Hughes, Ponting, and other selection quandaries
By Brett McKay, 6 Dec 2011 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
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- Australian Cricket, Cricket, Phillip Hughes, Ricky Ponting
Will Peter Siddle be on the sidelines for the Adelaide Test? (AP Photo/Tertius Pickard)
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The new National Selection Panel has dodged another series of bullets heading into the second Trans-Tasman Test in Hobart, with injuries again negating the need to make changes to the Australian side.
Changes after a comprehensive nine-wicket victory generally don’t occur anyway, but with any number of unusual sets of circumstances currently surrounding Michael Clarke’s team, changing a winning side wouldn’t seem that out-of-the-ordinary.
So while the selection quandaries haven’t quite raised their ugly collective heads yet, they’re not far around the corner, either. So let’s examine a few that stand out.
Phillip Hughes
It’s the question on everyone’s lips: should Hughes stay, or should he go back to NSW and sort out his business.
He made a crucial century just four Tests ago, in Sri Lanka, and his 88 in the second innings in Johannesburg paved the way for Australia’s gritty, fight-back win after the debacle in Cape Town.
All up, he’s passed thousand runs in 16 Tests, and with three centuries and three fifties from 30 walks to the crease. On the surface, these look like decent numbers, but scratch that surface a little and the numbers, like many of his dismissals, don’t look that pretty at all.
Hughes’ remaining Test innings all involve him being dismissed for 37 or less. Sixteen of those are for scores under 20. On 17 occasions within his 30 innings, he faced less than fifty balls before being dismissed. Of his last six Tests, he has only four scores above 12. None of these seem ideal scenarios for an opening batsman, in my humble opinion.
Jesse Hogan reported in the Fairfax press this week that of his ten innings in Australia, he was out caught in the ‘keeper-gully region seven times, as has been the case now in five of his last six Test innings.
The question, though, isn’t about his abundant talent, or his ability. Both are evident every time he walks out to bat. The problem for him now is that just as the hook shot was Andrew Hilditch’s downfall in the mid-Eighties, opposition bowlers similarly only need one plan for Hughes.
Michael Clarke said after Brisbane that Hughes’ “technique has improved out of sight,” and perhaps it has. Certainly, his head is at least stiller at the point of impact than was once the case.
But double failures in nine-wicket wins never look good, and nor should they be overlooked. If one opener had to make way right now, it’s a decent argument that David Warner currently provides more to the team in terms of his exceptional fielding, and his very occasional leg-breaks. As a bowling option, Hughes makes a superb opening batsman.
The issue for Hughes seems to be that it’s so hard to tell whether he’s in good nick or not. What’s really worrying, too, is that he can’t seem to escape the three slips/two gullies trap, and it’s a matter of when, not if his wicket will fall. That strikes me as being a less than ideal scenario for an opening batsman.
Ricky Ponting
A similar scratch on the surface of Ponting’s numbers may make for equally sombre reading to those of Hughes’.
Ponting has, perhaps, been the biggest beneficiary of the recent fitness merry-go-round surrounding Shaun Marsh and Shane Watson. But he also figures as the hurdle in allowing Watson to slide down the batting order to a position more conducive to his performing as an all-rounder.
While ever Marsh remains injured, and backs aren’t exactly an injury you can come back early from, it would seem that Watson will remain at the top of the order, and likewise, Ponting in the middle.
Ponting’s runs in Johannesburg and Brisbane have also helped stave off the guillotine master for now, and as I wrote for www.cricket.com.au during the First Test, he’s probably won back the chance to end his career on his terms.
If that’s Hobart, or even Sydney, then so be it, that’s his choice. If it’s Perth, then he’s probably earned that right over a glittering career.
Peter Siddle
I read in the aftermath of the First Test win, that the player who perhaps misses Mitchell Johnson the most is Siddle, with the point made that without Johnson’s wide-reaching radar to focus on, you forget how unthreatening Siddle’s bowling can often be.
After his Ashes hat-trick at the ‘Gabba last summer, Siddle spoke of a slightly fuller length being the catalyst for his rare feat. James Pattinson similarly spoke of bowling fuller, after he destroyed New Zealand’s second innings on Sunday.
Yet despite past success with the fuller length at the ‘Gabba, Siddle was back to his default length and general ‘unthreateningness’, and again finished a Test with little to show for it.
His economy was good in Brisbane, but economy on its own isn’t quite enough, just ask Trent Copeland. There’s no questioning Siddle’s effort, but he was picked in the First Test to lead the young quicks in attack. By the end of the match, the young quicks seemed to be doing just fine on their own.
As is the case for Ponting and the fitness of Marsh and Watson, Siddle’s longevity seems dependant on Ryan Harris not rushing back. Or Pat Cummins, for that matter.
Nathan Lyon
The quandary here, happily, is that “which spinner?” hasn’t featured in recent Test selection meetings. In post-Warne times, this is essentially unprecedented, and it’s a wonderful problem to once again have…
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December 6th 2011 @ 7:27am
matt said | December 6th 2011 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Can’t agrgue with any of those guys missing out some time over the summer. Did you think to put Mike Hussey and Brad haddin in your article or you think they are right untill the Ashes. I love the idea of an attack which combines Cummins, Pattinson, Harris, Copeland and Lyon. Starc could be in the mix but needs to get his line and length organised over longer periods to build the pressure which will lead to more edged and swipes across the line for LBW’s.
December 6th 2011 @ 8:43am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Hi Matt, I don’t necessarily think Haddin and Hussey are safe until the Ashes, but their omission here is more to do with column length than guaranteed selection. Haddin, particularly will be doing well again if he sees the summer out.
Hussey is of course the same age as Ponting, and this time last year, his Brisbane century absolutely saved his career. He’s been able to maintain his standards since then too, though had a bit of a quiet time in South Africa. Of he and Ponting, I think Hussey has the best chance of making the 2013 Ashes Tour, but even then, I’m not sure he can..
December 6th 2011 @ 9:40am
Chris said | December 6th 2011 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Unless Haddin has some absolute shockers I think he’s safe until the end of the summer. Which might not be a bad time to hang up the gloves and allow Paine and/orWade to start on the tour of the West Indies.
Bringing Simon Katich back would solve quite a few problems – he’s an in-form opener in his own right, and if he was to partner Hughes, he would help the younger man’s nerves, which I’m sure are fraying at the edges right now. it would also allow Watson to move down to the middle order. Having Warner partner Hughes at the top of the order is a mistake right now, as I don’t think Hughes is settled, and having such an explosive batsman up the other end of the pitch undoubtedly puts more pressure on him.
I see Katich as playing on for another year or so, and then being replaced by Warner.
As much as I admire Marsh’s ability and heart, I am fearful his body won’t allow him to be a permanent member of the team. Same goes for Harris.
I would be developing a roster of Cummins, Pattinson, Copeland, Cutting and Starc to be able to mix and match depending on conditions (both of pitches and injuries).
So, short term my lineup would be
Katich
Hughes
Khawaja
Clarke
Hussey
Watson
Haddin
Cummins
Pattinson
Copeland
Lyon
Medium term, that would change to:
Warner
Hughes
Khawaja
Clarke
Christian
Watson
either Paine or Wade
3 at a time from Pattinson/Copeland/Starc/Cutting/Cummins
Lyon
December 6th 2011 @ 9:54am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Chris, I know you and plenty of others are Simon Katich fans, and I love watching him bat too, but bringing him back doesn’t solve problems at all, if anything it just delays the current problem and creates new ones when you’d have Katich make way eventually. It might pain you to admit it, but I think it’s time to let the idea go..
December 6th 2011 @ 11:12am
Chris said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Brett, I’m not sure you read my reasoning for bringing Katich back. I’ll list them again:
1. He’s the most in-form opener in the country
2. He bats with composure
3. He can act as a mentor for Hughes
4. He is a more than useful spin bowler
Quite frankly I don’t actually find him a particularly attractive batsman to watch, but my point is he is exactly the right sort of player Australia needs at the moment.
I agree he is not a long-term solution, but in my view bringing him back allows Hughes to get settled over the next year or so. I suspect Hughes’ problem is more mental than anything else and needs a support mechanism to release the pressure he is clearly under. Once he is settled, that will be the time to bring Warner in to partner him.
Unfortunately the selectors (both old and new) seem to have marked the Katich file ‘never to play for Australia again’. But I would put forward the theory that having Katich in the team strengthens and balances the team far more than having either/both Ponting and Hussey there.
I’m an old dog, and this is a particularly tasty bone that I’m not going to let go of yet…:)
December 6th 2011 @ 11:27am
Terry Kidd said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Problem Chris … Katich is not opening for NSW so how can he be picked as an opener?
December 6th 2011 @ 12:34pm
Chris said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Because he’s a proven opener at Test level. Katich has played in pretty much every batting position over his career, so just because he isn’t an opener for NSW right now doesn’t mean he can’t do a very successful job for Australia.
December 6th 2011 @ 11:39am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Chris, I read your reasons perfectly. They’re all valid. But none of them change two key factors:
1. He’s 37, and
2. He’s no longer in the team.
In isolation, neither of these factors should count against someone, but when coupled together, they represent the end of a player’s Test career. It doesn’t matter why he’s no longer in the team, or what conspiracies may or may not be in play. He won’t be recalled at 37.
It’s time to let go of the bone.
December 6th 2011 @ 12:39pm
Chris said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
Actually he’s 36, but I agree with you it’s highly unlikely he will be recalled. But you never know…
December 6th 2011 @ 12:41pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
I’d rather him there to mentor Warner than Hughes anyway
December 6th 2011 @ 12:45pm
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
my apologies if he’s only 36 still, I thought he’d had a birthday since being dropped. And no, you can never say never, but I’d reckon this is as close as you can get to being certain..
December 6th 2011 @ 1:33pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
He had his 36th birthday since being dropped, not his 37th
December 6th 2011 @ 5:41pm
sheek said | December 6th 2011 @ 5:41pm | Report comment
Chris,
You have to make your selections in the real world. Katich will never play for Australia again while Michael Clarke is national captain & James Sutherland is CA chief executive.
And at 36, too much would have to change too soon for him to be recalled. I’m a huge admirer of Katich’s “tell it like it is” attitude, but his test days are gone, & not coming back.
As Brett says, “it’s time to let the idea go”.
December 7th 2011 @ 11:25am
Bayman said | December 7th 2011 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Chris,
As Brett and Sheek have suggested, it’s time to let the Katich idea go. Your reasoning may seem sound but it flies in the face of reality. Katich is done and dusted – and he knows it!
December 6th 2011 @ 9:40am
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Brett
I said something similar to Lordy, but I have issues with comments like your “The question, though, isn’t about his abundant talent, or his ability. Both are evident every time he walks out to bat”.
I don’t agree. If talent is being able to slash some balls wide of off stup to the boundary in cavlier then yes, he has heaps of that. But controlling your defence, knowing when to leave, picking your ball, keeping your head still – all those elements of batting are more important than a few flashy shots.
So I question the assumption that Hughes has this vast natural batting talent.
December 6th 2011 @ 9:50am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 9:50am | Report comment
G’day James, I saw you make a similar comment yesterday to Geoff, too. I take your point, but I’m coming at this from the perspective that Hughes is a natural strokemaker, with a good eye, and a desire to play at every ball. That is a telent, but yes, in many respects it’s also a glaring weakness. Talent and technique don’t necessarily go hand in hand. For someone like Ponting, they’re both there in abundance, but someone like Jesse Ryder is another who I think who has technical deficiancies but is still obviously talented. Does that make sense?
Don’t get me wrong, I find Hughes to be one of the more frustrating batsmen to watch in my lifetime, and I can’t see how he can possibly make a fist of Test cricket with that technique. But I still think he has enough natural talent to be in and around the Test team for years to come..
December 6th 2011 @ 10:03am
Terry Kidd said | December 6th 2011 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Jameswm I remember seeing a young S Waugh in the mid-80s who continually frustrated a lot of good judges because he loved a flashy square drive/cut shot and was so often caught square or behind the wicket, but no one doubted his ability or his potential.
I think P Hughes is a little similar, none doubts his ability or potential, but does he have the S waugh determination to rid himself of the ‘get out’ shot and play the percentages? Personally I think he needs to go back to the Shield and learn this.
I also agree with Brett on P Siddle he works hard but delivers little and is treading a fine line. Harris for mine is out until he proves he can play multiple tests without breaking down, likewise Marsh. The team for Hobart is chosen, so be it … but I would break a little more ground and give M Clarke even more of a clean slate for the tests against India … my team would be in batting order
Watson
Warner
Khwaja
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Paine/Wade
Pattison
Cummins
Copeland
Lyon
Starc (12th)
December 6th 2011 @ 10:28am
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 10:28am | Report comment
I think you guys are confusing “natural talent” with “good eye”. Steve Waugh never had a technique as loose as Hughes’s. Hughes is getting out more on loose blocks than slashes anyway.
Siddle bowled very well in their first innings and held our young attack together a bit. I’m not ready to give up on him yet. And from memory he was bowling straight and 145-150 later in the 2nd innings. Bowlers lie that have a lot use in a bowling lineup.
I’d rate our quicks in about this order right now
1. Harris
2. Cummins
3. Pattinson
4. Siddle
5. Copeland
6. Starc
7. Cutting
8. Hazlewood
9. Hilfy
10. Johnson
Starc needs to get more straight and has the makings of being the best of the lot. A bit like Hughes in batting though – a few cracking balls can’t mask too many loose ones. In test cricket, whether you’re batting or bowling, consistency and reliability are the keys.
By the way Terry – on your team, I’d seriously consider swapping Watson and Hussey. And I’d have Siddle ahead of Copeland I think, but not by a lot.
December 6th 2011 @ 10:38am
Terry Kidd said | December 6th 2011 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Iwent for Watson & Warner at the top of the order for the left/right combination …. swapping Hussey for Watson puts left/left/left at the top and right/right/right in the middle order …. not ideal I would think
December 6th 2011 @ 11:45am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:45am | Report comment
no confusion on may part James, the two aren’t the same to me..
December 6th 2011 @ 9:40am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Chris Barrett in the SMH has had a similar look at Hughes’ numbers: “The raw data makes ugly reading: in 19 of his 29 dismissals in Tests, including each of the past six, he has been caught between wicketkeeper and gully.”
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/curious-case-of-phil-hughes-one-for-master-coach-to-reverse-trend-20111205-1ofi6.html
December 6th 2011 @ 10:26am
MrKistic said | December 6th 2011 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Love the photo in that article, looks like a bloke working catching practice.
December 6th 2011 @ 11:46am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:46am | Report comment
I actually tried to paste the photo in that comment above, Mr K, it’s a cracker!!
December 6th 2011 @ 10:34am
Johnno said | December 6th 2011 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Surley when fit the national selectors will have to find a spot in the top 6 for Shane Watson.
Even if that meant fropping hussy,Ponting Khawaja,PhilHughes, or Dave Warner.
December 6th 2011 @ 10:38am
SouthernWaratah said | December 6th 2011 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Brett,
Phillip Hughes wise…
I’m concerned that if he gets sent back to Shield cricket he’ll just become another Brad Hodge… Remember the chorus of support from the south? Brad’s problem was that he smashed every attack in Shield cricket for years and then when he came up against a test bowler in Shield (McGrath, Kasper, Dizzy) he’d get what was described as “A good ball’’, next game against a shield side without a test bowler he’d get another hundred and “Hodgie was back”
When Brad finally got into the test arena his technique was exposed and he had no time to correct it given he was in his late 20’s.
For Hughes, he’s 22 & has been smashing 1st class hundreds already so he’ll simply go back and continue that, the best thing for him is to continue in the national team, working with Langer & co to sort out his off stump issue…
We don’t need another Hodgie…
SW
December 6th 2011 @ 11:28am
Ryan O'Connell said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:28am | Report comment
When was Hodge’s technique exposed in the Test arena? And what exactly was his technical flaw?
He scored a half century on debut, and a half century in his last Test. And in between those 6 Tests, he notched a double hundred, and finished with an average of 55.
Not really sure he was ‘exposed’ as much as simply screwed by the selectors.
December 6th 2011 @ 11:50am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:50am | Report comment
SouthTah, I remember the talk about Hodge’s flaws, but for the life of me, I can’t recall what they were, but that’s becuase I was never big on him anyway.
But I do take your point, and you’re right – and actually there was an article quoting Hughes’ (and M.Clarke’s, actually) NSW Schoolboys coach who made exactly the same point as you..
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/curious-case-of-phil-hughes-one-for-master-coach-to-reverse-trend-20111205-1ofi6.html
December 6th 2011 @ 12:03pm
SouthernWaratah said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
I’m with you Brett, I remember reading all about his flaws, but can’t pin point them, I do remember a flashy stroke outside off stump that he got dropped off on about 30 before he got 200, then seeing a adventurous drive that a Test quick bowled to him in a shield game that took his off stump when he was attempting to be an opener.
A Sydney journalist told me Hodge missed the T20 world cup because he simply wasn’t liked amongst the team and set up… Not the 1st player in sport to suffer from that…
Any who, Lets hope Hughes can sort it out…
December 6th 2011 @ 1:30pm
Matt F said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
SW, that was indeed hodges “technical flaw.” He never really left the ball when it was outside off stump. Though it’s a pretty minor flaw really, certainly not as big as Hughes’ flaw anyway. I’ve heard a few times that the real reason why Hodge was dropped, or at least never recalled, was because a fair chunk of the then test side couldn’t stand him
December 6th 2011 @ 10:44am
sheek said | December 6th 2011 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Over at Geoff’s column I mentioned that the people’s favourite – Douggie Walters – was also a boom or bust type of player (similar to Hughes). He also had similar flaws in his technique to Hughes.
But we loved Douggie for his flaws, because it made him more like us. But also, when he fired, he thrilled us with his exhilarating stroke play.
We seem to live in a less tolerant society. Political correctness pervades. Because sportsmen today are fully professional 24/7, there is an underlying perception that they must be perfect in every way. Weaknesses aren’t tolerated. We crave for individuals, for characters, but are ruthless in our assessment of technical flaws.
Wallaby Quade Cooper is a classic example. Although some of his technical flaws are inexcusable at the highest level.
I would hate to be a professional sportsman today. Oh sure, the money’s terrific. But it’s like a ‘golden handcuff’ – “here young fella, we’re going to make you filthy rich, but we’re also going to take your life from you, to control you”. Some of you in business might even relate to the concept of the ‘golden handcuff’.
Poor Phil Hughes & his flawed batting technique. If having your life controlled isn’t enough, you’ve got a thousand voices speaking to you, telling you what to do, how to do it, when to do it, etc.
All these voices – head coach, battting coach, bowling coach, fielding coach, psychologist, psychiatrist, batting analyst, captain, team manager, personal manager, CA publicist, dietician, trainer, the list goes on, all these people trying to justify their position & pay packets by making THEIR voices, THEIR words, through all the sea of voices & words, relevant!
Hughes won’t solve his problems by spending hours in front of a bowling machine under the watchful eyes of some or all of the above. He’ll solve in the time honoured, old-fashioned way, which has stood the test of time.
In the old days, the young cricketers sat in the dressing room with their team-mates & opponents after a game. The young guys listened to, & learnt, often from general conversation, from the older guys. There was no science here, but lots of everyday, practical commonsense.
So for Hughes that is, sit around a quiet place with trusted friends discussing all & nothing, knocking back a dozen coldies or so. Some of them might be cricketers themselves, or guys who simply found ways of problem-solving from their own experiences.
Or if not mates of a similar age, it might be the old man, uncles & their mates who can pass on the value of their experience. No pressure. No “you must do this, or that”. Just a lot of ideas. A lot of laughs. A lot of coldies. A lot of bonding.
From all this, Phil Hughes will find the answers he seeks. Not from the battalion of professional advisers…..
December 6th 2011 @ 11:23am
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Sheek – I think Hughes does need hours in front of a bowling machine. But he needs to be practising doing things right. He’s constantly reinforcing his errors. There are physical things he’s doing badly wrong, and they won’t be solved by drinking with ex-players.
December 6th 2011 @ 11:53am
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Great post Sheek, can’t disagree with any of it..
James, Sheek’s example of Quade Cooper is another classic case where talent and technique are easily distinguished. Both Hughes and Cooper are wonderfully talented attacking players, but their defensive frailties threaten to curtail their careers if left unaddressed..
December 6th 2011 @ 12:47pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
You can’t compare defence in cricket with defence in rugby though. As for Cooper – his technique is fine – his pass, step, timing etc, all beautiful. His issue is all in the head.
I’m not convinced that Hughes has the natural talent people like you assume he has Brett. Yes he can play wonderfully aggressive shots and sometimes they hit the middle. But Warner for example has more natural talent.
I watched a lot of the state T20 games last summer. Hughes was so woeful he was dropped from his state team. He couldn’t get bat on the full ones on his legs and was jumpy at anything on his hip. They should be bread and butter. He just couldn’t get it off the square. And he wasn’t scoring freely outside off either, not that the bowlers gave him too many there.
Just because he can not move his feet and slash balls over gully doesn’t mean he has a huge natural talent. He might – but I’m far from convinced yet.
December 6th 2011 @ 1:04pm
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Well that’s fair enough, if everyone had the same opinion, it’d be a pretty boring world and a very quiet website. I would agree with your suggestion that Warner has more natural talent, by the way, and I’m sure that’s not an assumption when you say that. If you don’t see Hughes’ talent the same way I or others do, that’s fine, that’s why we have a foum like this, to discuss it.
And I’m not comparing defences between cricket and rugby per se, I’m speaking about defence as a concept. They are both wonderful attacking players. They do both have defensive frailties..
December 6th 2011 @ 4:21pm
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | December 6th 2011 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Sheek, I can see where you are coming from with the “Douggie” angle, I for one would have no problem with Hughes being a boom or bust player if he wasn’t an opener; but as he appears to be more bust than boom it puts too much additional pressure on the 3 and 4, and that I think is the heart of the dilemma. If he was batting at 5 or 6 then it would be a different matter all together.
December 6th 2011 @ 11:06am
Ryan O'Connell said | December 6th 2011 @ 11:06am | Report comment
The real issue with Hughes goes beyond sheer runs, averages, etc. Whilst runs are the primary measuring stick of every batsmen in the side, the openers have the additional responsibility of taking the shine off the new ball and seeing off the oppositions best (opening) bowlers. So by consistently getting out early, Hughes is putting pressure on the whole line-up – especially Khawaja – and not fulfilling his job description.
There are three solutions to this problem:
1. Hughes tightens up and stops getting out early
2. Hughes is dropped for someone else who can do the job
3. Bat him at 6, as a counter attacking batsmen, where his ‘boom or bust’ returns are more tolerable
As for Ponting, I believe he’s got enough credits in the bank to earn him a stay of execution, especially now that’s put some scores together. The days of Punter scoring double hundreds are probably over, but as long as he still contributes like he has over the last two Tests, he deserves his spot not just on reputation and past glories, but on merit. I’m not sure we have the talent waiting in the mix, knocking down the door, demanding that we drop one of the greatest batsmen ever.
December 6th 2011 @ 12:06pm
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Ryano, I can take your first two solutions for Hughes, but no.3 is a non-starter for me. From personal experience, dropping someone from their usual place in the order several spots lower only further erodes their confidence, and also completely ruins the team dynamic. I was a middle order batsman my whole life, and once had a grade captain decide that all my problems at that tie would be solved by dropping me from no.4 to no.7/8.
The penny only dropped for him that he might have erred when after the second game where I was not out at the end of the innings, and he chipped me for not making more runs, three of the four words I said to him were “are you serious?”, before I politely explained to him that the laws of cricket don’t allow for the non-striker to score runs from a delivery..
Anyway, Hughes is an opener, pure and simple. He needs to sort himself out as an opener..
December 6th 2011 @ 12:13pm
Terry Kidd said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Hahahahaha … hey Brett can we run a mini competition to guess what the fourth word was?
I was only a Saturday park cricketer and my batting talent went the other way … my mates said that I had no talent no technique but a reasonable eye and a ton of aggression … so I was promoted from 10 to open solely on the basis that I might make a run or two but would be sure to take some shine off the ball … hahaha, I was rarely bowled or lbw but caught very very often … I didn’t know how to defend or let a ball go … ala Mr Hughes
December 6th 2011 @ 12:41pm
Ryan O'Connell said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Brett, there is a big difference from dropping you from 4 to 8, as opposed from opener to 6. Your captain was basically saying you weren’t good enough to be in the team as a batsmen, because you weren’t batting in the top 6. A drop down the order from opener to 6 wouldn’t be as confidence sapping to Hughes, because it could be clearly communicated that he was still a primary batsmen in the team – they’re just giving him a different role, and one that better suits his skill set.
In any case, which of these scenarios is the worst for Hughes’ confidence: Continuing to get low scores opening? Getting dropped altogether? Or staying in the side with a different role/position?
Let’s not forget that Hussey was an opener, and in order to stay in the Aust team when everyone was fit, he had to move down the order. It didn’t seem to affect his confidence. (And if Hughes is going to be so mentally affected by a simple batting re-structure, I doubt he has the mental toughness to be a Test opener anyway.)
As for ruining team dynamics, I would argue the pressure Hughes puts on the rest of the line-up, particularly the inexperienced Khawaja at 3, is far damaging to the team, no?
Lastly, “Hughes is an opener, pure and simple”. Well, he is an opener, yes. But he’s not a Test one at present. Would he rather be a State opener, or a Test number 6?
December 6th 2011 @ 12:49pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
Why do we have to mess with the team to keep him there?
How can worrying about hurting his confidence be a reason to keep him in the team?
December 6th 2011 @ 12:57pm
Ryan O'Connell said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Mate, I totally agree. The team is bigger than one individual. You shouldn’t have to worry about messing with the team, and you shouldn’t have to worry about a player’s confidence (otherwise no one would ever get dropped). The team comes first.
I’d drop him. But if they are determined to keep him in the team, then dropping him to number 6 should be considered an option.
December 6th 2011 @ 12:53pm
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
Ryano, the worry for me was that I’d even stopped bowling in the nets by that stage!
What I’d add to your ‘drop him to 6′ equation is that there’s more and far better options around the state ranks at no.6 than as an opener. If Hughes can’t hold his place as an opener, then how can he as a 6, and what does that say to all the middle order bats and batting allrounders around the country?
I’m sure Hughes would bat at 11 if it meant holding his place in the side, but he’s being picked to open the batting. Nothing more, nothing less. Marsh, Watson, Cooper, Bailey, even the likes of Christian, Mitch Marsh, heck even Steve Smith or Andrew McDonald would be better options at 6 than Hughes..
December 6th 2011 @ 1:03pm
Ryan O'Connell said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Totally agree, Brett. I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. Like I said to jamesmw, I’d simply drop him.
But if they steadfastly refuse to, then I think they need to seriously consider number 6 as an option.
December 6th 2011 @ 1:10pm
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
I would imagine – nay, hope – it won’t come to that. If he can’t open for Australia, then he should only open for NSW..
December 6th 2011 @ 4:24pm
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | December 6th 2011 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
I had the reverse problem when playing in the Lancashire leagues…..I used to bat at 6/7 and being expected to score quick runs, which was not my style. As soon as the skipper moved me to 3/4 it was a different ball game all together.
December 6th 2011 @ 12:29pm
sledgeross said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Who cares what Hughes technique looks like?
He hits hundreds. I couldnt care how crap he looks while he does it. When he stops hitting a runs the we can drop him.
BTW, I would prefer Warner opening with Watson!
December 6th 2011 @ 12:44pm
Ryan O'Connell said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
I don’t care what his technique looks like. I care that his technique gets him out.
December 6th 2011 @ 12:45pm
SouthernWaratah said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Well said Ryno
December 6th 2011 @ 12:50pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Agree with ROC. If he scored consistently with his technique, I wouldn’t care.
December 6th 2011 @ 5:44pm
sheek said | December 6th 2011 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
Yes, very well said. You throw some real beauties out there Ryan…..
December 6th 2011 @ 1:10pm
sledgeross said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Couldnt you argue that everyone has deficiences in their technique that gets them out ie Ponting falling across his stumps? Aussie batsmen generally never have good “techniques” but rely on eye and courage to score runs.
Compare the scores of Hughes to Hayden and Langer from their first ten innings and you see some similarities.
Hughes: 0, 75, 115, 160, 33, 32, 36, 4, 7, 0
Hayden: 15, 5, 125, 0, 40, 0, 10, 2, 44, 69
Langer: 20, 54, 10, 1, 63, 24, 0, 0, 69, 12.
Yes, Hughes is susceptible to some types of delivery, but he has also shown that he can score runs. As long as he scores runs, he should be in the team, beacuse there are no other openers who can match his averages.
December 6th 2011 @ 1:15pm
Ryan O'Connell said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
That’s fair enough sledgeross.
I guess the point to be made is that Hayden and Langer both got dropped, went away and worked on their games, and came back better players. Perhaps that’s what Hughes needs.
December 6th 2011 @ 1:35pm
Matt F said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Good call Ryan. The same reason to drop Hughes now is the same reason we shouldn’t write him off for the future. He’s 23 and needs to sort out his technique. It’s very rare that a batsman establishes himself as a genuine test regular at such a young age, particularly at the top of the order. Langer and Hayden are the two obvious examples of players who had talent but still needed to refine their games for a while before being regular test players. Hughes has a fantastic record for a player of his age but has plenty of improvement ahead of him and one very obvious weakness.
Even if he were to take 5 years to sort his game out at Shield level he could still have up 10 years left at the top level.
December 6th 2011 @ 1:20pm
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Sledgie, you could even be taking us into the murky grey area between poor technique and poor execution here. Ponting, for eg, has a pretty solid technique, but he has an issue to that ball on his toes by trying to play the wrong shot. Rather than play that delivery across the line through mid-wicket, why wouldn’t he look to step down the line and on-drive it? Move the front foot to midday and play straight, rather than 1 or 2 o’clock and whip around the pad?? (I say this because I fought the same battle my whole batting life..)
Hughes’ issue might even be one of poor shot selection or execution too, but his technique is such that he gets himself in a position to late cut deliveries that “most” batsmen would just step in behind and defend back down the wicket, or in the vee at least…
December 6th 2011 @ 1:37pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
It might be execution too, but it’s definitely technique.
December 6th 2011 @ 1:52pm
Brett McKay said | December 6th 2011 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
I’d agree with that James, certainly his technique that gets him to where he plays the shot. A mate of mine used to every now and then fall into a habit where is initial foot movement was his back foot toward fine leg, and it would take me to tell him he was batting like Phillip Hughes to rectify the problem, which most of the time, he wasn’t even aware he was doing..
December 6th 2011 @ 2:48pm
jameswm said | December 6th 2011 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
Brett you can see Hughes is aware of the problems with his back foot. He tries to get it across, but it gets across after he’s hit the ball. This means he’s in the air and head moving while hitting it. Solid and composed and in the right position straight afterwards though, which can give a false impression of the shot. You need to pause it at the point of impact and you’ll see how messed up he is. Bottom half of body closed, top half open, in the air and head moving and often to the off.
And regardless of what his skipper says, it was the same 2 years ago.
December 6th 2011 @ 8:13pm
Lolly said | December 6th 2011 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
A lot of his fans seem to think that he’s getting one jaffa after another and that he is just incredibly unlucky. Certainly the balls look like jaffas, but I’m not sure they would look so great if another batsmen with a more orthodox style was facing them and quite possibly leaving them or playing with a straight bat.
December 7th 2011 @ 10:28am
jameswm said | December 7th 2011 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Lolly Hughes makes a lot of balls look better than they are