Deans’ latest selections are too little, too late
Roar Rookie By chloe, 5 Oct 2011 chloe is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- David Pocock, Frans Steyn, Lachie Turner, Matt Hodgson, robbie deans, Rugby Union, Rugby World Cup 2011, wallabies
With the Wallabies preparing to take on South Africa this week in the first of the knock-out stages of the World Cup, two new faces have joined the squad – Matt Hodgson and Lachie Turner – with the Waratahs duo, Drew Mitchell and Wycliff Palu, being forced to return home because of hamstring injuries.
But with David Pocock the only initial open-side flanker in the squad of thirty, his backup may have come a few weeks too late, and at a large cost.
Before the Ireland game, the Wallabies staff was faced with the fact that Pocock is only human, and gets injured too.
He was pulled out of the game with a back injury and Ben McCalman, who has spent most of his rugby career at number 6 or 8, had to start in Pocock’s position of 7.
McCalman was hardly seen at the breakdowns, where Pocock would usually be causing turnovers or forcing the other team into penalties and this wasn’t the only factor towards the loss to Ireland but it sure didn’t help.
Pocock is now fit, so Hodgson is expected to sit on the sidelines anyway and for the game they needed him, he wasn’t there.
Many still question the selection of Hodgson over veteran Phil Waugh and also Beau Robinson who were both in red-hot form during the Super Rugby season this year.
Waugh also played a big role in his club team, Sydney Uni into making the Grand Final.
The loss to Ireland set up a do-or-die quarter-final against South Africa, the now-ranked number two team in the world, instead of a quarter-final against Wales, ranked only at six.
The Springboks, even without sharpshooting Frans Steyn, who can kick penalties from anywhere within 60 metres, look a big chance to end the Australia’s World Cup two weeks earlier than originally expected.
The injury news coming out of the Wallabies camp is improving though, with Pat McCabe, Kurley Beale and Digby Ioane all expected to be up for selection this week.
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October 5th 2011 @ 9:01am
Big Boppa said | October 5th 2011 @ 9:01am | Report comment
The injured players that were waited for have crapped out – the replacements should have been bought in two weeks ago to assimilate, Pocock has missed slabs of each Super season so far through injury so a replacement was obviously required – Does it have to be this hard – Now they are talking about persisting with Mccabe at 12 – stubborn come to mind – hope we are not lamenting this time next week. If you go in ranked 2nd (which we all patted ourselves on the back about) then not making the final is a serious shortfall
October 5th 2011 @ 9:20am
formeropenside said | October 5th 2011 @ 9:20am | Report comment
There should have been a second openside in the squad ahead of McCalman (or Palu, who was realistically never going to come good).
Horne (and perhaps McCabe) should have been sent home (or better yet, never been picked), and Tapuai brought over, so that an injured Mitchell did not have to play v Russia: and voila that was not done and now Mitchell is gone. I dont like Mitchell but he was actually looking good before the injury.
Hodgson and Turner are not the answers, but its better than not having anyone at all.
October 5th 2011 @ 1:40pm
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | October 5th 2011 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
You don’t like Mitchell? How’s that?
He was on fire before the ankle injury against the Reds, has worked his butt off to get back to full fitness, gained selection and was beginning to regain some pretty impressive form, he never shirks the hard yards and is a bloody good finisher. Apart from that he strikes me as ‘the team first’ type of guy and we need more of those. What’s not to like?
And personally I thought it was a good idea to have him play against Russia. Besides if not him then who? It allowed him to develop much needed match fitness. Yes he was injured but in fairness it is Rugby & you need these guys playing games.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:46pm
formeropenside said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
He’s an apostate Queenslander who now plays for the Tahs. Why would I like him?
Still, I would have been hoping he’d be fit to either keep JOC on the bench or sit the bench himself. Mitchell is certainly a better player than Turner.
October 5th 2011 @ 6:13pm
mikeylives said | October 5th 2011 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
Ummm… Mitchell is a freak of a player and a pretty good bloke by all accounts. Diddums that he grew up in Qld – he was playing for the wallabies.
Big loss for the wallabies. He looked to have his pace and confidence back. Hope he is back to his best next year and doesn’t let his bad luck this season get him down.
Time to step up Lachie – you’ve worked hard enough.
October 5th 2011 @ 6:17pm
Mike said | October 5th 2011 @ 6:17pm | Report comment
But what about him being apostate (and presumably, a heretic into the bargain)? The Martin Luther of rugby, apparently!
Seriously, I agree that Turner has worked pretty hard and deserves a go.
October 5th 2011 @ 9:35am
sheek said | October 5th 2011 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But it doesn’t help us in the present situation.
Some of the players selected who out injured for a long time was justified – Barnes, Mitchell, Slipper, Polotau-Nau. Horne & Palu were always very iffy. Mitchell’s new injury was just bad luck.
I also felt Deans was justified selecting only one original openside, since none of the other candidates had done enough to earn selection. Forget Waugh, he’s yesterday’s hero.
It’s all very well to use hindsight & say it was a dumb decision not to select a backup openside.
Also, we need to separate Pocock’s injury (& no openside cover) from the many other reasons why the Wallabies lost to Ireland. There’s more people than the coach who need to accept responsibility for the defeat.
There are 22 players in a squad, including 15 run-on players. Many of them went “missing” against Ireland for whatever reasons.
Cooper tried to make the winning play on every pass, which is hardly clever rugby. Genia lost his cool, which is not what you want form a future leader. The forwards were outmuscled & out-enthused at the breakdown. Across the team, they were out-thought & outsmarted.
It’s not just the coach, who everyone is quick to blame, but the players themselves.
Having said that, persisting with McCabe at #12 ahead of Barnes (if it happens) would make no sense to me at all. But then, if we lose to the Boks, it won’t be because of this one decision. The whole teams needs to lift their capacity to match their ability.
At present they’re just fluffing around…..
October 5th 2011 @ 9:41am
formeropenside said | October 5th 2011 @ 9:41am | Report comment
sheek – read this and tell me Mitchell was just bad luck rather than poor man management brought on by having no fit backs:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/deja-drew-hops-home-after-injury-strips-winger-of-cup-final-dream-20111003-1l5d5.html
October 5th 2011 @ 9:51am
sheek said | October 5th 2011 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Well Fossie,
When I said “bad luck”, I was attempting to make a clear separation between his previous ankle break & current hamstring tear. Obviously, for Mitchell personally, it’s a crushing blow.
But unlike Palu, his new injury was entirely different to the injury that kept him out for most of the season.
I don’t know how you can blame the coaching staff for Mitchell’s injury. These things happen, especially to fleet-footed backs. Mitchell was playing his 2nd run-on game, & 3rd including one off the bench. How is this the coaching staff’s fault?????
And how were the injuries to Ioane, A.Fainga’a, McCabe, O’Connor, Beale & Horne all attributed to the coaching staff also?????
Is Robbie Deans the new bogey-man, responsible for every single pestilence that is afflicted upon us…..?????
October 5th 2011 @ 10:42am
formeropenside said | October 5th 2011 @ 10:42am | Report comment
No, my point is that if the injured players had been replaced – why keep Horne for a semi- we may not make – then Mitchell’s back injury might – dare I say should – have allowed him to have been rested, which was not really an option with the fit cattle we had.
I think Deans poor selections are obvious and have been obvious since they were made.
Oh, and picking Horne in the first place when he breaks if you sneeze on him was also kinda silly.
October 5th 2011 @ 11:45am
Cattledog said | October 5th 2011 @ 11:45am | Report comment
In the overall wash up come Sunday, I think there will be much to be said about selection of injured players and not giving those who showed outstanding form during a season a fair go (Beau Robinson and Ben Tapuai).
I also think that there must be questions asked about Dean’s use of the bench and selections throughout this tournament. It must also be questioned as to why Dean’s was extended when probably the most important KPI was not completed.
We blame Deans but perhaps it’s the ARU that needs to be brought to task on this.
October 5th 2011 @ 9:18pm
katzilla said | October 5th 2011 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
‘I think there will be much to be said about selection of injured players and not giving those who showed outstanding form during a season a fair go (Beau Robinson and Ben Tapuai)’
Hmmm Deans has never done that before in a World Cup, given spots to his preferences rather then the form players.
Ah well, I guess you guys will be first to learn that lesson………..
October 5th 2011 @ 9:52pm
Mike said | October 5th 2011 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
That’s okay, neither has Henry or any of the other coaches. Never at all…
October 5th 2011 @ 10:42am
johnny-boy said | October 5th 2011 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Yes Sheek of course he is
. No, even I would concede he isnt but he doesnt seem to be trying to help !. Leaving Robinson out was criminal in my opinion after the form he showed during the year. He did so much for the Reds this year it wasnt funny. I thought Tapaui was too young for the world cup initially but when injuries popped up he should have been there. I just hope Hodgson and Turner get inspired to make some serious impact if and when they come on rather than just be ‘participants’.
October 5th 2011 @ 11:05am
Stin said | October 5th 2011 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Mitchell’s injury wasn’t just bad luck. His left leg was compensating for his recovering right. Agree, we should have been in a position to rest him for Russia.
October 5th 2011 @ 12:09pm
Justin said | October 5th 2011 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Sheek it wasn’t hindsight at all for alot of this. There was a high level of discontent with the non selection of a back up 7. Granted that wasn’t the only reason we lost to Ireland but it was a factor. We have 22 players on match in name only – the bench has been consistently under utilized and too much is expected to be dine by the first 15. That is amateur coaching and quite frankly unacceptable. Major questions need to be asked.
I agree sine of the players have been unfortunate with injury but the selectors took major risks on players clearly not match fit. Barnes was probably the only who had played enough of that group. How a novice 12 was ever included is astounding. The list goes on…
Like you I think we need a thorough review of the ARU but that is irrelevant in the here and now. This group is not being given every chance to reach it’s potential. Like it or not they are the facts
October 5th 2011 @ 2:17pm
sph45 said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
I’m curious about the selection of McCabe at 12 ahead of Barnes. Morne Steyn is a notoriously terrible defender in the 10 channel. Is there an argument for playing the bigger and direct running McCabe to exploit this weakness?
I’d prefer Barnes because he can pass and finds holes with his passes, he can kick (although a bit too often I think), he is a foil for Cooper and is not as predictable as McCabe, and he takes the pressure off Cooper and provides more options for backline plays, etc. Have I just answered my own question?
Curious to hear what others think…
October 7th 2011 @ 1:11am
Touko said | October 7th 2011 @ 1:11am | Report comment
I think pretty much everybody thinks the same way you do, except the journalists and by their accounts the WB selectors.
I’m hoping Deans and co are just foxing.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:21pm
Mike said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Excellent post Sheek.
Especially this bit:
“Also, we need to separate Pocock’s injury (& no openside cover) from the many other reasons why the Wallabies lost to Ireland. There’s more people than the coach who need to accept responsibility for the defeat.
There are 22 players in a squad, including 15 run-on players. Many of them went “missing” against Ireland for whatever reasons.”
Many people seem to get obsessed with the idea that individual selections can make the difference between glory and disaster (kiwi fans if anything are worse at this than wallaby fans). In some cases that might be true – but RWC being lost because Hodgson was chosen instead of Robinson…?? That’s a bit rich.
October 5th 2011 @ 7:28pm
Big Boppa said | October 5th 2011 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
…since none of the other opensides had done enough to earn selection” so lets play McCalman who does not even play there for two test matches instead – great logic Sheek – On the basis on the basis of earning selection what about Maafu, Palu, Horne, Phipps etc – some of these guys haven’t played two game sin a row for two seasons
October 6th 2011 @ 4:19am
Ben S said | October 6th 2011 @ 4:19am | Report comment
It was always a dumb decision not to bring a back-up 7, sheek. England didn’t bring Hendre Fourie, but they did bring Haskell, a man who has played quite a bit of rugby at 7, likewise Thomson for NZ. SA brought Louw as an alternative to Brussow. Ireland brought Jennings. Scotland brought Rennie, and France brought Ouedraogo. Relying on a cumbersome number 8 who also sometimes plays lock was utterly ridiculous.
October 7th 2011 @ 1:16am
Touko said | October 7th 2011 @ 1:16am | Report comment
Hear, hear! Excellent post.
The only thing I’d add is that the decision not to take an extra open side was clearly a calculated gamble. The one match so far you wouldn’t have wanted Pocock to miss was against Ireland. Any other match would have been fine.
Unfortunately the gamble was a disaster, but as you say Sheek, it was just one of about 16 places (including the ref) where we weren’t quite good enough.
October 5th 2011 @ 10:56am
jameswm said | October 5th 2011 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Here’s a comment on Mitchell’s injury.
The levels of sports science in AFL are incredible. After every game, some clubs scan the muscles of all their players, to check for issues. For example, Mitchell surely had a minor problem with his hammy which would have shown up in the scan, and if known, they’d know he was susceoptible to a hamstring injury.
Surely the ARU can match what a single AFL club does? The AFL are ahead in terms of physical and injury management, and dare I say fitness.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:24pm
Mike said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
Jameswm,
You might be placing too much faith in science. Dan Carter claims he had absolutely no hint of what was coming when his tendon went the other day.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:32pm
jameswm said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Sure, but maybe (most likely) they hadn’t been doing scans on him.
If they had, they might have picked up a minor tear which he couldn’t feel yet, making him susceptible to that injury.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:35pm
Jerry said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
The doctor said there was no evidence of any prior damage or significant wear.
October 6th 2011 @ 4:02am
Pot Hale said | October 6th 2011 @ 4:02am | Report comment
If there had been, would he have said so?
October 5th 2011 @ 3:00pm
cookee said | October 5th 2011 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
any player under as much stress as carter was to perform for country ;that stress moves from mental to somatic problems in many instances;tight body equals muscular stressors.not a revelation to professional staff.
October 5th 2011 @ 6:19pm
jeremy said | October 5th 2011 @ 6:19pm | Report comment
any player under as much stress as carter was to perform for country ;
Really? You’re projecting assumptions onto a freak injury…and diminishing a player who’s an absolute champion, totally unflustered on the field and with a reputation of being calm, cool and collected on and off the field…
Was Mitchell’s hamstring a pressure injury? Francois Steyn’s shoulder injury? Pocock’s tight back? Or is it just Carter? Groin injuries are very common in kickers, here’s a list of #10s who’ve been sidelined with groin injury before – Steven Larkham (out for 6 weeks), Matt Giteau (out for 4 weeks), Gordon Darcy (out for 7 weeks), Andrew Merthens (ongoing problems). How many of these were caused by ‘stress’ as you call it…
October 5th 2011 @ 11:05am
james b said | October 5th 2011 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Phil Waugh in “Red Hot” form, you must have been watching replay of 2002..
October 5th 2011 @ 11:11am
Phil said | October 5th 2011 @ 11:11am | Report comment
And to add to your comment James, Phil Waugh played the last third of the games for Uni in the GF they lost.
If he can’t make the Uni 1st XV, then how can he make the Wallabies.
October 5th 2011 @ 11:26am
chloe said | October 5th 2011 @ 11:26am | Report comment
haha! True, I’ve only been following rugby this year (as may be noticeable with my lack of knowledge in some areas) but I just liked the way he played this year and thought he’d be better than no one.. but yeah, good point.
October 5th 2011 @ 4:54pm
Pillock said | October 5th 2011 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
2002, absolute cracker of a line.
If Pocock is injured Australia will get dusted no matter who they replace him with.
October 5th 2011 @ 11:55am
johnny-boy said | October 5th 2011 @ 11:55am | Report comment
What will be interesting will be whether Wayne Bennett will get involved now. There was talk of such prior to the Cup. Now would be a pretty good time I would suggest. Someone who can install that self belief in the players and there aren’t too many better at it.
October 5th 2011 @ 1:04pm
Cameron Larkin said | October 5th 2011 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Good read … check my article out http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/10/05/2011-rugby-world-cup-quarterfinals-preview/ – the qtr finals preview.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:12pm
Paul Brock said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
I’ve got to laugh at the short memories of Australian rugby fans. After Australia lost to Samoa earlier in the season, Hodgson was rightly criticised for playing very poorly. He basically confirmed in that game that he’s not up to international standard. Now, all of a sudden he’s the saviour of the wallabies after we lose one game to Ireland.
I’m not really sure what difference people think Hodgson would have made in that Ireland game. For mine, unless he can play tight-head prop and hold up a scrum better than Ben Alexander, I don’t think he would have made too much of a difference.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:43pm
Mike said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Paul Brock – Just curious, who on this thread has suggested (or even hinted) that Hodgson is “the saviour of the Wallabies”?
The article argues that he shouldn’t have been picked, whereas a number of posters argue that it was a reasonable selection because of a lack of noticeably better alternatives.
October 5th 2011 @ 2:50pm
Marc David said | October 5th 2011 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
I was a Deans fan now i’m a critic. Quicker we get Mckenzie in the better.
Poor mismanagement of the Wallabies. Poor selections and poor tactics.
Horne never did anything for us, even last year. He has had enough opportunities.
Hodgson proved against Samoa he’s neither a 7 nor 8 of world class. George Smith or Phil Waugh should have been picked. Isn’t George Smith over there at the moment playing for some second string team?
Mcabe only offers defence.
All the injured players came back underdone, fat and out of shape – TPN, Mitchell, Palu
It’s Quarter Final time and he’s still chop changing/deciding on his best team. He should have picked his best team for the Samoa game and given them time to play together. What a joke.
October 5th 2011 @ 8:02pm
taylorbridge said | October 5th 2011 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
So very true. And whilst were examining wounds why do we persist with Rocky Elsom. Higginbotham is simply the player now that Rocky was 4 years ago. We all fade away and Rocky is fading fast. Deans , even if we win is not the coach we all thought he was. I thought after tyhe Iraq invasion that I was past having the wool pulled over my eyes. Robbie Deans may be a good coach but he sure is not a great coach
October 5th 2011 @ 3:03pm
johnny-boy said | October 5th 2011 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
The players have said in the past they like working with Deans and respect him. Well we will soon see this weekend whether or not that is just platitudes or true because if they just ‘fluff around’ as Sheek quite accurately described thier play at times then clearly they don’t. Not when it is crunch time.
October 5th 2011 @ 7:32pm
Big Boppa said | October 5th 2011 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
JB – please quote which players actually said that – JON says the players say it but I have never actually seen a player except Pocock and O’Conner who he gave them their first starts – Happy to see any quote from anywhere – two players are not the team btw
October 5th 2011 @ 7:54pm
johnny-boy said | October 5th 2011 @ 7:54pm | Report comment
BB – I’m going on memory of what I have read and seen on television interviews. I can’t quote exact date, times and players. I’m not wallaby jerry (and I wouldnt want to be any more obnoxious
)