Is 2012 a year of transition for Super Rugby?
Roar Guru By nickoldschool, 24 Jan 2012 nickoldschool is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Super Rugby 2012
The four-year cycle which started in 2007 has ended with the 2011 Rugby World Cup and a new one is about to start with the biggest rugby ‘championship’ on the planet to kick off in a month time. Yes, that’s Super Rugby.
Yet many argue that the exodus of players to the Northern Hemisphere may affect the competition itself, its level and public’s interest. So what can we expect? Will the desertion of senior players have a negative impact on the comp’?
Well, first of all, it’s fair to say that the exodus of ‘top players’ hasn’t been consistent in the three countries.
If Australia and New Zealand have mainly lost players who were either on the way down, no offense, or not anymore indispensable in their own squad, South Africa on the other hand have lost a huge contingent of senior players who were the heart and soul (and fists) of their team.
How can you replace Botha (Gary and Bakkies), Matfield, Steenkamp, Rossouw, Du Preez, Fourie, Van der Linde or Smit? You just can’t.
With most of them being ex-Bulls, it’s fair to say that the Pretoria-based franchise will have to reinvent its brand of rugby in 2012 as the ‘tight five’ might not look as ‘tight’ at times as it used to.
The years of the bullying, rampaging Bulls up front might be a thing of the past and with it their domination on South African rugby, which means that Sharks, Stormers and even Cheetahs and Lions now have an opportunity of climbing up the pecking order and reshuffling South-African rugby.
How they want to achieve this will make this super rugby season the most open and interesting in years.
How about the Kiwis? Donald, Sivivatu, Rokocoko, Tialata or even Muliaina weren’t the players they used to be in the last couple of years and it’s not being disrespectful to say that they will be replaced by young, raw talents who have been waiting for the opportunity.
McAlister still has many good years ahead of him and what he has shown with Toulouse in the last few months proves that he is still world class, here or there. Brad Thorn is a unique case: he is getting better with age and just chose to call it a day after the 2011 Rugby World Cup. Fair enough.
The depth of New Zealand rugby being what it is, there is no question they will be competitive this year again. The most intriguing will be to see how teams like the Hurricanes or the Blues gel and how long it takes to do so.
Plus the first steps of Ma’a Nonu and Piri Weepu at Westac Stadium with the Blues’ jersey on. Can’t wait for this one!
Finally, Australia. Fact: the 2011 Super Rugby trophy is ours. Fact: although many ‘top’ players have moved around, they are still on our shores and that’s the main thing.
Veterans like Dunning, Baxter or Waugh will be missed but again they would probably not have been in any starting XV this year. Giteau and Hoiles? Fit, both mentally and physically, they would be indispensable in any squad.
But years in Australian rugby have taken their toll: Hoiles might never fully recover from his injury while Giteau needed some fresh air after the 2011 Rugby World Cup fiasco.
Many predict a more even competition within Australia with the Melbourne Rebels attracting a lot of attention: can Kurtley Beale and James O’Connor make the Victorian franchise a genuine contender?
So yes, 2012 might be a year of transition for Super Rugby. But there are many other sports who would love to have one like this in the pipeline. Bring it on.
List (non exhaustive) of ‘senior’ players out of Super Rugby in 2012:
Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Fourie du Preez, John Smit, Luke McAlister, John Afoa, Jo Rokocoko, Aled de Malmanche, Stephen Donald, Mils Muliaina, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Neemia Tialata, Chris Jack, Brad Thorn, Phil Waugh, Al Baxter, Sosene Anesi, Luke Burgess, Greg Sommerville, Leroy Houston, Mark Chisholm, Huia Edmonds, Matt Giteau, Stephen Hoiles, Josh Valentine, Matt Dunning, Scott Staniforth, Danie Rossouw, Gary Botha, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Skipper Badenhorst, Jaque Fourie, Francois Louw, Enrico Januarie, Conrad Jantjes, CJ Van der Linde.
Recommend this story.
The Turkey 10
The Turkey 10 teams have now been selected, as Wild Turkey Bourbon's sport sponsorship kicks into the next exciting phase.
Choose which side you're going to support and get in the running to win $2,500!
Simply visit Wild Turkey Australia on Facebook for your chance to win.
Find out more.
- Explore:
- Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Super Rugby 2012
January 24th 2012 @ 6:51am
Hoy said | January 24th 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
I love McAlister as a player, but for whatever reason, he just seems to flourish in Europe, and doesn’t do quite so well here. The highlights of when he was at Sale were great, and now he looks like he has got that form back in France. Perhaps it was because he was shuffled through different positions here and never got comfortable?
January 24th 2012 @ 6:49pm
Grimmace said | January 24th 2012 @ 6:49pm | Report comment
Is he bit of a head case? I remember a bit of ordinary behaviour last year with his NPC side prior to heading to France? I could be wrong.
January 25th 2012 @ 2:08pm
Mario said | January 25th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
No your right, McAlister started to skip training sessions for his team North Harbour after he heard he was not to be in the All Blacks, and then he asked for a early release (IMO believing he was to good for NPC). Really not needed as fellow players like Joe Rockocko decided to play the NPC season after missing out.
Although if McAlister had stayed I’m sure he probably would have been in the world cup after the spout of injuries in the first five position.
January 24th 2012 @ 7:04am
SA said | January 24th 2012 @ 7:04am | Report comment
The bulls have turned out freakish young talent for this years super rugby, it will be a whole new exciting team! Young Players to watch out for will deff be, johann sadie, jj engelbrecht, Daniel Adongo, cj stander, jacques potgieter and Francois Venter
January 24th 2012 @ 7:06am
allblackfan said | January 24th 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
I think the real question is what impact will the Rugby Championship have on the Super 15?
It’s quite obvious that Super rugby teams will have to field weakened lineups in the last weekend of games before the inbound tours by NH teams (Wales and Scotland in Australia’s case). On Friday, June 1, Rebels play the Brumbies and Saturday, June 2, NSW take on the Hurricanes. On Tuesday, June 5, Aust plays Scotland and Saturday, June 9, the Wallabies take on Wales. Very fast turnaround times.
Then there’s the physical challenge that will be posed by the Pumas.
To mind, two bad decisions have been made with Super rugby in the last two years and it’s to do with timing.
1. They expanded the competition in a rugby world cup year, and
2. They extended the competition in a year when the 3Nations has become 4N and the travel demands have increased.
Depth is about to become of paramount importance
January 24th 2012 @ 7:09am
Nick said | January 24th 2012 @ 7:09am | Report comment
That Adongo kid is massive!!!
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/bWjTfzwqG2R/Vodacom+Bulls+Training+Session/JwU1YsnP9qX/Daniel+Adongo
January 24th 2012 @ 9:57am
kovana said | January 24th 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Daniel Adongo can play at Lock and Wing IMO!
He is from Kenya.
January 24th 2012 @ 9:18am
Brendon said | January 24th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Dont agree giteau is needed in any squad tho.. Hoiles as well. He just never seemed to step up against the bigger sides. Lets hope this is finally the tahs yr!! no injuries pls!!
January 24th 2012 @ 9:56am
kovana said | January 24th 2012 @ 9:56am | Report comment
If there is so much rugby depth in NZ. Why dont they use their NPC teams instead?
January 24th 2012 @ 10:37am
Rugbug said | January 24th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Why doesn’t Australia use its county or provinical teams?
That’s right they don’t have any!
What a ridiculous comment Kovana.
Do you purposely hunt through threads to have a go at anything and everything to do with NZ rugby?
I’ve only been here for a few days and I am bored with your style and provocative anti NZ sentiment already!
January 24th 2012 @ 12:04pm
kovana said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Um NSW Waratahs, Qld Reds anyone?
Unlike the made up NZ Franchise systems… Which are killing NZ rugby i might add, Australia actually uses teams that represent a real state with real borders.
NZ should start using their NPC teams, they have the player depth for it… And kiwis love talking themselves up.. Well.. they should go for it.
In Saffaland.. They have reduced their premier division to 6 teams… No surprise that in the near future they will most likely have a 6 team SR conference… Made up of teams that represent their Currie Cup teams.
January 24th 2012 @ 12:17pm
kingplaymaker said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Kovana one point in all three countries is that with only 5 teams, in only 5 locations, not all the talent is developed possible. Sometimes it’s asked whether there is enough talent to fill more teams, but there already is, it’s just that they can’t get a place in squads already full of established players or they live somewhere where there is no team. What’s more in the case of NZ and Aus as a result they often go off to league. I certainly think each country could support 8 teams, with some re-distribution of current players, maybe some European imports and league converts. The results would positively transform rugby in all three places.
January 24th 2012 @ 12:32pm
formeropenside said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
There is no NSW in the Waratahs. In addition, the 5 provincial sides were pretty well based on some provincial teams – Auckland Blues, Canterbury Crusaders, Waikato Chiefs, Wellington Hurricanes, Otago Highlanders.
January 24th 2012 @ 2:31pm
kovana said | January 24th 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Waratahs represent NSW do they not?
Not like the North Harbour northland Auckland Blues
January 24th 2012 @ 2:28pm
kovana said | January 24th 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
Exactly KPM..
Which is why the Provincial teams of Saffa and NZ should take precedence.
Saffas would have 14 teams – fully pro.. 6 in the Premier Division and 8 in the First Division.
NZ 14 teams as well – fully pro.. 6 in the Premiership and 8 in the Championship… All with promotion and Relegation.
By 2015 This will hopefully be what arises and Oz with 6 teams in their conference… So all in all you will have 34 pro teams in the SH alone.
January 24th 2012 @ 6:06pm
Darwin Stubbie said | January 24th 2012 @ 6:06pm | Report comment
Yeah abandon a system that has just helped win a world cup and kept NZ in the #1 spot in world rugby for the majority of the time ranking have been going – not to mention multiple TN titles, bled cups, grand slams … Yeah great idea … The NPC provides rugby to the heartland and is an excellent development pathway and along with the CC provides NZ (& ob SA) with a competitive adv over every other international rugby playing nation … give it up – never going to happen
January 24th 2012 @ 6:39pm
sheek said | January 24th 2012 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
Kovana,
Whichever millennium the ARU get around to having OUR OWN national comp, it will be city/region based.
Not necessarily my preferred option, but that is the way Aussie sport is heading. States are an ancient anachronism. If Sydney has two-thirds the overall playing strength of the country, then it makes sense to give them say, 3 city/region teams in a 10 team comp.
Rather than the current practice of one team per state/territory/province. The Rebels have already flagged the future (as they see it) by referring to themselves as Melbourne rather than Victoria.
Each country is entitled to follow the domestic path they believe works best form them. So if SA & NZ prefer provinces, that is good for them. Just as long as we can tell where they come from would be helpful…..!!!
January 24th 2012 @ 7:21pm
Jiggles said | January 24th 2012 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
DS,
If South Africa ever make good their threat of leaving SANZAR (highly unlikely) I don’t see why a 26 round competition of NPC and Australian Provincial sides couldn’t be created, similar to the netball competition currently in place. Obviously the Ranfurly Shield would have to stay as a NZ only trophy, played within the competition.
Provincial rugby is very important to New Zealand for the reasons you’ve mentioned above, and I am a huge fan of it along with Currie Cup. I can see how the majority of Kiwi’s, particularly those from the smaller provinces, prefer it to the soulless super teams which seem to be dominated by the bigger unions. But I am sure you are rational enough to agree the NPC couldn’t support NZ rugby as the only professional competition if the NZRU also chose to continue to ban foreign-based players form All Black selection. I really think that Australia’s larger financial clout is a necessary evil that NZ rugby needs to leverage to some extent.
January 24th 2012 @ 7:52pm
Darwin Stubbie said | January 24th 2012 @ 7:52pm | Report comment
Jiggles – I agree completely SR is required as a funding vehicle – and is now the pinnacle rugby level for NZ players – definitely if SA go then there’ll need to be a different vehicle (but like you I can’t see it happening) …
the NPC has become a development pathway to provide the depth relied upon by the ABs when required (the world cup proved how essential it is) .. The NZRFU seems to have lucked onto a formula last year which provides quality rugby over a short time span giving the public exactly what they want – connection to their provinces – trying to use 6 of these as SR sides would only lead to the death every other province and it reduces the development of players which keeps NZ ahead of the curve – that’s why it will never happen …. What I’ve never really understood is why the ARU don’t try and take advantage of placing emerging players into it on structured basis
January 25th 2012 @ 10:32am
kovana said | January 25th 2012 @ 10:32am | Report comment
@DS.. That same system of franchise teams which is killing off NZ interest in Rugby?
Get off it. Its rubbish.. If NZ is so proud of their so called player depth.. Then use NPC teams..Or are they too scared.
Willing to bankrupt themselves to keep Rugby to themselves. NZRU is the real reason why rugby is still held back. The RWC should never have been hosted by NZ. Doing so has held back rugbys growth by at least 8 bloody years.
Too bloody selfish.
January 26th 2012 @ 11:33am
Jiggles said | January 26th 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
DS – I agree last years format with midweek and day time games was excellent, Rugby on fox pretty much every night of the week and it was good quality too. While Super Rugby will most likely expand in the future, I really can’t see NZ doing away with the NPC as a development vehicle, as you say it is too valuable.
There have been a few Australian players sent over to the NPC (James Hanson for example) and they are better off for it. NPC offers so much more than the club rugby scene in Sydney and Brisbane. The clubs in both city are the biggest obstacle to a similar competition in Australia, with the Sydney rugby fraternity the worst offenders.
January 25th 2012 @ 9:48am
Rugbug said | January 25th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
How about Australia get their own house in order before trying to tell other countries how to clean theirs.
The NPC / ITM cup is that all important level below Super Rugby that Australia doesn’t have.
Who gives a toss what SA does with their local competitions.
Or is the real reason you would like NZ to use their provincial teams so that Australia has even more of a chance of winning the competition. With its State teams drawn from millions up against a team drawn from 100′s of thousands in some NZ provinces less than 100 thousand!
January 25th 2012 @ 9:49am
Snobby Deans said | January 25th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Kovana – there are more NPC teams than Super Rugby teams in NZ, so it just wouldn’t be practical or sensible to simply go down that route.
I struggle to understand your comment about Australia using teams that represent a real state. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Seems like an irrelevant comment in what’s pretty much an irrelevant post, as far as I can tell. Might be time to look at getting that chip off your shoulders.
You talk about Kiwi’s talking themselves up – I guess their years of success and Super Rugby/ Tri nations dominance has afforded them a bit of space to do that. This would be much in the same way that Kiwi fans of other sports where Australia generally dominate – such as cricket – have to put up with mouthy Aussie fans. Perhaps the pain of the boot being on the other foot is a bit too much for your precious sensibilities. Maybe you should stick to tiddlywinks – and I’ll apologies now if I’ve offended you again. . . .
January 25th 2012 @ 10:36am
kovana said | January 25th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Again. Rugby is the national game of NZ. They talk themselves up about player depth etc….. Then use the NPC teams. Why are they so scared about players leaving their shores? Whats the problem? Surely the spiritual guardians have enough talent in their home nation?
Again arrogance by Kiwi fans. Disgusting.
January 25th 2012 @ 11:28am
Snobby Deans said | January 25th 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
What does it matter whether it’s NZs national game or not? That irrelevant (kind of like your response, really)
Where do you think the players for NZ’s Super Rugby teams come from? They come from NPC teams. Using the actual NPC teams would leave other quality players who are not in those teams out in the cold. How does that make sense?
England have the largest player numbers in the world, but still fret about quality players heading overseas (such as Andy Sheridan who’s just signed for 3 years in France). No country wants to lose quality players who are the next generation of players (ignoring the likes of Brad Thorn and Mils Muliaina who are in the twilight of their careers)
Not sure that being the most successful rugby nation in history makes NZ the spiritual guardians, but happy to play the silly little word games.
Still can’t see how this is arrogance.
January 25th 2012 @ 4:46pm
Darwin Stubbie said | January 25th 2012 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
It’s pretty obvious that spouting meaningless crowd numbers is about as close as you get to reality … The NZRFU can use any system they like to represent NZ rugby at SR level – it’s certainly not up to anyone else … The provinces have their own separate competition and I believe kiwis prefer it that way
January 24th 2012 @ 12:02pm
RebelsRanger said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
because Australia would be completely embarassed when the Brumbies/ Force and Rebels all lose to teams like Hawkes Bay, Taranaki, Southland and Manawatu hahaha
January 24th 2012 @ 12:06pm
kovana said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
You do have a point Rebels.. But a top 6 NPC division (they have a top 7 at the moment in NZ) with the top 6 teams in NZ would go all right IMO and more than hold their own against the Ozzie and Saffa teams. If they had all their all blacks that is.
- Canterbury
- Auckland
- Wellington
- Waikato
- Southland
- Taranaki….LOL.
January 25th 2012 @ 10:00am
Rugbug said | January 25th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Kovana why do you LOL at Taranaki the current Ranfurly shield holders and third place in 2011 NPC?
Without doubt one of if not the smallest union in the Premiership competition with a population of barely 100 thousand people.
I think someone is a little unsure of NZ rugby and what is more hysterical is an outsider trying to tell NZ what they should do with their competition.
For the record the ITM Premiership teams finished in this order after Round Robin Play play.
Canternury beat Waikato in the Final
Waikato
Canterbury
Taranaki – Won more games than Canterbury however bonus points got the later through to the final.
Bay of Plenty
Auckland
Wellington
Southland – Relegated
P.s Southland were relegated to the championship last year and Hawkes Bay promoted so not even sure why you have them in your top 6 here.
January 25th 2012 @ 10:41am
kovana said | January 25th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
So surely Taranaki can take on the Reds?
January 25th 2012 @ 4:12pm
Rugbug said | January 25th 2012 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
Surely they can Kovana they have beaten Canterbury Waikato and Wellington in the last two seasons.
P.s go back and have a look at the table Kovana where are Auckland, Wellington and dare I say it Otago?
The latter is not even in the premiership!
Oh and the most ironic thing is you have Southland ahead of Taranaki and you don’t even mention Bay of Plenty who finished fourth in the premiership ahead of Auckland, Wellington and Southland again the latter who has been relegated to the Championship
You do realise that Taranaki were hoping to bid for the Franchise spot that went to the Rebels don’t you!?
Of course you didn’t because you didn’t do your research and you know very little about New Zealand rugby!
The only reason they didn’t bid was because the NZRU refused to put forward another NZ team to appease the Australians. Not only did they (Taranaki) have a wealthy Taranaki ex pat willing to back the team they also had a lot of local support.
January 25th 2012 @ 4:51pm
kovana said | January 25th 2012 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
For your info Mr pedant, i just jotted those teams down. Not as actual rankings.
Stop going over the top with your pedantic over reactions.
January 25th 2012 @ 8:34pm
onor said | January 25th 2012 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
Dude .. do you know anything… ???
IMO … southland would give any of your states
a run for their money.. as would hawkes bay
the naki and manawatu!!! cos they dont play show
boat SR style games.. its hard nosed.. old school..
face in the mud style up front rugby!! NPC is a different
to SR!!
January 26th 2012 @ 8:01am
Rugbug said | January 26th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Kid got served big time and thats all you can come up with “Mr Pedant”
Time to step away from the keyboard and leave the rugby to the grown folk.
Go and learn a little about rugby kid and then come back when you actually know a thing or two
January 26th 2012 @ 10:25am
kovana said | January 26th 2012 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Again Rugger. If you are so confident about your NPC teams and spout arrogant claims that NZ have a player depth. Use the NPC teams in SR.
Use 2 tiers of NPC rugby.
January 26th 2012 @ 11:21am
Rugbug said | January 26th 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
The only arrogant person here kid is yourself,
Nowhere ever have I claimed the superiority of our NPC teams nor have I spouted on about player depth in NZ.
I challenge you or anyone else on this forum to find one post where I have, I can guarantee you now that I haven’t and once again it is you coming up with ludicrous and crass comments to suit the moving of the goal posts which you frequently do.
What I did was question how much you actually knew about the teams that compete in the domestic competition of New Zealand rugby and also how much you knew about the credentials of each team. of course neither of which you could answer so you resorted to childish comments and name calling, wow how grown up and mature of you.
It is something you are claiming and it is also you shouting out that we should use our NPC teams for Super rugby.
You tell me why Kid that we should use our NPC teams, please I’m really interested as are others to know.
Also who gives you the right of all people to tell Kiwis what we should do with our competition and what we Kiwis actually like. It is quite clear you know very little about the NPC and Currie Cup for that matter and really should refrain from saying anything because you do come across as extremely pig headed and as you say “Arrogant”
What it all boils down to Kid is NZ has a very solid basis for Rugby which gives it depth, much like Australian cricket, there are clear pathways to making it to the big leagues. why should NZ throw away over 100 years of domestic rugby to pander to your ill informed ideals of who should participate in SR.
I’m sure I don’t need to remind you that all the provinces are aligned with a Franchise like it or not in professional sport sometimes uncomfortable alliances need to be made.
Also I see above where someone has questioned what happens should only North Island teams qualify for super rugby or dare I say Auckland with over a quarter of NZs population does not qualify?
What do you expect the fans to do then Kid?
You know little about NZ rugby and the rivalries that go with it. It is highly unlikely Canterbury supporters would start barracking for Auckland or Bay of Plenty in SR should their own team not qualify.
Then what happens to these fans, they would go elesewhwere possibly to other codes.
How about you concentrate on your own teams and leave NZ rugby to New Zealand.
January 26th 2012 @ 11:41am
Flashy said | January 26th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
The idea that 2 tiers of NPC rugby would continue to exist if provinces took the places of the current franchises and promotion / relegation would occur is lunacy – all that would happen is all the players would gravitate to the initial SR provinces and the rest would be the equivalent of the current heartland sides (equating even more disengagement of the majority) ..
. So the answer to whether Taranaki would beat the Reds or any other SR team – then yes they would be strong enough based on the history of NZ SR teams
January 26th 2012 @ 12:24pm
kovana said | January 26th 2012 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
Look for all the hoopla.. Only 5 teams have won the NPC since 1995… Guess.. Otago, Auckland, Cantabs, Welly and Waikato.
Have pride in your provinces.. Not fast food franchise rubbish.
Also, there are ALREADY 2 divisions in the NPC.. Didnt you know? 7 in each division, Premiership and Championship.
Make it 6 in the Premiership and 8 in the Championship.
Champion of the Championship plays the Lowest ranked Premiership team… Home and away series.. That will decide if they are fit to remain or progress to the top flight.
Why so afraid? It will not lead to disengagement.. It will lead to more passion and pride in Provincial rugby.. Something that is lacking in NZ.
January 26th 2012 @ 12:38pm
Flashy said | January 26th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
I’m fully aware of how many tiers are currently in operation but what you either fail to grasp or don’t want to for the need of argument is that the players will drift to the SR sides – Cruden for instance will leave Manawatu and head to a SR team (what he’s done now – except now he returns to Palm Nth to play for his province) Every player wanting higher honours will end up in those 5 teams – and none of the lower sides will win promotion – so you’ll have a mirror image of the current teams but just playing in provincial colours … Great for the 5 sides deemed worthy – tough for every other provinal fan
January 26th 2012 @ 12:52pm
kovana said | January 26th 2012 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
Why would they drift there? Do you speak on their behalf?
Why does Cruden to play for Manawatu instead of Waikato? Its because of pride.
If all the NPC got the same amount of money.. All will be equal.
Think outside the box. Dont just gobble up that force fed nonsense by the NZRU.
January 26th 2012 @ 4:39pm
Rugbug said | January 26th 2012 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
Once again you avoid the questions at hand.
Do you realise only Five teams have won super rugby since 1996 one of them a whopping 7 times, the next best three a piece and the brumbies twice and reds once?
So your point re the 5 NPC winners is irrelevant
January 26th 2012 @ 4:49pm
Rugbug said | January 26th 2012 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
You ask the question do you speak on their behalf?
Well it’s pretty clear K that you do not speak for or on the behalf of New Zealanders nor it seems Australians so maybe it’s time to pack up your pencils and give it a rest.
We like they way our competitions are structured as they are.
Please tell me what Aaron Cruden will do should in all likeliness Manawatu did not qualify for a the SR?
You could bet your bottom dollar he will be lost to NZ rugby or he will take up residence permanently in a place like Waikato so he could play SR. There is no loyalty when it comes to paying the bills kid and your ill thought concept would kill New Zealand rugby. The Premiership, Championship Lahore and Meads cup are imperative to the success of not only our Super teams but also to that of our national teams at all levels and both forms of the game in 7′s and XV aside.
As it stands in New Zealand the system has been amended so that players whilst they may not stay within the Franchise for SR they can and most do return to play NPC for their home provinces and this is what the players and the NZ public want to see. Super rugby whilst it pays the bills it does not sate the need to do battle with your closest rivals, rivalries that have been forged over generations.
Of course you could never understand this nor does it seem you want to, the most amazing thing is how you are so determined to break down the huge advantage that the NPC and CC give NZ and South Africa.
Hilgendorff once played for Taranaki and a couple more young blokes who’s names escape me at the moment one was/is a Australian 7′s representitive. Fainifo pulled on the Jersey for the moolos only a season or two ago. maybe its time Australia started to look at sending developing players over to the ITM Premiership /Championship and Heartland competitions
January 24th 2012 @ 12:07pm
kingplaymaker said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Rebels it’s true that if Counties Manukau, North Harbour and Bay of Plenty had teams New Zealand would be able to develop much more of its talent, as now there are so few places that young players get held back behind more established ones sometimes permanently.
January 25th 2012 @ 2:11pm
Mario said | January 25th 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Only down side for a qualifaction system is that if say one year, Auckland, Wellington, Waikato, and lets just say Taranaki and Hawkes Bay all qualify for Super Rugby, what do the people in the south island do? Simply stop watching is what most would do.
January 24th 2012 @ 10:44am
benny said | January 24th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
“Phil Waugh, Al Baxter, Sosene Anesi, Luke Burgess, Greg Sommerville, Leroy Houston, Mark Chisholm, Huia Edmonds, Matt Giteau, Stephen Hoiles, Josh Valentine, Matt Dunning, Scott Staniforth” all leaving at the end of last season.
Somerville aside (as a New Zealander), name any one of these players that is currently at test level? Burgess as a back-up is the only one I would have in my team. The rest are well past their prime and/or never of test standard to begin with
No great loss here to Aus rugby at all in my opinion.
January 24th 2012 @ 12:54pm
Comrade Bear said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Agree – re Burgess.
Interesting that Leroy Houston couldn’t make the grade again and is moving on again. I thought last year would finally see him get fit and start to push for a Wallabies spot – given his much hyped potential.
What happenned to Will Chambers – back to league?
January 25th 2012 @ 11:22am
Working Class Rugger said | January 25th 2012 @ 11:22am | Report comment
This may come about as petty but I played against Leroy throughout my junior representative experience and to be honest I never got the hype around him. Yes, he was good but not prodigious as many would suggest. He had the size and development advantage for much of that time but when it came to taking on guys who had the size and strength to go toe to toe with him, he’d often avoid direct confrontations.
January 30th 2012 @ 12:54pm
Denby said | January 30th 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Working Class Rugger,
That sums Leroy up perfectly. He avoids confrontation. I remember when he played for the Tahs, at first I thought he looked to unfit to be a pro athlete and then, when he was on the field he never made an impact. It looks like he spent his whole time avoiding doing the hard yards in training and on the paddock.
I always hoped he would be good, he grew up around my area. Bsides Leroy, the only other player of note we have produced is Dunning.
January 24th 2012 @ 2:18pm
nickoldschool said | January 24th 2012 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Agree but whether we want it or not, those players have all been part of super rugby for the last 10 years, have 50-100 matches under their belt, hence the term ‘senior’. And they all have had an impact at some stage. I think some managers might have even stuck with them this year (if they had stayed in the squad) as putting ‘a name’ on the bench is quite hard for many. But I agree, it’s a good thing for Oz rugby: no dilemma.
January 24th 2012 @ 12:53pm
TembaVJ said | January 24th 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
My god Donald is leaving NZ??? He won them the world cup!! haha unlikely hero.
I want the Lions to shine this year, They can beat the SA teams and getting better at traveling. I am a bulls man and I hope they try and add more adventure just like I hope the boks try the same.
Ill be the first to do this on the roar in 2012… its a luck shot but ill give it a try
Semi finals 2012
Crusaders
Lions
Reds
Blues/Rebels
January 24th 2012 @ 6:10pm
Scarlet said | January 24th 2012 @ 6:10pm | Report comment
Donald has been pretty poor at Bath, one or two good moments but nothing to write home about.
January 24th 2012 @ 6:36pm
Johnno said | January 24th 2012 @ 6:36pm | Report comment
Scarlet Donald has a world cup hangover , like all the players he is just coming down to earth still.
Donald is a world cup hero world class big game pressure 5/8, he will come good at Bath he is a world cup hero scarlet don’t worry.
January 25th 2012 @ 11:10am
Loftus said | January 25th 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Rebels and Lions? Maybe if the other 11 teams pull out of the competition.The Lions won the Currie cup in a World cup year when they had no loss of Springboks and all of a sudden they are world beaters!! Jees, the Rebels? I don’t think I should comment on that one! Very brave predictions.
January 25th 2012 @ 11:34am
TembaVJ said | January 25th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Loftus fortune favors the brave… if I did the usual bunch it wont be much fun.
Lions walloped the Sharks with their full contingent by some margin and did it playing a style of rugby that better suits the new rules.
Besides people said the same about the reds last year.
Its wishful thinking but their is always a chance.
The Rebels are my love child as I live in Melbourne, they surprised last year and now with some top players added to the roster and a excellent defense coach (their big problem last year) who knows, they might make the finals.
January 24th 2012 @ 1:38pm
Comrade Bear said | January 24th 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
I am actually suprised at how little player churn there is this year – apart from the Bulls and Hurricaines that is (and for very different reasons).
TembaVJ – I am not game to pick a final 6 just yet.
Hate to say it – but I think the Waratahs will make the 6 this year – their forward pack looks too handy to make a mess of things (Not sure if they will ever manage to all be fit at the same time though). Rebels have a handy backline but not sure if their forwards will be able to provide them with enough quality ball.
January 24th 2012 @ 2:25pm
stillmissit said | January 24th 2012 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
When SBW did his runner I asked a mate of mine about the impact on his Canterbury league club. ‘Nothing mate! opens up an opportunity for another talented youngster.’
I have thought about this and I think he is right. There is so much young, raw talent out there they just need time to get used to the speed and intensity before they step up and become the new ‘irreplaceable’s’. Any club needs a rough mixture of 25% youngsters, 25% oldies and 50% at their peak.
Looking forwards to the season but I can’t feel the love of winning coming out of NSW.
BTW – that was a bloody impressive list of players lost.