Wishing for State of Origin to come back to AFL
Roar Rookie By Fitzy, 26 Jan 2012 Fitzy is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- Adam Schneider, AFL, AFL state of origin, Brent Staker, Justin Koschitzke, Kieran Jack, Lenny Hayes, Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Tom Hawkins
Is now the time for State of Origin to return to the AFL? Some of us are old enough to remember State of Origin, with the passion it generated between The Big V and South Australia.
We remember the big V being defeated by New South Wales (some of whom were selected because they spent time in New South Wales on holiday).
We remember the high-scoring affairs of The Big V against Western Australia. Who of that era will ever forget Plugger embracing Teddy Whitten, and that emotional last lap for that footy great in his last days?
Then we wonder, will it ever come back? And what went wrong in the first place, was it a combination of things or one single thing? For mine it was because we never really embraced the concept as important, we were more concerned with tribal victories than seeing the greats competing at a higher level?
Perhaps it’s because, bragging rights aside, there wasn’t really anything to gain. But for those of you who still miss the concept, as I do, isn’t it time it was back on the agenda?
Whatever happens, Australian rules football will always lack that representative aspect that both rugby codes and football have naturally. Of course there is the International Rules series, but it has never been the same. So in the interests of discussion I will put forward my idea.
First, don’t copy the format from rugby league. Being compared to something that has such history and passion would only hurt the concept, as well as meaning the best players may not be available. No fan wants to see their stars hurt or suspended mid-season when a premiership is at stake.
Second, make it so there is something more on the line than bragging rights. Lastly, don’t overdo it.
My suggestion is to hold a proper championship every three years, and have every state represented. Victoria, South Australia, West Australia, Tasmania, New South Wales/ACT, and Queensland/Northern Territory.
Have it run in the off season, say the month of November, and have everyone play each other once.
It means there will be three home games for Victoria, South Australia, and Western Australia, but only two for NSW/ACT, Queensland/NT and Tasmania (which could be played at Metricon, Skoda, etc).
Have a top three with second and third playing off to meet first in the final.
The biggest obstacle of course will be the clubs – no-one wants to lose a player to injury, so offer the clubs compensation picks according to value. Chris Judd would equal a late first-round pick, and so on.
The AFL could also pay the player’s wages for the duration of the injury. Lastly, the club concerned would have their number of players on their list and their cap increased to fit that player in.
To ensure that the best players play, only those selected for state honors could be selected for all-Australian sides and International Rules series. Lastly, reduce the NAB cup format to allow players to recover.
Just think, Kieran Jack, Lenny Hayes, Tom Hawkins, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider, Lewis Roberts-Thompson, Brent Staker and the like, all wearing light blue. Ah, to dream!
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January 26th 2012 @ 12:38pm
Lachlan said | January 26th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
I think your idea can work. It seems like it ticks all the boxes. My idea is to play it in the middle of the year every year. with (not my original idea) a divisional system. Friday Night (Curtain-raiser) VFL vs WAFL, Victoria vs Western Australia. Saturday SANFL vs TSL (curtain-raiser) South Australia vs Tasmania. Saturday Night NEAFL East vs NEAFL North (Curtain-Raiser) New South Wales/ACT vs Queensland/Northern Territory. Division 1, Division 2 losers go down division (both State leagues and state teams) Division 3, Division 2 winners move-up (both State league teams and state teams).
No AFL games played over Weekend. Also perfect time to introduce Mid-Season Trade Week. hint, hint.
I also support your plan, i believe either could work. It’s time we bring back the original State of Origin, sick of every year hearing about Rugby League SOO, like everything else they can’t come up with anything original.
January 26th 2012 @ 1:58pm
piesman2011 said | January 26th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
With the growth of the game in Qld and NSW in 5-10 years we could be looking at a 6 team comp over 3 rounds. I would play it with VIC, WA, SA, Tas, Qld and NSW. I would play it at the start of the season during the NAB cup. The best players play SOO while the rookies play NAB cup. This is how I would do the 3 rounds
Week 1: team 1 and 2 bye (team 1 and 2 would be the finalist from last time) Team 3 V 6 and Team 4 V 5
Week 2 team 1V 4 and Team 2 V 3
Week 3 Final
I would play the games Tuesday and Wednesday prime time (similar to RL)
I would also pay every player 10K per match and an extra 10 K bonus for the SOO champions. (40K max total). This should encourage the best players to play (10K is the equivalent to 1 weeks wages for someone on $520, 000). 25 players per team. Every player should play at least 75% game time.
The TV rights with a good TV audience (2M+) and full grounds would easily cover the player payments and cost of the venue hire. (total player payments would be 2.5 million over 5 games). NT and ACT players could probabaly choose where they want to play some will have conections with various states through their AFL clubs.
January 26th 2012 @ 2:13pm
Ian Whitchurch said | January 26th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
No.
State of Origin existed because WA and SA teams did not play in the top competition. Now, they do.
All State of Origin will do is distract from and dilute the week-in, week-out competition, which is why resurrecting it is a dumb idea.
When in doubt, look at what the two rugby codes do, and do the opposite – no national club competition, set one up. No player draft, do one. No investment to help the code in growth areas, do that. They do State of Origin and rep games, so dont do that.
January 26th 2012 @ 2:31pm
piesman2011 said | January 26th 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Ian, there will always be disagrement with this sort of thing. I disagree with you on this, I think it could be quite a valuable asset to the AFL calander if done during the NAB cup as this will not inpact players or clubs. It may even promote more interest in areas such as NSW and Qld in our game if done right.
January 26th 2012 @ 2:02pm
Fitzy said | January 26th 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
I agree there are some worthy considerations but the downfall in his vision will always be there, which is if one of the top five of ur side got injured and u missed the finals by some very close losses how would feel. At present u could elevate a rookie but ur not geeting adequate compensation are u. Thats why Im suggesting after the season. Players are already starting pre-season at this time, players might hold off on surgury for the honor if its not coming around each year. As far as stadia is concerned there is Pattersons, Aami, Edihad, Skoda, Metricon and many more that dont have cricket. It will happen at traditionally at a quiet time so more likely footy tragics will embrace it (before anyone pipes in with HAL and cricket they play in our season and dont care).
January 26th 2012 @ 2:21pm
piesman2011 said | January 26th 2012 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
I would still like to see the SOO played before the start of the season. Why? The following reasons
1. To many injuried players at the end of the year (or in the middle of the year they are focused on their club getiing into finals etc)
2. Players want to go on holidays at the end of the year (not many good players would sign up) or if it was in the middle of the year this is unfair on clubs.
3. Players are playing NAB cup anyway or at least practice games. They could just as easily get injuried in these games (+ 10 K would help them decide to play SOO if not state pride)
4. If they do get injuried in the SOO game usually 2-4 weeks before the start of the season most players would be ready to play at the start or near the start of the season anyway. Baring a 10 week + injury
5. With 25 players in each team you can rotate players and give them all less overall game time (reduce injuries) perhaps you could say max game time for a midfielder should be 80% in as SOO match to reduce injuries.
January 26th 2012 @ 5:05pm
Fitzy said | January 26th 2012 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
I agree maybe NAB is the way to go
January 26th 2012 @ 2:50pm
joe blackswan said | January 26th 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
I agree with other posters that aussie rules SOO died a natural death with the establishment of AFL clubs in all the major aussie rules states….this is not a bad thing as it makes sure that AFL is the premier series and passions can remain focused.
Rugby League SOO will never die as it is, and most leaguies would agree, the premier rugby league series in the world….unfortunately I think this also dilutes passion for the NRL regular season. And we don’t want that for AFL…..also tribalism is so ingrained in AFL that I think it would be viewed as novelty value only by fans.
However….I think the AFL will, from time to time, will support one-off games as either money spinners or crowd pleasers….but never as a regular series. Anyway…WA would win all the time and the victorian led AFL would drop the concept again.
January 26th 2012 @ 3:41pm
The_Wookie said | January 26th 2012 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
I support a carnival every couple of years based around the traditional divides
WA, SA, Vic, Tas, QLD, NSW/ACT, NT and a new All Star “Foreign legion” team. See the Bicentennial Carnival for how it could work. Play the matches over a couple of weeks, be more like the Olympics of Australian Football.
January 26th 2012 @ 8:13pm
sheek said | January 26th 2012 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
It would be great to see Australian football state-of-origin just to hear & read those nicknames again – “Big V” (Victoria), “Croweaters” (SA), “Sandgropers” (WA), “Apple Islanders” (Tasmania), “Cornstalkers” (NSW) & “Banana Benders” (Qld).
I know the Cornstalkers will throw people, but I do recall reading it somewhere – maybe on Convict Creations, where they’re inclined to trash everyone!
BTW – SOO every 3 years? I believe that’s precisely what the All-Australian carnival, the fore-runner of SOO, tried to do. Most often every 3 years from 1908 to whenever the last SOO game was, in the 90s I think.
January 26th 2012 @ 11:57pm
stabpass said | January 26th 2012 @ 11:57pm | Report comment
Most of the nicknames are self explanatory, but cornstalkers may not be as much as the others.
From memory cornstalkers were the very first generation of born Australians, after Great Britain settled the country, they were so named because they were generally taller and stronger than their British/irish born parents, and seeing NSW was the first settlement, it is an apt name i suppose, but on the other hand, a good imagination.
January 28th 2012 @ 9:59pm
BigAl said | January 28th 2012 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
The reason the All-Australian carnivals were discontinued was because they lost so much money !
I just can’t see however this concept could be resurrected.
January 27th 2012 @ 1:04am
LT80 said | January 27th 2012 @ 1:04am | Report comment
It might work better on a challenge basis, with only the genuine Aus football states competing.
One game per year.
1st year Victoria Vs South Australia.
2nd year Current champion Vs Western Australia
etc…
There’s little point in including NSW or Queensland – there will be very little interest in watching these teams go around, and the players probably won’t want to take part in a second-rate match.
Poor old Tassie might have to sit out though, sorry!
January 27th 2012 @ 7:36am
Ian Whitchurch said | January 27th 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
LT80 is elegantly summarising one of the many reasons why SOO fails – the things you do to make it a commercial success help to shrink the code.
January 28th 2012 @ 8:43am
Fitzy said | January 28th 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Dont know how you mean shrink the code, for mine SOO was the only thing that saved RL duringbtecSL years, in the ARL had something that people were interested in. I really want to get away from their concept mainly because comparing it to something that is successful and works will just give nay sayers something to crow about. IMO it could work in the off season, as long as the pre-season draft was after it and its not done to death but more like a world cup format. I hate this argument that we see SOO every week with teams from WA, SA. It really has no strength, if we accept that argument then what do we call SYD v MELB where combined teams will feature 4-6 nswmen, 6-10 WA, 20-25 VIC etc. The concept is called SOO for a reason, I would love to see NSW take the field as NSW regardless of the result and if you played the game at regional centers you will get a crowd. So how is it going to hurt the game, baseless arguments.
January 28th 2012 @ 9:18am
Ian Whitchurch said | January 28th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Fitzy,
SoO hurts league in two ways.
The first one is it gives the code three days a year where it can lie to itself and say the code is healthy.
The second way is it focusses the code on the existing strong states, not on growth areas.
The AFL isnt growing Australian Rules in Queensland and NSW by offering Origin spots, where you can either play for “the Rest” or get thumped by a record score, or both. Its growing it by giving players from those states a better grade of competition to play in, by nurturing the equivalent of the Queensland and Metro Cups.
Finally, the reason SoO worked in the early days is it gave Western Australian and South Australian fans a local team to cheer for, in a game that involved all the players who played week in and week out in Melbourne, and the locals who were good enough but didnt make the move. With teams playing top grade all over the country, this reason disappears.
State of Origin, just say no thank you.
January 28th 2012 @ 9:26am
The Cattery said | January 28th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
I agree with all of those points. The premiership is the pinnacle for both the players and fans, and that’s fine by me.
January 27th 2012 @ 11:33pm
Gr8rWeStnr said | January 27th 2012 @ 11:33pm | Report comment
IMO, SOO should have a place in the AFL Commission’s desire to expand AFL frontiers. It should be seen as a showcase of the very best of AFL skills for the not yet devotees, that can also be enjoyed by the devotees. Too much will detract from the AFL, I think no SOO team should play more than 3 games a season, so an everyone plays everyone else round robin is out.
As a start Michael DiFabrizio’s structure, http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/08/12/how-to-structure-an-afl-state-of-origin/ , could be used as a trial on a stand alone week after the NAB Cup final but before the season proper starts, created by compressing NAB Cup Round 1 into a single weekend.
If SOO served its purpose of getting wider attention, it could expand to 3 stand alone SOO matches evenly spaced across the season. The essence of the competition would be an 8 team knock out (e.g. Vic, Tas, SA, WA, NT, QLD, NSW, ACT).
Basic structure:
Round 1:
G1: Seed 1 v Random 1
G2: Seed 2 v Random 2
G3: Seed 3 v Random 3
G4: Seed 4 v Random 4
Round 2:
G5: Winner G1 v Winner G4
G6: Winner G2 v Winner G3
G8: Loser G1 v Loser G3
G9: Loser G2 v Loser G4
Final Round:
G7: Winner G5 v Winner G6 – SOO Grand Final
G10: Loser G5 v Loser G6 – 3rd/4th playoff
G11: Winner G8 v Winner G9 – 5th/6th playoff
G12: Loser G8 v Loser G9 – 7th/8th playoff
Games G8-G12 are optional but would make clear where teams stand each year and may work better for television deal purposes. AFL could offer 4 games each SOO weekend, something the NRL cant. Another option for additional games on SOO weekends would be Foxtel Cup matches.
The other main issue is defining a players SOO so players who first played in a weaker state but moved to a stronger state for more opportunity and ends up playing for the stronger state.
January 28th 2012 @ 12:06pm
gleeso said | January 28th 2012 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
State of Origin enhances Rugby League immeasurably. However, ask any Rugby League player and they will tell you that to win a premiership with your team mates is the pinnacle. Ian Whitchurch is wrong.
With Origin, League gets three great TV audiances a year in addition to very good week to week TV audiances (better than AFLs).
Although the best players come together for Origin it does not produce the highest standard of Rugby League. Club level league does.
Origin compliments the NRL season perfectly. It provides variety that AFL does not have. The monotony of the AFL season means that Victorian’s make this oddly big deal out of presentation nights, childrens drafts and pre season competitions.
January 28th 2012 @ 1:18pm
it's called football said | January 28th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Several incorrect assertions in what Gleeso says:
1. League week-to-week Pay TV audiences may be better than AFL – but not on FTA. That is because there is less live AFL on Fox than NRL. There are also more NRL subscribers, because they are denied most of their games on FTA.
2. The very high attendances that AFL gets week-in week-out would not be possible if it were monotonous, as he suggests. As an NRL man, I doubt he has attended more than a few (if any) AFL games. And if he did, it would be with a closed mind.
January 28th 2012 @ 1:37pm
The Cattery said | January 28th 2012 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Gleeso
SOO is a huge phenomenon on the Australian sporting landscape, and its figures are massive – no question about it.
But the counter argument is that it takes a large chunk of focus away from the NRL proper – by definition, the NRL plays second fiddle while SOO is on.
Also, the idea of two states playing each other ad infinitum is inconsistent with an expansionist strategy. Can you truly expect the fans of the Storm, for arguments sake, sit back and watch their stars fight it out for this series that in all honesty, they have zero stake in – when a Melburnian puts down their hard earned on a membership on their team – they want their teams and players focusing on winning the comp – they don’t give a fig about extraneous activities.
Finally – people shouldn’t think that getting ratings of 2 mill three times per season is as good as getting 5+ million per round for a solid 7 months of the year, representing a sum of 360 million eyes per hour of product – it’s not.
January 28th 2012 @ 2:51pm
Redb said | January 28th 2012 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Week to week NRL goes down the toilet in the Origin period.
January 28th 2012 @ 3:30pm
Ian Whitchurch said | January 28th 2012 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
Gleeso said
“Although the best players come together for Origin it does not produce the highest standard of Rugby League. Club level league does.”
Nope. Not even close to true. Origin is consistently not only the very best games of rugby league, but the very best games of any sort of football.
Regrettably, this devalues the week-in, week-out NRL.
January 28th 2012 @ 2:42pm
Lachlan said | January 28th 2012 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Along with many of the members on this article, i agree that State of Origin died with Ted Whitten. State of Origin was an annual event which changed over time to eventually bring all states and territories together. It was played so that every state and territory had a team to follow. Now that their are 8 teams outside Victoria, each state barring Tasmania having two teams, it’s easy for the general public to follow a team at the elite level. Although Tasmania don’t have a team, the north gets 4 premiership games a year and the south as of this year getting 2, but expect that number to rise. Canberra has had many teams their during the last decade, now have a the Giants playing 3 premiership games a year their for a further decade. Darwin/Northern Territory, although doesn’t have a team linked to their as such, which i believe either a victorian team or Port Adelaide will be linked to their soon, they get up to 2 premiership games a year, but the territory certainly gets behind THe “NT Thunder” who won the inaugural NEAFL premiership and went close to the last 4 teams in the Foxtel Cup.
January 30th 2012 @ 11:02pm
Jason Cave said | January 30th 2012 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
Picture it if you will.
Victoria is playing Western Australia in the revived State of Origin series.
In the Victorian team is the champion full-back from Geelong, Matthew Scarlett; on the WA side of the ledger, we have Hawthorn full-forward Lance Franklin.
The ball is kicked in WA’s F50, Franklin comes running in to mark the ball, Scarlett tackles him from behind.
Franklin clutches his knee in total pain and is taken off on a stretcher.
The end result is that Lance Franklin is out for the season with a serious knee injury, out for up to 12 months.
The Hawks nosedive out if the finals, and are very unhappy with the result of Franklin’s injury.
This is the same situation that happened in the 1989 Vic-SA State of Origin match at the MCG, where SA’s Tony Hall did his knee after being tackled from behind by his Victorian opponent (and Hawthorn team-mate) Andy Collins. Hall came back but was never the same player again.