Phil Gould’s argument nothing but a sham
Columnist By Geoff Lemon, 13 Jul 2011 Geoff Lemon is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- NRL, Phil Gould, Rugby League, Sydney Morning Herald
187 Have your say
In Sunday’s Sydney Morning Herald, NRL big man Phil Gould mounted his case for poker machines. It was one of the most bungled attempts at assembling an argument that you’ll ever see, like stapling a bunch of fish together and calling it a mermaid.
The drop of revenue that would come with tighter controls on players, he said, would lead to a dramatic end-game just a few shades shy of the apocalypse.
Reforms “will undoubtedly lead to the closing of many clubs, the loss of thousands of jobs in the club industry, the loss of revenue and jobs for those businesses who trade with the club industry and the loss of funding for community programs and junior sports.”
Within five paragraphs he upgraded the job loss to “tens of thousands”. That’s some spike.
It’s worth noting that words like ‘undoubtedly’ when predicting the future are notoriously risky. Even the Magic 8 Ball just said “All signs point to yes.”
Then Gould pulled out the ultimate scare card: “I’m sure the NRL will survive. A few of the Sydney-based clubs might not be so lucky. Your favourite team could be the one to disappear.”
Thing is, it sounded like Gould was singing from a very familiar hymn sheet.
The closer you looked, the more closely his article resembled a neat list of the arguments made by Clubs Australia in their campaign against the new laws.
If you need reminding, Clubs Australia is the innocuous-sounding body representing the nation’s poker machine venues. Their vested interest is absolute.
It did make you wonder what Gould’s relationship with Clubs Australia, or with an individual club, might be.
Then there it was. “I have been involved in the club industry all my working life. I worked directly in the poker machine industry for 12 years.”
Now, I don’t know anything about Gould’s current financial affairs. But when a guy starts talking about “poker machine investment as buying relaxation time or as part of a social entertainment option to share with friends,” you can only assume that he’s still on the industry teat somewhere along the line.
The staggering thing, for an article in a reputable paper, was Gould’s willingness to rely solely on figures from Clubs Australia.
“Even the federal government admits these reforms will reduce expenditure on poker machines by some 30 per cent – Clubs Australia suggests the real figure will be somewhere between 40 per cent and 50 per cent,” he said
And then, “To put all this in perspective, Clubs Australia maintains that there are about 60,000 problem gamblers in Australia and 5 million individuals who play the pokies annually.”
In contrast, the Productivity Commission – an independent, non-party organisation – estimated there were up to 160,000 problem gamblers, and 350,000 at-risk gamblers.
But, we should take the word of the group whose sole vested interest is in playing down those numbers, not the word of an independent body, and not the word of the government pushing for change?
Not to mention that at no point do we hear where the Clubs Australia numbers might come from, and at no point is any genuine evidence invoked.
Gould gives the perfect example in attacking comments by Labor Minister Jenny Macklin.
“The NRL is being funded by ‘family misery’ and ‘pokie addicts.’ What a statement! I don’t need to point out the inaccuracies and totally misinformed nature of these outlandish assertions.”
Amazing argument, Phil. You just have to say that something is not true, and it magically becomes so. Using lots of adjectives seals the deal.
Now for my next trick, I’ll make my life savings disappear.
Unfortunately for Gould, the Productivity Commission estimates that 40 percent of all pokies revenue is lost by problem gamblers. If the NRL is as dependent on clubs as he claims, then mathematically Macklin’s assertion adds up.
The “poorly researched reforms” are based on intensive research by specialists in the field. Naturally, a retired rugby league player who hasn’t even read the report is entirely qualified to dismiss it entirely.
I mean, Andrew Bolt knows more than a globe’s worth of climate scientists, so that’s just standard procedure.
“The problem of this proposed legislation,” said an outraged Gould, “is that it treats every potential poker machine player as a ‘problem gambler’.”
Phil, every potential poker machine player is a potential problem gambler. Every road user is a potential road toll statistic. Hence helmets, seatbelts, speed limits. It’s described in the medical profession as a prophylactic measure.
Just as with warnings and plain packaging on cigarette boxes, it’s not really designed to stop smokers from smoking. They’ve already cast their vote.
It’s designed to stop new smokers from being created.
“The people of Australia need to understand what is going on here,” said Gould in his closing flourish. “We all know the Gillard government is desperate and out of control.”
So, we need to understand what we all already know. Is that right, Phil?
There is no better indication of a rhetorical impostor than phrases like “we all know.” It’s an indicator of no research and no expertise, the dressing up of a personal prejudice with the air of mass acceptance.
This was not an independent article reflecting a considered opinion. It was a Clubs Australia press release with a relevant personality’s name pencilled in at the top.
The Sydney Morning Herald should be embarrassed to have run it.
Follow Geoff Lemon on Twitter: @GeoffLemonSport
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- NRL, Phil Gould, Rugby League, Sydney Morning Herald
July 13th 2011 @ 5:28am
Droppa said | July 13th 2011 @ 5:28am | Report comment
I dont drink ,smoke or gamble.
The NSW Clubs have nothing for me but heres my tip on the pokies
Look at the top of the machine & theres a sighn that says “your chance of winning top prize is more than a million to one”
& what do you get for knocking off that million to one shot ?
$90
But you can still bet your last cent …lolol
July 14th 2011 @ 6:38am
oikee said | July 14th 2011 @ 6:38am | Report comment
No, i dont gamble alot, i cant say i dont gamble. Lotto tickets are gambling. If this government really wants to push the issue, then the Melbourne cup or any other horse race has to be banned from tv. Simple as that, no questions asked. They promote gambling as a Australian institution every year and make sure a nation stops to have a flutter.
If the government is serious about this, the Melbourne cup day, or any other raceday on tv should be banned, outlawed and put in the bin. Now, lets see who is going to start this arguement and push this barrow.
If it is not mentioned or brought up as a legitement arguement, then this pokie issue has to be dropped, because i can tell everyone right here and now, more people would be influinced by the Melbourne cup than pokie machines.
If you want to get to the heart of the problem, you need to know where the heart lives.
Even the kids at school stop and are being prepped for a life of gambling, come-on. Are we all that ignorant.
July 14th 2011 @ 6:49am
oikee said | July 14th 2011 @ 6:49am | Report comment
Until this government has the guts to really put a end to this countries gambling habits and slaps the Melbourne cup as a main problem area, this whole issue is nothing short of a joke, should be laughed at and not taken seriously. I dont, and for schools to stop and watch a horse race because it is part of our culture, then our culture needs to change. Now, who is going to push this barrow. I want to know and i want to see action, until then, back off and dont bring up the pokie issue again, because it will fall on deaf ears.
July 14th 2011 @ 9:44am
simon said | July 14th 2011 @ 9:44am | Report comment
I think there is a big difference between having the Melbourne cup PLUS pokies and other legalised betting. Without the later two the problem would be less than half. Maybe there does need to be a shake up of the Melbourne Cup, but let’s start with what’s ruining thousands of families.
The argument put forward that without pokies and legalised betting, it would just push the problem elsewhere or off-shore or into illegal avenues, misses the point. It is a weak argument simply to protect the revenue made from pokies and legalised betting.
There is no doubt that pokies and legalised betting around the football codes actually promotes problem gambling to many who would not have got started in the first place without it.
July 14th 2011 @ 12:05pm
oikee said | July 14th 2011 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
So your saying that showing the Melbourne cup in schools to kids under the age of 15 and subjecting them to a horse race that has gambling is not a problem at the heart of our kids going on to become adults turning up on cup day to then be able to gamble and drink and/or whatever else is not looking at the bigger picture.
Mate, it would be the first place i looked at solving the gambling problem, at a young age, not when we are adults and can make our own choices.
No, it is a cop-out and we all know it. The government wont act because the sport is big bussiness, so it will be brushed, and that is why trying to make pokies a issue will never cut it with me.
July 14th 2011 @ 11:33pm
mick said | July 14th 2011 @ 11:33pm | Report comment
I think it is a bit of a stretch to compare the Melbourne cup and pokies. Pokies are significantly more evil and hence this policy can be justified whilst still maintaining the Melbourne cup go on. Pokies by their nature just lend themselves to way more destruction – they are easily accessible, some clubs/casinos being open 24/7, hundreds of little bets per hour, etc. It is just simply far easier to lose track of your finances on the pokies than it is a one off horse bet that comes round once a year.
July 16th 2011 @ 2:05pm
Dean - Surry Hills said | July 16th 2011 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
OK Roarers – I’m back from a stint in the bush, so my apologies for not being online over the past week.
Who wants to join me in a night at Panthers Leagues Club ????????????
Bring $50 dollars with you. $40 will be for food and beverages. $10 will be for the pokies.
I need about 500 people to turn up on a Saturday night to help me in making a statement.
We can occupy every single poker machine, and play 1 cent per spin, and press the button about once per minute.
The $10 should last most of the night, and it will severely hamper the clubs revenue.
Who knows – you might even win $5.
Post a reply here – and if I get a few takers, then I will set up a website to organise numbers, times, and tactics.
July 13th 2011 @ 7:01am
4andahalf said | July 13th 2011 @ 7:01am | Report comment
His latest article was significantly less alarmist than his efforts on June 5th, when he declared the pokie reforms were going to destroy the game altogether.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/07/08/the-game-the-clubs-and-the-pokies/1
July 13th 2011 @ 7:05am
Ksi said | July 13th 2011 @ 7:05am | Report comment
Great article. Well said. If only the same amount of people who read Goulds article read this one.
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July 13th 2011 @ 7:29am
Matthew Skellett said | July 13th 2011 @ 7:29am | Report comment
Mr Gould has said a lot of intelligent things , but covering for the Clubs Lobby who are riding on the backs of problem gamblers (who want to keep the gamblers having a problem) is just plain dumb . I don’t know how he lives with himself for that one !
July 13th 2011 @ 8:00am
Dingo Bob said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Of course he is the Clubs mouthpiece. Have you seen how many Pokies Panthers have in their club.
July 13th 2011 @ 8:13am
mushi said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Great article.
I cringe at the club handed manner in which Phil Gould tackles any topic that isn’t on field performance in rugby league.
When he speaks about rugby league being played or coached he can be insightful, intelligent and convincing. But any topic that strays from that he is an embarrassingly inept at forming an argument that even holds water against the most cursory examination. Even his ramblings on the administration of the game are typically self defeating strings of nonsense that I’d have been embarrassed to hand in as a year ten assignment.
It is also somewhat disingenuous and, in the view of many, unethical to “talk your own book” in investment circles. Which is presenting an argument you claim to be objective and factual but really it is just designed to suit your own selfish purposes at the cost of others.
July 13th 2011 @ 8:18am
David said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Lemon, whilst it’s ok for the Gillard Govt to teach our kids doomsday scenarios in school about climate science you criticise others when the talk in the sane tongue. Remove the left bias from your reporting and you will become a true journo. David
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July 13th 2011 @ 9:07am
League_Coach101 said | July 13th 2011 @ 9:07am | Report comment
David – familiar with the Science Curriculum in each State are you?
” doomsday scenarios in school about climate science.”
Seriously – look into it yourself – don’t just believe what the Daily Telegraph tells you
July 13th 2011 @ 11:29am
soapit said | July 13th 2011 @ 11:29am | Report comment
david, global warming has been taught in schools for a long long time before labours latest period in power.
July 13th 2011 @ 1:11pm
3zebras said | July 13th 2011 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
You understand that this opinion piece is not actually about climate science or education don’t you? That the author’s opinions on these are not at all covered, being completely irrelevant to the matter at hand?
Understanding that then, you’re committing a logical fallacy of your own, ignoratio elenchi, or more specifically, a red herring.
And there’s that other logical fallacy of yours too, ad hominem, accusing the author of some kind of “left” bias and of not being a “true journo,” not that you provide any evidence of either claim.
All this simply because you apparently don’t agree with him, but cannot actually provide any actual substance, any argument of your own.
Given how similar your approaches are, you should probably collaborate with Gould.
July 13th 2011 @ 8:20am
Westius said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Being rugby league’s deepest thinker is a little like topping maths in society – doesn’t mean you’re actually smart. Very disappointing from Gould but unsurprising.
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July 13th 2011 @ 8:47am
Brett McKay said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:47am | Report comment
this my early vote for Comment of the Week, nice one Westy…
July 13th 2011 @ 11:20am
Geoff Lemon said | July 13th 2011 @ 11:20am | Report comment
I’ll second that, B-Mc.
July 13th 2011 @ 1:56pm
MyGeneration said | July 13th 2011 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Funny, I thought it was the kind of snide generalisation you rightly pillory Gus for, Geoff. Except snider, and more general.
July 13th 2011 @ 3:16pm
Geoff Lemon said | July 13th 2011 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
MG, I don’t think anyone could accuse Brett McKay of being anti any kind of rugby. Doesn’t mean he can’t enjoy a well-made smartarse remark.
July 13th 2011 @ 3:46pm
MyGeneration said | July 13th 2011 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Wasn’t knocking Brett for it, Geoff. Just thought your secondment was curious, as the original comment was exactly the kind of smartarsery Gus is good at, and not particularly in keeping with the tone of your article. And your mermaid line is much better constructed.
July 13th 2011 @ 3:57pm
Geoff Lemon said | July 13th 2011 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Thanks, MG, have to admit I enjoyed that line too. In this case, just meant that I wasn’t about having a go at league, which some other commenters seem to think is the case. Apparently criticising Gus is just not the done thing.
July 13th 2011 @ 4:18pm
Brett McKay said | July 13th 2011 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
and MyGen, to clarify, it was actually the bit about topping maths in society that earned my vote….
July 13th 2011 @ 4:23pm
JVGO said | July 13th 2011 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
The whole focus of this argument is having a go at league. It is completely out of perspective. There are maybe 10 Leagues clubs in NSW, but hundreds of other clubs, RSL’s, bowling clubs, sports clubs, trade Union Clubs etc. The small clubs are the ones most likely to disappear. The large Leagues clubs will probably benefit from their demise. Maybe the NRL will benefit. It is just a classic wowserathon run by a Tasmanian wowser. This debate has been going on for 200 years in NSW and the wowsers always lose. Almost every post in this debate demonises the Club industry in NSW. Jenny Macklin’s statement is actually quite ridiculous and completely out of touch. Brett Mackay doesn’t want to be seen as an ‘apologist’ for the club industry. Why Brett? Because it is evil? Because you wouldn’t want to be seen as working class? Membership of Souths Juniors entitles you to much more than a tilt at the pokies, Gyms, swimming pool, restaurants, Souths traditiionally ran it’s own vacation facility for members, it supports the local junior Football. What do the local publicans provide for patrons with their profits from the pokies. From the point of view of Southern wowsers this may all appear obvious, but it is a complete electoral loser, just handing more votes to the ‘mad monk’. We have a Victorian PM who has no idea with an approval rating of 27%. You guys need to get into the real world and stop digging huge holes for yourselves. This why you have all been ruled by NSW since 1973.
July 13th 2011 @ 8:02pm
Dingo said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
@ JVGO, not sure if you are serious about being “ruled by NSW since 1973″.
Do the names, Fraser (Vic), Hawke (Vic) and Rudd (Qld) ring a bell?
Btw, how are the pools, gyms, etc funded? Profits from pokies by chance?
July 13th 2011 @ 8:39pm
JVGO said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
3 most effective politicians of the last 40 years, Gough Whitlam (NSW), Paul Keating (NSW) (Hawke was from WA), John Howard (NSW).
3 most ineffecftual politicians of the last 40 years. Malcolm Fraser (Vic), Andrew Peacock (Vic), Julia gillard (Vic).
Yes, exactly, obviously the gyms etc for the members are subsidised by the pokies. What do the pokies at Star City or in Pubs subsidise? Air fares for the high rollers from Hong Kong? Speed boats for pub owners?
July 14th 2011 @ 8:05pm
Dingo said | July 14th 2011 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
Sorry to disagree but Hawke was from South Australia, but held the seat of Wills in VICTORIA, during his political career.
Gough Whitlam effective? ROFLMAO JVGO
July 13th 2011 @ 8:23am
Hansie said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Gould’s article was self-serving rubbish. He can be observant about happenings on the field, but I doubt he’s the man for curing society’s ills.
July 13th 2011 @ 8:33am
Will Sinclair said | July 13th 2011 @ 8:33am | Report comment
What a great piece.
You’re right when you say that the SMH should be ashamed to run such a piece (although it was clearly marked as an opinion piece, and they run articles by individuals with a vested interest in the subject just about every day).
Pokies are shameful, and we should be reducing our addiction to them, not increasing it.