Wallabies fans have very short memories
Roar Rookie By wre01, 12 Aug 2011 wre01 is a Roar Rookie
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Robbie Deans is the best rugby coach on the planet. You would never know it after the whinging and whining since the Samoa Test, but Deans is the right guy to take us to the 2011 World Cup.
Any objective rugby person knows that. It’s just that Aussie sporting supporters are a pretty impatient and emotional breed with very short memories.
Let’s start by asking the obvious questions. What is wrong with these players? How can you get rolled by England and then put 60 points on France in Paris the next week? How many can spell ‘consistency’.
With the exception of Horwill, Genia and Ioane, the form, attitude and application from the Wallabies this season (and last) has been awful. You would never guess a RWC was one month away.
Giteau’s has been about ‘me me me’ for the last 12 months. Cooper looked like he had been listening to Khoder Nasser’s BS and completely lost the plot in Auckland. O’Connor, well I’ll tell you what I like about him- absolutely nothing. He looks to be a player who will suit himself first and foremost whether in his application to kicking duties, contract negotiations or ridiculous David Bowie hair.
And then there is Elsom. Can it really be said that Deans should be responsible for Elsom not putting his hand up and saying, “I’m just not up to it.”
Is it really Dean’s fault Cooper is prone to brain snaps and has the maturity of a 25 test player rather than a 95 Test player like Carter? Matt Giteau has tickets on himself and Deans didn’t attach them. Which brings me to my next point.
What came before Deans? Remember Eddie Jones? He attached a big fat wad (of tickets) to Giteau. He also bored us to death with comments like, “73 percent of fifth phase ball goes through the 10/12 channel 19 percnt of the time.” What did Eddie win? Nothing.
The Bledisloe has been lost for nine years. Deans has lost it for a third of that time after starting from scratch and rebuilding after the debacle in 2007 overseen by Connolly, a man who was more conservative with his selections than Sarah Palin is with her money box.
Deans has made the tough calls in the past. He dropped Smith for Pocock when the decision was line ball. He’s dropped Sharpey twice. Sharpe is good 90 percent of the time, the other 10 percent he messes about like a disabled child employee at Maccas.
He’s also given Beale a shot at 15, I have my doubts about this call but Deans has backed him and the back three to throw caution to the wind. Better than boring right?
Yes, he has made a mistake with Elsom but any move to sack him one month before a RWC would be doing a Gillard on Rudd. Elsom should fall on his sword if he isn’t quite right.
If he doesn’t and Australia are knocked out in the quarters, his reputation will be in tatters. Maybe that decision is a matter for better men than you and I. And I have no doubt Rocky is one of them.
Let’s not forget what Deans has done for Aussie rugby. With a miniscule playing pool (compared to the other big four unions) we are more than competing. It isn’t a coincidence that Queensland won a Super 15 title while Deans was Wallabies coach.
McKenzie certainly didn’t pull off that success at NSW or Stade Francais, at the time the best resourced club in Europe. Deans has got talents like Genia, Cooper, Ioane Beale and Mitchell playing what is in front of them. They are hitting the ball at pace but also letting the ball do the work. It’s called the basics. When the Wallabies get it right they are unstoppable (think France last year).
It’s time to ask more questions of the players now. Deans is the man for the job. But are Cooper and co?
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August 12th 2011 @ 2:58am
Sportym said | August 12th 2011 @ 2:58am | Report comment
“How can you get rolled by England and then put 60 points on France in Paris the next week? How many can spell ‘consistency’.”
To be fair, thats got nothing to do with the Wallabies, that is the Enigma known as the French team. Good chance the following weekend they would have beaten the All Blacks.
Robbie Deans is the Best proven Coach at Super Rugby level. He has yet to deliver at test level. Do not forget he was part of the AB coaching staff 2003. Was it the 2003 Cattles fault too? It feels the wallabies are going down the same path as the 2003 ABS. Do not forget the Wallabies beat the ABs in 2003 and just lost to a Very good English side under Eddie Jones. Deans is yet to beat Eddie Jones win %.
August 12th 2011 @ 3:12am
Will said | August 12th 2011 @ 3:12am | Report comment
Sportym
Fair point with the French but what about losing to Scotland and Munster right after pasteing England in 2009? What about beating NZ in Hong Kong and scraping past the Welsh in Cardiff the week later then losing to the English before hammering France? In my opinion, generation Y in that side get too ahead of themselves too often.
The other thing to remember though is Eddie had Gregan and Larkham playing 100 odd tests in 2003 as well as huge experience to call on in Tuquiri, Rogers, Sailor, Burke, Cannon, Paul, Harrison and Smith. Many had won a RWC and a British Lions series.
Eddie was the worse thing to happen to Australian rugby- took all the instinct and flair out of the game and lost a heap of momentum between 2004 and 2006. Undid all the good work between 1999 and 2003.
The Wallabies aren’t heading down the road the 2003 All Blacks went down- the 2003 All Blacks won all but two tests in 2 years.
August 12th 2011 @ 5:54am
Jerry said | August 12th 2011 @ 5:54am | Report comment
“Good chance the following weekend they would have beaten the All Blacks.”
Nah, the match wasn’t important enough. The buggers will wait till a WC knockout match….
August 12th 2011 @ 6:29am
Dave said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:29am | Report comment
This is why I’m happy France and NZ are in the same pool. If they jump up and beat us then we can still make the quarters. If we beat them then some other poor sods can cop them in the 1/4 final, e.g. England.
August 12th 2011 @ 3:15am
Johnno said | August 12th 2011 @ 3:15am | Report comment
How is he the right man for the job based on some of his selections he is the wrong man for the job.
Rugby is different to cricket, it is a fast game that lasts 80 minutes. Captiancy is more important in test cricket for multiple reasons than rugby,.
Horwill has captained most of year at reds. give him the job.
August 12th 2011 @ 6:31am
Dave said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:31am | Report comment
Not questioning your criticism of Deans but where the hell did cricket come into this?
August 12th 2011 @ 11:43am
kiwidi said | August 12th 2011 @ 11:43am | Report comment
do you think deans doesn’t know difference between cricket and rugby
August 12th 2011 @ 11:55am
The Bush said | August 12th 2011 @ 11:55am | Report comment
I’m starting to wonder if Deans knows anything at all…
August 12th 2011 @ 6:25am
Darwin Stubby said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:25am | Report comment
Thanks for the rant Mrs Deans
August 12th 2011 @ 6:34am
Red Rooster said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:34am | Report comment
Yeah i am with you Darwin – I thought either Robbie was bored in SA or his Mother was unhappy with the spin of late.
I actually thought the article was tongue in cheek.
wre01 – you are clearly not close to the game in any capacity as any remote contact with the players at the professional level would reveal exactly what is and isn’t going on – try doing some research before you try you hand at a comment piece
August 12th 2011 @ 8:32am
M.O.C. said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Damn, DS, you stole my line…the author must be from Canterbury though.
August 12th 2011 @ 6:50pm
Will said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
Red Rooster/ MOC
I’m not from Canterbury or Robbie Deans in disguise. I am, however, sitting in London away from the Australian media hype that inevitably whips up a frenzy of coach hate to sell papers without taking an objective look at things. It’s pretty easy to sell papers to arm chair critics with little knowledge of the game.
The fact of the matter is that Deans has, from the ashes of 2007, taken the youngest side in Wallaby history and put 31 points on the Boks in Bloemfontein in 40 minutes. He’s beaten the AB’s once and taken them very close on several other occasions. What they did to France in Paris caused a huge swell of admiration for how they played the game of rugby in the northern hemisphere (something unheard of before under Connolly, Jones and even McQueen).
The point of this article was that it is obvious the players, when they put the coacking staff’s plans into practice, can be world beaters but it is up to Elsom and Cooper to pull their fingers out and steady the ship. If you, Mr Red Rooster, are close to the players and understand “what is and isn’t going on” please enlighten us? From where I stand, I see a bunch of talented kids that are mentally soft and distracted by the feminisation of society- tv adds, high profile girlfriends, hair styles and contract negotiantions where a man’s word doesn’t mean anything anymore…
August 12th 2011 @ 6:28am
Who Needs Melon said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:28am | Report comment
Unlike player and captain selections, it IS too late to change coach now. But, as I wrote under a different post yesterday and as you alluded to, Deans seems more of a ‘talent developer’ than anything else – taking young blokes and working with them over time to turn them into better players. He doesn’t seem like a powerful motivational communicator in the style perhaps of Alan Jones. And I have neither seen nor heard him or anyone else describe any astute tactics taken into a game.
A ‘talent developer’ style might be great as coach of a club team (like the Crusaders) where you get to work continually with guys for weeks and months at a time and over a period of years. But it is not so useful a trait if you are (only) coach of a national side.
August 12th 2011 @ 9:26am
Behind Enemy Lines said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Well put
August 12th 2011 @ 6:33am
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:33am | Report comment
wre01,
I liked a lot of what you said.
However, the natives will be restless & agitated when they read your piece…..!
August 12th 2011 @ 6:33am
Johnny-boy said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Is that you Greco Roman ? Surely
August 12th 2011 @ 11:57am
The Bush said | August 12th 2011 @ 11:57am | Report comment
My first thought is that it’s a gee up too…
August 12th 2011 @ 6:37am
Red Rooster said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:37am | Report comment
By the way if Deans was so instrumental at getting the Reds to win (85% success this season) then why has he not transferred it to the test team in the last 4 years – struggling with you logic old matey
August 12th 2011 @ 8:18am
johnny-boy said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:18am | Report comment
10 out of 10 RedR. Deans responsible for Reds success. That deserves a prize at the local esteddford under comedy. No other entrants would get close, Someone else mentioned recently that Deans appears to be shunning ready and roaring to go Reds players so McKenzie doesnt get too much credit. There appears to be more than a grain of truth to that. It looks more like a silo full really
August 12th 2011 @ 8:42am
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:42am | Report comment
“Deans is shunning ready & raring to go Reds players so McKenzie doesn’t get too much credit”.
Where do you guys get this crap?
In this weekend’s test there are 5 Reds in the starting XV – Ioane, Cooper, Genia, Higginbotham & Horwill, while the Fa’ingaa twins, Simmons & Samo are on the bench. Slipper is injured.
Saia Faingaa & Samo are probably lucky to be there anyway. Samo’s 35 now, & at best a backup. Saia looks like me – an overweight 50s something year old. Daley & Robinson aren’t good enough to be in the 22. Davies was exposed against Samoa.
You guys are kidding, right? Do you think this through before you post, or is it irritating to let logic interfere with prejudice (you know, we don’t like Deans & that’s all that matters)…..???
August 12th 2011 @ 11:07am
Cattledog said | August 12th 2011 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Sheek, you need to articulate concisely exactly what Deans has done to endear himself to the rugby public. I have done my best to try and remain positive toward him but it is getting harder and harder. I agree it’s too late to change the coach but it’s not too late to change the captainsy.
Tell me why, when they were well and truly beaten, was Ant Faainga still sitting on the bench come full time last week? I also accept that a lot of the problems could perhaps stem from the forward coach, Jim Williams who for my mind, and having known him when he was making cameo appearances for local Army sides years ago, I don’t believe is up to the task.
At any rate, the troops are restless and a win against the Springboks Sunday morning and an excellent showing in two weeks against the ABs is required if we are to have any hope come October.
August 12th 2011 @ 1:58pm
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Cattledog,
I’m also at a loss with some of Deans decisions, but while 98% of the rest of Aussie fans are putting the boot into him, there’s no need for me to join the fray.
Besides, Mark Twain famously said that if you find your opinion to be with the majority, perhaps it’s time to reassess your position!
Look, there’s no law that says a coach must use all his bench. Perhaps Deans believed A.Faingaa couldn’t add value to the team in the later stages of the match. It’s his call. Roarers are simply too reactive to everything.
If a particular decision doesn’t fit our own view, then somehow it must be wrong. Who the hell says any Roarer know what they’re talking about!!!
Yeah, I’m not sure either if Jim Williams is the man to coach the forwards. He’s an ex-centre come back rower. I would imagine his intuitive understanding of the scrum is not at the level that perhaps it should be. Put it this way, he’s not an Alec Evans.
If deans gets the Wallabies to the world cup final, win or loss, that will be his crowning achievement. We’re ranked no.2 now. I would be shocked if we can knock the ABs off in the final.
But of course, once you make the final, you have a one in two chance of winning it, don’t you? Of course, there might be a lot of Roarers who might have to eat humble pie, & apologise to Deans if he gets the Wallabies up to win the world cup!!!!!
August 12th 2011 @ 2:20pm
Cattledog said | August 12th 2011 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Fair reply, Sheek. Whilst I agree it’s up to a coach to decide on the use of his bench, I would submit that:
1. Faainga knows Cooper’s game and perhaps could have brought some composure to the situation.
2. Hasn’t been afforded any opportunity really to show his form from the S15 season.
3. I believe we wouldn’t have lost anything by replacing McCabe at about the 60 min mark.
I also know that every loss to the ABs puts us one step closer to a win. That’s why I said an ‘excellent showing’ rather than a win against the ABs was required in a fortnight. Would show we are building but not quite there yet.
Of course, another poor showing in either of these next two games will, IMHO, sound the death knell for this team for the RWC.
August 12th 2011 @ 12:02pm
The Bush said | August 12th 2011 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
sheek,
I’m generally in agreeance with you, but:
1. “Daley & Robinson aren’t good enough to be in the 22″ – Daley is probably too young, but will come good. What is annoying, whether you defend him as a possible selection possibility, is that meanwhile Deans insists on playing the props he does select on the wrong side of the scrum!
Robinson may not be good enough, but how would you know – he’s had about two (2) seconds of game time. Mot point anyway, as people are usually in agreement that Pocock is the first player selected.
2. “Samo’s 35 now, & at best a backup.” So instead we play Higgers out of position, when Samo has been playing at No8 all season? It is this lack of logic that gets me…
August 12th 2011 @ 2:08pm
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Bush,
I should have qualified, Daley & Robinson aren’t good enough to be in the 22….. at this point in time.
I agree Daley is young & has time on his side. Robinson is a stout-hearted super rugby player, but the step-up to test rugby might be a bit too much for him. There are plenty of guys running around who are good players at super rugby level, but find the step-up to test rugby beyond them.
There is no dishonour in this. It’s simply a fact of life.
Re Higginbotham/Samo, well, when Eddie Jones first took over the Brumbies (in 1998/99), it suited him to continue playing Larkham at fullback, while MacQueen picked him at flyhalf, without the benefit of him playing there during super rugby.
The coach always has the prerogative to play a player in the position he believes will best benefit the team. And to pick the player he believes will provide the greatest dividend.
The thing about Higginbotham I believe, is that he can play 6 & 8 equally well. Furthermore, I reckon most people would agree that he is far more dynamic than Samo, & will be even more so, with one-two games at 8 under his belt.
Samo is a wonderful rugby player enjoying a marvellous “Indian summer”. But in all seriousness, he doesn’t provide the medium term answer to the Wallabies at no.8.
August 12th 2011 @ 2:28pm
formeropenside said | August 12th 2011 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
You dont need medium term, you needed 5-8 Tests until the RWC final out of him, and that was that.
Look, I think – and hope – that Beau Robinson will be overtaken by Gill next season for the Reds, but that does not change the fact he is presently the second best openside option in the country. If Pocock goes down at the RWC in round one, what happens? If we sub him out, he cant come back.
So you’d think it would have handled better.
August 12th 2011 @ 2:36pm
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
FOS,
That’s a fair point – Robinson is the cover for Pocock, & I guess on that score he will be selected in the world cup squad, or should be. And yes, perhaps his inclusion to this point should have been handled better.
i also agree Gill is a real beauty, & it’s a shame that the 2011 world cup is too soon for him.
August 12th 2011 @ 3:13pm
Cattledog said | August 12th 2011 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
Daley is a little older than Slipper. Rather than Slipper being on the bench for Saturday fortnight, he may well partner Daley for the Ba Ba’s on the Friday night. Will be an interesting game, I think.
August 12th 2011 @ 6:49am
Ash said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:49am | Report comment
I admire Deans coaching record before the Wallabies, but he is the wrong man for the job and it is starting to show.
1 – He’s not an Aussie and can’t motivate the team to beat the ABs enough. The depth the team has now there are no excuses. Their attitude was poor last weekend.
2 – He picks out of form player and selects people out of position.
3 – Game plan and lack of attacking options – Quade was left with no inside options and forwards in the backline.
4 – Ewan McKenzie is the man for the job. It needs to be an Aussie.
I watched the Rugby Club last night and Rod Kafer showed how bad Quade was let down with the options on attack. The ABs could read what was going on because everything was one dimensional.
August 12th 2011 @ 8:26am
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Ash,
Most people who make it to the top of their profession or game, are self-driven & highly motivated. So why does Deans need to motivate the Wallabies to beat the All Blacks, or anyone else???
If the players themselves don’t want to win badly enough, then McKenzie won’t be able to help them either…..
Having a Kiwi-born coach of the Wallabies ought to be an advantage to us Aussies. The average Kiwi has an intuitively keener understanding of rugby union than the average Aussie. For example, the ABs have won close to 80% of tests against the Wallabies.
Don’t blame Deans for Cooper’s mistakes last Saturday. Cooper struggled to find a way out of having his time to think & space to move, severely reduced by the ABs frenetic defence. Every opposition team understands that shutting down Cooper is the key to shutting down the Wallabies.
Why do so many Aussies have this bizarre idea that Cooper should be left alone to roam free??? This is test rugby!
Cooper will have to learn how to shake free of close marking, or slow/poor delivery of ball. It’s all part of his learning curve…..
August 12th 2011 @ 9:16am
johnny-boy said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:16am | Report comment
What’s the point of having Deans as coach then Sheek ….carry the water bottles ?
August 12th 2011 @ 9:34am
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Johnny-boy,
There’s a stack of Wallabies players & coaches pre-1980 who hardly won anything.
But were they failures? I doubt it, they were still the best this country could summon at the time. Anyone who reaches the top of their sport is a champion of sorts. Some individuals back then were exceptional.
If they ever gave it any thought, they’re probably thankful they don’t have to put up with frenzied, & often, totally un-objective scrutiny we see displayed these days on Aussie media & blogs.
August 12th 2011 @ 10:53am
EP - Rugbywits said | August 12th 2011 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Its true Sheek, the scrutiny and the unobjectivity on the interwebs and even mainstream media is in some ways very disrespectful and also swings wildly.
The flip side is it brings supporters together and gives people a place to be a supporter on days besides games day. That side of it is great for the sport.
On to the Robbie Deans debate – I’m not sure I’d have EXTENDED his contract at this point.
But I do admit that he has drawn the short straw with the talent pool here.
There would be 15 All Blacks picked in a forward pack before you picked 3 Wallabies incumbents.
However I have to say that Deans is more suited to a campaign of development.
I’ve got an article currently in editing here and thats probably the only good point I made in it.
Robbie Deans coaching style is more suited to slowling bringing players along. Taking the lumps of a long season, accepting the losses and not making an emotional reaction too them. Hence letting his team stay settled and focused.
I really do think there is a difference to the style needed as an international coach though. You get smaller, more specific windows of opportunity and sometimes the only difference between two sides is the emotional drive.
I don’t think this means he is a BAD international coach. I don’t even know if there are 5 better ones than him right now. It just means that it might not be the surest fit for his style at the moment. He can adapt though. Hopefully he does a little more.
August 12th 2011 @ 2:13pm
sheek said | August 12th 2011 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
EP,
I agree with the argument Deans should not be contracted beyond 2011, even if he were to win the world cup!
I think in most cases 4 years (the world cup cycle) is long enough for most coaches. It’s only a minority who can continue to be successful with the one tam beyond about 4 years.
Besides, while Ewen McKenzie wasn’t ready to be Wallabies coach in 2008, I believe he’s now ready to be Wallabies coach in 2012.
August 12th 2011 @ 6:50am
warrenexpatinnz said | August 12th 2011 @ 6:50am | Report comment
wre01, enjoyed the read. The best 22 for the Wallabies will be on display for the next two or three years to come, maybe longer depending on Robbie’s tenure.
Deans is not one for using his interchange bench unless pre planned (namely RWC trialing) or injury requires. Once you have a side that is set in stone and plays week in and week out together the improvement and the consistency will follow. Elsom will not be changed, Elsom is improving and Elsom is respected and admired by his peers.
I like the look of were Aussie rugby is, the youth in the squad mixed with experience, McKenzie an almost preselected coach when Deans finishes in 2013/2014, new captain in either Pocock/Genia/Horwill after the Lions tour.
The best thing that has Wallaby rugby in good stead;
Deans has structured our playing stocks so that replacements to the best 22 are few with maybe 2-3 dropping out year in and year out with wholesale changes a thing of the past. We all cry out for consistency and like all I hope it is here and here shortly but to have consistency you need consistency in selection and combinations, front and back rooms.
Why are the Crusaders so dominant, why have they maintained this through coach changes and the immense personal challenges they have faced?
The structure and succesion planning that was set up by Robbie Deans and the management of the Crusaders way back has allowed a base so strong that only cosmetic changes are needed. I think we have that now and with the likes of McKenzie supporting Deans in his comments, in his style the direction of Wallabies is on the up for the next ‘few’ years at least.
August 12th 2011 @ 7:39am
Couch Norm said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:39am | Report comment
The Crusaders structure was set up before Deans was coaching. I think Deans was the team manger for there first couple of Super titles.
Selection and the consistency of selection is the responsibilty of Deans. Are we now supporting 4 years of trials and then on the eve of the World Cup squad announcement they then decide on the best squad.
At international level it is all about being the best and playing the best and the Australian rugby public demands consistency. Current winning % is not good enough for one of the top world sides.
August 12th 2011 @ 7:54am
johnny-boy said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:54am | Report comment
You have become the classic boiling frog Warren. You are so used to seeing the wallabies underperform you’re not expecting much anytime soon or expecting Elsom to be come a great captain in the near future but you are sure they will come right eventually – maybe in the next couple of years, or so, or maybe a couple of years after that, or after that maybe ? By then Warren you will be well an truly cooked. Hasta la vista.
August 12th 2011 @ 8:21am
warrenexpatinnz said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:21am | Report comment
Mate could have used a lobster as the analogy!
Imagine if McCaw had of been dropped after he was criticised post 2007, or Henry and Co where would the ABs be now?
JB it is easy for anyone to jump on someones back and criticise but as I haven’t played for the Wallabies and because I don’t lay next to Robbie at night listening to him vent my opinions are more positvely based. Blind faith, some may say but I am old school, anyone wearing my national colours gets my respect and support.
If you look at the ABs JB, they get pulled up for not winning by enough, win be enough but not attractively and god help the team and coaches when they lose or a player happens to make a mistake which leads to a loss. Sport is for enjoyment, emotional release and as long as the Wallabies, and whoever plays for the Wallabies give their best against the best then I’ll support them no matter who is in charge.
August 12th 2011 @ 12:24pm
Who Needs Melon said | August 12th 2011 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
“could have used a lobster as the analogy”
I may not agree with your views today warren but I admire your sense of humour.
August 12th 2011 @ 7:02am
kingplaymaker said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:02am | Report comment
DEAD RIGHT.
90& of the criticism comes because he’s NOT AUSTRALIAN.
The xenophobic media and Wallabies fan savage him unfairly whatever he does because HE’S FROM NEW ZEALAND. Yes, that means he’s NOT AUSTRALIAN.
Can you imagine any Australian coach in a million years enduring this PURE HATRED from supporters and media?
What is most ridiculous is how whenever the media, especially Wayne Smith and Greg Crowden, want him to make a change in selection and pressure him to do it, and then he does it, they are STILL NOT HAPPY. Really Deans has actually done most of what they have lobbied for in selection over the last 12 months and when the players they have lobbied for fail, they PRETEND DEANS GOT IT WRONG AND THEY DIDN’T. The fans are the same too!
It is an absolute disgrace and goes to show that if one country is OPEN-MINDED enough to have a FOREIGN coach, it is NOT AUSTRALIA!!!!!
August 12th 2011 @ 7:08am
warrenexpatinnz said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:08am | Report comment
Well said KP.
August 12th 2011 @ 7:32am
formeropenside said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:32am | Report comment
I think his caps lock key is broken though.
People are not happy due to Deans record level of failure. I need not recite those depths here. It would be the same if it was an Australian coach – refer Tim Neilsen in the case of cricket.
August 12th 2011 @ 7:40am
kingplaymaker said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:40am | Report comment
The reaction is totally different to the Deans from any other Australian coach-and whenever he does win, they never mention his name at all but simply credit ‘the Wallabies’. It is an outrage.
Many admit that they don’t like a non-Australian coach and it is evident in every venomous word they spout.
August 12th 2011 @ 7:45am
formeropenside said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:45am | Report comment
Mate, I’m actually a more or less neutral in this – as a Queenslander, I actually prefer a New Zealander to a New South Welshman as Wallaby coach, but Deans had really not lived up to expectations.
August 12th 2011 @ 9:06am
kingplaymaker said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:06am | Report comment
formeropenside I think the Wallabies over the last three years has been the weakest playing pool in the professional era and that is the deep problem. It’s one no one wants to face, and it’s causes difficult to identify, though having had only four teams to develop players in a very competitive sporting marketplace may be one of them.
August 12th 2011 @ 9:36am
Mals said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:36am | Report comment
FOS – so the 2 world cups the Wallabies won under the coaching of New South Welshmen Dwyer & Macqueen means nothing to you eh?
August 12th 2011 @ 7:44am
kingplaymaker said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:44am | Report comment
warren take the example of Scott Higginbotham. Crowden and Smith have been lobbying all week for his inclusion and are delighted at it, not that they credit Deans for doing so. I very much hope he succeeds and think he will, but if he doesn’t, can you imagine Crowden and Smith admitting that they got it wrong? Never! Deans will be castigated for a selection mistake they whole-heartedly desired.
August 12th 2011 @ 8:08am
warrenexpatinnz said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:08am | Report comment
Couldn’t agree with you more KP. Deans is at a loss in every direction yet through this entire process he hasn’t hidden behind anyone, hasn’t criticised individuals publicaly and for me the best thing he has shown is resiliance in his plan.
The Aussie media in general have no clue to selection or long term planning with their ‘news’ about selling papers, creating talking points with negative articles being far more attention grabbing than positive ones.
I couldn’t really give a toss about being known as a one eyed Wallaby cheer leader, I can criticise but choose the way to do so constructively rather than burn someone at the stake as Martin has.
August 12th 2011 @ 8:10am
Moreton Bait said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Or, for example, selecting to play him out of position
August 12th 2011 @ 8:23am
johnny-boy said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:23am | Report comment
But Deans is cunning tho. Playing Higginbotham out of position so he can say see – didnt go so good. Have you seen the way Higginbotham packs in to the scrum at 8. He flops rather than drives. Hello forward and scrum coaches, is there anybody home ………………………………..didnt think so.
August 12th 2011 @ 9:02am
thurl said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:02am | Report comment
JB, the mannor of your criticism of deans is getting tedious. , are you now seriously suggesting that he is deliberately playing Higginbotham out of position to make himself look good. Elsom is going to be the capt going into the world cup….get over it…. If you want HB in the team he is going to have to fit in around Elsom
I don’t actually care one way or the other about your feelings toward him but c’mon, please be plausable in your criticism.
As an AB fan, I’m more than happy that he’s not doing so well with the WB. I was uncomfortable with him coaching the WB. It’s obvious to me he’s not getting the best out of what he has available to work with, but on the other hand I don’t think many in the team are up to it. (yet) But there is still this lingering dread, that some day, its all going to come together for him. It just better not be Oct 23rd
August 12th 2011 @ 7:46am
Couch Norm said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Criticism is because he didn’t go through the same selection criteria as the others and he is reported to be on a much bigger wage as the normal pay rate for a international coach and he has the worst winning percentage!.
It has nothing to do from where he comes from. We are all smarter than that
August 12th 2011 @ 9:04am
kingplaymaker said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:04am | Report comment
That’s not actually his fault if you think about it, and in any case doesn’t justify endless hostility and unfair reporting.
August 12th 2011 @ 7:52am
darwin stubby said | August 12th 2011 @ 7:52am | Report comment
‘Can you imagine any Australian coach in a million years enduring this PURE HATRED from supporters and media?’
Definitely – given the game in this country is basically along the NSW / Qld divide … so Aust coaches have been bagged mercilessly depending where they’re from … and it’s fair to say Deans has had an extremely easy ride up to this point … an Aust coach would have been panned years ago and possibly sacked within the last couple of seasons …
August 12th 2011 @ 8:29am
Jerry said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Deans over-reliance on X Factor is a real problem for the Wallabies.
August 12th 2011 @ 8:56am
darwin stubby said | August 12th 2011 @ 8:56am | Report comment
yip and the not pushing for the recruitment of such stella talents as Idris, Inglis, Slater etc … Aust needs more leaguies -
August 12th 2011 @ 9:12am
kingplaymaker said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:12am | Report comment
darwin here I agree. Australia has manifest weaknesses in certain positions: one of which is huge, powerful backs. League is full of colossal, excellent players, like Folau (too late), Inglis, Idris who could have remedied this.
Graham Henry has actually done much better on this front. New Zealand have so many excellent players they don’t need more, but nonetheless Henry recognised that league in New Zealand produces two or three astonishing players in a generation who could contribute. So he successfully courted SBW, made an offer to Karmichael Hunt and doubtless to Benji Marshall when he was off-contract: probably the best offers the NRZU was in a position to make.
If Deans and O’Neill had done the same and Israel Folau and Greg Inglis were the Wallabies centres instead of Pat Mccabe and AAC, with Genia and Cooepr inside them and Ioane, Beale and O’Connor outside them, then the Australian world cup prospects would be quite different.
August 12th 2011 @ 9:24am
darwin stubby said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:24am | Report comment
surely you don’t think I was serious ? … Idris ? – have you seen this bloke attempt to run ? …
and I think you’re over egging the NZRFU courting of league players
August 12th 2011 @ 9:37am
kingplaymaker said | August 12th 2011 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Idris has just come into his own, and is an immature player.
Folau and Inglis are 10,00000000000000 times more talented than the current Wallabies midfield (the worst in the professional era), are huge and brilliant runners, and were both available and off-contract last year. I think Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Folau, Inglis, O’Connor, Beale would have been a pretty good and balanced backline.
Well the NRZU did get SBW for a quarter of what Toulon were offering..