The great GWS Giants myth
Roar Pro By Dixie, 13 Sep 2011 Dixie is a Roar Pro
- Tagged:
- AFL, GWS Giants, Kevin Sheedy, Phil Gould, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Tom Scully
101 Have your say
Related coverage
Phil Gould can stop his one-man, anti-AFL crusade and go back to bed. The GWS Giants are missing a key ingredient in their battle to compete in Greater Western Sydney. It’s Greater Western Sydney.
The business case, the brand, the model, the demographic, the investment; it was all starting to make sense.
But looking into it a little bit further; it’s a hoax, a myth.
Setting up camp in Blacktown, the most central of three key local districts, was the correct play, and in the Giants’ words, a key to their manta of becoming “part of the local community in Greater Western Sydney, working with key community partners and local football communities.”
But words are words, and the locations of both the new club’s home ground and residential base is an insult to the people expected to identify with their new heroes.
I understand the arguments against this.
The training bases of several Melbourne clubs have moved outside their constituencies. The South Sydney Rabbitohs play at Homebush. Many members of parliament, let alone footballers, live outside the areas they represent.
But these clubs (I’ll leave the political analysis for another day) have established their brands and fan bases to such an extent that their geographic association has expanded.
The AFL has invested in an expensive quarry and decided it’s not worth digging on.
What’s the point in establishing a team within a specific community when playing on the eastern boundary at Homebush will make them inaccessible to a large portion of their fan base?
The club’s residential and media base at Breakfast Point is the final straw.
A gated community to the east of their region, the Giants have been hypocritical in asking for the buy-in of the community it serves without committing themselves.
While I don’t expect Tom Scully to rent a ground-floor flat in Macarthur, Kevin Sheedy’s statement that “we were told 12 months ago, no one would want to come to Western Sydney” is prophetic.
It seems he and his club don’t want to be there either.
Recommend this story.
The Turkey 10
The Turkey 10 teams have now been selected, as Wild Turkey Bourbon's sport sponsorship kicks into the next exciting phase.
Choose which side you're going to support and get in the running to win $2,500!
Simply visit Wild Turkey Australia on Facebook for your chance to win.
Find out more.
- Explore:
- AFL, GWS Giants, Kevin Sheedy, Phil Gould, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Tom Scully
September 13th 2011 @ 6:36am
GoGWS said | September 13th 2011 @ 6:36am | Report comment
And what about the community work and football clinics they’re doing in local schools and local junior aussie rules clubs? And the community events they hold out at Blacktown? And NAB games at Blacktown? And work with migrant communities and muslim teams?….And yet you have a gripe that they play at Homebush or that they accommodate players at Breakfast Point?..that they are hypocritical and not committed locally?….please…Homebush/Breakfast Point are logically and strategically fine….what about giving credit where credit is due with the work GWS has done locally.. and in any event, Giants membership numbers seem to indicate there is some community support…and Homebush is accessible by the way – it’s on a train line…
Another good signing yesterday in Tom Scully…like GC, GWS will struggle initially on field but given their concessions they should be competitive ove the next five years..
September 13th 2011 @ 6:43am
Fake ex-AFL fan said | September 13th 2011 @ 6:43am | Report comment
Huh? If Homebush isn’t in Western Sydney, exactly where is it? The northern beaches? Western Sydney is a big, sprawling place, made up of several municipalities and without any clearly distinct boundaries. I lived in Dundas for a couple of years and some people there claimed to be westies, others said it was the north west, whilst some who lived five minutes drive away in Eastwood claimed they in fact lived in the northern suburbs. Which I guess helped their house prices but never really made sense to me given that you could catch a bus to Parra in about 15 minutes.
Wherever GWS set themsevels up, it was inevitable that critics would claim that wasn’t the ‘true’ western suburbs, because that title belongs to Parramatta / Penrith / Campbelltown etc. The fact is they’re located a long way from the SCG and are accessible to a very different set of potential fans.
September 13th 2011 @ 6:53am
PaddyBoy said | September 13th 2011 @ 6:53am | Report comment
It’s Granville!!! Oh wait I moved, it’s Parramatta. Used to be Penrith.
September 13th 2011 @ 9:41am
Tony said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:41am | Report comment
The NRL claims that it’s West Sydney heartland includes West Tigers & Canterbury B. Those 2 clubs are based out of West Sydney
September 13th 2011 @ 10:51am
Swan Boy said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:51am | Report comment
The NSW government pinpoints western sydney http://www.westernsydney.nsw.gov.au
September 13th 2011 @ 1:50pm
me, I like football said | September 13th 2011 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
anything west of Sydney city located in the metropolitan area of Sydney would be considered GREATER Western Sydney, wouldn’t it?
September 13th 2011 @ 2:26pm
Brendan said | September 13th 2011 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
Geographically considered to be from Parramatta onwards, you will be hard pressed getting anyone closer to the Sydney City CBD to openly admit they live in the west.
September 13th 2011 @ 2:37pm
Fake ex-AFL fan said | September 13th 2011 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
The fact that they don’t admit to living in the West doesn’t mean they don’t actually live there!
September 13th 2011 @ 4:15pm
Brendan said | September 13th 2011 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Very observant comment Fakey… but it also doesn’t make them any more likely to become a rusted on “western Sydney fan”. People buy into things that they like or want to be like; being a westie in Sydney isn’t one of those things for the majority.
But no doubt the Falafel crowd as Eddie everywhere put it will be magically spellbound by a sport that has been in Australia for 150+ years…
September 13th 2011 @ 11:30pm
Oberst Klink said | September 13th 2011 @ 11:30pm | Report comment
Well the AFL has pinpointed ‘Greater Western Sydney’. The AFL pays the bills, so it calls the shots I’m afraid.
September 14th 2011 @ 9:13am
Brendan said | September 14th 2011 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Calls the shots for whom? The people of Sydney or something else?
September 13th 2011 @ 7:38am
mds1970 said | September 13th 2011 @ 7:38am | Report comment
They think Wests Leagues is in Ashfield.
September 13th 2011 @ 8:22am
The Cattery said | September 13th 2011 @ 8:22am | Report comment
The GWS catchment is basically everything west of Ultimo, not just in the Sydney metropolitan area, but taking in most of NSW as well.
Take a careful look at the shape of the Giants logo.
September 13th 2011 @ 8:42am
brendan said | September 13th 2011 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Why cant we all be a bit more positive about Gws .The Sydney Swans started the national comp and have been a fantastic side to watch over the years so personally im looking forward to Gws playing and representing all the ”westies”.There must be so much untapped talent in that region and it would be fantastic if a few local boys made the grade and the Swans / Gws derby became a city of origin game .The westies versus the side with the harbour bridge on there jumper.
September 13th 2011 @ 9:46am
Fivehole said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Ahhh…that’d be the opera house i think you mean brendan
September 13th 2011 @ 9:04am
stabpass said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Cricket’s out: Coniglio primed to make Giant mark
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/crickets-out-coniglio-primed-to-make-giant-mark-20110912-1k62k.html
September 13th 2011 @ 9:06am
Lachlan said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:06am | Report comment
The cattery
What do you mean take a look at the shape of there logo?
–
Comment left via The Roar’s iPhone app. Download The Roar’s iPhone App in the App Store here.
September 13th 2011 @ 11:39am
The Cattery said | September 13th 2011 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Lachlan
the Giants logo, the “G”, is designed to look like NSW.
September 13th 2011 @ 11:40am
The Cattery said | September 13th 2011 @ 11:40am | Report comment
It’s as much a NSW team as it is a Western Sydney team.
September 13th 2011 @ 9:11am
AC said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:11am | Report comment
No Matter where it is its a Fraud. But a very well played out one. Look up front its not a problem for the GWS to setup shop in Sydney. My issue is that its going to be at the expense of the Swans. You diont hear anyone talk about them anymore in Sydney. Yes i know there was 121,000 watch on tv last week. The best figure for a long time. And thats good. But the GWS with all its hoopla and headlines has made the Swans back seat riders. Now as for the GWS and the antics they have come up with i feel it is cheap. Has it got attention of people – briefly. The media in Sydney is far more forgving and allows these type of things than the AFL centric stuff in Melbourne. Let the GWS setup where they want and let they play well. I hope they do very much so. But please stop the publicity stunts that go on and on. As far as the membership figures go etc and the number of kids playing ausckick etc – i know that i no longer have any faith in this hype. What ever happened to the “Football oops AUstralian Football” being the centre not all the other stuff. As far as bagging other codes i am not into that. I just cant take anymore of this lunancy of stunts that seem to be out of the pages of Gossip magazines. 2012 heres the best for the GWS on the field as for all the other stuff and stunts let them pass. People might take it more seriously if all the hype was toned down a bit.
September 13th 2011 @ 11:52am
Redb said | September 13th 2011 @ 11:52am | Report comment
No more a fraud than the MELBOURNE Storm created in Melbourne where rugby league did not even exist.
September 14th 2011 @ 6:58am
voodoo people said | September 14th 2011 @ 6:58am | Report comment
Or the Swans, Lions, Suns or Bears? How about the whole A League or Western Force, Melbourne Rebels? You really need to confront your obsession with RL.
The Giants are not really wanted by those it is proportedly there to represent. Talk has been of a 10-15k average, with 3 games in Canberra. Low crowds work for RL as it still gets huge ratings and support, yet the Giants will struggle to rate as well as the Swans.
September 13th 2011 @ 9:16am
Brendan said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:16am | Report comment
There is no such place as greater western Sydney… I’ve lived here all my life and will tell you that no one except people from outside NSW will identify with GWS as an area.
What people don’t comprehend about Sydney is that it’s broken up into quite distinct regions. People from Parramatta are a lot different than those from Blacktown & Penrith with no one wanting to be associated with the other…
Just ask someone from western Sydney “where does western Sydney start?” the answer is always the suburb after the one that they live in because no one wants to admit to living out west.
The GWS brand was broken before it was an sparkle in the eye of the AFL marketing machine…
September 13th 2011 @ 9:29am
GoGWS said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:29am | Report comment
What was the alternative? ..Call the team Blacktown?… OK yes the GWS is an unfamiliar construct but it’s OK for what it is – it’s intended to cover multiple areas just as ‘western bulldogs’ covers a diverse area for the former Footscray team…so there is form in the area, at least as far as the AFL goes..and fans are going to be more focussed on Giants name, colours and club song and not that worried about ‘GWS’ part of the brand….and memberships/sponsorships achieved at this stage hardly support your claim that the brand is broken…
September 13th 2011 @ 11:53am
PaddyBoy said | September 13th 2011 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Western Sydney would have been choice, lets you call the team the Wolves, which is a severely underused team name in Australia at the top level.
September 13th 2011 @ 12:41pm
Simmo said | September 13th 2011 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
What was the alternative?
should’ve just called them the Sydney Giants
September 14th 2011 @ 7:02am
voodoo people said | September 14th 2011 @ 7:02am | Report comment
The alternative would be to pick a specific name – They should have gone with Parramatta – its central, fairly neutral, transport and business hub.
GWS will just be derided, and by being an “everywhere” club it wil be a discard by all rather than embraced by some.
September 13th 2011 @ 9:44am
Tony said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:44am | Report comment
When I was living with a friend in Dulwich Hill 35 years ago he referred to Western Sydney as a growth area of over 1 mill people. It had an identity then.
September 13th 2011 @ 12:53pm
Brendan said | September 13th 2011 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
Sydney’s changed a little in 35 years…
September 13th 2011 @ 10:16am
Redb said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:16am | Report comment
They’ll push the Giants brand much more.
September 13th 2011 @ 12:58pm
Brendan said | September 13th 2011 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
I’m sure they will push it more than GWS, it ties into the battler psyche of a Sydney westie, and good luck to them.
A question; do you think the gloss has worn of the GWS ‘buzz’? This week they signed arguably the highest profile & most controversial player in Tom Scully and there was hardly a mention in the Sydney media!
September 13th 2011 @ 1:33pm
Redb said | September 13th 2011 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
The reverse happens in Melbourne when a Storm or Rebels player is signed they’re hardly known in Melbourne but are known to followers of the code and get little press.
This is perhaps the genius of signing Folau – there was mass publicity and opportunity to get the GWS Giants name out there in the Sydney market where he is better known.
Re Tim Scully – he is in fact not that higher a profile, he’s 20, still unproven but with great potential (no.1 draft pick). He’s no Garry Ablett. Its a bigger story in Melbourne due to the Demons loss than GWS gain if you know what I mean.
GWS so far lack a ‘Ablett’ type signing.
September 13th 2011 @ 2:31pm
Brendan said | September 13th 2011 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
So thats my point Redb, it was great publicity at first but now the ‘buzz’ has died down its back to business as usual with aussie rules in Sydney.
September 14th 2011 @ 2:37am
The_Wookie said | September 14th 2011 @ 2:37am | Report comment
until he actually lines up in an AFL match.
September 13th 2011 @ 3:38pm
Whites said | September 13th 2011 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
Is it Tom or Tim?
September 14th 2011 @ 9:14am
Brendan said | September 14th 2011 @ 9:14am | Report comment
And then after that Wookie? Back to normal again, just like Hunt.
September 15th 2011 @ 1:27pm
The_Wookie said | September 15th 2011 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
and then he kicks his first goal and causes Phil gould to lose his marbles on national tv again
September 22nd 2011 @ 9:13am
Phil said | September 22nd 2011 @ 9:13am | Report comment
There may be no area referred to as “greater Western Sydney”, that is true. But the concept of “Western Sydney” definitely exists.
“Just ask someone from western Sydney “where does western Sydney start?” the answer is always the suburb after the one that they live in because no one wants to admit to living out west.”
Rubbish. Maybe for some of the snobs in the inner suburbs, but not for the people in GWS heartland. If you’re too shame to admit you live in Mt Druitt or Macquarie Fields or St Mary’s, then sorry, you don’t belong in Western Sydney.
I am proud to call myself a westie; I have been a wests fan in the ARL/NRL since I was 7 years old growing up in Macquarie Fields, and still love them. But when I lived in Mt Druitt as a teenager, I realised that none of the existing NRL teams adequately represented Blacktown and surrounding areas, which is the true heartland of rugby league. Fans were split between Penrith, Wests, Parramatta and occasionally Bulldogs, with a smattering of other clubs such as Warriors and Rabbitohs. None of the clubs that fans followed were making any effort to establish a presence in the Blacktown, and especially Mt Druitt/Rooty Hill, region, or to be a part of that community. That is why the Giants will work. They are going to a great amount of effort to establish them in the true heartland of western Sydney, an area the NRL has ignored for a long time. They are injecting money into the local economy and local facilities in the community, and it will pay dividends for them in the long term.
September 13th 2011 @ 9:36am
Mark Young said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:36am | Report comment
GWS’s will have no issues at all.
They are going to get plenty of support from the game and the fans (be there 5 thousand or 40 thousand at each game) will get a great AFL team.
The people being screwed are the actual AFL fans who are sending all their money, best players and premierships up the Hume to prop up a team that in twenty years will still the AFL team with the least amount of support in the country.
Think about it, Melbourne has the country’s most passionate sports fans.
For the past 6 years, Melbourne has had the best team in the NRL.
They are stil at the very bottom of crowds, tv audiences and interest in the sport.
GWS will be exactly the same.
September 13th 2011 @ 9:53am
GoGWS said | September 13th 2011 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Mate what’s wrong with dreaming big? The GWS region has the population of Perth and Adelaide combined…Perth/Adelaide support 4 teams so why not drop one team in Blacktown and see what happens…it’s a gutsy play…the AFL has very successful teams in RL territory already (swans/lions) so worth having a crack with two more teams.
September 13th 2011 @ 10:25am
Mark Young said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Hi GoGWS, Nothing wrong with big dreams at all. And yes there a lot of people in Western Sydney.
I agree it is a gutsy call, and I think it is going to screw the AFL fans of Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide out of their money, their players and their premierships to create a team that will, in twenty years, still be the least supported team in the competition.
But fabulous for you as one of their fans.
September 13th 2011 @ 10:53am
GoGWS said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:53am | Report comment
maybe… but maybe it won’t be the least supported…and as for screwing AFL fans in Melbourne – well Melbourne VFL clubs skimmed the cream of talent off the WAFL, SANFL and other leagues like Tassie for decades…. and they did it with impunity…so I find it a little amusing that some of the so called traditionalists from Vic squeal about GC and GWS skimming talent…hello!!…are they aware of how many WA and SA players were running arounf in Vic teams in the 70s and 80s….
on a long term view supporting GWS and GC makes sense…we’ll see more and more kids coming through from these areas over time…
September 13th 2011 @ 10:49am
Swan Boy said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:49am | Report comment
I think that’s the point. Theyve done all this work in and around Blacktown, yet will play away from there. Theyre spending 60 mil upgrading Homebush, put that into Blacktown and give themselves half a chance
September 13th 2011 @ 10:04am
stabpass said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:04am | Report comment
I would argue that the AFL is in pretty good financial shape, and can, and indeed should fund GWS and GC, many Australian football fans, can see the many positives that may transpire, and growing the game, means the pool of potential players will deepen.
I dont agree that the AFL partly funding GWS is screwing WA, SA VIC fans out of their money, and if the propostion was put to them, that $1 out of every ticket they bought was sent to develop football in NSW, i dont think the vast majority would have a problem.
September 13th 2011 @ 10:28am
Mark Young said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Gday Stabpass.
I’m sure they wouldn’t mind sending a dolalr from every ticket up the road, how many premierships would they be happy to forgoe?
They gave three to Brisbane and they are still one of the least popular teams in the AFL.
September 13th 2011 @ 10:35am
stabpass said | September 13th 2011 @ 10:35am | Report comment
It’s a hard one, a medium ground must be found, that does not compromise the competition, yet gives the new club a realistic chance of winning some games, and building for the future.
Everyone is going to have a different take, but from what i see, it’s still pretty hard to win a flag, even with a lot of concessions.
Aside from player concessions, high draft picks, luring players away with big $$$, rugby league converts, positive club culture by far is the biggest and hardest ingredient to get right.
September 13th 2011 @ 1:44pm
Redb said | September 13th 2011 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
There are many many footy fans who would prefer the VFL stayed the VFL, although less these days.
So go back to 1987 when the Eagles & Crows were introduced, it always creates angst. Both the Eagles & Crows were given massive player zones in their respective states outside the draft.
September 13th 2011 @ 3:56pm
Mark Young said | September 13th 2011 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
Hi Redb
The difference here is that the Eagles and Crows both came from areas where people cared about AFL.
This is a bit different as the Giants are heading to an area with no great history of interest in the AFL.
It could work, and if it does, will change the ladscape of sport in Australia forever.
Equally, it could cause enormous damage to your sport.
And the risk is being carried entirely by the fans in VIC, SA and WA. they are the ones who are going to prop them up financially, they will send their best players up the Hume, and they are the ones who will be watching GWS winning their Premierships.
September 15th 2011 @ 1:31pm
The_Wookie said | September 15th 2011 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
not really, the VFL muscled its way into an area where people KNEW of the VFL, may have occasionally followed the VFL, but where the SANFL and WAFL were every bit as strong in their regions as the NRL is now. Its quite amazing to me how fast those leagues dropped in public significance when the vfl/afl teams were created