Why Shaun Marsh at six is a good idea
Roar Rookie By dassy_92, 16 Aug 2011 dassy_92 is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- Andrew McDonald, Andrew Symonds, Australian Cricket, Brad Hodge, Cricket, Ian Bell, Marcus North, Michael Clarke, Shane Watson, Shaun Marsh, Simon Katich, steve smith, Test cricket
In recent years, the position of number six in Australia’s batting line-up has been a contentious issue, with many players not being able to hold down that position.
Since Simon Katich was first dropped in 2005, there have been six different players who have held the position – Shane Watson, Andrew Symonds, Brad Hodge, Michael Clarke, Andrew McDonald, Marcus North and most recently Steve Smith.
Admittedly, Watson and Clarke have secured positions higher in the order, and Andrew Symonds would still be Australia’s number six if he controlled his behaviour.
However, the inclusion of Steve Smith for the final three Tests of the last Ashes series showed how little depth we had in terms of middle order batting, considering he was played as a front-line spinner in the series against Pakistan.
The inclusion of Shaun Marsh in Australia’s Test squad against Sri Lanka signals the selectors’ intentions to put on hold the search for a batsman who is more than just a part-time bowler.
If Marsh is selected to bat at number six, this would be a smart move by a selection panel that has been criticised of late. Not only would Australia’s batting be strengthened, but it would force Michael Clarke to bowl himself more, which is a bonus due to his ability to unexpectedly take key opposition wickets.
Another positive with this selection is that Marsh is still a young man that is in good form for his state. This means that he will have time to become a fine Test batsman, as well as being ready for a possible move up the order later in his career.
In a way they are following the lead of the new world number one England, who has in-form batsman Ian Bell batting at six.
Bell, like Marsh, normally bats in the top four for his county side and in England’s one-day internationals. So he is handy for the Englishmen when their top order collapses, or when they need someone to bat with the tail.
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August 16th 2011 @ 7:13am
fisher price said | August 16th 2011 @ 7:13am | Report comment
Well, I guess Marsh and Symonds have similar Shield records.
August 16th 2011 @ 9:44am
Brett McKay said | August 16th 2011 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Dassy, batting Steve Smith at 6 was a bit of a gamble, but I don’t think it highlighted any lack of depth. Marsh, Khawaja, Ferguson, Bailey, D.Hussey, even North would all still have been a decent option if they didn’t go with Smith.
That all said, Marsh and Khawaja would seem the best options currently, if it’s been decided that Smith isn’t the guy for now. Having guys who normally bat at the top of the order coming in around the second new ball is a bit of an advantage, and would add an element of solidity into a middle order that’s been a touch brittle of late, M.Hussey aside..
August 16th 2011 @ 10:17am
jameswm said | August 16th 2011 @ 10:17am | Report comment
If Khawaja isn’t batting higher, he’d have to be in ahead of Marsh.
I’d like Kato opening and Khawaja at 3, but seeing as Kat is not there, Khawaja should open. Ayone but Hughes.
We all agreed Punter should move down the order, so maybe we’ll have Khawaja at 3 (assuming they open with Hughes), and POnting/MHUssey at 5/6. That’d be an interesting middle order. I thin Ponting at 6 has some merit. Imagine working hard to get down to having the Aussies 4 for 140, 45 overs in, and Punter bustles in to the crease. A cracked on drive or pull later, and you’re thinking we’ve got some serious work to do. Mind you – get him or the bloke at the other end, and Haddin’s a good chance to be gone within the first 10 balls.
August 16th 2011 @ 10:55am
Russ said | August 16th 2011 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Before Warne came along, Australia spent most of the previous decade with G.Matthews or S.Waugh at number 6, generally not scoring as many runs as you’d want (Waugh moreso than Matthews), nor taking many wickets. Since Warne retired Symonds, North, McDonald (sort-of) and Smith have had their go. See the pattern?
If the spinner isn’t good enough then Australia is effectively playing with three bowlers (or 4 quicks and no spinner), and hence no. 6 becomes a wishy-washy all-rounder. This is a bad thing from a batting perspective, but it is also, to a degree, an inevitable thing. I don’t have a solution to that – actually I do, play McDonald and O’Keefe at 7/8 but that won’t happen – but I do know you can’t discuss no. 6 without discussing our bowling, unless you want to bowl the quicks into the ground, or we’ve somewhere found a spinner that can contain runs or take wickets (preferably both).
August 16th 2011 @ 2:19pm
jameswm said | August 16th 2011 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
Remember one of your openers is your 5th bowling option.
I would actually put Paine (more reliable than Haddin) up to 6, pick Butterworth or McDonald at 7, and Smith at 8. Smith needs to focus on his bowling – that is what sets him apart and he’s just as good as any other spinner we’ve got. Suddenly that is a very solid lower-middle order. You’ve got 3 specialist quicks at 9-11, 2 handy medium bowlers, and our best spinner.
Butterworth and McDonald are unfashionable bowlers, but they keep the runs down and get wickets. You can’t argue with results.
August 16th 2011 @ 3:02pm
Russ said | August 16th 2011 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
I didn’t remember. Watson opening and bowling a lot of overs is problematic from a tiredness (concentration) and injury perspective.
Regarding the discussion below, I wouldn’t bat Clarke above 5. His record coming in in the first 20 overs is dire. And that causes all sorts of problems with fitting M.Hussey, Ponting and Khawaja into the lineup if Ponting drops below 4. Plus I really think Cosgrove should be batting at 3 (again, won’t happen). But I agree on the bowling, perhaps in the next 12 months:
Marsh.S
Watson
Cosgrove
Khawaja
Clarke
Paine
Butterworth/McDonald
O’Keefe/Smith
Johnson (sigh)
Siddle
Copeland/Cummins/Starc/a.n.other
August 16th 2011 @ 7:56pm
fisher price said | August 16th 2011 @ 7:56pm | Report comment
McDonald is a very good call, and O’Keefe should certainly have been tried by now.
August 16th 2011 @ 2:11pm
The Barry said | August 16th 2011 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Hodge should have had the 6 spot (or higher) for years. Don’t get me started on Katich…
I think Ponting at 6 is a fantastic idea. I also think Watson should be batting at 5. How many runs would he make batting down the list ? I think it was the Adelaide test last year when Australia got rolled cheaply and then England batted for the best part of two days. Watson was asked to come out and open the batting after spending two days in blazing heat and bowling about 30 overs. Ridiculous.
I’ve been a fan of Marsh for a while – but I have big reservations. He always looks good but never quite seems to turn the starts into big scores or the odd big score into a run of form. I’d like to see him get a go at some stage – but like Smith at 6 it seems to be a sign of the weakness of our batting depth rather than a player genuinely winning selection on form.
Selectors to go…
August 16th 2011 @ 2:30pm
jameswm said | August 16th 2011 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Barry my team would be
1. Katich (c)
2. Watson (such a good opening pair)
3. Khawaja
4. Clarke (and he’d better bloody score consistent runs and earn them)
5. Ponting his reflexes aren’t what they used to be for no.3, and I think it’s time for Hussey to go and the Ashes was a last hurrah
6. Paine – Haddin’s irresponsible play has to be punished
7. Butterworth or MacDonald – take the bowling pressure of Smith, who needs to be brought along and protected a bit, at least for 12-18 months, and get heaps of bowling under his belt. Both are consistent and reliable pros and we need a few of them in our team, esp with Johnson there
8. Smith (our best spinner, great potential, accurate for a leggie, and needs heaps more tutelage from Shane)
9. Johnson I guess – decent cover for his off days, but he’s a matchwinner on his day
10. Siddle
11. Harris if fit, otherwise Copeland or Starc, who I think is our most promising quick – but needs a full season under his belt
NOT TOO FAR OFF
Marsh
Ferguson (yes, I rate him)
Pattinson
SOK
Hauritz – I haven’t given up on him. He’s smart and has good control and variety in flight. It worked for Vettori, who wasn’t a huge turner of the ball.
That new offie – I’ve never seen him so will reserve judgement
Faulkner
SCRAPHEAP
Hughes
MHussey, but only just. He still has something to offer but time to move on. If he stays, then Butterworth/MacDonald (a left field choice I know) make way for him. Close call and depends on the balance you want
Bollinger – can’t swing it any more
Hilfy for now till he gets his mojo back (if ever)
Beer
Doherty
North
Haddin
Have I forgotten anyone?
August 16th 2011 @ 8:01pm
Johnno said | August 16th 2011 @ 8:01pm | Report comment
White, Chris Rogers, Ed cowan, mICHEAL kLINGER
August 17th 2011 @ 8:58pm
jameswm said | August 17th 2011 @ 8:58pm | Report comment
ok White on the scrapheap
The other 3 a chance I guess, but onlky barely in a 2nd XI right now
August 16th 2011 @ 4:21pm
sledgeross said | August 16th 2011 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Its a tough call, the likes of Ferguson and Marsh have mediocre averages at first class level. But having said that, we did take a chance on the likes of the Waughs, Jones, Boon etc. I just dont think this generation is as mentally tough as the previous…..
August 16th 2011 @ 5:58pm
Lolly said | August 16th 2011 @ 5:58pm | Report comment
I’m not sure that Marsh is mentally tough enough for test cricket. I don’t think he is, but there’s only one way to find out. Ferguson plays at Adelaide and his average is worse than Marsh’s so he shouldn’t necessarily be in the queue at all.
Need players who can play spin at 6. Our young players, including Marsh and Ferguson, are going to be well out of their depth whoever is there against decent spin. Punter could help by being at 6, but he’ll retire – whenever that is – still at 3 I suspect.
August 17th 2011 @ 9:04pm
jameswm said | August 17th 2011 @ 9:04pm | Report comment
Ferguson is class and I’d back him. He has done great things in our ODI team in tough conditions.
I would back him the way we have with others, and I trust my judgement, oddly enough.
August 21st 2011 @ 12:56pm
Jason said | August 21st 2011 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Sean Marsh has 6 first class tons in a decade of first class cricket. I don’t see how there is any evidence that he would be a high quality test player.
August 23rd 2011 @ 12:53am
Trev said | August 23rd 2011 @ 12:53am | Report comment
My team would be:
1. Watson
2. Khawaja
3. Ponting
4. M.Hussey
5. Clarke
6. McDonald ( Part of our problem in the Ashes was the bowlers tended to spray their delivires, McDonald will add a stable line and length and tie a end down)
7. Paine
8. Johnson (A bit up abd down at times but at his best there isnt a batsmen in the world that can play him)
9. Hauritz
10. Harris ( Best bolwer we have I reckon)
11. Siddle
I really dont rate Hughes, hasnt done anything at even first class level since that South African tour but is granted a opening spot just because the selectors see him as the next in line.