Listen to the fans and allow Central Coast Bears in
By Beowulf, 17 Feb 2012 Beowulf is a Roar Rookie
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- Central Coast Bears, independent commission, NRL, NRL expansion, NRL Independent Commission, Rugby League
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So who runs the game, anyway? David Gallop constantly says it’s the fans. That being the case, the fans have spoken.
Overwhelmingly, in any expansion poll of reputable sample size carried out over the past three years, the Central Coast Bears have won, usually with daylight second. Following daylight, Perth or Central Queensland trail.
And right at the bottom of the list, often behind Dubbo and Mars, come Brisbane and Ipswich.
Few want a Queensland side other than David Gyngell. In fact, Queensland poll participants are generally the highest voters in favour of adding the Bears due to the Queensland connection with the Bears in the ’80s and ’90s, when ironically we were one of the most watched teams on TV.
Channel Nine has reduced the quality and commentary of rugby league coverage in Australia to rock bottom and they get to decide on expansion? The game can now call the shots and prove that fans are important, not self-interested clubs or networks. Today’s news that Channel 10 is going to bid hard for all eight games/per week (soon to be nine) is a breath of fresh air.
It will allow the Independent Commission to dictate terms to the networks. Once bids reach a tipping point of $900,000, the gap between the salary cap and grants can be closed, ensuring existing clubs can be looked after and funds set aside for junior/regional development. At this point, like AFL, the game itself can decide where it wants to expand to, not the networks.
The first bid that must be accepted is the Central Coast Bears, as the opportunity cost of excluding them is higher than with other bids. If the Central Coast does not receive a license in 2012, the bid will shut down and the Central Coast’s chances of ever getting a team will be gone forever.
The Coast is not large enough to sustain a team on its own due to a lack of heavy industry/commercial headquarters, hence needs to link either north or south for corporate opportunities. North is Newcastle, south is the north shore, where the game is withering due to the lack of the Bears.
Since exclusion, three junior teams have folded in northern Sydney and only through the hard work of the Bears has a team been reformed this year (Lane Cove Tigers).
The nearest NRL team, Manly, for historical reasons is unable to connect with the north shore and following the Northern Eagles debacle, the Central Coast.
Any start up team or relocated team on the Coast will not connect with the north shore and will be therefore unsustainable, hence it’s now or never for the Coast.
The bid team will present to the IC evidence they can increase free-to-air and pay-TV viewership, which should negate any claims that they do not add media rights value. Other advantages for the bid include:
• Minimal away travel costs for Sydney teams.
• Engagement in two enormous derbies – Newcastle and Manly, which will boost attendance profits for all three clubs and provide a primary marketing tool to leverage merchandise/membership sales from every year. Benefits also accrue to other Sydney teams, though obviously in proportion to distance.
• Instant profit centre – low start up costs as the experience and infrastructure to run an NRL team is already in place as is the fan base, with 7704 financial memberships and research indicating there will be full or near capacity crowds at Bluetongue every match. Any new start up will face precisely the struggles the Titans are facing now.
• Opportunity to engage with the third largest corporate region in Australia that doesn’t have a locally based national sporting team, and close to one million people that don’t have a locally based national sporting team.
• Partly owned by the stadium they will play in.
• Increased interest in the game. Many non-RL people will show interest in a team based at Bluetongue representing their regional community. Fans of existing teams will happily go to the ground and cheer for their team when playing.
The kids are already Bears fans through the Bears’ efforts – they have no past prejudices. North shore residents simply abandoned the game when the Bears were turfed and follow AFL and Union. Only the Bears will bring them back.
The bid team is mindful they need to prove they will not harm existing teams, and their ownership and sponsorship profile indicates this has already been achieved, without a license.
I would like to see four teams be given licenses, staggered over two entry dates. Central Coast and either Pert or South-East Queensland for 2015, (or both if an existing team is relocated to one of these venues), and the loser plus Central QLD granted provisional licenses (subject to them fulfilling criteria such as stadium/membership criteria) for inclusion in 2020. Should relocation occur, Wellington could enter with Central Queensland in 2020.
Some of the bid teams have spent enormous sums of money in garnering corporate and community support. Volunteers from the Bears, for example, have spent time away from family for many weekends over two years now.
Denied passion leads to bitterness.
To be ignored will ensure these bids will disappear along with many fans and sponsors and the game will not be able to grow.
Photo via Central Coast Bears website.
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February 17th 2012 @ 11:00am
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Typically, the Daily Telegraph haven’t posted the latest poll results. Just before close last night with the question ‘Which team will be added next’ the results were:
Central Coast 53.76% (909 votes), 2).Rockhampton 26.32% (445 votes), 3).Perth 13.84% (234 votes). Both Brisbane bids were around the 30 votes, 2% mark.
if the question was ‘who SHOULD be added next’, I’m sure the Bears would have polled even higher.
yes, the internet polls have a fair degree of error as some allow multiple voting through different URL’s. But most people don’t have access to more than 1 or 2. I only voted once as I’m sure most did. The sample sizes of most of these polls, around 2-3,00 or more people, probably reduce degree of error to 5-6%.
The most significant poll was the RLW poll published above by Ourimbah Magpies. Of the CC Bears polling total, 55% came from QLD. in other words, there is undeniable widespread support from QLD for the Bears bid – at least the equal of Central QLD’s support and dwarfing either SEQ bids.
February 17th 2012 @ 11:08am
Renegade said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
The only poll out of all the above that would have been conducted on a fair basis would be the Players Poll…
February 17th 2012 @ 11:26am
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:26am | Report comment
So the players decide on expansion, not the fans?
February 17th 2012 @ 11:37am
Renegade said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:37am | Report comment
No, i’m not saying that mate.
The players poll would be the only one with any credibility in terms of how it was conducted, as in there would only be one vote per person.
We know the online polls can have multiple votes.
February 17th 2012 @ 12:26pm
Pete75 said | February 17th 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Anyone who trusts anything published by the Telegraph has rocks in their head.
February 17th 2012 @ 1:18pm
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
I agree there is a higher variance with online polls – can’t see it being 20-30% though. And if there was support for SEQ bids for example, why do they only ever get 20 or 30 votes, or 2%? its the same in every poll through every medium.
February 17th 2012 @ 9:26pm
Queensland's game is rugby league said | February 17th 2012 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
Because most Queenslanders don’t take online polls seriously. I’m all for another team in the greater Brisbane area, but Im not going to waste my time voting on a meaningless online poll.
February 17th 2012 @ 11:11am
Renegade said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
I personally believe the Central Coast should have it’s own team in the future but some of the reasons pushed forward above are just putrid….almost makes me wanna throw up.
It just doesn’t make commercial sense to have another team in NSW before expanding in Perth and further into QLD.
Bears fans you will be back one day, just not now….
February 17th 2012 @ 11:24am
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
No we won’t Renegade. Greg Florimo, if he hasn’t already, will be telling David Gallop to approve this bid or we shut down forever. Every year the Bears are denied, the game incrementally loses value in northern Sydney as the game loses more and more traction to AFL and Union. In 10-20 years, there’ll be no point to a Bears or CC team because the north shore will be lost forever, and the CC cannot sustain a team through lack of corporates.
There are 3 options – admit the Bears in 2015, if rejected then give them a provisional license for 2020 at the latest and if neither, shut down.
February 17th 2012 @ 11:41am
Renegade said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
“There are 3 options – admit the Bears in 2015, if rejected then give them a provisional license for 2020 at the latest and if neither, shut down.”
I would be happy with that (2020) although i still feel a sydney club would have to die….i guess we will have to wait and see.
February 17th 2012 @ 11:24am
Bigbaz said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
My memories of the Bears were that 3 men and a dog turned up at North Sydney to support them.They certainly didn’t have a supporter base out of Gosford. Now that they basically don’t exist all these CC people want to support them? Just like they supported the Northern Eagles!
February 17th 2012 @ 11:28am
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
10-15K average through the 90′s aint as bad as some. Which is why they moved to Gosford and built a stadium. At Gosford, they had 18K for year 1 Northern Eagles before the Manly takeover when fans left as they wanted the Bears, not Sea Eagles.
February 17th 2012 @ 11:44am
Renegade said | February 17th 2012 @ 11:44am | Report comment
Beowulf,
I have to pull you up here again….the eagles didn’t get 18k in their first year!
They averaged 15k from 7 games played at gosford in year 1.
Final year average from a total of 4 games played at gosford was 7k.
February 17th 2012 @ 1:20pm
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
You’re correct – I was looking at the first few games only and said whole year. Stand corrected.
Don’t think we can look at last year – by then everyone was trying to kill each other!
February 17th 2012 @ 9:29pm
Queensland's game is rugby league said | February 17th 2012 @ 9:29pm | Report comment
“Don’t think we can look at last year – by then everyone was trying to kill each other!”
Yet your mob always points at the Reds’ averages in 1997 as proof that they were a failure, even though the club drew good crowds in 1995..
February 17th 2012 @ 12:38pm
Pete75 said | February 17th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
I don’t think that you can deny that there is significant support for the Central Coast Bears across the rugby league community. Beowulf and others have made the point that RL is a game that thrives on tradition.
And therein lies the rub.
Think about it. Where do you reckon these polls are being conducted?
- The Daily Telegraph
- RLW
- Various League websites
Of those various publications, how many readers do you reckon are in Perth? Very few I’d suggest. The argument could well be made that the lack of readers/respondants in Perth indicates less interest. I disagree with that argument. Few would disagree that there are probably more “ready made” fans on the Central Coast, but few would also disagree that there is more growth potential in a city of 1.8 million than a region of 600,000. You’d need a far smaller fraction of the population supporting the team in Perth
If we assume that the polls are legitimate and representative, it’s also pretty safe to argue that there are a lot of non-Central Coast people, and a lot of non-Bears supporters who would be keen to see the Bears back in the competition for purely nostalgic reasons.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, there’s no future or growth potential in nostalgia.
DISCLOSURE – I have just moved to Perth from Sydney so, like Beowulf with the Bears, I have some personal interest in seeing a team established here.
February 17th 2012 @ 12:55pm
turbodewd said | February 17th 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
How will a poll counter AFL expansion into NRL territory? We already have 11 teams inside NSW! CCoast is closer to Manly than Penrith is.
Those polls are ridiculous. Anyone who thinks PNG is a viable expansion team has no idea about the real world.
February 17th 2012 @ 1:37pm
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Congratulations on learning how to fly like a crow. Please let us know how you manage to travel in a straight line over national parks, ravines and river systems. Takes the ordinary person 1.5hrs by car or 2hrs by public transport, meaning no one will go to a game. Why not shut down your Raiders? The Bears bring much more to the table and you’re only a few hours from Campelltown or illawarra….didn’t think so.
February 17th 2012 @ 2:50pm
The Truth Hurts said | February 17th 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
That lenght of travel doesn’t seem to affect Cowboys fans.
Any more excuses you can come up with?
February 17th 2012 @ 1:04pm
turbodewd said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
This is the most overrated NRL bid that Im aware of. Suddenly the Central Coast can lay claim to most of north Sydney. What. The. Fark?! So Sydney has 4.5million people and somehow the CCBears think they can claim 1 million of them?!
Blue Tongue stadium only holds 20,000 – barely NRL caliber im afraid.
The most accurate figure I can find for the entire central coast is 300,000.
The AFL must love how we are considering new teams in spots they couldnt care less about…what does that tell you?
Central Coast is basically another Sydney team and NSW is already full of 11 teams – we cant afford another!
February 17th 2012 @ 1:33pm
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
D Gallop likes it. 1 million in the catchment is correct. No one says they’re all going to be Bears fans, but only the Bear brand will bring people back from AFL and Union on the north shore, and bring in sponsors wanting only to support the Bear brand in Australia’s 3rd largest corporate area. Pretty simple.
February 17th 2012 @ 1:14pm
oikee said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
What the Commission has to do, sit down and twell Manly they have to play half their games out of Gosford stadium, and call themselves Northern Coast Bears.
Change the jersey’s to bears colours. If they refuse to do this, decommission them and bring in the central coast Bears, Manly to be desolved for not complying.
We got rid of the Bears, we can get rid of Manly.
And it would be a win/win, a few Manly fans would leave, good luck to them, and we would get all those Bears fans back, so hundreds of millions, comapred to a few thousands, go figure, it is a no brainer,.
February 17th 2012 @ 1:30pm
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
The current situation in northern Sydney & central coast is untenable, agree there.
February 17th 2012 @ 1:45pm
Beowulf said | February 17th 2012 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
The point of the article is this.
At the last TV negotiations D Gallop had to take whatever scraps Ch9 gave him. The paradigm has changed with the IC, News withdrawal and Ch10 bidding for the rights.
The IC now have the upper hand. If Ch9 don’t want the Bears and the IC do, the IC can say…’well Mr Gyngell, Ch10 are offering us 1.4b with no preconditions on expansion teams. You are offering us the same with conditions. See ya.’
I’ll say it again. Gyngell saying the CC won’t add to TV rights is incorrect – the IC will see for themselves when the bid is submitted and they can call Ch9′s bluff. IMO David Gyngell is too close to the Roosters Board to be objective. The Roosters and Manly have always had the most influence at Board level in the game, and they want to continue pulling the strings despite the IC creation. It’s about self-interest, same as the journos are looking after their sources (and therefore interests) at one or two clubs who don’t want the Bears.
February 17th 2012 @ 2:18pm
The Barry said | February 17th 2012 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Everyone keeps saying we NEED a team in Perth…for the life of me I can’t understand why. TV ratings and dollars ? Well Channel 9 show games in Melbourne at midnight, why would Perth be any different ? Surely COMMERCIAL networks aren’t stumping up that much cash for the rights to programs that air in the middle of the night ?
A live game in Sydney at 9.30. So what, we already have a recorded game that is as good as live on Friday nights and my understanding is that the second game isn’t massive in the ratings. And it would only be every second week. And only if Perth played every game on a Friday night. And is anyone pumped at the prospect to stay up to watch the might of Perth every second week ?
What have Melbourne actually added to the game ? Have there been ANY melbourne juniors even play first grade let alone Origin or Test level ? Why would Perth be different ? Crowd support in Melbourne is minimal despite them being the most “successful” club over the past decade. Have the Force been a rip-roaring success ?
The WARL and this Sage character are at loggerheads so are we going to have Sage running a Perth franchise without the support of the WARL. Does anyone else see that as a recipe for disaster ?
Who’s going to pay the cost of transporting an NRL squad, an U-20s squad, coaches, officials and supprt staff to get to Perth every second week. It’s a 5 hour flight each way.
The only benefit I can see is that these clubs offer a national looking comp. I actually believe we need to go to Perth eventually but have no idea how you could prioritise them over the Central Coast or a second SE Qld team.
Everyone says “but they already watch league in the CC, you won’t get any new TV markets”. I think the point is that in 20 years or so, will people on the CC going to watch NRL. The Mariners are huge on the coast. If the NRL had a side in Gosford does anyone really think the Mariners would be more than a passing interest ? The CC and Nth Sydney corridor is a huge area, with a big NRL population with no team.
Similarly if we let teams like the Eagles or the Sharks fold or re-locate we are giving up massive tracts of Sydney up to the other codes. Despite people whinging about the NSWRL, if league dies in Sydney, there is no NRL and you’ll be back to watching Redcliffe v Wynum-Manly. We can’t just surrender huge parts of Sydney to AFL, soccer and rugby. Manly and Sharks supporters won’t start supporting Wests and the Dragons if they have no team, they’ll walk away from the game, taking their kids with them. It’s happened before.
February 17th 2012 @ 2:27pm
The Cattery said | February 17th 2012 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
The Barry
Firstly, let me say that I support Beowulf’s aim to bring back the Bears, mainly because I like traditional clubs, which are so important for club competitions.
But to counter that, there is a commercial argument that introducing, for arguments sake, a team to Perth makes the comp more national, and that is more attracive to sponsors.
There is definitely plenty of truth to that argument – it’s just one of the things that the newly formed Commission will need to unravel.
February 17th 2012 @ 3:30pm
turbodewd said | February 17th 2012 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
Qld pop 4.5 million – 3 teams
NSW pop 7.2 million – 11 teams (12 teams if the Bears were admitted.)
NZ pop 4.4 million – 1 team (NZers are part of NRL culture, they should not be ignored)
WA pop 2.3 million – 0
Sorry, you cant put another NSW team before Qld, NZ or WA. Its just plain selfish and shortsighted.