Will the Waratahs Fan Forum deliver another roasting?
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The Waratahs have to be applauded for sticking with their fan forums, the next of which is to be held on the evening of 24 November 2011.
The ‘Tahs, by all accounts, copped an absolute roasting at their first forum, including from a former (but apparently unrecognised) Wallaby in the form of Terry Curley.
I expect I won’t be able to get there, again, but I find that the fire in my belly that I had earlier in the year has abated.
I am willing to see how the new coach Michael Foley, and especially backs coach Alan Gaffney (given the complaints about the backs play), will go before firing up the torch and pulling out the pitchfork again. Having said that, they are just resting – ready to go again if required.
Some suggested questions that spring to mind include:
- Why do we have to rely on importing a half back from South Africa? With no disprespect to Sarel Pretorius, where was our plan to groom a replacement for Luke Burgess if and when he went.
If Brendan McKibbin was good enough to suddenly drop into the semi, what’s wrong with him? What went wrong with the previous plan? Is there a plan to use having Pretorius to groom some talent, so we aren’t in the position of (for the first in a long time I can remember) we don’t have a NSW half back that isn’t in the running for the Wallabies?
- What happened with Ben Mowen? Why and how did we let go of this (apparent) talent? Are we missing something? Noting that Foley was part of the coaching team at the time, how was a major recruiting decision like letting him go made when the new coach hadn’t been decided?
- Who’s captain for next year? With no disrespect to Dean Mumm, he seems a No 6, not a lock. Kane Douglas is 202cm and 122kg, Sitaleki Timani 203cm and 120kg, Dan Vickerman 203cm and 120kg. Dean is 198cm and 113kg.
With Rocky Elsom the Wallabies No 6 (last time I checked), if Dean is captain as seems to be the suggestion, where’s he playing?
- How does the team plan on playing a more running game, or to the extent they play a kicking game (noting the Reds did it when needed and were still “exciting”) play a more skilled and smarter one than last year? What were the problems identified in this regard from 2011, and what is being done to fix them?
- The team seemed to lack some structure in the try scoring department last season, with a reliance more on flair and opportunism than building tries. Does Alan have a play book the boys are working on in secret to bamboozle the opposition?
- While noting our forwards are one of our strengths, are the forwards going to do more running onto the balls the halfback pops from the ruck, rather than standing there so many times with a startled look on their face and then getting monstered behind the gain line?
I’m interested to see what fellow Roarers think about other questions that might be put.
For more details on the Fan Forum – see here.
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November 5th 2011 @ 7:23am
jeznez said | November 5th 2011 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Sheek, that last one and the Mumm question are the key ones for me
I don’t see how Mumm can be captain as he doesn’t warrant a starting spot.
For the piggies ball running, the dumb play spread to the Wallabies who used it to the expected effect in losing the semi of the RWC – if that creeps into the Tahs game again we won’t just need pitchforks and flaming torches at the next forum, we should all walk in with chainsaws and dismantle the building.
To add a couple of question given Robinson, Polota-Nau, Vickerman, Palu are some of the biggest names in our forward pack and have all missed significant time through injury – what is being done to ensure they don’t break down again? With the loss of Mowen who is Palu’s back up?
November 5th 2011 @ 7:32am
Sportfreak said | November 5th 2011 @ 7:32am | Report comment
It will be interesting. This year’s draw will most certainly result in much larger crowds- will this paper over the cracks. Sponsorships are up again on last year and I think the tahs crowd needs to do their part and properly support their team rather than sit there and expect to be entertained. Any idea where the regional trials will be held?
November 5th 2011 @ 8:57am
Big Steve said | November 5th 2011 @ 8:57am | Report comment
The dean mumm question is the st important for me. Going through the team he wouldnt even bo on my bench. Timani and vickerman starting at lock. back row alcock, elsom, palu. with dennis and douglas on the bench. although with dennis bieng able to olay lock the might have dennis and mcaffery/perret on the bench. The captain choice will have major impacts on the attitude off the playets and supporters this year.
i also thibk mcaffery will get some time at 8 this year. same as fitzpatrick at hooker.
Forum will be interesting as i dobt think we really saw as much change as we wanted after the last one. the choice of foleyy doesnt make me think thrte will be a major ovrrhall of the game plan this year.
November 5th 2011 @ 12:18pm
jeznez said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
agree mate, but Timani will only return mid season after his Japan stint and Vickerman may miss the start of the season given he is having a shoulder reconstruction. Palu and Elsom have both had significant injuries Mumm will see playing time this year. I don’t want him as captain though as later in the season if the Tah pack gets to full strength then I see it as you do and wouldn’t have him in the 22
November 7th 2011 @ 10:38am
Jimmy James said | November 7th 2011 @ 10:38am | Report comment
McCaffrey has gone to the force.
Fitzpatrick needs to improve his scrummaging before get more minutes on the field. I was more then impressed with how Ulugia improved over the season.
November 8th 2011 @ 11:21am
Bakkies said | November 8th 2011 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Ulugia was still poor. He was a solid player at the Brumbies but was squeezed out because of reduced squads and Edmonds and Moore in the squad.
November 5th 2011 @ 9:25am
greg said | November 5th 2011 @ 9:25am | Report comment
I think the biggest problem with the waratahs is their fans. You could give every fan fifty dollars and a very vocal section of the supposed fan base would complain
November 5th 2011 @ 12:58pm
Bakkies said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
It’s a problem in Australian rugby not just the Tahs
November 7th 2011 @ 4:56pm
Stuart Fazakerley said | November 7th 2011 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
Speak for yourself, say the Rebels
November 5th 2011 @ 4:16pm
drop kick said | November 5th 2011 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
well said Greg!
November 5th 2011 @ 10:19am
Working Class Rugger said | November 5th 2011 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Bay,
Some very good observations in your line of questioning. Hopefully someone that will be attending the forum will read this and jot these questions down. You highlight a few issues that in my opinion could determine the Tahs ability to compete in the top echelon of Super Rugby next year. The first being the issue of the Captaincy. Anyone but Mumm. However, it seems inevitable. The others as you rightly identified is this habit a receiving the ball from a stationary stance and have to battle for every each. I was taught to always hit the line at pace. Why receiving the ball standing still is beyond me. They’ll find it easier to make metres hitting it at speed.
November 5th 2011 @ 12:11pm
Crazy Horse said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
As a Force fan I really hope that nepotism sees Dean Mumm as Waratahs captain. He was hopeless when Waugh was injured last year.
November 5th 2011 @ 12:30pm
jeznez said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Been ruminating on the captaincy question and I break it down like this.
Mumm – has captained the team already and annointed as the heir to Waugh, unfortunately if the team is fully fit he struggles to make the 22.
Elsom – has captained the Wallabies, will he want to captain the Tahs? Hasn’t played a lot of Super Rugby in the last couple of years and had the Wallaby leadership taken from him.
Barnes – automatic first choice player and has been named as a Wallaby vice captain – is he over his head knock issues?
Other automatic selections but whose personalities may not lend to them leading are Robinson, Kepu, Mitchell and Turner
Automatic selections who miss a lot of game time through injury Polota-Nau, Palu and Horne.
My roughie for Captaincy would be Dan Vickerman – a senior player, automatic first choice when fit, hard as nails and sets high standards
November 5th 2011 @ 12:32pm
jeznez said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Plus if you call him Captain Dan he sounds like a pirate.
November 5th 2011 @ 12:41pm
Working Class Rugger said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Yes, it would sound like a pirate. However, from the stories of his ferocity both in games and training you’d have to be very careful and selective in its use or otherwise be dealt the consequences. He’s evidently a nice guy outside of Rugby but fierce within it. Would be a good captain actually. Sought of lead by example, do as I do or you’ll know about it sought of guy. Mumm far to gentleman like for a game as intensely physical and combative as Rugby.
November 7th 2011 @ 9:05am
Rickety Knees said | November 7th 2011 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Agree WCR – Vickers would be my choice as well. I also believe that he would be well suited to manage referees – he is articulate and smart. Barnes would be my VC and would run the backs. I believe that they would work well together. Mumm has well and truly had his turn and has been found wanting.
November 5th 2011 @ 12:47pm
p.Tah said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
If I had a vote, I’d vote for Barnes.
November 5th 2011 @ 1:22pm
jeznez said | November 5th 2011 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
might not be clear from my initial commet but Barnes is my second choice if he is over his head knocks. Also think TPN woul be a great captain if he could play 80 minutes and be injury free – would be inspiring with his actions on the field
November 6th 2011 @ 1:15pm
mattamkII said | November 6th 2011 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
agree
November 5th 2011 @ 12:45pm
p.Tah said | November 5th 2011 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Obviously the style of play will dominate discussions. Gaffney’s comments that he and Foley want the Tahs to focus on attacking kicking in 2012 is interesting http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/old-master-returns-to-paint-waratahs-in-his-own-image/story-e6frg7o6-1226186210589
Their rationale for doing so makes senses, let’s hope the players can execute it. Kickimg is fine as long as it leads to attacking play… I guess that’s why they’re calling it attacking kicking
One complaint from the 1st forum was that the Tahs didn’t connect with the community. It appears they are making a better effort (or better promoting it) in 2012. http://www.waratahs.com.au/Waratahs/News/NewsArticle/tabid/157/ArticleID/4867/Default.aspx
November 5th 2011 @ 7:31pm
Working Class Rugger said | November 5th 2011 @ 7:31pm | Report comment
They were at my on school on October 31st.
November 5th 2011 @ 9:26pm
p.Tah said | November 5th 2011 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
WCR, was there much interest in Union when you were there?
November 5th 2011 @ 10:48pm
Working Class Rugger said | November 5th 2011 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
There were quite number of Rugby player’s at the school during my time. About 5 of the schools 1st XIII were Rugby players. As a school sport however, not particularly. It’s a school resistant to change in many respects. They introduced Rugby as a border sport the year before I finished. I was the only day boy in the 1sts and my brother the only in the 2nds. We competed in place of High in the GPS 2nd and 3rd grade. IMHO, we could have beat the High 1sts with a little more commitment to training. They currently play in the ISA competition.
November 6th 2011 @ 9:01pm
Johnno said | November 6th 2011 @ 9:01pm | Report comment
What school is this WCR, that played instead of sydhey high in 2nds and 3rd wow, is that the Armidale school TAS, i heard they were trying to play in GPS sydney.
November 5th 2011 @ 7:33pm
Working Class Rugger said | November 5th 2011 @ 7:33pm | Report comment
There’s nothing wrong with an intelligent and well executed kicking game. As long as it doesn’t consume all aspects of the game.
November 5th 2011 @ 1:03pm
Bakkies said | November 5th 2011 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
”I am willing to see how the new coach Michael Foley, and especially backs coach Alan Gaffney (given the complaints about the backs play)”
Having seen Foley’s and Gaffney’s coaching styles abroad I would expect more of the same. Gaffney has killed Irish backplay despite having Kearney, Bowe, O’Driscoll, Sexton and co in it. He has coached them to be very lateral. That won’t please the Fans Forum. Foley was a senior coach at Bath under Knuckles and not surprisingly they played 10 man rugby. It went out the window when both of them left.
November 5th 2011 @ 7:10pm
p.Tah said | November 5th 2011 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
That’s what I’m worried about. Hopefully it doesn’t happen at the Tahs.
November 5th 2011 @ 2:27pm
Catnip said | November 5th 2011 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
There may be a different dynamic to this forum as only paid up 2012 season ticket holders/members are eligible to attend.