‘We can rest in peace’, says RWC-winning coach, Graham Henry
By Spiro Zavos, 24 Oct 2011 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
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This was a memorable Rugby World Cup final. It was a titanic battle with both sides playing with power and passion. It was unbelievably tense. And in the last half hour, the game wobbled over the abyss for the All Blacks after Thierry Dusautoir scored under the posts to take the score to 8 – 7 to the All Blacks.
Would France score the upset of all upsets and the All Blacks add another chapter to the chronicles of the choke?
The Dusaitoir try came from consecutive errors by Ma’a Nonu and Piri Weepu.
Weepu had missed 11 points in the first half. Aaron Cruden, the replacement for Dan Carter, was off injured. The momentum of the match was inexorably towards France. Now coach Graham Henry was forced to make a fateful set of decisions.
Would he allow the team that was sinking to scramble its way out of the depths? Or would he bring on replacements in the hope that somehow the new players would lift the team, its spirit and its energy levels?
These are the moments when coaches earn their money and, in the case of the All Blacks coach Graham Henry, a place as an immortal in the annals of New Zealand. He reacted positively.
On trotted Andrew Hore, Ali Williams and Andy Ellis. These three players helped to turn the tide.
In the 70th minute through to the 74th minute France put on a 14 phase attack as they marched relentlessly forward to set up a drop goal or a penalty. The All Blacks forced a scrum. Then they forced a turnover. They took play into France’s half.
They smashed, drove and bull-dozed their way as the minutes and second counted down.
Then a penalty was won.
Hore had to find his jumper to ensure the closing out of the match. Could he do it? The French lineout was strong and combative all match. Hore fired his throw to the old man of the All Blacks, Brad Thorn.
Thorn’s last play as an All Black was to make the catch. It was a case of a big match player (who was three years older than the excellent South African referee Craig Joubert) delivering his last big play.
In the end the All Blacks were down to their number four five-eighths, Stephen Donald. Two weeks ago, he was white-bait fishing and preparing and getting fit to start in a couple of weeks for his new club in England, Bath.
And here another decision by coach Henry was decisive.
It was Donald who was given the penalty shot not long after half-time that would, if successful, take the All Blacks into an 8-point comfortable lead (in the context of a match that was all about defence).
It is safe to say that Donald is not a favourite player of the New Zealand rugby public.
He is still remembered for his horrendous play in the final 10 minutes of the Australia-New Zealand Test at Hong Kong last year. Donald’s inept and brain-dead play single-handedly allowed the Wallabies to snatch a sensational victory.
Before the 2011 RWC tournament started, if someone had told New Zealanders that Stephen Donald was going to be one of the heroes of the All Blacks final victory, that person would have been shouted down with cries of “No way, it could never happen.”
As it happened, it did happen.
Donald marched up to the mark for the crucial penalty shot. He lined it up. You could see his lips moving with a mantra, perhaps: “head down, kick through the ball”. The kick was a solid one. It deviated slightly from the straight line. But not enough to take the ball outside the line of the posts.
I was on a radio panel on Sunday morning. At its end, we were asked to predict the result. The convener refused to allow me my usual escape of saying “that’s what we have the match to find out”, so I went along with my fellow panelist that it would be a “12 to 18 point victory to the All Blacks”.
But I did point out that if any team could defeat the All Blacks in the RWC 2011 tournament, that team would be France.
Why?
Because they had the all-field game that could challenge the All Blacks (if France was on song) in every aspect of the play. Their pack was much superior to, say, the Wallabies pack.
Their backs, too, were much superior in skills and speed than, say, the Springboks and England, particularly, two sides with strong forward packs.
Throughout the tournament the French backs had under-played their game, scoring 15 tries to the 39 by the All Blacks going into the final.
But there has never been a French backline that is not comfortable with the ball in hand. And, in the final, this truism was realised. France surprised and disconcerted the All Blacks by often spreading the ball and frequently running the ball from the back.
As the cliche goes with France, it “depends which team turns up to play”. The team that played so splendidly in the final was up for the match, tactically and mentally.
You got a sense of this from the new method that was used to confront the All Blacks fearsome, throat-slitting Kapu O Pango haka.
As the All Blacks started their chanting and thigh slapping the French set themselves in a big V for Victory formation. The formation then moved forward into a straight line on the half-way mark (defying the IRB protocol, kept by the All Blacks, of teams having to stay behind their own 10m marks during hakas and war dances).
Then the straight line moved again into the V formation.
This was a brilliant response. It seemed to surprise and possibly unsettle the All Blacks.
I thought that the haka did not have the intensity of the haka produced before the match against the Wallabies. And it just may have been true that in their heart of hearts they believed that their real final had been played in the semi-final.
In the celebrations after the final whistle, Henry told the crowd, television viewers and radio listeners that “we can rest in peace”.
It was a concession that not winning a RWC tournament after winning the first 1987 was beginning to eat away at the New Zealand psyche. Henry is widely tipped to be honoured with a knighthood by a grateful Prime Minister John Key, who is facing his own test in a general election in November.
Another candidate for a knighthood, but probably when he retires, is Richie McCaw.
He played a mighty match, even though his foot is more badly injured than he was prepared to admit at any time in the tournament. With about 6 minutes of time left in the match, and with the All Blacks struggling to contain a relentless French side that believed it could snatch a victory, McCaw went down injured.
There was concern about whether he could continue.
I was listening to a radio commentary at the time. The broadcaster was virtually begging McCaw not to continue playing as he looked seriously injured. Then there was a huge explosion of roaring applause. McCaw was on his feet and gingerly taking his place in the scrum.
In the last minutes, when the All Blacks made their final driving onslaught, it was McCaw who lead the charges. This was a triumph of leadership and guts and toughness, and a reason why he is now ranked with the legendary Colin Meads as the greatest of the All Blacks in modern times.
Asked about the game and the result, McCaw showed his intelligence and balance: “At some stage, some All Black team was going to do”.
There is a fearsome prospect in store for all the other major rugby nations in World Cup tournaments to come, starting with RWC 2015 in England. It was 24 years ago that the All Blacks had previously won a World Cup.
The team is often called ‘the Brazil of world rugby,’ which is a tribute to a great football side and a great rugby side.
A Roar reader pointed out to me earlier in the year that Brazil went 24 years between winning Football World Cups in the 1950s and then in the 1980s. Will a similar pattern of victories play itself out for the All Blacks now that they have re-set the cycle of victories?
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
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October 24th 2011 @ 2:23am
mactheblack said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:23am | Report comment
There are too many who don’t want to see All Blacks secure the William Webb Ellis. It’s not about one hard match, where the No 1 team in world rugby showed why they are a champion team … it took four long years to get to the summit … they were not going to be denied.
Can anyone help it if France missed a crucial penalty; and now you blame the ref? Their try came off an unfortunate ABs mistake as well. The ABs have never been about sour grapes win or lose … a very professional outfit in every respect. Craig Joubert blew his usual high standards .. and no matter how anyone wants to look at it; and almost want to deny the ABs what is deservedly theirs … the scoreline read All Blacks 8 France 7. The French weren’t that brilliant ..they were all about defence anyhow. There WC record reads played 7 won:4. They don’t deserve the trophy … due to their rocky road to the final.
October 24th 2011 @ 5:53am
Krash said | October 24th 2011 @ 5:53am | Report comment
The French weren’t that good? Then how do you judge the last quarter of that game? Was it luck that saw France dominate pretty much everything in that period? Come on dude, you gotta give France their credit…
October 24th 2011 @ 7:03am
TowerofStrength said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:03am | Report comment
credit yes they played out of their skins but didnt have that extra 1% against the knackered ABs when they needed it most.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:01am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Agree, I think the French played the best game of the tournament. They came agonisingly close.
October 24th 2011 @ 9:18am
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:18am | Report comment
I agree, and its a bit of an indictment on Australia that we didn’t come close to matching that standard.
France gave us a lesson in several aspects of the game.
October 24th 2011 @ 10:41am
Cattledog said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:41am | Report comment
I’m glad I wasn’t around any AB gathering. I think it would have smelt pretty foul during those last 20 minutes or so…lol
October 24th 2011 @ 11:50am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 11:50am | Report comment
Lots and lots of tension where I was – *right up* to the last minute – but god, such a sweet feeling when the final whistle blew, then absolutely gutted that we couldn’t be at the match or at least in New Zealand. This is the first time I’ve been truly homesick whilst living in Australia – missed the biggest party of the decade!
October 24th 2011 @ 1:51pm
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
Mike
Line breaking centres, tight five who compete, contesting 50/50 ball, following through on kicks, and a fearless running game.
And excellent performances for Dusautoir and Rougerie
October 24th 2011 @ 7:06am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Mate.. it sounds as though the only one with sour grapes here is you…? Don’t know why because your team has just been crowned champs. Well done to them too. But denying the French credit for their try… c’mon buddy (the same could be said about Woodcocks try if you wanted to, lack of concentration by the French forwards for a second..?… I’m not saying it… but someone could, and if you looked at both tries the more marked mistake seemed to be the french forwards in Woodcocks opposed to Nonu in Dusatoirs try….?) Just think about it. Look through the same window but from the other side of the glass and the picture might become clearer. To me it appears as though the All Blacks defended a lot more than the French too… the stats say this too so you’re confusing me here with your point?
Joubert was superb tonight as I mentioned in a below post. And I’m a neutral so you see the game from both sides and he controlled the game well and 95% of the calls went the right way.
Anyway, Enjoy your party and the feeling of your team being crowned World Champs. It’s a good feeling
October 24th 2011 @ 7:31am
TowerofStrength said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:31am | Report comment
it wasnt lack of concentration it would have scored against ANY of the other top teams.
Like Woody said it was a rehearsed move and one they werent expecting, not lack of concentration that ‘gifted’ them a try.
I give France a lot of credit but they also played England and Wales and the Argentina then Australia games were tougher and more draining hence NZ being out on their feet.
The press gave the French all the motivation they needed by winding them up and writing them off but it wasnt to be even against a team without Dan carter the no1 flyhalf in the world.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:45am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:45am | Report comment
Yes mate, I know of course it was a rehearsed move and it came off brilliantly!! That’s pretty obvious. Great try by Woodcock…. and the French forwards were suckered into it. My point was is that somebody “could” say what I said above… which is a copout like saying that Nonu was to blame for Thiery’s try. It’s poor form saying these kinda things and doesn’t change anything. Both tries were great tries and the attacking team got the deserved points. Credit where it is due.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:51am
Jerry said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:51am | Report comment
The AB’s scored two tries in the 08 Bledisloe at Eden Park with that exact play – they must have been saving it for a big occasion cause they’ve not done it much since then.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:56am
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Jerry
Probably waited to encounter a team that would contest the lineout – france were competing at both front and back, and that quickly put paid to that folly.
A good set piece
October 24th 2011 @ 8:03am
Jerry said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:03am | Report comment
For reference… 3m 55s
Though I was misremembering – they only scored once with it in that match. They’ve definitely scored off it another time though.
October 24th 2011 @ 3:12am
RedsNut said | October 24th 2011 @ 3:12am | Report comment
The ABs so o o o nearly choked again.
October 24th 2011 @ 6:36am
cinematic said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:36am | Report comment
But didn’t.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:03am
TowerofStrength said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:03am | Report comment
yeah a real rugby fan sits their hoping NZ chokes…..yawn!
October 24th 2011 @ 8:08am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:08am | Report comment
Complete the sentence RedsNut, you know you want…..The ABS so o o o o nearly choked again BUT THEY DIDN’T.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:24am
Bazza all black said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:24am | Report comment
And the team that are now world champs, and nearly choked put away easily a wb side. So what does that say about your team….
October 24th 2011 @ 1:55pm
Dan said | October 24th 2011 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
Australia has probably the smallest rugby resources of the top 5 rugby nations and yet has won two RWCs and is consistently ranked in the top 3. I’d say that makes “our team” over achievers. A bit like the Kiwis in the Rugby League at the moment, but the wallabies golden era is now behind it.
October 24th 2011 @ 2:52pm
defunkt said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
According to the IRB wesbite the Australian union has 140,000 registered players compared to NZ’s 122,000.
October 24th 2011 @ 3:21pm
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
Defunkt,
According to NZRU’s annual report for 2010, NZ had 146,893 registered players in 2009.
See http://files.allblacks.com/comms/2010_NZRU_Annual_Report.pdf. I believe there are always some dificulties getting precise comparisons.
But in any case, Rugby is the No 3 ranked code in Australia so its harder to compete for a slice of the public’s money. We also have the problem that our players are scattered over 4,000 kilometres, so its not easy to get national competitions happening. Put it in European terms: if Perth was in London, Brisbane would be in Tobolsk Siberia!
Which is not a whinge as such, just one of the things we have to sort out.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:34am
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Done deal, well done ABs
Too good for too long not to have this one in their bag
October 24th 2011 @ 8:39am
Geoff Brisbane now California said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:39am | Report comment
4 more years RN 4 more years
October 24th 2011 @ 9:03am
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Even if NZ had lost, I don’t think you could call that choking.
To me, ‘choking’ is when a team obviously has a clear advantge in terms of skill, experience etc, and then plays way below its potential, purely through inability to cope with pressure.
Its not choking when two teams are evenly matched throughout the game, and one side wins simply because one of them had to, or the bounce of the ball or whatever. That was this game – it would be hard to choose between the two teams. They played well in the forwards, well in the backs, plenty of skill shown in all aspects of the game, and tons of heart by each. The score was a just one: a try and a goal each.
I believe this was an excellent advertisement for rugby, even though some might call it boring – the contest was mesmerising.
October 24th 2011 @ 1:25pm
mace 22 said | October 24th 2011 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Choking is constantly being the No 1 ranked team year in year out. Go into a tournament as hot favourites, and then lose. To me that describes the all blacks at nearly each RWC . So if they lost I’d call it choking. But as you know they didn’t so it’s all academic.
October 25th 2011 @ 8:14pm
Baa Baa said | October 25th 2011 @ 8:14pm | Report comment
But the didn’t and they won. Does this mean Australia choked then by your words?
October 24th 2011 @ 9:44am
Doug said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Get your hand off it. They won, it was close because France played well and didnt give in. Good on the kiwis for playing well through out the tournament. Hopefully we’ll get the better of them next World Cup.
October 24th 2011 @ 12:58pm
Josh said | October 24th 2011 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
Oh but they did choke…they just got away with it this time,,,good on them for it, the tournament has been full of games where the best team didnt win i,e, wales v france, SA v Aus.
October 24th 2011 @ 1:28pm
mace 22 said | October 24th 2011 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Oh josh may we have many more similar chokes.
October 24th 2011 @ 4:07am
Sportym said | October 24th 2011 @ 4:07am | Report comment
I too believe that the ABs got the benefit of the 50/50 calls, though to be honest NZ missed the penalties and France could have gone ahead had they put that last penalty shot over. Had France got that penalty I think they would have won. At the end NZ are world champions. We cannot blame the ref, if anything the reffing in this WC had been awful all round, Wales , Australia and SA can all claim they were really hard done. I do disagree with spiro that this was well reffed, but weepu was a gentlemen and did not take advantage of those decisions. France played great but let’s be honest they are not the number 1 team in the world by a long shot, they just can really turn up one day and be amazing, that was today but next week they would probably loose to tonga again. I’m just glad it wad not a blow out, the France turned up and the ABs choked their way to victory this time
. The right team won.
October 24th 2011 @ 5:21am
Jerry said | October 24th 2011 @ 5:21am | Report comment
Funny you mention NZ getting the 50/50 calls but then you mention that penalty France missed – in case you didn’t notice there was a clear knock on by France immediately before Joubert penalised McCaw…
October 24th 2011 @ 6:39am
cinematic said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:39am | Report comment
Don’t pay any attention to the sour grapes Jerry. The AB’s are the World Champions. Nuff said.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:21am
Jerry said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:21am | Report comment
Ah, I don’t care about the trolls – I find it hilarious.
The AB’s have had bugger all luck over the years (Barnes, food poisoning etc) and few people gave them or the supporters any quarter, so even if Joubert was as bad as they reckon he was (which I don’t think he was) it’s just a case of what goes around comes around and this time we get the win. So bring it on, trolls cause the AB’s are now unquestionably the most successful side in the history of rugby and nothing is gonna change that any time soon.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:30am
warrenexpatinnz said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:30am | Report comment
Won’t the Tri Nations, sorry four Nations, this coming year have some real added spice with the ABs new found crown going to be tested especially by two sides who didn’t meet their expectations at RWC11.
Imagine the first Bledisloe in Aussie, will be a cracker with a “little bit” of feeling.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:10am
cinematic said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:10am | Report comment
October 24th 2011 @ 8:10am
cinematic said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Expat I was just having the same thought. A Wallaby side on the rise (with greatness in them), an AB side on the wane, the angry Boks and the new kids on the block. Mouth watering.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:20am
warrenexpatinnz said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:20am | Report comment
The spark of life that this win for the ABs will give SH rugby and the Super 15 will need to be milked for all it is worth.
There is a potential downside for NZ;
I have posted before that I thought the endless climb to the RWC mountain for the ABs will have a down side, new coach, losing elder statesman, stars like McCaw and Carter just starting to climb down from the peak.
I don’t think NZ rugby will collapse in a heap but unlike the Boks and Wallabies who will benefit from having the RWC champs play on their shores the ABs may strike a rugby support lull?
The selection of the new AB coach will be very interesting as the bench mark was achieved but I scratch my head on whether it can be maintained as Henry was the key to that group, just as much as McCaw (and not Carter like everyone thought!) and I cannot see Hansen filling that role as although a part of that winning coaching structure his footprint was/is hard to actually see. Mike Cron is the scrum coach and that leaves Hansen with the lineouts and after the very public demotion for a while it hasn’t reached the level of the Boks consistency.
Just maybe the AB coaching role will be thrown right open and some signed contracts may be tested or agree to on early release, who knows, it is a pofessional era.
October 24th 2011 @ 9:19am
Moaman said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Morning all!
)…now Alice has been rewon…the ABs will somehow fall apart and become mediocre like your beloved Wallabies…..merely striving to peak every four years to get a ‘peek’ at Alice…..Alice…24 years waitin’ for a chance,24 years to get a 2nd chance…….” Ohhhhhhhh Alice! You hope that the ABs will be on ” a journey” where results are secondary to “building”…maaaaaate! A new breed of ABs-already identified by our Chief Talent Scout in Australia-aka KPM..awaits in the wings,ready to step of the production-line and fill the breech.So Warren…don’t hold your breath!
# Phew!
# Spiro…got to pull you up on something you wrote–”Donald’s inept and brain-dead play single-handedly allowed the Wallabies to snatch a sensational victory ” This kind of throwaway statement,based on a false premise,can go on to become cemented “fact’ in the limited minds of the undiscerning.Let me make a point in Donald’s defence.When the ball was scrambled to him from a ruck, in,if memory serves me correctly,midfield close to the sticks,the were 40-odd seconds left on the clock in Hong Kong.Hold it right there! I believe the ABs should have,(and I said so at the time) kept the ball tied up in that ruck and let the clock run down before putting it directly into touch.It is possible that Donald called for the ball…but it might be that the decision was made for him.In any case,Beale retrieved that wayward kick down near halfway…the rest is history as they say.But I’m sick of people making public statements denigrating players without a backward glance.Steven Donald’s rehabilitation last night was a Fairy Tale in itself and wonderful to see.
# France were superb,dominated the 2nd half and desperately unlucky to not snatch the win.I thought the ABs dominated the first 30 minutes without laying the game to bed through faulty goal-kicking and failing to apply sustained periods of pressure.Too many senseless kicks by Nonu ,Weepu and co.I was screaming inside for Cruden to be given the goal/restart kicking duties which I felt would have both eased Weepu’s burden and helped Cruden grow in confidence.A tactical error by the coaches imo.
# I may be biased,but I didn’t have any complaints atall about Joubert who I reckon refs as Refs should…stays out of the way and doesn’t seek centre-stage like some do.
#Warren…..mate…..You seem to be clinging to the faint hope that now that “Alice” (as I reckon the Bill needs a gender-change and hereby initiate a movement to call the cup by that new handle
October 24th 2011 @ 9:33am
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:33am | Report comment
A great match – Enjoy the euphoria of the win Moaman,
French were brilliant for a side that were written off
ABs were good enough and without doubt well deserving.
1 point is always enough.
And I watched the Cup of Dreams about RWC and AB legacy, very interesting insight into AB and NZ rugby culture.
No more choker tag, just a new history with AB prescence on Bill / Alice
October 24th 2011 @ 9:41am
Moaman said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Capital…..I found myself very engrossed and emotional watching the damned buses en route to the Stadium before the game! All those black dots viewed from the air-looking like ants and growing into flag-waving fans…For me ,that was a revelation…..I’m not usually one to be too excited about the Talking-Heads-dominated preambles to sporting events..BUT this was somehow different.I was there in the box with the coaches….imagining how Henry and Smith,particularly,were feeling.This was a special occasion…made more so by the history….and with France growing ever-stronger as the game progressed..well…you can imagine how tense thing were getting for me
I’m not euphoric yet….i’m relieved-and hungover!
October 24th 2011 @ 9:46am
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Moaman
The coaches box – those guys earnt their cash for the nervous energy of that match alone.
I commented numerous times to guys I watched the match with – how would they be feeling?
And the crowd lost their voice – I was at Cardiff Arms park in 84 – pushover try …
Eden Park was silent as the tension ramped up.
A great match, a great result for rugby and so good to see the ABs get up against a gallant impressive french side.
October 24th 2011 @ 9:49am
warrenexpatinnz said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Gday mate,
.
That was the predictive speak coming out from me re the ABs
I for one hope that the changing of the guard for the ABs is as seamless as it can be as the encounters coming up over the next few years will be great with the young talent in either squad starting to blossom. The reason why I think the ABs may struggle a little more is the changing of coaches and the loss of some older players, some this year and some next year.
McCaw will be due a lengthy spell and will have surgery on his foot again and Carter will be in no rush to push his groin beyond what is expected rehab. Can these two players stay at were they are now, pre injury or is that slidewe saw in the performances at times this year going to become more eveident and will the next McCaw and Carter be there to take over as needed?
I can’t take anything away from the ABs Moaman, true RWCs and fits their number 1 status like a glove.
Question; is Hansen, if selected, capable of being an AB coach in a transistion phase remembering Mitchells tenure. Hansen in my eyes is not a patch on Henry and those of his calibre, not with the winning record though, Deans and Gatland I signed up and the only other guy capable maybe after another year or two of Super rugby is Blackadder?
October 24th 2011 @ 10:09am
Moaman said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:09am | Report comment
We must not judge Hansen by his appearance and monotone Warren.I probably have..but have come to realise I must listen to what he is saying rather than how he says it.Not always easy.Also…I have so much respect for Henry and Smith-and doubt they would suffer Hansen’s company for more than 5 seconds were he not bringing something to the table.
Gatland mUST NEVER get near the ABs’ Coaches’ Box.NEVER. I wouldn’t be keen to see Deans there either.Rennie might be an option for the future but Hnsen will do me for now.Just remains to be seen who he will gather around him.Wayne Smith deserves a lot of kudos and he will be a big loss.
Still getting over last night.Just before kickoff,when i looked at the dry track,i opted for a 37-12 win which,even as I uttered it,I suspected might be optimistic. (!!!) I was thrilled,and slightly worried,when the French responded brilliantly to the Haka! That gave way to ‘chilled’ and ‘very’ worried as the game unravelled.Phew!
October 24th 2011 @ 10:12am
kingplaymaker said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Already here Moaman. Congratulations.
October 24th 2011 @ 1:39pm
warrenexpatinnz said | October 24th 2011 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
Alice, would have gone for Sally mate
. Wish I was celebrating like the AB fans today, ah well will just have to wait for Bledisloe and 4N cups this year eh and beat thos RWC champs along the way
.
Well done ABs, my only negative of the night was the lack of credit given to the Fench team by AB players (Dagg an exception) and AB coach. Probably lost in the emotion but France made the match a memorable won.
October 24th 2011 @ 9:45am
Harry said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:45am | Report comment
NZ have won the last 4 Under 20 championships. Thats the best guide to how thing will be in the future so IMO its likely that they will retain their No 1 IRB ranking for the foressable future. Winning the world cup, thats another matter …
October 24th 2011 @ 9:25am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Warren, are there any Wallabies RWC squad members heading overseas? Do you think we’ll see major personnel changes?
October 24th 2011 @ 9:36am
warrenexpatinnz said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Gday mate, the only one that sticks in my head is Burgess although Ioanne is not yet committed? I also see Sharpe is pretty keen to keep on going, already signed another year for the Force but the way the old fella is going I think he will make the Lions series in 2013 if his form stacks up.
).
A few guys on two year contracts, with Barnes? and Cooper on 1 year deals only though from all accounts and if I pick his character right I can see Cooper wanting a spot in the 2015 RWC as when getting burnt like he has turning everything around and showing those that bagged him up (like Donald but not just one game
Vickerman and Samo can do another year and with some good locks coming through and a forward pack which is still in its infancy we have some good rugby ahead of us hopefully.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:38am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:38am | Report comment
Jerry well done to All Blacks. Deserved winners. Enjoy your moment. I’m not a troll either as NZ deserved it throughout this tournament. Joubert was good I thought.
But please mate for your sake don’t get too lippy or arrogant….. humility is a far greater character trait than boasting or pride and it’s poor form to make excuses such as food poisoning and Wayne Barnes. Pride comes before a fall. Remember it took until 1996 for the All Blacks to surpass the Springboks as the best rugby playing nation…. SA held that honour, and head to head between SA-NZ it seesawed in the 1920s-30s before SA went comfortably ahead… only to be surpassed in 1996 with the first ever series win in SA.
But enjoy your moment. It is really a great feeling. All Blacks currently are the best rugby team and have been over most of the last 15 years and now have the Cup to enforce this and back this up.
Well done!!!
October 24th 2011 @ 7:47am
Jerry said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Heh, don’t worry I’m not gonna turn into a gloating twat overnight.
I try to be fairly reasonable for the most part, but there are a fair few trolls about and I may just fall back on ‘Look at the scoreboard’ if I get bored with them.
As Warren says above, the 4 Nations next year is gonna be awesome. I expect the Boks & Blacks will be having a real changing of the guard so there’ll be 3 young sides building for 2015 and the Pumas offering a great new presence. Rugby rules!
October 24th 2011 @ 7:48am
Tacksharp said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Good calls Rhino. But also good calls from Jerry. Hi opinion was not stated in a boastful, lippy or arrogant way. Those were the facts.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:01am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Yip a re-read suggests I may have been a bit harsh. Sorry. No-ones taking away the All Blacks Champs status for the next 4 years! I guess Kiwi’s can say that over and over again as many times as they want now
October 24th 2011 @ 3:56pm
peterlala said | October 24th 2011 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
Charging Rhino, you and Bakkies are two I hesitate to criticise, just in case you are really who you say you are. Great to have the Africans here during the cup.
October 24th 2011 @ 3:39pm
Chuck said | October 24th 2011 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Who are you to come onto a site and preach to someone?
Your post itself comes across as arrogant
October 24th 2011 @ 7:41am
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Four more years Jerry …
The match was excellent, we would all be bitching if Joubert blew a technical whistle fest and ruined the game. Personally I think he was lenient at the breakdown.
Well done ABs – deserving champions.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:44am
Tacksharp said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Agreed. I thought Joubert was playing advantage, and couldn’t understand why he wasn’t calling it back.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:58am
Pete #205 said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:58am | Report comment
NZ definitely got the 50/50 calls, as is the norm for the home team. You cannot deny that. I also saw a few NZ knock ons in those rucks too.
October 24th 2011 @ 4:19am
ratchet up said | October 24th 2011 @ 4:19am | Report comment
First time I’ve posted on here but what a time to do it. Actually been waiting for the win to do it. All i can say is peace at last the god almighty peace at last. ALL BLACKS. Also now that this circus is over bring on the four nations league that is.Also the real compitition next years rugby four nations. Welcome to the fold pumas.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:48am
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Agree on both counts ratchet
ABs
And Four Nations with Pumas will be pretty special next year
October 24th 2011 @ 9:10am
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:10am | Report comment
This was a real competition ratchet. Don’t kid yourself otherwise.
October 24th 2011 @ 1:32pm
mace 22 said | October 24th 2011 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Yes it’s good and better we won. I agree with ratchet. the four nations are of teams with an equal chance of winning from the start of the comp. I put the puma’s in this as well they proved that against the blacks, and won’t be easy at home.
October 24th 2011 @ 5:58am
Krash said | October 24th 2011 @ 5:58am | Report comment
Gotta say that Craig Joubert wasn’t all that flash in this game. Take nothing away from the AB’s win, well done to them, but Joubert did let them get away with more than just a few things at ruck-time
October 24th 2011 @ 6:55am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:55am | Report comment
As a neutral I thought Joubert was pretty darn good. 95% of his calls were spot on and ref’d the breakdown very fairly. Every game will have a few 50-50 or grey area calls go either way and it depends how strictly you want to ref. Maybe Bryce could learn something from this guy….?
October 24th 2011 @ 6:58am
TowerofStrength said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:58am | Report comment
Agreed he reffed well as is the no1 ref in the world at the moment.
France played well and NZ did enough to win, which i might add when the Poms or the Wallas win is always said to be enough.
If Weepu had his kicks the score would not have been in doubt.
October 24th 2011 @ 9:09am
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Barnes and Walsh are at least as good as Joubert at the moment.
But all credit to him, he has had some shockers in the past, but no major errors in these last two RWC matches.
Weepu having his kicks – the same might be said of France. The difference in this game was that the pressure was on – Wallabies unfortunately never looked like applying any real pressure to ABs, but the French were there to play and knew how to play. A great match.
But yes, a win is a win, and it doesn’t matter how its achieved. I thought this game was as absorbing as any high-scoring match I have seen.
October 24th 2011 @ 10:27am
mitzter said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Yeah in terms of the flow of the match NZ should have scored more points in the first half, but France should have scored more in the second, so we would have been left with a similar situation
October 24th 2011 @ 11:31am
vaguely said | October 24th 2011 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Yeah, Barnes. Right….
Mr Doesn’t know what a forward pass is, is that really who you want reffing crunch games?
October 24th 2011 @ 10:09pm
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:09pm | Report comment
No, that’s Mr “Knows-what-a-forward-pass-is-as-well-as-the-next-ref-but-some-kiwi-fans-got-very-bitter-about-a-previous-RWC-loss-and-couldn’t-cope-with-it Barnes, to you!
Yes, Barnes and Walsh are at least as good as Joubert, and should be referreeing crunch games.
October 24th 2011 @ 10:16pm
Chuck said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
Look at you, your crazed all your posts are negative sour grapes and a chance to have a go at kiwis.
But thats ok NZ are the World Champions Mike and that has really got under your skin.
October 24th 2011 @ 10:26pm
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:26pm | Report comment
Hmmm, I didn’t realise that saying Barnes is a good referee amounts to “having a go at kiwis”, but hey, you learn something every day!
October 24th 2011 @ 10:36pm
Jerry said | October 24th 2011 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
Barnes missed a pretty blatant one a couple of nights ago too, Mike….
October 24th 2011 @ 8:20am
Seiran said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Not taking anything away from the AB win, but I thought Joubert was too scared to blow his whistle against the AB’s in the second half. Too worried about being blamed of ruining the WC final.
In the last long phase play by the French, the AB’s were constantly getting warned to ‘release’ but kept lying all over the ruck, not releasing the player, and Joubert let it go on. Could the French score a penalty from 40 odd metres out in the corner? Who knows, but it would of been good to see them try.
October 24th 2011 @ 11:23am
TowerofStrength said | October 24th 2011 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Is that kinda like Wayne Barnes refusing to blow his whistle 17 times in the French hosted 2007 RWC QF?
Or was that a premeditated directive he was carrying out to let the host nation get a bit further?
Oh must stop myself being petty!
October 24th 2011 @ 11:33am
Seiran said | October 24th 2011 @ 11:33am | Report comment
It is TOS. Which is my point. The same happened in the France v Brazil Football world cup, with the ref in that sport also too scared to blow his whistle against the home side. And yes it happened to the AB’s when they played France in 07.
I think they get over-awed by the home team fans.
I don’t believe for a second there was any kind of directive. I’ve read some silly comments some have made about conspiracies to let the aB’s win, but that’s a load of rubbish.
October 24th 2011 @ 2:13pm
mace 22 said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
The funny thing seiran I didn’t see any of the indiscretions you say happened. But did I see the french lying all over the ball, off side at the breakdown. I suppose it depends on which coloured glasses you have on.
October 24th 2011 @ 2:26pm
soapit said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
was just thinking that might have been a bit of payback for 07.
October 24th 2011 @ 2:18pm
Phil said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
I think Joubert had a bad game, he virtually put the whistle away at the breakdown. The kiwi’s were lying all over it. Led by McCaw and Thorne.
Additionally both teams were constantly offside, particularly in the midfield.
Both of these led to the game not being an overally good spectacle for open play.
Until such time as both of these are better policed there will be little in the way of open rugby.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:42am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Disagree. He was very good, let the game flow and look like a final. Told the players exactly what they were doing wrong, including McCaw who managed an effective turnover then when a secondary ruck formed was offside.
October 24th 2011 @ 11:33am
vaguely said | October 24th 2011 @ 11:33am | Report comment
He let a lot go early, including a lot by Ritchie.
But he cleaned it up by the end, and that’s what counts.
October 24th 2011 @ 5:59am
Mungehead said | October 24th 2011 @ 5:59am | Report comment
How do the French DO that? It’s like they only came to play against us, the rest was irrelevant. My head said they would step up for the final but I couldn’t really make myself believe it. There were so many ridiculous comments during the week of it being a fait accompli for the All Blacks that I was lulled into complacency despite my best efforts. Henry knew it, he said all along that complacency was our number one enemy. A mere hint of that and we would have lost this game. I’m never going to scoff again when the coach talks up the merits of the opposition, I’m just going to say, remember the 2011 final.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:44am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:44am | Report comment
I’ve been saying the same thing all week, DON’T WRITE THE FRENCH OFF, DON’T WRITE THE FRENCH OFF. When I heard bookmakers were paying out the RWC in NZ early, I thought ‘oh noes…’
We’ve seen it sooooo many times before, but I’m immensely proud that the ABs knew the storm was coming (thanks to 2007) and had their defensive game ready. Credit where credit is due, the ABs played an excellent defensive game in the second half, something which we didn’t do properly in 2007.
October 24th 2011 @ 2:18pm
mace 22 said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Mungehead I wish the welsh and australian coaches would try that. As they always talk up their teams when playing the all blacks, and the real sad thing is they are kiwis.
October 24th 2011 @ 6:37am
Joe said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:37am | Report comment
We won ! I’m still in the viaduct on the rip, the sun is shining. Well played the French , well played mr read , well played new zealand. See you in London in 4 yrs time with a few more grey hairs
October 24th 2011 @ 6:48am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Spiro, you really do see the world through “rose-tinted glasses”… “This was a memorable Rugby World Cup final. It was a titanic battle with both sides playing with power and passion. It was unbelievably tense.”
As if the 2007 final wasn’t everything and more of the above??!! Well it wasn’t for you I guess because Australia and New Zealand weren’t in it so you can’t see past that.
Lowest final score in History…. Who would’ve thought ey?…. with the “attacking teams and try scorers of All Blacks and France” ha ha…. I called it weeks ago saying this final would be another low scoring game decided by defence and kicks, or in this game missed kicks. Also for those who thought the All Blacks would hammer France….. Whatever!?? Ignorant fools. I couldn’t stop laughing and was amazed when people were betting on New Zealand winning by 15+ points. Have these arrogant fools learnt nothing from history?
Huge Congrats to New Zealand. They played the best rugby in the tournament, have held the number 1 ranking, hosted the tournament, but most importantly were able to finally win today, in the final which it all that counts so they deserve it. Massive Congratulations! Enjoy it. It’s a great feeling. You guys deserve it. Well done.
I, however as a neutral personally think France played the better rugby and if it was a normal game they were unlucky not to have won it. I don’t want to take anything away from NZ and their performance as they won on the scoreboard which is all that matters. It was just NZ’s time I guess. Well done. I’m happy for the people of NZ. I’m certain all my Kiwi mates must be super stoked!
October 24th 2011 @ 7:04am
TowerofStrength said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:04am | Report comment
07 final turned more people off rugby than probably any game in history.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:14am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:14am | Report comment
And you say this because you have no interest in the teams that were playing in it… right?? Oh my…. Does it occur to you that the population of England and South Africa is more than 4 times the size of Australia and NZ… so for many many many more people it was phenomenally exciting and drew many more to the game. But perhaps you may view the world through rose tinted glasses… kinda like Spiro does very often.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:32am
TowerofStrength said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:32am | Report comment
No discredit to SA at all, more to England, they were woeful and it was a joke they were in the final on that form.
Yes I understand you can only play whats in front of you but they cake walked it in there.
October 24th 2011 @ 7:25am
Charging Rhino said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Mate don’t get me wrong.. this was an exciting game of rugby and great to watch. But no more exciting than 4 years ago. And to continuously discredit the Springboks and lambast that 07 final is really just sad and sour grapes. Just because Aus and NZ were kicked out in the quarters and there was no interest from these countries in the tournament thereafter doesn’t mean it wasn’t an exciting game for everyone else. It’s funny because before I ever came across this site I’d only ever heard praise for that game and how exciting it was…. and coming hear you read Sprio’s and other views and it’s so contrasting it’s unbelievable. I was flabbergasted the first time I heard this view!?
There is a whole much much bigger wide world that exists (and a rugby world) outside of Aus and NZ. It would be a good idea to tap into other rugby channels and not get tunnel vision. Which is why I come here too.
October 24th 2011 @ 9:53am
Mungehead said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Well said Rhino
October 24th 2011 @ 2:16pm
Jonny G said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
What a load of bollocks, the 07 final had nothing on this final, neither did it have anything on the 95 final.
you may go around accusing people of looking through rose tinted glasses but your the one trying to convince people that your favourite RWC final is worthy of being remembered.
The only thing I remember was England being dominated and never looking like challenging the springboks after their disallowed try and still kicking possession away at the 75th minute when they needed a try to get themselves back in the game.
By the way I’ve been a neutral for the last two finals
October 24th 2011 @ 7:15am
Capital said | October 24th 2011 @ 7:15am | Report comment
And some great running rugby from a side that was written off.
A team playing with the weight of their nation on their back.
Steve Donald scoring the winning points.
The french scrum imposing itself against one of the best scrums in teh world.
Both teams playing the majority of the match with their second string flyhalfs.
The match was excellent, the commitment and intensity never waned and the tension until the final whistle was enjoyable (unless you were an AB fan or a french fan) …
This was a very good match played by two very good teams who played good rugby in a cauldron.
And if you think that the match wasn’t memorable – amazing how the 16th man – the Auckland fortress went quiet for significant periods of the match.
A great game of rugby, and very memorable.
October 24th 2011 @ 8:46am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:46am | Report comment
ChargingRhino, I equate this game to the 1995 Rugby World Cup, as close as close can be between two titanic teams and in front of an absolutely passionate crowd.
October 24th 2011 @ 6:51am
Verity said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:51am | Report comment
First time posting but driven to it by your article. Blimey Spiro, you nearly made me choke. “The excellent referee Craig Joubert” !!!! If indeed he’s ever been excellent it certainly wasn’t in this match. He only refereed the one team and that was France. The NZ’s were allowed to get away with just about every conceivable infringement. The French were magnificent and that they kept their discipline in view of such a disgusting display by the ref is truly remarkable.
On another note this whole World Cup has been marred by the gracelessness and arrogance of the NZ coaches and team (couldn’t even say complimentary words about the French in their speeches) not to mention their lack of acknowledgement when the magnanimous French permitted them to wear black!
October 24th 2011 @ 8:46am
Suli Black said | October 24th 2011 @ 8:46am | Report comment
sour grapes verity! 4 more years 4 u!!!!
October 24th 2011 @ 9:15am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:15am | Report comment
The All Blacks got the rub of the green last night. It happens in Rugby World Cups – ask the Welsh and the Springboks. This time the 50/50s came in favour of the All Blacks.
If you cannot take a small amount of pleasure in seeing the unbridled joy coming from a country that’s been through so much this year and been denied this achievement despite incredible endeavour in previous campaigns, it reflects poorly upon you, not New Zealand.
I hope you have as good a week as 4 million New Zealanders will.
October 24th 2011 @ 9:21am
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Its a fair point about the speeches.
But congratulations to ABs for a good win.
October 24th 2011 @ 2:34pm
mace 22 said | October 24th 2011 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
What verity they had just won the cup after the most titanic battle in a game of rugby since the wallaby england final in 2003. Have won after 24 yrs in a country that would have been in a state of depression for I don’t know how long. So excuse me if the coaches didn’t talk up the french. Also no matter what they would have done in your mind us new zealanders, all blacks and coaches will always be arrogant. People like you make winning so much the sweeter.
Also we got away with a lot with the referee because we’re the all blacks and we are the best . Always will be. We have the best country in the world. We don’t care what the rest of the world thinks of us, because we know we are the best. As I’ve said before it’s hard to be humble when your the best. How do you like that for arrogant.
October 24th 2011 @ 3:33pm
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Mace,
Leaving aside the refereeing bit, quite a few people have referred to the failure of Henry and McCaw to even mention the French in their victory speeches.
On that particular issue, its just not good enough to say ‘we won after 24 years’ or ‘you people will think us arrogant whatever we do’.
If you are the winning captain, you refer to the other side. You say how well they played, it was an honour to play them etc. Its just what you do, like shaking hands with the other team at the end of the match.
It may only be a small part of the whole experience, but it took a distinct bit of gloss off the proceedings. Sort of like bowling a ball underarm in cricket…
“As I’ve said before it’s hard to be humble when your the best. How do you like that for arrogant.”
In some contexts, this might be a good answer. However, In response to a query as to why neither captain nor coach mentioned the other side in their winning speeches, its pretty low.
October 24th 2011 @ 3:47pm
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Mace,
I should clarify. My post above comes across as very personally critical of you, which it wasn’t meant to be. I think your posts are pretty good, with a high regard for the game.
I just think Richie and Henry might have a think about always mentioning the other side in their victory speeches in future!
October 25th 2011 @ 4:44am
Verity said | October 25th 2011 @ 4:44am | Report comment
I assume because I criticise refereeing from my point of view and the manners – or lack thereof by the AB’s that you think I’m French. Unfortunately not – otherwise I’d have a Euro passport and wouldn’t be seen for dust!
I just love watching the game. It’s a bit like chess but so much more grunt!
As to the chant “4 more years” – doesn’t any NZ’er know this can only apply to them. It has absolutely no relevance when said to any other nation and therefore no effect except bemusement. It was coined by Wallaby George Gregan and aimed at his opposite Byron Kelleher because NZ had already been favourites for 16 years and were about to fail to win a RWC yet again – therefore yet another 4 years!!! Choke- also needs explanation to those who misuse it – cannot apply unless you’re favoured to win.
I’ll stick with my views and not be drawn into jingoistic banter. If someone thinks NZ is a wonderful place to live – fine, but it has nothing to do with winning a game of rugby.
The unfortunate natural disasters NZ has suffered also didn’t qualify it for a win. if you subscribe to that theory surely Japan would have been handed the cup at the opening ceremony!
I reiterate my views – it was a very poor performance from Joubert and an ungracious display of manners from the NZ’s.
October 24th 2011 @ 6:59am
El Gamba said | October 24th 2011 @ 6:59am | Report comment
Agree Verity. Another game decided by poor refereeing. Perhaps the all blacks deserved a world cup but France deserved to win that game – against all the odds.
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October 24th 2011 @ 9:18am
jeremy said | October 24th 2011 @ 9:18am | Report comment
El Gamba,
Perhaps. However, if every game were decided based on who deserved to win it rather than who won it….Wales would surely have played in the final.
October 24th 2011 @ 11:08am
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Interesting that the least intelligent comments always come from iPhones
October 24th 2011 @ 11:12am
Mike said | October 24th 2011 @ 11:12am | Report comment
That was the kiwi Mike.
Mind you, I don’t think ABs were undeserving winners, although I do think it would have been a just result if either team won, as they both played very good hard rugby with enormous commitment.