Richie McCaw vs Quade Cooper: best of enemies
By Ryan O'Connell, 2 Sep 2011 Ryan O'Connell is a Roar Expert
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- All Blacks, Quade Cooper, Richie McCaw, Rugby Union, wallabies
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Two of international rugby’s biggest stars, All Black Richie McCaw and Wallaby Quade Cooper, have developed a nasty habit of getting into altercations with each other.
It’s always fantastic for a sport to have rivalries. It ensures that a little extra spice is added to proceedings. It guarantees that what is an already emotional situation becomes even more absorbing for fans. It provides a subplot to the overall athletic contest. And it adds another layer of intensity to the encounter.
However, the rivalry between McCaw and Cooper has now gone beyond the realm of ‘intense’, and entered an even more fascinating territory: niggly.
Cooper’s knee to the head of McCaw in the deciding Tri-Nations decider may have gone unpunished by officials, but anyone who thinks it was unintentional is fooling themselves.
Cooper was looking right at McCaw when he did it, so the contact could have been avoided if he had so desired.
Clearly Cooper had intent, and as such, I was surprised he wasn’t suspended.
It added another chapter to the growing rivalry between the two players, which appeared to have first brewed in the match between Australia and New Zealand in Hong Kong last year. In that game, Cooper shoved McCaw in the in-goal area during the final minutes of the Wallaby win.
Since then, the two players have had run-ins during almost every game in which they’ve squared off against each other, including the Super Rugby matches between the Crusaders and the Reds.
It’s a fascinating duel, because it’s somewhat unexpected. There isn’t a long history between the two, nor has there been any indication of bad blood before the Hong Kong match.
And McCaw and Cooper are also diametrically opposed in almost every way imaginable.
McCaw is a forward, and Cooper a back. McCaw is an openside flanker and a master at the breakdown. Cooper is a mercurial fly half who utilises sleight-of-hand and silky skills to bamboozle opponents. McCaw is a veteran, whilst Cooper is in the infancy of his international career.
McCaw is a classy leader of men, heavily respected throughout the world, and extremely media savvy. Cooper is a cheeky Queenslander who has had disciplinary, off-field issues, and appears raw and nervous in front of the camera.
From a distance, apart from trans-Tasman bragging rights, their stark differences would suggest that there is little evidence that would indicate that they should be such fierce rivals.
Robbie Deans has called the rivalry ‘healthy’. In reality, whilst it’s fantastic for the media, and provides fans with great banter over a beer, it’s not really a rivalry at all. Rather its two players engaging in some world class niggle.
Both players have a keenness for the battle within the battle, and it’s this quality that they share that makes them bitter adversaries.
Cooper, by virtue of his cheeky personality, loves to indulge in a little bit of niggle during games. His bold confidence is what makes him such a special and dangerous attacking player, but it’s also the reason he loves to engage in some ‘extracurricular’ activities with his opponents.
Meanwhile, McCaw, by virtue of his playing position and amazing skill set, is both accustomed to and motivated by the individual confrontations that rugby serves up.
The next time the two combatants square off against each other very well may be during rugby’s showpiece event: the World Cup final. On the sport’s biggest stage, with the most at stake, you can guarantee that McCaw and Cooper will resume hostilities, should the two nations battle for the William Webb Ellis trophy.
Long may the niggle continue.
You can follow Ryan O’Connell on Twitter @RyanOak
Ryan is an ex-representative basketballer who shot too much, and a (very) medium pace bowler. He's been with The Roar as an expert since February 2011, has written for the Seven Network, and been a regular on ABC radio. Ryan tweets from @RyanOak.
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September 2nd 2011 @ 3:58am
kingplaymaker said | September 2nd 2011 @ 3:58am | Report comment
‘It added another chapter to the growing rivalry between the two players, which appeared to have first brewed in the match between Australia and New Zealand in Hong Kong last year. In that game, Cooper shoved McCaw in the in-goal area during the final minutes of the Wallaby win.’
Cooper claimed it didn’t begin with the shove, but was actually started by some subtle physical violence applied by the old All Black forwards (meaning in this context Mccaw), earlier during the match. Aside from watching every detail of the tape it would be difficult to prove this, although it’s perfectly likely.
This rivalry is absurd: as no player can punch each other for fear of being sent off they end up effeminately slap/pushing in battles which make handbag fights look macho, and are also pretty camp. In what resembles foreplay more than brawling, they both come out seeming ridiculous.
September 2nd 2011 @ 5:15am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 5:15am | Report comment
Very subtle….
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:24am
Kane said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:24am | Report comment
I can see why Quade had to try and prov himself after that attempt
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:29am
Seiran said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:29am | Report comment
I didn’t see any McCaw niggling in that footage, but I did see plenty of All Black ruck infringements.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:28am
Taniwha said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:28am | Report comment
“Quade Cooper was a speed bump…”
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:10am
CraigB said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Cooper claimed it didn’t begin with the shove, but was actually started by some subtle physical violence applied by the old All Black forwards (meaning in this context Mccaw), earlier during the match. Aside from watching every detail of the tape it would be difficult to prove this. Try this:
Of course its St Ritchi so it’s not McCheat trying to kick Cooper in the nuts, its more likely Cooper is trying to rape his foot
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:26am
warrenexpatinnz said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:26am | Report comment
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:26am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Did you happen to miss the no arms clear out & Jake the Muss impersonation afterwards? Also, take a close look at where McCaw’s foot is directly prior to when he kicks out.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:36am
warrenexpatinnz said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Jerry when I watched that with both eyes open Cooper could have been penalized for no arms but Jake the Muss he isn’t, think “Dr Ropota” is all of 5ft but I guess when your laying on your back looking up that would add some height eh!
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:04am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:04am | Report comment
You dont have two eyes warren, just one gold coloured eye :p
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:13pm
warrenexpatinnz said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
Mate talk about coincedence, just put a post up to Taniwha re a slipping eye patch problem I have! Glad you said it was a gold one, I was thinking plain black.
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:44pm
Winston said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
More like uncle bully
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:30am
Taniwha said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:30am | Report comment
All I got from that vid was that the top rated comment was “McCaw 3 times irb champion, cooper a try hard benji marshall.”
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:13am
mattamkII said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:13am | Report comment
awesome comment – what are you 11 years old?
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:43am
RucknRoll said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Awsome comment – what are you 5 years old?
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:27pm
Taniwha said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
Give or take a couple.
September 2nd 2011 @ 3:28pm
Chris said | September 2nd 2011 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Er would that be just after Cooper came in with a swinging right arm to clear McCaw out?
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:06pm
McGee said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
McCaw is a cheat and a cry baby. He is so accustomed to being treated like on field royalty, good on QC for not buying into the hype and giving him a bit of pushback, that most refs are too scared to give him.
September 15th 2011 @ 11:57am
Pillock said | September 15th 2011 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Why isn’t the late hit on O’Connor after he scored mentioned only a shove in the back by Cooper?
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:18am
WQ said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:18am | Report comment
I think this whole process was mastermined by Dingo Deans to unsettle McCaw and the All Blacks prior to the Hong Kong game when he was desperate for a win.
It worked so he has stuck with it and in fact has supported Cooper with his cheap shots to the point of stating he thinks it is healthy!!!
It is going to backfire on Dingo because whilst Quade has got away with a few blatant cheap shots he surely will not continue to get away with it. As you have mentioned Ryan they may meet again this year in the World Cup final and I just wonder how Healthy Dingo might think it is to play a period of the game a man down???
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:00am
Sage said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Masterminded in his top secret underground rugby lair no doubt (cue maniacal laughter)
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:18am
James P said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:18am | Report comment
If anyone has a top secret underground rugby lair, it’s Robbie Deans lol
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:13pm
Campbell Watts said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
The wallabies are use to playing a man down with Cooper – at least on defence anyway!!
Boom boom
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:11am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:11am | Report comment
“This rivalry is absurd: as no player can punch each other for fear of being sent off they end up effeminately slap/pushing in battles which make handbag fights look macho, and are also pretty camp. In what resembles foreplay more than brawling, they both come out seeming ridiculous”
Having just re-read this, I’d say it’s about the best summation of the situation I’ve seen thus far.
September 2nd 2011 @ 4:02am
Viscount Crouchback said | September 2nd 2011 @ 4:02am | Report comment
One has to have a bit of sneaking admiration for any fly-half prepared to dish it back to an open-side flanker. Generally in rugby the 10 simply takes whatever punishment comes his way, so it’s quite amusing to see Cooper inverting the unwritten rules of the game.
On the topic of McCaw, has anyone else noticed that he seems to get rather flustered in fast, intense, aggressive games? He’s a super player but I’m far from convinced that he possesses Johnson/Eales/Smit levels of stoicism, calmness and resilience…
September 2nd 2011 @ 5:26am
Damo said | September 2nd 2011 @ 5:26am | Report comment
Yes, Viscount I have noticed this in McCaw recently. He is not the McCool of recent years.
What was all this indignation about Cooper’s flaky knee? Methinks he did protest too much. A bit of gamesmanship to get the Wallaby playmaker suspended?
An All Black forward who gets thumped regularly by 2m plus monsters was so shaken by what? It wasn’t Cooper’s knee.
It was the scoreboard and every other Wallaby who had hit him that night that was upsetting McCaw.
It was also at the end of a ruck where Richie had just had a nap on the side between Genia and the ball. It’s McCaw who arguably should have been walked in that instance.
I cannot believe the indignation from across the ditch from this non incident. A couple of kiwis at work yesterday opined that ‘he should show more respect to the captain’.
Well, on that vein, a captain should show more respect for the laws of the game.
But Cooper should not have done it. It was wrong and I am sure that he is very sorry for winning, um… I mean kneeing .
September 2nd 2011 @ 5:47am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 5:47am | Report comment
“It’s McCaw who arguably should have been walked in that instance”
I’d quite like to hear that argument. Cause I suspect it’s a load of bollocks.
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:01pm
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
I’d still quite like to hear how you reckon McCaw was in the wrong there….
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:28pm
McGee said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
Mccaw is not a good spokesman for the game… Considering how much he slows it down and ruins the whole spectical. He is always in the wrong because he does not play in the spirit of the game. So no point in all his tears when someone else does something to him that is not in the spirit of the game.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:08am
p.Tah said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:08am | Report comment
I’ve got a sneaky feeling the old MacCool of previous seasons may find his previous form and be named player of the tournament…
Let’s not give him anything more to rev him up. Haven’t we learnt our chest beating lesson yet?
September 2nd 2011 @ 3:03pm
Denby said | September 2nd 2011 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
Damn right, Saint Richie has got the best of us more times than I care to think. 2 victories against 30 something?
Love the Wallabies but McCaw is an amazing player and briliant captain, he is truly a legend of the game I do not think Quade Cooper has put him off his game just yet.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:49am
mike said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Enjoy while you can.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:25am
WQ said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:25am | Report comment
C’mon Damo that is rubbish, blatant cheap shot foul play is foul play and it deserved a yellow card at minimum, McCaw was merely trying to convince Wayne Barnes to act accordingly.
The real issue here is what happens now if for instance Richie or one of the other All Blacks accidentally knees Cooper in the head? Is that ignored as well as just a “flaky knee” or should that be treated as foul play and receive a yellow or red card?
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:02am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Imagine how kearns and martin would go off! instead of practcally ignoring it like they did last weekend. They would be calling for him to be banned from all rugby for about 2 years I reckon.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:21am
WQ said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Great comment Red Chief, the commentary went eerily quiet surrounding this incident!
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:27am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Its the same when the wannabees infringe, Kearns and martin go ballistic about cheating everytime McCaw is near a ruck (and often when he’s not), but dont mention a thing when the wannabees “cheat”. Im 99 percent sure thats why most aussie fans think McCaws a cheat, they dont know a thing about rules around the ruck, but think because Kearns complains (at every ruck) it must be cheating!
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:42am
Funk said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:42am | Report comment
“The real issue here is what happens now if for instance Richie or one of the other All Blacks accidentally knees Cooper in the head?”
And what about if Richie or one of the other All Blacks accidentally elbows Cooper in the head (see attached photo)……ahhh, nothing, not a peep, no histerics, no dummy spitting,no the world is against us, no we hate you all, no why do people pick on him, just bleating from a large amount if kiwi bloggers about an incident that went against them! Should the knee have happened, should the elbow have been thrown….no, but we’re not playing tidly winks here, harden the F up! Bring on the world cup!
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:54am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:54am | Report comment
I dont think he swung the elbow into his face Funk, apples with apples please…
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:12pm
Funk said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
drove it, hammered it, flung it, hurled it, threw it, heaved it, any other adjectives could be used, as for apples with apples the only difference is, one was by the much maligned (by almost every kiwi blogger out there) QC, the other was by the butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth, can do no wrong (in nz eyes) McCaw. I am amazed at the blindness of so many kiwis…is the attached photo at the top of this article photo shopped, or his cloak of invisability working after the game? Is the photo not showing RM hitting QC with an elbow to the head?
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:46pm
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
So you dont think that a photo can be misleading? If McCaw had swung an elbow delibratly into Cheaps shot’s face, do you think the aussie commentators would have just let it go?
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:07pm
Funk said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
Can a photo be misleading?????? I think we should ask the nz hearald?
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:24pm
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Your right, the photos in the herald make out that quade has made a tackle before! :p
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:59am
WQ said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Given your opinion on this Funk, then you will be the first Wobbly blogger to tell the other Wobbly bloggers to suck it up, if and when the retribution comes?
Some how I doubt it!!!
You will be baying for their blood along with all of the other Wobbly bloggers.
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:18pm
Funk said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Like we’ve been all baying for blood over the elbow??????
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:47pm
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Funk is delusional, or Phil Kearns.
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:10pm
Funk said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
How many times can you say phil kearns in one day RC? Are they your words for the day?
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:12pm
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
This is all getting a bit Philkearning boring.
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:26pm
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
About the same amount of time as he complains in a match.
Thats all for today though, even im getting sick of typing his name.
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:23pm
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Probably cause the attached photo doesn’t really tell you anything. You can’t tell much from a still image.
The NZ Herald did a little photo essay of a bunch of ‘high tackles’ by Quade for instance, but I’d bet that the majority of them were nothing more than some incidental contact.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/image.cfm?c_id=4&gal_cid=4&gallery_id=121046#7955205
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:57pm
johnny-boy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
What it shows is Cooper making quite a few ‘heavy’ tackles. Shock horror
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:04pm
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
I know. It’s quite telling that they had to go back to 2009 to find enough tackles by him to fill up the gallery…..
September 2nd 2011 @ 3:43pm
Chuck said | September 2nd 2011 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
The slideshow that the Hearald put up really was quite ridiculous if you ask me, some of those tackles weren’t even close to being high tackles let alone even look dangerous. Like you Jerry I was surprised they even found enough photos of QC making tackles.
September 3rd 2011 @ 4:53pm
d0nutz said | September 3rd 2011 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
Funk, the guy that needs to harden up is u, your fluffy little marshmallow, Cooper is a spoon he’s not even a top player, genia is the man in the wallabies not that cheap shot fag. Honestly he shoved macaw cause u looked like a speed bump. If u Wana get back at someone smash em
in a tackle. I so hope the wallabies play Samoa. Cooper will be doing no look passes all day, so he doesn’t get caught with the ball. Bottom line: coopers a school girl, and u sound like a protective mum.
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:05pm
ThelmaWrites said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
M’Lord
That Australian ascendancy in rugby might occur during his watch haunts McCaw. As it does with anti-Deans posters in this site.
After all, he said, while being interviewed about the coaching travails of Deans, his former coach and erstwhile? friend, “He knows how to come out on the other side”. He said it half-laughingly.
I first saw him flustered at the Sydney match way back in 2008, when the Wallas were winding down to a victory. He and Mortlock were injured and were watching from their respective sidelines. He was squirming in his seat, where he was watching with his girl-friend.
If it weren’t that we are at the cusp of the RWC, I’d take the captaincy away from McCaw. He has become a liability. His alleged cheating, chronicled by Mark Reason in stuff.co.nz, will become a lightning rod for intense scrutiny from referees.
But of course that won’t happen. It’s too abrupt and who will replace him?
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:15pm
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Good god.
I was gonna write a reasoned post addressing your theory, but I thought instead I’d just link to a facepalm picture.
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6026.0;attach=5741;image
September 3rd 2011 @ 1:57pm
MikeB said | September 3rd 2011 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
Gold!
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:19pm
WQ said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
M’Lord alright Thelma, do you come from the same Planet???
September 2nd 2011 @ 4:03am
CizzyRascal said | September 2nd 2011 @ 4:03am | Report comment
Without having paid too much attendance to it, I would have said it is Cooper that keeps getting involved and McCaw has done nothing (in the open). Odd and if it were lesser (known) players, it probably wouldn’t have garnered the attention it has.
September 2nd 2011 @ 4:08am
kingplaymaker said | September 2nd 2011 @ 4:08am | Report comment
Cizzy Mccaw can do anything without being seen and not get away with it. Cooper not least because he spends less time at the breakdown is bound to do things more in the open. Whoever could notice this kick from Mccaw for example:
‘
September 2nd 2011 @ 5:38am
thurl said | September 2nd 2011 @ 5:38am | Report comment
hardly a kick…
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:14am
CraigB said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:14am | Report comment
and the crash of a double standard hitting the forum. I blame Cooper for trying to have sex with his foot
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:47am
RucknRoll said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:47am | Report comment
If that’s what you recognize as sex, then maybe you’re not familiar with it….
Your problems now become clearer to us all…
September 2nd 2011 @ 5:11am
Corey said | September 2nd 2011 @ 5:11am | Report comment
To be fair, McCaw is the dirtiest player in the game. He cheats as much as possible without getting penalised, he will cheat when the ref is on the other side of the breakdown, when the ref isn’t looking or when the ref is just too inconsistent. So, I would think McCaw deserves that knee in the head, because if the ref’s aren’t going to penalise him then the players should.
Never seen a dirtier player in my life in any Rugby code.
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:13am
Arky said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:13am | Report comment
McCaw is rugby’s biggest cheat. It is pleasing to see someone niggle him. And to the bleaters – and there will be plenty – McCaws cheating lost he and his fans the right of appeal long ago.
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:19am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:19am | Report comment
“the bleaters”
Self awareness fail.
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:46am
Capital said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:46am | Report comment
McCaw is a great player.
Anyone who can dominate their position and influence games as he does deserves respect.
Lets be straight – George Smith played on the edge of the laws, Pocock does not and McCaw does.
Great players know when to seize the moment, and know when it will cost their team 3 points or simply a kick for line. The guy is a seriously good rugby player and if he was a Wallaby, we would not have the same opinion of him that is touted on this forum.
Is that the true test of a great player – we would want them in our side?
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:17pm
ThelmaWrites said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:17pm | Report comment
Capital
He will never be held in the same high regard as Michael Jones. Way beneath I would add. He will be admired for sordid reasons.
September 3rd 2011 @ 12:19pm
darwin stubby said | September 3rd 2011 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
oh grow up – and try and get some understanding of the game
September 3rd 2011 @ 6:01pm
ThelmaWrites said | September 3rd 2011 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
DS and RC
I thought I’d find out a little bit more about your hero. I got youtube and keyed in “richie mccaw cheating” and lo and behold! I got a ready-made prompt with those very words! Wow, the results were hilarious! Yuk, yuk. Some dating from 4 years back!
Anyway, in a serious vein, …history will tell.
September 3rd 2011 @ 4:46pm
Red Chief said | September 3rd 2011 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Most actually hold him in regard as the best 7 to ever play the game. 3 times the best player in the world is no mean feat.
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:05pm
the other Steve - and AB fan said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
Yeah, Corey, clearly you’re right and all those test and S15 refs are always wrong, except of course when they penalise Richie.
Not to mention all the Assistant Refs and the citing commissioners, dozens of cameras…
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:41am
Who Needs Melon said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:41am | Report comment
Corey, the term ‘dirty’ in rugby is used in relation to players inclined to grope, gouge and injure opposition players off the ball, at the bottom of rucks, etc., isn’t it? Are you saying McCaw does this? Or using dirty to mean ‘cheating’?
I, and just about every man and his dog, have offered opinions on what constitutes cheating on the rugby pitch in relation to McCaw and I’m not going to bore anyone with stating the same old thing all over again. But it is interesting to imagine how we would feel about Cooper if he were playing for South Africa. And how we would feel about McCaw if he were playing for Australia.
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:32am
Kane said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:32am | Report comment
How can you call it cheating if hes not being penalised? The ref is there he has two assistants and they dont see anything wrong with what hes doing so why should he stop?
The Wallabies conceded 8 penalties in that last game against The All Blacks, thats pretty conclusive poof that they cheat.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:16am
CraigB said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:16am | Report comment
would you also suggest that anyone who exceeds the speed limit and is not caught are not breaking the law??
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:25am
Kane said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:25am | Report comment
If you speed down a road with a speed camera and two cops and they dont fine you then clearly the people employed to enforce the law dont believe you are breaking them.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:24am
jeremy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:24am | Report comment
…which is a self-defeating argument, because the vast, vast majority of drivers have at some stage or another driven faster than the speed limit. In a 60km zone, driving at 60.0000000000000001 kmph is technically breaking the law. Yet we don’t have every single person in Australia up before the courts paying fines.
Laws must be policed in order to be effective, I believe that’s what Kane is pointing out.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:25am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:25am | Report comment
You guys sound like your Phil Kearns parrot
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:32am
katzilla said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:32am | Report comment
‘I would think McCaw deserves that knee in the head’
‘Never seen a dirtier player in my life in any Rugby code’
Complaining about Dirty Players – Condoning Dirty Violence……………..
Your the poster child for Contraception pal.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:49am
Kane said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:49am | Report comment
That Corey is exactly why you should not be posting on this website, you obviously dont watch any rugby. Katzilla is absolutely correct. Have you ever seen McCaw line someone up and punch them other than Peter van Zyl? No! Has he ever been carded for foul play? No! He’s only ever had one yellow card in his test career not bad for some one who is supposedly the dirtiest in the game and is also a 98 test veteran.
Theres no way you can call him the dirtiest player in the world when he has had cheap shots put on him from the likes of Lote Tuquiri, Jamie Hesslip, and Andy Powell he has done nothing but defend him self.
He has never been suspended from test rugby for dirty play.
I might add that Quade has already had a week on the sideline for a spear tackle.
Do you think the IRB and the worlds greatest players including John Eales would condone dirty play and award him IRB Player of the Year three times?
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:05am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Well said.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:32am
Quakezone... said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:32am | Report comment
I also recall in that same game where Tuquiri speartackled, Phil Waugh blatantly punched Richie from behind but the ref once again did nothing…remember Waugh being substituted off all Bloodied and bandaged…Rugby payers remember and form there own retribution in the deep dark places
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:41am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Those things didnt count though, because McCaw didnt do them. Seems to be the attitude of many australians
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:07pm
Taniwha said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Ha, notice the lack of replies to these examples and lines of reasoning. It’s like listening to the Australian commentary team as it all happened – silence.
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:28pm
warrenexpatinnz said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
Question Red Chief; Were was Richie positioned when these tackles were made?
Second question; Did Richie dislocate his shoulder in the spear tackle?
third question; Quakezones post highlights the exact point most posters are refering to, what Richie does in behind the cloak of legs and bodies or off the ball is just as dirty what gutsier? players do to him in the open? So who is the dirtier player,?
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:37pm
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
He was the ball carrier for the spear tackle and was tackling a Wallaby ball carrier (both still on their feet) when Waugh smashed him in the face.
The Tuqiri thing was a bit inadvertent, McCaw was twisting a bit after being picked up which made it seem worse. The Waugh thing was pretty dodgy though – a high swinging arm tackle on a tackler. It was obvious in that game that the Wallabies were targetting him – not usually in a dirty fashion, but trying to take him out of play (rather like the AB’s have been accused of doing to Pocock in the leadup to Nonu’s try).
September 2nd 2011 @ 4:06pm
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
So warren you are basing all of this “Richie is a dirty player” on him allegedly commiting dirty acts in the ruck, which have not been picked up in 98 tests and well and over a hundred first class games, by any ref or any of the ten plus cameras per game? ever? wouldnt he have been cited at least once if he was such a dirty player as you all claim??
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:57am
Funk said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:57am | Report comment
“remember Waugh being substituted off all Bloodied and bandaged” Huh…that could be any one of the games Phil Waugh played, I can’t remember a single game where he didn’t come off with some blood over him.
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:07pm
the other Steve - and AB fan said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
yes, it was always his own though!
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:51pm
Scotty said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:51pm | Report comment
Richard Loe – now there was a proper dirty player. McCaw ain’t dirty, he’s possessed of great amounts of low cunning – thats what makes him quite good. I have yet to see him try and blind anybody.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:54am
WQ said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Corey,
I challenge you to find out how many minutes Richie McCaw has spent off the field as a result of a yellow or red card at any level of Rugby. Once you have done that then find out if he has ever been cited for foul play or actually fronted a judiciary of any kind.
Once you have done all that and then got over the embarrassment of your comment about Richie McCaw being the dirtiest player in the game, you should retract or re-phrase your comment.
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:07pm
Riccardo said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
Bakkies anyone? Corey, you and your overstressed one-eye need to have a cup of tea and a lie down…
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:16am
Arky said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:16am | Report comment
And When we adjust for the cheating of McCaw and the impact it has Pocock has the ascendancy and is the better number seven.
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:54am
AussieKiwi said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:54am | Report comment
I hope for your sake you are being ironic.
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:36am
p.Tah said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:36am | Report comment
Love the photo. Either Richie has just clocked Quade one or he is bringing out a ‘Ritchie’ aftershave post world cup and is offering Quade a smell.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:46am
Monty said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Hahaha I can hear it now said in a whisper “Ritchie…..”
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:01pm
p.Tah said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:01pm | Report comment
The slogan could be: ”Richie… for the players and the cheaters”
September 2nd 2011 @ 6:59am
Ash said | September 2nd 2011 @ 6:59am | Report comment
McCaw actually started all this by lashing out with his boot at both Quade and David Pocock in Hong Kong last year.
What about the picture to this article? Elbow to the head anyone?
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:10am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:10am | Report comment
Of course he did.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:41pm
Holty said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:41pm | Report comment
Correct
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:25am
jeremy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:25am | Report comment
No, it started earlier than that. Richie McCaw has been cheating since the day he was born, absolutely anything applied to him by Squeaky Clean Quade Cooper is simple karmic redistribution.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:52am
Kane said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Squeaky clean?
The man the ARU have double standards for? They bring out a zero tolerance on bad behavior to get rid of Lote Tuqiri yet when Quade steals a laptop or gets caught driving while disqualified its all forgiven?
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:48pm
jeremy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
er, either you’ve missed the subtle sarcasm in my post or I’m missing the subtle sarcasm in yours.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:44pm
Kane said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
Sorry jeremy
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:38pm
warrenexpatinnz said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Kane would suggest staying away from this topic as have a quick look in your AB squad before posting players past indiscretions, you may be suprised in what you find.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:44pm
Kane said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
I am aware some of the All Blacks have some indiscretions such as seal shooting but the NZRFU have never made a zero tolerance policy to get rid of a player then not apply it to another
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:43pm
Holty said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
Also correct. Well done fella’s you are getting better at this!!! But I do prefer retribution
September 2nd 2011 @ 3:24pm
soapit said | September 2nd 2011 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
he did but he didnt get penalised so its not cheating.
jeez it’s not like people are being punched in the face by these two (or headbutted in the back of the head or tackled in the back without the ball). its just a bit of niggle. nothing new. toughen up everyone.
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:11am
kingplaymaker said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:11am | Report comment
From the Australian point of view, it’s a good tactic to put Mccaw’s concentration off. He has to be the captain, play openside already, and having to spend half the match pawing Cooper could distract him from the first two tasks.
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:25am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Which would be a great idea – except it also seems to have thrown Cooper’s game off. Even last weekend, he didn’t actually play all that well, and in Auckland he was complete gash.
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:42am
Capital said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:42am | Report comment
Maybe Jerry, or maybe he was actually playing team instructions – which were severely lacking in Beldisloe 1.
I am sure after that effort he would have been told to rein in his outrageousness, and be part of a changed game strategy to dominate tight before throwing wide.
Also his best games will be when the opposition excessively kick to the back 3. His counter has been the X factor in most cases. In the past two matches – the forwards have created a platform, and Genia has made th breaks closer to the ruck at critical times.
I wouldn’t necessarily say that he didn’t play well – he just wasn’t a standout.
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:49am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:49am | Report comment
An example of it throwing his game off was in that incident directly before Genia scored – McCaw was attempting a counter ruck, but had very little chance of succeeding and Cooper comes into clear him out. The ruck was well formed and there was no real need for Cooper to do this, and I doubt many coaches want one of their main playmakers unnecessarily adding himself to the pile when they’re hot on attack.
It didn’t matter as Genia seized on an opportunity a couple of phases later, but you can hardly say it’s very smart play from Cooper (and I don’t subscribe to the theory that the distraction to McCaw lead to the try being scored – McCaw was defending the opposite side of the ruck to where Genia attacked).
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:15am
johnny-boy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:15am | Report comment
Funny you should mention that Jerry as I was just having a look at the youtube replay and if it’s the same moment (13:30) Cooper goes in to the ruck as the forwards are elsewhere and comes out the other side whereby by McCaw very cunningly pretends to shove him back with his hands at shoulder level and ‘accidentally’ gets Cooper in the jaw with his elbow (oldest trick in the book) which Cooper initially objects too and then lets it go. I would say consequently that McCaw started it early in the game and subsequently got what was coming to him. The All Blacks are, not surprisingly acting a bit like the kiwi roarers on this site. They dont mind dishing it out and think it is their god given right but get all squeally when the Aussies dish it back up to them. Better harden up fellas the World Cup is no place for sooks. Good points VC it is a bit affronting to see a supposedly flaky 1st five roughing up the ‘untouchable’ McCaw
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:24am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:24am | Report comment
As McCaw stands up, Cooper shoulder is basically in his face. Given the only angle I’ve seen is a fairly wide one, and given it takes McCaw a second to react after Cooper comes in, I’m not quite ready to make any kind of conclusion as to who started it. It may be McCaw reacting to the clear out, sure, but it could just as easily be him reacting to something Cooper is doing. To be honest, I don’t really care.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:26am
Harry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Having watched the replay again the guy who missed Genia for his try was Franks, and he seemed very focused on marking Quade and not Genia.
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:47am
kingplaymaker said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Jerry it seems to be part of the overall Wallabies strategy in a way. Part of this is rampaging into tackles, contact etc..staring down the haka, trying to intimidate in whatever way.
It’s normal tactics for the Springboks but unusual for the Wallabies.
The Wallabies are chosing bulkier and bulkier players. The ABs in my opinion should do the same. It looks as if they’ll have to for the time being with Kaino and Read in the backrow, but I wouldn’t be suprised if they go for size elsewhere too.
Perhaps some of this in a way is down to awareness of likely wet weather conditions and the resultingly physical kind of game played, and even more the presence of northern hemisphere referees in big knockout matches.
On a side note, I wonder whether pawing another player (not punching), qualifies as obstruction? If it’s not actually fighting but takes the opposition player out of the game, but isn’t holding back either, what is it’s actual status?
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:02am
ohtani's jacket said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:02am | Report comment
It was the second match in a row where they’ve given Richie a working over and the third match in a row where they’ve cheated more. It’s obvious that the Wallabies and the All Blacks don’t like each other and that’s fine and good and how it should be… the problem is that Australian fans don’t know how to acknowledge the Wallabies’ new found cynical play after years of pretending to be the good guys of rugby. The fact that Robbie has the Wallabies cheating more in the same vein as the Crusaders or All Blacks is some rich irony.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:19am
johnny-boy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Just evening up the odds
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:34am
Capital said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:34am | Report comment
OJ, I know there may not be much middle ground … but …
Richie got worked over – sounds like the same way the ABs dealt with the threat of Pocock – its called rugby – know the opposition.
Third match in a row where they have cheated more – ???
Because they won? Against the most experienced side the ABs have fielded (most test matches) ???
Robbie has them cheating in the same vein – ??? Really – that why we have suddenly starting winning the last three tests ???
There may not be much middle ground – but thanks for the smile
They just deserved to win (as we have both stated) on the night.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:30am
ohtani's jacket said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:30am | Report comment
The Wallabies have cheated more ever since Deans and Elsom spit the dummy about the All Blacks last season. The Reds cheated throughout the season as well. It’s obvious that Australian fans only care about cheating when their side loses. Time to drop the charade.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:53am
Capital said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:53am | Report comment
I guess the best cheats run the roost.
Number 1 or 2 – who cheats best !!!
September 3rd 2011 @ 7:58pm
ThelmaWrites said | September 3rd 2011 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
OJ
Very clever: deflect some of the accusations on the Wallabies to get the refs to sweep them into the net, along with the ABs. Or to lessen the scrutiny on the ABs.
September 3rd 2011 @ 10:06pm
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2011 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
No ref is reading the Roar looking for advice on what to scrutinize. Any accusations are directed at hyproctical Wallaby supporters of which there is an abudance.
September 4th 2011 @ 12:35am
ThelmaWrites said | September 4th 2011 @ 12:35am | Report comment
“Frank Bunce, who played 55 tests for the All Blacks between 1992-97, was unfazed. “Those sorts of things have been levelled at us for years and years and years.
“It’s gamesmanship – we aren’t coached to do it, we aren’t told to do it, but you do it. They do it, Aussie do it … little things like holding jerseys to give yourself that two or three-second advantage. You can’t tell me the All Blacks are the only team in the world that do it.”
September 2nd 2011 @ 3:31pm
soapit said | September 2nd 2011 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
i for one can freely admit there’s a bit going on from aus. what i dont believe is that nz can turn around and act like victims as aus is not doing anything over and above what you’ll see from nz or any other team. its a fairly important part of the game in my opinion to not be pushed around and we havent had anyone willing to step up for a while and nz have had an edge on us in that respect (among many others).
again so long as no one has a sook and acts like a victim i’m happy to support not taking a backward step and trying to put the captain off his game so long as you dont get penalised, binned, sent off or suspended. coopers got his balance right on that one so far.
September 3rd 2011 @ 12:56am
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2011 @ 12:56am | Report comment
I don’t begrudge the Wallabies for not taking a backward step and dishing out some treatment of their own. That’s how rugby is played in NZ. But Wallaby fans have got to be consistent.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:16am
CraigB said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:16am | Report comment
ouplayed Carter. If thats as good as he gets I’ll accept it
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:44am
Jerry said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:44am | Report comment
He outplayed Carter cause Carter was poor, not cause he was particularly good.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:26am
Capital said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Carter certainly had a bad game – and it is not often we get to see his game behind a pack that is not dominant.
To the same token, Genia outplayed Wepu.
He played his role in a winning team, and it was a more mature effort than some of the headless chook routines – which I attribute to the one on ones he has had with Deans since B1.
He performed his role well in a side that played very good rugby. That will do me.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:30am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Aussies deserved the win, if people stopped defending cheap shot cooper you would be able to bask in a forum of kiwis telling you this
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:42am
Capital said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:42am | Report comment
RC
My comments were regarding his play during the match – not his conduct when cited. Actually I haven’t defended QC on any level of his idiocy. On a number of occasions have stated that his actions were a cheap shot – just as I think the Ali Williams trip was a gutless shot.
I was commenting on a thread about his play and specifically the comment ‘not because he was particularly good.’
September 2nd 2011 @ 11:58am
Red Chief said | September 2nd 2011 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Comment wasnt really aimed at you Capital, i know you havent stooped to the level of other aussies on this thread. I was more agreeing with your observations and saying that we would be saying the same things if the post match forums werent full of people defending cooper.
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:57pm
Capital said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Apologies RC
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:46pm
warrenexpatinnz said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Jerry I give you credit for posting very balanced views and you do your research and although I will always stay a one eyed Wallaby I stand corrected on some of the view points I have put forward today.
Bugger, sounds like I am conceding defeat in an argument with my dear wife. Almost time for a drink I think!
Good stuff Jerry.
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:26am
jeremy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:26am | Report comment
They scored the same number of points, how is this ‘outplayed’
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:54am
Jiggles said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Carter was woeful in that match, worst game since SR.
Cooper was very good. his kicking game and support play was the best its been at test level this year.
September 2nd 2011 @ 12:59pm
jeremy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
…which is more a reflection of the time and space they got to work with from forwards domination.
If we’re comparing game on game, Cooper had a worse game in Auckland than Carter had in Brisbane – while his kicking was suspect he didn’t panic when put under a lot of pressure.
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:15pm
Riccardo said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Agreed Jerry. Mercurial at S15 level maybe. Perhaps under Link he may be better at this level? Doubt it tho. This lashing out smacks of frustration to me. I’ve already warned the Wobblies on this site that unless he’s gettng good front foot ball he’s flaky and may dent the Wobblies chances @ RWC. Doesn’t matter tho mate. Sooner or later he’ll be at the bottom of an AB ruck. Then some “cheating” will occur altho I doubt anyone will see it…
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:34am
darwin stubby said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Just makes me pine for the era of Mark Shaw … if those blow in aussie fans who clearly have little appreciation for the game knew a little more they would be campaigning for a return to rucking rather than the endless dribble being trotted out about cheating
September 2nd 2011 @ 1:32pm
BennO said | September 2nd 2011 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Agreed DS but it also makes me pine for the days when the roar wasn’t filled with “Aussies this” and “Kiwis that.” the jingoistic whinging that is going on is remarkable. Accusations of cheating are coming from both sides of the ditch now and it’s a shame because it’s got to the point where the sensible discussions about actual rugby are a quaint thing of the past.
September 2nd 2011 @ 5:55pm
darwin stubby said | September 2nd 2011 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
here here …
September 2nd 2011 @ 7:46am
Fili S Tupua said | September 2nd 2011 @ 7:46am | Report comment
You couldn’t even compare the two … McCaw is in a league of his own, whereas Cooper is the biggest dreamer … a Kiwi-born boy who once admired the All Blacks, until he moved to … wait for it … here’s a clue … his first name consists of the letters in his own sorry mental ‘state’ … Queensland. And thus, he grew up with Aussie blood, hence his arrogance and utter petulance.
Put simply, Richie McCaw – Man/Legend vs Quade Cooper – Mouse/Wannabe.
Digby Ioane is another ‘traitor’. Try and compare any Kiwi-Samoan with this Samoan Aussie …get the picture ?
And I’m Samoan myself.
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:18am
CraigB said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:18am | Report comment
soa Samoan playing in Oz is a traitor but a Samoan playing in NZ is not????
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:21am
johnny-boy said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:21am | Report comment
pure 24 carat gold CraigB
September 2nd 2011 @ 8:37am
p.Tah said | September 2nd 2011 @ 8:37am | Report comment
LoL!
September 2nd 2011 @ 9:36am
katzilla said | September 2nd 2011 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Auckland is Samoa’s Capital city, maybe you need a lesson in Pacific Geography?
September 2nd 2011 @ 3:55pm
Chuck said | September 2nd 2011 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
I guess you never seen the Samoan Captains interview after their arrival at Auckland International Airport last night.
If not you should, approximately 2,000 fans turned up to sing and cheer their team.
I do believe Mahonris words were something along the lines about for them (Samoa) they are playing at home, not only will they get huge support from expats and NZ born Samoans but they will get massive support along with Tonga from the NZ public no doubt more so than any other team in the competition.
You quickly forget Auckland is the largest polynesain city in the wold.
September 2nd 2011 @ 10:06am
mike said | September 2nd 2011 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Nicely put Fili.
September 2nd 2011 @ 2:30pm
Funk said | September 2nd 2011 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
“Try and compare any Kiwi-Samoan with this Samoan Aussie …get the picture” No, not at all, wtf are you talking about?