How football contributed to the Anzac Spirit
By Ian Syson, 22 Apr 2011 Ian Syson is a Roar Rookie
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- Collingwood, football, melbourne cricket ground, St George, World Cup
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By now, we are familiar with the Anzac Day football rituals. Since 1995, Collingwood and Essendon have battled for Anzac supremacy at the Melbourne Cricket Ground.
Following the AFL’s lead, St George and Eastern Suburbs commemorate the day in the NRL.
It’s a tradition, to which supporters of both codes have been drawn in vast numbers. Both codes supplied a great many troops, who served at Gallipoli and across Europe, many of whom were never to return.
Collingwood lost six players, Essendon seven.
So these clubs’ own histories add to the solemnity of Anzac commemorations.
Yet, football too made its contribution.
Prior to the first World War, the game had undergone something of a renaissance.
Recovering from the depression and energised by waves of migrants, football was blooming.
In Victoria, the Dockerty Cup (starting in 1909) had been a central plank in the game’s growth and club fixtures were regular.
1913 saw the reinstatement of the New South Wales-Victoria clash after 25 years.
Even though plans to form a national association were scuttled by the outbreak of war in 1914, the game soldiered on as best it could.
The Argus of 9 August 1915 reports:
“The annual international match between teams representing England and Scotland, under the auspices of the Victorian Amateur British Football Association took place on Saturday on the Fitzroy Cricket ground the authorities of which on this occasion granted the free use of the ground as net proceeds from the match were to be handed over to Lady Stanley’s fund for Wounded Australian Soldiers.”
Yet, it was clear that the war was taking its toll.
The Argus went on:
“Four of the players who took part in last year’s match are on active service, namely Lowe, Golding, Guthrie and Hyde, the latter of whom is at present in hospital at Plymouth, England, wounded. Of those who took part in Saturday’s encounter 13 of them represented their various countries last year – seven for England and six for Scotland. Three of England’s representatives and two of Scotland’s have enlisted and were relieved by their respective commandants to enable them to take part in Saturday’s match.”
The strong commitment made by footballers to the war effort meant that the suspension of the game was inevitable.
And by 1916, competition was ended, not to be resumed until after the war.
According to the Argus, when football did resume, in 1919:
“At the first annual meeting of the British Association, on June 16, the report covering a period of four years commencing 1915 disclosed the interesting fact that 90 per cent. of the players had enlisted for service abroad or at home. No competitive football had been played during the war.”
Pre-war football had not only grown in the metropolitan region. It was taking root in the country as well. It’s a fact little known that Mildura had a developing competition in this period.
Indeed, the little town of Irymple, just outside Mildura, provides its own story and gestures towards the general tragedy of war.
Of the 11 players pictured in the Irymple team of 1913, five lost their lives.
It’s a story repeated across Australia, across sporting organisations of all codes
The Irymple tragedy underlines a question that many in the football community have asked: why don’t we, in football, honour the Anzac legend with a celebration similar to those arranged by other codes?
State federations have moved in this direction, but when will the national body take the lead?
http://vulgar.com.au/libero/anzac.html
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April 22nd 2011 @ 8:13am
peeeko said | April 22nd 2011 @ 8:13am | Report comment
the a league finished a month ago, we could have an annual match against NZ or Turkey but it would have to coincide with the FIFA international calendar
April 22nd 2011 @ 8:59am
nordster said | April 22nd 2011 @ 8:59am | Report comment
true, we do have an ongoing rivalry with NZ, so we play them pretty regular. There’s been anzac games with Turkey in the past at different age levels.
I’d rather it be as it is, than be set as some locked-in match every year. With internationals in football its not really practical.
As an alternative ??? World Peace Day is September… a multi-national tournament each year involving club teams, works for the A-L lead-in (not so much for touring opponents though).
April 22nd 2011 @ 6:23pm
Trust Me said | April 22nd 2011 @ 6:23pm | Report comment
What about the Annual Friendship Cup football match between Australia and Turkey being played at Gallipoli on ANZAC Day every year?
http://www.feztravel.com/About_Us.asp
We usually send a youth team – Kerem Bulut played in it last year.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:26am
eric said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Do we really need sport to commemorate this day?
April 22nd 2011 @ 1:00pm
Ian Syson said | April 22nd 2011 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
eric, that’s a debate we need to have within the soccer community. I’m not sure we need to commemorate it either but if we are ‘mainstreaming’ the game it’s an idea that should be discussed.
April 22nd 2011 @ 2:00pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Ian .
There are no Soccer Associations all State and Territory’s are Football Federation’s.
April 23rd 2011 @ 11:56pm
Ari Viderci said | April 23rd 2011 @ 11:56pm | Report comment
We got you the first time Bondy, it’s called football!!!
Does Bondy even realise the citizens of the great footballing nations say “soccer”?
Why does he keep jumping on Australians for using “soccer”?
April 24th 2011 @ 12:05am
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:05am | Report comment
ATM they are trying cultural appropiation, but they also have cultural cringe, small man syndrome, soccer chip on shoulder syndrome, jealousy, they got it all.
They are confused in their beliefs, that somehow soccer has played a really important part of Australias sporting history, when in reality it is somewhere between hurling and baseball.
April 24th 2011 @ 12:28am
Ari Viderci said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:28am | Report comment
That’s a bit hard, it’s a significant community sport and I’m a huge fan.
Not sure it works that well for football, having the politically correct brigade jumping all over people for using the “wrong” language. Makes the game about as appealing as radical feminism.
Strange how they’ll fight for the right to use foul language but heaven help anyone who says soccer.
April 24th 2011 @ 12:32am
The Cattery said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:32am | Report comment
We’re all huge fans of soccer – it’s just some of the johnny come lately soccer fans that we don’t like too much!
April 24th 2011 @ 12:48am
Ari Viderci said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:48am | Report comment
Fair enough. Hurling must be bigger than I thought.
Just figured no one here played or Bondy and Fussball would have bagged it by now.
April 24th 2011 @ 12:50am
Aussie Rules said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:50am | Report comment
So us Australians and confused because we play or follow football and you say
“their belief that somehow soccer has played a really importand part of Australian
sporting history. What importance has Australian Rules played in Australian sporting
history? Australian Rules players look like seagulls fighting over a chip. But I can’t
see how you describe football to hurling and baseball…..!
April 24th 2011 @ 12:58am
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:58am | Report comment
@ Ari Verdici, fair enough, maybe i exagerated a bit, i do like hurling though.
Probably more popular in this country in the 1880′s than what it is now, which is a shame.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59576187?searchTerm=collingwood hurling &searchLimits=
Collingwood V Kyneton in 1879, so the game was quite widespread.
April 24th 2011 @ 12:53am
Aussie Rules said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:53am | Report comment
April 22nd 2011 @ 1:43pm
Harry said | April 22nd 2011 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
No Eric.
Getting more and more uneasy as to the increasing commercialisation of Anzac Day. All the football codes have to be very careful about this.
April 22nd 2011 @ 6:30pm
Trust Me said | April 22nd 2011 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
ANZAC Day is commemorated by all walks of life and forms of society including sport and a game of two up – I have no problem with that.
The problems arise when a certain football code is claiming ownership of ANZAC Day all for itself, as though its the only sport that the ANZACs ever played or watched.
This sport is almost unheard of in New Zealand.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:55pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
But if I have understood you correctly, at least 90,000 will gather at our cathedral to watch two old famous clubs of that sport, and they will stand in absolute silence before the bounce of the ball.
In that context, it doesn’t really matter that others have not heard of the game – it only matters that we’ve heard of it, that we follow it in very large numbers, and that there is a clear cut link between the game and our diggers going all the way back to the Boer War.
That’s the thing that mattters.
April 24th 2011 @ 10:35pm
Trust Me said | April 24th 2011 @ 10:35pm | Report comment
Thanks for proving my point Cattery.
All that matters to AFL fans is what AFL fans think.
What AFL fans think is what the AFL media tell them to think.
April 24th 2011 @ 10:46pm
The Cattery said | April 24th 2011 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
Your point was that the game is unknonw in New Zealand.
As it happens, the NZ Herald ran a large story on Australian Football only this very morning.
Here it is:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10721229&ref=rss
Quite timely don’t you think?
April 24th 2011 @ 11:00pm
Trust Me said | April 24th 2011 @ 11:00pm | Report comment
Yes,
the AFL players use NZ for a bit or R&R to take drugs and drink alchohol.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10703554
April 24th 2011 @ 11:06pm
The Cattery said | April 24th 2011 @ 11:06pm | Report comment
Is that an admission that you were wrong?
April 25th 2011 @ 12:37am
Aussie Rules said | April 25th 2011 @ 12:37am | Report comment
I thought it was going to be a true ANZAC Day Australain Rules match with NZ it just might be too, but it just old news been talking about it for years (Hawthorn/Bulldogs) and they call it Australian Rules not Football in NZ and the NZ paper says “once again is looking across the Tasman to continue its growth”.
The AFL is really running setting up team here and there, because of increasing football, League and now Union in Melbourne where there was only Australian Rules as the only weekly major sporting event.
Why cant AFL and NZ start its own team up like with the Gold Cost Sun – Thats because Australian Rules is not that well known in NZ.
April 25th 2011 @ 12:44am
Aussie Rules said | April 25th 2011 @ 12:44am | Report comment
The Cattery – Your said nothing about this NZ newspaper artitcle – You do have the characteristic’s of the AFL who mislead their fans and the people.
“St Kilda are overhauling their player development program as the AFL club reels from the suspension of four players for drug and alcohol-related indiscretions”.,,,,,,,
April 23rd 2011 @ 8:17am
Aussie Rules said | April 23rd 2011 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Trust Me – Good on you, Turst Me.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hyundai-A-League/155632981149854
April 22nd 2011 @ 12:23pm
BigAl said | April 22nd 2011 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Unfortunately, a big part of ‘commemorating’ this day with sport boils down to making money…
April 22nd 2011 @ 12:32pm
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner said | April 22nd 2011 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Dont think, it has ever been any different, as long as a % of money finds it way back to those who really need it, then that is the most you can hope for.
April 22nd 2011 @ 12:46pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Good read.
It would be terrible to think that sporting organisation’s would try to leverage out of the day to promote their sport did more than the others.I hope it’s not being used in that way, the sacrifice of so many.
April 22nd 2011 @ 2:36pm
Pecs McGee said | April 22nd 2011 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
April 22nd 2011 @ 4:29pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | April 22nd 2011 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
I honestly cannot see how playing sport “honours” anyone other than the players.
Sure, the match-day takings can be used to raise money for any worthy cause, but, in my opinion, a sporting contest is not an appropriate way to “honour the departed” … quiet reflection, is an appropriate way to “honour the departed”.
Doesn’t mean Anzac Day sport is wrong, but let’s not make it out to be something noble – it is simply a means to exploit a Public Holiday to make money.
Just as sport on “Good Friday” doesn’t “honour the sacrifice” that Christians hold sacred on this day, but if you feel it’s appropriate no problem.
As an RC I certainly wouldn’t even watch the FIFA WC final, if it were played on Good Friday … but, of course, il Papa is a fanatical Football fan, so this is never going to happen!
April 22nd 2011 @ 5:14pm
Fez's are cool said | April 22nd 2011 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
“rugby league followed suit”
The NSWRL has been playing games on ANZAC day as far back as the 60s, and through the 70s often featured St George and Easts. The NRL has also featured a Melbourne vs New Zealand Warriors game for a few years now – a truer refelction of the ANZAC ethos.
In addition, Australia and New Zealand have been contesting a test match on or near to ANZAC day for a long time.
The NRL has copied nothing.
April 22nd 2011 @ 5:29pm
The_Wookie said | April 22nd 2011 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
Before 1960, nothing was allowed to be played on Anzac Day in Victoria at least, by law. The law was changed and all manner of sporting codes began playing at this time…including the VFL, SANFL and NRL. Collingwood v Essendon is a recent “tradition”. Until this started there were usually two matches on Anzac day. The VFL held its first and last doubleheader at the MCG on Anzac Day in 1986.
In NRL/NSWRL, the Anzac Test – not usually played anywhere near Anzac Day – was a Superleague invention in 1997. The Anzac day match with constant rivals (Roosters and Dragons) seems to have been contested from 2002, however prior to that matches were played fairly regularly from 1926 on.
April 22nd 2011 @ 5:41pm
Cugel said | April 22nd 2011 @ 5:41pm | Report comment
Exactly. So barring up at this recent incarnation seems a little Johnny Come Lately
.
April 22nd 2011 @ 5:52pm
AL said | April 22nd 2011 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
The word ANZAC should NEVER be associated with any Football. Association Football should leave it as it is, better we all go down to Martin place and pay our respects, on the day. Then go to a football game that would have min silence without the bugles etc. The NRL & AFL games use of ANZAC, it stinks of commercialism.
April 22nd 2011 @ 7:16pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 7:16pm | Report comment
Im a member of ancestry.com.au if people have the time they may want to take up this free offer over the long weekend.
http://www.ancestry.com.au/anzac2011?o_xid=47795&o_lid=47795
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:01pm
John said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:01pm | Report comment
Is this a joke? Please tell me what possible connection is there between soccer and servicemen (both ex and current), that has any imprint in the conciousness of today’s society.
OK lets say there is a game. How many of the old diggers would attend? What stories would these men tell of there youth playing and watching soccer. Tell me dear readers, who from the soccer fraternity is likely to sit and ‘have a few beers’ after this supposed ANZAC game with a couple of the diggers at the local RSL. Les Murray Robbie Kruse? Melbourne coach Mehmet Durakovic? Give me a break.
These service men types are more likely (not exclusively) to play and watch your usual Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rubgy Union with a bit of cricket.
Now am I generalising, profiling, and boxing in a group of people? Yep – but I’m more likely to be on the money than some of the usual fairytales that come from this website.
Oh and before Fussball replys with his usual “Do you have any proof of this?, where is your evidence?, are there any statistics or reports to support this?,” I spent 5 years in the defence force and 5 years worth of ANZAC days at RSL’s and believe you me, these types would more likely laugh at a soccer player rolling on the ground, cluching his ankle, screaming ‘ref, ref’”, than saying ‘geez, that player has guts and courage.’
This article sounds like the usual dribble to come from one Craig Foster, wheryby he writes these pieces to give soccer some form of historical legitimacy in the Australian psyche.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:13pm
Fake ex-AFL fan said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:13pm | Report comment
+1000. As a former serviceman myself you are absolutely 100% spot on. The idea of a significant cultural link between the ADF (past & present) and the sport of soccer is a fanciful and bizarre one and simply another exercise in wish fulfillment from fans of this sport.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:02pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
Fake ex afl fan.
Funny how that name appeared just when that bloke koops stopped blogging.
You allege you’ve represented your nation in the theatre of war though you’ve found a tiny little website and a small article that you don’t like and have taken offence BRAVE.
Fake ex afl fan i think the closet you’ve come to military action is eating SAO’S.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:56pm
Fake ex-AFL fan said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:56pm | Report comment
Good comeback Bondy, you and your soccer mates have been thoroughly smashed by a couple of people who actually KNOW what the Australian military is like and your response is not to defend your point of view (which is absurd) but to start demanding that I post my personal details to this site. Yeah, that’ll happen.
April 22nd 2011 @ 11:13pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 11:13pm | Report comment
Fake ex afl fan.
Again i will stipulate you’re a very brave man hiding behind a computer.
April 24th 2011 @ 12:30am
Ari Viderci said | April 24th 2011 @ 12:30am | Report comment
As opposed to Bondy, who is just hiding behind a computer.
April 24th 2011 @ 4:09am
Bondy said | April 24th 2011 @ 4:09am | Report comment
Fake exafl fan.
I’ve taken a swipe at you and you haven’t even had the courage to come back at me with your original username you used very brave.
You’ve come back with the alias of Ari Viderci.
April 24th 2011 @ 5:07am
Ari Viderci said | April 24th 2011 @ 5:07am | Report comment
It’s like Spartacus in reverse isn’t it Bondy — you think there’s heaps of them and then find out at the end there’s only one of them. I think that’s how it went anyway.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:14pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
@John
Wow … in my opinion, it takes a pretty disgusting character to use ANZAC day to try make points about “ARF is better than soccer”!
Just when I think some Aussies cannot stoop any lower, comments like John’s make me realise there are some pretty nasty, irreverent and petty people out there.
EDIT: Looks like John is not the only disgusting comment. Fake ex-AFL fan is drawn to him like a fly to s***! Let’s see how many other flies decide to devour this type of garbage.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:22pm
Bend it like Barassi said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
“ARF is better than soccer”
Only sensible thing you have ever posted. Proud of you Fuss.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:27pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
“Proud of you Fuss” … only sensible thing you’ve ever posted.
PS: I notice you’ve gone with a descriptor in your “username” that was made famous by a film dedicated to Football superstar, David Beckham.
I would have thought something like: “Up yours Barassi” would be culturally appealing to the ARF demographic?!
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:55pm
Peter Wilson said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
Fussball, have a look at all the AFL fans ganging up on you on a football topic – as if AFL actually means anything to the majority of Australians.
The most popular game amongst diggers and their allies during the wars was football not AFL.
The history of football and the fighting men of this country goes back a long long way. ANZAC day and any other rememberance day will be discussed at many football clubs around Australia on Monday. Many like these:
http://www.tilligerrysoccerclub.com.au/fc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=115:anzac-day-marches&catid=1:news&Itemid=2
And how many RSL clubs field football teams whose members will fill their RSL clubs on Monday to celebrate ANZAC Day as Australians.
You AFL people are so full of yourselves and your trumped up hype that you can’t think for yourselves any more.
To slander football and the ANZACS like that and then try and drag Craig Foster into the argument shows just how gutless you AFL followers really are.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:58pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:58pm | Report comment
It’s a brave man who gives his unqualified support to a poster of such renown as Fussball.
Congratulations.
By the way, the author of this article makes three direct references to the AFL, so how do you rationalise AFL supporters being barred from making comment?
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:02pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
Thanks for the support, Peter Wilson.
I found the majority of ARFers on this Forum to be a pretty vacuous group – which is not surprising when you consider the things that excite them in a sporting contest! – and you won’t get much sensible comment or analysis from ARFers on any issue.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:05pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:05pm | Report comment
There you go Peter, well done, we look forward to you giving fussball more of your unqualified support, well done mate, you must be so proud.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:15pm
Fake ex-AFL fan said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:15pm | Report comment
“The most popular game amongst diggers…was football (sic)” Where on earth did you come up with this extraordinary lie? How can soccer fans possibly delude themselves so profoundly? Seriously Pete, take it from someone who has served in this country’s military and has studied Australian military history at post-graduate level, you are absolutely kidding yourself about this. That’s not a criticism of soccer, simply a statement of historical fact.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:31pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
Fake ex afl fan .
Prove it , prove you’ve served my nation you run under an alias of FAKE here, how and why should i believe you , how do you know if im not a 9 yr old who’s up late on the computer or 90 with no teeth.
Prove it most military servicemen i’ve met keep it very quiet though you bravely jump on a website to tout you’ve been to war Put you’re name and service number up.
B.S.
April 22nd 2011 @ 11:04pm
Fake ex-AFL fan said | April 22nd 2011 @ 11:04pm | Report comment
Ah Bondy, can’t address the issue at hand or defend Peter Wilson’s absurd, ridiculous claims so you ignore them and start questioning my military service. Gutsy. I could post any name and service number here I like, claim I’ve won a VC & bar and list all of my postings but that wouldn’t ‘prove’ anything. The fact is (and I’ll keep saying this until it sticks in the somewhat limited intellects of soccer fans) there is no significant link between the Australian Military, past or present, and soccer. For soccer fans to claim otherwise is either a) a lie; or b) evidence of profound ignorance. I’ll be charitable and go with option b) in your case.
April 22nd 2011 @ 11:26pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 11:26pm | Report comment
Fake ex afl fan .
You’ve missed the point that i made , how do you know that im not a 9 yr old who’s up late on the computer or a 90 yr old with no teeth. It can’t be proven.
Neither of us can prove anything whether im 9 yrs of age or if you believe you fought in the first and second world wars and Vietnam.
Going by what you’ve posted id suggest the closet thing to military engagement you’ve contested is tackling the mowing in the backyard.
April 23rd 2011 @ 11:09am
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner said | April 23rd 2011 @ 11:09am | Report comment
The only real meaningful link between this country/military service and soccer is from the aptly named British football association (soccer) that operated in this country before WW1 (as per the article).
And in the British Football association (known as soccer), most of the players were British, and not Australian born.
Rugby Union and Australian football, and to a lesser extent RL although by WW2, it was possibly on equal footing , are imbedded in the Australian Military history as far as football codes go.
Rugby Union is considered the main football code in the military, although depending on who the commander at the time was, Australian football was given top dog, but usually RU.
Soccer has a tiny almost neglible part of, as far as football codes go, in Australian military history.
As a ex-serviceman myself, these are my observations.
April 23rd 2011 @ 10:51pm
Ian Syson said | April 23rd 2011 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner. British Association football not British football association.
I’m a bit unclear as to why you make a distinction between Australian and non-Australian born. As this site makes clear, those from the 11th Battallion killed on April 25 were in about equal measure Australian and non-Australian born http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/1landing/first-to-fall/11battalion/index.html
Historians have suggested that between 20 and 25 per cent of Australian troops in the very first troop ships were British born.
I accept the possibility that soccer has a smaller role in the armed forces today but I would suggest that it had a much greater role in the past, as the photo of the soccer match at Gallipoli suggests.
April 23rd 2011 @ 10:39am
Aussie Rules said | April 23rd 2011 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Instead of the AFL playing with itself and can’t play NZ in a International ANZAC Day friendly, may be the AFL should play Ireland instead, at their International football game yearly and call it The IAAC Day match.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:35pm
Fake ex-AFL fan said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
Grow a pair Fuss, you insult, sledge and demean other sports whenever you have a chance, including when issues such as mental health, war, international politics and trade are being discussed, and yet throw your hands in the air in mock outrage when you are firmly put back in your box. In this case several contributors including yourself have made critical reference to sports already played on ANZAC day rather than referencing the article at hand – are they ‘disgusting’ too.
Just listen to those who actually know about such matters, put your brain in neutral for five seconds and accept you have no idea about this issue. And let me repeat it for you so you get it this time: There is no meaningful link between soccer and current or former members of the Australian Defence Forces. Diggers young and old love League and Australian Football. Officers are partial to Union. That’s why there is no soccer game commemorating ANZAC day.
Now off you go and do some cut and pasting from your favourite ‘business 101′ website.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:58pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:58pm | Report comment
I’ve simply said, in my opinion, playing sport on ANZAC day is a money-making exercise and has nothing to do with honouring the departed.
Even the RSL must have held the same view, since they were historically totally opposed to sport being played on, and distracting attention from, this day of reflection.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:03pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:03pm | Report comment
You might be right on the last point, and that’s why the AFL talked it over with the RSL, who set down some very strict ground rules before they proceeded with the very first ANZAC Day game. It only went ahead because the AFL had the RSL’s imprimatur.
As to the commercialisation of the day, it’s a furphy.
If this game had been played tomorrow arvo instead, they would have got 80k+ anyway, maybe even have nudged 90k.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:43pm
John said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
Fussball, for you to write that I have a “disgusting character” is quite frankly disresepectful and a smear on my character, sir.
Secondly, I never once wrote that ARF is better than soccer. For you to use quotes to state this, is decietful and a plain out lie.
Thirdly, I played junior soccer for 5 years and enjoyed it. I also played 10 years of Baseball, and 4 years of Basketball. I never played Aussie rules, unfortunately. I guess you can say I love all of gods creatures (and sports). I’m hardly a soccer hater.
Finally, what I wrote was not a disgusting comment. Its FACT. It might be hard to swallow and comprehend, but the reality is that most (not all) of those in the services(past and present) have little connection with soccer.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:19pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
Now that John mentions it, when Fos isn’t drooling over Barca, he does try very hard to create some sort of significant history for soccer in this country.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:36pm
Fake ex-AFL fan said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
I think the word you’re looking for is ‘fabricate’.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:46pm
Marcel said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
Fabricate?…a bit like a sixteen year old “tradition”….mate The Simpsons has more tradition than any of these Anzac day games
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:51pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
“The Simpsons has more tradition than any of these Anzac day games”.
That’s got to be “THE comment for the day” …. Pure G-O-L-D and highlights the flaws in any grandiose claims used to market these games as having some long-standing tradition.
April 22nd 2011 @ 10:59pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 10:59pm | Report comment
He was using the word “fabricate” in the context of Foz making up history about soccer in Australia, making out it has a long standing history in this country, etc.
It’s hard for anyone to argue that the Australian game isn’t a good fit for commemorating a significant Australian day, especially when the link between Australian football and our diggers is so strong, going all the way back to the Boer War.
April 23rd 2011 @ 10:30am
Jason said | April 23rd 2011 @ 10:30am | Report comment
I’d argue Rugby would be a better fit seeing as both Australia and New Zealand play the sport.
April 22nd 2011 @ 11:09pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 11:09pm | Report comment
Marcel
if you’re interested, this gives you a brief history on the ANZAC Day Match:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzac_Day_match
“During many wars, Australian rules football matches have been played overseas in places like northern Africa and Vietnam as a celebration of Australian culture and as a bonding exercise between soldiers. Despite this, professional football was not played on Anzac Day for many years;…The first VFL matches played on Anzac Day occurred in 1960 following an Act of Parliament which lifted the previous restriction on this activity…”
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:49pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
The Cattery.
You’re not that clown running around this website suggesting there playing aussie rules in Norway in their droves are you.
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:51pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:51pm | Report comment
Bondy
I can’t recall ever mentioning Norway here on this site.
I have lived in Norway, and was once quasi-fluent in the language, but am a bit rusty these days.
Let me see: hvordan stor de til?
April 22nd 2011 @ 9:46pm
Bondy said | April 22nd 2011 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
I think your starting to go down the track of ethnic typecasting a sport again, this isn’t the John i had blew with a couple of weeks ago is it.
Most of my ancestry fought in the Great Wars Infantry and Signals and love Football John but you’ve narrowed it down to wogs loving the sport that came here in 1952.
You’ve got a patent on the ANZAC john have you
Another outstanding commitment from JOHN.
See you next week JOHN.
Let’s hear it for John, lets give him a big clap
April 22nd 2011 @ 11:02pm
Ian Syson said | April 22nd 2011 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
John, I am not Craig Foster. And nowhere in the article do I try to reduce the role of players from the other football codes. The first war for example basically killed RU in Brisbane until the late 20s because so many of its players enlisted and were killed. But you are wrong if you think soccer players have not been a significant part of our armed forces.
You’re right about the imprint though. There is very little sense of a connection between soccer and service — though when I drove past Duntroon last time I was up there I had to wonder what function the soccer goalposts had.
April 22nd 2011 @ 11:24pm
Ian Syson said | April 22nd 2011 @ 11:24pm | Report comment
John, how do you explain this article from the Argus in 1941 detailling the supplies sent to the Middle East by the ACF (Australian Comforts Fund)?
“ACF DISTRIBUTIONS
Mothers and wives who have menfolk in the Middle East will be interested to read extracts from a list of articles distributed there by the ACF in one month. Among them are 58,045 packets of cigarettes, 7600 tinned delicacies 7024 tins of vegetables, among many other foods. Much sporting material was issued, including 22 soccer balls, 8 Australian rules footballs, 14 cricket bats, 42 cricket balls, batting pads, wicket-keeping pads, table tennis sets, boxing gloves, and punching gloves.”
You might also want to explain to me the photo I have of an officer distributing medallions in France to the Australian team that won a soccer tournament there. You might also try to explain the hundreds of soccer players killed in the first war, including the Irymple five and the 11 from the Caledonians club in Perth (one of whom was killed at Gallipoli).
April 22nd 2011 @ 11:48pm
The Cattery said | April 22nd 2011 @ 11:48pm | Report comment
Ian
perhaps it’s a story waiting to be told.
I have this reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFL/AFL_players_who_died_in_active_service
but I can’t find a similar list for Victorian soccer, although I do note this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Premier_League
“The league commenced in 1909 with Carlton United being the first champions, and has run continuously except for a three season postponement from 1916-1918 owing to World War 1. ”
So perhaps there is a story waiting to be told – one I have never read.
April 23rd 2011 @ 10:03am
Ian Syson said | April 23rd 2011 @ 10:03am | Report comment
TC, yes it is a story waiting to be told. As part of my research I’m compiling a list of soccer players killed in action and it’s already a substantial one.
Here’s some work-in-progress (not mine) on the ozfootball site http://www.ozfootball.net/museum/index.php/en/footballing-anzacs
April 23rd 2011 @ 11:11am
The Cattery said | April 23rd 2011 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Good luck with that, but an element of all of this sits uncomfortably with me.
There’s an underlying theme present that also existed throughout the WC bid debates.
It can be summarised as the theme of appropriation, of one sport craving that which another sport has: mainstream appeal, cultural and historical significance, controlling magnificent stadiums and resources, etc.
Just as the WC bid was essentially about appropriating stadiums that belonged to another sport, just as Fos has tried to create a soccer history that gives it a greater cultural significance in this country than would otherwise be warranted, this whole ANZAC thing is another step towards cultural appropriation, raising the cultural significance of soccer way above where it stands in reality.
By all means, collect information on the fallen, and what they may have done in their private lives, but I wonder what your intentions and motivations are?
April 23rd 2011 @ 11:41am
punter said | April 23rd 2011 @ 11:41am | Report comment
I think you would find this is exactly what most Sydney sports fans are thinking of AFL as well.
Sydney already have our cultural & historical background already, Swans have been here 30 years & have a small niche following, but it’s not mainstream. We all have our RL team, we follow the Australian cricket team & the Wallabies & the Socceroos, but I hear very little of Aussie Rules.
Of course this is ‘hatred for Melbourne’, ‘blinded by the pro RL media’ or is it that we just don’t think your game is that good. I know where I stand.
April 23rd 2011 @ 12:56pm
Bondy said | April 23rd 2011 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
The Cattery.
Why does it make sense when you see posts of the Anzac diggers who have fallen in the line of duty that have been associated with aussie rules, but on the other hand it cant possibly be true that an Australian died for his nation who was associated with playing football.
Why does it sit uncomfortably with you ?.
I’ve learnt something out of this story that surely would have not be addressed in papers such as The Herald Sun or The Daily Telegraph and websites like these give me a freedom of view not to tout or feel good but for it’s independance i choose what i read here not whats forced upon me frommedia with hidden agendas.
Is it that you believe that football came here on a boat in the 50′s and most who associate with the sport were your enemy ?.
I think over this weekend we should reflect more on what so many have given for our nation and possibly too also reflect on the obscene salaries and lifestyles of our sportsman in today’s society and really reflect on both.
April 23rd 2011 @ 1:04pm
The Cattery said | April 23rd 2011 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Bondy
I’m all in favour of historical research.
I simply make the point that much of this discussion is veering towards a form of appropriation, and that I’ve seen that same attitude throughout the WC bid discussions.
It’s an approach that demands things overnight without having to earn it over 153 years of blood, sweat and tears.
It’s a preference to taking short cuts rather than earning something through your own efforts.
April 23rd 2011 @ 1:12pm
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner said | April 23rd 2011 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
As i pointed out, in the main, most diggers who were involved in soccer, played for the British Association football leagues, and were actually British, not Australian born.
If we are talking about Australian born diggers, then essentially they had very little to do with soccer, and played Australian football, Rugby union and to a lesser extent RL.
Essentially the lines have not changed to this day, where in the main, English immigrants and their kids play soccer, whilst most Australian born kids prefer the indigenous code or the rugby’s.
April 23rd 2011 @ 9:21am
djfrobinson said | April 23rd 2011 @ 9:21am | Report comment
John
- I will refer you to segment 5:48 to 5:51 – Sport at Gallipoli.
April 23rd 2011 @ 10:31am
pike64 said | April 23rd 2011 @ 10:31am | Report comment
good post djfrobinson. i can just see the ARF brigade thinking that it must be a fabricated doco made by fossie.
April 23rd 2011 @ 1:16pm
AL said | April 23rd 2011 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Well said Bondy, you would be someone I could stand side by side in a trench.
April 24th 2011 @ 5:36pm
Aussie Rules said | April 24th 2011 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
djfrobinson Good I have pass your link to Australian Football museum and othe link I came across this debute regarding Australian Football http://www.ozfootball.net/
April 24th 2011 @ 6:30am
Outback Jack said | April 24th 2011 @ 6:30am | Report comment
Great post John. Why does soccer always try and jump on the bandwagon of everything. The old diggers would know nothing of soccer and imagine how uncomfortable someone like Les Murray would be talking to them. These guys know what its like to stand and fight for your country, something that Murray (or is it Urge) could not comprehend.