More rugby league players to defect to the AFL?
Roar Guru By Fitzy, 31 Jan 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
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- AFL, AFL expansion, Australian Rules, Kieran Jack, rugby, Rugby League, Rugby Union, western Sydney
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There has been a lot of discussion of the merits of the AFL’s expansion into Sydney’s west – rugby league’s heartland. Many have quoted participation rates, memberships and TV ratings as justification of their particular position.
Maybe we’re all looking at the wrong indicators. Looking recently at those statistics got me thinking to when I was a boy growing up in Manly playing Australian Rules.
The lighthearted and at times quite nasty criticism that I copped from followers of mainly rugby league but also rugby union made me at times question why I decided to play and why they were so against me playing.
Surprisingly, after a couple of years, those same kids played a couple of games for my school in the state knockout! So for me the real statistic that matters is when boys who come from a league or union background decide to play: deciding to play the game in spite of their peers and committing to playing in the hope that maybe one day they may get a career playing AFL.
We all know the story of Keiran Jack making that decision. But recently others like Brandon Jack, Jack Barrett and Ned Mortimer have done the same.
The pressure for those boys to play the same sport as their fathers and family must be enormous; how some must look at them at times with a sense of betrayal and confusion.
Yet their families all seem to give the same support, commitment and encouragement. It’s a lot to give up; the honor of playing for the same club as your father, representing your state and possibly your country.
Why do they do it? For me it’s the initiatives the AFL has put in place over the last decade.
The Auskick program, which puts a presence at grassroots level throughout Australia, the academies of both the Swans and GWS that give them the ability to learn at a higher level.
The AFL NSW scholarship program, which gives a kids a pathway into the AFL system, the rookie list, allows a player to learn and develop into an AFL player whilst in the AFL system, and lastly the work and endeavor of Jack and co that prove that it can be done.
Another reason maybe that both rugby codes have large numbers of players of Polynesian descent.
These boys generally are larger and have greater muscle mass at an earlier age, which makes it harder to compete in a sport where speed and endurance count less than brute power and strength.
With 18 positions on the field there are more positions for kids with the smaller body types to play a role.
Even if the defection of Folau and Hunt to Aussie Rules means more boys of Polynesian descent take up the game, we won’t see islander boys dominate the AFL draft like it has come to dominate both rugby codes’ recruitments, as it will always be a game that requires more than two body types.
In any event, although we have only heard of a few boys with rugby backgrounds making the switch and not enough to declare it a trend, it does lead us to ask is it the start of a trend.
Only time will tell but we are safe in the knowledge that the potential for growth in Sydney is there.
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January 31st 2012 @ 7:14am
p.Tah said | January 31st 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
‘[AFL] will always be a game that requires more than two body types’ I’d suggest that Rugby Union has more diverse body sizes/shapes than AFL. It isn’t a game that relies on brute strength and power. If it did the Polynesian and Eastern European countries would rule world rugby. There are elements of the game that require those traits and there are positions that require them, but line out jumping, goal kicking, kicking for territory and back play require speed and skill.
I do agree that there is potential for growth in Sydney and if it offers more opportunity for kids to play sport or have a professional well paid career then that’s fine by me.
January 31st 2012 @ 8:07am
allblackfan said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
p. tah, rugby union does rely on brute strength and power as much as running and skill (contested scrums, rolling mauls, rucking etc) but you’re right that RU has more diverse body shapes. Frankly, I can’t see a RU prop making the conversion to AFL (but a RL prop could well do it since RL players are smaller).
What makes RL players more suited to make the switch is the running; RL is far more of a stamina game than RU although both suffer compared to AFL.
What I would interest me regarding the Folau experiment is to see if he can last the entire game and at the same consistent level. Years ago, a Kiwi uni accademic did an anthropoligical study of why Polynesians are such good rugby players (I got hold of the main conclusions). Basically, he found Polynesians have a combined muscle/twitch muscular structure which allows them to bulk up yet run at great speed but at a cost: stamina. He said this is why Polynesians can adapt so well to a physical contact sport like RU, RL and NFL but you will never see them in a marathon or excel in swimming.
January 31st 2012 @ 8:35am
Rodney McDonell said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Like!
January 31st 2012 @ 8:41am
p.Tah said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
regarding “rugby union does rely on brute strength and power as much as running and skill ” you are right I should have been more specific. I was thinking of stars such as Shane Williams (170cm and 80kg) when I said that.
January 31st 2012 @ 8:56am
Australian Rules said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Nice comment abf.
I recall people talking about Izzy having the worst “engine” at both Storm and Broncos. This is his greatest challenge, being able to maintain the running required in Aussie Rules. The past 12 months have all been about re-conditioning his body and by looking at him you can see the weight that has been stripped off him. Brownlow medal midfielders Robert Harvey and Shane Crawford ran with GPS trackers on game day and they would chalk up over 20ks a game. That’s running a half marathon every week, with ball skills and contact!
January 31st 2012 @ 8:57am
Ian Whitchurch said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:57am | Report comment
Allblackfan,
A “traditional” full forward – and look on youtube for Tour de Lockett to see the best – doesnt do much running. The plan is for them to stand near the goal square and make short 10-15 meter leads to open space when your team has the ball, relying on the fact that the defensive team wont leave them unmarked and alone.
January 31st 2012 @ 10:20am
Redb said | January 31st 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Was going to make the same point. Although that is the Fevola ‘stay at home’ type model he never liked running or the modern game of forwards moving up the ground to shut down space. Folau will be expected to run a fair bit, but nowhere hear as much as a midfielder or half forward or half back.
Folau has changed his body shape dramatically so its hard to know if his stamina will be an issue as his body type and fitness would be completely different.
January 31st 2012 @ 2:04pm
Jaceman said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
Opposing full backs ran off him easily in last years NEAFL so he is going to struggle with that part next year especailly as the ball wont get down there too often….
January 31st 2012 @ 2:33pm
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Yeh, I saw one game where some teenager was standing Izzy. Izzy was very good contesting the ball in the air, and was ok trapping it in the forward line, but if this kid got a few metres on him, he was off, 40, 50m down the flank, Izzy wasn’t doing too much chasing!
January 31st 2012 @ 3:53pm
Kris said | January 31st 2012 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
The problem with that is that the “traditional” full forward in the plugger model hasn’t been about for a while now. The modern game demands far too much in terms of defensive pressure from all forwards to carry a bloke in the hope that he’ll kick four or five week in, week out.
January 31st 2012 @ 8:46am
Fitzy said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
I wasn’t trying to deride RU, just passing the observation that nature of sport with rolling scrums being a big part of the game lends itself to a larger body mass than leaner type. The skills required for RU are equally comparable to AR for ability(Mike Pike is an example of this), my point there was you dont see the body types of the Stephen Milne, Aaron Sandilands or Lewis Jetta, sml Fwd, ruckman and winger. Because of different nature of the sports bigger body mass will be an asset in RU, RL but maybe not in AR.
January 31st 2012 @ 9:19am
allblackfan said | January 31st 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
I’ve noticed that when the ABs in time past had joint training sessions with Collingwood during a Bledisloe Cup in Melbourne, the AB locks (or lock forwards) tended to impress the AFL players most with their combination of height (around 6’6″ to 6’8″), weight (about 105-118kg) and strength (bench press about 180-220kg although I am guessing) although stamina was never compared. I always thought RU lock forwards may be able to make the switch in terms of full forward roles (I assume they have to be taller and beefier to be able to contest for the ball?)
January 31st 2012 @ 9:25am
Ian Whitchurch said | January 31st 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
With a “gorilla” full forward, yes. There are other styles of full forward … compare Tony Lockett with James Hird, for example.
If I was looking for those players to convert, I wouldnt look at locks from union – I’d look at tight ends from American football, as they already know how to run into space in a burst and catch a ball. If we can teach them to kick – and remember, by definition they dont have any bad habits to be trained out of – then we might have a servicable gorilla.
January 31st 2012 @ 2:06pm
Jaceman said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Nathan Sharpe was a ruckman before switching to RU but didnt rate himself at all. Same with that West Aussie second rower who played for NSW and the Force…
February 3rd 2012 @ 4:10pm
Jaceman said | February 3rd 2012 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
John Welborn – good name for a Rugby player
February 1st 2012 @ 11:55am
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 11:55am | Report comment
I think we need to state this once and for all…there’s no place for the small forward to use the basketball term in Australian Football. Thus it is not a sport for every body…but then again very few sports are. But on another note the optimistic future I hope we all get is where/when allfour football codes intellectual capital is sufficiently available/sharable between each of the four that while all bodies can’t play all four…all minds can. I’d love to see Football polymaths again!
January 31st 2012 @ 7:30am
Redb said | January 31st 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
Good article Fitzy.
I doubt there will be many if any high profile players move from a rugby code to AFL, its at the grass roots and teen years where there might be some movement as the game becomes more mainstream.
Its in this area conversely, that outside a few private schools in Vic & WA for rugby and in particular rugby league they face their biggest battle with the cultural, family and historical ties to the incumbent sport which are deeply embedded. So far Australian football has a fair lead over the rugby codes in expanding the game into non traditional areas.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:07pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Redb. I’m not sure that’s entirely true as Australian Football’s had a kernel of support in Sydney, Brisbane and Newcastle (partic) since the days when the Federal code was being pushed as means to unproblematically winter cricketers. Any growth that the TV is now capturing started all the way back then….boosted by the live TV and Live foorty in town. And you’ll also notice that not too many people are letting go of the Rugbies when they play or grow to like Australian Football…because in the North it’s OK to like more than one
February 1st 2012 @ 3:24pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
jaredsbro,
if anything you back up my statement that Aust football has a fair lead over the rugby codes. Dont forget rugby has been played in melbourne for a 100 years, but like Aust Football in Sydney, it was not the code of choice because it never gained a critical mass,etc.
I’m not interesting in conspiracy theories either as both Sydney and Melb had their reasons or power bases to protect which impacted respectively on either code.
February 1st 2012 @ 3:43pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Yes but Rugby Union doesn’t have that (or even remotely approaching) universal church structure…even in the Privacy (Law) Schools of Sydney or Brisbane. That’s exactly what Australian Football purports (and is closest to ever achieving if it’s even possible) to be. Whether it is probably isn’t relevant. I’d say the above statement only because of Australian Football’s seeming cross-sectional appeal and the assumption that this should mean (for some) that it should be at the head of the Football table.
February 1st 2012 @ 4:18pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
Your talking rubbish re church strucutre,etc. Nonsensical gibberish.
February 10th 2012 @ 6:59pm
Jaredsbro said | February 10th 2012 @ 6:59pm | Report comment
As far as analogies go maybe it’s a stretch, but it seems to me that Australian Football’s strength is its cross-sectional appeal a bit like a Catholic-style service, which is the most popular denomination within wider Christendom by some way. So is the AFL within Australia…even where much of the populace have turned on the code (Western Sydney say) the elites are more likely to be believers, such as the prestige afforded the National Cathedral and its congregation in the United States or Kevin Rudd as an Australian example.
January 31st 2012 @ 8:02am
Punter said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
St George’s great Rod ‘Rocket’ Reddy’s son Liam Reddy plays in the A-League for SFC, his other son Joel plays RL for Parramatta & daughter Bianca plays netball at the highest level.
I do hope Rod & his wife didn’t didn’t put pressure on Liam & Bianca to play Rugby league, being good parents they should allow they children to choose their profession & because they choose a sport that was not the same that made they dad famous, I do hope they do not see it as a betrayal.
Another St George great Craig ‘fat Albert’ Young had a great career at RL, his father was a socceroo.
This happens it’s not unique where children chooses a different sport to their fathers or mothers.
January 31st 2012 @ 8:24am
Fitzy said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:24am | Report comment
I understand it is not unique to AR my point is simply AR is now becoming a realistic option to kids just like RL, RU and soccer.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:11pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
That’s an interesting part of this isn’t it? Yes there’s pressure, but these kids are sitting on pedigree and it begs the question about whether it should totally be about free will or more about doing what you’re best at
January 31st 2012 @ 8:36am
Rodney McDonell said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Rugby League players are better suited for those positions in AFL that require less indurance, more power. Like a fullfoward or a back. No doubts thats where Izzy will play in the future. I’m surprised Karmichal didn’t end up there, but as a full back he would have been one of the fittest guys in the NRL and so might make the transition to some other AFL position with more ease than most rugby players.
January 31st 2012 @ 8:51am
stabpass said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
K H is way to small (height) to be a full forward, and does not posess the Daicos like skills that a smaller FF would need to get away with it.
They are looking at using him this year, as a sort of a minder/path clearer for G Ablett junior, i am quite sceptical of the RL signings, but from all accounts he has been extremely professional, but still it must be very hard for him.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:21pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Stabpass,
If you apply the same standards to him as you would to a mid-first round pick, Hunt did just fine.
As well, his 25 possession game playing in the midfield in the seconds show he has the ability to be an inside midfielder, if he can develop the tank.
January 31st 2012 @ 10:48am
Tony said | January 31st 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Waiting for anti-AFL rant from JVGO,et al
February 1st 2012 @ 4:01am
JVGO said | February 1st 2012 @ 4:01am | Report comment
Well here’s one just for you Tony.
Firstly you might enjoy this article pointing out how the AFL states have to hire NSWmen to fill their cricket teams as they can’t produce any decent cricketers of their own because…I don’t know…I guess they’re maybe playing AFL or something.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/cricket/nsw-carrying-australian-cricket/story-fn67wv6z-1226257713869
But i think there might be some light at the end of the tunnel Tony. If we look at the figures we may be able to derive an equation whereby through AFL expansion everything can be fixed.
Looking at the Australian test team we notice it contains
1 Victorian
0 South Aussies
2Tasmanians
2 West Aussies
0 Qlders
7 NSWmen
Now looking at the figures it’s obvious that since Qld and SA have no reps the AFL has got it just about right in those states. They don’t need any more teams there.
WA has two players but one of them is Sean Marsh who will naturally will be replaced very soon, probably by a NSWmen, so the situation seems OK there too.
But any fool (even a NSWmen) can tell the situation in Tasmania urgently needs addressing. How a state with the population of Tasmania can produce two international cricketers, and good ones too, is just unbelievable. Think of all the potential AFL talent going to waste. So straight away the AFL needs to put 2 teams in Tasmania.
And NSW, my god, the AFL urgently needs at least 7 or 8 teams in Sydney, or maybe they could be scattered about NSW, take your pick. I mean Wagga Wagga obviously needs its own team doesn’t it? This is the only way this imbalance can be addressed.
I think Tony if you can get these figures to Sheed’s before the next presser the AFL can get the new expansion equation underway. Yes Sydney needs 7 or 8 AFL teams now.
February 1st 2012 @ 8:35am
The Cattery said | February 1st 2012 @ 8:35am | Report comment
JVGO
welcome to the real world. The Storm and Rebels have to get their players from other states, the Swans, Lions, Suns and giants have to get most of their players from other states, even Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea are getting most of their players from outside of England, and I suspect the Patriots get most of their players from outside of Massachussets – welcome to professional sport.
February 1st 2012 @ 9:32am
Australian Rules said | February 1st 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
I think the point that JVGO is pressing is: yes, non-NSW states are filling their rep teams with NSW cricketers (which makes sense given NSW has the biggest population and the most registered players)…but more alarmingly, this is due to the AFL weakening the very fabric of this country’s international sporting competitiveness…and turning all our kids…AFL-like!!!
Well, if you want your country to be one-dimensional and have a sole focus (like Canada with hockey, NZ with rugby or India with cricket) then, by all means, subscribe to JVGOs ridiculous premise. Those countries hardly set the world on fire for anything else do they?
However, if you prefer a breadth of sports, a variety of athletes, multiple options for young kids (and yes, that includes a strong domestic Australian brand of football as well), then ignore his tin-foil hattedness and enjoy the remarkable opportunities this country has for its young athletes.
And Australia (a wee country of just 20M) still finish top 4 in the Olympics almost every time.
(cue Twightlight zone music)
February 1st 2012 @ 11:35am
JVGO said | February 1st 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
No, that’s not the point I’m making at all AR. In fact what I’m saying is exactly the opposite. If you want a sporting monoculture dominated by one sport check the AFL states. If you prefer a more balanced and varied internationally competitive sporting fabric you might like to preseve the traditional sporting culture of Sydney where AFL has always played a very minor role.
February 1st 2012 @ 11:48am
The Cattery said | February 1st 2012 @ 11:48am | Report comment
JVGO
Australian Football has been subsidising cricket infrastructure for over 140 years now, so you could also make the argument that Australian cricket is stronger for the existence of the game that was invented to keep cricketers fit in Winter.
But I have to say, your argument uses a very narrow focus, preferring to rely on stats of a few sports you happen to like.
As I have mentioned before, Victoria contributes significantly to the sports of Lacrosse, Hockey, Biathlon and Bocce.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:27pm
Jaceman said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
Ryan Harris comes from SA and Shane Watson comes from Qld.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:34pm
JVGO said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Cattery, to quote your own very eloquent words from a couple of days ago.
“As for Olympic sports – a recent report on Olympic sports quite rightly concluded that taxpayers are forking out hundreds of millions of dollars per annum to support sports that Australians don’t give a damn about and which does nothing to increase the participation of children in sport.
The time has come to give the Olympics the flick – if individuals want to pursue Olympic glory – let them do it at their own expense.
The AFL does a much better job at sports participation in Australia than the Olympic movement – and it costs the taxpayer next to nothing.”
Ouch.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:38pm
JVGO said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
Jaceman, Ryan Harris is a NSWmen and Shane Watson didn’t playin the last test. The 7 NSWmen were David Warner, Ed Cowan, Michael Clarke, Brad Haddin, Ryan Harris, Nathan Lyon and Mitchell Starc (12th man).
February 1st 2012 @ 2:47pm
Australian Rules said | February 1st 2012 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
JVGO
“If you want a sporting monoculture dominated by one sport check the AFL states.”
This is just not true at all.
First, if we take, for example, South Australia: you cannot conclude that because SA has less current Test players than NSW, the reason lies because SA is an “AFL state” and thus, AFL somehow damages our cricket potential. Such a statement completely ignores the fact that the S.A population is about 1.6M and NSW is over 7M…of course NSW will produce more cricketers.
It also assumes that people in “AFL states” are more one-eyed devotees to that game, than people in “NRL states” are to League. Most people in Queensland would defy someone doubting their passion for League, a game they’ve dominated NSW in for years. And they still produce guys like Hayden, Border, McDermott, Healy…not to mention all the Wallabies and Reds players…and the swimmers…and Greg Norman, Jason Day, Rod Laver.. etc etc etc.
Further, Victoria, despite being completely AFL mad, has the greatest sporting diversity of any city, in terms of the number of professional teams that call it home. It’s also the home of tennis, racing, motorsport et al. And has produced champions like Cadel Evans, Warne, Deeks, John Bertand, Peter Thomson…you can make a list for any state.
Tassie (AFL mad and with barely 500k) has produced Ponting, Boon, Walker etc.
Fact is, NSW SHOULD produce more athletes than anyone because it has easily the biggest population. Looking at the glut of NSW players in the current Test squad and pointing to AFL as the reason other states aren’t as well-represented is just an arrogant and simplistic conclusion.
February 1st 2012 @ 3:09pm
Tony said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
“arrogant & simplistic conclusion” – you are an outstanding judge, AR
February 1st 2012 @ 3:28pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
So what’s wrong with QLD – too much rugby league I suspect.
February 2nd 2012 @ 4:15am
JVGO said | February 2nd 2012 @ 4:15am | Report comment
So by your own logic AR since NSW with a population of 7 million should produce more cricketers, say 7, in the national team then I guess Victoria only has a population of 1 million. Where did all those Victorians go? It’s truly amazing that Victoria can support all those amazing AFL teams with such a dwindling population. Maybe all those Victorians have disappeared to America to be punters in the NFL.
February 2nd 2012 @ 11:04pm
Queensland's game is rugby league said | February 2nd 2012 @ 11:04pm | Report comment
“Further, Victoria, despite being completely AFL mad, has the greatest sporting diversity of any city, in terms of the number of professional teams that call it home. It’s also the home of tennis, racing, motorsport et al. And has produced champions ”
Queensland and NSW had professional sporting teams in rugby league, Aussie rules, rugby union and soccer in 1996. Victoria didn’t have professional sporting teams in all four codes until 2011.
Queensland and NSW played Aussie rules before rugby league existed.
Soccer is far more popular at the grass roots level in Queensland and NSW than it is in the southern states.
Queensland didn’t even have a professional men’s ATP event until a few years ago, yet it produced the 1997 and 1998 US Open champion and 2000 and 2001 Wimbledon Finalist, Pat Rafter. Victoria has Kooyong and the Australian Open, yet it hasn’t produced a quality tennis player in decades.
Most of Australia’s olympic champions are Queenslanders.
New South Welshmen have been the nucleus of the national cricket side for decades.
So I think it’s wrong to say that Victoria is Australia’s most diverse sportign market. I think that title belongs to Queensland and NSW.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:24pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
We’re actually getting alright in a few other sports Australian Rules
But the reason Australia has so much diversity in its talent is the fact that you don’t have just one (probably not one true one at all actually) unifying code…you have a canon of sports which more or less gives you the impression of a universal church. Not even cricket is that anymore ergo there’s no NewsCorp effect as I’ll dub it
Just read JVGO’s next comment. I pretty much second that. It’s not really a true monoculture like NZ was say in the 1950s
But it gives off a number of the signs of it, like a media which is 1950s style protectionist… 
February 1st 2012 @ 4:02pm
Jaceman said | February 1st 2012 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
JVGO
Ryan Harris by my calculations was playing cricket in SA from age 20 or perhaps earlier so I think that qualifies as a Crow eater..Note I am using the loose/flexible NRL State of Origin rules to class him as South Aussie
” A stocky, skiddy bowler who is surprisingly fast, Harris spent nearly a decade as a fringe player with South Australia. He made great strides in 2006-07 and 2007-08, and it was surprising that the Redbacks didn’t try harder to stop him moving to Queensland. He joined Sussex on his British passport in 2008, playing one game before the English county realised he had signed with Queensland as a local. In his first season for the Bulls he delivered with the ball, finishing with 33 victims at 26.48, and Australian honours weren’t far away”
Watson would have been in the Test team if not injured so you cant pick one test as an example. Again using NRL SOO eleigibility rules, he could be Tassie, Qld or NSW…
February 2nd 2012 @ 4:31am
JVGO said | February 2nd 2012 @ 4:31am | Report comment
I can see this is another equation Sheedy might be interested in Jaceman. How to turn NSWmen in South Australians. If the AFL can master this equation too Jaceman they will be able to turn NSWmen into Victorians and Tasmanians as well. Imagine the possibilities.
February 1st 2012 @ 9:29am
Ian Whitchurch said | February 1st 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
I dont think JVGO understands the concept of “national draft”
February 1st 2012 @ 11:43am
JVGO said | February 1st 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
It looks to me that the term ‘national’ is a bit like ‘international’ without the the ‘inter’ thing in front of it IW. Is that right? Anyway from what I can guess ‘national draft’ probably has something to do with the AFL. While ‘international’ probably has more relevance to what goes on in Sydney.
February 1st 2012 @ 3:08pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
JVGO,
What it means is that a Victorian AFL side can consist of WA and SA players. To go back in time, you do know why the Swans are called the Swans, rather than the Bloods, right ?
February 2nd 2012 @ 4:10am
JVGO said | February 2nd 2012 @ 4:10am | Report comment
For what purpose do they do that? To make money?
February 3rd 2012 @ 3:54pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 3rd 2012 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
South Melbourne picked up the nickname ‘the Swans’ from a journalist because about half of their early 1930s side was made up fo Western Australians, and the term stuck.
February 3rd 2012 @ 4:24pm
Jaceman said | February 3rd 2012 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
Looking at the current Test team as representative of State input is like looking 5 years ago at Australians top mens tennis player who came from SA>>>>
February 1st 2012 @ 3:26pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
what about the test team numb nuts.
February 1st 2012 @ 6:40pm
piesman2011 said | February 1st 2012 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
JVGO,
Do you understand the term statistically significant. One game of Test cricket is not statistically significant and therefore can not be used to prove or disprove your theory. What you need to do is look at the last 100 Australian tests, which would be much more statistically significant. Learn a little more about statistics before trying to use them in an argument.
February 2nd 2012 @ 3:54am
JVGO said | February 2nd 2012 @ 3:54am | Report comment
Do you understand the term satire Piesman? In fact you sound exactly like the thing being satirised. Funny that.
February 3rd 2012 @ 4:51pm
piesman2011 said | February 3rd 2012 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
JVGO,
I was the one ridiculing you. I guess with your response it worked. You see the difference between your comments and my comments were that yours were foolish (1 game used as statistically evidence) and therefore open to satire. Mine were not (being accurate).
February 3rd 2012 @ 5:28pm
JVGO said | February 3rd 2012 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
I’m afraid satire and ridicule are different things, Piesman. But to take something satirical at face value is in fact ridiculous.
February 3rd 2012 @ 9:12pm
piesman2011 said | February 3rd 2012 @ 9:12pm | Report comment
JVGO (sorry if this is not in the right spot this site wont let me add this under your last post)
I dont think you understand the term satire. To go on a rant about something is not satire and from what I have seen of your work it is a continual rant about AFL taking away talent from sport. maybe you are not serious which means you are a troll, but this is not satire Satire is the mocking of something foolish. For example the mocking of your bad stats (see my original post about 4 up). To use bad stats to mock something else leaves you open to satire and is not an example of satire, due to your foolishness in the use of said stats.
When you say satire is not ridicule you are wrong. Satire is a form of ridicule and therefore is ridicule. Or at least ridicule of a folly is one form of satire.
Satire :the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire
February 4th 2012 @ 1:55am
JVGO said | February 4th 2012 @ 1:55am | Report comment
I’m afraid that definition doesn’t say that satire and ridicule are the same thing Piesman, you should read it again maybe.
February 4th 2012 @ 11:58am
piesman2011 said | February 4th 2012 @ 11:58am | Report comment
JVGO,
Delude yourself all you want by saying otherwise, but satire is a form of ridicule or mockery (again ridicule). I assume your a RL fan and that you have gotten your recent understanding of satire from the daily telegraph. Even if you are using satire to mock or ridicule AFL or their supporters (I dont believe that what you are using is satire, it just seams like an angry poorly informed rant to me). It is my prerogative if I want to respond to your attempt at satire. To say to take something satirical at face value is in fact ridiculous, is ridiculous. Because satire is a form of insult it deserves a response, if it is facturally incorrect. Anyway I will leave it at that, good luck with your future rants.
February 5th 2012 @ 12:31pm
JVGO said | February 5th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Wow Piesman, everyone gets so upset. And I wasn’t even going to comment on this thread but I didn’t want to let Tony down. he was so looking forward to me commenting.
By the way what was your explanation why NSW has 7 in the cricket team and Victoria 1? Somehow in all that it wasn’t quite clear.
February 9th 2012 @ 10:04pm
piesman2011 said | February 9th 2012 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
NSW having 7 players and VIC having 1 player in 1 test match in my opinion without doing the statistics would probabaly just be an outlier on what would normally be a much more balanced (population wise) team. Like I said if you did the statistics over 100 test matchs this would give you a much better indication of the NSW compared to VIC representation. Im not saying your theory isnt correct, what I am saying is that looking at one test match is not the way to do it.
January 31st 2012 @ 11:11am
db swannie said | January 31st 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Well …
Two body types..
What bull.Can you please elaborate on what these two body types are?.
Because im sure i can give you countless examples of players who fall outside them.
Then this gem..One of the great contradictions in OZ sport.
These boys generally are larger and have greater muscle mass at an earlier age, which makes it harder to compete in a sport where speed and endurance count less than brute power and strength.
So the AFL are giving the poor little white kids an option of playing a sport where they dont have to risk getting hurt by the bigger poly kids.
Then they spend Millions buying a Poly RL player to attract them to the game…
January 31st 2012 @ 11:51am
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 11:51am | Report comment
I agree db – it’s a massive contradiction.
In fairness, this claim about Sydney families showing concern for their kids coming up against big brutes is one I read on sites like the Roar, and generally made by League fans – you won’t hear Southern aussie rules fans pushing that line because we have no idea about what’s going on in local Sydney sports.
If we were to look at the AFL’s actions over the past 2 or 3 years, with more and more AFL endorsed competitions between the Pacific Islands, and the recruitment of Izzy and KH, you’d have to conclude that in fact the AFL is making a big push to get more Islanders playing the Australian game.
When you look at Izzy’s current physique, and also at NicNat (who towers over him), then clearly people of Pacific Island origin can play most sports they put their minds to. By the same token, it’s impossible to ignore the success that Islanders have had in the rugby codes, from such a tiny population base – so there must be some basis in the view that they are ideally equipped to play the rugby codes.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:37pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
The sooner we stop using the eco-system argument the better. Where those who don’t fit in one ought to adapt to another. The value of the four footy codes has never been about everyone being able to play…esp not the sport they’ve always wanted to. It’s much more something of a leftover from the epoch in Australasian history when not one code could gain predominance. If you apply the reverse case of baseball in America that would mean not any single Australian WILL EVER be associated with EVERY OTHER Australia through one code…but rather you have a canon which makes up the broad church as it were.
Basically Australian Football doesn’t stand for a way out of playing the brutes as you put it, tho unfortunately it has this percpetion…rather it stands for the Southern culture(s) of Australia, so you play it if that’s what you identify with. Thirty years ago most people would have said this, it’s just the last thirty which has mixed everything up. But while there is a seachange in perception those of us who like watching all four will get the red carpet so-to-speak rolled out for them.
January 31st 2012 @ 1:37pm
Fitzy said | January 31st 2012 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Did you actually read the article, yes it was a generalised comment on the body sizes of boys with islander heritage, but that was in reference to recruitment into NRL and RU, Im yet to see the body types like Lewis Jetta or Stephen Milne or even Aaron Sandilands, correct me if Im wrong(which I don’t doubt you would). My article was throwing up possible reasons, not the reason. The main thrust was boys from who have chosen to chase a career in AFL rather than the game of their fathers. Having played RL and RU I can tell you that having a bigger body muscle mass is a definite advantage. Looking at RL rookies there are a lot of big boys and not so many whippets. Just an observation thats all not an attack on the white anglo saxon male.
February 1st 2012 @ 3:39pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Must be dead boring on the league board, eh db. too much 5 stop, kick, 5 stop, kick. lol
January 31st 2012 @ 11:35am
Jay said | January 31st 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
I suppose the situation would be similar for RL (and RU to a lesser extent) player from the southern states.
The storm should field their first victorian born and bred player this year, and there was an article a little while ago about a form Demon’s player’s son adopting RL.
AFL as an organisation are more entrentched in NSW and QLD and to their credit, they have spent more money in promoting their game there. There are more schools playing organised AFL competitions and the ‘gay’ FL tag isnt used as often as it previously was.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:50pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
I’d say they are more entrenched not because of many of the reasons mentioned above, but because Australians have always wanted to be citizens of a federation, while maintaining their rights as citizens within a particular state with its own identity. Maybe it was only as an afterthought because Cricket was always the nationally-unifying code! The way to do this was once to support the same national code (the one which you inherited from the English) but now you/the other codes/the many competing sporting cultures want to actually fight for it…but the underlying phantom of a ‘universal church’ is still lurking around, making Australian Football quite appealing to this type of people. I’m not sure it’s exactly Southern Culture wannabe-ing, but then again maybe it is!
January 31st 2012 @ 12:31pm
aaron said | January 31st 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
I’ve been pro-stealing other players but a friend changed my mind the other day with this:
If an athlete from another sport – rugby, basketball, soccer, baseball, whatever – can play a handful of muckaround matches and still make it to AFL level, what are we really saying about the quality of our game?
I’m starting to realise it makes us look like a bit of a joke.
January 31st 2012 @ 1:55pm
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
What about the four or five retired aussie rules players who transitioned to American Football at the age of 32 years of age? Does that say anything about American Football? Does it say anything about Australian Football?
An alternative view is that we chase the very, very best athletes (not just any mug off the streets). The older they are, the harder it will be for them, naturally, but if they are top notch athletes, they can overcome such disadvantages – but note: a lot of effort and resources goes into bringing such players up to even a minimum standard, in a team game with 22 players.
Karmichael Hunt at the age of 24 is an extreme example of this. He’s yet to be considered a true footballer, to be honest, he might yet, but I note that no one ever makes a comment about him gettting off a plane direclty from Australia, and turning out for Biarritz in rugby, and doing very, very well from day one.
How many have succeeded? I think three have made it to 100 games in 30 years of experimenting (out of 100s who have tried out), and all three came as 17 year olds and had to put in 3 years of specialist training before they debuted, and all three were superb athletes. Jimmy Stynes was a champion school boy Gaelic footballer and a junior distance runner champion, and I think Kenneally was a middle distance runner.
Since when did athleticism become a dirty word?
What do people have to say about the huge percentage of Pacific Islanders playing elite rugby and league, out of a tiny, tiny population?
At the end of the day, people who come up with these sorts of theories are sitting on their fatasses doing nothing – they’re not out there trying to break into any elite form of sport, they’re not in a hurry to put their name in the draft, they’re not getting themselves tested at a combine – so what personal experience do they have on the subject?
January 31st 2012 @ 2:11pm
Jaceman said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Just target basketballers not rugby types which I assume why they have recruited Brogan and the U18 Aussie basketabller (last pick in the draft) and call themselves the Giants…
January 31st 2012 @ 2:28pm
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
True – if the Giants were to put some energy into signing a few giant basketballers, that would represent a nice counterpoint.
A few famous footballers combined footy and basketball (Scott Pendlebury, Terry Wallace, etc) and such players have stated that Basketball is in fact the sport that offers the most cross-over potential in assisting in preparing footballers, in terms of that one touch, giving and receiving in tight spaces, 360 degree aspects, and protecting the drop zone when the ball is in the air.
It was recently that I discovered that Karmichael Hunt was a keen basketballer, and it’s actually his favourite sport, and that helps explain a few things. His handling of the ball below the shoulders is very good, he picks up the ball cleanly in tight spaces, and he understands the concept of shadowing an opposition player, and making it difficult for him to get both hands to the ball – compare that with Izzy, who had no instinct for that side of the game at all.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:22pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Cattery,
Two of GWS’s ruckmen – Brogan and Downie – come from basketball backgrounds.
January 31st 2012 @ 9:22pm
Maggie said | January 31st 2012 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
And the Sydney Swans have just signed a 22 y.o. US college basketballer after testing showed he had the athletic potential to make the switch to the AFL. He is under the AFL’s International Scholarship Scheme, which will allow him to both train with the Swans and complete his four year degree. Apparently he is 196cms and 93 kilograms and is described as “an amazing athlete with great speed, great hands”. Sounds good for AFL.
January 31st 2012 @ 9:32pm
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 9:32pm | Report comment
Not before time – precisely the sort of bloke AFL clubs should start looking out for. It’s preferable that we find them younger than 22, but beggars can’t be choosers.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:28pm
Jaceman said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Risky business as Essendon found out with their US college player..
February 3rd 2012 @ 4:34pm
The Cattery said | February 3rd 2012 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
Jaceman
It is risky – it must be. It’s why it doesn’t happen often – you’d need a hit rate of 1 in 3 or better, which is very difficult to achieve.
January 31st 2012 @ 2:30pm
Jay said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
re the NFL – AFL players go over there as punters.
The hierarchy of a NFL team is, jokingly, Coach > Quaterback > Rest of Players > Cheerleaders > Punter
January 31st 2012 @ 2:37pm
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Jay
doesn’t matter – my point is that you can’t draw a conclusion about a sport as a whole just because one player is able to fill one specialist role in a large team, and in any event, to retire at age 32 and start pulling million dollar pay cheques, well, are you going to say no to that if offered to you? Or would you see it as beneath you?
With the average wage in Australia around $50k per annum, if anyone thinks it’s easy to become an AFL foootballer, you only need to put your name in the draft and you too could be earning $300+k per annum.
At the end of the day, if people think something is easy, get off your fatass and go and do it.
January 31st 2012 @ 6:17pm
Dingo said | January 31st 2012 @ 6:17pm | Report comment
The cheerleaders are incredibly talented, I have studied their craft very closely for countless hours and I am very impressed with what I see.
In fact I think I’ll go and study some more, right now.
February 1st 2012 @ 9:34am
Ian Whitchurch said | February 1st 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Update your thinking. Kluwe at Minnesota is at $5m a year, while Moorman of Buffalo is in year 5 of 3 years/$10m.
The status of punters is going up …
January 31st 2012 @ 2:34pm
cman said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
AFL players in the NFL only come on to kick the ball then go off.
January 31st 2012 @ 2:38pm
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
As I just said to Jay, doesn’t matter, the point is you can’t draw a conclusion about a sport just because of one specialist role – and in any event – wouldn’t we love to have that million dollar pay check at age 32+ – then what are we waiting for?
February 1st 2012 @ 1:03pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Why are punters seen as so valuable? It defies belief a bit. In fact the more I’ve learned about American Football the more I think good punters could improve that area in the game, which has been lagging (esp since they liberalised passing laws, which is a very dirty word
) behind other areas. But why are they paid so much for being so un-valuable…they may be getting paid for future services, I don’t know
February 1st 2012 @ 1:17pm
JVGO said | February 1st 2012 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
The Raiders exploited the fake punt several times this season for crucial yards.
February 1st 2012 @ 1:23pm
Nathan of Perth said | February 1st 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Well, there is arguably something of a revolution on the way with Brad Wing of LSU. Weaponised punting, they call it
February 1st 2012 @ 3:32pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
Point taken
But that’s not really something Australian Football prepares you for. Yes they’re there to punt really well (not just far, but hang-timing/strategic touch-finders/touchback-constraining etc). But Australian Football is about forward-logic in it’s kicking not back-logic…Rugby players would be better, you’d think…unless all they want is the cut and paste punter. Perhaps someone who comes from a game which is so different from American Football as not mess with punters’ minds…tricking them into thinking they can have more sway over the game etc 
January 31st 2012 @ 3:03pm
Nathan of Perth said | January 31st 2012 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
And periodically murder the punt returner
January 31st 2012 @ 5:41pm
Australian Rules said | January 31st 2012 @ 5:41pm | Report comment
I see Aaron’s point but have to agree with Cattery here.
98% of League or Rugby players could not play AFL…only the absolute top athletic types. Izzy is a classic example, while the other 2 regularly mentioned that might be able to make it are Slater and Inglis. K was slightly different, having played AFL as a junior, but still an elite League player (with Qld and Aust).
It says more about the individual’s athletic ability and determination, than it does about the sport as a whole.
It’s like saying that because Scott Draper turned pro golfer (a fairly limited one) after his tennis career, than tennis must be an easy sport. Nor does Keith Miller’s 50 odd games for St Kilda make Aussie Rules a crap sport, he was just that good he played Test cricket as well.
Important to also keep in mind that Aust Rules was created form the influences of many other sports (Soccer, Rugby, Gaelic) so it compliments a broader skill set and different body types. A whippet and a brick sh*thouse can both play different positions in Aust Rules, so that also broadens the net in terms of who may be able to succeed in the game
January 31st 2012 @ 8:24pm
betamax said | January 31st 2012 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
Interesting Australian Rules. I remember reading at the time that Izzy was “auditioned” by the GWS staff for 1 hour before they decided he could cut the mustard at the elite level of AR. 1 hour! Apparently he’d never touched a Sherrin in his life, but they could summarize in an hour that he had a future.
I would suggest there could be more than 98% that could cross over if a potential player can be defined instantly, seemingly.
Or have I got it wrong and Izzy was some kind of diamond in the rough, waiting to be fashioned into a player by AFL hands? It was handy for the AFL that he just happened to be of Poly origin and trailing for GWS.
February 1st 2012 @ 8:30am
The Cattery said | February 1st 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
betamax
Izzy is 195cm tall and had already earned renown for his aerial skills – how many League players are 195 cm tall? I bet I could count them on one hand. Have you had a look at Izzy’s current physique? We’re not talking about pulling names out of a hat.
February 1st 2012 @ 8:03pm
betamax said | February 1st 2012 @ 8:03pm | Report comment
You see TC this is what winds up us RL supporters, or me at least more than anything. Trying to characterize the KH/Izzy thing as anything other than a shameless publicity stunt is doing you guys no favours.
February 1st 2012 @ 9:09am
The Cattery said | February 1st 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Out of curiosity, I thought I’d check out the dimensions of Jamal Idris, one of the taller league players, and someone who I would love to see in a guernsey, and he’s actually only 194cm, which sort of goes to show – blokes of Izzy’s physique aren’t growing on trees – I’ll tell you that much.
February 1st 2012 @ 8:12pm
betamax said | February 1st 2012 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Why didn’t the AFL go after Paul Sironen back in the day? He seems to fit the (seemingly discriminatory) body type agenda. Or Dane Tilse these days? I would suggest that the guys I have mentioned didn’t fit the carefully constructed agenda(read ethnic background) the AFL were after to promote their new franchises.
February 3rd 2012 @ 4:31pm
The Cattery said | February 3rd 2012 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
betamax
Coincidentally, I just wrote this on another thread to Republican:
John Nicholls (Big Nick), premiership captain-coach with Carlton, early 70s, famous ruckman, yet he was only 189 cm, the exact same height as Chris Judd, an elite midfielder today with the same club.
Ted Whitten was a key position player, and a few centremetres shorter.
These days your ruckmen are generally 12+ cm taller than Big Nick, and your key position players are at leat 8 cm taller than Whitten, and they are expected to be more athletic, more agile, faster, etc, etc.
That’s the new standard – but finding these blokes ain’t easy.
Remember what the Qld recruiting officer said to Zac Smith’s dad: there are only a few 17 year olds in all of Australia who are 200cm tall AND can pick up the ball below their knees.
By necessity – we have to look for them elsewhere – we really do need them. Now that we are at 18 teams – we are absolutely desperate for them – more than ever before.
February 3rd 2012 @ 10:05pm
stabpass said | February 3rd 2012 @ 10:05pm | Report comment
Dont think Jamal has the body shape Australian football is looking for ! .
https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-know-how-to-defend-LOL-jk-Im-Jamal-Idris/120304111343156?sk=wall&filter=12#!/media/set/?set=a.148493085190925.26299.120304111343156&type=1
February 1st 2012 @ 1:08pm
Jaredsbro said | February 1st 2012 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Finally one of you guys has admitted it. For a while youse were sticking to the Redb line of reasoning that because it was codified here it must have sprung up spontaneously
But it is funny how the tall ones have been allowed to Football Association the other aspects that they don’t agree with 
February 1st 2012 @ 3:44pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
What are you talking about? Maybe the ‘rubgy’ threads would be of more interest Jaredsbro, just guessing. I’m sure you’ll find like minded folk.
February 1st 2012 @ 3:58pm
pot stirer said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Ive seen u in the leauge threads on more than ome occasion Redb!!
January 31st 2012 @ 7:47pm
Redb said | January 31st 2012 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
So K Hunt just walked in and starred did he Arron. lol
January 31st 2012 @ 11:02pm
aaron said | January 31st 2012 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
Into an AFL contract, I guess so.
I bet there are dozens of players, maybe hundreds?, who grew up playing rules, who have trained since childhood who are probably better than Folau, Hunt, Pike etc will ever be and are already at that level and could get a start today.
To give some other sport’s athlete a million dollars just to be a billboard kind of makes Demetriou look gimmicky.
I mean I don’t know much about rugby but a couple of mates who go for Qld have told me that Hunt was a bit despised as being overrated. He’s got a nasty nickname which is pretty obvious what it is. They told me that we could have him.
February 1st 2012 @ 8:32am
The Cattery said | February 1st 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Hunt achieved everything in League, was a success at rugby in France (immediately), and has now played a handful of games at AFL level – that’s an extraordinary achievement – not sure why people would see the need to have a go at him personally – he doesn’t owe anyone anything.
February 1st 2012 @ 9:59am
Tiger said | February 1st 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
He certainly didn’t achieve everything in rugby league! He had achieved quite a lot in a short time though, but certainly not everything!
February 1st 2012 @ 10:01am
The Cattery said | February 1st 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Tiger – you are a better judge than I on that point – but he still doesn’t deserve to be diminished as many leaguies try to do – his achievement in playing three codes of football at an elite level inside 18 months are unparalleled, and may never be equalled again.
February 1st 2012 @ 3:27pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
Who cares what he achieved in rugby league.
February 1st 2012 @ 12:36pm
Jaceman said | February 1st 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Speaking of gimmicks, its hard to go past the NRL Western Reds signing retired AFL WCE player Adrian Barich who had never played NRL nor auditioned for the role. Or Jeff Fenech playing reserves for Parrammata Eels, Or manfred Moore NFL player playing Newtown first grade for a short time or Darren Clark 400m runner playing Balmain firsts (Sean Fagan says it was a trial but I saw it on live TV) or drug banned Sprinter Dwight? Chambers playing ESL in UK or that Victorian 100m sprinter whose name escapes me (banned form Amateur AFL) playing for Victoria Sevens NRL team in mid 90s with retired Swans Leon Higgins. I could go on…
February 1st 2012 @ 1:27pm
Nathan of Perth said | February 1st 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
“its hard to go past the NRL Western Reds signing retired AFL WCE player Adrian Barich”
You know, in retrospect, that may explain some of the actions of GC/GWS.
February 1st 2012 @ 8:22pm
betamax said | February 1st 2012 @ 8:22pm | Report comment
“Speaking of gimmicks, its hard to go past the NRL Western Reds signing retired AFL WCE player Adrian Barich who had never played NRL nor auditioned for the role.”
So Jaceman, are you somehow equating the signing of a guy who played a hand full of games for WCE and had a crack at RL without making A Grade, with the hulking media juggernaut that is the KH/Izzy sideshow? Really? Or the other guys you mentioned(jeff fenech-spare me) as being in the same shameless marketing tool universe? Are you honestly saying that?
February 1st 2012 @ 8:57pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 1st 2012 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
Betamax,
Signing Hunt and Folau had three purposes.
The first one was to get a whole lot of publicity for the two new teams. It did that.
The second one was the off chance they’d become very good AFL players. Hunt was OK for a first year, and Folau has done enough in the reserves last year to be the first-pick Giants full forward.
The third one was to see rugby league have an attack of dumb and match the contracts, thus kicking off another cycle of elite payment inflation. Given that Canberra and Cronulla at least cant pay to the existing cap, let alone beyond it, this would have crippled several clubs on the field, or driven them into insolvency if they tried to match what the elite now earn.
Basically, it was all win for Andrew Demetriou.
February 1st 2012 @ 9:43pm
betamax said | February 1st 2012 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
And a final and crucial point Ian, to create a wedge between the RL supporters, other code supporters(and cricket) and the AFL and ruin any goodwill between the codes. AD misjudged the sentiment in his grab for headlines.
February 2nd 2012 @ 7:19am
Ian Whitchurch said | February 2nd 2012 @ 7:19am | Report comment
Betamax,
Rugby league code warriors would have found enough reason to hate the AFL for just putting a team into Western Sydney and challenging rugby league heartland.
February 2nd 2012 @ 8:05am
Redb said | February 2nd 2012 @ 8:05am | Report comment
Betamax,
The wedge was well and truly already there becuase the AFL dared to place a 2nd team in Sydney.The Hunt signing didnt happen until July 2009, see my article from May 2009. http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/05/05/afl-western-sydney-vietnam-gallipoli-or-kokoda-take-your-pick/
The natives led by Masters and the Daily Telegraph were well on their way.
In fact there has always been a siege mentality from RL fans towards AFL, the Swans winning in 2005, getting big crowds and plenty of press coverage really upset you lot.
The Hunt & Folau signings nice little torpedos into the RL ship and a sign from the AFL that there is no point trying to win over the diehard RL fan, but there are plenty of others who will take an interest.
The Daily Telegraph owned of course by the same organisation as the NRL (50%) has been in over drive against the AFL for 4-5 years now.
February 3rd 2012 @ 4:21pm
Jaceman said | February 3rd 2012 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
No some people called it a gimmick but as Ian outlines below it is a good tactic on 3 fronts. I’m just saying that NRL has a greater history of gimmicks eg heres some more – Sydney RL playing a US RL side made up of US college gridiron players in the mid 50s or Australia vrs South Africa in RL in 1965 when there was no RL played in SA. Barich played quite a few gamnes for WCE and WAS RETIRED and did not undergo any trial before signing. Why should I spare you Jeff Fenech. When Bob Lay , chamption sprinter in the 60s, decided to play Rugby had to work his way up the grades at Randwick. Fenech turned up at Parra and was put in second grade immediately. He had no RL pedigree of any note…THe AFL have done NSWRL a favour by taking away 2 Qld SOO players…
February 1st 2012 @ 3:41pm
Redb said | February 1st 2012 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
aaron,
Offering a contract and making at AFL level are two different things.
February 2nd 2012 @ 8:28am
Ian Whitchurch said | February 2nd 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Aaron,
You’re wrong. All of the players you listed are rare talents.
Look around the fifty seconds to one minute mark at this youtube clip – GWS versus Brisbane Lions Reserves
Folau is close marked, reads the play, leads into space, picks up the palmed-out ball, kicks across his body with a step on his direct opponent and goals.
Here is some tape of Mike Pyke against Carlton in an elimination final, deep in the last quarter.
Roves the ball, gives a dont-argue to a would be tackler, sees the open player, who runs into an open goal and misses.
Then, to back that up, gathers a loose ball, turns out of range of a player, looks, stutter steps to make a tackler miss, then puts the ball perfectly into the hot spot at center half forward.
Regrettably, he’s stuck behind Mumford, and the Swans dont run two ruckmen.
Hunt has the body, but not the tank, to play as an inside midfielders. Here is some tape of his coach analysing his performance in the reserves, where he got 25 touches.
January 31st 2012 @ 7:06pm
TW said | January 31st 2012 @ 7:06pm | Report comment
Fitzy,
Good article from a Sydneysider who put up with the banter – Good natured or not and continued playing. This forum needs more like you – Locals who know the realities at the grassroots level in Sydney.
Also the NSW Scholarship Scheme now defunct -Replaced by the Aacademy Model for the Swans and GWS -It gives those clubs first looks at the locals -great idea.
Off topic but interesting -
Cricket Australia and Tennis Australia have recently both now rejected the AFL type Commission to run their sports – They both had a look at the successful AFL set up and said no – Go figure. The NRL is slowly getting there with their version.
January 31st 2012 @ 11:28pm
The Cattery said | January 31st 2012 @ 11:28pm | Report comment
TW
might be a matter of different circumstances, horses for courses, etc.
E.g. the AFL commission concept was predicated on clubs relinquishing a direct day-to-day management role for what is essentially a domestic game, but with Tennis, is it a comparable situation? I imagine with Cricket you probably have a situation where the bigger states don’t want to give up their power base (just taking a punt, not sure).