Waratahs trying to bore their way into finals
Columnist By Spiro Zavos, 9 May 2011 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- John Ulugia, Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Waratahs, Western Force
Around the 60th minute of their home match against the Western Force, the Waratahs ground-out 30 phases of one-up drives. In the end, thank goodness, the Waratahs’ hooker John Ulugia plunged across the line for a try.
Admittedly, this match, and all the others for the rest of the Super Rugby tournament, are must-win contests for the Waratahs. The Waratahs have adopted the tactics to bore their oppositions into defeat. It is also boring their supporters with 17,532 only turning up for the match at the SFS.
The rugby league equivalent of this system was the WazzaBall tactics created by Warren Ryan to take the Canterbury Bulldogs to a premiership victory.
The joke in rugby league circles at the time is that the Bulldogs’ favoured scoreline was a 1 – 0 win. The Waratahs did at least score two tries. One of them came after the eternity of phase play drives, and the second was a well-played fluke try by Ryan Cross who caught a rebound from a posted penalty attempt.
The Waratahs had a backline with five Wallabies in it. Yet they refused to allow the backs the chance to make attacks.
Almost invariably, even when they got turnovers, the backs kicked away the ball. In all, the Waratahs kicked 44 times. This amounted to virtually all the possession the Western Force were able to get. The result was that the Waratahs only had to make 56 tackles in the whole match.
Despite these statistics, the Waratahs were only able to win by 5 points against a side that did not try very hard to make much attack.
At half-time with the Western Force leading 9-6 the Waratahs coach, Chris Hickey, told the television commentators that he wanted his side to play ‘field position.’
What was really needed was for the backs and the forwards to actually take their attack to the Western Force. Some set moves and ploys by the backs, aside from the plodding inside cut by Tom Carter, would help the Waratahs’ cause as well.
As the tournament table stands now, the Reds (45) are almost certain to win the Australian conference. I say ‘almost’ because they have a huge match next weekend against the Blues, and then the following week, also at home, against the Crusaders.
A win in either of these matches would ensure a conference top place and possibly a first or second position on the table which will give them a bye in the first week of the finals.
They can still win the Australian conference even if they lose these two matches. Their final three matches are about as easy as it gets in this tough Super Rugby tournament: the Brumbies at home and the Western Force away.
The Waratahs are currently in 6th place on the table, one point ahead of the Highlanders. They have a bye next week, which under the points allocation system gives them 4 points. They then play two matches in South Africa against the Sharks and the Bulls. If they win both or one of these matches, they should make the finals.
The match against the Sharks is the crucial one. The South African side is currently 3 points in front of the Waratahs and a victory to one of them entrenches their specific position on the ladder.
The final two matches for the Waratahs are at home against the Highlanders and the Brumbies. With the Highlanders the main opposition (along with the Sharks) to their top six finals placing, this is a match the Waratahs will need to win.
It seems to me that the Highlanders have run out of gas. They played poorly against the Chiefs. After winning great victories against the Bulls and other strong sides like the Crusaders by maintaining a vigorous, up-tempo ball-in-hand game they became infected with the Waratahs’ virus and kicked the ball away to the Chiefs at every opportunity. The Chiefs were able to score two tries and this was enough to sink the Highlanders.
The game of the round, and almost the game of the tournament, was the epic clash between the Stormers and the Crusaders. This was rugby at its best with two well-coached and well-disciplined sides going at each other hammer and tongs from the opening whistle. In the end the self-belief and willpower of the Crusaders prevailed.
But it was also interesting to me that the Crusaders had anticipated the Stormers’ up-and-in defence by getting Sonny Bill Williams to run hard at the line the first four times he got the ball. When the defensive line held back a bit and braced itself for his charges Sonny Bill then slipped away several magic passes, one of which led to the Crusaders’ first try.
This was superb play by a player who is making a brilliant transition to rugby union. If he stays in the game (a big if, admittedly) he could become one of the greats.
The way he is playing he should have a big impact on the rest of the tournament, and later in the year in the Rugby World Cup. The Crusaders are shaping up to be either the top New Zealand side or, if this doesn’t happen, the highest ranked non-conference winner.
This brings us back to the Waratahs. The Reds and the Crusaders are trying to win the tournament with exciting, hard-shouldered play. The Waratahs are trying to bore us all in their attempt to win the tournament. It’s a pity for them the tournament is not a tunnel but a journey …
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- Explore:
- John Ulugia, Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Waratahs, Western Force
May 9th 2011 @ 7:35am
ohtani's jacket said | May 9th 2011 @ 7:35am | Report comment
The Highlanders hadn’t won in Hamilton since 2003, so Saturday night’s game was always going to be tough for them. Weather conditions haven’t been that great in New Zealand over the past few weeks, but the real problem for the Highlanders is injuries. For some reason, the New Zealand conference is suffering from an unbelievable amount of injuries. The Chiefs and Hurricanes have already been through this, lost matches and gone through difficult road trips. Now that they’re back in New Zealand, they’re focused on salvaging as much as they can from the latter part of the season. This makes the Hurricanes a difficult opponent for the Highlanders this week, especially since Joseph is struggling to field a backline.
I’d love to see the Highlanders make the finals, but it seems as though they’ve been figured out at the breakdown and in set piece. These are not strengths of the Chiefs, but much like the Blues the week before they bettered the Highlanders in these areas.
May 9th 2011 @ 1:05pm
zhenry said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
Highlanders didn’t win breakdown because of the injuries; Thompson off. And yes dumb kicking. The number of NZ side injuries is becoming alarming, if it continues very serious. Only option will be to forfeit the Super games and even 3 nations for a reasonably fit AB side for WC. And yes they should be prepared to do that. Not sure of overall Super injury position but some SA sides seem to have fewer injuries.
So much for the gym and bowing to AU pressure for a Super 15.
May 9th 2011 @ 2:18pm
Bayboy said | May 9th 2011 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Obviously you lads having been keeping up to date with the conspiracy theorists.
Supposedly rumor has it well Mark Richardson (Crowd goes Wild) believes and he’s only taking the mickey in reality.
Isn’t it funny how so many of the AB squad of last year have gone down with seemingly minor injuries over the past few months that normally would not keep them out of matches yet this year they are?
Isn’t it ironic as Henry originally wanted his players to have longer rests however had to settle with two weeks through the season.
As Mark sarcastically questioned and in jest is this the undercover rotation policy ala 2007?
His comments were all said in humor but it seems however that the NZRU has felt the need to today on radiolive stress that the injuries are real and they can not work out why there are so many more this year and why 21 of last years quad have succumbed to injury albeit many very minor……….
May 9th 2011 @ 2:38pm
zhenry said | May 9th 2011 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Don’t know about MR but in WC year of course players need to be rested. Don’t know the overall stats here but from my reading the injuries are serious enough. Thompson broken rib. Paterson operation and its happening every week. If it continues then drastic measures will have to be taken.
I hope you are right that Henry is using the injuries to rest, but I think not to any great extent.
Jake White put out stand-ins for the Boks in the 2007 tri-nations and the result worked.
At this rate it will happen to Super as well, and considering my opinions around what is happening via O’Neill that is fine with me.
May 9th 2011 @ 6:53pm
ohtani's jacket said | May 9th 2011 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
The way things are going most of the All Blacks need their remaining Super rugby games and the test matches to get some rugby under their belts.
May 9th 2011 @ 7:37am
kingplaymaker said | May 9th 2011 @ 7:37am | Report comment
It’s a shame that Hickey who seems to be a nice chap is so unsuccessful. It’s also heart-warming in its way when the coach of a local club team makes his way into a position at the head of the Waratahs. However, his reign is a disaster and must surely end, before support for Super rugby in Sydney is killed off forever.
SBW’s success makes you think that New Zealand should target other standout league players in the same way. Unlike Australia, there are fewer: I would say three at a time, at the moment SBW, Benji Marshall and Karmichael Hunt, and offer them the same terms as SBW which were very clever. Graham Henry only said he would pay as much as other top All Blacks, knowing that the NZRU has little to give and more would make senior All Blacks unhappy, but instead he pointed out how third-party deals could significantly increase the total until the final amount was very competitive. This strategy should be applied to whoever the top three Kiwi league players are at any time, while the two or three at the level below should be lured (i.e. Frank Pritchard), in case they are good enough for the All Blacks which at this lower level is very much less certain. In this way the possible strength of the All Blacks would be maximised.
May 9th 2011 @ 8:36am
Brett McKay said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:36am | Report comment
KPM, I have to ask – what’s with this fascination of yours in always wanting to convert rugby league players?? And in New Zealand, of all places?!? Decent quality Kiwis are discovering their Australian roots so that they can get a SR and International run, such is the depth of rugby talent over the ditch. Why ever would the NZRU need to poach league players?!?
May 9th 2011 @ 9:00am
kingplaymaker said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Brett, I think the health of the game as a whole relies on the All Blacks being at their very best, and I think there are roughly three standout players at a time who could make the ABs and hence strengthen them. I worry slightly at the threat that soccer and wealthy Australian league scouts may one day pose to rugby in New Zealand and think it best to head this danger off at the pass. Lastly, in 2001 Lomu, Cullen and Umaga were all on the scene. Now there is no one of quite that stature. Where are they going? Perhaps those rich NRL scouts have been doing their work well
May 9th 2011 @ 9:31am
EP - Rugbywits said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:31am | Report comment
If we are talking rugby league converts – which we are most certainly not in Australia I think – I’d say Cooper Cronk would be a great addition to the NSW Waratahs for when Berrick Barnes takes that final head knock.
If you watch him he is one of the most underrated league players out there. Kicks well, organises well, defends stoutly and makes the players around him look and play better. He could be a great number 10. A more game managing one, but a good one none the less.
If we were to get serious about converting players to rugby in Australia, AFL is the answer. I am more and more convinced every day that the AFL has the best athletic talent in our country. I always thought so watching on TV, but I saw my first game live a couple of weeks ago and was convinced. Superior athletes. There would be some brilliant wing/centre/fullbacks laying around in AFL rosters.
May 9th 2011 @ 9:37am
saliosi said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:37am | Report comment
You wouldn’t have to convert Cooper Cronk he was an Australian schoolboy rugby union representative
May 9th 2011 @ 10:04am
Harry said | May 9th 2011 @ 10:04am | Report comment
Yep Cronk would be my pick of all current NRL players to convert to Union, and he played ita as a schoolboy. Unlikely to happen though.
May 9th 2011 @ 11:53am
cm said | May 9th 2011 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Absolutely! And we could do with some AFL tall timber in the pack as well. The very existence of AFL is stripping rugby of a great deal of potential talent.
Alternatively, if we can’t get rid of AFL altogether or at least get key players to defect, maybe we can export AFL to NZ?
May 9th 2011 @ 4:55pm
Moaman said | May 9th 2011 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
afl already well-entrenched here
May 9th 2011 @ 4:49pm
taylorbridge said | May 9th 2011 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Cooper Cronk played Union for St Laurences Christian Brothers in Brissie, the same Rugby nursery as developed Peter Hynes, Dan Crawley, Mark Connors etc
May 9th 2011 @ 7:34pm
densamer said | May 9th 2011 @ 7:34pm | Report comment
Hynesy was a State High lad
May 9th 2011 @ 9:37am
Brett McKay said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:37am | Report comment
KPM, I think the numbers over there are still pretty strong though. Yes, NRL scouts might pinch a few here and there, but the pull of the All Blacks jersey is still pretty strong. I don’t think we need to fear a weak ABs any time soon, not with the NZ conference as tight as it is, and the ITM Cup reviving the love of provincial rugby again..
May 9th 2011 @ 9:43am
kingplaymaker said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Brett there’s no fear right now, but I worry in a theoretical way for rugby in New Zealand as it has such a small population. Should soccer mania ever hit rugby might be swept away, whereas it would survive in another country. I think all measures should be taken now to combat future danger.
Briefly regarding our earlier discussion of Western Sydney or Adelaide for the next Super team, look what happens when the Waratahs start losing, the crowd for the whole of Sydney, this massive market and heartland producing 70% of the Wallabies, falls to a 17,000. With two teams, at least one would be doing well or playing entertainingly at one time. I think it is too much of a risk to have just one team in Sydney-imagine if you only had the Waratahs to watch all season!
May 9th 2011 @ 9:52am
Brett McKay said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:52am | Report comment
but really, if rugby’s in danger of being swept away by other sports, it’s in Australia, not in New Zealand. I know what you’re saying, but I’m not sure I share your concern.
Re the second Sydney team, I think it’s a big assumption to say that there would always be one team doing well. If you look at the Force side currently, it’s essentially made up of a few Qlders and the a large chunk of Sydney clup players – exactly the sort of player a second Sydney team would attract. And the Force aren’t the antithesis of the ‘Tahs, are they? And what playes would want to go to Perth if they could just go to Parramatta??
This is why I don’t think it’s as simple as “just creating another team”. Nowhere is crying out for a team to support currently, and I don’t know there’s the numbers to support it. Hence why I suggested that “nowhere” is the best option at the moment. When Austrlia has five teams inside the top half of the SR table, and the Aust conference is the strongest of the three, then sure, let’s look at it then…
May 9th 2011 @ 9:55am
M.O.C. said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:55am | Report comment
KPM, I can only guess that you have never lived in NZ. Don’t worry about the ABs, there are plenty of players ready to go without having to try to lure in ex-league players and that will not change in the future. I am a bit amazed that you don’t think there are players of 2001 stature in their current team!
May 9th 2011 @ 1:30pm
zhenry said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
It was the 14 side ITM cup that revved the NZ public. Despite that, cool AU owned NZ media articles about the NZ NPC continue: Doesn’t help crowd attendance and by that time the public are running short of money. That 14 side NPC has now been murdered (I write that advisedly) by splitting it to accommodate O’Neill’s push for AU Super 15 RU wallpaper.
The NZRU policy on Super, SANZA and international games needs a drastic overhaul to preserve the standard of RU now being played in NZ. Tew is going down the wrong path.
May 9th 2011 @ 1:14pm
zhenry said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Recruiting decent quality NZ league players with NZ roots is fair game, if they are exceptional players. SBW is proving the point, bring it on.
May 9th 2011 @ 7:45am
Bayboy said | May 9th 2011 @ 7:45am | Report comment
Does it really matter if they are playing boring rugby especially if they win.
I do recall the Reds barely scraping past the force in round 1 by one point.
May 9th 2011 @ 10:10am
kingplaymaker said | May 9th 2011 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Brett, of course whether there needs or should be another team depends on two things a) the market for it and b) the players to fill it. Obviously without imports, Australians now abroad or league converts there are not enough to fill another team, although one could say that players go to league in their teens because there aren’t enough union teams to offer them contracts (Jarrod Saffy for example, and apparently Cooper Cronk). The idea being that more teams provide more places to young players and also grow the game in a new area, hence creating more players who weren’t there before (e.g. in Adelaide, where new players would really come from nowhere). So it is on this basis that expansion occurs, not to spread the current players around more and dilute the qualities of all teams, but in the long term to invent new players. But do they exist now? No, of course you’re right.
Would another team win more? Who knows, but maybe it would have more chance of doing so.
M.O.C. I don’t think there is anyone of Lomu, Cullen or Umaga’s stature and certainly not in the backline. A mystery in the end. Maybe it was a freak chance that one let alone three turned up.
May 9th 2011 @ 10:31am
Darwin Stubbie said | May 9th 2011 @ 10:31am | Report comment
When you’re talking about different players of different eras then it’s always subjective but I don’t think it is in this context – is there anyone currently to match Lomu’s stature in the global game – no of course not, but really his hype and global presence far outweighed his actual talent (similar to Beckham in football) he sort of transcended the game … SBW has potential to fill the same roll as a global rugby figure – and this is what could see him staying in rugby in NZ for a bit longer – if he leaves and goes back to NH club rugby or league – then the opportunity will be lost …
but as for out and out players there’s no doubting all 3 you quoted would be considered AB greats for various reasons – but you have somehow missed out two current players that’ll go down as possibly the best ever AB’s in their respective positions – Carter and McCaw – their statue in the game is superior to Cullen and Umaga
May 9th 2011 @ 11:08am
Ryan said | May 9th 2011 @ 11:08am | Report comment
KPM,
Do you seriously reckon that Carter and McCaw are not up to Cullen and Umaga stature?? I would say they are above it.
Lomu is probably the most popular player to ever pull on the ABs jersey. If SBW was 5 years younger and didn’t carry the baggage of the NRL walkout maybe he could challenge Lomu.
May 9th 2011 @ 11:36am
kingplaymaker said | May 9th 2011 @ 11:36am | Report comment
Darwin and Ryan, I think Lomu is far beyond any player in history especially at the beginning of his career when health problems hadn’t weakened him. As for Cullen and Umaga in comparison to Carter, no I don’t think Carter is in their league.
Carter is a player of superb control and consistency and an excellent kicker, but he is not in Quade Cooper’s class as a visionary playmaker and distributor, and there have been fly-halves who are greater runners too.
A Carter with Cooper’s distribution and a far more damaging runner: that would be a player on the same level as Umaga or Cullen.
Mccaw is a forward and so difficult to compare, but I just said there are no players of comparable stature in the backs.
May 9th 2011 @ 1:32pm
Darwin Stubbie said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
KPM – as I said Lomu transcended the game – he became a global entity … but as a player he wasn’t even the best winger in those AB sides – Wilson was a far better all encompassing footballer
As for Carter – well you’re way off base again – the thing is he has a complete game and he’s not just average in some areas, good in others and poor in some – he’s well above average in everything he does – he’s the whole package … that’s why when he finaly hangs up his boots he’ll be considered as one of the very best AB’s ever produced as it is with McCaw ..
Umaga was a fantastic player and great captain .. but he’s in a long list of other great centres and captains to pull on the jersey … Cullen is in the same boat – fantastic player but also would be in a massive competition to labelled the very best AB fullback .. and that”s the critera they should be judged in – where they stand in the list of past players to play AB rugby
May 10th 2011 @ 5:28pm
Glenn Condell said | May 10th 2011 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
‘as a player he wasn’t even the best winger in those AB sides’
I don’t know about that. Put it this way, if you had to pick a team to play for your life and assume everyone is in top form, are you telling me you’d leave him out? He is the most damaging ball runner in the game’s history, and a good sport too.
He might not have always been the best on ground, but when he was, he was best on any ground you like.
May 9th 2011 @ 1:35pm
thurl said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
“but he is not in Quade Cooper’s class as a visionary playmaker and distributor”
You’re kidding!! Cooper’s mistakes far outweigh his visionary contribution to the Reds. he can do some spectacular things but his playmaking is still erratic and his tactical nous inconsistent
May 9th 2011 @ 2:23pm
Bayboy said | May 9th 2011 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
Carter and Quade Cooper shouldn’t be uttered in the same breath.
Cooper isn’t even close, Carter is arguably the best player in the World.
Cooper is struggling to be called the best player in Australia.
That honour is arguably between O’Conner and Pocock
May 9th 2011 @ 5:17pm
Wal The Hooker said | May 9th 2011 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
KPM its not often I weigh in with my opinions here and I enjoy reading you regulars. However in this instance I have to agree with DS, BB, Ryan and Thurl. Lomu may have been the most popular rugby player across the Globe but in another era Brian Williams 1970 – 78 could’ve reached those dizzy heights too. Lomu was a marketing dream and I’m in no way disrespecting him as a player he was devastating but so was Williams, Kirwan, Batty, Wilson et al. McCaw despite being a forward for mine is way up and over Umaga & Cullen his influence on the team is immense. You don’t win IRB player of the year 3 times for being just a Test player! The same goes for DC, Cooper isn’t in the same league, Carter is a complete player, and you’re probably forgetting his running ability. He can mix it. Rightly so McCaw & DC will go down as two of the greatest AB’s ever.
May 9th 2011 @ 5:07pm
Andre The Giant said | May 9th 2011 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
Cooper over Carter your taking the p!ss , surely
May 9th 2011 @ 8:37pm
M.O.C. said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:37pm | Report comment
KPM the crowd has spoken. Carter and McCaw will be remembered as some of the greatest ABs ever. Cullen was a freak but no more freakish than 10 others i could name and Lomu and Umaga were awesome but every player is better in hindsight than when they were playing. I personaly would rate Kirwan as a better winger than Lomu.
PS. I can’t for the life of me figure out how you can consider Cooper better than Carter. If you rate unpredictable creativity as the measure of a good 5/8th then Carlo Spencer had it over Cooper and in NZ I think you would find that Spencer would never be considered even close to Carter.
May 9th 2011 @ 9:02pm
Sammy22 said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
Andre I think the word is Puss!!!!!
May 9th 2011 @ 8:39pm
Sylvester Hyde said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
“but he is not in Quade Cooper’s class as a visionary playmaker and distributor”.
You said Carter, but I’m sure you meant Simon Culhane.
May 9th 2011 @ 10:02pm
kingplaymaker said | May 9th 2011 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
Ok firstly I never said Carter was BETTER than Cooper, I just said Cooper was a better playmaker and distributor. Of course he has other flaws in his game and Carter excels him elsewhere. My point is that there are abilities Carter doesn’t have, which is why although an outstanding player he isn’t a legendary one. A legendary player would have far better distribution and running than Carter.
Lomu in his early days was the best player ever, later he was less good but that was due to severe health problems. No player has ever changed games the way he did.
May 9th 2011 @ 10:49pm
Sylvester Hyde said | May 9th 2011 @ 10:49pm | Report comment
So the only difference between Carter and Cooper is superior defence and kicking?
I’ll humour the assertion that this could be true, and ask whether you honestly believe Carter would be rated like he is if his playmaking and running weren’t the strengths of his game.
May 9th 2011 @ 11:57am
drop kick said | May 9th 2011 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Spiro ALWAYS exagerates his criticisms of the Tahs and he ALWAYS over-praises the Reds.
“In all, the Waratahs kicked 44 times” Not accurate Spiro, the force kicked 44 times the Tahs 32 (according to SMH stats).
When the Reds have played boring rugby (ie against the Brumbies, Tahs, Force, Stormers) they are credited with “maturity”, “finding a way to win” etc. Why no criticism of the Reds for kicking 33 times against the Stormers for example?
Get off your bandwagon Spiro.
May 9th 2011 @ 1:56pm
Twickenham said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Nice pick up drop kick. Spiro is so determined to rip into the Waratahs it seems he will take the numbers that suit his argument even if he takes the number fom the wrong column. The Force kicked the ball 44 times and the Waratahs only had to make 56 tackles. Do the maths on how much attacking the Force did. Spiro can’t write the truth about the week-ends game because he gave the Force such a big wrap last week. It shows how bored everyone is with his Waratah bashing that most of the discussion here doesn’t have anything to do with his article.
May 9th 2011 @ 5:16pm
taylorbridge said | May 9th 2011 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
The game was boring. Absolutely a dud. Burgess and his forward pack cant remotely achieve the urgency speed and intensity needed to give quick ball to the class group outside him. Nick Farr-Jones, Gregan, Hipwell, Genia were/are able to demand that lumbering and plodding are not attributes that are needed in a forward pack that has backs to burn. Lachlan Turner tried so hard to lead by example in initiating attack but he was a stranger to Beale.Great Wallaby backs of the past fed off each other , but sadly watch the woeful lack of cohesion in these Waratahs. You can only dream that an imaginative , inspiring communication plus captain / coach is somewhere to be found. Only Rocky Elsom could be more dour.
May 9th 2011 @ 8:50pm
chester said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:50pm | Report comment
Well said Twickers
Spiro you are so one eyed it is amazing. Your articles about the Tahs always contain massive inaccuracies. It was the Force who kicked in 44 times. I can’t believe you don’t even check your facts before mouthing off about the Tahs. Wake up to yourself.
May 10th 2011 @ 7:15am
kingplaymaker said | May 10th 2011 @ 7:15am | Report comment
Sylvester I didn’t say those were the only differences.
I didn’t say playmaking and running weren’t strengths of Carter’s game, but the first is not on the same level as Cooper. Where he excels Cooper is clear-headedness, calm, organisational intelligence, defence, kicking out of hand and goal-kicking.
May 10th 2011 @ 7:43am
Bayboy said | May 10th 2011 @ 7:43am | Report comment
KPM unfortunately your pushing poop uphill here.
No one except yourself things Cooper is a better play-maker your really grasping at straws.
Carter is leaps and bounds ahead of Cooper and you are letting yourself down by proclaiming Cooper to having clear headiness above that of Carter and organizational intelligence etc.
I could just about guarantee you 99.9% of teams globally would take Carter long before they took Cooper Wallabies included
May 9th 2011 @ 4:50pm
Bear said | May 9th 2011 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
Badboy, The reds have been playing different Rugby since those first two games. I would prefer to watch a team that is prepared to back themselves and play enjoyable, confidant attacking Rugby than the Tahs, who play the exact opposite, week in and week out. If they are not careful, they will have no one attending their games. Maybe if they did play Rugby with any level of excitement Kurtley Beale would have re-signed?
May 9th 2011 @ 7:36pm
Deez said | May 9th 2011 @ 7:36pm | Report comment
True, and they got criticised for doing so (especially after repeating it the next week and getting destroyed by the tahs – who for the record played some very expansive and entertaining rugby). Since then, the Reds have reverted to their expansive game while the tahs have changed to play some really boring rugby… and have been made to pay for it (sometimes on the scoreboard, more consistently with their crowd numbers).
You would have to think that the low crowd figures are hurting the P&L – would be interesting to see after the season if, should the tahs make and host a home quarter final, whether the extra gate takings from that game offset the reduced average crowds during the season.
Despite all this, I am an Aussie and would be really keen for an Aussie team to bring home the SupeRugby crown – and now it appears the only teams with a realistic chance of making the finals are the Reds and the Tahs. So keep on winning (provided you don’t knock out my beloved Reds)!
May 9th 2011 @ 8:06am
wal said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:06am | Report comment
your beginning bore us too!
May 9th 2011 @ 8:07am
Brendon said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:07am | Report comment
Highlanders, blues, hurricanes and waratahs are missing nearly half their respective run on sides. Cohesion to run the ball cannot be there!!! None of these teams can play the exciting rugby they played in the early rounds because of these injuries. Until last wk end, the reds and stormers had barely any key injuries and obviously they are going to play better. All u can say is that the tahs need to just win! The better rugby will come when either, they have most of there players back, or when these guys get players in the same position two weeks in a row. And get rid of Ryan cross!!!! How long till rob Horne is back??
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May 9th 2011 @ 8:48am
Willy said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Thank you Brendon for an intelligent comment! So rare!
The Tahs were missing two of their most dynamic ball running forwards in Palu and TPN, their captain and chief ball fetcher in Waugh, their most dynamic back in Drew Mitchell and a talented running outside back in Horne (among others).
In addition, they were playing a team with the best back row in Australia.
Is it really any wonder that they chose to play a tight game based around field position? Could they have won the game playing running rugby, or would the Force loosies have had a field day?
Honestly, I would absolutely love some good, intelligent, reasoned analysis of Super Rugby on these pages.
Instead we get whinges about how the Waratahs are not the Crusaders (who are just about the best rugby team on the planet – and I include international teams in that list).
May 9th 2011 @ 8:50am
Willy said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:50am | Report comment
And while we’re on it – why is there no comment, or analysis, or criticism of the Force and their game plan?
The Waratahs were there for the taking on Saturday night, and the Force basically bottled it completely.
Among other discussion points – Whoever is responsible for pushing O’Connor out of fly half to make room for Willie Ripia needs a bullet. The most talented young player in the country and he’s being wasted.
May 9th 2011 @ 9:07am
Mals said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Exactly Willy.
I am an admirer of Spiro’s writing but the constant negativity concerning the Waratahs is wearing me down. If you wanted boring you had to look no further than the Force & their tactics. Constant kicking & attacking the NSW lineout & ruck ball seemed to be their only strategy. O’Connor’s boot was the only thing that kept them in the match. Apart from one or two kick chases into the Waratah 22 the Force never threatened the Waratah try line yet all we hear is how boring an injury depleted Tahs outfit is???
Let’s get some balance!
May 9th 2011 @ 10:55am
Big Steve said | May 9th 2011 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Agreed Brendon, Willy Mals. I thought the force kicked alot in the first half and forced the game to go in that slow field position game it turned into. As willy mentioned they are nearly the 5 most important players for the tahs. They have to play a different game plan without those players.
May 9th 2011 @ 11:11am
EP - Rugbywits said | May 9th 2011 @ 11:11am | Report comment
You’re probably right about the balance. The Tahs AND the Force were to blame for the sort of play we saw on Sat night. I will be a bit critical of the Tahs by nature because I am a fan and have a vision of what I believe they could be. But on balance the blame is just about equal.
I thought the Force could have won the game on the night if they had have opened it up a little more at a few points. Really NSW were fragile and were there to be toppled. The Force probably NEEDED to play the shut down style of game for the most part to stay close. But there needed to be times where for 5 minutes they were determined to play attacking for a while and see if something happens. If they scored just 1 try they win…
And as for actual analysis of the Force…
It seems that the rotation of players into different positions DURING the match kills them off. They are actually doing something pretty similar to what the Brumbies tried with their playmakers, less media attention obviously.
O’Connor plays in attack at 12 and defends mostly at 15. Ripia attacks at 10 and then just floats through defence (not so unusual I suppose for a 10) and Patty Dellit defended somewhere in the centres and attacked through 15.
Now in club rugby this is probably a great idea – get all of your skill players into specific positions in different phases of the game. That works because the skill gaps are more pronounced at that level so you will see the great results of your best players touching the ball on the field – no matter where they are.
In Super rugby the skill gap is narrower some-what. The rotation thing actually isn’t a HUGE advantage no matter what player appears where, because even a great player is only a few percent better than a solid player at this level. And what really ends up happening is your transition from attack to defence or, even more crucially, defence to attack is slowed down. It hampers a team’s creativity and ability to take advantage of specific situations because the players need to keep rotating roles.
In summary, you need enough class players to be able to pick a side and let a player fully play the role their position demands in all phases of the game.
Ultimately this is the problem I have with sliding Cooper into 15 different positions on the field. He may be one of the very few you can get away with doing it for at super level – because at his high points he is FAR better than almost anyone he comes up against. But at test level that will come back to get us…
May 9th 2011 @ 1:09pm
Decs said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
Well said Willy. The continual bashing of the Tahs is astonishing. If the Force somehow won that game on Sat night, Spiro would have credited them with a ‘smart’ game plan.
May 9th 2011 @ 8:21am
sheek said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:21am | Report comment
Spiro,
Unfortunately too many rugby folk in decision making positions just don’t get it.
Rugby union now being a professional sport, is part of the entertainment industry.
A professional sport needs to be financially viable to be successful. To be financially viable, it must be entertaining. It’s not rocket science.
For rugby to grow, to attract grater player participants, to attract more fans, better TV deals, more sponsors, greater revenue, it must be entertaining. There is a small pool of coaches & players in this country, & they protect their position with great insecurity.
Yet it doesn’t seem to penetrate their minds that by playing a more adventurous style of rugby, they will achieve the long-term security they crave when more players, more teams, more fans, & more revenue flows through the game.
May 9th 2011 @ 9:02am
kingplaymaker said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Sheek, I quite agree and think it is a terrible risk having only one team in Sydney, as this massive market which provides 70% of Wallabies can sink toa 17,000 crowd otherwise. With two (or three), the area would be less at risk.
May 9th 2011 @ 12:02pm
EP - Rugbywits said | May 9th 2011 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Three points for rugby:
1. Mould the scrum and say “push”. (Until that change, DONT STAND UP THE SCRUM when they are at the ‘crouch part of their current progression.)
2. Stop the clock until; the ball is in the scrum, when a lineout can’t be a quick one any longer and for kick at goal.
3. Put a 30 second ‘shot clock’ on the parts of the game mentioned in point 2 while the clock is off. This ensure the game is continued at a good pace without the game clock on.
Those 3 minor points would help our game I believe. We have a great game and it doesnt have to be radically changed to be popular. Just small things to keep the excitement going and to make sure people who pay money to go or pay with their time to watch on TV get value.
May 9th 2011 @ 1:50pm
sheek said | May 9th 2011 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
EP,
Nor am I suggesting dramatic changes to the game. You can come up with all the laws you like to jazz up the game, but if the coaches & players don’t want to participate, it won’t happen.
I’m not suggesting razzle-dazzle rugby all the time. The recent match between the Reds & Waratahs was technically a flawed game, but it was great drama because both teams wanted to win so desperately. That’s what made it a great game in the wash-up.
What defines a great game is difficult to capture, but you want passion, the CARE factor. You also want teams willing to take risks. Often the most desired things in life require an element of risk, otherwise, they’re not worthwhile or appreciated.
As mentioned elsewhere, very few of the Aussie local derbies would have had the youth of Australia racing off to their nearest junior rugby club or district or suburban rugby club to sign up & play. That’s the shame of it…..
May 9th 2011 @ 8:22am
johnny-boy said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:22am | Report comment
It could be the kiwis are copping more injuries because the local competition is so intense in NZ compared to other countries, as it has always been. There may be some quirky advantage having a lower intensity local competition in the conference system. I say this with half my forked tongue in my cheek . It could also be that Henry has been hanging on to his yes men favorites for so long that their age is catching up with them as we all know the older you get, the longer it takes to heal. Given SBW’s previous injury run in league I wouldn’t be surprised to see him ‘stumble’ near the World Cup either. He gets excited and over extends his capabilties and at his size at 2nd five it would be an easy trap to fall in to.
The Highlander Chiefs game certainly was hilarious. The vibe I got from the Reds Rebels game was that the Reds are fatigued also. There appeared to be some arguing amongst the players on field which indicates they are tired and frustrated at the game plan not flowing as planned because they are too knackered to execute it at their previous fresher speed. McKenzie needs to rest them up completely this week then unleash them when they are itching to go. The Blues would have to be the luckiest team in the comp. At times they go OK but at others the are a complete shambles. Just to prove me wrong they will probably play a blinder this week. Nevertheless if the Reds can keep their heads, they can take the Blues triumphantly at Suncorp. Get in to them you good things as they are fragile, but play smart. And yes Spiro the Waratahs are a disgrace to Australian rugby, winning or not and Chris Hickey is a blight on our code. Perhaps he could take up coaching bowls where he would be right at home.
May 9th 2011 @ 8:27am
the other Steve said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Only 17,532 people attended the Warratah v Force match.
I was at the Reds v Rebels game and they had 16,500 – only 1,000 fewer people – in the stadium. And Melbourne is not a rugby city like Sydney is.
The Warratahs might be winning, but they will be losing long term if they keep driving their spectators and supporters away.
May 9th 2011 @ 8:42am
Davo said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:42am | Report comment
On Saturday in Sydney I saw a game of passion and excitement. Running rugby, brilliant tries, desperation in defense, few scrum resets and plenty of thrills and spills for a passionate ground of rugby fans.
That was the winless Penrith Emus defeating Randwick at Randwick’s homeground 28-27.
By comparison the Waratahs Force game was a souless, pendatically refereed yawnathon.
May 9th 2011 @ 9:51am
Danny said | May 9th 2011 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Very well said Davo.
I was at the Waratahs game only because I have a season ticket. After having a season ticket for the last 6 years, I certainly will not be making that mistake again.
The whole package the Waratahs offer is appalling, bad rugby, bad atmosphere, no entertainment on and off the pitch and far too expensive.
It seems the Waratahs brand is going form bad to worst.
May 9th 2011 @ 7:36pm
p.Tah said | May 9th 2011 @ 7:36pm | Report comment
Well the atmosphere isn’t up to the Waratahs it’s up to us…
We all whinge about it, but no one does anything about it…
Some may say we don’t create an atmosphere because there is nothing to cheer… but there have been plenty of good moments amongst the hell but the crowd barely makes a whisper.
May 9th 2011 @ 8:56am
Damo said | May 9th 2011 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Davo , there is a clue in your story for a name-
for a team and place for the team from NSW -
the New South Wales Emus – based on the western Plain and structurally and culturally different from the team from Moore Park.
Moore is less.
May 9th 2011 @ 12:04pm
EP - Rugbywits said | May 9th 2011 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Great idea.
Or, if you believe there aren’t enough players to supply another Australian team to the Super comp from Australia – read my blog – transplant is a solution. Western Plains/Sydney Brumbies.