Paying tribute to the great Graham Henry
Roar Guru By Frank O'Keeffe, 27 May 2011 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- 2011 Rugby World Cup, All Blacks, Carl Hayman, Dan Carter, Graham Henry, new zealand all blacks, New Zealand rugby, Richie McCaw, robbie deans, Rugby Union, Rugby World Cup
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Recent discussion here at The Roar has prompted me to write an article about the great All Blacks coach Graham Henry. After all, I once questioned how great a coach Henry really was.
That isn’t to say I ever thought he was a bad coach, but the All Blacks side circa 2005-2007 was a brilliant team, full of star players. Richie McCaw, Dan Carter and Carl Hayman were the three best rugby players in the world. But players like Jerry Collins, Mils Muliana, and Joe Rokocoko were also sensational.
There wasn’t much to criticise about that team. Their line-outs weren’t always great in those years, and they perhaps didn’t have a halfback of tremendous statute, but that was a great side that seldom lost a game.
However, things went pear-shaped at the 2007 World Cup when New Zealand was eliminated by France. Far too much has been written about Wayne Barnes’ refereeing performance in that game, and not enough about many All Blacks pulled-up with injuries after that game.
One New Zealander I know, who would today swear a blood oath that it was Barnes’ fault, admitted to me at the time that he didn’t think New Zealand would have won the World Cup if they progressed past that stage because of the injuries the squad sustained.
Graham Henry rightfully came under criticism for resting players during the Super 14 season that year. When many of them came back into the game, they were fit, but not match fit.
Henry also tinkered with the squad a great deal, and New Zealand perhaps weren’t secure with certain combinations. I felt New Zealand struggled with their 9-10-12 combination throughout the World Cup.
It was around this time that Graham Henry went from being perhaps New Zealand’s most beloved coach since Fred Allen, to being a man under a gigantic microscope.
On the flipside, Robbie Deans was regarded by many as the best coach in the world and the heir apparent to the throne.
Three years since taking over the Wallabies, Australia hasn’t won the Bledisloe Cup, the Tri Nations, the Grand Slam, etc. But back then, he was seen as the savior of Australian rugby.
Certain members of the New Zealand media heavily criticized the NZRU for allowing Deans to leave for Australia.
If Australia were to succeed in 2008, Henry would have been chewed-up and spit-out by the New Zealand media.
Things started off well for Henry. New Zealand opened their Tri Nations campaign with a win over the world champions South Africa. However, I was in awe of how many of the New Zealand public reacted when South Africa won their next game against New Zealand on New Zealand soil.
It was the first game New Zealand had lost on their soil since… I don’t recall. A long time!
It was a game won, I think, partly on spirit. South Africa had to prove they were worthy World Cup champions and that had New Zealand progressed to the semis and final that they would have beaten them. My lasting memory of that game was a terrific chip and re-gather from Ricky Januarie to seal the win.
Australia beat South Africa next. However, many were skeptical about how much people could take form that win. The general feeling was South Africa were pretty beat up after having to play New Zealand twice before Australia. The acid Test for Australia was to be the Sydney Test against New Zealand. It was Deans versus Henry.
Australia won with a terrific performance.
A real highlight of their play how the way they kept their kicks just landing outside New Zealand’s 22, preventing Carter from clearing the ball when the ball was passed back into the 22. George Smith, Rocky Elsom and, especially, Berrick Barnes played terrific games.
Henry was in trouble. He’d been criticized all summer for his World Cup preparation, and tinkering with the side, and for handing-out that rare and coveted All Blacks jersey to anybody he thought worthy to create “depth” for the World Cup.
New Zealand had lost in New Zealand, and now lost two games in a row. The first time since a long time that had happened.
Deans apparently had transformed the Wallabies in a short time, and they looked set to win the Tri Nations with two straight wins.
What happened next was the defining Graham Henry moment for me. Faced with tremendous pressure, he coached New Zealand to what was one of their three best performances of the ’00s. They decimated Australia.
What I remember most about the game were Henry’s reactions to everything. The man who seldom showed any emotion was celebrating everything his team did.
The post-match interview revealed a lot. Henry admitted the pressure he had been under, and how that was one of the most important games he’d ever been a part of.
After that game? New Zealand kept South Africa scoreless in South Africa. They won the Tri Nations. They won in Hong Kong. They won everything for the rest of the year.
I don’t think people remember or understand just what a tremendous response Graham Henry gave to the rugby world in 2008.
I was in a sports bookshop reading a book on Henry’s coaching reign and how awesome it has been. It came out just after the World Cup, and ended on a sour note when the author claimed New Zealand had choked.
I remember the media pressure, the poor performances… and the response! What a response that was!
It’s easy to say Henry’s coached a great side, but he’s got them through some tough times too.
By 2011, I would have to say he’s been one of the greatest rugby coaches there has ever been.
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May 27th 2011 @ 4:21am
MattyP said | May 27th 2011 @ 4:21am | Report comment
He’s the Alex Ferguson of rugby…
May 27th 2011 @ 5:54am
Pot Hale said | May 27th 2011 @ 5:54am | Report comment
You mean Henry’s team has won the equivalent of 19 league titles, many FA Cups, League Cups, Super Cups, and two Champions League titles?
Ferguson is another level I think.
May 27th 2011 @ 8:02am
Winston said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:02am | Report comment
What about winning percentage?
May 27th 2011 @ 10:22am
Stalker said | May 27th 2011 @ 10:22am | Report comment
http://stats.allblacks.com/default.asp
http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html
Note, Ireland is ranked 4th in the world. Please also note, that they have never.. that is NEVER… beaten, the All Blacks.
I believe, Liverpool (5th) have beaten Man U many times.
May 27th 2011 @ 7:03pm
Ben S said | May 27th 2011 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
‘Note, Ireland is ranked 4th in the world. Please also note, that they have never.. that is NEVER… beaten, the All Blacks.
I believe, Liverpool (5th) have beaten Man U many times.’
?
May 27th 2011 @ 8:24am
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:24am | Report comment
The price of pedantry etc :Man Utd have “only” won 12 League titles under Ferguson, the other 7 were before his time. But I know what you mean!
May 27th 2011 @ 10:17am
Stalker said | May 27th 2011 @ 10:17am | Report comment
“You mean Henry’s team has won the equivalent of 19 league titles, many FA Cups, League Cups, Super Cups, and two Champions League titles?”
What???
Has Man been #1 for the last 4 years straight? No. Are they a international team? No. Have more than 5 teams, ever beaten the All Blacks at home? No. Against the 2nd best team in their competition, do they have a 68% winning %? No.
Did you compare the All Blacks to Man U instead of Fergurson to Henry? Yes.
On results for the teams, the All Blacks are far superior. On results for the coaches, well, just look at the winning %’s. They are both great coaches in their own right but id rather have Gus than Ferguson.
Its a different kettle of fish and you cant compare the two.
Hypothetically, its be interesting to see the two swap for a season and see just what would happen.
May 27th 2011 @ 11:35am
Pot Hale said | May 27th 2011 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Thank you for the links to information, Stalker.
What was your point in including them?
And why would you bring up Ireland’s record against the All Blacks – what’s that got to do with Alex Ferguson or Graham Henry? Neither of them were involved with Ireland at any point bar Henry as coach of the B&I Lions.
I think that you’ll find it’s Spurs who are 5th and they haven’t beaten Man U many times. Much to the distrait of Ben S and myself.
By the way, I didn’t make the comparison of Henry with Ferguson – the first commenter did. I wouldn’t describe Henry as the Ferguson of rugby at all. Which is why I questioned it.
It’s a bit of an apples and pears comparison really even though Henry has one of the best records as a test rugby coach.
Ferguson is on another level as a manager of arguably the biggest football club team in the world. His team plays games against 19 other league teams home and away each season, along with 6 or 7 top european teams as part of the Champions league, and another 5 or 6 teams as part of two more domestic cup competitions. They’ve been there or thereabouts for over a decade in all of them – about 50 games a season.
ABs play the same two teams every year in a mini-cup/league comp. And then play 3 or 4 lesser-ranked teams in a non-competition format at the end of the season, one of them usually to raise money. It’s all a bit limited in comparison. Winning percentage over the same two teams year after year after year doesn’t really compare in my book. He was crap with Wales and the Lions and they’re part of his record as a coach, as well as the RWC.
Your second last line sounds like you agree with me really.
“Its a different kettle of fish and you can’t compare the two.”
You’re right, you can’t. I wouldn’t even start.
May 27th 2011 @ 3:21pm
jokerman said | May 27th 2011 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
Pot hale, you talk some rubbish. Admittedly to defend your first negative position you put yourself in claiming Henry is no Fergusson. To say “Winning percentage over the same two teams year after year after year doesn’t really compare in my book”..is absurd. Those two teams are S.A and Australia number 2 and 3 in the world behind the All blacks. They usually follow up those games playing 4-8. That being England, Ireland, France at the end of the year. In essence you are defending your position, a negative one and your goal is to defend it (fate of the ego) at all costs…and against the truth and facts.
May 27th 2011 @ 5:01pm
Darwin Stubbie said | May 27th 2011 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
The comment that he was crap when in charge of wales says it all really and the lions tour also needs a better analysis also
May 28th 2011 @ 2:15am
Pot Hale said | May 28th 2011 @ 2:15am | Report comment
Darwin – I disagree with you about Wales. And agree with you about the Lions tour – hasty judgement on my part.
May 28th 2011 @ 2:13am
Pot Hale said | May 28th 2011 @ 2:13am | Report comment
Jokeman
To respond in kind – you talk some rubbish too. My position isn’t negative. If you prefer I’ll make it a positive one so that you’re clear. Ferguson is far better than Henry – and his track record speaks for itself.
And you can take your “fate of the ego” condescending claptrap and stick it on the highest rafter of the roof of your arse. That might sound negative, but in truth it’s meant as a positive exhortation to you.
May 27th 2011 @ 5:56am
BennO said | May 27th 2011 @ 5:56am | Report comment
Berrick did play a blinder that night.
To add to the stories of Henry’s coaching, I remember watching his fist test in charge of Wales which was against England. I don’t recall when it was exactly (97/98 maybe?) but it was impressive what Henry did with that Welsh team. They were given no chance and played with a very small back 3, from memory Howarth (a former AB or Auckland full back) along with the fairly green Shane Williams were there. Sadly I don’t think the Welsh won that day but they played a blinder and very nearly did. Someone else might need to correct me on these details. But regardless, the Welsh play that day certainly set the tone for me to give this guy a lot of respect.
Being a fairly one eyed wallaby fan, the AB’s loss to the French in 07 somewhat dulled the pain of our own loss, but it didn’t change my view of his coaching. One loss doesn’t taint a career, even if it did seem fairly avoidable. Since then he’s done very well I think to return the ABs to their rightful No 1 ranking. As others have said on these pages, if there is any justice the ABs will win the world cup this year.
But best rugby coach there has ever been? Surely that has to go to either Dwyer, McQueen or Deans who have had so much test match success despite not having the cattle
May 27th 2011 @ 7:56am
Not Link said | May 27th 2011 @ 7:56am | Report comment
If you look at the players that Dwyer & McQueen had at their disposal, there were some world class names among those groups. So I don’t think that your argument with them stands up.
As for including Deans in there, what exactly has he done to deserve that title? Certainly the Super Rugby titles create a solid foundation, however the relative lack at International level counts against him. 10 losses in a row to the All Blacks, the 53-8 hammering in South Africa, the loss to Scotland, these aren’t exactly the mark of the Best Coach Ever.
By all means lets pay homage to great coaches, but I’m not sure what it serves to say Coach X is better than Coach Y when there are so many determining factors (not least how they are perceived by the person judging).
May 27th 2011 @ 8:30am
BennO said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:30am | Report comment
I thought the
would make it clear that this comment was tongue in cheek. Given the recent history of Deans good coach/bad coach on these pages, I was trying to throw in a bit of ironic distance.
May 27th 2011 @ 9:02am
Not Link said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Sorry mate, didn’t see that
May 27th 2011 @ 9:31am
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Dwyer was a weird coach frm 1982-1983. Every single player had to have ball skills and vision. That including second rowers!
Not only that but he didn’t select the most balanced sides. Like playing both Roche and Poidevin in France in 1983. Both were identical backrowers, only Poidevin was a little taller. But he sacrificed the Wallabies obtaining any line-out ball from the back by playing those two. Alan Jones remedied that with David Codey.
With Tuynaman Australia had ball skills and jumping ability. With Poidevin they had scavenging ability. And with Codey Australia had ball carrying ability. That was a balanced backrow that Dwyer didn’t select in 1982-83. There’ve been better Australian backrows, the two best being Finegan-Smith-Kefu (probably the best) and Shaw-Cornelson-Loane, but a more balanced backrow?
Really Australia couldn’t afford having such a dogmatic coach, especially when Queensland were so dominant. Dwyer almost had to compensate the Queenslanders for picking the Ella brothers by picking an all Queensland forward pack. It was just messy.
By 1988 Dwyer was much more cautious to change things, and my his own admission, benefitted from the vision of the Great Alan Jones. I’ll say it for the 100th time, Australian rugby owes a debt to Alan Jones it hasn’t repaid. He’ll never get the due respect he deserves. PUT HIM IN THE AUSTRALIAN RUGBY HALL OF FAME!
May 27th 2011 @ 4:41pm
jeznez said | May 27th 2011 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
The Kefu, Wilson, Cockbain backrow was extremely balanced. Kefu carried the ball, Wilson scavenged and Cockbain created a lineout option and tackled everything that moved. Individually none of them was complete but as a unit the sum was truly greater than its parts.
The Gavin, Ofahengaue, Poidevin/Miller back row was also a favourite of mine – it also stood up when Gavin got injured and Coker came in.
May 27th 2011 @ 9:25pm
sheek said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
Frank,
Dwyer’s first-ever Wallabies team in 1982 was a real doozy, & reflected his totally unrealistic & unbalanced viewpoint at the time.
For starters, he selected Glen & Mark Ella ahead of both Roger Gould & Paul McLean, when at the time the latter two were probably a tad ahead in all-round goodness. He then put Hawker on the wing & O’Connor at inside centre, when normally Hawker was an inside centre & O’Connor played either outside centre or winger.
Talk about shuffling the chairs around & around!
Then because he had omitted both McLean & Gould, he had a kick-off between Hawker & O’Connor for goalkicker. Strangely, Hawker won the job although generally O’Connor was the more recognised kicker.
You really can’t blame so many players pulling out of the NZ tour in 1982. Dwyer really managed to get so many of them offside through his dogmatic & flawed thinking. Yes, he came back a better coach, thank the stars.
And I agree, we owe Alan Jones so much. But because of all the jealousy associated with him, he’ll never get the credit he deserves. He was really a genius for picking the right player for each position.
He even modified his philosophy to accommodate both Mark Ella & David Campese. On the 1984 GS tour, although he had given the captaincy to Slack, Ella was given free-rein to call the backline attacking moves. Later he gave Campese a roving license, although it wasn’t in his normal coaching to be so liberal.
May 27th 2011 @ 5:58am
Rio Salada said | May 27th 2011 @ 5:58am | Report comment
Always enjoy an apotheosis, Frank. Yes, indeed, GH is a great coach. And if the ABs lose to the Boks In Pt Elizabeth and the Wallabies in Brisbane in the TN, and lose to the Boks in the RWC semis, he’ll still be a great coach. Just not quite as great. But definitely greater than PdV and Dingo unless the ABs also lose to the Boks in Wellington and the Wallabies in Auckland. But that’s not going to happen. No way the ABs will lose even one home game in the TN let alone two.
No, I believe that, come late afternoon August 6, GH will still be a great coach.
May 27th 2011 @ 6:32am
Andrew Deans said | May 27th 2011 @ 6:32am | Report comment
Graham Henry is the coach who presided over the British and Irish Lions’ first and only test series loss against Australia…
May 27th 2011 @ 8:05am
sheek said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:05am | Report comment
Andrew,
Yeah, that’s true, if you disregard the one-off win in 1930. But it might have also had something to do with the precious mental state of the Brits, especially the English. I recall reading at the time the Lions baulked at the heavy training Henry demanded of them.
Losing the series did England a favour. The English members of the Lions (many of them) realised that to win the world cup in 2003, they needed to work much harder.
May 27th 2011 @ 7:12pm
Ben S said | May 27th 2011 @ 7:12pm | Report comment
‘Andrew,
Yeah, that’s true, if you disregard the one-off win in 1930. But it might have also had something to do with the precious mental state of the Brits, especially the English. I recall reading at the time the Lions baulked at the heavy training Henry demanded of them.
Losing the series did England a favour. The English members of the Lions (many of them) realised that to win the world cup in 2003, they needed to work much harder.’
That’s not true. It was the non-English players who baulked at the training (although that is not to say the English didn’t think the tour was badly planned and managed by the various coaches), many of whom came back from the tour noting the good habits of the English players.
May 27th 2011 @ 3:05pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 27th 2011 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
Andrew,
The Lions have nobody but themselves to blame for that. Matt Dawson bad-mouthed Henry behind his back to the British media. Austin Healey was the same. Martin Johnson said he’d go home if they sent Dawson home. Johnson liked Henry, but he thought he was being a leader by sticking up for Daws.
One of the great things about MacQueen is the Wallaby side had guidelines in place to prevent players badmouthing team-mates in the media. Healey and Dawson would never have badmouthed their team mates if they were Wallabies.
I’m not saying Henry wasn’t outcoached by MacQueen in that series, but the behaviour of the Lions was appauling. When that side worked together they were one of the best sides ever seen, when they bickered and squablled they fell apart.
It was like a side full of Ackermanis’s.
May 27th 2011 @ 5:56pm
stuff happens said | May 27th 2011 @ 5:56pm | Report comment
It’s all very well saying saying the behaviour of the LIons was ‘appalling’ but that is the job of the coach to sort out. This is why coaching the LIons is such a challenge because for most of their careers it is ingrained in players to regard those from the other “Home” nations as the enemy.
The English couldn’t stand Henry’s attitude & I’ve never read before that Johnson liked him – quite the contrary.The last time I read anything about it in the UK was that he hasn’t changed his mind.
The Lions tour was a bridge too far for Graham Henry as it was for Woodward in NZ who was a disaster. It is a special job which few have handled well.
On a positive note his performance since the RWC in France has been terrific after the pathetic whinging about the ref after the loss to the French. (Ye gods you’re supposed to be the All Blacks and your complaining about the ref!!)
“Great” – ask me in November.
May 28th 2011 @ 7:50am
ohtani's jacket said | May 28th 2011 @ 7:50am | Report comment
Funnily enough, Henry just spoke about this:
”This Lions team was a pretty good bunch of players but I didn’t coach them particularly well, which still irritates me,” Henry said. ”I concentrated on trying to win the series, rather than develop the players and getting to know them closely. You learn from those things. We had a couple of guys in the team, one by the name of [Austin] Healey, who were a pain in the arse quite frankly.”
May 27th 2011 @ 8:04am
Damo said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Which gives weight to the dominance of McQueen when he was an international coach
May 27th 2011 @ 8:14am
sheek said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Damo,
I also read around that time that MacQueen decided to retire because many of the Wallabies were heartily sick of him, his personal relationship with some breaking down. This was a Wallabies team full of strong-willed agitators, but it was also a team with steel in its spine, & players who refused to give up until the final whistle.
The truth is, the Wallabies over-achieved in both 2001 & 2003, due to their collective hard mental toughness. They were hard cases.
But I’m still a fan of MacQueen, all the same…..
May 27th 2011 @ 9:22am
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:22am | Report comment
“The truth is, the Wallabies over-achieved in both 2001 & 2003, due to their collective hard mental toughness. They were hard cases.”
This needs to be quoted for truth.
No way the Wallabies should have won the 2001 Lions Series. No way. But that response in the second half of the second Test proved they were mentally tougher. It wasn’t just Roff. Gregan and the backrow was stunning.
The Wallabies used to be the big match side of world rugby. They won so many close games that could have gone either way. People forget the 2000 South Africa match where Mortlock kicked the winning penalty. I mean people remember the penalty, but they forget that South Africa scored with four minutes to go, and the Wallabies ever so calmly worked their way into South African territory to earn the penalty.
There were many games like that. The 2003 World Cup final was another. England was by far the better side. And while people tlak about the reffing, the Wallabies were pretty massive to come back from 9 points down.
It’s kind of ironic. MacQueen gave the Wallabies the gift of leadership, so they knew how to react in tight situations, to the point where they questioned whether they even needed Rod. Before MacQueen’s retirement there was a rumour in the media that a Wallabies player felt that the Wallabies could coach themselves, and that they contribute so much to the planning of the side that the coach wasn’t that important.
MacQueen took that as the ultimate compliment!
To him it was like: yeah I wanted them to contribute. I wanted them to feel confident in the gameplan, so I allow them to contribute. I want them to feel secure and confidence and responsible etc. I’m a leader who appoints leaders.I want them to feel in control etc.
MacQueen goes and the Wallabies lose that steel! To be fair they had some good wins ealry on in Jones’ reign. But man the Wallabies of today are a far cry from the Wallabies of 1998-2002, what with throwing away massive leads, and playing helter skelter rugby.
May 27th 2011 @ 8:18am
sheek said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Frank,
Beautifully written. I still don’t think there’s much between Henry & Deans, except that henry has enjoyed an advantage in cattle at the national level.
Both coaches have been willing to evolve, another sign of their greatness.
it was a mistake Henry resting players key players in 2007. You can’t wrap players in cotton wool, it doesn’t work that way. The game, by its very nature, will cause injuries. You can protect a player for an upcoming major tournament, & he gets injured first game back. You can’t prevent the roll of the dice.
Players want to, & need to, ….. play. You take your chances with injuries.
May 27th 2011 @ 9:30am
Fog said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Henry was also an important part of what I think was the best ever Super team, the 2003 Blues
May 27th 2011 @ 4:50pm
jeremy said | May 27th 2011 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
Hear, hear. What a final
May 27th 2011 @ 8:53pm
Sylvester Hyde said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
Better than the unbeaten Crusaders of 2002?
May 28th 2011 @ 1:59pm
Fog said | May 28th 2011 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Yep, I think so. The Blues attack zone started on their own dead ball line. Just great to watch. Spencer finally had a back line that could work off his improvisational skills.
May 27th 2011 @ 3:15pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 27th 2011 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
Thanks Bruce.
It’s hard to say how good a coach Deans is. We all know he’s a great coach, but as I’ve said many times here, something about Deans and Australia hasn’t clicked. On one hand it felt like he changed things that were working well, like Australia’s defence. Instead the Wallabies adopted a Crusaders’ style defence and were no longer the world’s best (or second best – depending on how you rated New Zealand) defence.
Why he consistently persisted with Giteau at 10 I don’t know. Why he persisted with Baxter and Dunning in 2008 I don’t know. It seemed like a lightbulb went off in Deans’ head in 2009 when he took Baxter off around the 20th minute in New Zealand. Why he persisted with Burgess, I don’t know. Burgess has improved since 2009, but in 2009 he was a liability. He and Giteau formed the weakest 9-10 partnership I think I’ve ever seen.
There are many things that can be put on the players. But there are selections and decisions that can be placed on Deans.
I hate the ‘Australia doesn’t have the cattle’ argument because it’s soft. Even when it’s true it sounds un-Australian to me. The Wallabies used to beat New Zealand when New Zealand were the better side, but Australia were the cocky underdogs who were never intimidated. I liked that. Watch Tony Shaw talk about Australia in the late 70s, whent hey were fighting for respect, and how much they wanted to beat New Zealand. THAT’S AUSTRALIAN RUGBY! When people say it’s okay, Australia are the second best team in the world, that’s what’s wrong with Australian rugby.
I don’t know how much we can criticise Deans for the performance of Australia’s backline, but Ewen McKenzie transformed the Reds’ back in no time flat.
May 27th 2011 @ 4:50pm
jeznez said | May 27th 2011 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
Thank Tony Woodcock for pulling those penalties – he forced Deans into action there.
May 27th 2011 @ 8:32am
Darwin Stubbie said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:32am | Report comment
I don’t think there is any doubt that Henry is a great coach and should he win the W-cup this year he’ll hold a place as one NZ’s best ever … and it will be interesting to see what he does if he wins it – it would surprise me if he stays on in some sort of capacity – similar to Brian Lahore.
He’s often maligned regarding his overseas stint – but in reality he turned the welsh from being a basket case for decades into an extremely competitive unit … and his lions gig also gets hammered esp from the NH pundits without really looking at the circumstances other than saying he didn’t utilise the English core players to maximum advantage and he didn’t gel the respective nationalities together .… but in reality lions tours are extremely hard to win and Australia would be one of the hardest tours – even without the undoubted strength of their team at that time – SA and NZ offer the really good Lions coaches a perfect environment to hone their squad with tough tour games – Australia doesn’t really offer a coach those similar options … Woodwood failed massively in NZ for various reasons – but one of his biggest failings was he didn’t utilise the benefits of playing against the provinces … Henry didn’t have those options –games against WA etc just weren’t any benefit – sure there were games like Aust A but there weren’t enough of them …. in a perverse way I actually think Henry would have been a better lions coach (if circumstances were different) in ’05 and Woodward was probably better suited for the ’01 tour … but despite that he still went close to pulling it off against an extremely good Australian outfit
In respect him being re-hired, it would be interesting to actually find out the NZRFU thought processes that went into the whole thing … Deans undoubtedly was a standout provincial coach – but had baggage from ’03 and has proven since he’s struggled as an international coach … I’m sure part of the process was to look at the idea of retaining W/cup experience rather than the standard sacking option after a failure .. but I also wonder if they also didn’t think what JON might do if he missed out on Deans and whether they thought that there may have been a possibility he would approach Henry … would Henry in charge of the Wallabies over the last 3+ years have been something the NZRFU feared more than losing Deans ?
May 28th 2011 @ 2:06pm
defunkt said | May 28th 2011 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Of course many say the All Blacks went into their shell in the ’07 quarter final and didn’t play smart rugby but beyond a shadow of a doubt they did enough to win that match but for the officiating. How often at that level does a team spend 20 minutes attacking in the opposing 22 without earning a single penalty? It’s unheard of, never-mind forward passes and that absurd sin-binning of McAlister.
In my opinion the NZRFU’s choice to retain Henry was an affirmation that you can’t hold a coach (especially one with Henry’s winning record) responsible for outrageously bad officiating in one match.
May 27th 2011 @ 8:43am
johnny-boy said | May 27th 2011 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Ah FOK, this is surely a wind up. Sorry to spoil your man/kiwi crush but Graeme Henry is responsible fo some of the biggest coaching stuff ups in history and there aint none bigger than the 2007 World Cup. I dislike the man with a passion, not only because of his arrogance in deciding he would cruel the Super 12 leading up to the World Cup and put his players in cotton wool because he thought he was simply more important than anything or anybody else but, to exacerbate it he refused to take responsibility for his actions and even tried to palm the blame off to Richie McCaw. His cowardice just made me sick and turned me off the All Blacks for life. Rod Macqueen was ten times the coach Henry ever will be (but whether he can recapture it remains to be seen). I live in hope that Henry gets his come-uppance, again in the upcoming World Cup . Colin Meads summed up the attitude of most real men in NZ in 2007 when referring to the All Black coaches when he said ” sack the lot of them “. Of course what would Meads know.
May 27th 2011 @ 9:38am
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Meads was a terrible, terrible rugby administrator for New Zealand, making sure that Mains was coach instead of Hart. I’m not privy to the whole story, but apparently there was a real political move in New Zealand after the 1991 World Cup debacle to minimize the influence Auckland had on New Zealand rugby. Meads wanted Mains. He kept mains. Mains continually selected players who weren’t Auckland, which included dropping Michael Jones for one game. Zinzan Brooke had a tough time too. I mean I know to New Zealanders he’s like the Bradman of rugby (Alan Jones says that’s Campo!), but his decision didn’t help New Zealand in those years.
A fellow I know from North Harbour (a strange and bizarre lad who grew up idolizing Buck Shelford and Joe Stanley) once said that hate Auckland as you can, the All Blacks were only ever as strong as Auckland was.
When Yorkshire is strong, English cricket is strong. When New South Wales is strong, Australian cricket is strong. When Queensland is strong, Australian rugby is strong. When Auckland is strong, New Zealand are strong.
Had Meads got his way after the 2007 World Cup New Zealand would be having problems right now.
May 27th 2011 @ 9:44pm
zhenry said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:44pm | Report comment
Like a lot of stuff you write but disagree with your line-ups here. Pity Mains was sacked after 1995 WC he had a lot to offer I thought. There was much sabotage during that WC, the Zulu uprising that was going to smash the Mandela Govt. if the ABs won and the poison farce. Hart was kept on as coach for 2 terms too long, MacQueen showed him up. He was the worst of NZ in my opinion, pompous, black and white and brutal in relationships, the only coach that the retiring AB greats (after the 1997 season) never mentioned.
There has been a provincial favourtism in all NZ coaches but in limited respects except for the Mitchell/Deans effort (we don’t know what the duo would have produced if Deans had been head coach). Henry has excelled (overall) with his selections over almost any previous coach. Since Henry left Auckland I think Canterbury would have to take over the AB comparison compliment. However the whole bloody lot will go down the drain and flood into AU, if the present NZRU CEOs remain in power; that and the rampart prejudice of the AU owned NZ media.
May 28th 2011 @ 6:47am
Sam Taulelei said | May 28th 2011 @ 6:47am | Report comment
Mains wasn’t sacked, he didn’t reapply for the position and given his role in the WRC affair his employers weren’t particularly enamoured with him.
Contrary to popular opinion, the only NZ world cup coach to have been sacked is John Mitchell. Lochore retired, Wyllie stood down, Mains didn’t reapply and Hart resigned.
May 27th 2011 @ 9:08am
Wall-Nut said | May 27th 2011 @ 9:08am | Report comment
How could Henry be so great? I lost respect in the last world cup!
That’s all I remember from his greatness.
Last world cup I remember the most that, anyone and anything could be done for the All Blacks was done.
What a big flop that was.
I don’t understand why Deans cops a battering on this site and Henry gets praised.
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May 27th 2011 @ 4:52pm
jeremy said | May 27th 2011 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
I don’t understand why Deans cops a battering on this site and Henry gets praised.
Because Henry’s a better coach?
May 27th 2011 @ 7:44pm
Jerry said | May 27th 2011 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
Perhaps cause under Henry the AB’s have their best winning percentage in the professional era, whereas under Deans the Wallabies have their worst? Just a thought.
May 27th 2011 @ 10:13pm
zhenry said | May 27th 2011 @ 10:13pm | Report comment
I think Henry did stuff that 2007 WC, but Barnes appalling performance (the ref) was the real trigger for a whole confluence of negative events during that game, some mentioned above. Deans has had to rebuild, not so for Henry. I doubt very much if Henry would be more successful with the WALs (don’t think O’Neill would have even made the offer). Only way to tell would be to swap them around.
May 28th 2011 @ 6:33am
Jerry said | May 28th 2011 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Henry didn’t have to rebuild? Did he just change half the team in 2008 for larks then?