NSW team to beat Queensland in 2012
By ScottWoodward.me, 12 Jul 2011 ScottWoodward.me is a Roar Guru
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- NSW Blues, NSW State of Origin, NSW State of Origin side, Ricky Stuart, Rugby League, State Of Origin
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We all know what happened in the 2011 State of Origin series. So how’s this for a New South Wales Origin team for 2012?
Fullbacks: Josh Dugan or Brett Stewart.
Wingers: Akuila Uate and Brett Morris.
Centres: Michael Jennings and Mark Gasnier.
Second receiver: Jarryd Hayne.
Halfback: Todd Carney.
Hooker: Kurt Gidley.
Props: Gallen and Keith Galloway.
Second row: Ben Creagh and Glenn Stewart.
Lock: Luke Lewis.
Bench: Anthony Watmough, Jamal Idris, Tariq Sims and Tom Learoyd-Lahrs.
Big games are decided by the crucial 1, 6, 7 and 9 spine positions, and NSW Blues coach and selector Ricky Stuart got it horribly wrong during the 2011 series.
I cannot find a place for any of his starting spine players he chose in the deciding Origin III. All four are outclassed by their Maroon counterparts.
The selection of Minichiello was more incompetent than embarrassing, but the Blues will gain a huge boost with either Dugan or Stewart, who are both world class and arguably in the same class as Slater.
Jamie Soward and Mitch Pearce are both wonderful clubs players but can only ever be described as “handy” at the elite level. “Handy” is simply not good enough when you have to counter Jonathan Thurston.
The troubled Todd Carney has the god given talent to equal any player, and if he can get his head right and find his best form, he would be an automatic selection.
Jarryd Hayne is too good to be left out (as he was in Origin I) or put on the bench, and he certainly adds more to the Blues at second receiver than what Jamie Soward has. Importantly, Hayne and Carney are both freakish and would complement each other well and be a major worry for Mal Meninga who has not lost much sleep over the Soward-Pearce pairing.
Kurt Gidley is one of the best and fittest players in the world and could do a Cam Smith and play for 80 minutes offering an extra interchange.
Lewis is a better player than Bird and should start. I would add to the bench Jamal Idris, Tariq Sims and Tom Learoyd-Lahrs who are all impact players.
Gone would be Anthony Minichiello, Jamie Soward, Mitchell Pearce, Michael Ennis and Tim Mannah. Beau Scott and Greg Bird would also go despite the fact they both went well this year, but unfortunately there are players in their positions who offer more to the team.
So, there is my blueprint pipe dream for a winning Blues team. I would back this team to win more games than they lose, but sadly that is all it is, a dream.
As long as NSW have a dictator as a coach who wants to be sole selector and god, the Maroons will continue to have the edge.
The Maroons have lost Lockyer and probably Petero, but they will get back Shillington, Taylor, Te’o, Costigan and Crocker to consider and may introduce big Rooster prop Martin Kennedy along with future national rep player Matt Gillett.
Leading try scorer Ben Barba could be a bench consideration. The Maroons will lose young Raider forward Josh Papalii to New Zealand, although maybe the new IC will correct that dumb clause.
With a Queenslander tipped to be the new chairman of the Independent Commission, it is unlikely that NSW will get independent selectors.
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July 12th 2011 @ 7:58am
JCVD said | July 12th 2011 @ 7:58am | Report comment
I completely agree with Kurt Gidley at Hooker! Im a passionate QLD fan but when Gidley comes in at hooker, NSW or any team that he plays for, he has a knack of getting a good roll on and speeding up the game.
Brett Morris is an over rated player. There are plenty of other wingers from NSW who are much better. Uate is a gun and I think he was NSW best player of the series. Everytime he touched the ball I had my heart in my throat as he was constantly making half breaks and was very dangerous.
Apart from that if you compare QLD players in same positions we are still miles in front in the majority of postions. Slater, Inglis, Thurston, Cronk, Smith, Scott and list goes on
July 12th 2011 @ 3:10pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
JCVD
Thats not correct. Lets stick to the spine.
I think Slater is the best 1 I have seen, but history may say in 10 years that Dugan is better. The fact that I am even saying this puts them both in the same bracket. Game 1 proved that.
I think Carney has more god given talent than Cronk and certainly equal or better.
If Hayne can get used to 6 there is no doubt that he can give Thurston a run for his money in an Origin series. Thurston is clearly number 1 but Hayne is world class which is not something we have ben able to say about our 6 since Fittler and Daley.
You have already pointed out how good Gids is at 9 and like Smith will will offer an extra interchange.
I rated the game 3 spine 8 points behind Qld but this spine would be much closer.
July 20th 2011 @ 11:06am
Tom said | July 20th 2011 @ 11:06am | Report comment
2012 state of origin
Fullbacks- Hayne (if injured stewart, Dugan, or Mini)
Wingers- Uate and Morris or TRex Williams (otherwise D.Simmons) Morris defence can be horrible over the past origins and even this year.
Centres- Jennings and Idris (need that speed and physicality)
Five eigths- Soward (proved very good in game 2-3)
Half back- Carney, Mullen or Pearce
Hooker- Ennis (maybe even Farah)
Props- Kade Snowden and Gallen
Second row- Ben Creagh and Watmough
Lock- G. Bird
Bench: Glen Stewart, Kurt Gidley, Luke Lewis and Tom Learoyd-Lahrs. (or beau champion and tariq simms, B. Anasta and Hindmarsh also notible mentions.
August 27th 2011 @ 11:57pm
Tom said | August 27th 2011 @ 11:57pm | Report comment
Creagh is not as good as Bird so start him, some issued the stats b4 and here they are
stats are as follows
Creagh and Bird:
Game 1: Bird 89m and 28 tackles, 4 tackle breaks and 1 try assist, Creagh 40m and 19 tackles, no tackle breaks or try assists
Game 2: Bird 105m and 24 tackles, Creagh 73m and 26 tackles, 2 tackle breaks a piece
Game 3: Bird 85m and 37 tackles, 5 tackle breaks, Creagh 65m and 25 tackles, no tackle breaks
As you can see Bird puts in more work
Why not Hayne at Fullback or Wing where he is best?
Why not Kade Snowden and Tom L L?
July 12th 2011 @ 8:05am
Dingo Bob said | July 12th 2011 @ 8:05am | Report comment
Keep dreaming Scotty one day it might come true if you squeeze your eyes shut really tight and wish three times upon the morning star. But more likely not.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:15pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
Bob
My team has no hope of happening as politics will be involved and Ricky will pick his favs again like Pearce and Bird. Q’Land have a separate very professional selection group who seem to get it right every year.
Based on what we have seen, Stuart should never be aloud to select anyone.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:16pm
Steggz said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Care to think about Game 2? Or any of the games for that matter, for this side has done better than any other NSW side for a long time!
July 12th 2011 @ 8:57am
league guru said | July 12th 2011 @ 8:57am | Report comment
Your picking the side a bit early champ. I sure that NSW will have at least another couple of (best players in the world) emerge by then.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:17pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Guru
No doubt there will, but my point is NSW cannot select “handy” players in the crucial spine positions. Ennis, Perace, Soward and Mini are nothing more than good club players which is not good enough for Origin, especially in the spine.
July 12th 2011 @ 9:36am
M1tch said | July 12th 2011 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Tariq Sims is a player we need to pick and stick with, he will be a star!
July 12th 2011 @ 3:18pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Mitch
He is a star now. he will be good off the bench.
July 12th 2011 @ 10:03am
Steggz said | July 12th 2011 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Getting rid of Soward is ridiculous. It was hard for Soward to work wonders when QLD had so much ball (look at how Thurston and Lockyer struggled in Game 2 without the ball!) And Gidley works better as a bench impact. I’d put Farah at 9 with GIdley off the bench. That’s what you don’t have on the bench: a hooker/half impact player.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:20pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Steggz
If I can be brutally honest, Soward would not play ist grade at club level if he could not kick. Lockyer made him look sick.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:22pm
Steggz said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
Absolute hogwash. His defense has markedly improved in the last 18 months, and he’s growing in confidence to run at the line
July 12th 2011 @ 3:24pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Steggz
also
When you have Lewis in the team he can play any position in the backline if there is an injury.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:28pm
Steggz said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
A bench needs to have a front rower, a forward who can play either front or back row, a back rower who can cover the centres and a utility, who can especially play 6/7/9. Lewis is not a 7 or 9, he can cover centres and he might be sufficient to play 6 (he’s probably do a better job than Bird!), and therefore there’s a need for a player like Gidley to be on the bench.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:39pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Gids is the fittest player in the NRL and it is a waste to have a true 80 mins player on the bench. You are giving Qland an advantage as Cam Smith plays 80 mins.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:41pm
Steggz said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
But would Gidley have the same impact as an 80minute player? I think his impact in Game 2 was due to him playing off the bench, whereas he didn’t have such a major impact with 60 minutes in Game 3
July 12th 2011 @ 3:40pm
mushi said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
The bench – hell the starting 13 needs another prop.
But hey it worked so well last week…
July 15th 2011 @ 3:10pm
George G said | July 15th 2011 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
thats just like saying Nadal wouldnt be playing pro tennis if he didnt have his forehand or Kobe Bryant wouldnt be in the nba if he couldnt shoot.
July 12th 2011 @ 11:31am
Jimbo said | July 12th 2011 @ 11:31am | Report comment
I don’t think Gasnier has done much to deserve selection after this series. Also Steggz is correct in saying that it is unfair to judge Soward based upon the ball he had. I agree that Mitch Pearce shouldn’t be anywhere near a rep jersey again though.
Hayne was tried and failed at 5/8 for Parra. He has had success on the wing for NSW, so why not select him there and get rid of the over-rated Morris at the same time?
Gidley for mine has never put in a particularly compelling performance at origin (he was alright in 2010 I will admit), but he has a tendency to overplay his hand and steal the thunder of the halves. Farah is clearly the best hooker NSW have. I am sick of this nonsense about Ennis being an ‘origin player’ – he is just a grub.
Watmough can play 80 minutes, I would have him starting and Luke Lewis as the utility on the bench. Greg Bird has been solid at origin, and I can’t think why you would leave him out – especially for the powder puff Ben Creagh. Creagh’s best performance this year was in Game II for 73m and 26 tackles – hardly a huge justification to keep him in there.
Of course I would rather select players on form, and a lot can change between now and Origin 2012
July 12th 2011 @ 3:32pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
Jimbo
U made many comments that made sense but let yourself down with others.
Lewis is also an 80 min player and a much better player than Bird which leaves Bird out as he is too small for the back row.
I agree that Gids can be greedy but that can easily be coached, however I am a Farah fan and would not bag him.
Jimbo, I assure you than Creagh is crucial to how the Dragons go. he is very important to them in both attack and defence and they are not as good without him. His in my team.
Dont judge Hayne on previous years at 5/8 as he has never had good service from 7.
Sadly if Sandow plays 7 for Parra next year the same will probably happen again at club level but he would be great with Carney for NSW.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:34pm
Steggz said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
Except that Sandow is a Queenslander…
July 12th 2011 @ 3:36pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
Steggz
Fanks scoop….I was referring to club level with Sandow. READ!
July 12th 2011 @ 3:47pm
Steggz said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Apologies. But even so, with Roberts and Sandow coming in, is Hayne a cert to play 6 next year??
July 12th 2011 @ 4:08pm
Jimbo said | July 12th 2011 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
Scott, I will let the statistics do the talking re. Creagh and Bird:
Game 1: Bird 89m and 28 tackles, 4 tackle breaks and 1 try assist, Creagh 40m and 19 tackles, no tackle breaks or try assists
Game 2: Bird 105m and 24 tackles, Creagh 73m and 26 tackles, 2 tackle breaks a piece
Game 3: Bird 85m and 37 tackles, 5 tackle breaks, Creagh 65m and 25 tackles, no tackle breaks.
There is a big difference between club football and origin – Creagh is a good club man and nothing more. He has not performed at origin level. Hence, I would have Creagh missing out and not Bird.
And with Hayne, he has never performed at 5/8. We know he can perform at wing, and it gives the added bonus of not having to select Morris. So why not do that? Soward isn’t a Lockyer but he is a serviceable player, and doesn’t deserve to be dropped.
July 12th 2011 @ 1:13pm
Will Sinclair said | July 12th 2011 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
If Chris Lawrence is fit, he walks into the left centre position.
July 12th 2011 @ 3:35pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
Will
I have 2 major probs with Lawrence.
1. He has no idea with lateral defence and Hodges would make him look silly.
2.. He does not have a side step and has to rely on his speed.
Jennings has it all over him for god given skill and is just as fast.
July 12th 2011 @ 4:16pm
Charles said | July 12th 2011 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
The major problem with NSW losing as often as they do is their selection criteria, which to me is non-existent. Everyone has their own preference of players, including the coach, which leads to guesswork as to if they are right or wrong, it becomes a gamble.
They need to analyse with facts & figures first, based on experience and performance in club football and in Origin including their potential. In the assessment, allowance must be also considered, as to why the player may not have gone as well as expected. It may be he is playing out of position, carrying an injury, poor game structure etc. Once the facts are established and not before then, a team can start to take shape.
Utility players like Hayne, Giddley and Lewis are 80 minutes players. It is nonsense to suggest they should be on the bench when they are fit enough to be in the full game. Also it is so easy to discard a player, such as Hindmarsh is, when players like him, have still so much to give. We need to give every reason why a player should be in and not why they should be out.
This is a major reason why we keep losing. I will wait for next year before I make my assessment as to whom the team should be, but I have already pencilled out a few, stamped never to play Origin again. The general consensus is that Ennis and Pearce are not up to it, not because of lack of effort, but they are not Origin material, I agree with that.
July 12th 2011 @ 4:25pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Charles
It is not they are not up to it, it is just they are not in the same class as the Qland spine. My team is close.
July 12th 2011 @ 5:02pm
Epiquin said | July 12th 2011 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
This is the kind f thinking that has plagued NSW for the last 6 years. If we don’t get immediate success, go back to the drawing board!
I would make minimal changes to the 2011 squad. Mini was backup for Dugan after he was injured and he played brilliantly in game 2, however he was inconsistent game 3. Come 2012 He won’t be picked if Dugan or Stewart are match fit. I thought Stewart played well at Origin level, but he is immature. I have no gripe with him in the squad but would prefer Dugan.
Dumping Soward and Pearce would be a disaster. Part of Queensland’s dominance is not just the class of Lockyer and Thurston, it is also the fact that they have so much experience playing along side each other. Keep Soward and Pearce for 2011.
History shows its never a good idea to play players out of position at origin level with few exceptions. Hayne should not be 5/8.
I think there is room for indris in the side in the side, however.
I don’t think there is anyone in NSW is equal to or greater than the key QLD team. Thats why its important to keep the team together. The best players are already there, they just need time to gel as a unified front.
July 12th 2011 @ 6:07pm
mushi said | July 12th 2011 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
it is also because we actually have a forward pack – this flacid one prop pack will have the same results as the last one.
July 12th 2011 @ 6:34pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
Ep
The fact that Mini was even a consideration is a problem in itself. He should never have been there but his effort in game 2 was good although he never at any stage looked like making a break. Ep, trust me I watch him 3 times every week and I like the guy but he is way past it.
NSW have has 6 years to gel how much longer do you want?
It will make no difference how long Sowie and Mitch P have they just are not in the same class as Thurston and Slater but Hayne and Carney are in that class and that is where NSW must start.
They must have a class base in the spine.
You are incorrect to say the best players are already there.
Ennis, Soward, Pearce and Mini was the last spine. plllllease!
July 12th 2011 @ 9:57pm
Epiquin said | July 12th 2011 @ 9:57pm | Report comment
I agree that mini is past it, he wont be chosen again.
You said the squad has had 6 years to gel but I don’t see how since the team has changed very drastically from season to season, and even from game to game. I think I AM correct in saying pearce and soward are the best guys for the job, same as dugan, I have no problem with Farrah, but I like the way Ennis gets under the Maroon’s skin
July 12th 2011 @ 5:23pm
Charles said | July 12th 2011 @ 5:23pm | Report comment
Missing the point Scott, we all think we have the answers! Let’s take the spine for example! How many changes have we made overall, and we are nowhere looking to get it right. In hindsight, it may have been better to use say, Giddley and Hornby in the halves combination? Experience in Origin, the brains to do the job and the energy and passion to get it done!
Take now the example of Soward. Potentially he could be one of the best 5/8 going, with time. He has been knocking on the door of Origin; many experts were calling for his inclusion, and he got his chance. In all honesty, he did not play bad, but he did not excel. This could be contributed to the game itself; NSW were not in it. So the question is, do we keep recycling players or do we choose by facts and not emotion?
I agree with Epiquin, in trying to keep players together but you all so have to recognise if they have the ability to remain in Origin. Pearce and Ennis are not up to it in my view, Soward I think perhaps! Carney could easily take the place of Pearce and do a better job, simply because he can play Origin!
July 12th 2011 @ 6:37pm
ScottWoodward.me said | July 12th 2011 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
Charles
I can assure you Mal Meninga would rather Soward at 5/8 than Hayne. In racehorse terms Hayne is a group 1 performer and Soward would be listed class.