League, the clubs and the pokies
By ceriseblood, 8 Jul 2011 Joe Frost is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- David Gallop, National Rugby League, NRL, NSWRL, pokie reform, pokies, Rugby League
127 Have your say
The NRL has decided to weigh in on the proposed poker machine legislation, announcing Steve Mortimer will star in a game day campaign against the proposal to make pokies players register for a card and set daily bet limits.
The decision to get involved is one aimed at appeasing Australia’s licensed clubs (who profit so highly from pokies) as NRL CEO David Gallop explained.
“Last year, clubs ran 1,130 junior rugby league clubs, and donated $40 million to help fund the purchase of football jumpers, shorts, socks, trophies, insurance, medical kits, referee outfits and ground development,” he said.
The breakdown of Mr. Gallop’s $40 million, according to the “It’s un-Australian” website, is $25 million to NRL clubs and $15 million to junior development. Surely that should be reversed?
Mr. Mortimer, meanwhile, is not just willing to put his face on a campaign, he’s put his two cents in as well saying: “This technology on the poker machines will strip rugby league and other junior sports of hundreds of millions of dollars of support the clubs have always provided.
“Our sport would never recover from that sort of blow.”
Phil Gould has weighed in on the issue a number of times too, most recently in his Sun Herald column on Sunday June 5, 2011.
“The poker-machine taxes and newly proposed legislations are a huge problem… If you are a rugby league fan, let me tell you this government is well on the way to destroying the club and hospitality industry, your club, and game of rugby league at all levels in the Sydney metropolitan area,” he wrote.
These are a series of pretty big statements from Mortimer and Gould, although the largest would be the Bulldog saying, “Our sport would never recover,” and the Panther saying the current government is going to destroy “your club, and game of rugby league at all levels in the Sydney metropolitan area.”
So far the game has survived over 100 years, two world wars, the great depression, a decade in which only one team won the premiership (seriously, it’s held up as a golden era but wouldn’t every non-St George supporter have thought of it as the dark ages?) the Super League war and more scandals of the sex, drugs and rock ’n’ roll persuasion than could ever be counted.
But it will be Julia Gillard’s government that finally destroys the game (probably because she’s an AFL supporter) and right on the verge of signing a TV rights deal that is supposed to fetch upwards of $1 billion.
Of course said billion dollars has just been put that little further out of reach because when two of the game’s most prominent people make predictions of a pokie tax destroying the game, it significantly undermines the NRL’s bargaining power.
Australian TV stations aren’t going to pay top dollar for a game that’s so desperate for funding it isn’t going to survive a change in poker machine legislation.
The reality is rugby league isn’t going to die by people putting less money through the pokies because the game has various streams of revenue that have evolved with the times.
Legend goes the South Sydney Rabbitohs got their club name because the players used to sell rabbit meat to the people of South Sydney to supplement their incomes – in fact, depending on which version of history you read, the rabbits may have been alive and the player would kill it fresh for the customer.
From 1960 to 1995, the NSWRL (and ARL for one season) was sponsored by cigarette companies – firstly as the W. D. and H. O. Wills Cup and then the Winfield Cup from 1982 and, of course, these days it’s the media rights which bring in the big bucks.
So let’s assume the billion dollar deal does get done and all of a sudden the NRL are in a situation where their operating budget has doubled.
Perhaps they could use some of that sexy new money to do what they encourage so many of their athletes do when their long and lucrative career has run its course – give something back.
In fact, they don’t need to give back per se, just stop putting their hand out for money from the clubs and instead use the money from the media rights deal to fund the $40 million the clubs have contributed until this point, giving the clubs $40 million a year to help restructure.
And restructuring is all the clubs need – in the media release in which ClubsAustralia complain about what the pokie reforms are going to do to their bottom line they also crow about how they have supported rugby league for nearly 100 years.
Since pokies were only legalised in NSW in 1956, clubs must have had other streams of revenue for the first 50 years they supported the game?
Membership fees, club restaurants, live entertainment and alcohol contribute a bucket-load towards a clubs’ bottom line, and if a reduction in poker machine gambling is going to send a club under, it’s probably not in a position to be giving money to an NRL club.
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July 8th 2011 @ 5:34am
Paul Bendat said | July 8th 2011 @ 5:34am | Report comment
Let’s not forget that by their own admission, NSW pokie clubs rake in over $800 million a year in gambling losses from problem gamblers.
July 8th 2011 @ 6:41am
p.Tah said | July 8th 2011 @ 6:41am | Report comment
Rugby League is being used as a political tool by the Hotels Association to have this potential legislation thrown out. ‘RL will die’ is very emotive. As you say RL will survive because it’s has other income streams. AFL clubs don’t have ‘Leagues’ clubs and their junior development is exceptional.
Does the argument that pokies help junior rugby league and the NRL offset the trauma and hardship that pokies cause for problem gamblers and their families? Some suffer for the greater good of the community? I don’t think so. There are other options. I have a great amount of time for David Gallop. I’m disappointed he has weighed into this debate.
In reality this has very little to do with RL. It’s about the clubs profitability. Pokies are an easy revenue stream ( no staff required). Clubs do a lot of good for the community (subsidised meals for pensioners etc.) but I have a sense of unease that this good is a result of others suffering. Clubs need to look for another income stream and be less reliant on pokies. It would be nice if they brought back live music and reinvigorate that industry.
July 8th 2011 @ 8:34am
Tigranes said | July 8th 2011 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Mortimer and Gould are full of s**t on this and should stick to RL, and leave this stuff to Andrew Wilkie to convince parliament.
No mention of problem gamblers at all and the damage that it does to the community – problem gambling can smash families apart and force people to steal and defraud putting more pressure on the police.
One salient point is that clubs in WA do not have poker machines (outside Burswood Casino) – yet their junior sport (AFL, rugby, soccer) seems unaffected.
But overall maybe gambling has taken control of RL – after all TAB sponsors the Origin, casinos and Centrebet sponsor teams. How often do you hear Ray Warren saying it might be worth putting a punt on the Blues to win at half time given the odds. With his problem with gambling not too wise Rabs.
July 8th 2011 @ 6:33pm
Damien said | July 8th 2011 @ 6:33pm | Report comment
I’m a huge fan of Gus, but he doesn’t get my support on this issue.
Problem gambling is a huge problem.
League has to change and come up with other forms of revenue.
Like p.Tah said, Pokies is easy money but there is just something wrong about seeing a room full of bright lights with people in a trance like state pushing buttons hoping to hit it big..
July 8th 2011 @ 8:37am
Redb said | July 8th 2011 @ 8:37am | Report comment
“But it will be Julia Gillard’s government that finally destroys the game (probably because she’s an AFL supporter) and right on the verge of signing a TV rights deal that is supposed to fetch upwards of $1 billion.”
Seriously paranoid.
July 10th 2011 @ 3:00pm
Grubby Gus said | July 10th 2011 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
Julia Gillard didn’t sign anything, foxtel, channel 7 and telstra have signed a $1.25b tv rights deal with the AFL. Pokies affect AFL as much as NRL, its a shame that sport relies on gambling for its revenue, instead of crowd attendance and membership. I wonder what Gould thinks about the fact that 2 very succsessful football clubs in W.A have acieved all they have without one poker machine. If you need pokies to stay afloat, you deserve to sink, and as far as pokies creating jobs, thats rubbish, look what pokies have done to the pub music scene.
July 11th 2011 @ 9:14am
Redb said | July 11th 2011 @ 9:14am | Report comment
From memory the AFL does ok with crowds and membership, sure pokies revenue supplements some clubs but if it disappeared overnight AFL clubs would cope as they have a wider spread of revenue than NRL clubs and thats what scares a lot of you.
July 8th 2011 @ 8:43am
turbodewd said | July 8th 2011 @ 8:43am | Report comment
I am not a fan of pokies at all. They do ZERO good. The NRL clubs must aim to be profitable as a football enterprise. The AFL succeeds without pokies dont they? This is exactly why unprofitable NRL clubs must be allowed to perish – so we can spread the TV revenue over less teams. Then we wouldnt need the accursed pokies.
I am sick of gambling now coating the NRL website and featuring so much during TV broadcasts. Wont stop me watching footy, but Im not a fan of it at all.
Im also sick of how NRL jerseys look like court jester outfits – covered in multi-colored ads.
July 8th 2011 @ 8:55am
Crosscoder said | July 8th 2011 @ 8:55am | Report comment
I dont like poker machines at all,and the sooner the code loses any reliance on them the better.
That being said the inference that somehow AFL clubs don’t get money form the dreaded one arm bandits,is revealed for what it’s worth as a furphy.In fact an embarrassing furphy.
http://www.theage.com.au/action/printArticle?id=1976515
You will note Roy Masters is not the author,nor does it originate from a Sydney tabloid.
July 8th 2011 @ 10:05am
Redb said | July 8th 2011 @ 10:05am | Report comment
The difference is the AFL does not pin it’s junior development on pokies money.
July 8th 2011 @ 2:02pm
Crosscoder said | July 8th 2011 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
That doesn’t avoid the sporting clubs in your code,ripping off people who can least afford it ,and include it in general revenue.Then go into holier than thou mode.
July 8th 2011 @ 2:31pm
Redb said | July 8th 2011 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Your the one that brought the AFL into it. There is a major difference.
The AFL is responsible for junior development it took this over years ago so it is not reliant on individual clubs and their agendas/management. The AFL is miles ahead.
July 9th 2011 @ 10:07am
Crosscoder said | July 9th 2011 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Not quite RedB ,when you came into the debate(a known AFL flag waver)guns blazing aiming at the NRL doing what I also consider a dumb commercial for a social evil,when the same social evil is present in your code’s clubs,your position was somewhat compormised.
You can’t pretend to be whiter than white,when the problem exists albeit not to the extent of the NRL ,in your own backyard.
The AFL is ahead that I will concede (but hardly lilly white).However in plain black and white ,it has been established in the Age by a Gambling commissioner.,that these infernal machines(that rip off people)are also used to fund AFL players.It is an inescapable fact.Why does Collingwood with all their membership etc need them.
If I had my way they would all be banned,what about you RedB?
July 10th 2011 @ 3:05pm
Grubby Gus said | July 10th 2011 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
Well being a both AFL and NRL supporter, I say atleast limit the pokies. Collingwood actually dont need them, i mean their wealth from members and crowd attendance is rediculous and you have 2 very wealthy clubs in W.A who have achieved that wealth without a single pokie. If your any club relying on pokies to stay afloat, sink i say or get some members.
July 8th 2011 @ 2:49pm
clipper said | July 8th 2011 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Crosscoder – I think we can agree that two wrongs don’t make a right, and problem gambling is a blight on society. However, the crux of the story is that Gallop, Mortimer and Gould are actively campaigning against this reform, and the moral ambiguity that goes with this. If people at the AFL camp do the same thing, we can debate that as well.
July 9th 2011 @ 9:56am
Crosscoder said | July 9th 2011 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Clipper I have already stated I don’t like them,and I don’t like the NRL advertising them.
I am against them ,cigarettes,alcohol abuse.
What I find ironic is AFL people banging on, as though there is no poker machin influence in their code,when there patently is.
If people from the AFL camp come on board expressing their views using the moralistic stance against poker machines/NRL,they have entered the debate by virtue of their code’s involvement.
Unless it is a cse of do as I say,not as I do.
July 10th 2011 @ 3:07pm
Grubby Gus said | July 10th 2011 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
Pokies are clearly in AFL clubs, except Gold Coast, freo and west coast, not sure about the south aust teams.
July 8th 2011 @ 1:23pm
GoGWS said | July 8th 2011 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Gallop was quoted as saying NRL clubs get $25m per annum from their Leagues clubs (aka pokie palaces)…that’s a huge proportion of overall annual funding…..the last broadcast deal for the NRL was $500m over 6 years and presumably this was topped up by $150m of pokie profits over that time (or an amount in that ball park)…I agree some Victorian-based AFL have their snouts in the pokies trough as well but the proportion of funding to AFL clubs from pokies compared to overall funding is far lower….pokie taxes and the pre-commitment changes will hurt AFL clubs less on average than NRL clubs…
if you’re being frank about it this is much more an NRL issue than an AFL issue ….Gallop’s thrown the NRL’s lot in with the hysterical campaign to oppose sensible measures proposed by Wilkie – an opposition campaign full of lies, empty rhetoric, exaggeration and leaps of logic…. Demetriou and the AFL remain silent as far as I know (though there was grumbling from some Victorian-base AFL club presidents)…
July 8th 2011 @ 1:30pm
Redb said | July 8th 2011 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
There has been zero AFL involvement in advertising to protect pokies gambling unlike rugby league/NRL. The AFL Exec runs junior development. Some AFL clubs have pokies to supplement off field income the revenue is generated for the club not the game itself unlike rugby league.
July 8th 2011 @ 2:11pm
mick h said | July 8th 2011 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
leagues clubs were established under their consitution to fund their rugby league teams and their juniors ( eg souths juniors pay over 1 million a year to support the ssdjrl). rugby league clubs and the nrl are entitled to protect their vested interests unlike that wilkie who was elected on a minority of the vote. the problem with the proposed legislation is it is not going to affect the casino’s. i for one support the whole club industry in preference to the casino’s and hotels
July 8th 2011 @ 2:18pm
Crosscoder said | July 8th 2011 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
RedB
We all admit poker machine monies are a curse.
Yeah of course they remain silent.When Collingwood has used a legal loophole to get taxpayers to help cover $2.7m it spent on running the club and its pokies venues in teh past year as per Mark Russell in the Age 10.10.2010.
The interesting point “But the club’s five poker machine venues-made NO COMMUNITY benefit payments to teh elderly or the poor in 2009/10,documents with teh Vic Commission for Gambling show”.
Collingwood is one of nine Melbourne based AFL clubs allowed to claim a tax break of 8.3% on pokies revenue,if they can prove they are spending at least that much on community initiatives’”
But teh piecede resisitancxe
“But under a loophole,clubs can c;laim PAYMENTS AND OFFICIALS,as well as some venue running costs ,as a benefit to the community”
And it goes on”Of the total $18.9m AFL clubs claimed to have paid out in community benefits in 2009/10,only $5.9m was under the Class A category,which defines genuine charitable purposes.”
LOL
We can therefore deduce some players and officials fall under teh the B class charity.
And here is the proof
Gambling commission exec Peter Cohen denied clubs were rorting the system.Then he goes on”AFL clubs CAN CLAIM FOR PAYMENT OF THEIR PLAYERS because that is why the club exists,so that would be part of the operataing cost”.
To suggest it is not used for the game itself is shown to be a sham.
That is what rl clubs were set up in the first place also.
July 8th 2011 @ 2:32pm
Redb said | July 8th 2011 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Deflecting again. There is one code actively protecting pokies revenue and that is the NRL.
July 8th 2011 @ 7:34pm
mick h said | July 8th 2011 @ 7:34pm | Report comment
and they are entitled to do that and like the previous labour government in nsw who treated the club industry as a whole unfairly they were punished at the ballot box and federal labour gov and the independants await the same fate
July 9th 2011 @ 10:13am
Crosscoder said | July 9th 2011 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Deflection champ,exists when there is a pretence something does not happen in one’s own backyard.I have stated I despise them,where is the deflection.I have stated I cringe at the NRL ad.I have stated openly,clubs would be better off without them if possible.
The machines are a national problem,in many sporting clubs in all codes.
When are you going to show intestinal fortitude and admit AFL club’s may also have a problem/ or is that too hard,or as you like to call it a deflection.
July 11th 2011 @ 9:08am
Redb said | July 11th 2011 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Intestinal fortitude
I dont like pokies, rarely play them.
I have made the point that the AFL does not rely on pokies revenue to fund junior sport and that is the essential difference. Further the AFL does not advertise to protect pokies revenue despite the implications for some AFL clubs if pokies revenue is reduced.
The NRL protect pokies advertisement is pathetic.
July 8th 2011 @ 2:05pm
Crosscoder said | July 8th 2011 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
And that is why GWS it is important for the code to get their $1b deal and wean themselves off the things..Of course the Vic clubs remain silent,admission that some get decent monies from the dreaded machines,would not be a good look. The age story is but an example.
July 8th 2011 @ 3:58pm
GoGWS said | July 8th 2011 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
what and if they don’t get $1bn go on raping/pillaging local communities??..regardless of what happens on the broadcast deal there is no reason to oppose the new harm minimisation measures..
July 9th 2011 @ 10:29am
Crosscoder said | July 9th 2011 @ 10:29am | Report comment
GoGWS
Firstly I recommend you take back that reference to” raping ” the community.Your dislike of the code is well known,but there is such a thing as a bit of civility in debate.I find it offensive.
Well if by chance the code does not get the $1b(and I will give you a further update),they will do as the Knights,the Sharks,The eagles,The Broncos,The Warriors,The Rabbitohs and the Storm
are doing relying less and less on them or if at all
Will Collingwoood shut down their machines in their various clubs,instead of ripping off their community.Or is that OK.
Now to fill you in on the latest.The D/T 8/7 from Steve Allen analyst of Fusion Media,said
“The ïncumbent broadcaster could use the Origin ratings to secure its network deal.
On the fundamentals ,the NRL should get a billion dollars.It will go fearfully close to it,but had the AFL not been so successfull they wouldn’t be in the position they are in now”.
I have no problem with minimisation measures,the crazy part Wee Willie Wilkie has no idea of the ideal or optimum figure.You bring in a policy and dont know the figures to utilise.Dumb and dumber.
People conveniently forget many of the clubs including NRL clubs, financially support other codes,such as netball,baseball,golf,fishing,swimming clubs,soccer and ru teams etc.They will aslo miss out,and that has to be taken into account ,in the overall debate.
July 11th 2011 @ 5:17pm
The Barry said | July 11th 2011 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
$25M ???
Most Leagues Club grants don’t cover the salary cap.
Don’t let facts get in the way champ.
July 8th 2011 @ 9:02am
Robot said | July 8th 2011 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Yeh it’s rubbish
Of all the things the NRL should be taking a stand against: Channel 9 not showing matches in HD, lack of funding for Brookvale oval, government pulling the pin on a rl hall of fame etc etc they choose to come out to fight the government in support of poker machines, a cancer on society.
clap……..clap
July 8th 2011 @ 9:03am
Dean - Surry Hills said | July 8th 2011 @ 9:03am | Report comment
As the Whitlams said – “I wish I could blow up the pokies”.
They are a scourge on society. Clubs pack as many in to a confined space as possible, and the end result are premises that lack atmosphere and character. Where is the live entertainment as a stimulus for the mind and soul ?
If pokie players gave a mere 10% of their annual losses to their club as a tax deductable donation, then there would be a far greater stream of revenue for NRL clubs and their juniors.
Let’s get back to pre 1956 when the majority of pubs and clubs were profitable without any reliance upon the one-armed bandits. They would surely be packed to the rafters again, without the smell of desperation that they currently exhibit, and I for one would be willing to attend more frequently.
July 8th 2011 @ 9:07am
Brad said | July 8th 2011 @ 9:07am | Report comment
I think League needs to wean it’s self of Poker Machine money. League clubs have lost their connection to their supporters, they get most of their income from poker machines so they don’t really need to interact with their supporters. If Poker Machine money was taken away they would have to work harder for their money but the community would be more involved and connected to the clubs. I live on the border of South Sydney, West Tigers and St George’s supposed territory. I’ve never seen a player, I’ve never seen any advertising, if I didn’t follow he game I wouldn’t know that I live in the epicentre of Sydney Rugby League. When I go into Newtown, the Newtown Jets have a merchandise stand every weekend. I know they have folded but every time I see it I’m reminded of how lazy NRL clubs are. The Jets, kicked out in the 80′s still have one of the highest selling Rugby League jumpers in the country, every second car has a Jets sticker, why? Because they work hard to stay alive, to stay connected to their community. I know NRL players are doing bugger all week, why aren’t they out trying to get more supporters, getting to know their community, connecting with and staying relevant to their community. The reason League has shit crowds (besides NSW sh*t infrastructure) is because local people haven’t “bought in” to the clubs. The NRL doesn’t need to spend millions on advertising, they just need to reconnect to their communities.
July 8th 2011 @ 9:30am
scareface said | July 8th 2011 @ 9:30am | Report comment
I hate poker machines,should never have allowed them in hotels,they are every bit as sinister as people say, I also hate the nanny state and the industry built around that and they will never stop,ciggs and pokies are the thin edge of the wedge. Everyone has a right to go to straight to hell if they choose .