Turn your back on the haka in silent protest
Roar Guru By Stephen Pillinger, 27 Oct 2011 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- All Blacks, Haka, Quade Cooper, Rugby Union, Rugby World Cup 2011
277 Have your say
First of all, congrats to the All Blacks. I don’t say Kiwis, as it was a champion team that deservedly won the World Cup.
They have been the best team in the world for four years and deserve the win. That said, they were not the best team on the night and were saved by a poor referee.
Just look at the maul when the All Blacks were awarded the penalty that won them the game. Just look at McCaw and where he joins the maul and ends up.
Is it just me, or have the Kiwis diminished themselves, just a bit, in the way they have gone about this World Cup? I acknowledge the unique pressure of trying to win a World Cup in the one sport you dominate, but haven’t been able to, for 24 years, is crushing.
The desperation has been palpable and understandable.
Rugby is a game of tradition, of honour, and respect. It is expected those who play and coach the game will pass on those values.
I still feel uneasy when opposition kickers are booed, something that has only come along with the professional era. One need only witness the actions of the Welsh players when Quade Cooper went down, clearly badly injured.
Not a hand laid upon him, rather those hands gestured urgently for the trainers to come on.
Contrast that with the actions of the New Zealand media, coaching staff and players in the orchestrated campaign against Cooper.
His crime? He has had the temerity to have the odd altercation with the god McCaw.
This is a young, extravagantly gifted, but raw and flawed player, at his first World Cup. Is he that much of a threat that such a shrill campaign is needed to unsettle him?
I challenge anyone to name another rugby player so targetted at any other tournament.
You argue that is the way of modern professional sport? Fine, but you can’t have your cake and eat it. The IRB has decreed that all teams must stand by whilst the All Blacks do their little war dance (again, showing their remarkable inconsistency with the ridiculous fine for the French, whilst letting Ali Williams get away for two years for strutting towards the half-way line when performing the haka).
If you are going to respect the game, you must respect all of it, not the bits that suit you. The targetting of Cooper was cowardly, and the booing when he was injured spineless and shameful.
The players can do nothing as they will be restrained by their Unions, but supporters and fans can. Bollocks to the haka, I say.
Do your little war dance, but don’t ask me to respect it. You have lost that right. From now on, I will not boo or hiss, but will simply stand and turn my back on the haka in silent protest.
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- All Blacks, Haka, Quade Cooper, Rugby Union, Rugby World Cup 2011
October 27th 2011 @ 5:48am
Gormon said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:48am | Report comment
Well said, I think that the concerted effort against Cooper was shameful. Although it was, presumably, the minority doing it, New Zealand is only a small country, and it reflects badly on them.
October 27th 2011 @ 12:22pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Just ban the Haka. Who needs it? It’s not part of the sport. It’s gone overboard
October 27th 2011 @ 6:55am
Moaman said | October 27th 2011 @ 6:55am | Report comment
I have read so much on this site about the haka. There are so many misconceptions about it.Yesterday I heard someone say eg the Haka have been performed “for nearly 100 years”. Let me inform you that haka were first performed in Australia in 1884.( I will let you get your calculators out if the maths is too onerous).There is much written about protocol surrounding the haka and whether “respect” is demanded or shown etc.
Why don’t disgruntled fans who don’t like the haka take the simple step and lobby the ARU to have it stopped? Simple.No longer invite the All Blacks to perform their traditional ritual and that will be the end of it.And maybe it will be the end of the incessant whinging.I doubt that though.You blokes are resourceful….you will find something else.You might,eg,start on dissecting what happens at the breakdown and singling out an opposition player for some misdemeanor whilst conveniently overlooking the same offences committed by one of your own.Most rugby observers know that,under current laws,numerous transgressions occur at every lineout and breakdown.
Solution; Lobby the ARU/IRB and get the laws changed.Simple.And maybe it will be the end of the incessant whinging…….
October 27th 2011 @ 7:10am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:10am | Report comment
Moaman the IRB are the biggest danger to the Haka, not what anyone would think of it otherwise.
October 27th 2011 @ 12:51pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
respect is automatic, unless arrogant types come out and make certain demands about respect, placing themselves hi & mighty
Maybe we should return to a tradition that was used in the colonization of NZ, the British Square, at the start of each game. Now THAT gained respect LOL
Rugby is the common denominator for us all. That is the culture. The Haka is not even a NZ cultural thing. It’s a Maori cultural practice. It is a practice for a racial and cultural group.
On second thoughts, get the Poms to do some Morris dancing. That is bound the keep Kiwis away from the grounds.
Excellent!
October 27th 2011 @ 12:57pm
Moaman said | October 27th 2011 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Did you even read my post amband?
” The Haka is not even a NZ cultural thing. It’s a Maori cultural practice. It is a practice for a racial and cultural group.” The mere fact that you seperate “maori” from “new zealand” clearly shows where you stand on the issue.
October 27th 2011 @ 1:25pm
clipper said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I’m with you here, Moaman. You could say that Rugby was an English cultural practice, but of course that would be crazy. The Maori, and Islanders, have embraced Rugby, and the English speaking descendants of NZ have embraced the Haka at the Rugby. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
October 27th 2011 @ 1:51pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
No, The Haka is presented, promoted and displayed as a Maori practice. That’s what is is. Every time it’s performed it’s promoted, correctly as a Maori thing.
We have been buried in an avalanche of complaints about respecting the Haka, as if it’s something special. Not to me it’s not. Not to non Maori, however, of course it’s special to Maori, and I respect that.
I just don’t respect that it’s forced down our throats, and I see no place for it in rugby. It’s a novelty, and if you really respected the Haka, you would say it should not be used in sport
A senior Maori has recently stated the thing is overused and it’s becoming a parody of what it was
October 27th 2011 @ 2:10pm
Steve said | October 27th 2011 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Amband I think you misunderstand the NZ culture, the vast majority of NZer’s of all ethnic origins feel attached to the Maori Heritage of New Zealand.
You see it with people like Richie McCaw, Ali Williams, Hayley Westenra they have a deep understanding and respect of the indigenous peoples of NZ.
You even see it in everyday life with Kiwi’s expressing themselves through Maori Language, The out pouring of Aroha (love) and Kia Kaha (stay strong) messages after the CHCH earthquake are only a small example of this.
This is something to be celebrated and aspired to not denigrated. And also goes some way to explain why some many NZer’s are so defensive of the Haka and its meaning in our society.
The European descendants of Aust and NZ have such short histories why not embrace the original owners of our lands and their culture.
October 27th 2011 @ 4:41pm
Sledgeandhammer said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
While not agreeing with amband, to say that european descendents of Aust and NZ have short histories is equally ignorant. Does a Moari living in Australia or England have a short history? Our culture stretches back thousands of years. The colonisation of Aust/ NZ cooincided with the beginning of the industrial revolution, the end of slavery, the creation of a penal system i.e. the replacement of corporal punisment with imprisonment the french revolution, democracy and many other major social changes, all of which impacted upon the creation of our society, and link us forever with the history of Europe.
October 27th 2011 @ 5:06pm
Steve said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
Sorry Sledgehammer I did not perhaps word that very well. I agree with what you are saying and perhaps a better way may have been our independent histories and culture from Europe are short and can be greatly enriched with the original owners of the lands we live in.
Our education of European history is easy and accessible however this is often not the case in indigenous history.
As a Kiwi living in Australia I have made a concerted effort to understand the Aboriginal History and Culture and will make sure my children have a basic understanding in it as well.
I also will make sure they have a basic education in the varied Asian, American and Pacific cultures as there is so much to be gained from see the world through others eyes
October 27th 2011 @ 5:57pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:57pm | Report comment
there are only two ethnic origins in NZ. Officially, it is bi cultural
Certainly we all felt for and supported those people re the earthquake, but that is ti be expected
Yes you can have a respect for the indigenous people, but unless you are an indigenous person, having an understanding of it is all you can do. You can’t be one
Maori arrived in NZ very late, not like the Aboriginals in Australia
Anglo Saxon-Celtic Australians and NZers have very long histories. Short maybe as Aus/NZ nationals, but goes back to Britain, which goes back well before the Romans. We have our cultures too. I shall let other “Europeans ” speak for themselves
Australians acknowledge the first people here. Embracing them is fine. Embracing their cultures ( plural ) is impossible as there are many. Colour, not culture is what they have in common
Certain Aboriginal traditional cultures is best not adopted. There is no benefit to that, however I see the point you are trying to make and fair enough
October 27th 2011 @ 4:58pm
soapit said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
did you even read the article? its more about cooper than the approiateness haka despite the headline
October 27th 2011 @ 3:36pm
katzilla said | October 27th 2011 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
‘Maybe we should return to a tradition that was used in the colonization of NZ, the British Square, at the start of each game. Now THAT gained respect LOL’
Omg, not only do you know nothing about the colonisation of NZ, but you also know nothing about Military Strategy.
Most incorrect post ever.
The Square was used to face Cavalry in the Napoleonic wars
How many times do you think the British Soldiers faced a Cavalry charge from the Maori?
The Answer is somewhere very close to your intellect.
October 27th 2011 @ 6:02pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
you miss my point and attempt at humour. Some here are trying to say we should respect the haka lest we suffer physical pain as a result
My answer was to form the British Square in answer to it
Don’t take things too seriously
Maybe though it is historically accurate to say the Square was not used in NZ
November 8th 2011 @ 11:48pm
liam said | November 8th 2011 @ 11:48pm | Report comment
you know what else would be historically accurate in this respect?
you could say the square wasn’t used and you’d be right. you could also say the maori adapted to modern weapons and gave the brit soldiers the biggest scare they ever had. the land wars were only decided closely, and in some areas the brits got their butts handed to them for long periods.
this all forms part of the reasons why maori culture is so important to the majority of nzers. there’s a strong argument to say the maori were the hardest of all indigenous populations for the colonial army to overcome. some parts of the american colonization come closest and then only because of the larger numbers of combatants involved, but the conflict there was only ever going to go one way.
feel free to hate the haka. feel free to make it a symbol of your bitterness for whatever reason. you dont have to clap it, or cheer it. turn on for kickoff and you’ll miss it altogether… go make a cup of tea.
one thing you should look at… who are the whingers about the haka? the press. sad little fans. who of the players that have ever faced it call for it to be abolished? very very few. i’ve never heard of anyone, though statistics say there must be some. people complain that it’s a big advantage for the all blacks… that’s crap. the teams that face it get as much of a rush of adrenalin as the guys performing it, and dont waste the energy. the majority of players say they love facing it…. the french fed off it immensely in the final, which is obviously what teams should do. no kiwi thought they should have been punished for their approach… thats what the whole things about! celebrate it, it’s unique in world sport and not just for the ABs, for all the pacific teams that have brought in similar traditions and the teams that get to face it. the english sang swing low for a while, the supporters… get into it!
if you cant understand what positives there are in the haka, i feel sorry for you.
turn your back, who cares.
October 27th 2011 @ 4:15pm
TembaVJ said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Fearsome stuff the early haka’s… its come along way to the commercialised throat slitting of today. Its part of the brand and why should anyone dare to take attention away from it…
October 27th 2011 @ 7:04am
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:04am | Report comment
Good. The ABs cheat and arbitror Joubert is dishonest. Vive les Bleux. The next time we break the Abs and not for the victory but just break them to lern tem the honnor. CHABAL please comes and break them, one strike please.
October 27th 2011 @ 7:08am
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:08am | Report comment
What do a bunch of eye gougers know of honour? Get over yourself.
October 27th 2011 @ 7:37am
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:37am | Report comment
Moi je suis Français et fier de l’etre et je t’emm… hypocrite
October 27th 2011 @ 7:48am
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:48am | Report comment
I’d say a guy blathering on about honour while supporting players who indulge in the sort of gutter crap Gougerie did is more of a hypocrite.
Good on you for being French, it’s quite a tradition your side has going. Make a final every 12 years, gouge some eyes and go home losers. If you’re that annoyed about it, why don’t you send some agents down here to blow something up?
October 27th 2011 @ 6:05pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 6:05pm | Report comment
France, NZ, and SA all have a history of dirty, violent players. Thankfully, Australia does not
October 27th 2011 @ 6:20pm
Sage said | October 27th 2011 @ 6:20pm | Report comment
You are a sledgehammer man Jerry, no doubt
October 27th 2011 @ 6:57pm
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
I generally try to be fairly reasonable, but there’s been some real trolls over the last few days and I can’t be bothered taking them seriously. And let’s face it, I’ve got ‘Look at the scoreboard’ up my sleeve, which is basically the trump card when dealing with whiny trolls (though “Your boys are eye gougers’ works pretty well too).
My favourite was Frog accusing the AB’s of poaching while singing the praises of Ivory Coast born Thierry Dusatoir.
October 29th 2011 @ 1:11am
Gaullois said | October 29th 2011 @ 1:11am | Report comment
Jerry,
T. Dussautoir is french, her father was a white french. Like Blanco was 50/50. And what is your problem about this ?
October 27th 2011 @ 8:49pm
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
Sorry Jerry but I don’t understand what is “why don’t you send some agents down here to blow something up?” can you use other words. It’s not easy for me to speak English.
But never you repply about Mccaw Parra video, have you seen or not ? You can see the punch before knee. And here there is honnor for McCaw. And a capitain winner which doesn’t go salute the adversary, what do you think about this? It’s too easy man, wait the next match it will be fight, and here you can write bad thingss about us.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:51pm
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
Yes, I’ve seen it and it baffles me how anyone can think it was deliberate. He is looking at Dusatoir and goes straight into him to clear him out. Any contact with Parra is clearly accidental for my mind.
October 27th 2011 @ 9:49pm
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
But you don’t see the punch ? And the punch on Mermoz and the both dangerous “plakes” (i don’t know if it’s the ggod word) on the french heads ?
And McCaw in the ruck always not on his feet or stay in the french side to lock the play ?
Oh please, be greater that this.
October 27th 2011 @ 10:16pm
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
Jerry,
The video of McCaw
October 27th 2011 @ 8:23am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:23am | Report comment
It’s nice to hear the French point of view: we hear the New Zealand point of view so unrelentingly it’s good to realise there is another side to arguments.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:28am
thurl said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:28am | Report comment
KPM, I’m enjoying this French point of view as well. Its hilarious
October 27th 2011 @ 8:31am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:31am | Report comment
thurl I don’t know whether you’re Australian or Kiwi, but I agree with much of what he says, on the knee to Parra and Joubert, and it’s good to hearing something different to the monopoly of New Zealand opinion and their refusal to ever admit the very smallest fault in any matter and to demonise the opposition and claim they’re guilty of everything under the sun.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:32am
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Me too.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:33am
katzilla said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Not just Kiwis KPM, anyone with half a brain can see McCaw only looks at Dusatoir as being over the ball when he makes contact.
Brett McKay acknowledged as much yesterday to you. You know hes not a Kiwi don’t you?
Of course you do, but you’ll ignore that won’t you because it suits your argument.
October 27th 2011 @ 6:30pm
Emric said | October 27th 2011 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
KPM
When NZ gets knocked out of the competition (food posining, forward pass?) The world tells us to suck it up and that we are sore losers. When we finally win it the world blames the ref and tells us that we suck at the sport and need the ref on our side to win.
October 27th 2011 @ 9:42pm
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Thanks to kingplaymaker, I’m french and it’s difficult for me and my nation to listen now: The frenchs are like this and like this. You must agree that the French team was better this night, and only the French team afraids the ABs Team. We play with the feeling, we love this sport and the spirit of rugby. Here in South west of France is a religion, a life style. We like the good match even we lost, but not like this. And we can’t accept that the winner insult the looser like this, see you before to speak. For us the ABs was a great team but not now, before the match your team and the press have been obnoxious with us, and we have said nothing wrong on the ABs despite this. We let the blacks play in black, nothing not between manager even thanks. Insults continued more and more, even the English who are our best enemies have always been outraged by your behaviour and yet they are never tender with us. After the match your Captain will not even acknowledge the team of France, shame. The Haka lack of respect for the French? I dream, if a team has met your Haka is the France, because your dance of war to be recognized and have the weight it deserves must be opponent in the face and it’s the France it has been understood. It was contrary to what is said an honour that it made you. Even the NZ the exclude seems t – it.
France team is back in France and all the French commended them for their bravery. For us they are winners. Lievremont and Captain Dussautoir were still congratuled the ABs team and not intended to respond to the controversy of the NZ media, it is the honour and respect of Rugby. Think it and start to have some respect for the France team makes you tremble and have so strong emotions. Respect please.
October 28th 2011 @ 6:48am
Capital said | October 28th 2011 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Gallouis
The french were outstanding on the night. Dusautoir was immense, as was Harinordoquy, and Rougerie.
Unfortunately, the constant moaning about Joubert is typical where 2 sides play well and one lose – it was not Joubert’s fault … France did not take their opportunities.
The french were excellent – addressing the haka, playing wonderful rugby and putting immense pressure on the ABs, but at the critical part of the match – in the last 10 minutes, ABs were clinical and french played negatively – expecting an indiscretion to win the match kicking.
Your team were excellent. I doubt anyone doubts that, or believes otherwise, they made the second part of a great final.
However, the bleating about Parra is unwarranted, look in real time – not slow motion, he was cleaened out, not intentionally kneed as some choose to believe. This dilutes the achievements of your team.
And Rougerie – sorry, I thought he was immense and viewing the actions on McCaw – were a disgrace.
My thoughts, its a shame we can’t enjoy the spectacle of two great rugby nations playing a great match. France were excellent, ABs were very good and in my opinion deserving champions.
October 29th 2011 @ 1:20am
Gaullois said | October 29th 2011 @ 1:20am | Report comment
Capital,
Oh yes on PArra if you see slowly you can see a puch before the knee. It’s sure. I don’t know if you play Rugny but if you ask to each player, all say you that the punch of McCaw is wanted. And McCaw was all time in the ruck to lock the ball in our side or not in front or not on his feet. All players say you that after 3, 4 or 5 times if the arbitror don’t say somethnig the team must do something to punish the player in fault.
No Joubert was 100% with you in fact. But I’m sure if we speak more and better English to the arbitror as Mccaw done it during all the match maybe il was not the same ref…but not sure beacause it was important that the ABs win to NZ and Joubert was afraid. I want so much see the next test match and CHABAL break ABs, don’t car about victory just break ABs. Here we will be bullies YES
October 29th 2011 @ 7:31pm
capital said | October 29th 2011 @ 7:31pm | Report comment
Gallouis
Just watching the final again and your comments about Parra – McCaw I will never agree with.
October 30th 2011 @ 7:23am
Gaullois said | October 30th 2011 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Capital,
Have you seen again the Donald penality ? If you see slowly you don’t see something strange ? Maybe that the penality is not good..maybe..
Did McCaw finally welcomed the team France or the NZ continu to insult us ? Here, we have not much information on this subject. The press here said just that the NZ press harasses the French. French, they no longer want to talk about or then they would have much to say but don’t liket to do so. They respect the Rugby.
And McCaw put a punch to Parra, YES !
October 27th 2011 @ 8:29am
katzilla said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Unrelenting?
The irony of your using that word overwhelms me KPM, im afraid I must now go and lie down.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:35am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Gaullois s’il vous plait porter des amis sur cet site alors que nous pouvons entendre des idées différentes que celles de nouvelle zéland.
Katzilla I have heard many opinions from outside New Zealand on this and most think it was intentional, but then they may only have half a brain as they are not New Zealanders.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:42am
katzilla said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:42am | Report comment
The thing is KPM,
If I ask you for proof of your statements, you will provide none.
Therefore your claims to have ‘heard many opinions from outside New Zealand on this and most think it was intentional’ holds no weight what so ever.
You might as well say that God visited you in Willy Wonkas Chocolate river whilst you were making love to an Ommpa Loompa. Its all the same. No one believes you.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:42am
Brett McKay said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Half a brain?!? Are you serious KPM?!? I’m so glad I took the time to offer my thoughts and explanations then, if this is how it’s received….
October 27th 2011 @ 8:48am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:48am | Report comment
The RWC is only the beginning, one day when New Zealand rule the world with their superior minds all will bow before the haka and any transgression will be punished with a five year sentence to live in somewhere like Invercargill.
October 27th 2011 @ 9:09am
Brett McKay said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:09am | Report comment
At the moment I can only go with
Does anyone know the emoticon for “You’re not just condescending, you might actually be serious”??
October 27th 2011 @ 11:48am
MR01 said | October 27th 2011 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Brett – An Aussie with half a brain – Doesn’t that classify you as gifted ?
Just kidding %-)
October 27th 2011 @ 1:28pm
Brett McKay said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
MR, ye-ouch!!
October 27th 2011 @ 1:44pm
MR01 said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Brett – I appreciate your input & voice of reason here (even when you’re wrong). As per a previous post of mine, with the RWC I’ve noticed a level of vitriol a few notches higher than usual. Hopefully it’ll disappear by the time the new 4 Nations comes around & we can get back to the usual “Ritchie/Pocock/Matfield is a cheat” “We woz robbed by the ref”, etc, etc…..
October 27th 2011 @ 9:13am
Hoy said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:13am | Report comment
For the record I think McCaw didn’t do it deliberately. Although I have heard some crazy things on this site recently.
HOWEVER…
I do recall people saying that when Cooper kneed McCaw in the head (different circumstances I know) people said even though he wasn’t looking, it was deliberate.
October 27th 2011 @ 9:19am
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Cooper was looking at McCaw immediately before he kneed him though. He looks away a fraction of a second before his knee connects. Cooper was also stationary with McCaw lying still, whereas McCaw was in the act of clearing out Dusatoir and Parra was raising his head.
October 27th 2011 @ 10:09am
Hoy said | October 27th 2011 @ 10:09am | Report comment
That is why I put the disclaimer Jerry.
But… you could argue that if McCaw didn’t have his head raised, as Cooper brought his knee forward to get up out of the ruck, he wouldn’t have copped it. Parra was getting up off the ground as well. Anyway, we can argue semantics all day. I don’t think either were as bad as everyone is saying. These things happen. For people to argue that McCaw didn’t do it because he wasn’t looking, but Cooper did it because he looked previously… You say potatoe… I say McCaw would have had a look at Parra on the way in surely? I don’t McCaw hit him deliberatly, but he could have done it exactly like that if he wanted.
October 27th 2011 @ 10:24am
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 10:24am | Report comment
I suspect most people are merely watching the slow mo replay, Hoy.
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html
You can watch the incident in real time here (it’s at 9:40 on the game clock, 18:50 on the video) and it’s apparent how little time McCaw would have actually had to be able to both hit Parra and clear out Dusatoir.
October 27th 2011 @ 5:01pm
Kuruki said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
Ive played Rugby for many years and i cant remember how many times i have copped an accidental knee from somebody hitting a ruck, it happened plenty of times. Not once however did i ever have someone rake my eyes with there fingers. A poke in the eye, yes that could be accidental, physically clenching your fingers into somebodys eye socket is always intentional.
October 27th 2011 @ 7:46am
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:46am | Report comment
See the video with Parra and McCaw on your tube and see whos has honnor ! You don’t make honor to previous ABs team. SHAME on ABs during this finale and to 16 man (AB) JOUBERT
October 27th 2011 @ 8:16am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:16am | Report comment
‘Contre nous de la tyrannie’ of Joubert.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:30am
katzilla said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Seriously, stop the crying, you do French men a disservice.
October 27th 2011 @ 10:15pm
Gaullois said | October 27th 2011 @ 10:15pm | Report comment
So stop to insult us in your forum and newspaper, is enough.
October 27th 2011 @ 12:52pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
that’s a good point
October 27th 2011 @ 7:43am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:43am | Report comment
I certainly agree on Joubert Gaullois.
October 30th 2011 @ 2:40am
Jimm said | October 30th 2011 @ 2:40am | Report comment
All Blacks TOO BIG TOO STRONG FOR LES BLUEZ!!!!
October 27th 2011 @ 7:22am
Under arm said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Why doesn’t the ARU just tell the All Blacks that they cant do the Haka next time they play in Australia, oh that’s right it adds to the spectacle and is one of the things that makes Rugby Unique. Simple fact is the All Blacks will just do it in the Change rooms before the game like they did against wales and I bet you will be crying just as much as the Welsh supports did if it happens. As for Cooper the guy (along with Australian Media trying to build up a rivalry between him and Macaw) bought it on himself trying to get under Riches skin, and when it back fired big time you want to cry about it lol.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:39pm
BigMal said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
And going by your tag you’re still crying about somthing that happened over 25 years ago.
October 27th 2011 @ 7:22am
sheek said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:22am | Report comment
This is all totally ridiculous. Only Moaman is anywhere close to the reality.
It seems everyone only wants to see what they want to see – rabidly highlighting everyone else’s faults, while conveniently ignoring their own. A very typical human behavioural trait. Very typical.
The haka is a challenge to perform great deeds, to bring glory to both the victors & the vanquished. In this respect, it is a universal calling.
The IRB is actually protecting the haka, laying out protocols preventing someone in a moment of fired up emotion from doing something stupid.
The French broke the protocols, it’s no big deal. They knew exactly what they were doing, & were happy to cop the fine. Nothing & no-one got out of control. Get over it.
The behaviour of elements of NZers to Cooper is a separate issue. Morons exist in EVERY country, repeat, EVERY country. We have plenty of them here in Australia right now, especially in federal parliament!
October 27th 2011 @ 8:16am
kingplaymaker said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:16am | Report comment
Sheek that would have to include Graham Henry though.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:34am
Brett McKay said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Well said, Sheek. It’d be a mighty disappointing day in rugby if a crowd turned it’s back on the Haka…
October 27th 2011 @ 8:37am
katzilla said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Sheek,
Now is not the time for common sense.
October 27th 2011 @ 9:01am
sheek said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Katzilla,
You gave me my first laugh of the day – thanking you…..!
October 27th 2011 @ 10:29am
Steve said | October 27th 2011 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Thank You Sheek, Brett you actually add something to this website.
I really love getting on these websites and discussing the ins and outs of a good game of Rugby. The unfortunate thing is they seem to being over run with zealots and ignorant bigots. As Sheek said every country and team has its idiots and booing Cooper was not on, as were many other actions during the RWC. However as an overall spectacle this was a great tournament, and I had a blast watch far more rugby than my wife appreciated.
As for turning your back on the Haka you are free to do as you please, it is a challenge to honour yourself and your ancestors accept or ignore that challenge however you see fit.
I have an opinion about the McCaw Gouge and Knee but it has already been said with far more venom and ignorance that I can possible muster.
October 27th 2011 @ 12:58pm
Moaman said | October 27th 2011 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
” Only Moaman is anywhere close to the reality. ” Talk about damned with faint praise! ;-(
October 27th 2011 @ 8:08pm
sheek said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:08pm | Report comment
Sorry Moaman – that should have read – only Moaman is actually onto the reality!
October 27th 2011 @ 1:00pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
I have never seen bad elements in an Australian rugby crowd, going back to the days of the olf Hill…Never!
Kiwis are different. They do have a problem element that is noticed
Sheek, our parliament is a different matter
October 27th 2011 @ 2:58pm
sheek said | October 27th 2011 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
Armband,
You’re kidding right. Tossing full cans of beer (not aluminum either) on the SCG hill was alright, was it? Oh, & never mind the frequent fights that broke out between alcohol fueled-up fans. And the abuse yelled at the opposition.
I don’t mean witty banter, but full-blooded, vicious abuse.
I have a certain nostalgia for the hill. But unfortunately, it was the ‘idiots’ who were unable to control their unsocial behaviour, that led to its eventual demise.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:02pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
I can only repeat. I have never seen ill behaved Aussie rugby supporters
October 27th 2011 @ 1:17pm
beyond the stump said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
well said sheek and to you too moaman. i agree with you both.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:03pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:03pm | Report comment
yesw they are both so brave I can’t reply to them
October 27th 2011 @ 1:43pm
Will Sinclair said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Thank God for Sheek!
October 28th 2011 @ 9:24pm
etta 123 said | October 28th 2011 @ 9:24pm | Report comment
Perhaps South Africa should do Zulu War challenges before their games.Why can NZ challenge and nobody else
November 13th 2011 @ 8:27pm
Mana said | November 13th 2011 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
@etta 123
“Perhaps South Africa should do Zulu War challenges before their games. Why can NZ challenge and nobody else”?
Manu Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, Papua New Guinea, Cook Islands all have their own challenge before each game, even the Aboriginal Rugby League Team who in the past have played the Maori Rugby League which is very intense I must say, have their traditional challenge also and have traditionally been performing it for many years.
As for the South African team doing a Zulu War challenge, no comment, perhaps some feedback from a South African would like to comment on why they dont have a traditional war challenge.
October 27th 2011 @ 7:36am
katzilla said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Would you like a tissue?
October 27th 2011 @ 7:42am
thurl said | October 27th 2011 @ 7:42am | Report comment
Is it just me, or have the Kiwis diminished themselves, just a bit, in the way they have gone about this World Cup?
That really says it all doesn’t it. This article isn’t about the haka, or the world cup or the All Blacks. If it had anything to do with rugby it would be a bit more accurate. It just a further example of a very common Australian view on NZ. A typical big brother attitude of “Gee, little brother has done something to be proud of….best not give him too much credit, best to remind him of whose boss here”
You deserve it but you weren’t the best team on the night and you were saved by a poor referee. ….Really !!!…. in that last bit you’re actually saying that we don’t deserve it. What is the point of being an Indian giver?
I don’t mind the attitude,. Its been around for decades and its not unique to Australians and it gives us the satisfaction of knowing that you’re irritated.However, I just wonder what purpose this article serves. People are allowed to have an opinion, for sure, but where are the facts, evidence or even a well thought out argument to support the opinion. Inaccurate, sweeping glib statements don’t cut it and do the Roar a disservice. This article sets a low standard, and encourages low standard responses
C’mon Roar administrators, start insisting that contributions are accurate and contain some intelligent thought
October 27th 2011 @ 1:03pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
If the moderators here allowed truth and accuracy, what we could say about Kiwis of a certain stripe would be well known
However, the moderators will play it safe and leave the Kiwis to the magistrate
October 27th 2011 @ 6:29pm
rae1 said | October 27th 2011 @ 6:29pm | Report comment
Its just you.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:10am
mactheblack said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:10am | Report comment
The Haka was a reminder to Cooper and the boys what they are dealing with … you insult an AB at your peril! I say let them turn their backs on the haka … but let the opposition sign an indemnity if they are wanting to, as the ABs won’t be held responsible for their reply to such an insult. Even the IRB is saying hands off rugby’s treasured haka! Good on them. Us All Black fans in SA love it … we ask for absolute quiet and turn up the TV volume to an absolute crescendo, when the war cry begins. The day the haka disappears, it will be like ripping our hearts out of our chests down in SA. Ex-Kiwi Quade Blooper should teach the boys what is the tradition behind the haka. Maybe they can do their own version in the dressing-room? Really are all these silly ideas, going to diminish what the ABs rightfully achieved on the night of October 23 at Eden Park? NEVER!! Let’s put them to bed.
October 27th 2011 @ 12:21pm
jameswm said | October 27th 2011 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
What a crock.
Sam Scott Young used to wink at the ABs and blow kisses at them during the haka. How did the ABs punish him for the insult? By losing to the Aussies every time he played.
The Aussies just need a pack who is up for it, bu unfortunately that doesn’t happen often enough. It should happen every game.
October 27th 2011 @ 1:29pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
exactly. That’s why we need to convert league players over. Could you imagine Famous Oz league props of the past taking nonsense from this lot of All Blacks?
October 27th 2011 @ 3:20pm
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
The famous OZ league props of the past would have their spines compacted and their internal organs pushed out their arses in the first couple of scrums.
October 27th 2011 @ 4:24pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
really, tell that to Beetson, Sattler, Pogo Morgan & some others, like Carroll or Harrigan in later years. I think Rex Mossop was a lock or second row in rugby before going to league and Propping for m
Manly. He used to knock the ABs about.
Dallas Donnelly would probably provoke the ABs waiting for an excuse to deck one. He had a shocking record of violence
You make a big claim
October 27th 2011 @ 4:27pm
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
Because front row is such a specialised position in Union and very few of the body type that make good rugby props are able to play rugby league at any high level. Harrigan and Tonie Carroll would get folded in half if they tried to pack down in a union front row.
October 27th 2011 @ 5:13pm
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
And just for the sake of fairness, the likes of Owen Franks or Tony Woodcock wouldn’t have the mobility or cardiovascular fitness to play rugby league at the elite level.
October 27th 2011 @ 5:07pm
soapit said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
willie mason might disagree with you about leaguies being able to sort out the haka
October 27th 2011 @ 5:12pm
Kuruki said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Haha another uneducated fan comparing league to rugby. A league prop would be put in hospital if he packed down in a scrum at international level. Don’t believe me? Go and ask one for yourself.
October 27th 2011 @ 3:01pm
sheek said | October 27th 2011 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
And that Jameswm,
Is at the very heart of the matter. Whenever we lose to the ABs, some dill will always blame the haka.
The haka has nothing to do with it. It’s the lack of mental & physical toughness in our own boys that is the problem.
October 27th 2011 @ 4:53pm
Jerry said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
Funnilly enough, I recall periods when Aus was on top of the AB’s for a sustained period (eg 91-94 or 99-02) and people would invariably point at the Haka as being a disadvantage to the AB’s as it meant they had less nervous energy to start the match and came out flat.
October 27th 2011 @ 10:04pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
Yes, true
October 27th 2011 @ 3:43pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
quote
” The Haka was a reminder to Cooper and the boys what they are dealing with ”
If what you say is true, them their attitude must change. It’s only a game
quote
” you insult an AB at your peril! I say let them turn their backs on the haka … but let the opposition sign an indemnity if they are wanting to, as the ABs won’t be held responsible for their reply to such an insult.”
See, proves me right about the Haka. Get rid of it
mactheblack. Methinks you are a suspected boofhead
October 27th 2011 @ 5:22pm
Kuruki said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
quote
” The Haka was a reminder to Cooper and the boys what they are dealing with ”
If what you say is true, them their attitude must change. It’s only a game
quote
Maybe it’s the Aussies attitude that needs to change. When the Ab’s play Aussie they are going to war. Maybe that is the difference between the teams at the moment. We come prepared for battle. You come out to play.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:07pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:07pm | Report comment
that is the difference. It’s NOT a war. It’s rugby
October 28th 2011 @ 11:03am
Kuruki said | October 28th 2011 @ 11:03am | Report comment
And thats exactly why the All Blacks are the best team in the world and have been for many years. So keep telling yourself that. Thats why your team cant get up for games more often. They lack passion. They are playing a game for a paycheck. our boys are going to war for our country.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:28am
California said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Cooper = Muralidharn.
Aussie’s houded MURALI till he retired. Crime, Better than Shane Warne.
October 27th 2011 @ 9:27am
Simon said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Australian who complain about how their sporting players are treated by crowds overseas make me laugh.
The hypocrisy is hilarious.
What’s next, Australians complaining about sledging?
October 27th 2011 @ 12:18pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Australian crowds don’t physically threaten others the way some NZer of a certain cultural type do. Kiwis have a real chip on their shoulder
Sadly for both of us, they will take their place as an Australian State as was originally intended in our constitution.
The day is coming
October 27th 2011 @ 4:42pm
Simon said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
Wear on All Black jumper to a Bledisloe Cup game at Homebush, and get the train both ways. Better still, let your 10 year old son wear an All Black jumper as well – and then tell me Australian crowds are not as bad as NZ crowds.
Australians can dish it out, but can’t take it (witness the squealing when Graeme Smith blew the whistle on sledging, or when Sarwan returned serve to the foul-mouthed McGrath …)
October 27th 2011 @ 5:12pm
soapit said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
i’d be very surprised if a 10 year old got physically threatened to and from any sport in australia, but particularly rugby union, just because of the jersey they had on. in fact i’d be backing the majority of the rugby crowd to stick up for the young fella in that situation. you sure this actually happened?
October 27th 2011 @ 5:17pm
JVGO said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
Do Warriors fans get treated this way? Or Phoenix fans? Or the many Kiwis in Newcastle the other day? Maybe it’s a RU thing. Or an All Black thing.
October 27th 2011 @ 5:55pm
dc said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
Simon
Oh yes ! I do remember when Graeme Smith revealed the very dirty underside of Aussie sledging in the cricket. ..didn’t the establishment here try to discredit him so viciously!
I am a kiwi and a little bit over the haka, except when the French challenge it…that was electrifying! If the Aussie’s don’t want it, they can ban it, or the fans can ignore it, like other things you don’t like in life…it seems the global audience loves it, maybe the Aussies have seen it too many times thru the Tri-Nations…ten losses in a row would be rough..
Having said that the haka is a cultural event and I would hope as young nations us Kiwis can hold onto it..
Maybe the Aussies should sing True Blue before every match?
October 27th 2011 @ 8:10pm
amband said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
A Train at Homebush. Mulitcultural train was it?
I am referring to violence, not harmless sledging. Sections of NZers, especially those historically & culturally attached to the Haka can be violent
The Aussies are not violent
October 27th 2011 @ 10:40pm
Simon said | October 27th 2011 @ 10:40pm | Report comment
So sledging is harmless? Fair enough, but that must make booing harmless too – which means the Australian media and public getting all hot & bothered about QC being booed are too sensitive. Glad we agreed on that one.
October 27th 2011 @ 1:09pm
JVGO said | October 27th 2011 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
There was at the time a very serious discussion in the Australian sporting community re the booing and prank no balling of Muralitharan and the consensus was that it was inappropriate and unfortunate. It is possibly time for NZers to have a similar discussion among themselves regarding their level of sportamanship.
October 27th 2011 @ 2:03pm
Rucknroll said | October 27th 2011 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
The consensus was correct but did it actually make a difference? Not for a very long time, actually it only changed when Muralitharan was close to retiring. If that’s the case then Quade’s got a long way to go.
1 major flaw in argument regarding Muralitharan vs Quade….Quade’s actions were deliberate whereas Murali’s was not (in terms of cynical acts directed towards a particular individual)…
October 27th 2011 @ 5:44pm
Kuruki said | October 27th 2011 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
There is no sporting crowd in the Southern Hemisphere more feral then what i have witnessed in the stands at an AFL match. I love how the Kiwi’s are being told to lay off Cooper who basically asked for what he received, yet it’s common place with the racial abuse thrown out to any man of color during a club footy match in Australia. And thats an internal competition.
Cooper left his country of birth and upbringing only to return representing our greatest sporting rivals. If that was not enough he started a sideshow with the captain of our countries greatest sporting team. Seriously what the hell do you think was going to happen when he arrived on home soil?. The New Zealand crowd achieved exactly what they set out to achieve, i think people are just so cut up about it because they realize just how much influence the Kiwi supporters had over the Aussie performance. We had your whole team concentrating on this whole protect Cooper sideshow that they forgot they had to play some Rugby. It was bloody brilliant.
October 27th 2011 @ 3:06pm
Justin said | October 27th 2011 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
One was a cheat or cant I say that anymore? Mind you he was still a bloody good cheat!
October 27th 2011 @ 8:33am
PeterK said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:33am | Report comment
It was the IRB who are at fault re the haka. It was ludicrous they fined the french.
The IRB are also hypocrites re the haka protocols, the AB’s constantly go past the 10 metre line , notably Ali Williams, and in the final Kahui, the AB’s are never fined for breaking the protocols. IRB has a double standard.
I do agree Joubert had stage fright at the end and was scared to give a deserving penalty to the french. Joubert was inconsistent, he penalised the French for not rolling away but at the end when the AB’s constantly laid on the wrong side he ignored etc, ie he penalised for some offences but when it got tight he refused to be consistent and this hugley favoured the AB’s allowing them to constantly infringe and kill the french attack.
October 27th 2011 @ 8:37am
Brett McKay said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:37am | Report comment
PK, the IRB didn’t cross the line..
Inconsistency in how they hand down these protocol fines is another issue completely, and on that I agree with you.
October 27th 2011 @ 9:03am
sheek said | October 27th 2011 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Ditto…..
October 27th 2011 @ 8:07pm
Kane said | October 27th 2011 @ 8:07pm | Report comment
But isn’t the rule that they must stay 10 meters away from each other? The French did not get fined for advancing they got fined for crossing the halfway line. They knew the rules so they have no one to blame but themselves