Palmer’s frustration is with the FFA’s financing of football
Columnist By Tony Tannous, 21 Feb 2012 Tony Tannous is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- A-League, Archie Fraser, Clive Palmer, FFA, football
2,660 reads
Clive Palmer and his Gold Coast United club have been booted from the A-League AAP Image/John Pryke
Related coverage
There has been a rush to condemn Clive Palmer after his anti-football comments on the weekend, but stop for a second and you might just hear a man raising some valid concerns about the financing and governance of the round ball game in Australia.
They are essentially the words of a man frustrated by the continuing struggle of clubs to make ends meet. Even if his reign as owner of Gold Coast United has been a laughing stock for the most part, he has been closer than most to workings of Football Federation Australia.
He, as much as anyone, understands the financial constraints with which teams operate in the A-League.
It’s unlikely he’s the only one frustrated by the framework and support provided by the governing body.
Speak privately to any number of A-League club owners and you’re likely to get a similar take, perhaps not on the record, but certainly they’d be just as unhappy.
Often the silence tells a tale.
Palmer is not the type to keep quiet, and after a few years of bleeding, $18 million dollars by his reckonening, he has just about had enough.
Other owners mightn’t be so public, but few, if any, are looking at a favourable bottom line.
Recently Tony Sage has been spotted among some rugby league folk. Read into it what you will.
Among Palmer’s biggest gripes appears to be the current TV deal with Foxsports, a seven year, $120 million deal that was signed after the competition’s first season.
Break it down and it amounts to less than $18 million a season. Spilt that out among 10 clubs, at least nine national teams and the running of FFA headquarters and there isn’t much change left.
At the time, of course, the FFA couldn’t say no to that type of money, but there’s an argument the length of the deal has held back the growth of the game since the initial post-Crawford buzz.
I wrote more that 14 months ago that it would be in everyone’s interests if the FFA were able to re-negotiate a deal to have a slice of the A-League on free-to-air TV.
In it, I quoted former A-League head Archie Fraser;
“The competition needs to be promoted properly and there needs to be a renegotiating of the TV rights deal with Fox which allows a free to air component. While the contract isn’t up until 2013, deals are renegotiated all the time and if the FFA thought it could land a World Cup and only ended up with one vote, surely it can go out and tweak a deal which has left the code hidden from a great majority of the public.”
Alas, nothing has yet happened on that front and the game waits, bickering and bleeding, almost limping to the next broadcast deal, hoping it brings a prosperous future.
Follow Tony on Twitter @TonyTannousTRBA
Looking to join The Roar team? We're searching for an experienced Group Sales Manager to lead our team in Sydney. Yes, this does mean you get to work with the site all day long! If you're a digital media sales star, we want to hear from you. Apply now.
- Explore:
- A-League, Archie Fraser, Clive Palmer, FFA, football
February 21st 2012 @ 4:15am
Soccerbot3000 said | February 21st 2012 @ 4:15am | Report comment
It may that it is in the long term interests of soccer to be on FTA, but what possible reason does anyone have to believe that doing so would lead to improvements in the cash flow positions of clubs right now?
It strikes me that right now soccer in this county has a preponderance of people who are good at finding fault with things, but precious few with any practical solutions. Tony’s suggestions to renegotiate the deal might sound nice, but how on earth is that going to generate significant extra cash when the whole thing Fox is paying for is exclusivity?
February 22nd 2012 @ 2:13am
Squizz said | February 22nd 2012 @ 2:13am | Report comment
Fox should be retained to telecast live Australia wide. FTA can then be restricted so that they can’t broadcast live into the state where it is played.
If for example you follow Sydney and want to see every game on TV you would need Foxtel. If you only had free to air then the FTA broadcaster could show the Sydney FC away games live and the home games on a 2 hour delay. Each state would vary accordingly.
Fox gets exposure to a game that they hold exclusive live games to all matches. FFA are happier since they have FTA access. FTA gets content for the summer months. The owners are happier because the revenue pie is larger, the audience is larger and there is an incentive to attend live for those without Fox
February 21st 2012 @ 5:00am
nordster said | February 21st 2012 @ 5:00am | Report comment
on the one hand the game needs more revenue … agreed. Suggesting a game on free to air is all well and good, but it will actually lead to a reduction in revenue potentially. Unless a Clive type figure wants to make up a shortfall, or just go out and buy one of these networks and make a bid for the rights. Fox are holding the cards here, though long term having multiple broadcasters will help break that down.
his comments on the structure of the league … ie independence … are great in theory though it would leave a young competition in the hands of folks like Palmer. I have issues with that as a fan of the game given some of Clive’s comments, not just his personal like or dislike of it. But his general views on things like “foreigners” in the game for example. His views are rather simplistic and i’d rather have FFA there as a backstop than leave the A-League to the wolves at this early stage. I totally agree the league needs to be independent and run by the clubs as a medium term aim though.
February 21st 2012 @ 6:18am
The Special One said | February 21st 2012 @ 6:18am | Report comment
The biggest mistake of the A-league has been the fact they are trying to run it as professionally as the AFL/NRL, without the revenues to match it and its cost a lot of money to the private investors.
I’ve lost count the number of investors that have come and gone in the A-league which is not a good sign.
Much like Super Rugby though, the A-league is destined to stay on FOX and its going to need a substantial increase in revenue to remain a viable competition in the future.
February 21st 2012 @ 8:02am
Kasey said | February 21st 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
I don’t knowTSO, I see where you’re going, but I don’t agree 100%.
I think there’s a certain expectation amongst Australian fans that football ought to be a big-time sport and thus to a certain extent, I agree with the FFAs policy that appears to follow the old coache advice: “until you make the big leagues, there’s nothing wrong with at least looking big league. [of course the obvious constraint here is financial – and the FFA must be very careful not to spend itself into oblivion chasing an image rather than laying down concrete foundations for the future] but I have no concerns if the FFA goes about building the image of the game as a serious player at the table. I have concerns if the hierarchy is being paid exhorbitant sums and not delivering the results we demand. Darth Andrew at AFL gets paid squillions, but nobody can question the results he has delivered for that League, questions however abound about the effectiveness of Ben Buckley at FFAHQ. Questions that will only begin to be answered if he comes through in the upcoming negotiations regarding a new media deal.
February 21st 2012 @ 7:06am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Tony
you’re following Fozz’ lead and being far, far too easy on Clive – what he had to say last night was rubbish, none of it stands up to scrutiny, some of it barely made any logical sense, delivered with poor grammar and poor enunciation, and a smile at the end of each response to suggest: I’m stringing you blokes along, and there ain’t anything anyone can do about it because I’ve got the money.
If anyone has a word for word transcription of what he said, put it up, I promise you all that on re-reading it you will agree that it’s simply a bunch of incoherent, rambling thoughts about nothing very much at all.
February 21st 2012 @ 7:21am
Lucan said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:21am | Report comment
Incoherrent at times, yes, but there were still a few valid arguments put forth. Am sure the transcript would also provide this.
Not a fan of the character, or him being a pivotal player in a game he has no interest in (his justification of the “hopeless game” quote was a disaster), but to throw out his entire ramblings because 90% were rubbish also results in us throwing away the 10% that is worthwhile.
FFA need to rebuke any of the mistruths told. Silence will be telling.
February 21st 2012 @ 7:49am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
Lucan
it’s not hard to hit the target on 10% of occasions when you have the scatter gun approach he had.
Honestly, it seemed like he had been swatting up on soccer forums that day and was giving us a sample of the issues he had stumbled across, very few of them being connected in any way, and he feigned knowledge of the game – that’s the thing that struck me – surely Fozz would have noticed as well? Why didn’t Fozz take him to task in the same manner in which he took BB to task? He feigned knowledge of the game – he was publicly showing us that he in fact had very little knowledge of the game.
Now fair enough, as Clive said, he’s the one who has put in his $18 mill, not us, not the panel, not Lowy, etc, etc, to a certain extent that buys you some air time to espouse whatever’s on your mine – no matter how incoherent.
February 21st 2012 @ 9:26am
Realfootball said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Agree. And I think that the $18 million figure should be regarded with some skepticism.
February 21st 2012 @ 12:33pm
trent said | February 21st 2012 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
He feigned knowledge of the game – yes, but not very well. For instance, saying Melbourne ‘Hearts’ a couple of times and also wearing a Come Play scarf!
February 21st 2012 @ 12:45pm
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
trent
I agree – it was atrocious, that’s why I’m struggling to understand how he can possibly be getting support from some quarters.
February 21st 2012 @ 1:05pm
trent said | February 21st 2012 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
It was a barely sane rant and nothing more. Flinging a lot of junk in the hope that some will stick (and stink).
How many of his claims did he back up? For instance, did the FFAreally run Don Matheson out of Townsville and cause the break up of his marriage? Is Holger naming players based on who they know rather than how they play? (OK, today’s squad announcement might suggest this! But I doubt it very much). Why didn’t the panel probe him as they tried to with Buckley?
The most outrageous part of the interview was Fozzie suggesting that Clive could do great things if he ran the A-League! Fozzie lost any shred of crebility with me with that comment – not that he had much to begin with.
February 21st 2012 @ 1:24pm
Griffo said | February 21st 2012 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
@trent Flinging a lot of junk in the hope that some will stick (and stink).
I’m sure I heard early on Clive mention or hint that the FFA have an influence in the print media about articles and what they say and mis-quoting people…would have to see the footage again.
A real LOL moment…
February 21st 2012 @ 1:11pm
Axelv said | February 21st 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Agree fully.
Reading the GCU forums says it all, they don’t trust him in the slightest and they know he is lying, these are the people that his club was meant for…
February 21st 2012 @ 10:37pm
dasilva said | February 21st 2012 @ 10:37pm | Report comment
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/philip-micallef/blog/1094367/Palmer-rant-misses-the-point
At least one person at SBS is willing to take on Palmer.
Unfortunately he wasn’t at the interview that day.
I agree with you assessment. It seems like the way Foster was acting that Ben Buckley recently brought the game to disrepute recently and not clive palmer.
I have always been skeptical when people shout agendas at SBS but really that interviews was a transparent agenda more than anything else I’ve seen.
February 21st 2012 @ 7:44am
Lucan said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Palmer did plenty to contradict himself on his soapbox:
* “No foreginers” on one hand, while suggesting we copy the Premier League model on the other.
* He doesn’t like football, but is all of a sudden an expert on Olyroo selection.
* GCU are in for the long haul and he is commited to Youth, yet he hasn’t actually committed to the large majority of his squad with most player coming out of contract at the end of the season.
I think it is telling he is most all at sea when discussing actual football issues. Stick to the money side of things, Palmer, and bring in a football savvy GM to run the football component.
Oh, and WHY does he keep dropping this State of Origin suggestion? No one else wants this, football doesn’t needs this.
February 21st 2012 @ 7:52am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
Lucan
some of these same things struck me as well.
How could he possible look at the camera, hold hand on heart and say he is solely concerned about the welfare of his players when virtually all of them haye been left in limbo uncertain of where their next pay packet is coming next year?
Most of what he said was chock block full of inconsistencies.
February 21st 2012 @ 8:57am
Pete #205 said | February 21st 2012 @ 8:57am | Report comment
Surely you meant: hand on “hearts”. Clive kept saying it and he has lots of money, so it must be correct!
February 21st 2012 @ 9:35am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
heh, heh – that’s so true – he did say on at least two occasions!!
February 21st 2012 @ 7:55am
nordster said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
true, most of his points are very easily countered by people who know the game.
it does seem like he’s suddenly just started paying attention to football issues, and is coming up with the sort of solutions you’d expect of someone like that. Take ‘state of origin’. I mean really the A-League is effectively state/city/region vs state/city/region. Add in the fact that we have an international sphere, and pretty much a state rep comp is superfluous.
someone like Palmer is the exact reason why the league should not be run by the clubs at this point in time. Makes the league too susceptible to blow ins like Clive who think they have simple solutions, which turn out to be not so under closer scrutiny.
February 21st 2012 @ 9:03am
Pete #205 said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Both interviews on TWG last night were deplorable and I’m again dissapointed by Foz. The one question I thought would definitely be asked of Clive was how he could possibly be commited to anything, team-wise, if he is offering up one year deals for players. And how does he have a moral leg to stand on since he is potentially stuffing up players careers for good?
February 21st 2012 @ 9:15am
Lucan said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
When Foz kept talking and apologising to Basheer who was waiting, I expected Foster to have some serious hard questions that needed answering. In the end it was Basheer putting Palmer’s own quotes back at him, and looking unimpressed with the p!ssweak responses CP provided.
February 21st 2012 @ 9:25am
striker said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Yeah Pete they didnt ask the hard questions to Clive instead they grill Ben Buckley, the problem is the GCU they are not doing there part and FFA has every right to get rid of them especially with tv right coming up soon, this season the games have never been better most reams crowds are up 20-30 on last year as well as TV rating so all is not that bad in the A-League as clive suggests, he blames the FFA for his failure as his club is a joke.
February 21st 2012 @ 1:14pm
Axelv said | February 21st 2012 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
How funny was that, I found myself agreeing with Ben Buckley! LOL
February 21st 2012 @ 7:55am
jamesb said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
The one thing that concerned me is when Clive stated that the FFA have 5 officials (executives) earning 5 million.
I just heard Buckley on radio. The interviewer asked Buckley 3 times If what Clive said was true, and Buckleys response 3 times was “well i know what the FFA officials earn, I don’t know where Clive gets his figures from”. But Buckley didn’t completely deny it, which maybe theres an element of truth.
If Clive is right, than that’s alot of money been spent. I think Buckley earns more a million. Gallop I think earns around 750,000.
Nth Qld Fury could’ve done with some help.
February 21st 2012 @ 7:58am
nordster said | February 21st 2012 @ 7:58am | Report comment
see thing with salaries is they needed to offer more to get someone like Buckley to take a career risk to run football. So this is a factor as to why he may be on more than Gallop for example. Same for O’Neill when he was at FFA i’d expect. Whether any of these blokes are worth the money is another issue, but they are pretty much on the going rate you’d expect.
February 22nd 2012 @ 2:22am
Squizz said | February 22nd 2012 @ 2:22am | Report comment
The figures I have seen is $3.6 million between 9 senior executives of which I think Buckley gets $1.1 million. So the rest share $2.5million between 8.
The comparison to Gallop though is skewed. Gallop runs one competition the NRL. He has nothing to do with the ARL, the NSWRL, the QRL and the CRL. his job is closer to that of Lyall Gorman.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:23am
Griffo said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
If true then Palmer is not really comparing apples with apples then but that is how is wants it to come across.
Why the FFA doesn’t rebuke Palmer’s claim, even without outlining all the budget details, only adds weight to Palmer’s statement.
February 21st 2012 @ 8:03am
Midfielder said | February 21st 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Nice article Tony will come back latter … work is a pain today..
February 21st 2012 @ 8:07am
Lucan said | February 21st 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
I think Buckley is handcuffed in these live interviews by Palmer’s litigous nature.
Foster, on TWG, repeatedly asked him where the failing was. Now, I’m sure the FFA have an educated opinion on where this has fallen over but can’t afford to make such a comment without their legal advisors ticking off each and every word used to protect themselves from CP.
February 21st 2012 @ 8:25am
jamesb said | February 21st 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
ATM, Football is relying on wealthy owners (or w@nkers in Clives case) because as Tony has stated above, the tv deal that the FFA currently has in place is 120 million over 7 years, which is less than 18 million a season.
What are you going to do with less than 18 million a year. Not much. A 7 year deal, this must be the longest tv deal in history. Just seems to go on forever and ever.
Buckley will start negotiating a deal you would think once the NRL has done theirs, which would be later this year. Palmer humilating the sport has certainly harmed this.
All the more reason in which I was dissapointed with Basheer, Foster and Zdrillic. They were all soft towards Palmer.
February 21st 2012 @ 9:40am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
jamesb
once again, as I’ve said in the context of expansion to GC and Townsville, I say again in relation to the current TV deal – you have to go back to that point in time to understand what the reality was, to determine whether it was proper or not, and 7 years ago, Fox were the only ones showing interest, or at least showing interest with dollar signs behind it.
SBS wanted the FFA to pay them to show A-League games! so that’s how desperate things were.
We can quibble about whether 7 years is too long, but they probably thought they needed that assurance for that length of time to get established, they took the best deal they could find, it’s Frank Lowy and John O’Neil we’re talking about, they aren’t mugs.
Last night Palmer insinuated that it was some sort of back door deal, that it was something dodgey, which is a pretty ordinary accusation to make – it was the very best deal on the table at that time.
February 21st 2012 @ 11:25am
Brendo said | February 21st 2012 @ 11:25am | Report comment
I find it amazing how people think they can look back in hindsight and pick problems with a deal.
To people who think this was a bad deal I challenge you to go back to the announcement and show me where you highlighted the flaws in the deal back then. As cattery highlights above at the time this deal was seen as groundbreaking and turning point for our game.
Palmers swipe at the deal is laughable.
The problem is not the previous deal it was the best that could be done at the time, it is the next deal thats important. FFA needs to correct the issues with the current deal. There will be a balancing act between $$$ and exposure on FTA and I assume the bar will be set a lot higher for the FFA this time around.
February 21st 2012 @ 12:21pm
Lucan said | February 21st 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
I posted in a number of forums, and wrote to a couple of mags/newspapers at the time that I didn’t like the deal.
I didn’t like the HAL riding on the coat-tails of the in-demand Socceroo fixtures, effectively over inflating the value of the HAL’s TV deal.
I was also strongly against a 7 year term, as many were at the time.
Brendo, people being unhappy with the TV deal isn’t a new phenomena.
February 21st 2012 @ 1:43pm
Brendo said | February 21st 2012 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
LOL So you were complaining that the A-league was given too much money at the expense of grassroots/national team football. A fair enough criticism but hardly a complaint that the FFA didn’t achieve good price.
In terms of the length of time, it is unfair to take this in isolation. The FFA got the money they did by committing to a extended timframe. They would have not achieved the $18M a year if they hadn’t have given Foxtel this committment. Was it too long yes, but I still think it was the best deal they could get.
As I said above however ther bar now must be raised and FFA held to a higher criteria for this next deal. Socceroos must go to FTA, A-league can stay on Foxtel exclusively imo but will need to be priced accordingly. I still think a minimun $40M a year deal is achieveable (A-league, Socceroos, other National Teams & Internet Rights)
February 21st 2012 @ 11:27am
Roarchild said | February 21st 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
At the time of that 7 year deal SBS wanted it for free (actually they wanted the FFA to pay for production) and Fox were not showing all the games (just 1 or 2 a week) and there was only 4.
Now we get all 5 games live and pretty well done.
It’s turned out to be a couple of years too long with the benefit of hindsight.
February 21st 2012 @ 11:58am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 11:58am | Report comment
That’s the other thing worth noting – Fox do a fantastic job with both the game broadcasts and Fox FC.
Yes, 7 years probably now looks to long – but by the same token, Fox could argue it was every bit a risk for them as it was for the FFA, both parties were going into the deal from a virtual zero base.
February 21st 2012 @ 8:26am
agga78 said | February 21st 2012 @ 8:26am | Report comment
After what Clive said in the paper any comments made by him are worthless now, he is dead to the football community and should never be allowed with 200 metres of a football match again. Last night his rant showed how little he knows about football, calling into question socceroo and Olyroo selection.
The bigotted rant against foreigners helping football move forward in this country was bizzare as football is international and we are not the best at it and you need to learn from other countries to move forward with your own development.
Clive’s argues the other owners want more input into the league and less control from FFA, I would like too see these owners speak up now as the time is right too back up Clive Palmers comments on TWG, as no owners have said anything to back Clive it speaks more about what Clive is, then how FFA run the A league.
February 21st 2012 @ 8:41am
Lucan said | February 21st 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
He’s got a ticket that allows him into football matches until 2014. Unfortunate, but undeniable.
February 21st 2012 @ 9:51am
Clayts said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
I thought he kind of had a point about the Olyroos selection process. The FFA seem to make it up as they go along, changing the rule at the last minute to make only 3 players from each club available. Sure it may have helped A-League clubs, but it certainly wasn’t the way to choose the best squad was it? I also agree with him. How James Brown wasn’t picked is beyond me having watched every game (just about) of A league this season (i love FOX)
I reckon he is entitled to be angry if it is his money he is putting on the table. We would all be if it was our money. I don’t think any of us actually know enough about the inner workings of the FFA. That is what I got out of both interviews last night. CP has a point about the sneaky backroom deals and corruption that is plainly evident within the FFA also. Yes he came across as a blubbering rich dude, but I thought he actually made some valid points. Perhaps he was saying what a lot of people have thought over the years but didn’t have the backing to say publicly.
At least his comments may force some action from the FFA and direct them to some of the issues that are affecting the running of the game. I’m sure CP is not alone in his views.
February 21st 2012 @ 11:04am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Clayts
1. As if he honestly cares about Olyroo selection; and
2. what does that have to do with him running the club into the ground and going out of his way to embarass the FFA?
February 21st 2012 @ 12:24pm
Titus said | February 21st 2012 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
He did kind of, I mean has Jason Hoffman even being getting gametime at Heart?
Start picking players on form and players who are playing regularly.
Brown should definitely got a look in.
February 21st 2012 @ 3:18pm
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Titus
it’s an absolute smoke screen – what does Olyroo selection have to do with someone running down GCU to nothing – only one person has managed to do that
February 21st 2012 @ 10:28pm
dasilva said | February 21st 2012 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
I think there is a FIFA rule that if a club has to lose 3 players to international duty and they request postponement of their club fixture then FFA must postpone the match to avoid clashes with international fixture.
This would have brought chaos to the A-league and their dealings with Foxsport, if any club goes through with that threat.
So therefore there was agreement of maximum of 3 players per club and the clubs voluntarily agreed not to force postponement of fixtures even though they are entitled to with 3 players on international duty.
I have a feeling that one of the a-league clubs threaten to do that which force FFA to compromise with the max 3 player limit.
February 21st 2012 @ 9:43am
The Cattery said | February 21st 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
agga
agree with everything you have said, but Lucan is right that he appears to hold the number one membership ticket for GCU for the time being – why he wants to hold on to it – that is the question we are all dieing to find out.