clean out should begin at the top?
Fish rot from the head (old Greek saying you all would have heard). If we did do a clean out what would the downside be to what we are enduring now? Who would the new team contain and who would be captain?
I would be extremely reluctant to drop Ponting as a batsman, providing he will continue without the captains hat. If not then we move on to a brave new world.
December 6th 2010 @ 10:20am
Bob said | December 6th 2010 @ 10:20am | Report comment
A couple of failures and everybody is asking for the heads. Why is it that CA and the selectors get off so lightly? Posters would be better off asking questions such as-
1. Why have no young players been given a go? The West Indies and Pakistan series would have been perfect.
2. Instead of preparing for the Ashes why have we been playing in India (not a good place for your fast bowlers to get into form or even to stay healthy) then playing ODIs against Sri Lanka. We have the best domestic competition in the world- why not take full advantage of it when helping our guys prepare.
3. With all the talent available how come we can’t develop one world class spin bowler? Surely the selectors could have done some advance planning.
4. Our test players are well paid- can’t we ask them to chose between test cricket and T20 fast money. I’m pretty sure I know which one most guys will choose.
5. Who is our fielding coach. Can’t he teach players how to catch?
If we want to be no 1 again we need to take test cricket seriously- not assume we can turn up and automatically win- making scapegoats of the players will not solve the bigger problems.
December 6th 2010 @ 10:26am
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Good points Bob BUT you and I know that the selectors are appointed by CA and any major sporting administrator will never admit a mistake or worse a failure.
The best we can hope for is moving towards rebuilding. What I don’t want to see happen is what Eddie Jones did to my sport Rugby, he just hung on and kept old players on and denied youngsters a real go. Then it gets really hard to rebuild.
If cricket goes down the same path as rugby we could be out of the top for 10 years maybe longer.
December 6th 2010 @ 10:41am
Bob said | December 6th 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
In the past the selectors (with the exception of Border) always refused to allow our greats to play beyond their use by dates. Tubby, the Waughs, Boon, Jones and Slater all had to be told that their time was up. Do you think the current crop of selectors are tough enough to stand up to the players?
December 6th 2010 @ 12:05pm
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Bob you are talking about another age where players were held responsible and selectors took a strong view about the future of Australian Cricket.
These days it seems more about keeping a leaking boat afloat and trying to please others. Maybe we are living in a reality bypass?
December 6th 2010 @ 12:19pm
captain nemo said | December 6th 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
I hope so Bob
December 6th 2010 @ 12:03pm
Rob McLean said | December 6th 2010 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Bob, your responses are the best reply to this story. I share many of your thoughts.
Some of the rest are very average.
As for the contention from others that Hughes, Hodges, Tait and Symonds had run ins with the Punter and Pup Club. Very silly.
Hodges’ reputation as a team player is very poor by all accounts and is well known throughout senior cricket ranks (that’s only rumour but so is the fact that he fell foul of Ponting).
Tait is injury prone. No question about that.
Symonds’ off field discipline cost him his career, no one else – remember it was Ponting that stuck with him when everyone else thought he was a wasted talent.
As for Hughes, I think with Katich and Watson the preferred choices as openers at the moment, he’s a bit of a way back. Neither did he set the world on fire when given his most recent chance in the test line-up.
However, maybe we could look at playing him down the order…
December 6th 2010 @ 12:15pm
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Rob – Isn’t it nice to give yourself a pat on the back whilst pouring faint praise on another?
My view as a member of the Roar for a few years is that all posts are worthwhile. Some are more worthwhile than others but everyone is entitled to a view and to receive criticism of that view. That is how the Roar has been successful where others have failed.
To bring it back on subject, I am very interested in who could make it in a rebuilt Australian Cricket team. Do I take it from your thought out critic of Bob’s post that we are bereft of players and just have to await the next great crop? If not who would you suggest to bring in?
December 6th 2010 @ 1:09pm
Rob McLean said | December 6th 2010 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
I’m sorry if my thoughts upset you SMI.
I didn’t say their opinions weren’t worthwhile, just less worthwhile (to paraphrase yourself).
Is saying they are “average” not criticism? A trait of this site that you say you enjoy.
I then backed up my thoughts on those posts by providing my thoughts on one which I felt was “average”.
If I did so in an insulting way, I am sorry. I’m only a new poster to this site, granted, and don’t have your “few years” experience here.
But unlike others in the on line world, I didn’t just trash someone and offer no further development of the conversation. Maybe, when having a crack at others, you should choose targets who haven’t done so and aren’t attempting to provide something to the debate.
As for my thoughts on the line-up?
Johnno is our first choice bowler and on song would make all the difference to this current attack which seems to have three first change bowlers plus a spinner.
Ferguson could easily come in for North, although with our spin issue unresolved, we need him as another bowling option.
George has shown in his one test (although on the pace unfriendly Indian wickets) but more importantly in the Australia A match that he is not ready yet to take a lead role in THIS attack.
Maybe with a firing Johnno, thereby lessening the pressure on George to make every post a winner, he would be worth a shot.
Having said all of that, we have to accept that our bowling attack is not going to be as good as it was.
They need to work to the best of their ability and our batsmen need to set the scene for them to have something to defend. Basic cricket.
Our keeping stocks are very high. Haddin is not our best keeper. He is our best batsman/keeper.
Tim Paine, Graham Manou and Luke Ronchi have all represented the nation. Good keepers too.
Other batsmen we could consider are Cam White or Steve Smith, who could play a Symonds like role.
In the current line-up Ponting must stay but maybe drop from three. If Pup is to be skipper, he also has to be our best batsman, so he should move to three.
Hussey, thankfully, has returned to form.
Could we see a batting order of Katich, Watson, Clark, Haddin, Ponting, Hussey, Paine, followed by the four bowlers?
Probably not, as unlike in the past, when we could get away with McGrath and Warne with two others, we need the extra bowler – in today’s climate North, or an ‘allrounder’ in White or Smith (as stated above).
Most importantly of all – Ponting needs to lead the country more efficiently. At this stage, I don’t see another leader out there, so he’s the man.
Pup is not ready to captain. Hussey is too old – they will be looking for someone more long term. Haddin, to me, is the only other option, but we know how loathe the selectors are to pick a keeper as skipper.
I think if Punter, at this late stage, can become a stronger leader, his troops will follow and we will see rapid improvement in our team. Is he up to it?
December 6th 2010 @ 1:24pm
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Agree with most you say Rob. I wonder if Katich is captain material as Jameswm suggests below. With Johnson firing then our need for outright pace diminishes and line and length should become more important and I think Ryan Harris has shown some of that in this test.
With Ponting failing again (a few minutes ago) I do hope some pressure from outside, rather than his own fear of failure, is put on him. These guys are well paid and are not exempt from a tap on the shoulder to suggest they need to lift their game.
The commentators are on the wagon as soon as Clarke is in, claiming he is ‘hard on himself’ ‘had a session in the nets with Ponting a couple of days ago’ as if this is exceptional, then this one ‘he needs to back himself to get his feet moving to get his confidence back’. He will have another good patch at some stage but what is the cost?
December 6th 2010 @ 1:42pm
Rob McLean said | December 6th 2010 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Katich is one I hadn’t thought of.
Certainly bloody minded enough.
Does he have the respect of the players? I don’t know.
He has a history of straightening people up if you believe the story that he had Pup up against a wall in the changerooms last season (?).
The commentators are on the wagon – you’re right.
I heard an ABC voice today saying that Justin Langer had seen the batsmen in the nets this morning and “they were creaming them”.
I cringed when I heard that, as Langer is Australia’s biggest cheerleader.
December 6th 2010 @ 11:33am
Hutchoman said | December 6th 2010 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Ponting because he is arguably the best Australian bat since Bradman.
Clarke because he must have photos.
December 6th 2010 @ 11:58am
Jason said | December 6th 2010 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Ponting hasn’t been a great batsman for abotu 3 years. In that time he is averaging the same as Haddin.
December 6th 2010 @ 1:01pm
Jason said | December 6th 2010 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Another failure today for Ponting.
December 6th 2010 @ 1:05pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2010 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
I’d bat Ponting at 5 and relieve him of the captaincy. Ktich is the smartest, toughest and most creative of the lot. And he has their respect.
December 6th 2010 @ 2:13pm
Tom Dimanis said | December 6th 2010 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
I agree Katich is just the captain Australia need, but it’s too late.
December 6th 2010 @ 1:13pm
sittingbison said | December 6th 2010 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
Ponting is past it, he is delivering the sporadic performances they all do in decline. Clarke should be rested with injury, and never considered as a captain. North dropped for White who should be next captain. At the end of this series Ponting Kat Huss and Haddin should all be retired, they might be performing now but are all too old we need to look to the future and re-establish the proper order where generations are not skipped by keeping players too long. Get rid of Nielsen, and sack the selectors who pick clearly injured players and drop half the attack after one game.
The
December 6th 2010 @ 2:47pm
Cricket Burble said | December 6th 2010 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Ponting and Clarke are class batsmen. Ponting’s recent form drop saw him averaging 45 over the last year coming into the ashes I read…most batsmen would be happy with that when on top form.
The Australian selectors need to avoid making the mistake that the lower ranked sides tend to make (eg. England in the late 90s) and drop their best players because they aren’t winning. Then the losing pattern continues because it’s not even the best XI playing. Although Ponting and Clarke’s captaincy credentials are open to question, they are certainties when fit.
December 6th 2010 @ 2:54pm
stillmissit said | December 6th 2010 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
Cricket – I agree when fit AND producing. Ponting still seems dangerous to me for an ageing player but a few years ago he would have had his marching orders this season.
Clarke I ain’t sure, to me he seems to be trying hard but it ain’t happening. In cricket if it ain’t happening the old story was, relegated to shield to get your mojo back, rather than let them find form playing for your country. I agree with the old system and he should go back to shield regardless of if he gets a decent hit in this match. You can only plan on reality not on hopes.
December 6th 2010 @ 5:37pm
Hutchoman said | December 6th 2010 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
The problem these days is that international players don’t play Shield (other than the odd game), except when dropped and put out to pasture for 2+ years. There was a time when a class player could easily slot into 3 Shield games and not “get dropped” to do so. Nowadays, there are no gaps in the schedule for this to occur.
December 6th 2010 @ 7:17pm
Bob said | December 6th 2010 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
Which is a big part in our decline in the test rankings. Why is it that we have a mad rush to finish the test series by New Year to embark on a series of totally meaningless, boring 50 over games that no body can remember 2 weeks later. I see everybody recalling every detail of the 70-71 or 06-07 ashes, but who can recall last summers ODI’s?
The sooner 50 over cricket dies the better. Then our players can start and finish each summer sharpening themselves in a proper test of their skills- The Sheffield Shield.
December 6th 2010 @ 6:20pm
Jason said | December 6th 2010 @ 6:20pm | Report comment
Ponting’s average over that period is massively skewed by his 206 against Pakistan where he was dropped giving a sitter to a known spot fixer.
He seems to have forgotten how to fight in an innings. Even in India his 3 x 70s were a disappointment.
December 6th 2010 @ 7:42pm
Danno1 said | December 6th 2010 @ 7:42pm | Report comment
Hells bells what a negative crew!!
It is a given that Australia is going through a dark period, however Ponting is still without question one of the best batsmen in Australia at this point in time. So is Clarke, despite his appalling self indulgence in declaring himself fit for the Gabba.
As mentioned above the last thing we need to be doing is sacking the captain and vice captain after 9 days of an Ashes series. If the punters had their way before the series started Hussey wouldn’t be in the team now, and Australia would be suffering even more heavily.
The young batsmen everyone mentions are not exactly setting the shield ablaze, and that is despite the Shield comp containing bowlers of a lesser standard than the line-up of first change bowlers that is our current pace attack.
Australia will have to do what happened in the late 80s early 90s identify their top 17-20 players and stick with them.
In that lot I would include Krezja, Hauritz, David Hussey, Steve Smith, Kawaja, the misfiring Mitchell Johnson, either Peter George or Trent Cameron from NSW and maybe Hughes.
I would remove Doherty and North from the existing squad.
On another note it will be interesting to see what happens if Katich is unfit for Perth. Will the selectors use this opportunity to play two new openers and move Watson down to 6 to make his workload more manageable?
Or will they stick with Watson at opener and pick a genuine batsmen at 6? After all if our 4 best bowlers can’t get 20 wickets it is no point weakening the batting by loading the team up with two all rounders.
December 6th 2010 @ 11:19pm
Cricket Burble said | December 6th 2010 @ 11:19pm | Report comment
Jason – I don’t understand your point. You can’t take out a large score made in a set of numbers over a year – that’s what people do when they are trying to support an argument that isn’t backed up by the stats.